ALL@SEA

Wrong time to buy a boat?

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Well I've been looking at getting a bigger, more offshore orientated boat for a while, and a sailing mate and I just put a deposit on a 30' sportboat... and then the world went crazy. No doubt prices are going to crash like they did in the GFC, but I wonder, will they bounce back when (if?) the virus is controlled? Really, second hand boats have been great value post GFC - can they really go (and stay) much lower?

I suspect I've just bought (or am about to buy) just before the arse falls out of the market... though I'm not too concerned, she seems to be a well built, well maintained, well equipped boat that suits our needs, and will be a 10ish year plan. 

What do you oracles think?

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51 minutes ago, ALL@SEA said:

Well I've been looking at getting a bigger, more offshore orientated boat for a while, and a sailing mate and I just put a deposit on  a sportboat... and then the world went crazy. No doubt prices are going to crash like they did in the GFC, but I wonder, will they bounce back when (if?) the virus is controlled? Really, second hand boats have been great value post GFC - can they really go (and stay) much lower?

I suspect I've just bought (or am about to buy) just before the arse falls out of the market... though I'm not too concerned, she seems to be a well built, well maintained, well equipped boat that suits our needs, and will be a 10ish year plan. 

What do you oracles think?

How much is the boat? How big is the deposit?
If deposit is a small % I would walk away.

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51 minutes ago, ALL@SEA said:

Well I've been looking at getting a bigger, more offshore orientated boat for a while, and a sailing mate and I just put a deposit on  a sportboat... and then the world went crazy. No doubt prices are going to crash like they did in the GFC, but I wonder, will they bounce back when (if?) the virus is controlled? Really, second hand boats have been great value post GFC - can they really go (and stay) much lower?

I suspect I've just bought (or am about to buy) just before the arse falls out of the market... though I'm not too concerned, she seems to be a well built, well maintained, well equipped boat that suits our needs, and will be a 10ish year plan. 

What do you oracles think?

Go back and renegotiate.  Take your best guess of what the hit will be to the average used boat, apply it to your purchase, and see how the Seller wants to handle it.

If they won't deal, walk and wait.  There is no conceivable way the market in July will be anywhere near what it was last month.  In my opinion, of course.

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Just now, stayoutofthemiddle said:

How much is the boat? How big is the deposit?
If deposit is a small % I would walk away.

10% deposit, boat is a touch under $40k (subject to survey and rig check) ... I know the opposite is probably true, but it feels like a smaller financial risk going halves.

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I have only one client who has closed on a purchase in the past two weeks. He used data from the 2008-2009 market drop in his area (-54%), applied it to the market price as of February, and reduced his offer by that amount, sharing his methodology with the seller.  The seller countered basically splitting the magnitude of the loss and eating the brokerage fee, which dropped the overall price of the property by around 30%.  Both parties were quite happy post-closing.

YMMV

 

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25 minutes ago, ALL@SEA said:

10% deposit, boat is a touch under $40k (subject to survey and rig check) ... I know the opposite is probably true, but it feels like a smaller financial risk going halves.

I would just go back in negotiate $5K off current price as Clean suggested.

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Just now, stayoutofthemiddle said:

I would just go back in negotiate $5K off current price as Clean suggested.

I'd say go for 15k off and see what happens, but I'm pretty aggressive.

The only way to lose is to stay in the current deal.  The only way you'd do that is if you really, really want the boat and the seller won't budge, or you do not believe you can pick up the same boat for significantly less than $36k in a few months.  The client above really, really needed that property for a 10-year+ play, so he was willing to risk the parcel being worth a lot less for a while.  

Also check for a force majeure clause in your purchase agreement.

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Absolutely - the market has changed No reason why you should not renegotiate 

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4 minutes ago, MR.CLEAN said:

I'd say go for 15k off and see what happens, but I'm pretty aggressive.

The only way to lose is to stay in the current deal.  The only way you'd do that is if you really, really want the boat and the seller won't budge, or you do not believe you can pick up the same boat for significantly less than $36k in a few months.  The client above really, really needed that property for a 10-year+ play, so he was willing to risk the parcel being worth a lot less for a while.  

Also check for a force majeure clause in your purchase agreement.

10K max or it would be insulting. That's a 25% haircut.

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6 minutes ago, stayoutofthemiddle said:

In other news, balsy putting boat type out on on SA. 

Good point, and probably not well thought out by me (ballsy wasn't what I was going for) - getting toward the end of nightshift.

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5 minutes ago, stayoutofthemiddle said:

 

10K max or it would be insulting. That's a 25% haircut.

don't do business with someone who will be insulted by a business proposal.  I suggest the boat market will easily lose 50% this year.

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1 minute ago, ALL@SEA said:

Good point, and probably not well thought out by me (ballsy wasn't what I was going for) - getting toward the end of nightshift.

I edited it for you.

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Just now, MR.CLEAN said:

don't do business with someone who will be insulted by a business proposal.  I suggest the boat market will easily lose 50% this year.

It's not a proposal, it's a renegotiation. Big difference. 

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Just now, stayoutofthemiddle said:

It's not a proposal, it's a renegotiation. Big difference. 

No, it's a proposed amendment to an agreement where the circumstances have materially changed.    Still just business.  

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Clean has it right.  It’s business- used boat market is about to tank as this thing winds it’s way thru Economy 

 

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13 minutes ago, Lucky Dog said:

Clean has it right.  It’s business

People who take negotiation tactics personally are always at a high risk of getting the short end of the stick. Brokers who encourage that shit are not good brokers.

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1 hour ago, MR.CLEAN said:

I have only one client who has closed on a purchase in the past two weeks. He used data from the 2008-2009 market drop in his area (-54%), applied it to the market price as of February, and reduced his offer by that amount, sharing his methodology with the seller.  The seller countered basically splitting the magnitude of the loss and eating the brokerage fee, which dropped the overall price of the property by around 30%.  Both parties were quite happy post-closing.

YMMV

 

So what did you do with your new house down payment last week?

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Just now, Cristoforo said:

So what did you do with your new house down payment last week?

Sitting on it waiting for another trump press conference. How about you?

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2 minutes ago, MR.CLEAN said:

Sitting on it waiting for another trump press conference. How about you?

You'll have to watch Fox.  I hear on CNN he is canceling press conferences now and tonight will be a Fox interview instead.

 

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2 hours ago, ALL@SEA said:

10% deposit, boat is a touch under $40k (subject to survey and rig check) ... I know the opposite is probably true, but it feels like a smaller financial risk going halves.

Since you still (?) have the survey contingency (maybe sea trial), it is pretty easy to back out and/or renegotiate without risking your deposit.  Might cost you the cost of the survey if seller balks.

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14 minutes ago, Cristoforo said:

You'll have to watch Fox.  I hear on CNN he is canceling press conferences now and tonight will be a Fox interview instead.

 

He's heading for the bunker, is he? Pretty soon it will just be specials on OAN.

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6 minutes ago, Ishmael said:

He's heading for the bunker, is he? Pretty soon it will just be specials on OAN.

Yes the state run network. This is what the talking head on CNN just said. But I don't see it anywhere else yet.
Dr Fauci is wearing cement shoes by now 

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24 minutes ago, Cristoforo said:

You'll have to watch Fox.  I hear on CNN he is canceling press conferences now and tonight will be a Fox interview instead.

 

good, maybe he won't kill any koi enthusiasts today.

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I know one thing, it sure as fuck is the wrong time to sell, at least for me. Gonna lower A4 to 30k...

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Just now, Editor said:

I know one thing, it sure as fuck is the wrong time to sell, at least for me. Gonna lower A4 to 30k...

unless you are selling TP, hand sanitizer, ventilators, PPE, or chloroquine it's the wrong time for everybody to sell

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Trump has all the task force on FOX doing a town hall now.  i guess that is in place of  the nightly presser

 

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2 hours ago, MR.CLEAN said:

I have only one client who has closed on a purchase in the past two weeks. He used data from the 2008-2009 market drop in his area (-54%), applied it to the market price as of February, and reduced his offer by that amount, sharing his methodology with the seller.  The seller countered basically splitting the magnitude of the loss and eating the brokerage fee, which dropped the overall price of the property by around 30%.  Both parties were quite happy post-closing.

YMMV

 

Given that there is a good chance the buyer won't be able to go sailing this year AND that we're only nibbling at the feet of what's going to happen (look at that monster of a curve...): good deal. For the seller. Wait what's going to happen to housing.   

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Agree.  Just got off the phone with smart guy in loan biz.  He is very excited as companies like his are going to be doling out a bunch of that sweet sweet stimulus.  But he is still very scared of the possibility that the red states' actions mean the effects of the stimulus is going to be gone in a few months but the problems will not.

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1 hour ago, Editor said:

I know one thing, it sure as fuck is the wrong time to sell, at least for me. Gonna lower A4 to 30k...

Why not just store it on the trailer until next season? Serious racers will be itching to get out on the water by this time next year. Or just keep it - you have new sails, a fast ride. Wait a bit and see what better options show up?

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1 hour ago, jamhass said:

Since you still (?) have the survey contingency (maybe sea trial), it is pretty easy to back out and/or renegotiate without risking your deposit.  Might cost you the cost of the survey if seller balks.

I believe you would only lose the deposit if the offer was unconditional.  I always include at least one '"subject to" in an offer - usually survey. 

Even then there is no obligation to pay for a survey -  just don't remove that subject to and walk away.  A deals not a deal until all "subject tos" are removed

May harm any future dealings with that owner and/or broker.  But that is a different discussion.

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3 minutes ago, 12 metre said:

I believe you would only lose the deposit if the offer was unconditional.  I always include at least one '"subject to" in an offer - usually survey. 

Even then there is no obligation to pay for a survey -  just don't remove that subject to and walk away. 

Depends very much on the words of the purchase agreement.  most PAs require you to complete the survey in good faith and it must be attested by the surveyor.  that being said, it should be pretty easy for a good buyer's surveyor to find some major issues in any old race boat.

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9 minutes ago, MR.CLEAN said:

 

Depends very much on the words of the purchase agreement.  most PAs require you to complete the survey in good faith and it must be attested by the surveyor.  that being said, it should be pretty easy for a good buyer's surveyor to find some major issues in any old race boat.

Yeah, I should have said that in the case of brokered deals.  Most of my boat purchases have been through private deals though and simply saying "offer subject to survey" gives an easy escape clause, and there is usually no deposit involved either in that type of deal - or at least that is my experience.

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1 hour ago, MR.CLEAN said:

 

Depends very much on the words of the purchase agreement.  most PAs require you to complete the survey in good faith and it must be attested by the surveyor.  that being said, it should be pretty easy for a good buyer's surveyor to find some major issues in any old race boat.

Not true.  Almost all standard sales contracts have wording added  where a specific period of the time after the survey is allowed to reject  or accept the boat, or ask for adjustment,  and no reason, zero,  needs to be given by the  buyer. In fact most contract forms have that provision in it you don’t even have to add it.  You just fill in a date timeline a few days after time to review the survey. 

If your wife doesn’t like the toilet you can reject it. 

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19 minutes ago, Cristoforo said:

 all standard sales contracts

we don't use them.  

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1 minute ago, MR.CLEAN said:

 

we don't use them.  

Well that’s pretty stupid. 

 

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25 minutes ago, Cristoforo said:

Not true.  Almost all standard sales contracts have wording added  where a specific period of the time after the survey is allowed to reject  or accept the boat, or ask for adjustment,  and no reason, zero,  needs to be given by the  buyer.

be careful if you use this type of contract.  If indeed it has a provision allowing the buyer to reject the sale for no reason and there is no deposit, it is likely an illusory contract, voidable by one or both parties.

Those interested in learning: https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/illusory_promise

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1 minute ago, Cristoforo said:

Well that’s pretty stupid. 

 

My michigan firm believes the opposite.  We do not allow any of our clients to use off the shelf agreements.  We don't do many boat sales a year but they are all >1M and would never consider a form contract.  

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13 minutes ago, MR.CLEAN said:

My michigan firm believes the opposite.  We do not allow any of our clients to use off the shelf agreements.  We don't do many boat sales a year but they are all >1M and would never consider a form contract.  

That’s unfortunate. But I guess it’s good for lawyers  having to spend more money to have a lawyer wade through a one off hillbilly law office contract. Maybe that’s why your law firm doesn’t do many yacht closings  

The vast majority are boilerplate with amendable and additional  sections, industry standard and approved for decades.  Even you must know that. 

Many buyers of large yachts and ships would walk away from a seller demanding a unique contract. Especially foreign buyers.  Which form is used is often stated in the initial offer and a point of negotiation. Usually it’s never a problem. . You must know that. 

Please don’t spread bad legal info. 

Now if you are buying a FT10 or a dinghy for relatively little money, sure all bets are off do what you want. 

Anyone spending $30-40,000 like the OP should run it through a broker with a standard sales contract. There are Major first class yacht brokers that will run a deal you bring them through for you  for 2pct and doesn’t cost the buyer anything and he gets protected. 

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3 minutes ago, Cristoforo said:

 hillbilly law office 

lol

 

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2 minutes ago, MR.CLEAN said:

lol

 

Ok I admit that was a bit gratuitous im willing to retract it. 

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no i like it.  i have a client that will get a kick out of that comment. 

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Lots to chew over there. The survey is booked for tomorrow. 

I Think we'd negotiated a reasonable price, she passed the test sail with flying colours, and then this C-19 shit really started.

She's a rare boat that fits our bill for shorthanded offshore stuff... ticks nearly all the boxes, has all the equipment, and has been owned and well prepared by a owned by a knowledgeable, caring owner. I've been looking a long time, and she comes closer than anything else I've seen - unfortunately I'm not after a common production cruiser/racer, otherwise I'd be taking the advice to step back.

I think half the question is will prices stay low when things improve. I can hold onto my boat before I sell for a while, but don't really want a larger fleet! This boat is part of probably a 10 year plan, and IF prices bounce a bit once (if) things return to normality, I don't think (hope) we won't lose significantly more than depreciation... though I guess no one knows where this is headed.

Thanks all for your advice - I can't say I wasn't warned if things go pearshaped. I'll keep you posted.

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Good luck!  Tough call on whether to move forward.  I just bought a boat about a month ago.  Right now, I don’t have any regrets but that could change if we fall into a deep recession that impacts my income dramatically.  Right now my business looks steady (we are considered essential and have a healthy backlog), but we lag about 18 months behind major fallout events.  This boat is also part of a 10 year plan so as long as I can pay the upkeep, I don’t see a dramatic difference in resale way down the line.  Maybe I am being optimistic, but I think the gloom and doom is being a bit overplayed.  

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good luck and good attitude.  Advice: once you close on this boat, don't look at any classifieds for a couple years.

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23 minutes ago, MR.CLEAN said:

 Advice: once you close on this boat, don't look at any classifieds for a couple years.

Thanks again. It's an addiction I'll never break - despite this I never once regretted buying my current boat in the 4 or so years I've had her - and may well regret selling her (even if someone wants to buy her)!

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It would be interesting if anyone can be bothered to monitor how prices asked for their favorite boat change over the next few months, I know I will be watching occasionally. I bought a Pacific Seacraft 34 for half the typical asking price in the US. Problem: it is in Panama and I had to get out of there last week before they closed the airport on Sunday. No idea when I will get back to it. Meanwhile I sold my local boat the day before I left for Panama two weeks ago, so now I have nothing to sail here. But my lake is closed anyway, so not yet a big deal.

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20 hours ago, Cristoforo said:

Not true.  Almost all standard sales contracts have wording added  where a specific period of the time after the survey is allowed to reject  or accept the boat, or ask for adjustment,  and no reason, zero,  needs to be given by the  buyer. In fact most contract forms have that provision in it you don’t even have to add it.  You just fill in a date timeline a few days after time to review the survey. 

If your wife doesn’t like the toilet you can reject it. 

Remember, Clean has never purchased a big boat. 

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Not personally.  I just negotiate the contracts, draft the documents, clear security interests, and review due diligence.  I worked on a couple of treasure cases too.  You'd be amazed at what an amphora goes for.

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32 minutes ago, MR.CLEAN said:

Not personally.  I just negotiate the contracts, draft the documents, clear security interests, and review due diligence.  I worked on a couple of treasure cases too.  You'd be amazed at what an amphora goes for.

So what you are saying is that a big-boat owner wanted to to buy a boat and instead of negotiating the price with the seller's broker he called you and asked you to have that conversation on his behalf instead?

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you like to assume facts not in evidence.  where did i say anything about price?

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32 minutes ago, MR.CLEAN said:

you like to assume facts not in evidence.  where did i say anything about price?

You are on this thread offering advice about price negotiation and backing is up with examples of your experience "I just negotiate the contracts, draft the documents, clear security interests, and review due diligence.  I worked on a couple of treasure cases too.  You'd be amazed at what an amphora goes for."

If you weren't talking about price in your "negotiation experience" then why are you offering it here? I've never negotiated a contract were price wasn't part of the discussion. Delivering a boat for a new owner and asking the boat captain if he can throw in an old jib from the race trailer to use for Wednesday nights isn't exactly the negotiation experience that was being requested above! You were so quick to criticize negotiation tactics above but have no real experience yourself. Just represent your experience accurately, no one is impressed when you embellish. 

 
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Back to if it's a good time to buy a boat or not-

I like Clean's description of the '2008 proration,' the concept of offering 54% less in anticipation of deep recession pricing to come. I would think that some sellers, particularly those who have had boats on the market for awhile, would be motivated to at least counteroffer on any offer made now.

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1 hour ago, stayoutofthemiddle said:

I've never negotiated a contract were price wasn't part of the discussion.

Clearly not.  

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Are people actually going out looking at boats?

I've noticed that 2 to 5 new listings per day are appearing on local CL. Also many listings in the Boat Parts classification .

Is anybody really stupid enough to go out for that?

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47 minutes ago, SloopJonB said:

Are people actually going out looking at boats?

I've noticed that 2 to 5 new listings per day are appearing on local CL. Also many listings in the Boat Parts classification .

Is anybody really stupid enough to go out for that?

Indeed.

Pretty much every government in the world has either imposed a lockdown on its citizens or pleaded with them, in the strongest terms, to voluntarily remain at home and restrict outings to the bare minimum. Only sociopaths ignore the current situation and go around actively shopping for non-essentials at this time of public emergency.

I love boats, but ...

Seriously.png

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On 3/25/2020 at 1:10 PM, Israel Hands said:

Back to if it's a good time to buy a boat or not-

I like Clean's description of the '2008 proration,' the concept of offering 54% less in anticipation of deep recession pricing to come. I would think that some sellers, particularly those who have had boats on the market for awhile, would be motivated to at least counteroffer on any offer made now.

For race boats perhaps as they are really egotistic toys. A good cruiser or cruiser/racer has value. Might be down a bit, but we'll see a but a 50% date rape? Methinks not. 08' and 1982 were completely different. Now you got people looking at their retirement years boat and some deals to be had. The Canadain market doesn't have a lot of inventory has a lot of it was sucked up with the low Canadian dollar. Cheap like borscht for an American buyer. And - ya, ya, the border is virtually closed except essentials for trade. A lot of self-isolation and fear too. But not forever either. It should be high time so I think a lot of people are just waiting this out.

And the regards to getting a lawyer involved it's a bit silly. "Most" of brokers are members are in broker associations. The paperwork has been legally vetted long ago and update them as needed. Associations like CYBA, FYBA, etc have to go with state laws anyway. Nervous about that? There are Title companies that do that sort of thing easily and bonded, Yes, you pay for there services but it's a drop in the bucket for that do.      

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people want cash right now, seller is probably very eager to get rid of that boat. You should renegotiate. 

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3 hours ago, Maxx Baqustae said:

For race boats perhaps as they are really egotistic toys. A good cruiser or cruiser/racer has value. Might be down a bit, but we'll see a but a 50% date rape? Methinks not. 08' and 1982 were completely different. Now you got people looking at their retirement years boat and some deals to be had. The Canadain market doesn't have a lot of inventory has a lot of it was sucked up with the low Canadian dollar. Cheap like borscht for an American buyer. And - ya, ya, the border is virtually closed except essentials for trade. A lot of self-isolation and fear too. But not forever either. It should be high time so I think a lot of people are just waiting this out.

And the regards to getting a lawyer involved it's a bit silly. "Most" of brokers are members are in broker associations. The paperwork has been legally vetted long ago and update them as needed. Associations like CYBA, FYBA, etc have to go with state laws anyway. Nervous about that? There are Title companies that do that sort of thing easily and bonded, Yes, you pay for there services but it's a drop in the bucket for that do.      

Exactly.  I’ve bought plenty of expensive boats. Never thought I’d have to engage a lawyer to read a contract for me. Believe it or not  there are plenty of good brokers still out there to guide and handle this process   

yacht owning  professionals haven’t all lost their jobs and are now forced to sell. Bartenders and waiters have. The tanks are not rolling through the  streets yet. Yes there will be good deals on the lower end but if you find something that you really like and fits I wouldn’t pass it up over a potential 5-10 pct gain by trying to time the pre owned yacht asset value curve.  Purchasing is not the expensive part of boat  ownership. 

Whatever you do get advice from experienced people who have done it, not sailing forum hacks  

 

 

 

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On 3/25/2020 at 4:10 PM, Israel Hands said:

Back to if it's a good time to buy a boat or not-

I like Clean's description of the '2008 proration,' the concept of offering 54% less in anticipation of deep recession pricing to come. I would think that some sellers, particularly those who have had boats on the market for awhile, would be motivated to at least counteroffer on any offer made now.

Sure there is no harm in trying. All they can do is say fuck off  

But There are fundamental differences between 2008 and what is happening now.  Anyone who is drawing a close correlation with them doesn’t know what they are talking about. 

But on the other hand there is a Hallberg Rassy in New Zealand you can probably get for 54 pct of asking price. 

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14 minutes ago, Cristoforo said:

Sure there is no harm in trying. All they can do is say fuck off  

But There are fundamental differences between 2008 and what is happening now.  Anyone who is drawing a close correlation with them doesn’t know what they are talking about. 

But on the other hand there is a Hallberg Rassy in New Zealand you can probably get for 54 pct of asking price. 

Ooh that’s cold!

Sure, there are fundamental differences, but to a lot of people this looks worse than 2008. And to anyone who has an offshore cruiser and is getting too old to enjoy it, they probably perceive that a bird in the hand...

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I need to heed my own advice years ago. The best way to buy the boat you want is to walk the docks and pick the idle boat you want, and find the owner. 9 sailboats out of 10 are hardly used and are financial anchors to their owners.

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2 minutes ago, Israel Hands said:

I need to heed my own advice years ago. The best way to buy the boat you want is to walk the docks and pick the idle boat you want, and find the owner. 9 sailboats out of 10 are hardly used and are financial anchors to their owners.

Agree.  But that’s always been the case. 

 

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12 minutes ago, Israel Hands said:

Ooh that’s cold!

Sure, there are fundamental differences, but to a lot of people this looks worse than 2008. And to anyone who has an offshore cruiser and is getting too old to enjoy it, they probably perceive that a bird in the hand...

Agree.  And that’s always been the case. 

Tell me how a voluntary shutdown is similar to collateralized mortgage crisis of 2008?  Has Wells Fargo been up to their old tricks? Have you seen a Lehman’s Brother failure? JP Morgan? 

you  wont  what you will see is a closed restaurant and hotel for 6-8 weeks and some cash flow bankruptcies   

Sure we have unsettling volatility but if you are not planning on selling out in the next 12-18 mos there is zero reason to panic  

I will buy  exxon stock all day long at $30

The tanks are not yet in the streets  

 

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1 hour ago, Cristoforo said:

Exactly.  I’ve bought plenty of expensive boats. Never thought I’d have to engage a lawyer to read a contract for me. Believe it or not  there are plenty of good brokers still out there to guide and handle this process   

 

 

Name the last boat over a million dollars that you bought.  Aaaand....go.

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15 hours ago, Cristoforo said:

Agree.  And that’s always been the case. 

Tell me how a voluntary shutdown is similar to collateralized mortgage crisis of 2008?  Has Wells Fargo been up to their old tricks? Have you seen a Lehman’s Brother failure? JP Morgan? 

you  wont  what you will see is a closed restaurant and hotel for 6-8 weeks and some cash flow bankruptcies   

Sure we have unsettling volatility but if you are not planning on selling out in the next 12-18 mos there is zero reason to panic  

I will buy  exxon stock all day long at $30

The tanks are not yet in the streets  

 

You are more optimistic than me. We were due a recession, and only Trump's scrambling during an election year has kept it pumped up.  This will at least bring a recession - no way we are going back to la la land stock market - and that will motivate some to sell lower in order to cash out.

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15 hours ago, MR.CLEAN said:

Name the last boat over a million dollars that you bought.  Aaaand....go.

I think a couple of mine are worth a million

 

 

 

 

lira

 

 

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On 3/26/2020 at 7:27 PM, SloopJonB said:

Are people actually going out looking at boats?

I've noticed that 2 to 5 new listings per day are appearing on local CL. Also many listings in the Boat Parts classification .

Is anybody really stupid enough to go out for that?

I'm delaying looking at a boat up in Comox.   I bailed on a deal I was working on for a cruising boat - turned out on survey to have the pox and the owner wouldn't adjust the price enough to compensate.  In a way the owner did me a favour - the boat was priced for the pre-virus market.  I think the post-virus market may be significantly lower.

I'm watching the market closely - no evidence so far of price drops for the boats I'm looking for.  There might be a screaming deal coming up my club due to a member passing away and leaving his widow with a boat to get rid of.  Boat has in-mast furling main though which is kind of a show-stopper.  I like to be able to sail upwind.

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23 minutes ago, Rain Man said:

 

I'm watching the market closely - no evidence so far of price drops for the boats I'm looking for.  

No one is coming to look at them.  If you hear about anyone closing a deal (other than the OP), please post it.

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2 hours ago, Rain Man said:

I'm delaying looking at a boat up in Comox.   I bailed on a deal I was working on for a cruising boat - turned out on survey to have the pox and the owner wouldn't adjust the price enough to compensate.  In a way the owner did me a favour - the boat was priced for the pre-virus market.  I think the post-virus market may be significantly lower.

I'm watching the market closely - no evidence so far of price drops for the boats I'm looking for.  There might be a screaming deal coming up my club due to a member passing away and leaving his widow with a boat to get rid of.  Boat has in-mast furling main though which is kind of a show-stopper.  I like to be able to sail upwind.

You might find a distressed seller who's willing to take a substantial haircut on their asking price.

But watching the used boat market at this point is kind of useless.  The market as a whole is not going to  be reducing asking prices anytime soon IMO.  Depending on how things shake out from all this it could be several months to several years.  After 2008 at least locally it took several years for the market to bottom out. 

I was looking at a Davidson 29 in Seattle that had reduced the asking price to $32k just as the 2008 financial crisis was settling in.  I went home ready to make an offer the following day when the CAD fell $.03 vs USD.  Figured I would wait a couple of days for the CAD to bounce back, but it continued to fall ending up $0.10 less.  By the time the CAD had reached pre-crisis levels, the boat had sold.  Anyways in late 2014, a sistership with much better sail inventory went on the market at USD 22k and I heard was bought for around USD18k.  Unfortunately I think I had bought the Dash by then.  Would have greatly preferred the D29.

Besides estate sales and people who are tired of the boat ownership anchor (both of which exist even in normal markets), I suspect it is Mr. Leveraged Stock Portfolio who may be hurting the most.  Even if they don`t want to sell may either have to come up with quick cash or be forced to sell off some of their portfolio (or other financial assets) to meet a margin call.

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If it’s the Bull well done ! Rare beast indeed 

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I felt like I just about gave away my boat when I sold it a couple months ago... with 20 20 hindsight, I probably did pretty good... hate to think what I'd get for it now

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7 minutes ago, marcus brutus said:

BUMP !

Does anyone know of recent sailboat sales that closed and the prices?

Someone in the broker thread wrote that he has 'just' sold his cruising boat, but no details.

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There were rumours down here that two boats sold for 50% of asking price just before lockdown last week 

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On 3/31/2020 at 2:31 PM, marcus brutus said:

BUMP !

Does anyone know of recent sailboat sales that closed and the prices?

How about it?

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2 minutes ago, marcus brutus said:

How about it?

I think you have your answer.

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so will boat prices drop ,will cash be king 

This next year a good time to buy cruiser say 40' tri/cat <125k,  40+ mono pay the back yard bill?

who know's wives might be saying sell to get it off our hands?

Or might go the other way , people using their yachts to live on , think I'll name mine "Escape Pod"         

anyone have good sites for bank repro's?

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It's kind of a bummer 'cause I'm in the market and now I can't justify not waiting. But there are a few more-than-usual CL ads that have an air, if not price, of desperation. 

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3 minutes ago, DustyDreamer said:

It's kind of a bummer 'cause I'm in the market and now I can't justify not waiting. But there are a few more-than-usual CL ads that have an air, if not price, of desperation. 

Pent-up demand for sellers desperate to liquidate means that the best deals will probably be right after each area opens up to limited contact. Once the truly desperate are out, prices will likely depend entirely on unemployment, the stock market, and how quickly the country opens back up for business.

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On the other hand... it might be a good time to ask really silly money for a remote country estate with a big greenhouse... -_-

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My business partner on the west coast just got a deposit for 2500/month for a three month lease for his house that meets your description.  He tried to rent it last fall for 1600 without a bite.  Crazy times.

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53 minutes ago, MR.CLEAN said:

Pent-up demand for sellers desperate to liquidate means that the best deals will probably be right after each area opens up to limited contact. Once the truly desperate are out, prices will likely depend entirely on unemployment, the stock market, and how quickly the country opens back up for business.

I figured the same thing but wasn't sure. I also felt it was logical that by the time boats are being sold because of the economy there'd be a good chance they'd have sat unused for a long time. 

16 minutes ago, toddster said:

On the other hand... it might be a good time to ask really silly money for a remote country estate with a big greenhouse... 

 I'm open to trades :)

Quote

My business partner on the west coast just got a deposit for 2500/month for a three month lease for his house that meets your description.  He tried to rent it last fall for 1600 without a bite.  Crazy times.

Hmmm....

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Yeah, I had planned to explore renting it this year. Except that I can't sail away to anywhere at the moment.

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8 hours ago, marcus brutus said:

How about it?

I know of one deal that just closed in SD.

That said, having recently got back from Mexico racing my surveying business is null. Most boat yards are closed or at minimal staffing. 

What is the broker thread that was referenced earlier?

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you cant even go out and buy an eat-in fucking pizza right now.   no shit boats aren't being sold. 
Pizza prices have not changed much 

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20 minutes ago, Hitchhiker said:

I know of one deal that just closed in SD.

That said, having recently got back from Mexico racing my surveying business is null. Most boat yards are closed or at minimal staffing. 

What is the broker thread that was referenced earlier?

It was the Halberg rassy down in NZ      https://www.36degrees.nz/yacht-boat-sales-auckland-new-zealand/boat/hallberg-rassy-53

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