Jules

77 Degrees and Other Facts

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This morning I received an email from a friend.  She's a retired ER nurse and she passed along information she received from Johns Hopkins.  In it was noted this:

* HEAT melts fat; this is why it is so good to use water above 77 degrees Fahrenheit for washing hands, clothes and everything. 

Here's the entirety of that email:

* The virus is not a living organism, but a protein molecule (DNA) covered by a protective layer of lipid (fat), which, when absorbed by the cells of the ocular, nasal or buccal mucosa, changes their genetic code (mutation) and convert them into aggressors and multiplier cells.
* Since the virus is not a living organism but a protein molecule, it is not killed but decays on its own. The disintegration time depends on the temperature, humidity and type of material where it lies.
* The virus is very fragile.  The only thing that protects it is a thin outer layer of fat. That is why any soap or detergent is the best remedy because the foam CUTS the FAT (that is why you have to rub so much: for 20 seconds or more, to make a lot of foam).
By dissolving the fat layer, the protein molecule disperses and breaks down on its own.
* HEAT melts fat; this is why it is so good to use water above 77 degrees Fahrenheit for washing hands, clothes and everything. In addition, hot water makes more foam and that makes it even more useful.
* Alcohol or any mixture with alcohol over 65% DISSOLVES ANY FAT, especially the external lipid layer of the virus.
* Any mix with 1 part bleach and 5 parts water directly dissolves the protein, breaking it down from the inside.
* Oxygenated water helps long after soap, alcohol and chlorine, because peroxide dissolves the virus protein, but you have to use it pure and it hurts your skin.
* NO BACTERICIDE OR ANTIBIOTIC SERVES. The virus is not a living organism like bacteria; antibodies cannot kill what is not alive.
* NEVER shake used or unused clothing, sheets or cloth. While it is glued to a porous surface, it is very inert and disintegrates only:
-up to 3 hours (fabric and porous),
-4 hours (copper and wood)
-24 hours (cardboard),
- 42 hours (metal) and
-72 hours (plastic).
But if you shake it or use a feather duster, the virus molecules float in the air for up to 3 hours, and can lodge in your nose.
* The virus molecules remain very stable in external cold, or in artificially conditioned such as from air conditioners in houses and cars.
* The virus also needs moisture to stay stable, and especially darkness. Therefore, dehumidified, dry, warm and bright environments will degrade it faster.
* UV LIGHT on any object that may contain it breaks down the virus protein. For example, to disinfect and reuse a mask, UV light is perfect. But be careful on skin as it also breaks down collagen (which is protein) in the skin.
* The virus CANNOT go through healthy skin.
* Vinegar is NOT useful because it does not break down the protective layer of fat.
* NO SPIRITS, OR VODKA, serve to break down the protein. The strongest vodka is 40% alcohol, and you need 65%.
* LISTERINE WILL! It is 65% alcohol.
* The more confined the space, the more concentration of the virus there can be. The more open or naturally ventilated, the less.
* You have to wash your hands before and after touching mucosa, food, locks, knobs, switches, remote control, cell phone, watches, computers, desks, TV, etc. And when using the bathroom.
* You have to Moisturize dry hands from so much washing them, because the molecules can hide in the micro cracks. The thicker the moisturizer, the better.
* Also keep your NAILS SHORT so that the virus does not hide there.
-JOHNS HOPKINS HOSPITAL

 

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So 151 rum is 75.5% alcohol, and wouldn't that work? - albeit a horrible waste of rum.  Everclear? IIRC is over 90% - Many years ago in the GWN (like Yukon) at a party saw a guy passed out with his eyes open. Shots of everclear chased with beer. 

The advice is all good, just thought to add a teeny tiny bit of levity.

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So if your body normal body  temp is 98.6F .. err..I dont get it 

77 deg F tap water would not be considered hot water 

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Good grief! This first statement is completely wrong! "The virus is not a living organism, but a protein molecule (DNA) covered by a protective layer of lipid (fat)". 

Coronaviruses are RNA viruses, that is, their genome is RNA, not DNA. Furthermore, they are not "a protein molecule" and protein molecules are not DNA, YIKES!.

Each large molecule of RNA is surrounded by a coating of proteins which are covered by a layer of lipids derived from the cell membrane from which the virus erupted and which is studded with proteins, the critical surface glycoproteins that interact with the ACE protein in our nasal cell membranes to infect them. 

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This one has been making the rounds and is increasingly discredited. It has appeared somewhere else on this site and I noted that Listerine is 26.9% alcohol according the manufacturer's website. If something so easily checked is wrong you wonder about other parts. The 77° thing seems improbable since there have been cases in places like Singapore and summertime Oz where it is much warmer than that.

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I looked on the JHU website and couldn't find it.  Does anyone have a link?  I was sent this also and asked about a link as the language did not seem like it came from a place like JHU.

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It’s a shame people like  Jules and Mr Clean regurgitate this type of thing.

77 deg F water is room temperature for Christ’s sake. 

 

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27 minutes ago, Cristoforo said:

Mr Clean regurgitate this type of thing.

 

 

huh?

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Fark ! It’s a scam and god knows why people get kicks from that shit .

 

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6 hours ago, Jules said:

* HEAT melts fat; this is why it is so good to use water above 77 degrees Fahrenheit for washing hands, clothes and everything. 

The 77 degree thing makes ZERO sense to me.

Why?

Because if 77°F was hot enough to kill the virus...how the hell can it infect a human body which is at 98.6°? Flying up your nose or getting in your mouth should kill it, if this is true.

"As hot as you can stand" seems like a better guideline for hand-washing.

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1 minute ago, B.J. Porter said:

The 77 degree thing makes ZERO sense to me.

Quote

HEAT melts fat; this is why it is so good to use water above 77 degrees Fahrenheit for washing hands, clothes and everything. 

Maybe read it again. They are saying that heat will dissolve the fat that is the outer protective layer. I don't know shit about this shit though.  

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6 hours ago, Jules said:

HEAT melts fat; this is why it is so good to use water above 77 degrees Fahrenheit for washing hands, clothes and everything. In addition, hot water makes more foam and that makes it even more useful.

makes perfect sense to me

77 is well known as a barrier temperature area for cleaning / sterilizing

the only thing wrong is some dipstick has changed oC to oF .. quite often done when some still use old fashioned measurements that almost everyone else has abandoned

 

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3 minutes ago, phill_nz said:

makes perfect sense to me

77 is well known as a barrier temperature for cleaning

the only thing wrong is some dipstick has changed oC to oF .. quite often done when some still use old fashioned measurements that almost everyone else has abandoned

Ah feck mate you ruined it ! Was fun watching them trying to work it out 

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You snooty metric system users think you are sooooooo smart....:-)

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Yeah well if I said I sailed an 8.2 yard sports boat it just wouldn’t sound as sexy as a 7.5 metre sports boat or a 750 sports boat 

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that was just shooting fish in a barrel though

you

3 minutes ago, bridhb said:

You snooty metric system users think you are sooooooo smart....:-)

yehh but thats like .. the rest of the planet .. and yes we exist

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1 hour ago, DustyDreamer said:

Maybe read it again. They are saying that heat will dissolve the fat that is the outer protective layer. I don't know shit about this shit though.  

OK, so snort a virus up your nose and BAM it's in a 98.6F environment.

The 77F guideline makes no sense.

1 hour ago, phill_nz said:

makes perfect sense to me

77 is well known as a barrier temperature area for cleaning / sterilizing

the only thing wrong is some dipstick has changed oC to oF .. quite often done when some still use old fashioned measurements that almost everyone else has abandoned

 

77C makes sense, yes.

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1 hour ago, 44forty said:
1 hour ago, phill_nz said:

makes perfect sense to me

77 is well known as a barrier temperature for cleaning

the only thing wrong is some dipstick has changed oC to oF .. quite often done when some still use old fashioned measurements that almost everyone else has abandoned

Ah feck mate you ruined it ! Was fun watching them trying to work it out 

Except I've also seen the same e-mail/FB meme circulating from my non-US friends with 25C as the target temp. Which makes as much sense as 77F...

The whole thing smells like a mish-mash of bullshit and fact.

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1 hour ago, B.J. Porter said:

OK, so snort a virus up your nose and BAM it's in a 98.6F environment.

The 77F guideline makes no sense.

Yeah, indeed. I didn't think that through. Heat can't disrupt the virus particle... duh. Checked with the Chief Scientist (aka wife) here who explained reel gud how this was complete horseshit. 

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I have to admit I'm a bit miffed by the findings here when what I posted came from an ER nurse who I know personally.  Maybe she trusted a source she shouldn't have trusted and saw "Johns Hopkins" and ran with it.  We will have a talk soon.

When looking for some reference to SARS-CoV-2 and temperature, I found this:

Coronavirus ‘highly sensitive’ to high temperatures, but don’t bank on summer killing it off, studies say

  • Pathogen appears to spread fastest at 8.72 degrees Celsius, so countries in colder climes should ‘adopt the strictest control measures’, according to researchers from Sun Yat-sen University in Guangdong province
  • But head of WHO’s health emergencies programme says it is ‘a false hope’ to think Covid-19 will just disappear like the flu
The virus that causes Covid-19 may have a temperature sweet spot at which it spreads fastest, a new study has suggested, but experts say people should avoid falling into the trap of thinking it will react to seasonal changes in exactly the same way as other pathogens, like those that cause the common cold or influenza.

The study, by a team from Sun Yat-sen University in Guangzhou, the capital of south China’s Guangdong province, sought to determine how the spread of the new coronavirus might be affected by changes in season and temperature.

Published last month, though yet to be peer-reviewed, the report suggested heat had a significant role to play in how the virus behaves.

“Temperature could significantly change Covid-19 transmission,” it said. “And there might be a best temperature for viral transmission.”

 

We may all become more knowledgeable about this virus than we ever expected to be.

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I for one really appreciate the opportunity to learn here. Posting "not quite right" info and then dissecting and correcting it is a useful exercise. 

I read an interesting paper on the other SARS virus related to how long it survived in certain environments. The gist is high heat and high humidity corresponded to a significant decrease in half-life. But in liquid is a different deal.

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29 minutes ago, DustyDreamer said:

I for one really appreciate the opportunity to learn here. Posting "not quite right" info and then dissecting and correcting it is a useful exercise. 

I read an interesting paper on the other SARS virus related to how long it survived in certain environments. The gist is high heat and high humidity corresponded to a significant decrease in half-life. But in liquid is a different deal.

I posted something here from the New England Journal of Medicine a few days ago that focused on surface stability.  IIRC, heat and humidity reduced the surface stability of the virus. 

But that study didn't touch on what happens once the virus enters the human body.  There is a video here by an Asian doctor that is excellent in explaining how the virus works in the human body.  I'll see if I can find it.

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Below is a common group of social media "tips" making the rounds....  along with feedback provided by Dr Jeremy Rossman, PhD in Infectious Diseases from the Univ of Kent.     Additional info at:   https://researchaidnetworks.org/covid19/

 

Dr Rossman's feedback is preceded by "***"

Original message:

Doctors are reporting they now understand the behavior of the COVID 19 virus due to autopsies that they have carried out. This virus is characterized by obstructing respiratory pathways with thick mucus that solidifies and blocks the airways and lungs. 

***Nope, this is not true, the disease is not characterized by mucus build up or airway obstruction.  You get pneumonia and fluid in the lungs that prevents absorbing oxygen from the air you breathe.

So they have discovered that in order to apply a medicine you have to open and unblock these airways so that the treatment can be used to take effect however all of this takes a number of days. Their recommendations for what you can do to safeguard yourself are …

***Nope, as you don’t need to unblock your airway.

1) Drink lots of hot liquids - coffees, soups, teas, warm water. In addition take a sip of warm water every 20 minutes bc this keeps your mouth moist and washes any of the virus that’s entered your mouth into your stomach where your gastric juices will neutralize it before it can get to the lungs.

***Nope, you’re breathing in most of the virus, so it’s not stuck in your throat.  Also, the virus sticks very well to your cells so it can’t just be washed off, even if it is in your throat.

2) Gargle with an antiseptic and warm water like vinegar or salt or lemon every day if possible

***As it’s not mainly in your throat, this won’t do anything….and gargling with vinegar sounds horrible.  I much prefer whiskey.

3) The virus attaches itself to hair and clothes. And detergent or soap kills it but you must take bath or shower when you get in from the street. Avoid sitting down in your home and go straight to the shower. If you cannot wash your clothes daily, hang them in sunlight which also helps to neutralize the virus

***If you have spent a long period of time indoors with someone that was infected, you could have some virus on your skin, hair or clothes.  It’s best not to spend time in close quarters with anyone that’s infected, but if you did then washing your clothes in hot water with detergent and showing would be advisable.  However, if you’ve just been out and about, there is not need for this, all you need is just to wash your hands.  Also, yes sunlight can help to kill the virus, but this take several days and is not necessary, just washing in hot water and detergent will kill all the virus anyways.

4) Wash metallic surfaces very carefully bc the virus can stay viable on these for up to 9 days. Take note and be vigilant about touching hand rails, door knobs, etc. and keep these clean in home home

***This is mostly true, the actual time is 3 days, but yes, you want to clean these with a disinfectant regularly.

5) Don’t smoke

***That’s true in all cases anyways, but it does put you at more of a risk here.

6) Wash your hands every 20 minutes with any soap that foams and do this for 20 seconds

***Washing your hands is the best thing you can do for prevention, but you don’t have to do this every 20min.  Wash if you’ve been out of the house, if you’ve touched something that might be contaminated, if you’ve blown your nose or coughed into a tissue, after you use the bathroom and before you eat.

7) Eat fruits and vegetables. Try to elevate your zinc levelS

***Again, generally good advice.  Zinc won’t protect you, but it also won’t hurt.

8)Animals do not spread the virus to people. Its a person to person transmission.

***Mostly true, the disease came from animals originally and pets may be infected, but it doesn’t seem like they then pass the virus back to people.

9)Try to avoid getting the common flu as this already weakens your system and try to avoid eating and drinking any cold things.

***All the precautions for COVID-19 will also protect you from the flu.  As for the temperature, the temperature of what you consume has no effect on the COVID-19 disease.

10) If you feel any discomfort in your throat or a sore throat coming on, attack it immediately using the above methods. The virus enters the system through the throat but will sit in the throat for 3-4 days before it passes into your lungs.

***No, this is dangerous advice.  If you have a sore throat, fever, body aches or any cough, call your doctor immediately and start self isolating.  The virus enters the lungs rapidly, it does not ’sit’ in the throat.

In addition ...

Experts suggest doing this simple verification every morning: Breathe in deeply and hold your breath for 10 seconds. If this can be done without coughing, without difficulty, this shows that there is no fibrosis in the lungs, indicating the absence of infection. It is recommended to do this control every morning to help detect infection.

 

***No and again this is dangerous advice.  Early in infection there are no respiratory symptoms and this ‘test’ does not tell you anything about infection.  Also, the disease is worse in people that already have fibrosis, COVID-19 does not cause fibrosis.

 

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Having personally (attempted to) teach microbiology to thousands of nursing students, the quality of the advice does not surprise me.  

Here are a couple of fun definitions that my friends found amusing.  (They often enjoy making fun of the sounds that come out of my mouth... weird.) 

Vector:  a living organism that transmits disease organisms.  Examples include Tsetse flies and Sophomores.

Fomite: an inanimate object that transmits disease organisms. Examples might include the door knob at the post office, or that can of chili that the grocer hands to you.  

So keep your vectors at arms length and wipe-down your fomites.  And for Pete's sake, don't fondle your fomites!

Yes, quite likely it's going to be on the test.

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