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jaco__c

Converting Class 40

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Has anyone converted a class 40 so that it is more comfortable to live on? like for a very fast cruising boat which can be used in the summer and then some racing during winter/.when not cruising. 

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I asked the same question a couple of years ago. Perhaps on Cruising Anarchy.

I thought an early boat with an extended transom to get better light air performance and act as a boarding platform would be a great idea. Never heard a word.........

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bring on plywood sheets and work on "furnitures". Take clue from Pogo 12.50. 

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There was this man who 'cruised' the world with his family on a Class 40 iirc. Journey was cut short due to broken mast, didn't have the funds for replacement. Amybody know how this saga continued? No drift intended, sorry.

But yes, I think thats a viable way. But maybe the existing alternatives (Pogo 40, 1050, JPK 38) are not too different in price and less complex? Mind you, the draft of a Class 40 can be prohibiting and a keel grounding can be desastrous.

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1 hour ago, Matagi said:

There was this man who 'cruised' the world with his family on a Class 40 iirc. Journey was cut short due to broken mast, didn't have the funds for replacement. Amybody know how this saga continued? No drift intended, sorry.

But yes, I think thats a viable way. But maybe the existing alternatives (Pogo 40, 1050, JPK 38) are not too different in price and less complex? Mind you, the draft of a Class 40 can be prohibiting and a keel grounding can be desastrous.

I think that was an open 40, I could be wrong though. 

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5 hours ago, jaco__c said:

Has anyone converted a class 40 so that it is more comfortable to live on? like for a very fast cruising boat which can be used in the summer and then some racing during winter/.when not cruising. 

You could always get a pre-made one Jaco ...:)

 

IMG_0672.JPG

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1 hour ago, mad said:

I think that was an open 40, I could be wrong though. 

https://www.sail-world.com/UK/High-Latitude-family-cruising-in-a-Class-40/-106956?source=google

This mentions a class 40 but I agree with you that i think there was a more recent one with a young family on a open/class 40 world cruise with small kids.

I'm bored and will do a bit more digging.

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We saw them in Trinidad last year - nice folks, but a lot of kids for a 40' boat.  It was an Open 40, not a class 40 - Owen Clarke design I think?  Glad it wasn't me!   Think they have a 50' trimaran somewhere in Europe now?  they've stopped updating their website and mostly seem to just be posting to instagram.

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47 minutes ago, basketcase said:

How many did they start with?

Two

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That Open 40 got a shortened aluminum mast and they guy is holding firm on his price.   Knew someone who made him several offers late last year and he held firm.   A proper replacement mast costs more than what he is asking for the boat.   You can now get early gen. Class 40s <$100k.

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1 hour ago, solosailor said:

That Open 40 got a shortened aluminum mast and they guy is holding firm on his price.   Knew someone who made him several offers late last year and he held firm.   A proper replacement mast costs more than what he is asking for the boat.   You can now get early gen. Class 40s <$100k.

I think when you've cruised the Southern Ocean with n+1 bambinis and no proper toilet, yes, you are someone who remains firm. On anything.

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3 hours ago, Ozzy said:

Two

Glad it wasn't six.

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We have an Akilaria RC-1 that we have been using for cruising charters in the UK. The first generation RC-1 was designed to allow for cruising. It has a higher freeboard making it totally usable down below and dry (ish) on deck. It has aft sleeping areas, a fore peak, a saloon with huge lee cloths and loads of space. We added an ORIGO alcohol oven and a fridge in the saloon table and we have everything we need for cruising. The heads is a proper plumbed in jabsco.

 

Cruising in a class 40 is awesome. You can passage plan for 10 knots. Solent to Cherbourg in 6 hours. An easy day sail. Eat ashore, sleep aboard. Sail back next day. If the weather gets rough, no problem, these things are built to cope with proper offshore conditions. I have more trust in a class 40 than any other boat. You can punch tide and still make progress. You can outrun bad weather. The boat is so stable, at 30 degrees heel it generates huge righting moment, no need to heel any more than that. Yes, they slam if you drive like an idiot and launch at 8.5 knots off a wave, but if you pinch up a bit, slow to 7, then bear away over the crest and run along the top, lengthening the wave it’s fine. And good fun to drive the boat properly. Downwind it is flat and fast. The most comfortable boat I have sailed.

 

The draft does restrict you, but on a neap tide you can go to places with a 2m depth. Just takes a bit of planning. We found the amazing sailing performance of surfing at 15 plus knots is worth the compromise and there are plenty of places to go without depth issues. Not many other boats can do that in a 40ft package which you can park in a normal marina berth and pay normal fees.

 

The first generation boats are crying out to be used for fast cruising, and if you want to do racing you get the chance to enter some pretty exclusive races, as you have a class 40. (route du rhum, TJV, globe race, first fleet in fastnet with the IMOCAs etc etc. Can sail single handed, double handed or fully crewed, sleeps 8.

 

Awesome boats.

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I think only the first gen Pogo 40 and Akilaria (RC1) are somehow cruisable without massive investment, and the stringers will eat the available space.

You would be better off with a Pogo 10,50 or 12.50 or even an akilaria Class 9.50 (smaller C40, shame the class didn´t work out)

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Pogo 1 is a spectacular boat, really roomy inside and very quick.  Would be easy for a couple and one or two kids to cruise on.

 

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1 hour ago, rmb said:

Pogo 1 is a spectacular boat, really roomy inside and very quick.  Would be easy for a couple and one or two kids to cruise on.

 

Some lightweight panels would be an easy way to add a couple more comforts if needed, take it out of class and use carbon if weight is a concern. 

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Read in Seahorse a few issues ago that the Classe 40 was intended as a racer cruiser, but the class quickly evolved into racers.

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The Pogo 12.50 borrows the same hull as the Pogo 40 S2. I believe a Pogo 12.50 even raced as a class 40 in the last Route de Rhum and that it can still measure in as one.

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i believe Owen Clarke Designs has  designs available  to convert existing C40 to cruising, big volume and lots of room
have discussed this with pete  (son who has worked with OCD and now elsewhere employed on HB7) they think internal structure, ideally shorter rig, reduced draft and C40 would make a great cruiser.
quiet a few Gen 1 and Gen 2 boats available

 

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I think it’s a great idea. The class has produced good boats, with a good layout for shorthanded cruising and they are available now in good numbers. Hope to see some people doing this when things calm down from the current situation. 

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12 hours ago, rmb said:

Pogo 1 is a spectacular boat, really roomy inside and very quick.  Would be easy for a couple and one or two kids to cruise on.

 

When I grow up I'll have a cruising/racing Pogo 1!  In fact, I allready have one on my radar in our marina. Now let's just hope the guy holds to it for another 10 years or so and that te price will drop significantly in that time  :D

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You realise if you grow up you will be chased out of here!

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14 hours ago, JamesC said:

We have an Akilaria RC-1 that we have been using for cruising charters in the UK. The first generation RC-1 was designed to allow for cruising. It has a higher freeboard making it totally usable down below and dry (ish) on deck. It has aft sleeping areas, a fore peak, a saloon with huge lee cloths and loads of space. We added an ORIGO alcohol oven and a fridge in the saloon table and we have everything we need for cruising. The heads is a proper plumbed in jabsco.

 

Cruising in a class 40 is awesome. You can passage plan for 10 knots. Solent to Cherbourg in 6 hours. An easy day sail. Eat ashore, sleep aboard. Sail back next day. If the weather gets rough, no problem, these things are built to cope with proper offshore conditions. I have more trust in a class 40 than any other boat. You can punch tide and still make progress. You can outrun bad weather. The boat is so stable, at 30 degrees heel it generates huge righting moment, no need to heel any more than that. Yes, they slam if you drive like an idiot and launch at 8.5 knots off a wave, but if you pinch up a bit, slow to 7, then bear away over the crest and run along the top, lengthening the wave it’s fine. And good fun to drive the boat properly. Downwind it is flat and fast. The most comfortable boat I have sailed.

 

The draft does restrict you, but on a neap tide you can go to places with a 2m depth. Just takes a bit of planning. We found the amazing sailing performance of surfing at 15 plus knots is worth the compromise and there are plenty of places to go without depth issues. Not many other boats can do that in a 40ft package which you can park in a normal marina berth and pay normal fees.

 

The first generation boats are crying out to be used for fast cruising, and if you want to do racing you get the chance to enter some pretty exclusive races, as you have a class 40. (route du rhum, TJV, globe race, first fleet in fastnet with the IMOCAs etc etc. Can sail single handed, double handed or fully crewed, sleeps 8.

 

Awesome boats.

And they've got the room for shiny bits to make the parking easier.

PogoRam.thumb.png.071edd090e1b4b7feb64218e27383888.png

 

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Ever seen this creature?

20170922t140908-0544-andere.jpg

Yes, it's wood. On the outside at least. And foils, and a canting keel. Got lengthened to 40ft by its owner/builder. He runs a yard and this is his pet project. There is a video from Silverrudder where you can see this thing go by, I will look for it.

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Owen Clarke designed a fast cruiser based on the class 40 hull which I was following as it was just the thing I was looking for.
Trouble is the build which was in South America went quiet for some reason so I've not seen the final result.

When I was looking at the idea it was a close run thing between converting or building new.

I did contact OCD a couple of years ago and asked if it was possible to add another 3ft on the back, reduce the cockpit area and add more internal volume aft.
My plan was to build new out of strip plank ceder with epoxy sheath in and out.
The deck would be foam or nidaplast core.
They had a plan for a daggerboard with a bulb and in theory at least it could dry out on the bulb and twin rudders.

The Pogo 12.50 is pretty much where I want to go but there are a few things I don't like about it and the cost of a decent 2nd hand one plus the mods would take me back up to new build territory.
 

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8 hours ago, Matagi said:

Ever seen this creature?

20170922t140908-0544-andere.jpg

Yes, it's wood. On the outside at least. And foils, and a canting keel. Got lengthened to 40ft by its owner/builder. He runs a yard and this is his pet project. There is a video from Silverrudder where you can see this thing go by, I will look for it.

Good promo vid on YouTube too , looks fuckin expensive though ! 

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58 minutes ago, perioecus said:

What about the Pogo don't you like?

For a start I would like a smaller cockpit designed for two and a proper back rather than the straight through cockpit.
This would provide a lot more useable space below decks aft and would obviously opting for the tiller version.
Having sailed a lot in deep water and had a few waves join me in the cockpit from astern, I've been thankful to having something solid behind me rather than just a wire.
Plus its a bitch when you drop your last lighter on the floor and watch it roll out the back!
It would also nice to hang a windvane auto pilot off it as well.

The solution is probably a Pogo 44 and a sheet of plywood.

 

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1 hour ago, GBR562 said:

For a start I would like a smaller cockpit designed for two and a proper back rather than the straight through cockpit.
This would provide a lot more useable space below decks aft and would obviously opting for the tiller version.
Having sailed a lot in deep water and had a few waves join me in the cockpit from astern, I've been thankful to having something solid behind me rather than just a wire.
Plus its a bitch when you drop your last lighter on the floor and watch it roll out the back!
It would also nice to hang a windvane auto pilot off it as well.

The solution is probably a Pogo 44 and a sheet of plywood.

 

Hiya GBR,

I'm curious, as I just don't see what you describe. Each to their own of course, but I must admit I never get water over the transom. I can get water to come over the transom if I motor backward in sloppy seas, but I honestly can't remember if it has ever happened sailing or motoring regardless of sea state.Maybe once or twice in a few years? I just can't remember it. 

The rear cabins have enough headroom to shed your gear (I'm 6'1")  and you can nearly lie abeam across the rear berth. The lazarette is a metre deep and two people can lie abeam without touching each other.

The cockpit is big and I do confess to not liking small cockpits but the 12.50 is designed for single handing, so at the tiller everything is within reaching distance. We rafted up with some mates at the end of a race once and as the evening wore on it started to rain, so everyone decided to move the party downstairs on on the Pogo. We had 12 bodies in the cabin, some good tunes and it turned into an impromptu night club. The rain stopped and nobody bothered to go upstairs, so the large cockpit doesn't enroach on the cabin space enough to notice.       

100% agree on a windvane, I don't know how you would rig one. And the lighter thing...absolutely :mellow:

Cheers!

SB

Edit: In the interests of fairness, I should add that Scanas was dancing on the table top that night, but that wasn't a room issue, that's Scanas' naturally gregarious personality :)

   

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11 hours ago, Matagi said:

Ever seen this creature?

20170922t140908-0544-andere.jpg

Yes, it's wood. On the outside at least. And foils, and a canting keel. Got lengthened to 40ft by its owner/builder. He runs a yard and this is his pet project. There is a video from Silverrudder where you can see this thing go by, I will look for it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=flL72amP5-g ?

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Mate of mine is cruising the Med with one small kid (G4) on a Pogo 40. They love the boat, fast and comfortable but needs a bigger motor

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Here it is:

 

 

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Quote

I'm curious, as I just don't see what you describe. Each to their own of course, but I must admit I never get water over the transom. I can get water to come over the transom if I motor backward in sloppy seas, but I honestly can't remember if it has ever happened sailing or motoring regardless of sea state.Maybe once or twice in a few years? I just can't remember it.

I don't think it would be an issue when racing or pushing.
Where it can be an issue is in the trades with rollers when doing long passages.
95% of the time the boat is on autohelm and every now and then you will run into the back of a wave.
The boat slows and the top of the following wave flops down, usually over the quarter.
At night I run with less sail, mainly as I can't see approaching squalls and the slower speed can make it worse.

I was nearly washed out of the cockpit, at night, on an Oyster 435, which has a centre cockpit when crossing Biscay a few years ago, so I guess I'm a bit sensitive about it.

 

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On 4/7/2020 at 7:57 PM, Matagi said:

Ever seen this creature?

20170922t140908-0544-andere.jpg

Yes, it's wood. On the outside at least. And foils, and a canting keel. Got lengthened to 40ft by its owner/builder. He runs a yard and this is his pet project. There is a video from Silverrudder where you can see this thing go by, I will look for it.

Jesus Fucking Christ.

I love it so much, I'm gonna have dreams about it.

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that's a hell of a nosejob they gave her.

And silverrudder? Just no. holy hell.

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Yeah, that was a pretty crazy edition. btw: Mast came down on Black Maggy later in the race.

Which brings me back to the point: 

How much would you need to sacrifice to get a Class 40 into 'cruising' mode, meaning a fashion of sailing that you and -presumably your family- crew can sustain AND enjoy? I know I wouldn't enjoy pushing my boat to 300 nm days in my holidays for a prolonged period of time. Plus my wife would divorce me, citing psychological cruelty and submitting missing toilet doors as evidence. And rightly so.

So. Why wouldn't a J/121 also do it?

J-composites_J121_MAKE-THE-MOST-OF-THE-O

vs.

otc-BTBoats.jpg

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8 hours ago, Matagi said:

Here it is:

 

 

Anybody else pick up on the port and starboard at 7 minutes 30 in?? 

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9 minutes ago, Matagi said:

Yeah, that was a pretty crazy edition. btw: Mast came down on Black Maggy later in the race.

Which brings me back to the point: 

How much would you need to sacrifice to get a Class 40 into 'cruising' mode, meaning a fashion of sailing that you and -presumably your family- crew can sustain AND enjoy? I know I wouldn't enjoy pushing my boat to 300 nm days in my holidays for a prolonged period of time. Plus my wife would divorce me, citing psychological cruelty and submitting missing toilet doors as evidence. And rightly so.

So. Why wouldn't a J/121 also do it?

J-composites_J121_MAKE-THE-MOST-OF-THE-O

vs.

otc-BTBoats.jpg

Sell them on the idea that it’s easier to keep clean? :)

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I always thought the JPK 38 does not get the attention it deserves. To me, it's pretty close to the requirements you set out.

1IMG_6232.jpg

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12 hours ago, mad said:

Anybody else pick up on the port and starboard at 7 minutes 30 in?? 

Yes, pretty sure I recall a collision with a concrete pylon somewhere in the video as well, or a super-near-miss.

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14 hours ago, mad said:

Anybody else pick up on the port and starboard at 7 minutes 30 in?? 

That looked like the least suitable venue, and day, for a large single handed regatta.  There were moments I had to look away.  7:30 in was one of them...  I was only surprised that there weren't more.

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2 hours ago, European Bloke said:

That looked like the least suitable venue, and day, for a large single handed regatta.  There were moments I had to look away.  7:30 in was one of them...  I was only surprised that there weren't more.

The good stuff starts about at about 8:30. It's a double near-miss -- the third boat that enters the picture on port from the lower-right very nearly encountered a sudden need for a nose-job, too. In fact, I can't believe that neither of the two near-casualties didn't need at least some new paint even if they avoided critical damage. Their skippers surely needed fresh trousers.

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Right, many skippers got surprised when they came out the harbour. First by the wind, then by the ferry.

Most experienced skippers went for mainsail only configuration for the start. What they lose in speed, they make up in manoeverability and positioning. Watch and learn.

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3 hours ago, Matagi said:

Right, many skippers got surprised when they came out the harbour. First by the wind, then by the ferry.

Most experienced skippers went for mainsail only configuration for the start. What they lose in speed, they make up in manoeverability and positioning. Watch and learn.

Made me think that self tacking jibs have a time and a place, and I hate self tacking jibs.

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My personal favourite is this old double-ender at the 3:35 mark. You never would have guessed that from a Laurin 32, would you? Beat an X-342 in the end.

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Now that's a race. Didn't remember the Baltic had such strong currents but now I recall a start at Malmo with no wind but no one could get back to the line from tne current. I would like to switch to self tacking but also hate all that leech flutter.

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Just because why not:

f_def1d2f4b1.jpeg

I really hope Fora is going to make it, this is one advanced machine. Outlook is looking ... challenging, mildly put. 

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52 minutes ago, Matagi said:

Just because why not:

f_def1d2f4b1.jpeg

I really hope Fora is going to make it, this is one advanced machine. Outlook is looking ... challenging, mildly put. 

Any more details available please?

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Totally focused  - but I want that anchor platform.

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8 hours ago, Matagi said:

Just because why not:

f_def1d2f4b1.jpeg

I really hope Fora is going to make it, this is one advanced machine. Outlook is looking ... challenging, mildly put. 

I wouldn't dare buying a boat from RM: https://interestingsailboats.blogspot.com/2020/03/rm-yachts-bankruptcy-and-shameful.html

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1 hour ago, Misbehavin' said:

I knew about the bankruptcy, but what came after sounds even worse. Still, the design is great, very close to a C40 from a cruisers perspective. Would love to see more of them or some ... 'derivatives' that take inspiration from it.

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Posted (edited)

The first generation of Class 40s make excellent fast cruisers. Pogo1, Akilaria RC1, Express 40 these require very little alteration and JamesC who mentions his RC1 which we also have on our brokerage listings is eminently suitable as it has had all the minor tweaks done to make it a very usable fast ocean cruiser. We have designed a composite expedition boat based on our 2nd generation Class40 hull taking into account allowance for additional cruising kit payload. The first of these was in 'slow' build in Valdivia in Chile by a professional boatyard that has been building Chris White catamarans for many years. Sadly that yard has closed due to the recent political unrest and then Covid 19 finished the yard off. This semi custom lifting keel design can be adapted up to 44' in length and built in variety of materials. Strip Plank, foam sandwich (Epoxy or Vinylester) Carbon or E glass, or even in Aluminium. 

The problem with Pogo 12.50 up until recent global developments, has been the waiting list, otherwise it does make the worthy successor to the original aim of the Class 40 ethos of being able to fast cruise, something that disappeared once the 2nd generation of Class 40 designs developed. 2nd generation designs and later can be used for fast cruising though as one of the posters above mentions 'the wife and kids' might have something to say about passage making in a high speed, wet, very noise, composite drum that at best offers limited camping on water facilities. You have to make your choices very carefully when picking something like this but we have assisted a good number of couples and families make the transition to fast cruising in Class 40s.

If your serious about using a second hand boat for cruising then reach out through our Brokerage

Plus as designers then we can offer various options on the 40' design already mentioned. 40 Fast cruiser

 

 

Edited by OCD1
Poor wording in body of text by myself
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8 hours ago, Matagi said:

I knew about the bankruptcy, but what came after sounds even worse. Still, the design is great, very close to a C40 from a cruisers perspective. Would love to see more of them or some ... 'derivatives' that take inspiration from it.

If it were me, I would pick a JPK38.

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7 hours ago, Misbehavin' said:

If it were me, I would pick a JPK38.

Nice boats, underrated. 

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17 hours ago, Misbehavin' said:

Paulo is an glorified blogger who takes other media sources and basically reposts it as if he has personal knowledge. 
 

what happened to RM has been discussed and posted here going back to when Ofcet went bankrupt and concerns that it would spill over to RM. The problem for previous customers who put down deposits and partial payments is a problem that was never going to be solved because of mismanagement. Folks who think prior RM management was going to be the better new owners are kidding themselves - they were the ones responsible for racking up expenses developing new models every year and pushing for bigger and bigger boats that eventually made the ply composite inadequate and complicated to continue to produce decks/hulls for. 

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Another good thing about the Class 40 hull shape is you do just fine with being lazy and putting only white sails up when cruising. High averages that are easy is a nice to have.

All this talk...I so wish we could go sailing.

PogoSurfing3.jpg.3d2a4612399bf69f7eb25f3a4dece241.jpg

 

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How could I forget?

V580x0-270f965af14f23ed84d5b6429ef5ce0f.

Code 1, Marc Lombard design. Like when an old Pilot cutter mates with a young, hot Class 40...

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On 4/8/2020 at 9:24 AM, dralyagmas said:

Mate of mine is cruising the Med with one small kid (G4) on a Pogo 40. They love the boat, fast and comfortable but needs a bigger motor

yep thats me.

 

Super fun fast simple boat to do fast cruising aboard.  The squid has done north of 3k nm from Brittany to Greece, top speed so far 18kn jib one reef.

Done a bunch of charter skipper work and love the simplicity and user friendly ness coming from the racing back ground vers the usual mass built white boat.

bit harder work to sail but helluva lot more fun and rewarding to sail.

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On 4/11/2020 at 2:43 AM, Miffy said:

Paulo is an glorified blogger who takes other media sources and basically reposts it as if he has personal knowledge. 
 

what happened to RM has been discussed and posted here going back to when Ofcet went bankrupt and concerns that it would spill over to RM. The problem for previous customers who put down deposits and partial payments is a problem that was never going to be solved because of mismanagement. Folks who think prior RM management was going to be the better new owners are kidding themselves - they were the ones responsible for racking up expenses developing new models every year and pushing for bigger and bigger boats that eventually made the ply composite inadequate and complicated to continue to produce decks/hulls for. 

Thanks, didn't know that.

 

On 4/11/2020 at 2:08 AM, shaggybaxter said:

Nice boats, underrated. 

There's a great 'build thread' about one on here:

 

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On 4/11/2020 at 11:46 AM, Matagi said:

How could I forget?

V580x0-270f965af14f23ed84d5b6429ef5ce0f.

Code 1, Marc Lombard design. Like when an old Pilot cutter mates with a young, hot Class 40...

This boat now has foils too

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