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RobG

How Covid-19 kills you

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Tonight on Australian TV's 7.30 Report there was an interview with Intensive Care Specialist Professor Hugh Montgomery (search—non AU IP addresses are probably blocked—skip to 24:00). Here is my summary of what he said in regard to comparisons between Covid-19 and the flu, and how it affects your body. The bottom line: currently they know what the disease does (see below), but they don't know how it odes it.

Montgomery said "This is being presented like bad flu and it really isn't. This is as different from flu as Ebola is from an ingrown toenail. This is a very very different disease. You might feel like you have flu … but this is not the same thing."

He goes on to say that patients get progressively short of oxygen as the oxygen levels in their blood fall. They have a "very profound desire to breath that is way beyond what would be driven just by the low levels of oxygen". Some patients aren't even aware of their increased breathing. They are observed to be blue (cyanosed) and panting, yet they're unaware they're unwell at all. This may explain why people appear to become unwell very quickly, e.g. Boris Johnson.

Normally, a viral or bacterial infection of the lung will cause it to fill with fluid and pussy tissue as a consequence of the infection. That isn't what happens with Covid-19. What they are seeing is that there is something wrong with the blood vessels in the lung. Blood is arriving in the lungs full of CO2, then transiting to the arterial side with the same level of CO2. So a lot of the problem seems to be vascular. When they measure clotting in the blood, it's "off the scale abnormal".  There are agents in the blood* that break down clots that are at "stratospheric levels". 

So Covid-19 seems to be a blood and blood vessel disorder, it's just that the symptoms appear to be like pneumonia. To me it seems to operate like carbon monoxide poisoning (though obviously isn't).

He also said that once patients require intubation, about 50% die.

* He seems to say "dezymers" but the closest thing I can find is "D-Dimer" but likely that's just too much detail…

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Hi Rob this may help  In a nutshell only

Where anyone says organ and heart failure is the cause of death and not viral respiratory failure is talking shitfuckery. Likewise saying age, heart and other organ pre-condititions. They simply shorten the treatment/fatality time scale, it doesn't alter the cause of death.

Not getting into an ICU because health system capacity is swamped (also factor in normal non virus related ICU admissions) is what kills in a respiratory pandemic, not a treatable virus. It does not descriminate but those older or at risk are the predominate ICU admissions. Ask UK PM Boris Johnson in his 50's, regarded as low risk who is finding that out first hand. 

Note: At 1.45, heart failure is the leading cause of death caused by the virus.

 

 

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Yes, aware that the ultimate cause of death is heart failure (as in many diseases), just putting it out there Covid-19 is nothing like the flu, it's a totally different disease.

The person in the Channel 4 clip (which I've seen before) describes typical viral or bacterial pneumonia that floods the lungs with fluid. From my understanding, Hugh Montgomery is saying that Covid-19 does not cause pneumonia, it's a blood and vascular disease that affects the exchange of O2 and CO2 in the lungs.  So similar symptoms and same result (blood doesn't get oxygenated) but totally different mechanism.

How it does it is not understood. Please watch the 7.30 Report video.

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My partner is clinician at a large academic hospital. A lot of patients, from dealing with the lung infection for weeks - can pickup other opportunistic lung infections. Others, drown as their lungs are basically leaking - lung tissue in a pathologist slide turns what should be healthy lung tissue with bubbles to exchange gas - into what looks like scab tissue as you would from an external injury trying to heal. 
 

There’s evidence the virus can reach the heart. It is not a good death but a very lonely slow one. 

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It slowly kills you by taking loved ones away. Cruel bastard. 

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https://www.preprints.org/manuscript/202004.0023/v1

It is still a hypothesis, but in short , virus kills something that had a function, that function was too prevent blood cell leakage.

Now being discussed for more clinical trails at Remapcap.
A Randomised, Embedded, Multi-factorial, Adaptive Platform Trial for Community-Acquired Pneumonia
https://www.remapcap.org/partners

Preprints has to be used with care, but in those days it can deliver quicker news then peer review delays. It is a kind of idea pool with quick access.
But it shows a lot of research is going on. Lets hope they all together can find a medicine and later a vaccine.

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On 4/7/2020 at 9:46 PM, RobG said:

Tonight on Australian TV's 7.30 Report there was an interview with Intensive Care Specialist Professor Hugh Montgomery (search—non AU IP addresses are probably blocked—skip to 24:00).

BUMP - A must for anyone you thinks this is like a normal respiratory disease. 

"This is being presented as "bad flu"...that is like comparing Ebola to an ingrown toenail."

 

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On 4/7/2020 at 11:19 AM, RobG said:

Yes, aware that the ultimate cause of death is heart failure

I read a couple of reports that said if COVID caused heart failure, the death would go down as heart failure and not COVID.

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44 minutes ago, Jules said:

I read a couple of reports that said if COVID caused heart failure, the death would go down as heart failure and not COVID.

There are two shitfuckery stories doing the rounds being milked by some with ulterior motives.

The one you note has been leveled against say Spain Govt looking to suppress numbers.

The other that pre-conditions are being ignored and anyone dying with a positive test the death certificate only says virus related. This is used by some to claim that say US and Italy deaths are overstated.

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On 4/11/2020 at 10:35 PM, Jules said:

I read a couple of reports that said if COVID caused heart failure, the death would go down as heart failure and not COVID.

There was a lot of discussion about "what is a Covid-19 death". I listened to a doctor on the radio saying the death numbers were total bullshit, he never put a disease as a cause of death, he always put the actual cause. So I guess for Covid-19 he'd have put "viral pneumonia leading to heart failure" and not mentioned at all that the patient was Covid-19 positive.

There is also evidence that Covid-19 affects heart rhythms. Hydroxychloroquine was suggested as a treatment because it may suppress an over active immune response to Covid-19. However, they both affect heart rhythms in the same way (if I remember correctly, both slow the heart by extend the QT interval), so while hydroxychloroquine might attenuate the immune response, it exacerbates the heart rhythm effect.

Getting the numbers exact doesn't really matter, as long as the methodology is consistent and reasonably accurate the data will show trends more–or–less accurately.

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59 minutes ago, Varan said:

Strokes if you are a youngin. 

Yes, it had previously been found that Covid-19 cause an increase in the blood agent that responds to clots, I guess it's correlation at the moment until clinical studies show causation.

Here's an article on hydroxychloroquine and heart rhythms, recent preliminary studies show an increased risk of mortality for Covid-19 patients treated with it. Trump is no longer touting it as a cure, I wonder if the very stable genius who just knows stuff will apologise for getting it wrong.

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1 hour ago, RobG said:

I wonder if the very stable genius who just knows stuff will apologise for getting it wrong.

:lol:  No. You can stop wondering now.

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On 4/22/2020 at 2:30 AM, RobG said:

There was a lot of discussion about "what is a Covid-19 death". I listened to a doctor on the radio saying the death numbers were total bullshit, he never put a disease as a cause of death, he always put the actual cause. So I guess for Covid-19 he'd have put "viral pneumonia leading to heart failure" and not mentioned at all that the patient was Covid-19 positive.

 

On 4/11/2020 at 9:17 AM, jack_sparrow said:

There are two shitfuckery stories doing the rounds being milked by some with ulterior motives.

The one you note has been leveled against say Spain Govt looking to suppress numbers.

The other that pre-conditions are being ignored and anyone dying with a positive test the death certificate only says virus related. This is used by some to claim that say US and Italy deaths are overstated.

 

On 4/11/2020 at 8:35 AM, Jules said:

I read a couple of reports that said if COVID caused heart failure, the death would go down as heart failure and not COVID.

 

A lot of the confusion and general fuckery, on this score, is because nobody's taking the time to look up the CDC guidance for filling out a death certificate, and see what the cause-of-death section of a death certificate actually looks like. 

Death certificates list, separately: 

  1. "immediate cause of death"  -  one line
  2. condition(s) that led to the immediate cause of death  -  3 lines, with specific instructions that the
  3. underlying cause of death goes on the bottom line; so that what you have is a logical sequence, where each condition leads to the one above it.
  4. Then there's another box, below that, for "other significant conditions contributing to death" that are not part of the sequence listed above.

The shit-stirrers and the confused are all doing the same thing: conflating those four categories.

 

the original, out-of-date guidance has the sample right on the first page:

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvss/coronavirus/Alert-1-Guidance-for-Certifying-COVID-19-Deaths.pdf

 

the later guidance explains a bit more; the example certificate is on page 4:

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvss/vsrg/vsrg03-508.pdf

 

the general manual, that the first second guidance referred to, is a longer discussion.  Cause of death stuff start on page 16, the example death certificate is on page 17:

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/misc/hb_cod.pdf

 

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, frenchie said:

A lot of the confusion and general fuckery, on this score, is because nobody's taking the time to look up the CDC guidance for filling out a death certificate, and see what the cause-of-death section of a death certificate actually looks like. ...

^^^^^This

You nailed it Frenchie putting aside CDC only US.

A similiar situation unfolding in the UK BUT not overstating but understating Convid as COD where the perception is UK COD and CDC guidelines are very similar.

Evidence already appearing by looking at historical all death records to all deaths today, the US are in the same boat as the UK.

PS. To the best of my knowledge in Belgium you die now having looked at a COVID positive your COD is COVID. Hence where they sit on the per capita death rate  at the moment..BUT their health system not overwhelmed.

The real truth will come out down the line.

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Edited by jack_sparrow
PS. Added.

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You start to wonder when the virus becomes less mortal. It is not handy to kill your hosts.

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39 minutes ago, LeoV said:

You start to wonder when the virus becomes less mortal. It is not handy to kill your hosts.

Leo slow not kill..words like we have proved we can "eradicate" appearing from some successful suppressors for their domestic consumption or dick waving internationaly is a worry.

A pandemic rated epidemic that global health care professionals are still struggling to get their head around, doesn't recognise a border on a map. 

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4 hours ago, jack_sparrow said:

^^^^^This

You nailed it Frenchie putting aside CDC only US.

Looks extremely similar.  1 less line.

death-certificate-uk-medical-certificate

 

4 hours ago, jack_sparrow said:

A similiar situation unfolding in the UK BUT not overstating but understating Convid as COD where the perception is UK COD and CDC guidelines are very similar.

Same over here; I just responded to you in another thread with the NYC numbers from a week ago.  The conspiracy mongers went crazy over the City adding 3700 "probable" deaths to the count; completely ignoring the fact this still left an another ~ 3600 deaths, over & above our normal monthly average... unexplained.

 

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1 hour ago, frenchie said:

Looks extremely similar.  1 less line.

Your are a good man. I saved that.

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On 4/8/2020 at 12:40 PM, Miffy said:

My partner is clinician at a large academic hospital. A lot of patients, from dealing with the lung infection for weeks - can pickup other opportunistic lung infections. Others , drown as their lungs are basically leaking - lung tissue in a pathologist slide turns what should be healthy lung tissue with bubbles to exchange gas - into what looks like scab tissue  as you would from an external injury trying to heal. 

There’s evidence the virus can reach the heart. It is not a good death but a very lonely slow one. 

Miff good one for you.. cardiovascular COD high.

April 2020 JACC - COVID-19 and Thrombotic or Thromboembolic Disease: Implications for Prevention, Antithrombotic Therapy, and Follow-up

 

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2 hours ago, RobG said:

There are lots of unexpected complications

Thanks linky Rob...look at your OP date ...they are really learning on the run.

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48 minutes ago, jack_sparrow said:

No one wants to be right - but somehow the folks with connections to people actually in medicine and clinical care provision keep giving the same warnings - then two weeks later it happens and the same morons who keep posting fringe search results or mental gymnastics either disappear or cock up the next nonsense theory. 

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There's a simple way, I believe, to check whether a patient has this particular pernicious lung problem.  As noted above, it seems to inhibit oxygen take-up in the blood. 

So a daily finger-based pulse oximeter check of your blood O2 level should be a good marker.  If it starts going South, get help, like now.

Oximeters are cheap - Amazon has them from $39 and up.  Easy to use at home.

I use one daily, with sphygmo readings and oral temperature.  (For other medical reasons, anyway).

I text numbers to my primary doc.  She's happy to get a pattern so she can see the changes.

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i think i picked the wrong year to quit smoking

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34 minutes ago, MR.CLEAN said:

i think i picked the wrong year to quit smoking

I think you quit the wrong year to quit sniffing glue.  ;-)

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48 minutes ago, P_Wop said:

There's a simple way, I believe, to check whether a patient has this particular pernicious lung problem.  As noted above, it seems to inhibit oxygen take-up in the blood. 

So a daily finger-based pulse oximeter check of your blood O2 level should be a good marker.  If it starts going South, get help, like now.

Oximeters are cheap - Amazon has them from $39 and up.  Easy to use at home.

I use one daily, with sphygmo readings and oral temperature.  (For other medical reasons, anyway).

I text numbers to my primary doc.  She's happy to get a pattern so she can see the changes.

My daughter has seen blood O2 levels <40 where they should be stone motherless dead but still very lucid and they are Convid survivors. She has seen levels way above that and they were dead before hitting the ambulance. Temperature is the king.

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13 minutes ago, jack_sparrow said:

My daughter has seen blood O2 levels <40 where they should be stone motherless dead but still very lucid and they are Convid survivors. She has seen levels way above that and they were dead before hitting the ambulance. Temperature is the king.

Thanks for that insight.  Very good.

However, I'd suggest keeping a regular daily check on vitals is a pretty useful thing, as you can spot the delta.

There's another theory that the Covid virus has already mutated, so some of the previously useful measurements may not be so good.  If so, we're in a world of hurt.

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To the OP, here is a very good article.

My understanding is that folks with vascular disease (diabetes, hypertension, cardiac dz) and obesity are most at-risk. But those with kidney dz are as well, partially because there is so much overlap. 

The virus often enters the body via olfactory passages, via ACE-2 receptors found there in large #s. Sense of smell and headaches, body aches, cough. Then marches down pharynx, trachea and infects lungs. There it may create a pneumonia from inflammation or usual killing cells/immune response/viral debris/occluded alveoli which fill with fluids. May create ARDS-like picture with typical CT "ground glass" appearance, or crazy paving. Basically, lung failure, which has to be treated by intubation and supportive ventilation. 

Patients are also noted to have super-low amounts of oxygen in the blood; pulse oximetry readings (red and blue wavelengths of light shone into the finger are reflected or absorbed by hemoglobin depending on whether they are bound to oxygen or CO2, and the pulse rate and oxygen "saturation" can be thus determined) are ridiculously low yet patients don't report shortness of breath and don't seem to be breathing hard. That disconnect is bizarre, but the end organ effects of not enough oxygen delivery ain't good.

The virus may infect hearts, causing alteration in electrical system function, or causing inflammation of vessels and coronary-artery occlusion without the atherosclerosis. Or it can just swell heart tissues and interfere via inflammation and decrease function, which can lead to heart failure. 

There may be cytokine storm, where inflammatory mediators used by the immune system to signal needs for cell destruction, rebuilding, a variety of functions are created in chaotic and overproduction modes which basically overwhelm homeostasis (the state of the body functioning normally) and spin-off problems can be seizures or other central nervous system (the brain and spinal cord) dysfunction, general inflammation with painful extremities and organ dysfunction from reduced and absent blood supply, and abnormal blood clotting.

Abnormal blood clotting is appearing to be significant in many patients, and frequently felt to be causal to death by pulmonary embolism (blood clots in great veins breaking loose, traveling through the right side of the heart and blocking vessels in the lungs), stroke and sudden cardiac death. Since many patients are already immobile and inflammation is a notable feature of the dz, this could be predicted, but not to the degree & extent observed.

Finally, as much as a third of patients die with kidney failure, requiring dialysis to do the work of the kidneys due (I'm guessing) to combined effects of  cytokine storm, dehydration, cellular and other debris clogging kidneys and impairing function, and direct inflammatory effects. This triggers acid/base derangements, failure to clear blood of nitrogen and fluid regulation suffer as well as regulatory hormone production.... its a mess and thats why nephrologists are some of the smartest docs in the room.

In sum, the disease kills via a constellation of injuries. In some cases causing death by a thousand cuts, other times with a single mortal blow. Care is mostly supportive, but trends are becoming recognized. 

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This dispels the myth that those dying of COVID-19 were already “at death’s door”.

If you are into clinical reading these two reports from the UK.

First Report

Runs to 4pm on 30 April. It covers 7,542 patients, with outcome data on 5,139 of them. There are 2,497 and 2,642 patients discharged from critical care.

ICNARC Report on COVID-19 in Critical Care 01 May 2020 

- Surviving ICU is 50/50.

- Surviving below age 50, 9-in-12 survive. Age 50 to 59, 6 in 10 survive. Above age 70, 4-in-12 survive.

- BMI about as many admissions for healthy weight (or under).

- 92% of ICU patients were able to live without assistance in daily activities pre sdmission. Only 8% of patients admitted to ICU have very severe comorbidities.

Second Report.

Features of 16,749 hospitalised UK patients with COVID-19 using the ISARIC WHO Clinical Characterisation Protocol

- Age-adjusted mortality rates are high in the elderly, however most of these patients were admitted to hospital would not have died otherwise.

- Small impact of preexisting medical conditions on fatality rate.

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On 4/26/2020 at 8:17 PM, Ease the sheet. said:

This is sounding less like a respiratory illness and more like a circulatory illness.

Buttressing your observation is a strong association of chilblains with Positive Coronavirus test results.

Chilblains are an otherwise relatively uncommon inflammation of small blood vessels, most common in cold/damp environments, which cause itchy and painful toes. Lesions can develop, and sometimes those suffering cannot stand to wear socks or shoes.

The underlying cause, however, seems to be either an inflammatory pathway, or via micro clots... leading me to believe that chaotic inflammation is the more likely route by which the virus does its damage.

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From what I’ve seen, the Coronavirus doesn’t just kill those at deaths door. Marathon runners, subway workers, healthcare workers... anyone unlucky enough to get a lethal dose of virus, or to simply suffer a statistically likely collapse due to the vast numbers infected is at risk.

Yes, nursing homes are supplying the greatest majority of patients coming in after 5-7 days of increasing symptoms, but healthier and younger ICU patients are showing up after the apparent worst of the disease is past, some 7-10 days after first symptoms. They felt like they were getting better when they suddenly worsen.

We’ve seen a sudden jump in the last few days of patients being intubated. I really hope it’s not a trend which continues. We’ve only so much resources.

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14 minutes ago, phillysailor said:

Buttressing your observation is a strong association of chilblains with Positive Coronavirus test results.

Chilblains are an otherwise relatively uncommon inflammation of small blood vessels, most common in cold/damp environments, which cause itchy and painful toes. Lesions can develop, and sometimes those suffering cannot stand to wear socks or shoes.

The underlying cause, however, seems to be either an inflammatory pathway, or via micro clots... leading me to believe that chaotic inflammation is the more likely route by which the virus does its damage.

Would be nice if they had more testing in Texas.  I can't get a test because I don't have a fever.  But I do have smokers cough from smoking,  brewer's drop from drinking beer. And and have developed spots all over my body,  more prevalent on face,  back,  legs and top of feet. But I doubt have a fever so no test!

In my case maybe I have a case of industrial disease.  Doctor prescribed anti biotic and medicated topical cream.

I just hope I dont end up in dire straits.

The spots are unnerving though.  Starting to see similar photos about covid when searching. 

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Gain-of-function chimeric coronavirus research dates back to at least 2000.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC111474/

 

And Bat Woman Shi Zhengli was prominent in the synthetic virology race of spike proteins within human and bat coronaviruses; she was trained in various bio-labs/universities across the globe.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shi_Zhengli
https://link.springer.com/book/10.1007/978-1-4939-2438-7

Many people who learn about this futzing virus research work ask a very valid question:

“Why would you do something so potentially risky, why would any sane scientists create chimeric killer viruses…?” 

The politically correct answer they would retort with is to develop preventive measures (drugs or vaccines) from possible natural chimeras and to understand the risks of their occurrence.

“What happens if there is Lab safety protocol fails…?”

SARS Cov 2 happens.

https://project-evidence.github.io/

 

*How Covid-19 kills you*

It is a three stage play - a stealth phase, an acute phase and then a chronic longer-term damage phase, Hypoxia being a key component.

Where does the damage manifest?

1587658800495.thumb.png.4be59bb8e819aca7e8fb16340d07e9a9.png

 

Finally, though the financial incentive for Remdesivir is being driven from the very top of the food chain. Here is a promising list of alternatives, some not in patent.

https://theconversation.com/we-found-and-tested-47-old-drugs-that-might-treat-the-coronavirus-results-show-promising-leads-and-a-whole-new-way-to-fight-covid-19-136789

 

You’re welcome!

 

:0

 

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16 hours ago, Marinatrix447 said:

“What happens if there is Lab safety protocol fails…?”

SARS Cov 2 happens.

https://project-evidence.github.io/

Holy shit!  

A sane, reasonable collection of the actual evidence for that theory... instead of the usual batshit-fringe-right-wing-conspiracy-mongering garbage... that even includes debunkings of the unsupported-purely-batshit sub-theories...

In all sincerity: thank you.  That's a rare find, that.

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21 hours ago, Marinatrix447 said:

“What happens if there is Lab safety protocol fails…?”

SARS Cov 2 happens.

https://project-evidence.github.io/

 

5 hours ago, frenchie said:

Holy shit!  

A sane, reasonable collection of the actual evidence for that theory... instead of the usual batshit-fringe-right-wing-conspiracy-mongering garbage... that even includes debunkings of the unsupported-purely-batshit sub-theories...

In all sincerity: thank you.  That's a rare find, that.

frenchie yes it is good.

This picks up bits of that paper (there maybe even a connection between the two??)  and is very interesting as it looks impartialy at the "Blame China" narrative and also through the US prism of Trump needing an "enemy" as a focus for his election platform to succeed.

Highly recommended.

 

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Rationale for the recent French proposal to employ nicotine in severe Covid-19 cases: https://www.qeios.com/read/FXGQSB.2

The lead author,https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jean-Pierre_Changeux , is no lightweight, nor a sometime wackadoodle like Didier Raoult who recently promoted chloroquine.

If verified, this is good news in that we gain an understanding of why and how this virus can have so many different deleterious effects.  In a peashell, there is good reason to believe that the virus is affecting a second kind of important cellular receptor in addition to ACE-2.  Some members of the nicotinic acetylcholine receptor (nAChR) family of receptors.

The bad news is that after 20-25 years there has been little success in producing safe and effective pharmaceuticals that target this important and very complex class of receptors.   Wikipedia provides a good intro to nAchRs. Complex is probably an understatement.

If Changeux is correct, things are likely more complicated than we thought, particularly regarding treatments.

 

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of boredom, of all things...

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As I stated some many weeks back, if you don’t get antivirals in fast, the sooner the better – it’s game over for the old, immune weakened and vulnerable. Once you’ve sat at home for two weeks like a lemming… antivirals are past there most useful viral kill date.


Here are two excellent charts from EVMS that demonstrate why:

EVMS_Critical_Care_COVID-19_Protocol-2.jpg.0d7a62166eb172e848a0428a05faef4e.jpg

EVMS_Critical_Care_COVID-19_Protocol-4.jpg.749aaaa2bcef0f8ba191a73e91cc3c79.jpg


BTW, if had a loved one that had crashed and been moved to ICU, I’d do everything possible to keep them off being intubated… a contract nurse explains why:

 

 

 

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37 minutes ago, Marinatrix447 said:

BTW, if had a loved one that had crashed and been moved to ICU, I’d do everything possible to keep them off being intubated… a contract nurse explains why:

 



The answer is here in this threads OP from early last month.

Once sorted intubation mortality rates dropped to around 50%. ICU mortality rates are around 50/50. See Table below on UK ConVid ICU data.

Don't know what the date of that ICU Nurse Vid is or how representative it is. However there is anecdotal evidence that the US took longer to catch up to clinical treatment experiences in other countries.

On 4/7/2020 at 9:46 PM, RobG said:

Tonight on Australian TV's 7.30 Report there was an interview with Intensive Care Specialist Professor Hugh Montgomery (search—non AU IP addresses are probably blocked—skip to 24:00). Here is my summary of what he said in regard to comparisons between Covid-19 and the flu, and how it affects your body. The bottom line: currently they know what the disease does (see below), but they don't know how it odes it.

Montgomery said "This is being presented like bad flu and it really isn't. This is as different from flu as Ebola is from an ingrown toenail. This is a very very different disease. You might feel like you have flu … but this is not the same thing."

He goes on to say that patients get progressively short of oxygen as the oxygen levels in their blood fall. They have a "very profound desire to breath that is way beyond what would be driven just by the low levels of oxygen". Some patients aren't even aware of their increased breathing. They are observed to be blue (cyanosed) and panting, yet they're unaware they're unwell at all. This may explain why people appear to become unwell very quickly, e.g. Boris Johnson.

Normally, a viral or bacterial infection of the lung will cause it to fill with fluid and pussy tissue as a consequence of the infection. That isn't what happens with Covid-19. What they are seeing is that there is something wrong with the blood vessels in the lung. Blood is arriving in the lungs full of CO2, then transiting to the arterial side with the same level of CO2. So a lot of the problem seems to be vascular. When they measure clotting in the blood, it's "off the scale abnormal".  There are agents in the blood* that break down clots that are at "stratospheric levels". 

So Covid-19 seems to be a blood and blood vessel disorder, it's just that the symptoms appear to be like pneumonia. To me it seems to operate like carbon monoxide poisoning (though obviously isn't).

He also said that once patients require intubation, about 50% die.

* He seems to say "dezymers" but the closest thing I can find is "D-Dimer" but likely that's just too much detail…

 

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For some perspective on that video you led with... a few reddit comments.

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This what my buddy said about the video and he's in the military working in the hospitals in WA.

"Okay - this is such BS. No hospital and I mean NO HOSPITAL would allow a resident to go in and do chest compressions on a patient who had an active heartbeat. If that did happen, that doc would have been destroyed. Second, he wouldn't be allowed by anyone, without calling a code and having oversight, to defibrillate him. Either she has her facts wrong about his HR (like making it wasn't normal brady, maybe it was v-fib being picked up as a brady on the monitor, but after a DOCTOR reviewed the strip determined it was actually a v-fibrillation.

Second, nurses don't accidentally give novalog in place of lantus anymore. She's pulling this from a textbook case b/c it used to happen all the time when insulin manufacturers put all of their insulin in similar looking bottles. Everyone learns about this case in school at every nursing school. Since then, it would take a near idiot to do this for a few reasons. 1. The bottles aren't labeled the same, aren't the same size, and have to be stored in completely different areas. 2. A nurse cannot give insulin without having a second nurse verify the 5 R's (among them, right medicine)

Next, what is a "critically low blood level"? "When someone is low on blood, like on a critically low blood level" is a statement I expect to come from a 1st year nursing student. How is a person just low on blood without an internal or external bleed? Are they hypovolemic b/c of clotting? diarrhea/vomiting? heat exposure? low intake? renal disease? OD of diuretic? In almost all of these situations, you don't simply give blood as it could exasperate the problem. Hey, let's give someone RBCs who has a clotting problem or renal disease.... But the idiocy of this line frightens me if she is actually a nurse b/c she is using a non-medical term to try an explain a medical condition. The reason it is a non-medical term is because "low blood" could mean SO many different things; most of which don't call for blood product replacement. No, COVID patients don't all eventually need blood products. They're putting in ET's without verifying the cuff and they don't even have a manometer? That seems EXTREMELY doubtful. I think she's just taking everything that you're supposed to do and check as a nurse and turning it into worst case situation.

AND THEN IN THE MIDDLE OF THIS STRANGE ET CUFF RANT says "and I kept saying, hey you know what, his white blood cell count is steadily...like...ya know, we're having a problem with it. Like, do you want to start some antibiotics? No... does he have a fever. And I said, no he doesn't have a fever. They didn't want to start antibiotics". This again leads me to believe that this person is either a novice or obnoxious and likely both. She really went with a WBC count and asked for abx? SMH. Oh, but he died of pneumonia so she was right? WRONG? First, this story didn't happen... but let's pretend it did. If they had a cuff leak, it would have been indicated on the vent within minutes, not overnight. Second, insurance doesn't even allow for ET tubes without an x-ray to verify within 2 hours (which is why this story is BS and again taken out of a nursing book from school)....but curious how this led to an overnight WBC count that led her to think they needed abx (it didn't) and why, make-believing this happened, did our brilliant nurse recommend abx rather than assume there was an ET cuff problem (mainly b/c those aren't related....but I digress). What a stupid case study she tried to create there.... and he didn't have a fever after an increased WBC that killed him within 24 hours?????

You aren't going to operate a CRRT without training... EVER. Not going to happen. The hospital would kill everyone.

I'm going to go ahead and guess this is going to come out as false. If not, then shut down those hospitals and sue them until they close forever. Also, remove this chick's license. She is moronic."

 

https://www.reddit.com/r/conspiracy_commons/comments/gdpeni/nicole_sirotek/

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I am a retired RN, former ICU RN. Her supposed examples are vague, some outright ignorant. I watch the University of California San Francisco COVID-19 grand rounds every week. A couple of weeks ago they talked about some of the clinical trial medications causing arrhythmia, some potentially lethal. this whistle blower nurse spoke of a nurse using a defibrillator on a patient with a pulse. You can have a pulse with a number of lethal arrhythmias that need the use of a defibrillator to convert them to a normal rhythm. Other comments she made like low blood, means nothing without more context. I would like the chance to talk to her as I think she is either making this up.

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You don’t have to be a CCN to know she’s an absolute loon. There’s another article (talking about nurses traveling to New York) from a week or so ago that mentions she normally works in home health, though does have critical care experience. How convenient that she somehow has been in the spotlight twice in two weeks when thousands of nurses are content quietly going about their business with no fanfare.

 

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I too am a nurse and question the veracity of her statements. I’m a medical surgical nurse and I thought the same thing regarding not transfusing, there’s so much more that goes into that decision. However I do not have any experience with ventilators so I was not certain about her comments related to those. But I did read that the way ventilators are being used is different with Covid patients related to high lung compliance which differs from standard ARDS. So I also thought that maybe her comment about that was off-base. I just know from my experience from working in a hospital that everything is about collaboration, no single person knows the right thing to do in every case people work together as a team to make the best choices for their patients. I do also think that the observations of a nurse from an area of the country that may have a different social make up when you put that same person in the inner city in a poor community Might be similar to this. Not because the people who work in inner-city hospitals are sociopaths, but because they’re working with sicker patients with fewer resources. Another part I thought was interesting was that she said she ran out of a patient’s room to talk to the director of nursing, I have a feeling the director of nursing it’s not just standing around the ICU. It seems to me like she was sending that video to her friends, and that perhaps she was Trying to make herself seem more knowledgeable and more important than she is. (Not that nurses aren’t terribly important to the care of their patients, but they’re part of a team and that always needs to be recognized)

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This women is a nurse im sure, in also sure she's a liar with a narcissitic hero complex.

To put an NG tube in someone's lungs accidentally isn't terribly difficult. The chances of that decrease if its an intubated pt and your placing an OG, but its still possible yes. However, you don't just use all your force to ram a tube in someone, call it a day and start shoving it full of tube feeds. When a nurse places an NG/OG tube, she is supposed to get confirmation the tube is in the correct place ALWAYS before starting feeds. You do that by giving a bolus of air and listening with your stethascope over the stomach for gurgles. Its air, so if your in the lungs you won't cause any huge issues (though it's not great for the lungs). If you don't hear it DONT USE IT! Alternatively you can fill a cup with water and place the tip of the tube in it. If air bubbles come out then your in the lungs. If you're unsure whether you hear a gurgle you find someone else to listen for it. If you're really in an ICU an NG tube in the lungs causes a visible desat on the bedside monitor that even a new nurse would know means "oh, I just put that NG in their lungs". And every pt in the ICU is on the monitor. And every monitor alarms when a desat happens, so you can't "just miss it". And every monitor correlates real time to another main monitor at the nurses station, where an audible alarm also will go off, showing the pt desating. Any nurse able to nearby would intervine to see if that nurse needs help and if her pt is okay. However it is technically possible that a terrible nurse could place a tube in someone's lung, then ignore every bit of commen sense and training and put tube feed in someone's lungs, and yeah they would probably die from that. But so much mismanagement has to happen for that to happen that id be absolutely shocked. But, it is theoretically possible.

( . . . )

All medications have to be scanned before given. Most hospitals want a 95% or higher of all meds given be scanned meds. Hospitals track that like a hawk, and whether your a traveler or staff it doesn't matter. That's how medical accidents happen. You scan the pt armband first (the first check making sure you have the right pt), then the medication. If it's not due then or the wrong medication you do not give it. You fix the issue. If you need to give NPH you scan it and immediately draw it up in the syringe. Every nurse has had drilled into them the 5 rights of medication bc if they mess up then people die. Right patient, right medication, right dose, right time, right route. Even if you don't scan you know the rights and the dangers of nursing without following them. And again, yes it is possible if someone, especially a critically ill pt, gets 30units of Humalog that can die from hypoglycemia. But again, the unit is full of other nurses. People make mistakes, and that one is scarily easy to make. Hypoglycemia can cause pts to code. When you code a pt you check their blood sugar. D50 is kept in crash carts for a reason. Once you fix the precipitating cause of code your chances of getting the person back increase exponentially. Yes they will properly suffer ill effects from having their heart stop but there is interventions to fix that mistake. Even if they don't code, your next sugar will be incredibly low, or as a ICU nurse who knows you just gave insulin and see a change in status (hypotension, bradycardia) you know to check the blood sugar. Especially if you made an honest mistake in giving the wrong insulin. Hypoglycemia is 100% always fixable with D50.

Incubating a pt is a very stressful procedure. Ir is possible to intubate only one bronchial stem, and it is possible a pt would die if that is left untreated. Here's what happens when a pt is intubated. There is a team of people in the room. Normally two physicians, a respiratory therapist or two,, that pts nurse, and almost always another nurse or two. ICU nurses are terribly nosey and love being in the action, if someone is getting intubated and you're not their nurse, but youre not busy then you are in the room assisting. First a relaxing or sedating drug is given IV push. Then, a paralytic. Once the pts jaw becomes relaxed, the physician places the ET tube. Once it is in the lungs, the respritory therapist takes a stethoscope and listens to both lungs. All others in the room asses to see if chest rise and fall is symmetrical. If air is only heard on one side, or the chest is asymmetrical, than an intervention occurs immediately. A chest Xray isn't needed to confirm that. The physician will correct that mistake. They will listen, no matter who you are, if you say you think its only inflating one lung. There can be bad apples in the medical field that could miss or refuse to fix a mistake like that. But in a room of at least 5 people, I'd never ever believe that ALL 5 of them care so little about a pt they are actively trying to save that they think, "ah, we've done all this work we didn't have to to attempt to save this pt. We've possibly done it wrong, but oh well! My parts done, peace out!". No. Never would I believe that happens. On the insane off chance the intubating physician refuses to act, the other provider or the RT can intervine and correct the issue. If you need Xray confirmation and they are taking to long then someone will grab an ultrasound machine.

Absolutely no place has a 100% mortality rate. If it did what she's saying is true bc you would have to be actively killing people to achieve that. People are saying "numbers don't lie" but the number is a lie. You would need almost every nurse, every tech, every respiratory therapist, every NP, every PA, and every physician to want people to die for that to happen. These people who are risking their lives, their families live, giving up their time and traveling to NYC aren't doing it to kill people. They aren't doing it for glory either. You tell 90% of the travel nurses in NYC that they are "a hero" they feel uncomfortable, they don't see themselves as heros saving the day. They are just doing their job and going where they are needed. They don't want to be called heros. They don't want to be celebrated. They want to give the best care in the worst scenarios. They want to heal and help.

What upsets me so much about this is her narcissistic attitude that she is the only nurse out of EVERYONE else who even remotely cares about life. That she is the sole hero, and always correct. Yes medical mistakes happen, but almost every single healthcare worker fights tooth and nail to prevent that. Everyone who has no medical knowledge believes her bc her testimony is so heart wrenching, and she uses enough medical terms to sound like she knows what she's talking about. And they look at the hospital firing her as proof what she's saying is true. No. There is no conspiracy to kill patients. There is no conspiracy where in report nurses say, ahh, a black man, a shame we must kill him. There is no conspiracy that medical professionals are all actively doing difficult tasks and procedures just to kill all of their patients. There is no unit in the US with a 100% death rate, even with COVID. I could go on for hours. This is very upsetting to me and I hope the truth, the full truth untwisted, comes to light.

 

https://www.reddit.com/r/LouderWithCrowder/comments/gde2cp/whistleblower_tearful_nurse_gives_testimony_on/

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1 hour ago, frenchie said:

Good find Frenchie  She might have some attention issues.

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Mikey is posting the same shit.

Blaming the doctors for killing people, not Trump.

How fucking evil can these cunts get?

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Yeah, Cuomo mentioned this in one of the recent briefings; NY is teaming up with the CDC to try to get a handle on WTF the risk factors might even be... but they're comparing it to Septic Shock as well as Kawasaki's.  For now it's "pediatric multisystem inflammatory syndrome potentially associated with COVID-19".

https://www1.nyc.gov/assets/doh/downloads/pdf/han/alert/2020/covid-19-pediatric-multi-system-inflammatory-syndrome.pdf

https://dmna.ny.gov/covid19/docs/all/DOH_COVID19_PediatricInflammatorySyndrome_050620.pdf

https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2020/05/07/851725443/mystery-inflammatory-syndrome-in-kids-and-teens-likely-linked-to-covid-19

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The how CoVid kills you according to your job.

Stats just out from the UK...but with caveat of around a 60%+ under count on CoVid deaths between "excess mortality" stats and having shown on Death Certificate has having tested positive for CoVid in a country with shit testing.  

Security guards, workers in food processing plants, transport/taxi drivers the occupations facing the highest death rates. 

Aged Care and Social care workers face more than 2x the average death rate but death rates among National Health Service workers are in line with the average. This can be explained by large number of NHS staff who don't work on the front line.

Far more men are dying of CoVid see health care and social workers. 

There is less ONS data on female deaths by occupation, but hairdressers face the highest rates:

- hairdressing: 18.1 deaths per 100k
- process plant workers: 15.6
- social care workers: 9.6
- female average: 5.2
- health workers: 4.8

Graphs courtesy Ed Conway 

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Difficult to get much from that sort of graph without further context, e.g. sales and marketing professionals are down around 5 but similar jobs like managers in hospitality and leisure are around 26, or 5 times higher. Why are "administrative occupations finance" (whatever that is) at 20 but business and finance professionals around 6? What are the admin people doing that makes them 3 times more likely to die from Covid-19 than the professionals they (apparently) work with?

I think there needs to be an overlay of demographics, particularly age and sex, as well as some analysis such as the number of persons that each job comes into close contact with each day to see what's happening. The health care workers sex breakdown shows how varied it can be within a single profession—why are men dying at 2 to 3 times the rate of women? Is the same ratio seen across all occupations or just in health and social care workers?

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