DtM

Are you kidding ?

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16 minutes ago, Female Canine Firestorm said:

Your problem is you are coming at this topic from a mindset that doesn't include the concept of the 2nd Amendment to the US Big C.  The 2A is not about hunting or varmints or even target shooting for sport. 

I'm going to say something that will make you cringe.  The 2A IS about killing people.  The right kinds of people, obviously, and within the confines of what is legal use of force.  i.e. Those that are either trying to do you or someone near to you personal harm (self-defense, defense of others) or someone that is trying to do harm to the country (militia).  Therefore military or police "style" weapons are actually THE most constitutional sort of firearm that comports with the intent of the 2A.  Bolt action hunting rifles, double barreled shotguns for bird hunting, .22s for varmints, etc. actually are (or should be) the least protected or justifiable weapons in citizen's hands.  For the exact same reason patrol officers carry pistols with high capacity magazines is precisely why it should be lawful for citizens to own them.  Because self-protection and protection of others or jumping in to assist your nation in a time of need likely requires more than 1 or 2 shots to be effective.  

So please, with all due respect - stop using the hunting analogy when discussing this subject.  That may be the case in NZ, but its not here.  Like it or not, until the 2A is changed or repealed - THAT is the purpose for the right to own gunz here in the US of A.  

Seems like you making a case to better recognise the "well regulated" part of the clause......

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8 minutes ago, Ease the sheet. said:

Seems like you making a case to better recognise the "well regulated" part of the clause......

I always have been.  I've been an advocate for better training and equipping from the earliest days here.  

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"Some of them are probably good people."

Seriously, what are the point of the guns?  You're already out.  If the cops show up to disperse you are you going to stand your ground?  Let's see how that goes.  Really, let's all watch.

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6 hours ago, Olsonist said:

In fact, the practical arguments have nothing to do with the 2A.

Sure they do. US v Miller:

Quote

 

The sentiment of the time strongly disfavored standing armies; the common view was that adequate defense of country and laws could be secured through the Militia -- civilians primarily, soldiers on occasion.

The signification attributed to the term Militia appears from the debates in the Convention, the history and legislation of Colonies and States, and the writings of approved commentators. These show plainly enough that the Militia comprised all males physically capable of acting in concert for the common defense. "A body of citizens enrolled for military discipline." And further, that ordinarily, when called for service these men were expected to appear bearing arms supplied by themselves and of the kind in common use at the time.

 

"The People" are civilians primarily and the arms "supplied by themselves and of the kind in common use at the time" are in common use for practical purposes unrelated to militia service. And yes, self defense has always been regarded as one of those purposes.

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On 4/16/2020 at 11:28 PM, hasher said:

I guess you are not surprised that is my cousin and friends.

They think I'm the bad blood.

Hey wait jus a minute - I think you are by brother.  My in laws are like that because . .  

see below 

On 4/17/2020 at 5:00 PM, floating dutchman said:

This just seems such a foreign concept to me.  If you tried that shit here in NZ hell would break lose.

I think what you really want to ask is why us USAeand are so bat-shit crazy. 

It is the hate media - and I have seen it in Aotearoa as well. 

Ignore it at your peril. 

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12 hours ago, chinabald said:

designated Assault weapon by who? The media? The characteristics that some use in blanket form to label some guns assault weapons is the basis behind Tom’s ever popular dogballs ranting. 

There's already endless talk of "military" weapons in this thread. One guy shows up and says, "If you read what they propose and vote for, they mean ordinary .22's" and it's the end of the fucking world.

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2 minutes ago, Steganographic Tom said:

There's already endless talk of "military" weapons in this thread. One guy shows up and says, "If you read what they propose and vote for, they mean ordinary .22's" and it's the end of the fucking world.

I'm still waiting to see what an "extraordinary .22" looks like.  

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6 hours ago, SloopJonB said:

No rational person has any problem with that sort of gun ownership. We have quite a bit of it here.

So I guess irrational Canucks are responsible for your .22 magazine confiscation program?

Maybe that's why none of the wise Canadians here have any interest in discussing it. Just as I have no interest in copying such an irrational program here in our country. No, not even if Aussies do it too.

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2 minutes ago, Female Canine Firestorm said:

I'm still waiting to see what an "extraordinary .22" looks like.  

Well, there is that Ugly one that CF posted in the GA thread. It is extraordinarily ugly.

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1 minute ago, Steganographic Tom said:

Well, there is that Ugly one that CF posted in the GA thread. It is extraordinarily ugly.

yep

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On 4/17/2020 at 1:10 PM, floating dutchman said:

How are people allowed to just walk around with automatic weapons in public?

anywhere else in the world this would be a valid question .

welcome to 'merica

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44 minutes ago, Steganographic Tom said:

There's already endless talk of "military" weapons in this thread. One guy shows up and says, "If you read what they propose and vote for, they mean ordinary .22's" and it's the end of the fucking world.

image.jpeg.3828e72ecd267254add87c9246b0668d.jpeg

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5 hours ago, Female Canine Firestorm said:

And yet these cars are racing "style" cars.

super-cars.jpg

Should they be illegal on public roads because they look like race cars?

As far as taking one point to the exclusion of others, I agree with you that the discussion about gun control and regulation is a very complex topic with many facets.  But unfortunately - it is precisely because US lawmakers ARE taking that one point about "military style" and attempting to ban entire classes of legal guns with that broad brush that pisses us all off so much and shuts the discussion down.  

I am a gun owner and a PROponent of sensible gun regulations.  But the topic of gun crime in the US has been so politicized and has become so silly that there can be no rational discussion about it anymore.  The comments on this thread are proof of that.  

Uh, none of those look like racecars. Those are overweight street poseur mobiles. “Real” race cars have far more aggressive aero

what’s the harm in saying what these douchebags did was legal, but a bad look? Why can’t you say that? Why cant gunnuts police themselves?

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53 minutes ago, Steganographic Tom said:

So I guess irrational Canucks are responsible for your .22 magazine confiscation program?

Maybe that's why none of the wise Canadians here have any interest in discussing it. Just as I have no interest in copying such an irrational program here in our country. No, not even if Aussies do it too.

"Pfleiderer said the RCMP does not maintain statistics on how many such magazines have been seized, and referred questions about any charges laid to the federal Justice Department, which declined comment. Bernardo said he knows of no CSSA members who have been charged with possessing a large-capacity 10/22 magazine.

 

But Ottawa defence lawyer Solomon Friedman, who often takes clients in gun control cases, said he's had three such cases in the last year.

"It's apparent to me that the Crown does not have an appetite to prosecute them," he said in an interview. "The RCMP's legal opinion is wrong.

"Every gun owner that I know has these magazines.""

 

 

Looks like its really a Canadian nothing burger. 

Do Americans really need a massive capacity magazine?

Whats your point?

 

 

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2 hours ago, Mismoyled Jiblet. said:

Uh, none of those look like racecars. Those are overweight street poseur mobiles.

Ummm... the Koenigsegg (top left) is the fastest road car in the world - 278 MPH.

Name 6 road race cars that can do that.

Quite a pose.

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2 hours ago, Keith said:

"Pfleiderer said the RCMP does not maintain statistics on how many such magazines have been seized, and referred questions about any charges laid to the federal Justice Department, which declined comment. Bernardo said he knows of no CSSA members who have been charged with possessing a large-capacity 10/22 magazine.

 

But Ottawa defence lawyer Solomon Friedman, who often takes clients in gun control cases, said he's had three such cases in the last year.

"It's apparent to me that the Crown does not have an appetite to prosecute them," he said in an interview. "The RCMP's legal opinion is wrong.

"Every gun owner that I know has these magazines.""

 

 

Looks like its really a Canadian nothing burger. 

Do Americans really need a massive capacity magazine?

Whats your point?

 

 

Aw, Jeez, this again? Can't Tom just shoot his fucking foot off and be done with it?

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16 minutes ago, SloopJonB said:

Ummm... the Koenigsegg (top left) is the fastest road car in the world - 278 MPH.

Name 6 road race cars that can do that.

Quite a pose.

I'm pretty sure the Veyron is pretty fucking fast at 254 mph too.

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The boys posing with their guns and swastika placards didn't actually fire any shots, did they?

I assume they assembled, posed for the cameras, did a bit of shouting and went home.

If a real gunfight broke out, most would run like hell while pissing themselves, and a few would start wildly shooting at nothing while shouting and pissing themselves.

The real world is not a video game or website.

 

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6 hours ago, Keith said:
7 hours ago, Steganographic Tom said:

So I guess irrational Canucks are responsible for your .22 magazine confiscation program?

Maybe that's why none of the wise Canadians here have any interest in discussing it. Just as I have no interest in copying such an irrational program here in our country. No, not even if Aussies do it too.

"Pfleiderer said the RCMP does not maintain statistics on how many such magazines have been seized, and referred questions about any charges laid to the federal Justice Department, which declined comment. Bernardo said he knows of no CSSA members who have been charged with possessing a large-capacity 10/22 magazine.

 

But Ottawa defence lawyer Solomon Friedman, who often takes clients in gun control cases, said he's had three such cases in the last year.

"It's apparent to me that the Crown does not have an appetite to prosecute them," he said in an interview. "The RCMP's legal opinion is wrong.

"Every gun owner that I know has these magazines.""

 

 

Looks like its really a Canadian nothing burger. 

Do Americans really need a massive capacity magazine?

Whats your point?

Writing a law that makes peaceful people into criminals because they continue to possess their property is not a nothing burger, even if you don't yet enforce them.

Do Canadians really need massive capacity magazines, or why aren't you all enforcing your confiscation program?

My point is that the countries we're supposed to admire do insanely stupid shit, like making peaceful people into criminals because they continue to possess their ordinary .22 magazines. At least you're not as far gone as Australia, where out of control grabbers are going after museum collections, but what's the point of laws that are not enforceable?

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in other news both Japan and Europe are seeing a second wave ...

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What I don’t appreciate about the photo are several factors which paint a sinister use of the weapons they carry.

First, the photo shows in the background that the two are displaying their weapons prominently in front of a public building. They appear to be on guard, protecting the group behind them, and, by visual threat, preventing access of others to the protest beyond.

Secondly, they are apparently in support of a political protest. Tempers rise when politics clash in public, and democracy is based on dialogue, understanding and compromise. These weapons, especially displayed in front of a Swastika, are overtly rejecting all notion of American civic values, and replacing it with symbols brutality, dominance by those willing to kill, and hate.

Third, the weapons are not carried as an afterthought. The entire display is to become used to carrying such items in public, and force others to acknowledge their fear of the very real risks when confronting countering the arguments of these groups in public. Online, they dox countering opponents, insult, deflect and attack. Their public face are numerous instances of NAZI references and chants, and now face masks paired with the type of guns used in many mass shootings held at port arms.

Personally, I think these firearms are being used to deliver a threat. They are not being used in a way that is a protected American right, but in a way that suppressed the rights of others to live in a democracy.

I do not have an argument which could withstand a trial, but I know what I see. This is unAmerican activity wrapped up in a flag.

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22 minutes ago, phillysailor said:

Personally, I think these firearms are being used to deliver a threat.

Absolutely

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35 minutes ago, phillysailor said:

What I don’t appreciate about the photo are several factors which paint a sinister use of the weapons they carry.

First, the photo shows in the background that the two are displaying their weapons prominently in front of a public building. They appear to be on guard, protecting the group behind them, and, by visual threat, preventing access of others to the protest beyond.

Secondly, they are apparently in support of a political protest. Tempers rise when politics clash in public, and democracy is based on dialogue, understanding and compromise. These weapons, especially displayed in front of a Swastika, are overtly rejecting all notion of American civic values, and replacing it with symbols brutality, dominance by those willing to kill, and hate.

Third, the weapons are not carried as an afterthought. The entire display is to become used to carrying such items in public, and force others to acknowledge their fear of the very real risks when confronting countering the arguments of these groups in public. Online, they dox countering opponents, insult, deflect and attack. Their public face are numerous instances of NAZI references and chants, and now face masks paired with the type of guns used in many mass shootings held at port arms.

Personally, I think these firearms are being used to deliver a threat. They are not being used in a way that is a protected American right, but in a way that suppressed the rights of others to live in a democracy.

I do not have an argument which could withstand a trial, but I know what I see. This is unAmerican activity wrapped up in a flag.

Thank you for articulating (in a way that I could not) my thoughts in making the original post.

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1 hour ago, phillysailor said:

What I don’t appreciate about the photo are several factors which paint a sinister use of the weapons they carry.

First, the photo shows in the background that the two are displaying their weapons prominently in front of a public building. They appear to be on guard, protecting the group behind them, and, by visual threat, preventing access of others to the protest beyond.

Secondly, they are apparently in support of a political protest. Tempers rise when politics clash in public, and democracy is based on dialogue, understanding and compromise. These weapons, especially displayed in front of a Swastika, are overtly rejecting all notion of American civic values, and replacing it with symbols brutality, dominance by those willing to kill, and hate.

Third, the weapons are not carried as an afterthought. The entire display is to become used to carrying such items in public, and force others to acknowledge their fear of the very real risks when confronting countering the arguments of these groups in public. Online, they dox countering opponents, insult, deflect and attack. Their public face are numerous instances of NAZI references and chants, and now face masks paired with the type of guns used in many mass shootings held at port arms.

Personally, I think these firearms are being used to deliver a threat. They are not being used in a way that is a protected American right, but in a way that suppressed the rights of others to live in a democracy.

I do not have an argument which could withstand a trial, but I know what I see. This is unAmerican activity wrapped up in a flag.

Good call sir. Further, this behavior may pose a clear and present danger in a novel way, imo.

Of course everyone is a expert. Yesterday, Fakenews offered that gun owners had no balls. No cite, of course. Another opinion delivered as chiseled in stone.

AJ Oliver, self-styled "widely published" sage of Sandusky, knows beyond reasonable doubt [reason being key here] that all these gun owners are chickenshit scaredycats. Pussies and wussies all.

Not to be left out, that little continent that hates all things America, chose Happy as spokesperson:

 

5 hours ago, Happy said:

The boys posing with their guns and swastika placards didn't actually fire any shots, did they?

I assume they assembled, posed for the cameras, did a bit of shouting and went home.

If a real gunfight broke out, most would run like hell while pissing themselves, and a few would start wildly shooting at nothing while shouting and pissing themselves.

The real world is not a video game or website.

 

Nope, it isn't. And this assessment is totally wrong. These boys are itching for a fight. Their entire personalities are wrapped up in gun-totin'. These boys are the baddest of bad asses. Their elk will go to prison before backing off. It's a real mistake to think these boys will piss their pants in fear, and even if they do, they'll be shooting full auto til they're out. 

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On 4/17/2020 at 5:00 PM, floating dutchman said:

OK, so not an automatic weapon, I'm not exactly a gun nut.  So what.

So in anybody in America allowed to walk around with a (loaded?) military style fire arm?

And everybody is happy about this?

This just seems such a foreign concept to me.  If you tried that shit here in NZ hell would break lose.

It's a military style weapon because the design was commissioned by the military; a competition after the Korean war. And it was/is used by the military in Vietnam and beyond.

It had design criteria like "pierce a metal helmet at 300 yards', 'ballistics to cause the most damage to the human body', and 'allow a soldier to carry lots of ammo'.

The automatic version doesn't look any different than the 'normal' version.  Just a few internal changes, and it's not that difficult to do. (but illegal)

Not everybody is happy about it.  But there are just too many guns and too many people with their heels dug in to do anything about it. 

The Michigan Mullitia is not a 'well regulated militia', it's almost a branch of the KKK.

 

 

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On 4/17/2020 at 10:24 PM, chinabald said:

What makes it a military style fire arm?  Does the color and shape of a gun make it more or less dangerous?
 

Why don’t you cut to the chase and just ask what you really want to ask. 

Oh no, we're entering Tom's dogballs discussion.

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On 4/18/2020 at 7:34 AM, phill_nz said:

and the fact they are designated assault rifles

Are they?

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2 minutes ago, mad said:

Oh no, we're entering Tom's dogballs discussion.

I don't write the bans on (assault weapons, ordinary .22's) and don't see what's wrong with discussing what the mainstream TeamD politicians actually want to ban. Why is reading and commenting on gun bans wrong?

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13 minutes ago, Blue Crab said:

Nope, it isn't. And this assessment is totally wrong. These boys are itching for a fight. Their entire personalities are wrapped up in gun-totin'. These boys are the baddest of bad asses. Their elk will go to prison before backing off. It's a real mistake to think these boys will piss their pants in fear, and even if they do, they'll be shooting full auto til they're out. 

And you know this how?

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13 minutes ago, Blue Crab said:

These boys are itching for a fight. Their entire personalities are wrapped up in gun-totin'. These boys are the baddest of bad asses. Their elk will go to prison before backing off. It's a real mistake to think these boys will piss their pants in fear, and even if they do, they'll be shooting full auto til they're out. 

Full auto weapons are only for rich people these days, not that there's anything racist and regressive about that, but those guys are probably not carrying anything that valuable.

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1 minute ago, mad said:
On 4/18/2020 at 2:34 AM, phill_nz said:

and the fact they are designated assault rifles

Are they?

If you actually read the bans that do the designating, or at least tolerated discussion by those of us who do, you would know the answer to your question is yes.

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10 hours ago, Steganographic Tom said:

Well, there is that Ugly one that CF posted in the GA thread. It is extraordinarily ugly.

No arguing with that comment....5.jpg

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1 hour ago, phillysailor said:

What I don’t appreciate about the photo are several factors which paint a sinister use of the weapons they carry.

First, the photo shows in the background that the two are displaying their weapons prominently in front of a public building. They appear to be on guard, protecting the group behind them, and, by visual threat, preventing access of others to the protest beyond.

Secondly, they are apparently in support of a political protest. Tempers rise when politics clash in public, and democracy is based on dialogue, understanding and compromise. These weapons, especially displayed in front of a Swastika, are overtly rejecting all notion of American civic values, and replacing it with symbols brutality, dominance by those willing to kill, and hate.

Third, the weapons are not carried as an afterthought. The entire display is to become used to carrying such items in public, and force others to acknowledge their fear of the very real risks when confronting countering the arguments of these groups in public. Online, they dox countering opponents, insult, deflect and attack. Their public face are numerous instances of NAZI references and chants, and now face masks paired with the type of guns used in many mass shootings held at port arms.

Personally, I think these firearms are being used to deliver a threat. They are not being used in a way that is a protected American right, but in a way that suppressed the rights of others to live in a democracy.

I do not have an argument which could withstand a trial, but I know what I see. This is unAmerican activity wrapped up in a flag.

A very good summary/appraisal of what is on display. 

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18 minutes ago, Steganographic Tom said:
20 minutes ago, mad said:
On 4/18/2020 at 7:34 AM, phill_nz said:

and the fact they are designated assault rifles

Are they?

If you actually read the bans that do the designating, or at least tolerated discussion by those of us who do, you would know the answer to your question is yes.

I thought it was only the add-ons that made them assault rifles?

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37 minutes ago, Steganographic Tom said:

Full auto weapons are only for rich people these days, not that there's anything racist and regressive about that, but those guys are probably not carrying anything that valuable.

Funny. 

The display weapons are doubtless legal. None of these boys just have one. 

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13 hours ago, Female Canine Firestorm said:

Your problem is you are coming at this topic from a mindset that doesn't include the concept of the 2nd Amendment to the US Big C.  The 2A is not about hunting or varmints or even target shooting for sport. 

 I'm going to say something that will make you cringe.  The 2A IS about killing people.  The right kinds of people, obviously, and within the confines of what is legal use of force.  i.e. Those that are either trying to do you or someone near to you personal harm (self-defense, defense of others) or someone that is trying to do harm to the country (militia).  Therefore military or police "style" weapons are actually THE most constitutional sort of firearm that comports with the intent of the 2A.  Bolt action hunting rifles, double barreled shotguns for bird hunting, .22s for varmints, etc. actually are (or should be) the least protected or justifiable weapons in citizen's hands.  For the exact same reason patrol officers carry pistols with high capacity magazines is precisely why it should be lawful for citizens to own them.  Because self-protection and protection of others or jumping in to assist your nation in a time of need likely requires more than 1 or 2 shots to be effective.  

So please, with all due respect - stop using the hunting analogy when discussing this subject.  That may be the case in NZ, but its not here.  Like it or not, until the 2A is changed or repealed - THAT is the purpose for the right to own gunz here in the US of A.  

 

12 hours ago, Steganographic Tom said:

Sure they do. US v Miller:

"The People" are civilians primarily and the arms "supplied by themselves and of the kind in common use at the time" are in common use for practical purposes unrelated to militia service. And yes, self defense has always been regarded as one of those purposes.

Yawn.

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36 minutes ago, view at the front said:

The herd seems to be self-culling?

Definitely looking that way, strange that Trump is supporting exactly the actions that will reduce the number of votes for him in November. :wacko:

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47 minutes ago, Blue Crab said:Funny. 

The display weapons are doubtless legal. None of these boys just have one. 

I wouldn’t be surprised if one or more of those ‘turds own a converted non-legal weapon. For all TediousToms bullshitting about guns & 3D printing and the divine right of owning an automatic, he really doesn’t seem to know much.

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Just now, Mismoyled Jiblet. said:

I wouldn’t be surprised if one or more of those ‘turds own a converted non-legal weapon. For all TediousToms bullshitting about guns & 3D printing and the divine right of owning an automatic, he really doesn’t seem to know much.

That’s a very distinct possibility, I wonder how many are being converted as I type this? 

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13 hours ago, Female Canine Firestorm said:

Your problem is you are coming at this topic from a mindset that doesn't include the concept of the 2nd Amendment to the US Big C.  The 2A is not about hunting or varmints or even target shooting for sport. 

I'm going to say something that will make you cringe.  The 2A IS about killing people.  The right kinds of people, obviously, and within the confines of what is legal use of force.  i.e. Those that are either trying to do you or someone near to you personal harm (self-defense, defense of others) or someone that is trying to do harm to the country (militia).  Therefore military or police "style" weapons are actually THE most constitutional sort of firearm that comports with the intent of the 2A.  Bolt action hunting rifles, double barreled shotguns for bird hunting, .22s for varmints, etc. actually are (or should be) the least protected or justifiable weapons in citizen's hands.  For the exact same reason patrol officers carry pistols with high capacity magazines is precisely why it should be lawful for citizens to own them.  Because self-protection and protection of others or jumping in to assist your nation in a time of need likely requires more than 1 or 2 shots to be effective.  

So please, with all due respect - stop using the hunting analogy when discussing this subject.  That may be the case in NZ, but its not here.  Like it or not, until the 2A is changed or repealed - THAT is the purpose for the right to own gunz here in the US of A.  

Jesus mother fucking Christ, you are an imbecilic fuckwit.

Here is your fucking precious 2A:

"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed." 

Did you read it?  Did your fucking lips move while you read the big words?

Now listen up asswipe, is there anything in there about 'Those that are either trying to do you or someone near to you personal harm (self-defense, defense of others)"?  No  asswipe, I didn't see it either.  And I don't see anything there about large capacity magazines or any other fantasy fucking BS you alcohol riddled brain can think of you pustulent ignoramus.

So what the fuck are you doing, rewriting the Constitution to suit your own needs?  Look you needle dicked bug fucker, it isn't my fault that you love your metal phallic symbols.  It isn't my fault you can't adequately satisfy the sexual needs of your British wife.  It isn't my fault you can't understand one simple fucking sentence that doesn't say anything about the sentence of yours I quoted above.

Ans while I'm at it you fucked up mercenary piece of dried up shit, spelling guns 'gunz' is about as spelling cool 'kool'.  You stupid ass juvenile, sexist mother fucking pig. 

Jesus Christ, you are probably the most ignorant cocksucker on this site, which doesn't have a shortage of ignorant cocksuckers.  I am tired of you, your idiotic posts, your stupidity, your pseudo intellectual narcissism and anything else that I haven't thought of at the moment.  

Do me a favor cum breath, PM me your address.  I'm coming to the states in the summer or whenever I can travel there.  I will happily meet you and take every one of your precious gunz, and happily shove them up your ass.  And no, that isn't a threat of violence, because I know you would nothing better than to have your precious in such an intimate place.  

Holy fucking shit, it's truly amazing how some fucking idiots can survive into adulthood.  You fucking piece of shit.  Fuck off and get the fuck off my lawn you sorry sad sacked limp dicked lump of assorted miscarried detritus.

And in case I wasn't clear, fuck off.

Oh, and please don't take offense at anything I said above, it's just my opinion after all.  Fuckwad.

 

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1 hour ago, view at the front said:

The herd seems to be self-culling?

Not fast enough

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24 minutes ago, mad said:

That’s a very distinct possibility, I wonder how many are being converted as I type this? 

Even a caveman can do it.

This Geico Caveman Is Gorgeous In Real Life - YouTube

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3 hours ago, phillysailor said:

Third, the weapons are not carried as an afterthought. The entire display is to become used to carrying such items in public, and force others to acknowledge their fear of the very real risks when confronting countering the arguments of these groups in public. Online, they dox countering opponents, insult, deflect and attack. Their public face are numerous instances of NAZI references and chants, and now face masks paired with the type of guns used in many mass shootings held at port arms.

Personally, I think these firearms are being used to deliver a threat. They are not being used in a way that is a protected American right, but in a way that suppressed the rights of others to live in a democracy.

Bingo!

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5 minutes ago, Remodel said:
3 hours ago, phillysailor said:

Personally, I think these firearms are being used to deliver a threat. They are not being used in a way that is a protected American right, but in a way that suppressed the rights of others to live in a democracy.

Bingo!

Agreed, but it's a form of cosplay. They're just like kids playing cowboys and indians only with real guns, and they don't know who the indians are.

Doesn't make it any less dangerous. I believe the most likely result of this bunch trying to "liberate" anything (and that doesn't include the knowledge of "liberate" being the verb form of the root word "liberal") would be that a bunch of them would shoot each other.

Also none of them appear to have shooting gloves on. The ones wearing their manly work gloves would be a bit hampered

- DSK

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d' -- I live among them. 

The scariest thing about Ed's rant is that it's becoming a new norm. In the last 30 days or so, idiot AJ has had internet issues with Clean, AGITC, someone else and me. That's one guy per week. Guy was thinking of going the next day. AJ puffed up and wanted Clean's personal info -- and he got it! I forget the other one. Then AJ did some backpedaling with his bad knee, shoulder ... like the rest of us old farts are young warriors. AJ is playing a dangerous game that I suspect he can't back up. His drunk posting will come home to roost. 

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5 minutes ago, Blue Crab said:

In the last 30 days or so, idiot AJ has had internet issues

Having him on my ever increasing ignore list helped immensely., 

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5 hours ago, Steganographic Tom said:

but what's the point of laws that are not enforceable?

Oh come on Tommy - you know the answer to that!  It's to make the person or party who proposed and/or passed the law look good because they "DID SOMETHING!"

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7 minutes ago, Blue Crab said:

d' -- I live among them. 

The scariest thing about Ed's rant is that it's becoming a new norm. In the last 30 days or so, idiot AJ has had internet issues with Clean, AGITC, someone else and me. That's one guy per week. Guy was thinking of going the next day. AJ puffed up and wanted Clean's personal info -- and he got it! I forget the other one. Then AJ did some backpedaling with his bad knee, shoulder ... like the rest of us old farts are young warriors. AJ is playing a dangerous game that I suspect he can't back up. His drunk posting will come home to roost. 

No argument there - events like this will always result in some coming unhinged and this is no normal event. The point tho was the guys brandishing their manly weapons would go full auto - and I say no since it's one thing to walk around all billybadass and blast away at targets and quite another to stand up when you are shot at - and likely with bigger and badder stuff.  This is based in part on those I know here who have stockpiled enough shit to stand off the coming zombie apocalypse - which is cool since zombies have yet managed to master using weapons.  

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I can't help but feel the US' maniacal fervour over their 'rights' will be their death knell,  as the once admirable interpretation of an individuals  'rights' have now become displaced by personal greed and pigheaded selfishness.  

The constitution was a document written 240 fucking years ago by humans, as imperfect as we are. Humanity had just invented...gasp..the hot air balloon. Cars were still 100 years in the future.

Yet some act like it was hand delivered by the Gods.       

Fuck your personal greed 'rights'. Ever heard of common sense? 

 

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4 hours ago, phillysailor said:

What I don’t appreciate about the photo are several factors which paint a sinister use of the weapons they carry.

First, the photo shows in the background that the two are displaying their weapons prominently in front of a public building. They appear to be on guard, protecting the group behind them, and, by visual threat, preventing access of others to the protest beyond.

Secondly, they are apparently in support of a political protest. Tempers rise when politics clash in public, and democracy is based on dialogue, understanding and compromise. These weapons, especially displayed in front of a Swastika, are overtly rejecting all notion of American civic values, and replacing it with symbols brutality, dominance by those willing to kill, and hate.

Third, the weapons are not carried as an afterthought. The entire display is to become used to carrying such items in public, and force others to acknowledge their fear of the very real risks when confronting countering the arguments of these groups in public. Online, they dox countering opponents, insult, deflect and attack. Their public face are numerous instances of NAZI references and chants, and now face masks paired with the type of guns used in many mass shootings held at port arms.

Personally, I think these firearms are being used to deliver a threat. They are not being used in a way that is a protected American right, but in a way that suppressed the rights of others to live in a democracy.

I do not have an argument which could withstand a trial, but I know what I see. This is unAmerican activity wrapped up in a flag.

Philly, I somewhat agree with you on this.  However, I think you are overblowing the use of the nazi swastika in the OP photo.  I had to go back and look at the pic again because I didn't recall seeing any Nazi flags like you would see in a white supremacist rally.  Unless I missed others - the ONLY swastika was on the sign that said Heil Whitmer.  "As in the governor is being a nazi for locking us all up".  That's a legitimate protest sign and in no way confers the group protesting are Nazis themselves.  If you see it differently, I'm willing to discuss.  

I do agree however that the display of guns is more of a sentry standing guard over the protesters.  I don't like it and I do think it does some of what you describe in terms of stifling counter speech... to a point.  I personally wish they wouldn't bring rifles to a protest in front of a gov't building.  However, I don't think it goes as far as you think it does.  Given the propensity for groups like Antifa to use violence to disrupt free speech, I don't think it's out of the realm of thinking that they may draw some similar counter-protests.  I have a HUGE problem with anyone using violence on any side to disrupt free speech.  These guys have as much right to gather and demonstrate as anyone - although I think they are being asinine to do it in the middle of a pandemic.  But I'm a firm believer in Darwinism, so it will eventually sort itself out.  

But in any event, it's a sad commentary that in America it requires two guys to stand guard with "military style" weapons in order to have a peaceful demonstration.  I'm a firm believer in everyone gets a voice - even if it's disgusting speech I don't agree with.  Yes, even Nazis should be allowed to demonstrate peacefully without fear of being attacked by antifa.  The police have sure as frack not seemed to be very good at keeping antifa from cracking skulls, so I get why there might be some need for intimidating images of guys with guns protecting a peaceful gathering.  These guys in MI are not Nazis, but I'm trying to make sure you understand that all groups of whatever bent are allowed their say in our democracy.  The counter to that is to use peaceful speech to give a better message, not to crack heads when you don't like the speech.  I'm more than happy for antifa to line up on the other side of the street and drown them out.  Or surround them like the guardian bikers do at vets funerals to keep out the WBC cunts.  Violence is never the SOLution, but if a counter group is known to use it, and the Po-Leece are feckless and ineffective to stop the violence, then I have no issue with citizens arming up to protect their rights.  I wish it would never come to that.  But we are there.  

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2 hours ago, mad said:

A very good summary/appraisal of what is on display. 

But not totally accurate.

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1 minute ago, Female Canine Firestorm said:

But not totally accurate.

I'd still put it in the high percentages.  

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1 hour ago, Ed Lada said:

Jesus mother fucking Christ, you are an imbecilic fuckwit.

Here is your fucking precious 2A:

"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed." 

Did you read it?  Did your fucking lips move while you read the big words?

Now listen up asswipe, is there anything in there about 'Those that are either trying to do you or someone near to you personal harm (self-defense, defense of others)"?  No  asswipe, I didn't see it either.  And I don't see anything there about large capacity magazines or any other fantasy fucking BS you alcohol riddled brain can think of you pustulent ignoramus.

So what the fuck are you doing, rewriting the Constitution to suit your own needs?  Look you needle dicked bug fucker, it isn't my fault that you love your metal phallic symbols.  It isn't my fault you can't adequately satisfy the sexual needs of your British wife.  It isn't my fault you can't understand one simple fucking sentence that doesn't say anything about the sentence of yours I quoted above.

Ans while I'm at it you fucked up mercenary piece of dried up shit, spelling guns 'gunz' is about as spelling cool 'kool'.  You stupid ass juvenile, sexist mother fucking pig. 

Jesus Christ, you are probably the most ignorant cocksucker on this site, which doesn't have a shortage of ignorant cocksuckers.  I am tired of you, your idiotic posts, your stupidity, your pseudo intellectual narcissism and anything else that I haven't thought of at the moment.  

Do me a favor cum breath, PM me your address.  I'm coming to the states in the summer or whenever I can travel there.  I will happily meet you and take every one of your precious gunz, and happily shove them up your ass.  And no, that isn't a threat of violence, because I know you would nothing better than to have your precious in such an intimate place.  

Holy fucking shit, it's truly amazing how some fucking idiots can survive into adulthood.  You fucking piece of shit.  Fuck off and get the fuck off my lawn you sorry sad sacked limp dicked lump of assorted miscarried detritus.

And in case I wasn't clear, fuck off.

Oh, and please don't take offense at anything I said above, it's just my opinion after all.  Fuckwad.

 

The truth hurts, doesn't it Edward?  Your triggered (see what I did there?:lol:) response is not good for your heart.  

And I think you should direct your ire at the SCOTUS.  They have determined that gunz are legal for self-defense.  

And I'm happy for you to come visit.  I'd rather sit down with you and share some good red wine or a nice single malt.  But if you're still insistent on being violent, we can do that dance too.  Your call.  

Just saying.

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9 minutes ago, Female Canine Firestorm said:

But not totally accurate.

If it were any other group you’d be having a conniption fit. This is where you aren’t “middle of the road”.

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40 minutes ago, Blue Crab said:

d' -- I live among them. 

The scariest thing about Ed's rant is that it's becoming a new norm. In the last 30 days or so, idiot AJ has had internet issues with Clean, AGITC, someone else and me. That's one guy per week. Guy was thinking of going the next day. AJ puffed up and wanted Clean's personal info -- and he got it! I forget the other one. Then AJ did some backpedaling with his bad knee, shoulder ... like the rest of us old farts are young warriors. AJ is playing a dangerous game that I suspect he can't back up. His drunk posting will come home to roost. 

Yeah, this is what our country is devolving to....  There is no such thing as having a disagreement or opposite views anymore.  It is now:  "Agree with me or I'm going to come beat the fuck out of you!"  

This will not end well.  For anyone.  

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Well our Burning Bitch did say gunz r good cuz Antifa.  Even when they aren't there they could be, you know hiding behind that tree.

1 minute ago, Female Canine Firestorm said:

Yeah, this is what our country is devolving to....  There is no such thing as having a disagreement or opposite views anymore.  It is now:  "Agree with me or I'm going to come beat the fuck out of you!"  

This will not end well.  For anyone.  

One guy does not a movement make - hope that helps.

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7 minutes ago, shaggybaxter said:
11 minutes ago, Female Canine Firestorm said:

But not totally accurate.

I'd still put it in the high percentages.  

As did I.  But he is way off on the Nazi thing.  And that is all anyone is focusing on in the pic.  Read the comments that followed....

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Just now, Female Canine Firestorm said:

As did I.  But he is way off on the Nazi thing.  And that is all anyone is focusing on in the pic.  Read the comments that followed....

I did, and I agree. The rest of it was pretty much bang on. 

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Just now, d'ranger said:
2 minutes ago, Female Canine Firestorm said:

Yeah, this is what our country is devolving to....  There is no such thing as having a disagreement or opposite views anymore.  It is now:  "Agree with me or I'm going to come beat the fuck out of you!"  

This will not end well.  For anyone.  

One guy does not a movement make - hope that helps.

But it's not just "one guy" and you know that.  It is not the norm, yet.  But it's quickly becoming that way.

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4 minutes ago, Female Canine Firestorm said:

Yeah, this is what our country is devolving to....  There is no such thing as having a disagreement or opposite views anymore.  It is now:  "Agree with me or I'm going to come beat the fuck out of you!"  

This will not end well.  For anyone.  

image.png.db52cfc7c7b1e778173c83c7697ff666.png

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5 minutes ago, Olsonist said:
10 minutes ago, Female Canine Firestorm said:

Yeah, this is what our country is devolving to....  There is no such thing as having a disagreement or opposite views anymore.  It is now:  "Agree with me or I'm going to come beat the fuck out of you!"  

This will not end well.  For anyone.  

image.png.db52cfc7c7b1e778173c83c7697ff666.png

Am I wrong?  You think both sides are interested in hearing the argument of the other and discussing it in a logical and unemotional manner and then working together to arrive at a solution to whatever the problem is?  

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1 minute ago, Female Canine Firestorm said:

Am I wrong?  You think both sides are interested in hearing the argument of the other and discussing it in a logical and unemotional manner and then working together to arrive at a solution to whatever the problem is?  

Well, you clearly and demonstrably aren’t interested or capable.

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40 minutes ago, Female Canine Firestorm said:

The truth hurts, doesn't it Edward?  Your triggered (see what I did there?:lol:) response is not good for your heart.  

And I think you should direct your ire at the SCOTUS.  They have determined that gunz are legal for self-defense.  

And I'm happy for you to come visit.  I'd rather sit down with you and share some good red wine or a nice single malt.  But if you're still insistent on being violent, we can do that dance too.  Your call.  

Just saying.

Don't worry darling my heart is fine.  And that was a lousy pun.  Not triggered at all, just blowing off some steam.

I clearly told you, I don't intend any violence, you would enjoy the stimulation.  I would do it just to make you happy, because I'm nice like that.

If it's an 18 year old single malt, a good Bordeaux at least 10 years old, or a top notch old Cali Cab, I'll consider your offer.  I am a bit of a snob when it comes to alcohol.

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2 minutes ago, Ed Lada said:

Don't worry darling my heart is fine.  And that was a lousy pun.  Not triggered at all, just blowing off some steam.

I clearly told you, I don't intend any violence, you would enjoy the stimulation.  I would do it just to make you happy, because I'm nice like that.

If it's an 18 year old single malt, a good Bordeaux at least 10 years old, or a top notch old Cali Cab, I'll consider your offer.  I am a bit of a snob when it comes to alcohol.

Don't worry, we don't tend to drink the cheap stuff.  Although with our big liquor warehouse closed down as "non-essential" (WTF???), we are relying on the grocery store for our lockdown booze supply chain.  It's drinkable, but only because it's an emergency and we're having to make some sacrifices.  

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11 hours ago, phillysailor said:

I do not have an argument which could withstand a trial, but I know what I see. This is unAmerican activity wrapped up in a flag.

Once upon a time that would have been true.

Now - that is what America has sunk to.

The dregs are in charge

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8 hours ago, mad said:

Definitely looking that way, strange that Trump is supporting exactly the actions that will reduce the number of votes for him in November. :wacko:

That's the only upside here - the bug will be far more prevalent in the morons than in intelligent people.

The collateral damage will be pretty big though - Darwin does not exactly use GPS guidance.

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8 hours ago, Mismoyled Jiblet. said:

I wouldn’t be surprised if one or more of those ‘turds own a converted non-legal weapon. For all TediousToms bullshitting about guns & 3D printing and the divine right of owning an automatic, he really doesn’t seem to know much.

That is rather endemic in the right wingers.

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8 hours ago, Ed Lada said:

Jesus mother fucking Christ, you are an imbecilic fuckwit.

...........

Oh, and please don't take offense at anything I said above, it's just my opinion after all.  Fuckwad.

 

Ed, the ignore button is your friend.

It has a salubrious effect on your blood pressure as a side benefit.

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7 hours ago, Female Canine Firestorm said:

Am I wrong?  You think both sides are interested in hearing the argument of the other and discussing it in a logical and unemotional manner and then working together to arrive at a solution to whatever the problem is?  

When one side has a leader who simply cannot distinguish or care about truth, facts, expertise and even denies his own clear statements minutes after making them, and the other side does not, then there really, sadly, is no grounds for "hearing the argument of the other and discussing it in a logical and unemotional manner."

Very sadly, that is where we are now.

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12 hours ago, mad said:

I thought it was only the add-ons that made them assault rifles?

In some cases, for now. One appears to have a barrel shroud and the other an adjustable stock, both of which make any gun, even an ordinary .22, into a "military" weapon.

I'd point out that these cosmetic features don't make them any more or less lethal, but I saw what happened in Massachusetts when the grabber AG heard that argument. She said, OK, all the functionally identical "copycats" (that had been legally sold for almost two decades) were therefore also scary "assault" weapons and subject to the ban.

Here's the simple rule: guns that go BANG are "assault" weapons and TeamD/grabby types want to ban and confiscate them. If they'd stop pretending otherwise, as with the tedious repetition of dozens of references to "military" guns in this thread, I'd stop pointing out that simple truth. When you have a scary label like "assault weapon" then the political trick becomes to see how many guns it can be slapped onto, thereby banning them. It never ends.

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2 hours ago, Left Shift said:

When one side has a leader who simply cannot distinguish or care about truth, facts, expertise and even denies his own clear statements minutes after making them, and the other side does not, then there really, sadly, is no grounds for "hearing the argument of the other and discussing it in a logical and unemotional manner."

No, the (D) leadership just delete the offending tweets and pretend they never happened.

Or they just continue to repeat discredited talking points.

But, sure, the (D) party is just a shining beacon of truth.

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19 hours ago, Female Canine Firestorm said:

 

But in any event, it's a sad commentary that in America it requires two guys to stand guard with "military style" weapons in order to have a peaceful demonstration. 

Bullshit. 

There were a lot more than two 'guards'. 

They were there to intimidate, and I'll bet more than a few were itchin for a fight. 

200415-michigan-protest-video-tease__415

Hmmm... is there anybody in this photo *without* a firearm? 

I guess they need them to defend against the likes of this guy:

Defiant healthcare workers clash with anti-lockdown protesters in ...

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every one of those dickfaces should be asked to sign this  so my good friends dont; need to worry about them...

corona12.jpg.5e6816d35ec1a7139ece209a755b49f8.jpg

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18 hours ago, SloopJonB said:
On 4/19/2020 at 6:41 AM, Mismoyled Jiblet. said:

I wouldn’t be surprised if one or more of those ‘turds own a converted non-legal weapon. For all TediousToms bullshitting about guns & 3D printing and the divine right of owning an automatic, he really doesn’t seem to know much.

That is rather endemic in the right wingers.

It is?  Cite please.  

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18 hours ago, Left Shift said:

When one side has a leader who simply cannot distinguish or care about truth, facts, expertise and even denies his own clear statements minutes after making them, and the other side does not, then there really, sadly, is no grounds for "hearing the argument of the other and discussing it in a logical and unemotional manner."

Very sadly, that is where we are now.

But we are not talking about trump.  We are talking about you and me and folks here on this site and folks out in real life are not able to have rational conversations because it's become this "Us vs Them" mentality.  A lot of people out there don't like trump but also don't like the left's prescription for everything.  It's not a binary world, as much as you would like it to be so.  

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10 minutes ago, Female Canine Firestorm said:

But we are not talking about trump.  We are talking about you and me and folks here on this site and folks out in real life are not able to have rational conversations because it's become this "Us vs Them" mentality.  A lot of people out there don't like trump but also don't like the left's prescription for everything.  It's not a binary world, as much as you would like it to be so.  

We are talking about Shitstain and you're talking about your boy as well. We regret the confusion.

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8 minutes ago, Female Canine Firestorm said:

But we are not talking about trump.  We are talking about you and me and folks here on this site and folks out in real life are not able to have rational conversations because it's become this "Us vs Them" mentality.  A lot of people out there don't like trump but also don't like the left's prescription for everything.  It's not a binary world, as much as you would like it to be so.  

:lol: Same paragraph :lol:

physician heal thine self.

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Thanks for this topic. Every once in a while I need to be reminded why I avoid PA like the plague......

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The pic at the start of the thread is not Michigan's 'best look.'  I prefer this view...sailing on Little Traverse Bay.  That's us in the Blue and White kite.

Hroth

 

 

IMG_2707.JPG

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1 hour ago, hrothgar said:

The pic at the start of the thread is not Michigan's 'best look.'  I prefer this view...sailing on Little Traverse Bay.  That's us in the Blue and White kite.

Hroth

 

 

IMG_2707.JPG

Beauty, thanks!!

What was the outcome of the green stripe spinnaker, looks like he's coming at the rest of you on stb... do you recall?

FB- Doug

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22 hours ago, Olsonist said:
22 hours ago, Female Canine Firestorm said:

We are talking about you and me and folks here on this site and folks out in real life are not able to have rational conversations because it's become this "Us vs Them" mentality.  A lot of people out there don't like trump but also don't like the left's prescription for everything.  It's not a binary world, as much as you would like it to be so.  

We are talking about Shitstain and you're talking about your boy as well. We regret the confusion.

Not all conversations revolve around Trump, as much as he'd like that.

Jeffie's problem is that he's been programmed to hate-HATE-HATE "The Left" even though he's not sure what it is. There are a lot of them, there's a multi-billion-dollar industry tickling this fancy. They don't grasp this conditioning any more than a fish knows he's under water.

When you try and present him with facts that contradict this preconceived notion, he (and the others) can only react with disgust and confusion. You might as well try and explain relativity.

- DSK

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41 minutes ago, Steam Flyer said:

Beauty, thanks!!

What was the outcome of the green stripe spinnaker, looks like he's coming at the rest of you on stb... do you recall?

FB- Doug

They were clear ahead.  Thats a GL70.  We are just a little J/111.  We stay out of their way :)

Hroth

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A decent article on how this is all 'becoming' politicized in Michigan...