alctel

Can someone suggest some decent boat ideas?

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I currently have a 36' 1980 hunter which was easy to handle and was a great first boat, and I took it up to Alaska and down to Mexico. However, there are a few things that really bother me and looking to change boats. Can anyone suggest anything under the following requirements while we are all stuck in self-isolation?

Essentials:

- under 40' 

- tiller

- cutter or a sloop with inner forestay/solent stay (slutter)

- no headliner

- boom end sheeting

- no core below waterline

- does well upwind

- room in cockpit to lie down

Nice to haves:

- no teak deck

-- sea berth

- comfy inside

- lead keel

- encapsulated keel

Anyone have any ideas or experience with something similar?

 

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I guess that would have helped!

Use would be cruising, both coastal and crossings, with the odd long-distance race for fun (Northern Century, Swiftsure)

Budget - under 60,000, preferably under 40,000

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4 minutes ago, Navig8tor said:

What about this, A Farr 38 lying NZ, you'd have to sail it back given the current global climate that might not be a bad thing, don't be scared by the price that's  NZD asking.

https://www.trademe.co.nz/motors/boats-marine/yachts/keeler/auction-2573085639.htm?rsqid=f4ace24ba7e44c46b184d09205fe1afa-002

Drool!  

Closer to home & equally awesome: Olson 40!  You might have to get creative to lie down across that traveler but probably worth it.  Are you single handing?  

https://www.yachtworld.com/boats/1983/olson-40-3650837/

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2 minutes ago, socalrider said:

Drool!  

Closer to home & equally awesome: Olson 40!  You might have to get creative to lie down across that traveler but probably worth it.  Are you single handing?  

https://www.yachtworld.com/boats/1983/olson-40-3650837/

Let me add to the drool;

82,000NZD =
49,471.33USD
1 USD = 1.65753 NZD
1 NZD = 0.603309 USD
New Zealand Dollar to US Dollar Conversion
Last updated: 2020-04-19 03:43 UTC

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2 hours ago, Navig8tor said:

What about this, A Farr 38 lying NZ, you'd have to sail it back given the current global climate that might not be a bad thing, don't be scared by the price that's  NZD asking.

https://www.trademe.co.nz/motors/boats-marine/yachts/keeler/auction-2573085639.htm?rsqid=f4ace24ba7e44c46b184d09205fe1afa-002

Offset transom walk-through? Death trap.

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End boom sheeting? Buehler?

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Good suggestions, I really like the Wylie.

Cutter would be because I like the idea of having a bigger sail on the front Furler and then a hank on 90 or something for heavier weather. Right now I'm using a 125 as an all rounder which works ok but I'd like to have more options

Forgot to add external chainplates to my list - my current boat has through deck chainplates and they are a nightmare to stop leaking

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2 minutes ago, Misbehavin' said:

Offset transom walk-through? Death trap.

WTF you talking about?

Boats are death traps if you can’t swim.

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8 hours ago, Navig8tor said:

What about this, A Farr 38 lying NZ, you'd have to sail it back given the current global climate that might not be a bad thing, don't be scared by the price that's  NZD asking.

https://www.trademe.co.nz/motors/boats-marine/yachts/keeler/auction-2573085639.htm?rsqid=f4ace24ba7e44c46b184d09205fe1afa-002

That boat looks awesome. 

However it brings up a question. Is the offset step through transom just as deadly as an offset companionway? If a boat has an offset companionway and an offset walk through transom, offset from each other, is the death sentence offset?

 

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11 hours ago, socalrider said:

https://sailinganarchy.com/advert/1979-wylie-31-blue-water-cruiser/

This looks pretty cool other than the cutter requirement.  Why's that essential?  

There's also the hobie 33 listed, depending on your definition of "comfy inside"

 

Really like this, especially for its size.   Very well set up.

I’m curious, though, not knowing much at all about cold-moulded construction.  I’d have thought, for a wood boat (albeit laminated construction), that external chainplates would be the preferred way to install chainplates, instead of penetrating the deck.

 

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44 minutes ago, Jud - s/v Sputnik said:

Really like this, especially for its size.   Very well set up.

I’m curious, though, not knowing much at all about cold-moulded construction.  I’d have thought, for a wood boat (albeit laminated construction), that external chainplates would be the preferred way to install chainplates, instead of penetrating the deck.

 

The other thing I’m curious about is “how” you cruise the Pacific for 7 years on a boat with an 11 gallon diesel tank and 45 gallon water tank.  I mean, obviously it can be done (the boat did just that - jugs on deck?), and some cruise engineless on smaller boats with smaller water tanks...but, man, having only 11 gallons of diesel and 45 of water would seem challenging for far-away cruising, even being conservative in your consumption.

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9 hours ago, Navig8tor said:

WTF you talking about?

Boats are death traps if you can’t swim.

Didn't get any sleep last night, so my head was a bit messed this morning. It was just a stupid joke, based on those on here that think that offset companionways = death trap.

I've never seen an offset walk through in the transom like that. Very cool boat though, that Farr 38.

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Hunter 37c could work. Pull the wheel install tiller in emergency spot on rear.

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1 hour ago, Jud - s/v Sputnik said:

The other thing I’m curious about is “how” you cruise the Pacific for 7 years on a boat with an 11 gallon diesel tank and 45 gallon water tank.  I mean, obviously it can be done (the boat did just that - jugs on deck?), and some cruise engineless on smaller boats with smaller water tanks...but, man, having only 11 gallons of diesel and 45 of water would seem challenging for far-away cruising, even being conservative in your consumption.

Only use the water for drinking.

I crossed the atlantic with totla of 6 abouard with a 70 gallon tank. The water made it all the way. We drank lots of coffee. We did have parmalat and other canned jioces and stuff aboatd which lowers the demand.

45 gallons of water for cruising with say two peope? Cushy.

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15 minutes ago, ctl411 said:

Hunter 37c could work. Pull the wheel install tiller in emergency spot on rear.

Hah, my friends have one and I do like it a lot. Similar in style to my 36 just... better. I think it still has a headliner though

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15 hours ago, Misbehavin' said:

Offset transom walk-through? Death trap.

I thought that only applies to companionways?

FB- Doug

 

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12 hours ago, Jud - s/v Sputnik said:

The other thing I’m curious about is “how” you cruise the Pacific for 7 years on a boat with an 11 gallon diesel tank and 45 gallon water tank.  I mean, obviously it can be done (the boat did just that - jugs on deck?), and some cruise engineless on smaller boats with smaller water tanks...but, man, having only 11 gallons of diesel and 45 of water would seem challenging for far-away cruising, even being conservative in your consumption.

We have met several boats on this program, engines only for in and out of marina, mostly rain catchment for water, or shleping.  More single handers, but one family.  It's the true I have no schedule mode.

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A watermaker, even a simple one, could be seen as necessary these days.

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Hunter 37.5 Legend, as mentioned above pull the steering pedestal (VERY easy) and add tiller in the emergency rudder stock.

Hell it comes with an emergency tiller already, save some cash. Or make yourself a beautiful wooden one. 

No headliner.

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Rip the headliner out if you don't like it.  I want the Olson 40, great sailing boats and that seems like a hell of a deal.  You can always put a Solent stay on, as it goes almost all the way to the top you don't need runners, I have one on my cruising boat with a working jib hanked on all the time, a Johnson turnbuckle with handles and a fast pin to disconnect it when I am using the genoa.  Very clean and simple solution, don't be afraid to get a boat and make into yours that will work for you.

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Has anyone been on a Westerly Storm 33? Bilge Keeler but apparently aren't too bad upwind?

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31 minutes ago, alctel said:

Has anyone been on a Westerly Storm 33? Bilge Keeler but apparently aren't too bad upwind?

Is there a haystack rating on it?

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On 4/19/2020 at 3:45 PM, Steam Flyer said:

I thought that only applies to companionways?

FB- Doug

 

could be a new early warning indicator of certain death?

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Viking 34 Ultimatum is listed at Thunderbird in West Van.

https://vancouver.craigslist.org/nvn/bod/d/west-vancouver-viking-34/7101686708.html

I think it ticks your boxes but would be smaller and less cruisey that your Hunter. Way better build than Hunter.

I saw it looking unloved a few years ago so I had a look when it got listed - appears to have had a lot of love since. Self tailers, instruments etc.

You'd love the performance if you could live with "less boat".

There's also a couple of the Korean Peterson 34's listed on CL right now - both under $20K. They are nice boats and again - way better build than Hunter.

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On 4/19/2020 at 7:59 AM, Jud - s/v Sputnik said:

Really like this, especially for its size.   Very well set up.

I’m curious, though, not knowing much at all about cold-moulded construction.  I’d have thought, for a wood boat (albeit laminated construction), that external chainplates would be the preferred way to install chainplates, instead of penetrating the deck.

 

That boat would be $70 - $75,000 by the time you got it home here.

42% exchange, 12% tax on $65K

Lot of money for a 40 year old 30'.

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2 hours ago, SloopJonB said:

That boat would be $70 - $75,000 by the time you got it home here.

42% exchange, 12% tax on $65K

Lot of money for a 40 year old 30'.

For sure, for a Canadian buyer (wasn’t sure Alctel, the OP, was in Canada or not).

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There is a Peterson 35 for sale, at cherry point on Cowichan Bay. I can pm you more info. A friend of mine owns it and it sails a charm. If only I could turn the image...E0FEEBDE-BD83-4C65-AEB3-342709BDA198.thumb.jpeg.59e3f68dff752fce5b4cdeb69ab80bbe.jpeg

Edited by monsters inc
90 degree photo

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Find someone desperate to unload a Morris 36 Justine. 

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2 hours ago, Innocent Bystander said:

Plenty of Islander 36’s in your range. A few tiller steered. Hard to get a “skitter” in that size and price range.  This looks pretty hard ridden and probably overpriced. 
 

https://www.yachtworld.com/boats/1974/islander-36-3668094/

One of those just sold at Race Rock in scruffy but usable shape at a $6K ask.

Young two boat owners so it had to go.

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4 minutes ago, ExOmo said:

Cal 36

I had a Cal 36 for decades. It actually easily checks every requirement the OP listed. You a genius ExOmo. Or a search robot.

One best thing is the lie down cockpit seats. We had a plywood filler to make a king size bed in the cockpit for anchoring in Mexico. Fabulous!

World class navigator quarter berth. I've slept there thousands of miles. Could reach all the radios, radar, etc. from there.

A Cal 36 sails great, of course. But not too good with heavy modern cruising cargo. So one needs to resist some urges.

They were built with a inner forestay in mind though. The sails were free flying on sewn in wire luffs. Pretty simple since they are small.

Mast step can be kinda weak for racing loads. But it makes little difference for cruising. Even if cracked a bit or the head door is busted from the force. 

Offset companion way, though. :-)

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On 5/2/2020 at 1:09 PM, El Boracho said:

I had a Cal 36 for decades. It actually easily checks every requirement the OP listed. You a genius ExOmo. Or a search robot.

One best thing is the lie down cockpit seats. We had a plywood filler to make a king size bed in the cockpit for anchoring in Mexico. Fabulous!

World class navigator quarter berth. I've slept there thousands of miles. Could reach all the radios, radar, etc. from there.

A Cal 36 sails great, of course. But not too good with heavy modern cruising cargo. So one needs to resist some urges.

They were built with a inner forestay in mind though. The sails were free flying on sewn in wire luffs. Pretty simple since they are small.

Mast step can be kinda weak for racing loads. But it makes little difference for cruising. Even if cracked a bit or the head door is busted from the force. 

Offset companion way, though. :-)

We owned the last Cal 36 built, #104. When delivered, the mast step (deck stepped) was held in place by three 6" long wood screws through the deck and into the mahogany post below. Based on previous experience with Cal construction, one of the first fixes was to remove the step and mount it to an aluminum plate that through bolted to some aluminum angles that also locked the wood post in place. Great boat and the hours spent with Dad installing deck hardware, rebuilding interior components and customizing the spars (internal halyards) were the greatest part of my high school years. I easily learned more real world practical knowledge from that then I did in most of the courses I took. 

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On 5/1/2020 at 5:06 AM, alctel said:

Has anyone been on a Westerly Storm 33? Bilge Keeler but apparently aren't too bad upwind?

I've been on a Storm. Mate's dad had one when we were kids. Quite nice, reasonable performance with a comfortable fit out below. Decent build quality. They were used as match race boats in the UK for a while for some bizarre reason.

I only experienced fin keel versions, didn't know they made a bilge. I know I'll upset a few people with this comment, but I've never encountered a bilge keeler, or shoal draft boat, that goes up wind better than a thrown piece of crumpled paper.

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I look at bilge keeler and get overcome by drag and useless lift, convince me that it’s not a total fuck up.

And yes I know they sit nicely at low tide.

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They aren't all old Westerly Centaurs

image.png.d5ceff8b579d3a28b12936c882be5ba7.png

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16 minutes ago, SloopJonB said:

They aren't all old Westerly Centaurs

image.png.d5ceff8b579d3a28b12936c882be5ba7.png

Why do they always look like they'll fall over on their nose if I walk my fat arse forward?  

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1 hour ago, Raz'r said:

Why do they always look like they'll fall over on their nose if I walk my fat arse forward?  

Well I guess if you weigh more than the righting moment of the keel with your fat arse on the bow?

Say you are... 15ft from the keel? So =15*(your fat arse)... I'm going to guess you "displace" 500lbs... so 15*500 = 9000lb...

Yea, your right. Your fat arse might actually tip it over.

Notice there is a ladder on that bow though, which means a skinny Italian supermodel must own this particular boat.

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28 minutes ago, Floating Duck said:

Well I guess if you weigh more than the righting moment of the keel with your fat arse on the bow?

Say you are... 15ft from the keel? So =15*(your fat arse)... I'm going to guess you "displace" 500lbs... so 15*500 = 9000lb...

Yea, your right. Your fat arse might actually tip it over.

Notice there is a ladder on that bow though, which means a skinny Italian supermodel must own this particular boat.

I get it, but the keel is almost by definition around the CG of the boat. Clearly it's designed for what it is, hence the ladder, but visually it looks odd. Now, if there's an engine in the back with a v-drive all the way forward...

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1 hour ago, Floating Duck said:

Well I guess if you weigh more than the righting moment of the keel with your fat arse on the bow?

Say you are... 15ft from the keel? So =15*(your fat arse)... I'm going to guess you "displace" 500lbs... so 15*500 = 9000lb...

Yea, your right. Your fat arse might actually tip it over.

Notice there is a ladder on that bow though, which means a skinny Italian supermodel must own this particular boat.

got any pics of said italian supermodel? :D

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7 hours ago, Elegua said:

Neat boat, but is it safe to buy a "price reduced" supermodel? 

Looking a little close to the "best before" date. I'd go for something with a warranty.

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4 hours ago, Ishmael said:

Looking a little close to the "best before" date. I'd go for something with a warranty.

Something that doesn't look like it may need rings and a rebore.:D

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On 5/5/2020 at 11:10 AM, A3A said:

We owned the last Cal 36 built, #104. When delivered, the mast step (deck stepped) was held in place by three 6" long wood screws through the deck and into the mahogany post below. Based on previous experience with Cal construction, one of the first fixes was to remove the step and mount it to an aluminum plate that through bolted to some aluminum angles that also locked the wood post in place. Great boat and the hours spent with Dad installing deck hardware, rebuilding interior components and customizing the spars (internal halyards) were the greatest part of my high school years. I easily learned more real world practical knowledge from that then I did in most of the courses I took. 

Certainly there would be issues to address on 50+ year old boats!

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5 hours ago, ExOmo said:

Certainly there would be issues to address on 50+ year old boats!

When delivered, maybe not.

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From the point of deck layout, racing boats are different from cruising boats. A boat like the NY36 is going to be set up for a crew of 6 or 8 at least so the sail handling gear is spaced out to give everyone room. A cruising boat is designed to be sailed by two or three who are on watch.

Just as an eample, on my Hunter 28, the sheet winches are easily reachable from the helm. This is a pain while racing, but an advantage otherwise. A J/Boat is the opposite.

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Interesting and helpful thread.  I have pretty much the same criteria.  My Aphrodite 101 ticks all the boxes until you get to head room.  Two weeks is OK buteach successive day is just more painful than the prior.  I like the Hughes 35  (S&S Design2166 which is also a SHE 36 I am told)  There is one in Ontario and maybe one in Stamford CT.  Not expensive and can be converted to tiller plus end-boom sheeting.  For me, a skeg helps as it sheds debris and lobster trap warps.

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The downside to the Hughes is a small rig - SA/D around 15. Engine on a V-Drive limits access as well.

It was a Maxi 3/4 Tonner so they had to trade off a small rig to get the rating.

Well built boats that don't get the respect they deserve because they were kinda cheaply finished. Rod Stephens was still doing his "audits" of companies building S&S designs in those days so you know they were good where it mattered.

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A tiller helps with deck layout because you can reach anywhere in the cockpit with a tiller extension. 

My Express 37 has a cockpit designed for racing but it’s really easy to use when short handing. The traveler is the only thing that is a long reach from the tiller, and I’d just reconfigure it if I mostly sailed short handed. I can use the secondary winches for the jib instead of primary and then they are directly next to where I sit.

The upside of a race boat is that it’s a lot easier to inspect and repair because no one hides the hardware. Our boat has a really comfortable interior and enough storage for family cruising. 
 

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2 hours ago, Alex W said:

The upside of a race boat is that it’s a lot easier to inspect and repair because no one hides the hardware.

This.

Hardware fasteners on the underside of the deck before the liner is installed have to be one of the dumbest ideas ever.

Making it a prerequisite to cut up your boat to maintain it?

WTF thought that up?

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9 hours ago, Alex W said:

A tiller helps with deck layout because you can reach anywhere in the cockpit with a tiller extension. 

My Express 37 has a cockpit designed for racing but it’s really easy to use when short handing. The traveler is the only thing that is a long reach from the tiller, and I’d just reconfigure it if I mostly sailed short handed. I can use the secondary winches for the jib instead of primary and then they are directly next to where I sit.

The upside of a race boat is that it’s a lot easier to inspect and repair because no one hides the hardware. Our boat has a really comfortable interior and enough storage for family cruising. 
 

A voyaging boat is going to have an autopilot which also helps a lot. 

My comment was only suggest that the deck layout is deserving of a little study when looking at any particular boat. Even on my boat, it's hard to reef with fewer than three: one to steer, one on the winch (halyard and reefing line) and one on deck at the gooseneck to put the ring on the hook

 

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