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marcus brutus

Used J Boat price falling almost as fast as the price of oil.

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The price of Jboats have always been cheaper in Europe than the US. Add the VAT and Shipping to get it over here and they are not as cheap.
Also most banks will not give you financing until the boat touches US soil.

I am sure the in the present situation there will be a lot of dumping of assets for some people to stay solvent.

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I don’t think that boat is a good example of boat values.  That particular boat requires several hurdles for a new owner to overcome in order to properly acquire and document it.  The asking price on that boat reflects that.  If you look at any boat, most of them take a depreciation hit once they are 20 years old.  I think that is a big part of what you are seeing with the 120’s, 105’s etc...  these boats are also a generation old and the newer gen boats are hitting the market and putting pressure on prices.  120’s have definitely come down in price over the last 2 years but that boat is not a reflection of where the market is on them.
 

Who knows how much more pressure the current virus thing will put on prices but I don’t think we have seen that yet as it typically takes sellers quite awhile to catch-up with reality.  

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Look at the listing. This is a boat that has been apparently heavily used by a club set up to do and train for distance racing. Who knows how old the photos are? How beat the sails are?  Maybe there are extensive delamination problems that prospective buyers have found, leading to earlier price drops? The club is perhaps going bankrupt in the current situation and looking to liquidate ASAP to avoid storage/mooring fees. Plus, VAT has not been paid, so any European buyer will have to add that to his costs. Buying a pig in a poke?

 

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The J/120 on the posted link has been ridden HARD and put away WET in its life as a racing charter boat. I wouldn't be surprised if the price reflects that once it gets surveyed.

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A boat is only worth what someone is willing to pay for it.  The only way to accurately determine a boats worth is to be able to look at the recent comp sales (actual sale prices).  This is where a buyer broker earns his keep.  Without access to all that data, I don’t know how you can confidently make a valuation.  In my case, I have 4 years of historical sales data on J120’s.  The range on these boats is pretty wide, but generally you get what you pay for.  Not sure about 88’s but if there is enough sales data, any reasonable buyer can determine what a boat is worth.  It is not always easy to get the seller to agree, but atleast with J boats there is usually some good data.

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Facts will never convince climate change and plague denier assholes on this forum, the likes of jackoff and genoa salami.

We have entered the age of plague; there is no going back to the pre pandemic norms.

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31 minutes ago, marcus brutus said:

Facts will never convince climate change and plague denier assholes on this forum, the likes of jackoff and genoa salami.

We have entered the age of plague; there is no going back to the pre pandemic norms.

It's been years since I had an akaGP nickname. The nostalgia is nice.

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Its really too early to tell.  Lets see what happens in 3 months.  I would imagine most sailboat owners probably aren't hurting as bad as other people YET.  

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24 minutes ago, Controversial_posts said:

@marcus brutus did a boat broker once touch you on your pee pee when you were in school sailing camp?

Sure sounds like you have some very disturbing pedophile fantasies, Mr. Controversial; better seek psychiatric treatment ASAP before the police check the contents of your computer hard drive.

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4 hours ago, marcus brutus said:

Is that cheap?  

Soldboats.com showed that in the period between 11/14 and 04/20 the average selling price of a J-88 was 124K with the three lowest and most recent sales being 99K, 83K and 105K.

Sounds like pretty normal depreciation at the moment.  Give it three more months then I think we will really see the effects of pandemic pricing!

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I recently was riding my bike around the marina and saw this J 35 for sale at the local broker's docks..

I know this boat well and believe it is a lot of boat for $24,500.  I raced on it regularly in the 90s and early 00s.  It was maintained well and the owners were a super nice, kind, generous couple.  Sadly, the husband slid into dementia and the wife passed away in 2015.  The boat sat neglected at the dock in front of their house for a few years but was  bought and cleaned up and refit recently (a couple of years ago?).  It has an extensive albeit old sail inventory.  I only post this for sentimental reasons.  I had a lot of great times on the boat and miss the previous owners deeply.  If I could afford to store it and maintain it I would jump on it in a heartbeat.

Scooter

 

 

 

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The title of this thread really got my hopes up

"Used J Boat price falling almost as fast as the price of oil" suggests that the seller is paying me to take one. That would be nice, I'd do that. Unless it was a J24.

FB- Doug

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40 minutes ago, Steam Flyer said:

The title of this thread really got my hopes up

"Used J Boat price falling almost as fast as the price of oil" suggests that the seller is paying me to take one. That would be nice, I'd do that. Unless it was a J24.

FB- Doug

When the cost of storage between now and when you can use the boat is more that the value of the boat, negative pricing will make perfect sense.

I am just imagining the reaction of the poor broker who couldn't sell and ended up having to take delivery of his/her May oil position..... just stick it round the back of the garage where my spouse can't see it.  works temporarily for a small boat, not so much for a thousands of barrels of oil.

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If you are asking about Scooter (J 35),  nothing is wrong with it that I know of.  I think the current owner paid very little for it because it was sold by the previous owner ‘s accountant for the trust and it had been sitting at the dock for a long time although the bottom was continued to be cleaned.

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9 hours ago, woodpecker said:

The price of Jboats have always been cheaper in Europe than the US. Add the VAT and Shipping to get it over here and they are not as cheap.
Also most banks will not give you financing until the boat touches US soil.

I am sure the in the present situation there will be a lot of dumping of assets for some people to stay solvent.

why would you add the VAT if you are shipping it out of Europe?

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23 minutes ago, KC375 said:

why would you add the VAT if you are shipping it out of Europe?

I looked into doing this some years ago and there some sort of import duty/or tax that needed to paid to bring it into the country. Not sure the exact term for it was. If I remember correctly it as 1.5% of the VALUE (not purchase price) of the boat. Had to hire a customs and shipping agent also. 
Explain how VAT works?

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34 minutes ago, woodpecker said:

I looked into doing this some years ago and there some sort of import duty/or tax that needed to paid to bring it into the country. Not sure the exact term for it was. If I remember correctly it as 1.5% of the VALUE (not purchase price) of the boat. Had to hire a customs and shipping agent also. 
Explain how VAT works?

In general sales tax (of which VAT is a type) is not charged on or is refunded on goods that are exported (all sorts of caveats about documenting export and how long you have after purchase to export etc).

Not surprisingly when importing you may need to pay import duties and often need to pay local sales tax.

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6 hours ago, Hitchhiker said:

Is that cheap?  

Soldboats.com showed that in the period between 11/14 and 04/20 the average selling price of a J-88 was 124K with the three lowest and most recent sales being 99K, 83K and 105K.

Sounds like pretty normal depreciation at the moment.  Give it three more months then I think we will really see the effects of pandemic pricing!

I think so, too. Once people realize that they will need to pay for winter storage and add repairs, insurance etc., there will be prices coming down by ... a lot.

But: markets will get fragmented. It will be harder to buy in, say, Spain, and get the boat to France. Will be interesting to see what happens in the UK, people tend to forget about Brexit these days...

The only boats that will do well: possible liveaboard boats. Prices for Condos in Florida have gone UP because affluent people only short of retiring think of fleeing NYC etc, the same mechanism applies here, I guess.

Good read re the oil from nytimes.

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10 hours ago, kent_island_sailor said:

Wait until fall and people have to re-up their slip and/or find winter storage. That will be deal time.

Sad, but true.

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On 4/21/2020 at 12:13 PM, PaulK said:

Who knows how old the photos are?

After looking at the first few boats during our search, this became the first question we'd ask a broker or seller.  Saved us a lot of trips.

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3 hours ago, LTFF said:

J boats are lame get a Melges

After many years of M24 racing, we went the other direction. I know, I know....friends don’t let friends....

...but, the big J Boats are awesome performance cruisers. Melges makes awesome racing boats. J Boats is on to something though. May not be the fastest, or most luxe, but they hit the sweet spot in between. 

www.sweetruca.com

 

 

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^^ Ok, so I tried three tabs on your link and they all led me to this.  I'll go with human stupidity for 1,000 Alex. 

stupid.JPG

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J-120's are getting a bit long in the tooth, thats still a good price though. 

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On 4/27/2020 at 4:50 AM, Jules said:
On 4/21/2020 at 12:13 PM, PaulK said:

Who knows how old the photos are?

After looking at the first few boats during our search, this became the first question we'd ask a broker or seller.  Saved us a lot of trips.

Zackly

There are a number of brokers who you just -know- are bullshitters when you talk to them. Unless the boat is something you really really want one of, something that's hard to find, don't bother with those. When my wife and I settled on a type of boat we wanted next, about four years ago, I got in the habit of telling brokers over the phone, "I don't want to waste your time yakking, but you better not be wasting my time coming to look." Out of a couple of dozen boats, there was only one that I told the broker "You owe me half a tank of gas and a days travel, for not telling me the boat was in -this- (pointing out something filthy, broken, etc etc, on a boat that was obviously in piss-poor shape after being described as near-perfect) kind of condition."

OTOH a long time ago, before we even settled on a trawler to cruise and were still looking at big sailboats, a nice lady broker said "I have a couple of listings in the size range you want, they don't seem like what you're looking for, but how about a quick look just to see?" which we agreed to readily. One of the boats she showed us had dirty dishes in the sink, dead bugs littering the interior, and dirty underwear in rumpled aft bunk. She had not looked inside it herself, and had a number of comment about the way owners expect her to make up for their little oopsies.

FB- Doug

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