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“The older boats bury in the water downwind, right down to deck level. The modern racer is a lot more thrilling to sail downwind. But I don’t like what they’ve done with the ballast of the modern boats. They’ve taking it out of the keel so you have to stick the crew on the rail and they’re not allowed to get off.

I don’t want to sail like that and I think they’ve lost the plot a bit there, compared to the days of the nice solid boat capable of withstanding hard weather and with proper eating and sleeping conditions. I do worry a bit about how strong they are and their ability to withstand some of the weather I’ve been through.”

 - Richard ‘Sightie’ Hammond – legendary offshore navigator (1998)

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Crank the boom to weather, inhaul the sheet in to 3.5°, put 8 tons on the forestay load cell, hike the bastard and get there twice as fast before the weather sets in and have a beverage.  What's not to like?

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Are you sure it was better in the old days?

8mr from 1930

 

6BB910D4-7111-432A-9E30-36AAB712BDA5.thumb.jpeg.2ae6fdd7c4947394aaabfb0354eb1c40.jpeg

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I find todays Maxis a bit hard to get enthusiastic about.   If you want to go really fast, and you have the bucks, then the answer is clear - get a Mod 70 and skip all the silly hiking.

 

But different strokes.

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1 hour ago, Editor said:

Cannonball--300x190.jpg

“The older boats bury in the water downwind, right down to deck level. The modern racer is a lot more thrilling to sail downwind. But I don’t like what they’ve done with the ballast of the modern boats. They’ve taking it out of the keel so you have to stick the crew on the rail and they’re not allowed to get off.

I don’t want to sail like that and I think they’ve lost the plot a bit there, compared to the days of the nice solid boat capable of withstanding hard weather and with proper eating and sleeping conditions. I do worry a bit about how strong they are and their ability to withstand some of the weather I’ve been through.”

 - Richard ‘Sightie’ Hammond – legendary offshore navigator (1998)

And that was in 1998. The years that saw the demise of IOR in favour of IMS. Extrapolate that and you know where we are now.

No shti. 5.40m of draft. Why not add a plough to the bulb?

What I find sad: there are hardly any more iconic yachts. Was just watching the documentary of the 89 Whitbread in the Ocean Racing thread. Steinlager, Faszisi, Merit, Maiden, these all ring bells to this day.

But boats like Cannonball, Leopard, Comanche even. They get sold, painted and their names start fading away that moment.

No wonder WOXI gets resurrected each year, they understand that winners and legends are worlds apart.

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47 minutes ago, JMOD said:

Are you sure it was better in the old days?

8mr from 1930

 

6BB910D4-7111-432A-9E30-36AAB712BDA5.thumb.jpeg.2ae6fdd7c4947394aaabfb0354eb1c40.jpeg

You fart, you're off the team forever!

Looks like the guy with the porn-star sunglasses just caught a hint of the wind...

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1 hour ago, JMOD said:

Are you sure it was better in the old days?

8mr from 1930

 

6BB910D4-7111-432A-9E30-36AAB712BDA5.thumb.jpeg.2ae6fdd7c4947394aaabfb0354eb1c40.jpeg

They had mt gay hats and Bowman harneses in 1930?

Who knew.

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One day soon, a good old fashioned weather system will collide with the fast 50 fleet in a long ocean race.

Then we have a reset!

We have had almost 10 years of an active Indian Ocean dipole and 6 soft Hobart's.

The dipole has retreated this autumn and a La Nina is developing.

The wheel always turns!

And of course you will see who has no clothes on.

You just need a sense of history.

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Nothing like the horror / terror of yesteryears hole diggers doing 7/8 kts downwind in 25/30 knots with the death rolls to make you appreciate modern planning designs. Add to that modern nav and forecasting and I'll take my chances over yesteryear.

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59 minutes ago, Somebody Else said:

You fart, you're off the team forever!

Looks like the guy with the porn-star sunglasses just caught a hint of the wind...

Those white frames reflect and burn your face around the perimeter. and bridge of your nose.

I guess he found out for himself.

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1 hour ago, Matagi said:

And that was in 1998. The years that saw the demise of IOR in favour of IMS. Extrapolate that and you know where we are now.

No shti. 5.40m of draft. Why not add a plough to the bulb?

What I find sad: there are hardly any more iconic yachts. Was just watching the documentary of the 89 Whitbread in the Ocean Racing thread. Steinlager, Faszisi, Merit, Maiden, these all ring bells to this day.

But boats like Cannonball, Leopard, Comanche even. They get sold, painted and their names start fading away that moment.

No wonder WOXI gets resurrected each year, they understand that winners and legends are worlds apart.

I didn't know that Commanche had changed names/owners. Even though it's a bit one-dimensional in its talents it's iconic as it still (?) holds the transatlantic record.

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I find myself currently part of a modern 51 ft program ala TP52,  as fast and just as uncomfortable.  It can't get into half of the marinas where we sail, without hitting dirt at least once. 

All the hot food is not food, it's nutrition and even that is up for debate. 

There is a navigation station of sorts, that resides in a black hole, no way are you putting a chart on it.  Come to think of it the only place you could put a chart spends most of the time with a couple of mm of water rolling around the top.

When Shit is about to come unstitched, there's going to be blood.

I've only been doing this for 30 years give or take, so still a lot to learn.  But, fcuk me there's got to be a better way.  I give myself maybe two years with a chance of early release for bad behavior.

For example: How to take a shit.

We’ve already learned about the wonders of freeze dried food entry. Now is time for the exit strategy. Step one is the head. It looks pretty basic and simple. Painted all white, it might even be considered harmless. It is not. It’s the hell hole of the boat. The temperature inside the head compartment is about one hundred degrees higher than the rest of the boat. There is no ventilation. This is not a place you want to go. This is a place you have to go. Step two is commitment. We’re not talking your run of the mill marriage commitment either. We’re talking about serious, high level jump into the trenches commitment here. This could well be the battle of your life. There are sounds that come out, that are, well no amount of writing skill is enough to convey the trauma. Step three, if you get to step three, is to exit into the relative cool heat of the boat and rejoice in your successful trip to the Poolag.

 

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5 hours ago, Matagi said:

 

What I find sad: there are hardly any more iconic yachts. Was just watching the documentary of the 89 Whitbread in the Ocean Racing thread. Steinlager, Faszisi, Merit, Maiden, these all ring bells to this day.

But boats like Cannonball, Leopard, Comanche even. They get sold, painted and their names start fading away that moment.

No wonder WOXI gets resurrected each year, they understand that winners and legends are worlds apart.

Odd selection of boats.  Faszisi iconic???  Weird looking and infamous, but not iconic.  Merit?  A boat named after a cigarette, wouldn't recognize it walking down a dock?  Maiden?  Nothing to write home about as a boat, but a great program.  Steinlager the same thing.  Peter Blake was the icon, not the boat.

Comanche certainly has achieved iconic status.  

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Horses for courses this is a bit silly really. If you wanna go faster that's what you do, lighten the boat and put the crew on the rail. If that's not your horse buy the one you like. 

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I often wonder when at the wheel of one of the current crop of wiiide assed light weights or even a more sedate but nearly as wide production boat,  just how 'm going to stay braced at the wheel when it hits the fan.

I have been on (&driven) older IOR & IMS style boats in 90+ foot seas and 80+ knots and having a narrow helmsman's cockpit behind a big wheel feels a lot more secure,  than looking 10-15 feet to leeward from the wheel and deciding where you will land.

The newer style boats are a lot more fun up until a certain point at which they become a lot more scary!

As Left Shift says you can often get there before the shit happens on a faster boat, and with modern whether prediction you will usually know if there is going to be more than you are comfortable with,  but is deciding it's likely to blow too hard and staying home what ocean racing is all about?  And yes I appreciate it may be the seamen like thing to do.

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15 hours ago, JMOD said:

Are you sure it was better in the old days?

8mr from 1930

 

6BB910D4-7111-432A-9E30-36AAB712BDA5.thumb.jpeg.2ae6fdd7c4947394aaabfb0354eb1c40.jpeg

looking at Michiel's face... did you fart?

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14 hours ago, See Level said:

They had mt gay hats and Bowman harneses in 1930?

Who knew.

Color film and a digital watch too. That Depression thing must not have been that bad.

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10 hours ago, Left Shift said:

Odd selection of boats.  Faszisi iconic???  Weird looking and infamous, but not iconic.  Merit?  A boat named after a cigarette, wouldn't recognize it walking down a dock?  Maiden?  Nothing to write home about as a boat, but a great program.  Steinlager the same thing.  Peter Blake was the icon, not the boat.

Comanche certainly has achieved iconic status.  

Boats of pedigree:

Shadow, Dorade, Palawan, Finisterre, Flyer, (uh oh my S&S is showing), The Big Dinghy (Windward Passage), Tally Ho, Jolie Brise, Red Rooster, Jade, Police Car, I dunno, left some good ones out---aha! How about Myth, and Maid of Malham (Giles designs), Imp...Cheers, and Three Cheers, pretty much every Pen Duick (maybe especially the depleted uranium keeled one)

Having been aboard FASZIZI, I think it was crazy cool in a weird sort of way. No standing headroom in that thing! She bottomed out in Penn's Landing her keel was so deep.

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1 hour ago, fastyacht said:

Boats of pedigree:

Shadow, Dorade, Palawan, Finisterre, Flyer, (uh oh my S&S is showing), The Big Dinghy (Windward Passage), Tally Ho, Jolie Brise, Red Rooster, Jade, Police Car, I dunno, left some good ones out---aha! How about Myth, and Maid of Malham (Giles designs), Imp...Cheers, and Three Cheers, pretty much every Pen Duick (maybe especially the depleted uranium keeled one)

 Having been aboard FASZIZI, I think it was crazy cool in a weird sort of way. No standing headroom in that thing! She bottomed out in Penn's Landing her keel was so deep.

Flyer II (Frers) 

 

Line honours and handicap win in the Whitbread....

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At the top of my head I would say all the J-Class yachts, America, Shamrock, Australia II, Hydroptère, Drum, Mari Cha IV, Condor, Comanche, Fasizi, Pen Duick, KZ-1 and of course, if not talking dedicated racing yachts; Spray, Suhailia, Joshua, Teignmouth Electron as well as Titanic, Endeavour, Bounty, Santa Maria etc. which are quite legendary in their own context ;-)

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Having sailed sleds and multihulls most of my life, I knew stepping up to a TP52 I'd be sacrificing a bit of creature comforts for more fun sailing. And, I was not disappointed. Yes, they are not as comfortable. Yes, they beat you up more. But, dam they are fun! Every little extra bit of effort you can see an increase in speed. You sail them like a skiff except for days and nights on end. 

On Destroyer to soften the creature comforts deal. We sealed up as many of the water ingress points as possible. We put Raptor soft deck not only in the cockpit, but also throughout the cabin sole. We worked up a really nice boil in the bag menu. There's not a lot you can do about the head. And then, we sailed our hearts out and had a blast doing it. 

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8 hours ago, daan62 said:

looking at Michiel's face... did you fart?

No, slept in late, did not shower...

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