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Most egregious cheats?

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6 hours ago, mad said:

There was a certain Beneteau in the UK that had a hole saw taken to every part of the interior that wasn’t structural. The boat looked like a Swiss cheese! 
It was in the shed for a while before it sold. 

Must have copied the Carter Tina "Variag" in the 70's that did exactly the same thing.

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Maybe someone else from the Great Lakes recalls the details.  What was the story with Bob Seger the singer with rating problems in the Mac races?  Time flies, back in the 90's maybe.

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A certain J/105 back in the day. All boats were on the hard going through tech and you could obviously see this bow was highly modified. Looked like a Mumm 30.

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On 4/24/2020 at 8:59 PM, SloopJonB said:

Beer ballast

 

Ballast.jpg

That's not a cheat, that's a necessary foodstuff.

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1 hour ago, BayRacer said:

Maybe someone else from the Great Lakes recalls the details.  What was the story with Bob Seger the singer with rating problems in the Mac races?  Time flies, back in the 90's maybe.

Undeclared sprit and oversized asymmetrical. Protests were thrown out for invalidity, so the substance of the complaints was never decided. See generally “Bob Seger and his SC52 Lightning”.

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1 hour ago, Misbehavin' said:

I love Italy and almost everything about it, but they can't just stop cheating can they?

It's just a general approach to life...ingrained in their dna.

I rented a place near Lucca for a few weeks holiday. My charming and gracious landlord, was a an octogenarian avvocato. As a jurist he’d spent his life studying and practicing law. Clearly someone who respected rules and regulations.

Getting a taxi in the hinterland was a bit of a chore so he kindly offered to run me into town for groceries.

He drove a lovely Maserati that was young when he was young. It sounded and felt faster than it was but all the same I suggested that we could enjoy the scenic drive at a more leisurely clip, especially as it was hard to see around the upcoming corners.

He explained driving was about risks, about making the other guy take risks...explained as we zoomed through an unmarked intersection. We got to a bigger intersection with a light that changed against us. It had no effect on his driving..."they are just recommendations he explained".

My next trip into town I paid for a taxi.

Yacht racing rules are like rules of the road, more guidance than obligation.

 

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It's catching here as well - stop signs are pretty much just suggestions now.

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8 hours ago, mad said:

There was a certain Beneteau in the UK that had a hole saw taken to every part of the interior that wasn’t structural. The boat looked like a Swiss cheese! 
It was in the shed for a while before it sold. 

At least lightening holes are cool. :D Racers call them "speed holes".

image.png.d58b02406b0a0cefaaeb61e1866ce27f.pngimage.png.052e3e35bfe5ce31c1b1a98995064b7c.pngimage.png.98b48d901c2d3ba7b8aae5b8b29da8e5.pngimage.png.6e62b424dc48996873e667576ec449c3.png

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13 hours ago, CriticalPath said:

If a Kirby 25 couldn't stay ahead of a Shark 24 in 20+ knots, it had nothing to do with a 55 gallon drum on the high side in the cabin.

First, a 55 gallon drum of gas only weighs ~300-350 pounds; second, a 55 gallon drum wouldn't fit inside a Shark without cutting the deck off first; and third, if a boat that rates nearly 60 seconds slower passes you, it has more to do with performance of the boat you're on than theirs...

Musta been some good drugs onboard the K25!

 

closer to 500 lbs...   440 for the water say 50 for the drum...

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13 hours ago, SloopJohnB said:

I probably do more 360's than anyone else on the race track, such mainboom touching the mark, close contacts with other boats round marks.......its amazing how many rc skippers don't do their turns.

Yes, look at just about any video of RC sailing and you will see examples of this.  Some of it may be excusable - often it is older people sailing them and their eyesight at mark roundings might not be great.  Helps to have vertical stripes on the mark so if it is touched it will rotate.  Minor contact at roundings can be very difficult to see if the mark is far from the viewing area.  In other cases, mutual fouls are sometimes ignored but really shouldn't be - both boats should do their turns since they are gaining an advantage over the rest of the fleet if they don't.

Egregious?  This is playing with toy boats.  Most of the time the dock talk during or after the race will be enough to convince someone ignoring their fouls to smarten up.  If they keep doing it the dock talk eventually drives them away from the fleet.

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55 minutes ago, SloopJonB said:

It's catching here as well - stop signs are pretty much just suggestions now.

I grew up in Montreal, there they are more like innuendos.

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1 hour ago, SloopJonB said:

At least lightening holes are cool. :D Racers call them "speed holes".

image.png.d58b02406b0a0cefaaeb61e1866ce27f.pngimage.png.052e3e35bfe5ce31c1b1a98995064b7c.pngimage.png.98b48d901c2d3ba7b8aae5b8b29da8e5.pngimage.png.6e62b424dc48996873e667576ec449c3.png

I'd like to see those pictures but I don't have a microscope. What gives?

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9 hours ago, mad said:

There was a certain Beneteau in the UK that had a hole saw taken to every part of the interior that wasn’t structural. The boat looked like a Swiss cheese! 
It was in the shed for a while before it sold. 

There isn't much in the interior of those that is structural, unless it's one of the early Firsts from Frers. It's all in the grid now.

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7 minutes ago, kinardly said:

There isn't much in the interior of those that is structural, unless it's one of the early Firsts from Frers. It's all in the grid now.

And that’s why there wasn’t a lot left. ;)

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1 hour ago, Grande Mastere Dreade said:

closer to 500 lbs...   440 for the water say 50 for the drum...

Well if you wanna get nit-picky, the original poster never said anything about water, they called it a "gas tank", and gasoline would weigh about 330 pounds, a drum weighs about 40 pounds, so I'll go as high as 380 total if fuel.  If it was water, then your 500 estimate sounds reasonable.

Bottom line is the K25 crew musta been higher than either of those to get blown by a Shark doing whitesails...

 

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Hmmm.....back in the day, the personal boats of local builder of a very popular international keelboat class were highly sought after for being blindingly fast....yeah...so we eventually managed to get hold of one and paid a premium for it. The intention was to take it to the worlds in canada...a big exercise from where we live (melb - Oz). In doing the boat prep for the event, everything was checked...and so some anomalies began to appear....like the fact that the rudder was incredibly light (turned out to be glass over timber with even the "moulding lines and "stamp" in the fibreglass to make it look authentic) and that the layup of the cockpit was very thin with plastic hinges on the cockpit hatches...that there was a stainless steel water tank that when removed revealed a solid 1 inch thick base....and so it went on.

Decisions had to be made, so after a "chat" with the builder, an agreement was reached and a brand new replacement boat delivered for our campaign. The questionable boat was returned to the builder and never seen again.....

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Certainly a colorful gentleman , may he Rest In Peace .

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Good story on Dreyfus here.

 

How did Louisiana Crude get the nickname Shaved Tiger that's now used with affection by the members of the crew? Dreyfus isn't a braggart, but he does exude a lot of optimism—sometimes prematurely. For example, though after two races Williwaw with Conner, the flawless beast, was only 5.5 points behind Crude and selection for the Admiral's Cup team was still a battle among two dozen boats, Dreyfus proclaimed for all to hear, "I'm practicing how to curtsy to the Queen." After a day and night of rough-and-tumble sailing on the long St. Pete-Lauderdale race that counts 2.5 points per place, Dreyfus came on deck feeling particularly exuberant as the boat ripped along under spinnaker. Although he had no idea how Crude was doing compared to her rivals, Dreyfus tapped his reserve of optimism and said to navigator John Rumsey, "My God, isn't this great! Here we have a production boat, Number 18 out of the mold, and we're beating all those $300,000 custom boats."

"This isn't a production boat," Rumsey replied. "It's a shaved tiger."

"What in hell is a shaved tiger?" Dreyfus asked.

"The Mexicans take a tiger," Rumsey said, "and shave it so that it looks like a dog. Then they enter it in a dog show and it eats all the other dogs."

Although luck will always play a part in ocean racing, the technological advances of each passing year make the competition among the best-prepared boats more and more equal. The chance that a gambling skipper will win the SORC by taking a flier is decreasing. The honors usually go to the crew that has the best shaved tiger under its feet.

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2 hours ago, Somebody Else said:

I'd like to see those pictures but I don't have a microscope. What gives?

I dunno - they are about 5 sq inches each on my screen.

Must be you. ;)

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3 hours ago, KC375 said:

I grew up in Montreal, there they are more like innuendos.

I grew up in Philadelphia. They were more like markers for car jacking locations 

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5 hours ago, Raptorsailor said:

That's not a cheat, that's a necessary foodstuff.

Michelob....Well, I'll grant that is less likely to harm you than Lysol or Clorox.

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On 4/24/2020 at 6:42 PM, Grande Mastere Dreade said:

Is-this-OK-by-RRS-49.jpg

Briefly is legal.

His long is briefly?? 

At the end if his career, Brett Farve played briefly for teams other than Green Bay.

See those  boats In the  background? Certainly the the guy in the photo didn’t Mx age to hang out like that fir more than a brief stint.

Hell, the rule doesn’t say VERY briefly. 
 

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On 4/26/2020 at 2:33 AM, SloopJohnB said:

I probably do more 360's than anyone else on the race track, such mainboom touching the mark, close contacts with other boats round marks.......its amazing how many rc skippers don't do their turns.

with you  there brother....  at the IOM level  you cant have unforced errors.  I hit a few marks, and missed a few marks.  theres no coming back from that kind of self inflicted wound.

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22 hours ago, spennig said:

"The America's Cup is always won by the yacht with the best perculiarity. Australia II's perculiarity is that she was not designed by an American" -- Olin J Stephens II

 

or the keel by an Austrailian

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The Herby! :P

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On 4/26/2020 at 6:34 AM, Frick said:

The Italian team Scugnizza racing with their NM38S in the ORCi rule is one of the most recent and biggest cheating scandals here in Europe. They actually modified the boat to have hidden ballast tanks in the aft and filled them with water before being measured to get a much shorter water line, 1.4 tons (!) higher displacement and much better rating. But when racing they released out all of the water and the water line was increased, boat much faster with lighter displacement and sailed with a much better rating then the boat should have... Apparently the ballast tanks were made to look like big reinforcement pipes so they were hard to prove cheating. They won a lot of races/championships, but were finally proven to be cheating in 2016/2017 and banned from racing for a while...

Some info on the case,

https://www.sailingscuttlebutt.com/2017/04/02/gross-misconduct-decision-orc-europeans/

https://www.orc.org/SH Columns/SH ORC 2016 Dec.pdf info from ORC rule themselves about the case and two pictures showing the "measurement trim" and "sailing trim" of the cheating boat Scugnizza

https://www.clubracer.eu/2017/4/2/2016-orc-european-class-c-champion-re-crowned

So did the owner actually serve a ban?  From what I can see, they got DSQ from the event but that was it.  They seemingly destroyed the evidence, because after the event the boat was remeasured and floated in on totally different lines and weighed a LOT less... and then some time later some pictures showed up purportedly showing the water tanks below and behind the wheel well before and after removal. 

But I cannot see a record of the owner or anyone involved serving a ban.  Did the Italian Sailing Federation do anything?  

He’s coming to Newport for the IRC/ORC worlds later this year.  Different boat, same name.  Scugnizza, Vincenzo di Blasio.

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5 minutes ago, Dacron said:

So did the owner actually serve a ban?  From what I can see, they got DSQ from the event but that was it.  They seemingly destroyed the evidence, because after the event the boat was remeasured and floated in on totally different lines and weighed a LOT less... and then some time later some pictures showed up purportedly showing the water tanks below and behind the wheel well before and after removal. 

But I cannot see a record of the owner or anyone involved serving a ban.  Did the Italian Sailing Federation do anything?  

He’s coming to Newport for the IRC/ORC worlds later this year.  Different boat, same name.  Scugnizza, Vincenzo di Blasio.

There’s no way the owner or any of the crew should be allowed to race in that or any other event!! 
 

and they wonder why people can’t be bothered to race anymore. 

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On 4/26/2020 at 3:34 AM, Frick said:

They actually modified the boat to have hidden ballast tanks in the aft and filled them with water before being measured to get a much shorter water line,

Wait, adding weight to a boat sinks it down and increases waterline, no?

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9 minutes ago, Liquid said:

Wait, adding weight to a boat sinks it down and increases waterline, no?

Depends where you put it. We play with fore-aft trim in most boats to optimize for wetted area and waterline length for the conditions.

 

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25 minutes ago, Liquid said:

Wait, adding weight to a boat sinks it down and increases waterline, no?

Translation issue i think.  Article and photos indicate a massive change in trim.  Bow knuckle way up out of the water.  Could have decreased waterline since a lot of volume in the stern and very steep and covex run aft.

Article said boat increased some 2600 lbs vs previous measurement.  They figured to get that trim, there had to be +500 lb ballast in the stern and the rest somewhere amidships.  That was a lot of additional water volume - over 40 cubic feet - or a 4'x5'x2' enclosure.  Pretty hard to hide I would think unless someone was choosing to ignore it.  even the trim would have looked ridiculous at the time of measurement.  I can see why it would confer a massive rating advantage - it looks super slow.

Even the keel is one of the most ridiculous I have seen.  Heck, the whole hull for that matter.  Certainly not a planing hull - for those who think that is the only thing that matters.

 And people thought IOR was bad.

Edit 500kg not lb ballast in stern

20170402-katariina-II-2.jpg

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2 minutes ago, 12 metre said:

Translation issue i think.  Article and photos indicate a massive change in trim.  Bow knuckle way up out of the water.  Could have decreased waterline since a lot of volume in the stern and very steep and covex run aft.

Article said boat increased some 2600 lbs vs previous measurement.  They figured to get that trim, there had to be +500 lb ballast in the stern and the rest somewhere amidships.  That was a lot of additional water volume - over 40 cubic feet - or a 4'x5'x2' enclosure.  Pretty hard to hide I would think unless someone was choosing to ignore it.  even the trim would have looked ridiculous at the time of measurement.  I can see why it would confer a massive rating advantage - it looks super slow.

Even the keel is one of the most ridiculous I have seen.  Heck, the whole hull for that matter.  And people thought IOR was bad.

That makes sense. Surprised a measurer wouldn't notice the boat floating bow up...

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35 minutes ago, Liquid said:

That makes sense. Surprised a measurer wouldn't notice the boat floating bow up...

Measurer has to measure the boat as is. If it's not obviously loaded with visible crap, they might check bilge, won't check holding/fuel tanks. 

When was the last time you saw one look below or in a locker ? 

 

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On 4/24/2020 at 4:19 PM, Cristoforo said:

Know of a 3 blade prop deal  and the fact is the race organizers and regional authority who were fully informed  didn’t care.  Boat was never penalized and the race(s) weren't even rescored much less dsq.  Then the boat showed up at later races with -3 point rating change like nothing ever happened. Standard operating procedure more often than not. Most clubs  have zero interest to enforce anything especially when it’s their own member cheating or trophies have been handed out. Clubs also don’t cross check or question entry certificates even when a standard 30 year old one design enters with a rating 12 points off the standard rating. 

Sounds like YRALIS PHRF comm

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2 hours ago, 12 metre said:

Translation issue i think.  Article and photos indicate a massive change in trim.  Bow knuckle way up out of the water.  Could have decreased waterline since a lot of volume in the stern and very steep and covex run aft.

Article said boat increased some 2600 lbs vs previous measurement.  They figured to get that trim, there had to be +500 lb ballast in the stern and the rest somewhere amidships.  That was a lot of additional water volume - over 40 cubic feet - or a 4'x5'x2' enclosure.  Pretty hard to hide I would think unless someone was choosing to ignore it.  even the trim would have looked ridiculous at the time of measurement.  I can see why it would confer a massive rating advantage - it looks super slow.

Even the keel is one of the most ridiculous I have seen.  Heck, the whole hull for that matter.  Certainly not a planing hull - for those who think that is the only thing that matters.

 And people thought IOR was bad.

Edit 500kg not lb ballast in stern

20170402-katariina-II-2.jpg

The owner should be banned for life for having a boat that ugly

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A well integrated design. Had to make it ugly and weird to distract from the cheating. Smart. Who designed it?

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26 minutes ago, Kenny Dumas said:

A well integrated design. Had to make it ugly and weird to distract from the cheating. Smart. Who designed it?

And how is that unusual for rule optimized boats...

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6 hours ago, LionessRacing said:

Measurer has to measure the boat as is. If it's not obviously loaded with visible crap, they might check bilge, won't check holding/fuel tanks. 

When was the last time you saw one look below or in a locker ? 

 

In Oz, last time boat was weighed!

Measurer came on board and did a couple of random checks on lockers & a quick look round prior to the lift.

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12 hours ago, 12 metre said:

Translation issue i think.  Article and photos indicate a massive change in trim.  Bow knuckle way up out of the water.  Could have decreased waterline since a lot of volume in the stern and very steep and covex run aft.

Article said boat increased some 2600 lbs vs previous measurement.  They figured to get that trim, there had to be +500 lb ballast in the stern and the rest somewhere amidships.  That was a lot of additional water volume - over 40 cubic feet - or a 4'x5'x2' enclosure.  Pretty hard to hide I would think unless someone was choosing to ignore it.  even the trim would have looked ridiculous at the time of measurement.  I can see why it would confer a massive rating advantage - it looks super slow.

Even the keel is one of the most ridiculous I have seen.  Heck, the whole hull for that matter.  Certainly not a planing hull - for those who think that is the only thing that matters.

 And people thought IOR was bad.

Edit 500kg not lb ballast in stern

20170402-katariina-II-2.jpg

That boat is NOT the cheating MN38S..... That is the Katariina II special made One Off for ORCi. They later scrapped the pictured hull and keel since it was too slow, but kept the deck and rig while building a new hull and keel.

The increased/decreased water line you ask for is described from my side how the ORCi rule sees it. By trimming the weight aft and lift the stern the rule think you have a more "moderate" bow and gives you a shorter water line. In other words it gives you a more decreased water line according to the ORCi rule by lifting the bow then to trim down the bow and lift the aft like in the IRC rule.. For an example look at the new Italia 11.98, they have a modern bow but the rule think it's got a moderate bow because of the aft trim https://data.orc.org/public/WPub.dll/CC/122531.pdf and how it looks in reality https://www.giornaledellavela.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/03/Schermata-2019-03-08-alle-09.17.06.png

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58 minutes ago, Frick said:

That boat is NOT the cheating MN38S..... That is the Katariina II special made One Off for ORCi. They later scrapped the pictured hull and keel since it was too slow, but kept the deck and rig while building a new hull and keel.

The increased/decreased water line you ask for is described from my side how the ORCi rule sees it. By trimming the weight aft and lift the stern the rule think you have a more "moderate" bow and gives you a shorter water line. In other words it gives you a more decreased water line according to the ORCi rule by lifting the bow then to trim down the bow and lift the aft like in the IRC rule.. For an example look at the new Italia 11.98, they have a modern bow but the rule think it's got a moderate bow because of the aft trim https://data.orc.org/public/WPub.dll/CC/122531.pdf and how it looks in reality https://www.giornaledellavela.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/03/Schermata-2019-03-08-alle-09.17.06.png

Yeah, I think I mentioned that trimming the boat bow up could decrease waterline- if it was just a trim issue.

However they also increased "displacement" by some 2600 lb according to the linked article.  A boat of this size would have roughly 1000 ppi - so the boat would "sink' roughly 2.6 inches.  That amount of "sinkage" would likely increase waterline overall even with the bow up trim.

But any rule would rate a boat of this size much slower if it "displaced" 2600 lb more even with a slightly longer sailing length.  So while the extreme trim probably helped in lowering the rating, the main issue is the amount of water ballast taken on for measurement.

Still, the keel in the photo is one of the most bizarre I've ever seen.  Hull actually isn't that bad.  Probably a decent upwind shape with a high Cp - but not likely a downwind flyer and certainly is not a planing type hull.

The photo that I attached was on the linked web page - so I assumed it was the boat in question.  My bad.

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13 hours ago, LionessRacing said:

Measurer has to measure the boat as is. If it's not obviously loaded with visible crap, they might check bilge, won't check holding/fuel tanks. 

When was the last time you saw one look below or in a locker ? 

 

When I've had boats measured for an endorsed IRC rating the measurer took a good look for any crap on board.  Empty weight means what it says!  V. embarrassing he found a short length of chain hiding in a locker. 

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Two different races, Coastal Classic and a Tauranga race. 

Back end of the fleet, smallest boats. 

 

Second smallest boat, us, about 3-4 miles off the beach of Matakana island. Complete drifter. We see the smallest boat (theres a matter of a few inches between us), identified positively through binoculars, main only and making good progress close in, probably just outside the breakers... 

We finally make the finish, exhausted. And check finishing times. No mention of smallest boat. 

Prize giving next morning. Smallest boat takes prize as smallest finisher... with a self declared finish time faster than us. Given that the finish boat was still on station and recorded our finish time, it's kinda odd that they didn't see him cross the line...

 

On the Coastal, we're again ahead, and the wind drops out. anchoring 1 mile from the line. Eventually, faced with an agonising wait and exhaustion, the skipper pulls the plug. We motor to the finish recording a withdrawn (DNF). Next morning, we hear that smallest boat motored over the finish some 6h after us having motored from Brett. Gets prize (considerable value) as smallest finisher...

If you motor over the finish line, are you really a finisher? Even if you come last?

 

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I am surprised nobody has mentioned the Beneteau with the deliberately cheating prop at Big Boat Series. For those who say yacht clubs ignore these violations I am happy to say that the St.FYC unceremoniously threw them out.

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On 4/26/2020 at 3:21 PM, CriticalPath said:

Well if you wanna get nit-picky, the original poster never said anything about water, they called it a "gas tank", and gasoline would weigh about 330 pounds, a drum weighs about 40 pounds, so I'll go as high as 380 total if fuel.  If it was water, then your 500 estimate sounds reasonable.

Bottom line is the K25 crew musta been higher than either of those to get blown by a Shark doing whitesails...

 

you might be crazy enough to carry 50 gals of gas in a swinging drum,  besides back then , water was cheaper & heavier, toss a pint of gas after fill up to claim a "gas tank"

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There was the blue swan 60 OD that conveniently used to fill the park avenue boom with water when it was time to weigh in. Claiming it must have gotten in through rain water when it started to spill out! Also kept the facade of an interior with nothing behind the face plates on any appliance. 

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On 4/24/2020 at 2:28 PM, Controversial_posts said:

The only solution is to name and shame.

But if we are not willing to even do that on an anonymous internet forum, there’s no chance of calling them to account in person. And it’s demoralizing the honest sailors.

Oh yes, we hoisted the protest flag concerning the oversized spinnaker & they were booted from the regatta.  Heard rumors concerning the no prop situation during a season high point series & complained,  magically the owner had a prop on the very next race.  Still won the championship.  Concerning the oversize main and genoa issues his mea culpa was they came with the boat when he bought it, had no idea they were oversized and begged for forgiveness so the RC banned his oversize sails (got a three month ban); same with the missing cabinetry, that's the way he bought the boat, and hit him for 3sec/mile for an altered interior.

It was a five year battle with a lot of face to face interaction but the strange thing is he was an apologetic pussy during every confrontation and his line was "I didn't know I was cheating, really, aren't we here to have some fun racing, why are you targeting me my friend?"  Um, I'd point out quit cheating concerning equipment and let's race on the water instead of in the shed. And, as a PHRF Rating Committee Board member he knew full well he was cheating so was 'dissing me  to my face.  A sad situation.

If a boat is obviously out of configuration but is a tail end Charlie it'll let it slide for the sake of inflated participation numbers, but if you're a contender you'd better adhere to your cert or I (and other fleet contenders) will call you on it upon discovery.  I've protested before the start concerning missing limit bands and sure enough when measured the main is 4-12" oversized. Same with ridiculously slack lifelines.  Sorry, it's nothing personal, just want a level playing field.  This sport involves hundreds of thousands of dollars if you're  seriously wanting to win, even in PHRF, and is to an extent self policed; do your job as a competitor if you see others bending the equipment rules.

That is all.

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@axolotl , well said and I wish more people would grow a pair and either protest or address the issue . We had one boat sail an entire race two downwind legs with a guy well outside the lifelines the whole leg holding out the headsail like a human pole.  I mentioned post race , guys you cant do that. His crew says yeah we told the skipper that was illegal and he said its fine. I said to skipper if you hand me your rule book i'll show you the page, no book onboard, no smartphone to access either. They said sorry but didnt withdraw from the race, two weeks later asked for redress when they went to a MOB situation, guy was already rescued but they wanted redress to move them up a position so they could finish higher in a series. 

No wonder people walk away from club fleet racing 

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The human pole situation is one thing. That is clearly cheating and a rule 2 violation as well if you can clearly establish that the cheating was done knowingly.

Asking for redress when assisting in a MOB situation is something entirely different.  That is rule 1. Redress is freely given because the sport wants to encourage this behavior. 

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On 4/28/2020 at 4:44 AM, lydia said:

The owner should be banned for life for having a boat that ugly

So ORC is going in the same direction as IMS did with butt ugly boats? 

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22 minutes ago, George Hackett said:

So ORC is going in the same direction as IMS did with butt ugly boats? 

There were some quite beautiful late IMS optimized boats like MOMO.

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I never bother cheating when I race, cause I would lose anyways, and then I'd be known as a loser and a cheater.  I can only take so much ridicule.

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"You haven't won the race, if in winning the race you have lost the respect of your competitors."

Paul Elvstrom aka God Mk1

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Most egregious cheat? PIL66.

 

No man can remain that good looking for that long without help. But I’m buggered if I know how he does it???

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1 minute ago, Jason AUS said:

Most egregious cheat? PIL66.

 

No man can remain that good looking for that long without help. But I’m buggered if I know how he does it???

Richos hair stylist??

 Talkin'boats with Mark Richards - Soundings Online

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25 minutes ago, mad said:

Richos hair stylist??

 Talkin'boats with Mark Richards - Soundings Online

78a176b920c075382929ac119de70c61.jpg

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On 4/24/2020 at 3:28 PM, SloopJonB said:

???

If the engine was off before the start what was the problem?

What is someone arrived late and had to motor out to make the start?

uuuuh, motor has to be off as soon as the prep is up, at that point youre 'racing'. if he only turned it off at the start, he was cheating for 5 minutes.

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4 minutes ago, Mark Set said:

uuuuh, motor has to be off as soon as the prep is up, at that point youre 'racing'. if he only turned it off at the start, he was cheating for 5 minutes.

Prep is actually at four minutes not five..

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On 4/27/2020 at 4:44 PM, lydia said:

The owner should be banned for life for having a boat that ugly

It's a Helen Keller design, with the appendages designed by Stevie Wonder 

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8 minutes ago, Mark Set said:

Its not cheating if you change the rules to allow it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hEQttj8E1b0

Damn strait its not,

Soccer no picking up the ball and running with it...... Rubgy pick it up and run, but don't pass it forwards.... American football throw it forwards but only once per play and only from behind the line of scrimmage then run with it.....  ,

Change the rules and you change the game, not necessarily worse or better but certainly different.

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On 4/25/2020 at 12:17 AM, zenmasterfred said:

Oh come on now, WTF, if your weren't pushing the window for IOR measuring you weren't there.  That was how the game was played on the Grand Prix circuit.  Loved when Blackaller came back after the Crude incident with the boat re-named Mea Culpa.

Can you tell me what happened with Louisiana Crude?  I got to sail on her once, always thought she was a cool boat-  would love to hear the story-

 

Serge

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On 4/26/2020 at 7:33 PM, 44forty said:

Oh fuck don’t start on that one again mate 

Why not?

It's quite topical. And seriously weird!

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On 4/26/2020 at 10:58 AM, Al Paca said:

So if DC cheated, how much more did those limeys on Australia II have to cheat to win the Cup. 

Wow! You really are infected!

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6 minutes ago, cosmicsedso said:

Why not?

It's quite topical. And seriously weird!

Weird does not cover it!

Can't wait for the next time.

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On 4/30/2020 at 9:46 AM, Serge A. Storms said:

Can you tell me what happened with Louisiana Crude?  I got to sail on her once, always thought she was a cool boat-  would love to hear the story-

 

Serge

https://www.nytimes.com/1981/03/28/sports/3-top-yachts-suspected-of-handicap-irregularities.html

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Thanks-  Part of the history of the boat I guess!  Crazy times back in the day....

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late 70's, WLIS, I think the Vineyard or round BIock Island race. Naval Academy boat was there (donated boat with a very spongy deck). We were convinced they turned off their running lights when they tacked... They would disappear and then re-appear a few minutes later!?

I remember a drifter overnighter (Stratford Shoals Race...?) 3 am-ish, everybody was drifting really close to the turning mark. Mind games ensued, spinning winches, fake yelling, throwing nuts and bolts at the other boat's mainsail...

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On 4/24/2020 at 3:11 PM, Cristoforo said:

I don’t recall what happened there. Even if it ‘fell off’ accidentally, they were still sailing out of compliance with their certificate.  Nothing was done ? 

 

Race committee chair. Long family history with race. Short family history with propellers. Couldn't keep the damn  things attached.

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On 4/27/2020 at 7:29 AM, Couta said:

Hmmm.....back in the day, the personal boats of local builder of a very popular international keelboat class were highly sought after for being blindingly fast....yeah...so we eventually managed to get hold of one and paid a premium for it. The intention was to take it to the worlds in canada...a big exercise from where we live (melb - Oz). In doing the boat prep for the event, everything was checked...and so some anomalies began to appear....like the fact that the rudder was incredibly light (turned out to be glass over timber with even the "moulding lines and "stamp" in the fibreglass to make it look authentic) and that the layup of the cockpit was very thin with plastic hinges on the cockpit hatches...that there was a stainless steel water tank that when removed revealed a solid 1 inch thick base....and so it went on.

Decisions had to be made, so after a "chat" with the builder, an agreement was reached and a brand new replacement boat delivered for our campaign. The questionable boat was returned to the builder and never seen again.....

A J25 perhaps ?

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^^^^^^Maybe just a foot shorter huwp ;-)

 

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Many moons ago, wasn't there a J 24 kerfuffle about the core of a sliding hatch? Some big name Rock Stars boat?

What was the outcome?

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11 hours ago, huwp said:

A J25 perhaps ?

Most likely a Thunderbird.

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On 4/30/2020 at 12:04 PM, CriticalPath said:

Prep is actually at four minutes not five..

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Mast Abeam!

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18 hours ago, Couta said:

^^^^^^Maybe just a foot shorter huwp ;-)

 

That's what it was supposed to be right ?

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14 hours ago, hobot said:

Many moons ago, wasn't there a J 24 kerfuffle about the core of a sliding hatch? Some big name Rock Stars boat?

What was the outcome?

not sliding, just the hatch.  the original kept breaking so a home brewed repair was accomplished - it wasn't lighter, just stronger.  dinghy science applied

my favorite j24 scene was the first midwinters at key west (78 or 79?), first gathering of boats from other areas and first time the boats were to be measured.  whole lotta people that had cleaned up in their local areas spent the first couple of days removing or adding material to their keels and rudders

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J24 folk lore I heard: The beam was determined by the size of the garage door of the building B1 was being built in...

Is that true?

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4 hours ago, Liquid said:

J24 folk lore I heard: The beam was determined by the size of the garage door of the building B1 was being built in...

Is that true?

Yes, not just beam, length as well

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It had to fit in the garage and be able to be removed.  :D

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7 hours ago, MauiPunter said:

It had to fit in the garage and be able to be removed.  :D

had a friend who built a rowing dink, to be pulled behind his boat,  in his basement, looked beautiful until he tried to get it out

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6 hours ago, MauiPunter said:

It had to fit in the garage and be able to be removed.  :D

Fitting it in a building during the build and getting her out are 2 different things!

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1 hour ago, Liquid said:

Fitting it in a building during the build and getting her out are 2 different things!

That is why the end wall of the shed should not be brick....

The shed should also be far enough away from the next building for whatever you are planning

 

 

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Source of the Box Rule!

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7 hours ago, Grande Mastere Dreade said:

had a friend who built a rowing dink, to be pulled behind his boat,  in his basement, looked beautiful until he tried to get it out

I read about a guy who built a composite home built air plane in his basement and at some point realized he had no way to get it out.   Not sure what he was thinking.

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37 minutes ago, MauiPunter said:

I read about a guy who built a composite home built air plane in his basement and at some point realized he had no way to get it out.   Not sure what he was thinking.

 

There was a guy, years ago, who similarly built a plane in his small homes basement, on an island in the CT River, opposite the mouth of Hamburg Cove, where a friends beautiful boat sank, not long ago. I don't think he got is out, without removing some parts.   The island is still a registered air field for float planes, so long as the present and future owners maintain the orange wind sock, on a piling.  When we lived on the water nearby, we would sometimes see pilots with instructors, doing touch and go's on the river, as they were schooling for their float plane rating....

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