The Dark Knight

The Swedish Experiment

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@jack_sparrow Cases go UP when we do crazy amounts of PCR testing...  You're seeing that in the data.
That's why it's not correlated to deaths rising, or have *anything* to do with herd immunity.

What doesn't go up, is DEATHS - because the pandemic is over.
It's taken the lives of most of the vulnerable people it can kill.

The only place the pandemic lives on, is the media and social media.
Until they declare it over, everyone will be living in ignorant fear.

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38 minutes ago, BlatantEcho said:

@jack_sparrow Cases go UP when we do crazy amounts of PCR testing...  You're seeing that in the data.
That's why it's not correlated to deaths rising, or have *anything* to do with herd immunity.

Yes and you get dumber by the second.

Sweden new confirmed cases on the rise.

Sweden does fuck all testing (even mostly a fraction of WHO's min) so what does that say about "new confirmed case" numbers between Sweden and elsewhere PAST and PRESENT?

High cases = high antibodies.

This week Sweden back at work and school after long summer outdoor break so transmissions expected to now rise more, detected and undetected.

What follows new confirmed case spikes up to three weeks later? 

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1 hour ago, BlatantEcho said:

ack_sparrow Cases go UP when we do crazy amounts of PCR testing...  You're seeing that in the data.
That's why it's not correlated to deaths rising, or have *anything* to do with herd immunity.

What doesn't go up, is DEATHS - because the pandemic is over.
It's taken the lives of most of the vulnerable people it can kill.

The only place the pandemic lives on, is the media and social media.
Until they declare it over, everyone will be living in ignorant fear.

1 hour ago, jack_sparrow said:

Yes and you get dumber by the second.

Sweden new confirmed cases on the rise.

Sweden does fuck all testing (even mostly a fraction of WHO's min) so what does that say about "new confirmed case" numbers between Sweden and elsewhere PAST and PRESENT?

High cases = high antibodies.

This week Sweden back at work and school after long summer outdoor break so transmissions expected to now rise more, detected and undetected.

What follows new confirmed case spikes up to three weeks later? 

IMG_20200820_160604.jpg.ffb96cacd2e302e6a02c011b68a950f6.jpg

IMG_20200820_145456.jpg.3f02cdd131d03d25c5de57cdc33c174f.jpg

 

52 minutes ago, Flying Fish2 said:

You have a point when you look at the daily case  numbers now in the East Coast States that had the pandemic first.

 

"What doesn't go up, is DEATHS - because the pandemic is over."

"You have a point when you look at the daily case  numbers now in the East Coast States that had the pandemic first."

Complete and utter bollocks.

- One epidemic.

- Spring wave cases concentrated in highly populated NE and Washington State the two significant points of virus entry into the US, the latter the site of first case/death. Other regions cases less so.

- Summer wave concentrated in the south and the west, spring wave regions less so.

- Some eastern and mid west states incurred nearly the same amount of cases in both waves.

- Mortality rates improved in second wave due to improved treatment, inside treatment capacity and more cases coming from a lower age group that are less at risk. 

- It is still summer a period of of lower transmission rates. Other respiratory diseases will rise in winter putting load on health care.

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1 hour ago, Flying Fish2 said:

However of assistance is it has consistently had a rate of infection per capita around 20% above the national average. Therefore the "proportion" of immunity you would naturally be higher than the national average, BUT not by an irrelevant amount.

Can you explain what you mean by this statement?  I dont understand it.

Are you saying Stockholm DOES HAVE a higher level of immunity than the rest of the country?

"Are you saying Stockholm DOES HAVE a higher level of immunity than the rest of the country?"

Yes but I wouldn't have any idea the level today as there are no current studies indicating the proportions immunity in Sweden. Earlier antibody studies said Stockholm higher, but you say they are no longer relevant. The Swedish chief epidemiologist says they are but with no evidence. What I have said there is consistent with what he has said. 

How many times do you want me to repeat myself cunt?

1 hour ago, Flying Fish2 said:

You have to be careful with per capita figures on a county basis as one large cluster in a county will skew the figures.

"You have to be careful with per capita figures on  a county basis."

They are per capita cases for each Swedish province as well as nationally.

You appear to have a very large comprehension problem or are just a dead trolling cunt.

1 hour ago, jack_sparrow said:

..It is infections/cases per CAPITA (one million) and highlighting (in red) the difference between Stockholm and Sweden nationally as clearly stated in the paragraph above the graph. The graph supports what was stated there...

IMG_20200821_143636.jpg.abbc9b242415b8960ee657b33fead9cd.jpgIMG_20200821_103747.thumb.jpg.343af8ee17058015db7346ed85c078ef.jpg.f8ca6c0de5c586d2287f931ff194ee19.jpg

 

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17 minutes ago, Flying Fish2 said:

I was referring to New York and New Jersey.  However do you see any difference in seasonality factors such as temperature/humidity in the States where cases have been increasing?

Horseshit. Take your half wit sock and fuck off you trolling cunt.

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9 hours ago, Flying Fish2 said:

The study led by Professor Sunetra Gupta is one of several that model that Herd Immunity is occurring at lower levels of antibody prevalence than the much touted 70%.

Gupta wrote her PhD thesis on the transmission dynamics of infectious diseases. She is currently a professor of theoretical epidemiology in the Department of Zoology at the University of Oxford, where she leads a team of infectious disease epidemiologists. She has done research on various infectious diseases, including malaria, HIV, influenza, bacterial meningitis and COVID-19.

This is an interesting interview with Gupta - https://reaction.life/we-may-already-have-herd-immunity-an-interview-with-professor-sunetra-gupta/

I think that this Question and Answer from that article reflects what we see happening on social media;

Alastair: It’s interesting that you mentioned folklore. In the West we have this idea that we want to eliminate disease – that there’s a heroic figure who intervenes and then resets the social order. In some parts of Asia there is a very different approach, it’s more about accommodating yourself to the natural world, and cultivating a more holistic view of how you live with disaster. Things like lockdown have their own folklore.

Yes, that seems to be much of the language of it. It’s semi-religious, actually.

As you say, I’m astonished at two things. One is the bellicose language used with respect to the virus, which does point to this desire to annihilate, which seems to me strange. Maybe it has something to do with coming from an eastern tradition, but I’d like to think it’s strange because we live with infectious diseases. We do accommodate infectious diseases into our social contract, really. We know that this is a threat we have to deal with.

The other interesting issue that I’ve suddenly realised with this particular threat, is that people are treating it like an external disaster, like a hurricane or a tsunami, as if you can batten down the hatches and it will be gone eventually. That is simply not correct. The epidemic is an ecological relationship that we have to manage between ourselves and the virus. But instead, people are looking at it as a completely external thing.

What’s disappointed me about the way this has been approached is it has been approached along a single axis, which, if you like, is a scientific one. Even within that context, you could argue that it’s too one-dimensional, so we’re not thinking about what’s happening with other infectious diseases or how many people are going to die of cancer.

That’s the axis of disease, but then there’s the socioeconomic axis, which has been ignored. But there’s a third, aesthetic access, which is about how we want to live our lives. We are closing ourselves off not just to the disease, but to other aspects of being human.

4 hours ago, BlatantEcho said:

This is a really interesting nuanced difference from what social media and most politicians in the west tell people.

I'm not in that part of the world anymore, but, where I am, no one is trying to eliminate anything. They all moved on and have bigger problems than a seasonal virus.

"The study led by Professor Sunetra Gupta is one of several that model that Herd Immunity is occurring at lower levels of antibody prevalence than the much touted 70%."

"I think that this Question and Answer from that article reflects what we see happening on social media;"

"This is a really interesting nuanced difference from what social media and most politicians in the west tell people."

__________________________________________

Actually FlyingFuck2 you are both dead right about social media and @Wess that gives you and  @BlatantEcho a likey for your instructive posts in social media too. 

Where else would three fucking zealots forget to mention that Theoretical Epidemiologist Professor Sunetra Gupta led and co authored a Oxford paper dated 24 March 2020 with a really long name.

The short name is: 

"Up to half the UK already infected & immune - Only 1:1000 will require hospitalisation."  - 24 March 2020

The Times used a even shorter version;  Coronavirus may have infected half of UK population — Oxford study and left out the bit about the hospitalisation rate in real life being hundreds of times times greater. 

The only good thing is many of her peers came out in the MSM and tore her work to shreds and gave her a new arsehole. The fact her paper employed no real life data got many pretty steamed up. :lol:

Ironicaly it was published the day after lock-down started in the UK. Two weeks later daily deaths measured by excess mortality peaked at nearly 1,500. Today the UK carries the global gold medal for deaths per capita and ranked #5 in total. 

I wonder what that number would be today if they didn't do a UTurn on 13 March and continued following Swedens approach that was endorsed by her?

Don't think we would be hearing too much from you theoretical cunts now would we. :lol:

Keep up the good work on social media cunts, your honesty is truly unbelievable. 

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Spot the "common denominator"...and it's NOT that @Bruce Hudson @Hawke and @Flying Fish2 are all Kiwis. :lol:

 

On 8/17/2020 at 3:55 AM, jack_sparrow said:

Someone's having a holiday:lol:

On 8/17/2020 at 4:22 AM, MR.CLEAN said:

deliberate posting and reposting of false information about coronavirus.  dangerous.  bye.

 

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1 hour ago, Flying Fish2 said:

The point I was making is that cases per capita as a measure is not a good one to use as the data can be skewed.  For example the Jonkoping County has had 4,800 cases of Covid-19 yet has a population of only 360,000.  Hence the per capita figure being roughly 2.5 times the actual number of cases.  Your graph has it at 12,733.

So graph of Jonkoping County with a pop of 360,000 showing 12,773 cases on Day 135 is 2.5 times actual number of 4,800 cases but on what day?

OR how about

12,733 cases per million pop X 0.360 million pop = 4,584 cases on Day 135.

You are going to need better concocted bait than that sad bit of shit ...you trolling dangerous lying cunt.

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14 hours ago, Upp3 said:

Off topic: I admire how the stat.fi has translated even the , to . as decimal separator.

So enlightened… yet stat.fi refuses connections from VPNs.

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7 hours ago, BlatantEcho said:

Daily deaths in Sweden continue to be, effectively zero.

Why is this thread even open anymore?

Why??  Is it interupting your celebrations that more people died in Chile this week. Cunt 

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1 hour ago, jack_sparrow said:

Why??  Is it interupting your celebrations that more people died in Chile this week. Cunt 

 

Jack, that's pretty nasty and uncalled for.

Aren't you embarrassed when you reread what you posted?

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33 minutes ago, MRS OCTOPUS said:

Aren't you embarrassed when you reread what you posted?

You should be embarrassed that your Convid bad flu friends keep getting punted. What are you up to now 3 gone? :lol:

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On 8/28/2020 at 3:30 PM, BlatantEcho said:

Daily deaths in Sweden continue to be, effectively zero.

 

Why is this thread even open anymore?

Screen Shot 2020-08-28 at 9.28.23 PM.png

Because most are not capable of accepting truth or taking care of themselves and need the government to tell them what to do.

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On 8/21/2020 at 1:07 AM, BlatantEcho said:



What doesn't go up, is DEATHS - because the pandemic is over.
It's taken the lives of most of the vulnerable people it can kill.

The only place the pandemic lives on, is the media and social media.
Until they declare it over, everyone will be living in ignorant fear.

Im hazarding a guess that you have never had to walk into the waiting room and tell a husband, son daughter father that their wife mother daughter has passed. Because today in the USA 512 doctors or nurses had to have that conversation due to a disease which can be beat.

Im not ignoring the numbers In April we were having a 1,000 of those conversations per day in New York alone, before the doctor was needed back in the iCU to supervise the next intubation.

The pandemic lives on. The vulnerable are shut down at home, unable to return to work in any kind of crowed situation, unable to gather with family and friends .

In India it is raging through the land.

We have this disease by the shoulders and we have to work hard to bring it to its knees and then throttle it.

If you dont have the cojones for the fight. If you cant HTFU for a few remaining months until the vaccine is available, then get out of the way and let the real men and women take the fight to the disease.

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3 hours ago, Wess said:

Because most are not capable of accepting truth or taking care of themselves and need the government to tell them what to do.

Who is more believable this guy or you??

 

 

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3 hours ago, EYESAILOR said:

Im hazarding a guess that you have never had to walk into the waiting room and tell a husband, son daughter father that their wife mother daughter has passed. Because today in the USA 512 doctors or nurses had to have that conversation due to a disease which can be beat.

That conversation happens 7,600 times a day in the United States.
Day in, day out.
I'm sure you know this.


Why would doctors struggle with this compared to all the other ways people die every day?

It's not a fun conversation I imagine, but, is Covid so much harder to discuss than  drunk driving, drug ODs, suicide, murders?

People die.  That's part of life.


We have never stopped the world before for a virus like this that impacts so few people.
(ensuring everyone suffers, instead of just those who are sick)

Why this one?
Why was this time one different?

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3 hours ago, jack_sparrow said:

Who is more believable this guy or you??

 

 

I actually saw that guy and it really doesn't make a whole lot of sense. I mean surely eventually we would (even if it takes 2 million deaths, which IMO is a pretty insane estimate). 

We never had a vaccine for the 1918, 1957, 1968, or 2009 pandemics. In fact, are there any pandemics that have ever ended with a vaccine?

I'm not saying it's the correct approach, but to say that it is literally impossible to achieve herd immunity seems pretty ludicrous. The obviously has a lot to gain financially t w respect to vaccine's and imo that's enough of a bias to throw out everything he said, or at the very least take it with a grain of salt

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4 hours ago, BlatantEcho said:

Sweden average daily deaths as of this weekend: 0

Screen Shot 2020-09-01 at 7.10.51 AM.png

Simple facts that the zealots ignore. 

And then bird brain quotes a quack on CNN and wonders why nobody with a brain believes him.

Finally we have the nutters hiding scared till a vaccine.  That is the most comical.  I would rather have the disease than the vaccine.  Oh wait, that's right, I actually... oh nevermind the zealots are going to tell me again how the flu is going to kill me while I stand here living.

 

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13 minutes ago, Wess said:

Simple facts that the zealots ignore. 

And then bird brain quotes a quack on CNN and wonders why nobody with a brain believes him.

Finally we have the nutters hiding scared till a vaccine.  That is the most comical.  I would rather have the disease than the vaccine.  Oh wait, that's right, I actually... oh nevermind the zealots are going to tell me again how the flu is going to kill me while I stand here living.

 

Some people did survive Chernobyl.....:)

Gosh!  I feel better already!  Thanks!

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4 hours ago, zenyatta said:

 Actually saw that guy and it really doesn't make a whole lot of sense. I mean surely eventually we would  (even if it takes 2 million deaths, which IMO is a pretty insane estimate) ... 

...The obviously has a lot to gain financially t w respect to vaccine's and imo that's enough of a bias to throw out everything he said, or at the very least take it with a grain of salt

" 2 million deaths, which IMO is a pretty insane estimate) ..."

So you reakon 2 million a "pretty insane estimate". Well the same estimator with 100 -240k estimated dead doesn't look too insane anymore does it ??

29 March 2020

IMG_20200824_100837.jpg.3ab860e09a6a9dda0849c4b2f4abbbb5.jpg

"The obviously has a lot to gain financially t w respect to vaccine's.."

How did you dream that shit up???

He made a point of saying there are numerous non-pharmaceutical measures for staying alive and life going on WITH NO vaccine.

4 hours ago, zenyatta said:

I'm not saying it's the correct approach, but to say that it is literally impossible to achieve herd immunity seems pretty ludicrous.

24 minutes ago, Wess said:

Simple facts that the zealots ignore

And then bird brain quotes a quack on CNN and wonders why nobody with a brain believes him.

Finally we have the nutters hiding scared till a vaccine.  That is the most comical.  I would rather have the disease than the vaccine.  Oh wait, that's right, I actually... oh nevermind the zealots are going to tell me again how the flu is going to kill me while I stand here living.

 

I ask the question yet again.

If the Swedish Govt CAN'T produce ANY data to support "herd immunity" and where they have MORE riding on that than anywhere else on earth, what are people supposed to believe??

Just believe more horseshit from the bullshitters??

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5 hours ago, BlatantEcho said:

That conversation happens 7,600 times a day in the United States.
Day in, day out.
I'm sure you know this....

...Why this one?
Why was this time one different?

Lying dangerous cunt. ....

You do know where this is going don't you. :lol:

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5 hours ago, BlatantEcho said:

People die.  That's part of life.


We have never stopped the world before for a virus like this that impacts so few people.
(ensuring everyone suffers, instead of just those who are sick)

Why this one?
Why was this time one different?

Hey BE

Im not trying to diminish the economic impact we are experiencing.......but....this one was very different to any virus in my professional life time.

It has been much more infectious.  Despite the  social distancing etc over 250 million have been identified as sick and many more not identified. This dwarfs anything in previous history.

It has a significant mortality rate , which we are only just now significantly reducing as we better understand the disease .  Time has been our friend and slowing the spread helped save lives.

The world has no longer stopped. Most economies have reopened. Now its up to the world to reengage in economic activity.  Certain sectors are damaged. Some for ever because habits have changed. A vaccine will help confidence .

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4 hours ago, zenyatta said:

Ib In fact, are there any pandemics that have ever ended with a vaccine?

 

Smallpox

Dipthera

Various others. Vaccines impact on human health has been enormous.

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1 hour ago, jack_sparrow said:

IMG_20200824_100837.jpg.3ab860e09a6a9dda0849c4b2f4abbbb5.jpg

 

The definition of 'confused' but tying to fake comprehension it and failing.

I'm surprised he didn't produce a black marking pen and show what the real shape of the graph is ... according to him.

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48 minutes ago, EYESAILOR said:

It has been much more infectious.  Despite the  social distancing etc over 250 million have been identified as sick and many more not identified. This dwarfs anything in previous history.

It has a significant mortality rate , which we are only just now significantly reducing as we better understand the disease .  Time has been our friend and slowing the spread helped save lives.

I do appreciate that you are generally respectful and not totally insane here. 
That said, I think your first statement is false.  It seems like confirmation bias..

If you look closely at the daily cases vs. daily deaths, you see the very clear data
I posted a bunch of charts above.

'Cases' are skyrocketing in Europe.  
France I think is up to the same level of 'daily cases' as it had in April.
Yet no one is dying.

 

Do you know why there are so many cases?
We are looking for it. We are testing hundreds of thousands of people a day.  Of course we're going to find fragments of this thing everywhere.

But, no one in Europe is dying. 

So, who cares how many cases there are, if people aren't dying anymore.
Why aren't doctors standing up behind 'the science'  and telling the public there really isn't anything to be scared of anymore?

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40 minutes ago, BlatantEcho said:

..If you look closely at the daily cases vs. daily deaths, you see the very clear data...

Cases' are skyrocketing in Europe.  
France I think is up to the same level of 'daily cases' as it had in April.
Yet no one is dying.

..Do you know why there are so many cases?
We are looking for it. We are testing hundreds of thousands of people a day.  Of course we're going to find fragments of this thing everywhere.

So, who cares how many cases there are, if people  aren't dying anymore.

"..If you look closely at the daily cases vs. daily deaths , you see the very clear data..."

"No one is dying." 

"Do you know why there are so many cases? We are looking for it."

"So, who cares how many cases there are, if people aren't dying anymore"

US over 6.2 Million cases, around 40K plus per day new cases now dropping, with testing dropping, BUT with average of 1,000 deaths a day NOT dropping for the last 6 weeks. 

That testing, daily cases vs. daily deaths data is fact. 

You are a lying dangerous cunt. 

Egimue0WAAIcKyt.png.d7a47636b1645909a7fd449a6a70cfec.png

 

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1 hour ago, EYESAILOR said:

Smallpox

Dipthera

Various others. Vaccines impact on human health has been enormous.

I know you and your other have some experience here and I think you know I do too.  Come on; be fair.  You know very well this vaccine ain't those vaccines.  I am not trolling or joking and I think you know there is good reason to say... I would rather have covid than have THIS vaccine. If counseling my parents who are in their late 80s and poor health with many underlying comorbidity... I would agree they should take the vaccine.  For me, my kids... not so clear... and likely safer not taking it.

And the balanced approach that Sweden took sure looks better and better to me.  For many - most even - this virus is of little risk but we are doing them great damage to protect the scared, fat, and old.

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44 minutes ago, jack_sparrow said:

US over 6.2 Million cases, around 40K plus per day new cases now dropping, with testing dropping, BUT with average of 1,000 deaths a day NOT dropping for the last 6 weeks. 

This thread is about SWEDEN.  Not the USA.

It's a bit of miracle your brain has enough synaptic activity remaining to keep your heart beating.



(USA deaths are down about ~65% from their peak. FYI, learn to look a chart)

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6 minutes ago, BlatantEcho said:

This thread is about SWEDEN.  Not the USA.

And you restrict your bad flu and herd immunity narrative to national threads. No you don't so choke on it. Try this.

Have to go back to 1918 to find an increase in mortality from the previous year as big as 2020's..possibly further.

The percent increase in mortality is the biggest since cholera arrived in North America in the early 1830s.

EgNuwNxWsAIMNTP.jpeg

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13 minutes ago, BlatantEcho said:

(USA deaths are down about ~65% from their peak. FYI, learn to look a chart)

Learn to read dickhead.

54 minutes ago, jack_sparrow said:

,..  BUT with average of 1,000 deaths a day NOT dropping for the last 6 weeks. 

 

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48 minutes ago, Wess said:

And the balanced approach that Sweden took sure looks better and better to me.

Quantify/identify just one (or more) aspect(s) that Sweden enjoys that balances out it's mortality rate compared to that of its Nordic neighbours. 

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On 9/1/2020 at 1:11 AM, BlatantEcho said:

Sweden average daily deaths as of this weekend: 0

Screen Shot 2020-09-01 at 7.10.51 AM.png

That is worth bumping for the bird brain.

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1 hour ago, Wess said:

That is worth bumping for the bird brain.

"That is worth bumping for the bird brain."

Wess more valuable bumping is the question you can't answer cunt.

Exactly what  advantage has Sweden achieved?

8 months into a pandemic and you say you are a heath professional and you still answer that question despite being asked countless times cunt.

Maybe its time you fuck off cunt.

On 9/1/2020 at 10:28 PM, Wess said:

And the balanced approach that Sweden took sure looks better and better to me.

23 hours ago, jack_sparrow said:

Quantify/identify just one (or more) aspect(s) that Sweden enjoys that balances out it's mortality rate compared to that of its Nordic neighbours. 

 

This guy was a professional too in his own field too cunt.

When your sun comes out you cunts like him are a dime a dozen.

That's a lot of noisy cunts with no foundation behind them cunt words except very unpleasant outcomes.

EgQAFO5WkAAM-ix.jpeg

You Wess are just another cunt in a long line of cunts who only know one self serving tune they need to spin.

You think and hope we are all deaf, blind  and dumb cunts to that spin...

..and we don't see you cunt ....you really are a dead cunt Wess.

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On 9/1/2020 at 1:11 AM, BlatantEcho said:

Sweden average daily deaths as of this weekend: 0

Screen Shot 2020-09-01 at 7.10.51 AM.png

Wow so much anger.  This is kinda fun.  You can totally freak him and send him off his anger management program just by posting a simple graph with simple undisputed facts.  Fish on...

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3 hours ago, Upp3 said:

Hopefully Sweden doesn't get second wave. Or at least that it doesn't tax as much healthcare, as there will be lack of personnel if it ramps up like it did in spring.

https://www.aftonbladet.se/nyheter/a/na543J/sara-36-sager-upp-sig-fran-sjukhuset-vi-ar-slutkorda?s=09

I love these posts. You're insinuating something is going to happen, that won't.
BUT, if it does, you can say something unhelpful like 'huh huh, I told you so...'


Sweden is still 'finding' 500 new cases a day.  It's not like the virus just dropped off the face of the earth.
That's only 1/3 less 'cases' than in the peak of the pandemic back in April.

It's just not killing anyone in Sweden anymore....

 

They could have a second, third and fourth wave.  Or a never ending wave.  
It doesn't change that no one is dying from it anymore.
The suspectible people died, and Covid doesn't kill healthy people.  So, no number of 'scary waves' make a bit of difference to a healthy population.

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44 minutes ago, BlatantEcho said:

I love these posts. You're insinuating something happened, which actually did happen, BUT that won't happen again otherwise I look like the dumb cunt I actually am...

BUT, if it does, you can say something unhelpful like 'huh huh, I told you so...'

Fixed

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3 hours ago, Wess said:

Wow so much anger

Still no answer. 

Cat got your tongue ....no balls on board....just a all piss and wind lying cunt aren't you?

On 9/1/2020 at 10:28 PM, Wess said:

And the balanced approach that Sweden took sure looks better and better to me. 

On 9/1/2020 at 11:16 PM, jack_sparrow said:

Quantify/identify just one (or more) aspect(s) that Sweden enjoys that balances out it's mortality rate compared to that of its Nordic neighbours. 

 

 

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Why would I answer a raging lunatic who has way too much time on his hands and no understanding beyond how to google... oh right I wouldn't.  I would simply point out yet again that...

Screen Shot 2020-09-01 at 7.10.51 AM.png

Sweden seem to have done a nice job of balancing various factors including medical, economic, civil liberty restriction in such a way that their own society appears to be far less agitated than some loons who clearly have no medical or health policy background beyond endless google searches and quoting that wonderfully unbiased source of CNN.  So easy to wind you up with basic facts. Try not to have a stroke now... 

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6 hours ago, Wess said:

Sweden seem to have done a nice job of balancing various factors including medical, economic, civil liberty restriction in such a way that their own society appears to be far less agitated..

...So easy to wind you up with basic facts. Try not to have a stroke now... 

"..own society appears to be far less agitated.."

Unfortunately the Swedes don't agree with you. He is some examples of their agitation. 

You keep up the bullshitting now..you are on a roll. 

PG_2020_08.27_Global-Coronavirus_0-02.thumb.png.bd745124e8a296d1c835875465699031.pngPG_2020_08.27_Global-Coronavirus_0-03.thumb.png.e710c27ea3f887abb88ca230322b6e15.pngPG_2020_08.27_Global-Coronavirus_0-04.thumb.png.01e7985e7a095d7d7c4699db54e3644a.pngPG_2020_08.27_Global-Coronavirus_0-10.thumb.png.1667297430ba72ac1c7f3d1d4a55b667.pngPG_2020_08.27_Global-Coronavirus_0-09.thumb.png.dcb939108e84562c5706d9a690d9e519.png

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Now you are quoting PEW LOL and making my point. My gosh you are good at google but not so much at reading comprehension or health and economic policy.  But fun to play with so do play on...

I’ll just leave it there. Anyone with a brain can see you just agreed with me. 

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3 hours ago, Wess said:

Now you are quoting PEW LOL and making my point...

I’ll just leave it there. Anyone with a brain can see you just agreed with me. 

"Now you are quoting PEW LOL and making my point ..."

If you rank a score well below the mean of those 10 countries surveyed that is a fail. 

- Satisfaction with Govt response was good on the mean so included it for fairness.

- Economy - fail at > mean -6% GDP for 2020 forecast (behind all Nordic neighbours in 2nd Qtr GDP.)

- Economic Confidence fail with +20 difference.

- Life has changed - Failed and ranked 3rd highest for change (in a country that supposedly has no change) Whilst not identified unemployment ranked highly.

- More International Cooperation was required to reduce cases ranked highly

- Ditto very high amoungst the young who are interestingly less at risk.

You listed "medical, economic, civil liberty restriction"  all as positive factors. 

The above survey of Swedes indicates a fail for all three factors you nominated. 

Nice try bullshitter.

11 hours ago, Wess said:

Sweden seem to have done a nice job of balancing various factors including medical, economic, civil liberty restriction in such a way that their own society appears to be far less agitated than some loons

4 hours ago, jack_sparrow said:

Unfortunately the Swedes don't agree with you. He is some examples of their agitation. 

3 hours ago, Wess said:

Now you are quoting PEW LOL and making my point....

...I’ll just leave it there. Anyone with a brain can see you just agreed with me. 

 

 

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11 hours ago, Wess said:

  I would simply point out yet again that...

Screen Shot 2020-09-01 at 7.10.51 AM.png

But you never hoist these two charts up ...why is that I wonder. 

You keep bullshitting mate.

Excess Mortality

IMG_20200822_110731.jpg

IMG_20200828_232122.jpg

IMG_20200828_234255.jpg

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lol at 'excess mortality' - more hysteria from numbers used without context.

Let's come back to it in February 20202 - review a three year average of  deaths from '19/'20/'21.  
I'd bet $10 we will see less than a 3% change up or down over the normal annual death rate for those three years.
It's just not even a blip on the statistical radar.

Meanwhile, World Population has grown by almost 55 MILLION people in first 9 months of 2020....
Yeah, Covid is a huge problem...

 

Screen Shot 2020-09-03 at 7.11.24 AM.png

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28 minutes ago, BlatantEcho said:

lol at 'excess mortality' - more hysteria from numbers used without context.

Let's come back to it in February 20202 - review a three year average of  deaths from '19/'20/'21.  
I'd bet $10 we will see less than a 3% change up or down over the normal annual death rate for those three years.
It's just not even a blip on the statistical radar.

You don't have to wait. You can do that calculation now by assuming no more excess deaths above the baseline for the balance of 2020 and for 2021. 

Your "less than 3% change" is bullshit. 

You bullshitters love your bullshitting. IMG_20200822_110731.thumb.jpg.2f5b6e582a47fe59f1e99f2fb8d30d89.jpg

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14 hours ago, Wess said:

Why would I answer a raging lunatic who has way too much time on his hands and no understanding beyond how to google... oh right I wouldn't.  I would simply point out yet again that...

Screen Shot 2020-09-01 at 7.10.51 AM.png

Sweden seem to have done a nice job of balancing various factors including medical, economic, civil liberty restriction in such a way that their own society appears to be far less agitated than some loons who clearly have no medical or health policy background beyond endless google searches and quoting that wonderfully unbiased source of CNN.  So easy to wind you up with basic facts. Try not to have a stroke now... 

Agitation is done there by burning Quran which results in burning cars and riots. They don't waste energy to covid panic, so there is enough steam to blow on other things. 

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15 hours ago, Wess said:

I would simply point out yet again that...

 Screen Shot 2020-09-01 at 7.10.51 AM.png

...a week old and that you never make comparisons do you bullshitter.

As at 2 Sept

7 Day Rolling Average Deaths per million.

Norway  0

Finland  0.1

Denmark 0.3

Sweden  0.3

IMG_20200903_173731.jpg

 

7 Day Rolling Average New Cases per million

Finland 4.14

Norway 10.22

Sweden 13.31

Denmark 14.90

IMG_20200903_175842.jpg

 

The bullshitter just keeps bullshitting.

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Can you go back to when you were agreeing with my in your brilliant ignorance!?

17 hours ago, Wess said:

Screen Shot 2020-09-01 at 7.10.51 AM.png

Sweden seem to have done a nice job of balancing various factors including medical, economic, civil liberty restriction in such a way that their own society appears to be far less agitated than some loons who clearly have no medical or health policy background beyond endless google

10 hours ago, jack_sparrow said:

Nothing important except he agreed with me without realizing he agreed with me.

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1 hour ago, Wess said:

Can you go back..

If you insist....

7 hours ago, jack_sparrow said:

You listed "medical, economic, civil liberty restriction"  all as positive factors. 

The above survey of Swedes indicates a fail for all three factors you nominated. 

Nice try bullshitter.

giphy (25).gif

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2 Sept - Herd Immunity Is Not a Strategy

"One of the pandemic’s most insidious misconceptions is getting closer to explicit national policy. On Monday, The Washington Post reported that a top Trump medical adviser, Scott Atlas, has been “urging the White House to embrace a controversial ‘herd immunity’ strategy.

What people seem to not understand is that we do things in our country, even in some areas that are “still shut down” that would not be tolerated in Sweden." 

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29 minutes ago, jack_sparrow said:

2 Sept - Herd Immunity Is Not a Strategy

"One of the pandemic’s most insidious misconceptions is getting closer to explicit national policy. On Monday, The Washington Post reported that a top Trump medical adviser, Scott Atlas, has been “urging the White House to embrace a controversial ‘herd immunity’ strategy.

What people seem to not understand is that we do things in our country, even in some areas that are “still shut down” that would not be tolerated in Sweden." 

You heard the Washington Post was caught in a lie here, yes?

Dr Atlas directly addressed this, and said it was complete fabrication from the Washington Post.

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9 hours ago, jack_sparrow said:

You don't have to wait. You can do that calculation now by assuming no more excess deaths above the baseline for the balance of 2020 and for 2021. 

Finally, we have proof that Jack knows everything.

Let's close the site down.
He can predict if more or less people than normal will die in 2021.  

Jack, how is the weather in 2021, is it nice?

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31 minutes ago, BlatantEcho said:

You heard the Washington Post was caught in a lie here, yes?

Dr Atlas directly addressed this, and said it was complete fabrication from the Washington Post.

- The same Dr. Scott Atlas, bought into replace Fauci as his views on Covid-19 match Trump's.

- The same Dr Atlas a senior fellow at the Hoover Institution, a conservative think tank.

- The same Dr Atlas who is NOT an infectious disease expert — he’s board-certified in diagnostic radiology, which means he specializes in reading and interpreting imaging X-rays. 

- The same Dr Atlas seen here in June over 2 months ago saying this shit.

Keep up the bullshitting 

 

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10 hours ago, jack_sparrow said:

You don't have to wait. You can do that calculation now by assuming no more excess deaths above the baseline for the balance of 2020 and for 2021. 

Your "less than 3% change" is bullshit. 

You bullshitters love your bullshitting. 

40 minutes ago, BlatantEcho said:

Finally, we have proof that Jack knows everything.

Let's close the site down.
He can predict if more or less people than normal will die in 2021.  

Jack, how is the weather in 2021, is it nice?

1032595987_giphy(25).gif.534dbb15b284e3592c447d4e11bda2eb.gif

 

 "...by assuming no more excess deaths.." 

"He can predict if more or less people than normal will die in 2021. Jack, how is the weather in 2021, is it nice?".

You are banking on less than 3% cloud cover I see.

Keep up the bullshitting. 

10 hours ago, BlatantEcho said:

I'd bet $10 we will see less than a 3% change up or down over the normal annual death rate for those three years.
It's just not even a blip on the statistical radar.

 

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Some balance to make the bullshitters heads spin. :lol:

3 Sept- British Medical Journal - "Are we underestimating seroprevalence of SARS-CoV-2?"

Or in plain English are we a lot closer to achieving herd immunity to Covid-19 than has been made out? 

This paper in the BMJ suggests that we may have seriously been under-estimating the number of people who have been exposed to the virus Sars-CoV-2 and who as a result may have gained some degree of immunity to the infection.

A team led by the Biostatistics Unit at Cambridge University’s School of Clinical Medicine argues that antibody tests – used to determine if someone has had the disease in the past, as opposed to having it at the present – may have been undercounting in several ways.

Firstly, they are not sensitive enough and miss out mild cases where people have overcome the disease by producing low levels of antibodies. The tests have been calibrated, they say, on more severe cases of Covid-19, where people produced large quantities of antibodies.

Secondly, the team argues, most antibody tests only look for two types of antibody – Immunoglobulin G (IgG) and Immunoglobulin M (IgM), which are known to be the dominant antibodies in the body’s bloodborne immune system.

They fail, however, to look out for another antibody, IgA, which often acts as the body’s first line of defence against viruses and bacteria. Where tests have looked for IgA they have suggested a significantly higher level of exposure to Sars-CoV-2 than tests which measured only for IgG and IgM. In a sample of 1,862 people in Luxembourg, for example, IgG antibodies were found in only 1.9 per cent of the sample. IgA antibodies, by contrast, were found in 11 per cent. In Ischgl, the Austrian ski resort which is believed to be one of the main seats of the epidemic in Europe, antibody tests looked for IgG and IgA – and found that 42.4 per cent of the population tested positive, a level far higher than has been measured elsewhere using only IgG and IgM tests.

In June a paper by Sweden’s Karolinska Institute suggested another way in which antibody tests may have been undercounting the number of people who have had the virus. They found that many people showed an immunological response to Sars-CoV-2 in their T cells – another part of the body’s immune system – without necessarily showing antibodies in their blood.

The hypothesis that we have been undercounting the number of people who have been exposed to Sars-CoV-2 is based on limited evidence, but it demands much greater effort be put into trying to establish just how many people may now have some degree of immunity to it.

We may be fearing a ‘second wave’ which our immune systems already have well in hand.

Words by by Ross Clark writing for the Spectator.

Eg_TJ0jWAAExZ8F.png

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23 hours ago, Wess said:

Why would I answer a raging lunatic who has way too much time on his hands and no understanding beyond how to google... oh right I wouldn't.  I would simply point out yet again that...

Screen Shot 2020-09-01 at 7.10.51 AM.png

Sweden seem to have done a nice job of balancing various factors including medical, economic, civil liberty restriction in such a way that their own society appears to be far less agitated than some loons who clearly have no medical or health policy background beyond endless google searches and quoting that wonderfully unbiased source of CNN.  So easy to wind you up with basic facts. Try not to have a stroke now... 

When you say 'Sweden seem to have done a nice job of balancing various factors...', what exactly do you mean by this? Are you referring to the policies enacted by the government, or do you mean how well the citizens actually adopted those policy recommendations? These are two different things.

As a social democracy, where the highest tax bracket kicks in at 1 1/2 time the national mean income, where a certain amount of state ownership exists, broadly speaking with Sweden you have a social contract between the gov't and the private sector which is already much more intertwined than a country with less or no safety net. The acceptance of a welfare state by private citizens might implicitly point them in a direction of co-operation toward broad health targets for the whole of society, even and especially in what might be characterized as a state of emergency.

This notion that because Sweden didn't lockdown there were no restrictions on common civil liberties is misguided. Any business or corporate entity flouting or breaking Covid recommendations are still subject to fine, suspension, or full closure. As for individual citizens, compliance and co-operation is 'expected' rather than 'enforced'. 

Basic laws which restrict nominal civil liberties are all over the books in a free or relatively free society. Seatbelts, no smoking indoors etc. are all there to promote common public safety in lieu of certain individual liberties. The notion that liberties that are enjoyed in 'normal' times in a free society, cannot be removed in a state of emergency is also a stretch. 

Maybe the takeaway should be that Sweden was so good at legislating common sense, and their citizenry so conscientious at adopting it, that they haven't had to take more drastic measure such as full lockdown, and are on a more straight-line course back to normalcy, while other countries less successful in fighting the spread are perhaps failing on the most basic measures. 

 

 

 

 

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3 hours ago, jack_sparrow said:

2 Sept - Herd Immunity Is Not a Strategy

"One of the pandemic’s most insidious misconceptions is getting closer to explicit national policy. On Monday, The Washington Post reported that a top Trump medical adviser, Scott Atlas, has been “urging the White House to embrace a controversial ‘herd immunity’ strategy.

What people seem to not understand is that we do things in our country, even in some areas that are “still shut down” that would not be tolerated in Sweden." 

Congrats on posting and quoting more junk.... I can’t bring myself to call it science because it’s just junk... and being too stupid to know. 
 

Que your many sock puppets...

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Wess, are you trying to join the shit flinging for sport or are you really that dense and deranged?

JFC on a bike ... you know better than that, no?

 

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4 hours ago, Wess said:

Congrats on posting and quoting more junk. I can’t bring myself to call it science because it’s just junk... and being too stupid to know. 

"2 Sept - Herd Immunity Is Not a Strategy"

"2 Sept - Herd Immunity Is Not a Strategy"

This junk about the leader of the largest most prosperous country on earth whose Covid response advise comes NOT from an infectious disease expert — but a radiologist from a right wing think tank. The same one who predicted what wouldn't happen 2 months ago, DID happen.

You know the President who has the CDC headed by a pharma friend who sprouts less testing, reopening and where internal discussions are secret - because their dueling with the NIH and FDA...all just as you like to hear Wes.

Yeah that junk.

4 hours ago, Wess said:

Congrats on posting and quoting more junk.... 

And more junk.

Like this post has you a bit fucked up..doesn't it Wes.....you breezed over that that didn't you son...had too many professional "maybes" in it for your liking or maybe even pissed off you didn't post it first.:lol:

"Some balance to make the bullshitters  heads spin.:lol:

'3 Sept- British Medical Journal - "Are we underestimating seroprevalence of SARS-CoV-2?"

Or in plain English are we a lot closer to achieving herd immunity to Covid-19 than has been made out? .......We may be fearing a ‘second wave’ which our immune  systems already have well in hand."

6 hours ago, jack_sparrow said:

Some balance to make the bullshitters heads spin. :lol:

3 Sept- British Medical Journal - "Are we underestimating seroprevalence of SARS-CoV-2?"

Or in plain English are we a lot closer to achieving herd immunity to Covid-19 than has been made out? ..

4 hours ago, Wess said:

Que your many sock puppets...

 

If I was socked up they wouldn't have a closed off bullshitting mind like yours mate. However they would have a foot go up their arse regularly like you get from me and don't like. 

Now que your usual "I'm a professional...." and your wink wink shit Wes.... bullbullshitters.

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Anyhow, we should all thank the Swedes for conducting a full size experiment that provides at least one reliable benchmark, methinks?

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Absolutely. 

And Jack if you think I read your drivel after the first few lines to see if there is anything new or interesting or factual... sorry to say but I don't because there ain't ever.

But do keep hiding in your basement especially if you are very old, fat, or unhealthy.  Or dumb.

image.thumb.png.406cd9ebe79cd61080439b37243fe97f.png

That makes me :)

 

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17 minutes ago, Wess said:

And Jack if you think I read your drivel after the first few lines to see if there is anything new or interesting or factual... sorry to say but I don't because there ain't ever.

But do keep hiding in your basement especially if you are very old, fat, or unhealthy.  Or dumb.

image.thumb.png.406cd9ebe79cd61080439b37243fe97f.png

That makes me :)

"That makes me :)"

..... happy that your extremely retarded for posting the same shit????

16 hours ago, jack_sparrow said:

..a week old and that you never make comparisons do you bullshitter.

As at 2 Sept

7 Day Rolling Average Deaths per million.

Norway  0

Finland  0.1

Denmark 0.3

Sweden  0.3

 

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1 hour ago, Frogman56 said:

Anyhow, we should all thank the Swedes for conducting a full size experiment that provides at least one reliable benchmark, methinks?

Netherlands is a better benchmark as they don't have the social, geographic and demographic "mitigation" head start of Sweden. 

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Hmmm Jack,

Useful though, particularly perhaps in comparison with oznz?

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57 minutes ago, Frogman56 said:

Hmmm Jack,

Useful though, particularly perhaps in comparison with oznz?

I didn't say not usefull just Netherlands outcome a "better" benchmark for other western countries with advanced economies. Also the Nordic 4 of Finland, Norway and Denmark not just Sweden should also be closely looked at. 

OZ/NZ are interesting because they are SARS Asian savy so got in quick. But they also don't have the connectivity say Euro countries experience. In fact their reliance on primary export products to China whose economy still in good shape gives them a large leg up, though NZ closed down harder and so hurt harder economically.

The bit that NZ/AUST are struggling with now is how to live with it, though with summer approaching has a buffer the northern hemisphere won't enjoy.

Netherlands got in quick too but with less "suppression" and their mortality numbers show that. They are doing like Sweden and excellent job of trying to live with it and that largely is because they are two very open societies who are more willing to trade off mortality for normality compared to some others. 

IMG_20200825_080405.thumb.jpg.247a4dc9784daf79b2f388d4b6336c54.jpg

image.png.0638902a19f7ef0a45ce2a099bc5f1d4.png

This is a Utube platform for pro herders but even they get very sensible and balanced people on like this guy whose take IMO is right on the money on the subject of risk, public education and use of data in particular.

I note the host raised the issue of too much data using influenza as an example. However he forgets that influenza is in fact data poor in comparison as it has a much lower IFR and is not a notifiable disease.

 

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6 hours ago, Grog said:

Wess, are you trying to join the shit flinging for sport or are you really that dense and deranged?

JFC on a bike ... you know better than that, no?

5 minutes ago, Wess said:

OMG that is funny

 

Someone is on the money. 

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5 hours ago, BlatantEcho said:

Swedish 'Cases' down 89% from peak.
(Weekly deaths are effectively at zero)

 

Screen Shot 2020-09-04 at 7.23.02 AM.png

August 29 ...catch up bullshitter.

Keep on bullshitting you bullshitting cunt.

On 9/3/2020 at 5:59 PM, jack_sparrow said:

As at 2 Sept

7 Day Rolling Average Deaths per million.

Norway  0

Finland  0.1

Denmark 0.3

Sweden  0.3

  IMG_20200903_173731.jpg

 

7 Day Rolling Average New Cases per million

Finland 4.14

Norway 10.22

Sweden 13.31

Denmark 14.90

IMG_20200903_175842.jpg

 

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Are we all agreed that Swedish authorities and the ill judged attempt at 'Herd Immunity' are a bunch of stupid fuckwits whose leaders need to hang upside on stake stuck through their scrotums........

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We will know, with the benefit of 100% hindsight, what the nearest 'right answer' was.

Until then, STFA.

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13 minutes ago, Frogman56 said:

We will know, with the benefit of 100% hindsight, what the nearest 'right answer' was.

Until then, STFA.

No twat, all major epidemiologists agree ('cept those that appear on Fox Fuckwit News) that herd immunity is not a given to work with a virus that might be able to reinfect those that have had it, and to even get near this herd immunity not guaranteed to work would take 60% of a population to be infected, with a massive number of deaths as a result...i.e making current death rates look like a blip.

So, dumb twat, just shut the fuck up.

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