Some.Rando

New Performance Sailboat Charter in SF Bay

Left Coast Sailing  

24 members have voted

  1. 1. Would you charter a performance sailboat in the SF Bay?

    • Yes
      17
    • No
      7
  2. 2. What boat would you most want to charter?

    • Dehler 30 OD
      9
    • Sun Fast 3300
      9
    • J/99
      2
    • Other
      4
  3. 4. Would you charter for a specific race?

    • Yes - 3 Bridges
      8
    • Yes - Farallones
      9
    • Yes - Vallejo
      2
    • Yes - Corinthian
      2
    • Yes - Other
      7
    • No - I just want to cruise around
      8


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I've been looking into starting a performance sailboat charter program here in the SF Bay. I was hoping that I might get a sense of the level of interest from the SA community here, and hopefully get some feedback. My goal is to provide a reasonably priced performance sailing experience for sailors who want to sail fun new boats; whether it's the college sailor who's ready for the next challenge, the crusty old salt who wants to try racing on a planing hull, or the serious campaigner who wants to try before they buy. 

This is not an original idea. I am inspired by the folks at:

So let's see who's interested. Take the quiz. Shoot me a DM. Post below. Let's talk about boats!

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10 minutes ago, Controversial_posts said:

Unfortunately of that list, only the J/99 can be legally chartered.  Because of the (Stupid) Logan Act, vessel has to be built in the US to use in coastal charters.

I actually spoke with the owner of Club Nautique earlier today, and there is a carve-out in the Logan Act that allows for Bareboat chartering and use as a training boat. The bigger issue is getting insurance, but that's not impossible, just difficult. 

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I hope you would add Half moon bay to Monterey route to get most excitement and flexibility. Trailable performance boats  like Donovan 26 or  old Express 27  spinnaker ride would be short bucket list adventure for any adrenaline/nature  junkie .

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48 minutes ago, Jari said:

I hope you would add Half moon bay to Monterey route to get most excitement and flexibility. Trailable performance boats  like Donovan 26 or  old Express 27  spinnaker ride would be short bucket list adventure for any adrenaline/nature  junkie .

I can picture it now, blasting down ocean swell in 25 knots, boat speed averaging 15+ knots for over an hour straight. I'll need to get some cameras and a drone in order to make some Disneyland style roller-coaster shots. 

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5 hours ago, Controversial_posts said:

Unfortunately of that list, only the J/99 can be legally chartered.  Because of the (Stupid) Logan Act, vessel has to be built in the US to use in coastal charters.

J/99’s are built in France. Doh.

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What could possibly go wrong with chartering high performance sailboats and sending them out into the Pacific Ocean for joy rides with noobs?  Just Asking'.

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Bay Wolf is a Santa Cruz 50 available for charter in SF. Class act. Good role model.

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51 minutes ago, zenmasterfred said:

What could possibly go wrong with chartering high performance sailboats and sending them out into the Pacific Ocean for joy rides with noobs?  Just Asking'.

Hence why insurance is nontrivial. I would require US Sailing Bareboat certification for sailing inside the Bay, and CPM for anyone wanting to leave the Gate. 

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You've got a $150-250k boat that you can charter for 10-15 events a year.   How much do you think you could "charter" a race boat for a single day race?   If you don't charter during the week, catering to the SF Bay visitor you won't make a dime.   If you do everything right you could stand to make tens of dollars!

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The only model ive seen work is the “Ocean Racers” guys. They run a high performance boat in offshore races, and take on crew who pay 3-5k for the opportunity. I think they are stuck down in the Caribbean right now though.

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36 minutes ago, Some.Rando said:

I would require US Sailing Bareboat certification for sailing inside the Bay, and CPM for anyone wanting to leave the Gate.

Will your insurance cover sail & riggings damage?  Probably not after they pay for a couple $4,000 spinnakers or a $50k carbon rig.  

That bareboat certificate is for newbies who want to charter a Beneteau or Lagoon down in the Caribbean, it teaches nothing about handling a asym planing high performance race boat.

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Do you think a start up race charter business is going to work in the Covid-19 era?  This proposal maybe one of the greatest expressions of optimism of the day as all the other mature marine charter businesses are struggling for the next 18 to 24 months and many of race governing associations and sponsoring yachts clubs watch their base erode.

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3 hours ago, Black Jack said:

Do you think a start up race charter business is going to work in the Covid-19 era?  This proposal maybe one of the greatest expressions of optimism of the day as all the other mature marine charter businesses are struggling for the next 18 to 24 months and many of race governing associations and sponsoring yachts clubs watch their base erode.

The timeline to actually opening the business is lengthy. Even if I ordered the boat tomorrow the it/they wouldn't be ready until the 2021 season, but yes, I am optimistic. I think that modern equipment might attract more of us youths to sailing programs, I'm personally not interested in sailing J/22's and J/24's that were built when Gerald Ford was president. Not to mention the Mixed Offshore event added to the Olympics for 2024 which will be raced on one of these boats, that's where aspiring sailors will be looking to hone their skills. Probably. 

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19 hours ago, Controversial_posts said:

The only model ive seen work is the “Ocean Racers” guys. They run a high performance boat in offshore races, and take on crew who pay 3-5k for the opportunity. I think they are stuck down in the Caribbean right now though.

They bought the boat from Fast Sailing in Greece 

Thry have a stable of cool boats to charter and have done very well 

I think they have a Pogo 50, 2 Pogo 1250’s a 36 and a 30 

dehler 30

and a few other fast 45-59 footers 

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19 hours ago, Controversial_posts said:

Will your insurance cover sail & riggings damage?  Probably not after they pay for a couple $4,000 spinnakers or a $50k carbon rig.  

That bareboat certificate is for newbies who want to charter a Beneteau or Lagoon down in the Caribbean, it teaches nothing about handling a asym planing high performance race boat.

Most people won’t charter a planing boat as they are afraid of them but tbere are a lot of performance sailors that know what they are doing and would jump at the chance

i chartered a Pogo 1250 in Greece for 10 days of.cruising around and it was awesome 

in fact Ocean Racers bought the boat I had chartered (Hermes) 

rhe boats in Greece  were pretty well booked all season 

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It takes years, sometimes decades to sail successfully with a coordinated crew and a well prepared boat on the Bay during Summer.

Seen so many mishaps, and that's with top teams.

I can't imagine handing over a new Dehler 30 OD to a charter group and letting them have at it. Nobody will insure that risk.

 

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43 minutes ago, Irrational 14 said:

It takes years, sometimes decades to sail successfully with a coordinated crew and a well prepared boat on the Bay during Summer.

Seen so many mishaps, and that's with top teams.

I can't imagine handing over a new Dehler 30 OD to a charter group and letting them have at it. Nobody will insure that risk.

 

FWIW, SailTime (boat timeshare) in Annapolis runs a jeaneau something on Wed night races; PHRF A2 or B I think. They always seem to bring out a respectable crew and have a good time from the looks of it.

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I can picture it now, blasting down ocean swell in 25 knots, boat speed averaging 15+ knots for over an hour straight. I'll need to get some cameras and a drone in order to make some Disneyland style roller-coaster shots. 

How many people can charter a boat for one time use and do that?   Most boats that show up regular to ocean races in boats capable of doing that, don't and can't.    Which of those boats can AVERAGE speeds of 15+ knots for over an hour straight?   None is the correct answer.  My boat is faster than all those you listed, finished first in many Farallones, overall in Windjammers, etc. and we have a tough time in perfect conditions averaging 15kts for an hour.    

Let me ask you this.....   have YOU EVER averaged 15k+ in a 30'fter offshore?   

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True!  Averaging over 15 requires at least one good driver and minimum 1 good trimmer (at least to do so relatively safely).  Yes, there are people who can do so singlehanded but they are few and the consequences of a mistake could be significant.  Not to mention that when you're going fast something often comes loose or breaks, then you'll need a competent simian to safely handle that.  If somebody gets flushed off the boat at that speed in cold water your chances of getting them back alive are not great.  Interestingly, the people who are actually qualified to do so might have difficulty proving it on paper.  Sure sounds fun though.  

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For racing,  the market for this service would be someone who is experienced enough to do a race (either shorthanded or with a crew) but doesn't have access to a boat ?   I think this market is -very- small..

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Perhaps the solution is to structure it as an academy rather than bare boat charter. Provide the coaching staff and boats like a high performance J/World. 

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On 5/5/2020 at 6:42 PM, solosailor said:

How many people can charter a boat for one time use and do that?   Most boats that show up regular to ocean races in boats capable of doing that, don't and can't.    Which of those boats can AVERAGE speeds of 15+ knots for over an hour straight?   None is the correct answer.  My boat is faster than all those you listed, finished first in many Farallones, overall in Windjammers, etc. and we have a tough time in perfect conditions averaging 15kts for an hour.    

Let me ask you this.....   have YOU EVER averaged 15k+ in a 30'fter offshore?   

Only 30 footer I've averaged 15+ on offshore doesn't have lead and has two extra hulls. 

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Invictus is a nice Sun Fast.. 3600? Not 3300... Wouldn't mind seeing more of that style boat on the water.

Absolutely 0 votes for the new J/99 ouch. Gonna be a rough year for that parent company.

I don't see a charter market for sport boats on the bay. I would like to see club nautique and... orsc? Offer a Spinnaker Cup offering each year. Spinnaker Cup is a great first taste into offshore sailing, the regatta has been growing year over year, and it's only 19 hours

Honestly they've had J/105 in the past, at least buy a pair of new J/105 so that people can transition into the existing popular fleets. Or buy a new Express 27. I heard that the class still owns the molds. If they're building Antrim 27 then they can build a new Express 27.

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Provide the coaching staff and boats like a high performance J/World. 

A "high performance" J/World would be on boats much faster than the short list.  J/World already does just that on boats much faster than the ones he intends to purchase... turbo'd Santa Cruz 50 and a DK46 right? 

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28 minutes ago, solosailor said:

A "high performance" J/World would be on boats much faster than the short list.  J/World already does just that on boats much faster than the ones he intends to purchase... turbo'd Santa Cruz 50 and a DK46 right? 


Try J/105 and J/120 mostly. The fast boats are mainly reserved for the big races. Perhaps it’s just me, but while fast, a crew that outnumbers a Volvo team on a 50fter is incredibly unappealing when you virtually the same result can be realized with modern design and only 2 onboard. I’d certainly rather learn the short handed skills. 

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Try?   Hmmmm.....  I thought they used J/80 for classes mainly.   Sometimes J/105 for team events, etc.      The used to have a J/120 but that was sunk by a whale like over a decade ago.  For charters they have the SC50 turbo and DK.    Please explain "virtually the same result"?    

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On 5/6/2020 at 1:45 AM, Irrational 14 said:

It takes years, sometimes decades to sail successfully with a coordinated crew and a well prepared boat on the Bay during Summer.

Seen so many mishaps, and that's with top teams.

I can't imagine handing over a new Dehler 30 OD to a charter group and letting them have at it. Nobody will insure that risk.

 

Well, thankfully, some actually do insure such a risk. As a matter of fact, we have a Dehler30 OD for charter in Greece (next to the Pogos). I can assure you, we have much less damage (and claims) than all other companies around chartering Beneteaus, Bavarias etc. Our clients are way more knowledgeable and respectful than "standard" charterers.   

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How do you determine who is qualified to handle your boat?

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1 hour ago, meaftias said:

Well, thankfully, some actually do insure such a risk. As a matter of fact, we have a Dehler30 OD for charter in Greece (next to the Pogos). I can assure you, we have much less damage (and claims) than all other companies around chartering Beneteaus, Bavarias etc. Our clients are way more knowledgeable and respectful than "standard" charterers.   

You will find it much harder to get a US company to insure this risk, than in Europe. Can't even get offshore insurance for a boat <32' in the US.

 

 

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wouldn't it be cheaper and cooler to charter these two twins out for all those events. They are for sale, inexpensive, fun, already set up and ready to go. Based on their PHRF could be a good balance and a test to see if this was a viable business.

 

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On 4/30/2020 at 12:56 PM, Controversial_posts said:

Unfortunately of that list, only the J/99 can be legally chartered.  Because of the (Stupid) Logan Act, vessel has to be built in the US to use in coastal charters.

I think you mean the Jones Act.

 

The Jones Act is a federal law that regulates maritime commerce in the United States. The Jones Act requires goods shipped between U.S. ports to be transported on ships that are built, owned, and operated by United States citizens or permanent residents.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Merchant_Marine_Act_of_1920

 

The Logan act deals with Foreign Governments.

 

The Logan Act (1 Stat. 613, 18 U.S.C. § 953, enacted January 30, 1799) is a United States federal law that criminalizes negotiation by unauthorized American citizens with foreign governments having a dispute with the United States.

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