Nekaj

Crousing Code Zero / Code 0 ... advice

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Hi,

I’m considerin adding Code 0 to my sail setup. I have Elan S5 (E5) with OneSails 4T main sail and jib, and a gennaker. Intended use is ability to sail in low wind conditioons (3-6knots) where gennaker or jib do not work that well. No racing!

Question is:

1) Laminate vs nylon?

2) Cordless or with cable?

I guess I’ll need to add 2:1 halyard if I decide for cable option as I curently do not have that instyalled (sailmaker sayes it’s not necessary).

Of course lamninate is more expensive than nylon and cordless even more. Is it worth the differnece in price? I also like the idea that cordless laminate version is lighter and easioer to handle as most of the time I sail shorthanded and I also plan to start singlehanded sailing...

I’m looking at One Sails IFS version of FFR sail (their crousing version of Code 0)

What is your experiences? Anyone who upgraded from nylon to laminate and from cable to cordless version? How did you find the difference? I know the theory but how is real life experience between those versions.

Thanks all in advance!

Vasja

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One Sail is not easily available in the US. More than a year ago I saw a One Sail advertisement which included a video of their cableless aysms and code zero My emails to them in Australia were unanswered. Since then they have opened a loft on the east coast of the US. Within the last year there have been several threads of SA about cableless asyms and code zeros.

 
Looking at their current website it appears that the code zero you are interested in, the FFR is a cabled sail and not IFS. Look at the luff sag in the picture and compare it to the PFR code zero which is IFS.  I think the FFR is more of a speciality sail designed to be closer winded than the PFR but with less overall range. To me, I think the PFR is the better bet for a cruising application.
 
If you decide to go with the FFR be aware of the problems associated with a two part halyard. The two parts tend to wrap around themselves as the sail is raised. When you tension the halyard they really jam together and when the halyard is released the tend to stay jammed. I have gone up the mast several times to untwist them to get the sail down. I have switched to a three part tackle in the tack line to tension the code zero luff.
 
How is the One Sail gennaker working for you? I assume that it is an IFS sail. How well does ti furl? The video showed an asym furling on a slack halyard with a tight furl but it didn't show it from the beginning of the furl. Do you need to tighten the luff initially to get the furl started?
 

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@sailorma44 - thanks for replay. I’m form Europe and here they are one of the biggest shops locally. 

 

my gennaker is not fruling. it is with sock and that works well. but I prefer furl due ease of use.

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May I suggest an A3 either with external or internal top-down furling?  I have the internal version, but, in hind sight, should have gone external.  It will give the sail a bit wider sailing angle which will be good for cruising? 

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Here is the A3 with internal top down furling.

876F768D-4647-432B-BC7A-8BC8BF935F53.jpeg

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46 minutes ago, George Hackett said:

Here is the A3 with internal top down furling.

 

Thank you George. Noted. I'm looking at A3 offered by OneSails in their racing downwind section. It looks like a much more deep shape sail and it's intended for stronger winds (12-23 vs 4-22 for FFR in crossing). possibly names and terminology differs slightly between sailmakers. 

Yours looks like nylon on the photo - is that correct? How does it work? 

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7 hours ago, Nekaj said:

Thank you George. Noted. I'm looking at A3 offered by OneSails in their racing downwind section. It looks like a much more deep shape sail and it's intended for stronger winds (12-23 vs 4-22 for FFR in crossing). possibly names and terminology differs slightly between sailmakers. 

Yours looks like nylon on the photo - is that correct? How does it work? 

Yes, nylon. .9oz 

becuase it is cable internal, we use it for reaching and close reaching only.  It I had gone external cable, we could sail a little deeper as the luff can be rotated. 

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I race on an Elan S4 down here in Oz with a full OneSails inventory.  4T main, #2 (that reefs down to #4), and kites from Oz loft, older #1 and kites from original sail package. 

We have two code sails on furlers, a Code Zero and what we call the J Zero.

Both one the standard masthead halyard (dyneema cored) but I added a 2:1 tackline which has worked great.

The Code Zero is laminate and is a weapon from 60deg to about 100deg in 0-12 knots.

The J Zero is the same size as the #1 and with the #3/4 set inside it and a reef in the main is an absolute weapon in 70-110deg heavy hair reaching, adding 1-2 knots of boat speed compared to full main and #2 in 20 knots @ 90deg.

One thing is we added downhauls on the sheets which helped alot with getting the leech a little more closed.

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Hi @mezaire , 

Thank you for this insight, really helpful. 

I'm primarily cruising, not racing, therefore I guess OneSails FFR will probably suit me best (I do not need to follow racing rules).  

I'm also leaning towards cordless laminate right now. I guess I can avoid adding 2:1 (sailmaker said there would be less tension and for light wind (my intended use) use anyway 2:1 is not required. I can always add 2:1 later if needed. Price is higher but I guess there is enough benefit in investing a bit more.

Not sure if I'll add UV protection. probably not at start, but if I find benefit in keeping it on the rig I might consider that as well at later stage. 

Do you have bobstay fitted to your bowsprit? If yes how is it fitted?

Thanks.

Best,

Vasja

 

 

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On 5/6/2020 at 3:59 AM, Nekaj said:

Hi @mezaire , 

Thank you for this insight, really helpful. 

I'm primarily cruising, not racing, therefore I guess OneSails FFR will probably suit me best (I do not need to follow racing rules).  

I'm also leaning towards cordless laminate right now. I guess I can avoid adding 2:1 (sailmaker said there would be less tension and for light wind (my intended use) use anyway 2:1 is not required. I can always add 2:1 later if needed. Price is higher but I guess there is enough benefit in investing a bit more.

Not sure if I'll add UV protection. probably not at start, but if I find benefit in keeping it on the rig I might consider that as well at later stage. 

Do you have bobstay fitted to your bowsprit? If yes how is it fitted?

Thanks.

Best,

Vasja

 

 

Hey,

No bobstay fitted, standard Selden bowsprit, probably only 4ft extended though.

You're right, 2:1 not needed for a FFR.

One other thing to think about.....we have found the S/S spectacles at the masthead that the kite halyard passes through, is very harsh on any cover on the halyard.  It seems that when you try to get luff tension via halyard after the sail is set, the spectacle is very good at bunching the cover up, causing chafe and then breakage.  This wasn't an issue pre-code zero.

We ended up going back to stripped dyneema tips on the halyards and getting tension via the tackline.  We do get some wear on the dyneema tips still but I end for end and re-tip the kite halyards after 2 seasons and then replace the halyard 2 seasons later.  IMHO 4 seasons out of a kite halyard on a boat that probably races 30 times a year isn't too bad

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Hi, 

Thank you ! This is really helpful. 

I also have standard Selden bowsprit and have seen previous owner had fitted bobstay trough the water drain holes of the anchor chain compartment. Attached is an old photo. When I got the boat it was already removed. 

I'll keep my eye on halyards. Thanks for the info. 

Still leaning on Full Laminate version with  IFS of  FFR. Alternative is combination of laminate and nylon for FFR with IFS (integrated furl structure). less expensive but not that much...

What furlers are you using - I have an offer for Selden CX25

 

1 (53).jpeg

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Selden furlers supplied by the sailmaker, have been fine!

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On my old Jeanneau Sun Odyssey I bought a sail that my sailmaker called a "code 1". It was like a code 0 made from nylon on a Selden CX25 roller and I initially used a selden bow sprit with no bob stay and the normal spin halyard.  In less than 5 knots I could sail about 40 apparent. It was a fantastic sail for days where I'd struggle to move with the heavy 135% Genoa.

 

tumblr_mbbzgmDplT1qfrdcro3_1280.jpg

 

 

 

 

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Later I bought a North G2 and with an adapter from Selden, the CX25 could be used for top down furling.

 

tumblr_nrllyhxxpB1qfrdcro8_1280.jpg

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Hi,
I've chatted with sailmaker and decided to go for a cruising adopted version of cordless Code 0 in laminate. Both material and design are adopted to my style of use and as I've had good experience with this sail loft I'll trust them. all your comments also helped!

I'll also add bobstay to bowsprite as it's probably safer to protect it and no additional rework is needed (only some 6mm dyneema).

Will let you know how it works once delivered and tested. 

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Got new sail last Friday and tested it in a light breeze. Happy :-)

Red is my gennaker.. 

IMG_5909.jpeg

IMG_5920.jpeg

 

IMG_0967.jpeg

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