Sign in to follow this  
jamesmalcolm

J/24 - Tillotson-Pearson vs Performance Sailcraft

Recommended Posts

Is there any difference between the 2500 or so Tillotson-Pearson made J/24s and the 500 Performance Sailcraft J/24s or are they both generally the same? What is the difference between an American made J/24 vs and Italian or Argentinian one?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There could be at least a book, maybe two, written on the topic.  What sort of specifics are you looking for?  Are your interests racing, cruising, or just collecting a choice example at the bargain price in the current economic climate?

There are differences both minor, and some that could be considered by some to be major, but as any major championship results list can attest to, the 4-6 teammates aboard seem to be just as or more important than finding some supposed unicorn J24.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

About all that seems to matter is the keel was done in Austin 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
20 hours ago, Gouvernail said:

About all that seems to matter is the keel was done in Austin 

By Stu Johnstone?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, JimBowie said:

By Stu Johnstone?

There is a fellow in Austin who seems to have figured out how to accomplish the ultimate tweak on  J-22 and J-24 keels .

my J-22 is in his shop right now. Last week it got this new bulkhead. (sorry!! The photo rotated when I uploaded it )74CA3B4C-B7C3-4741-9C1D-21022ADCDB1C.thumb.jpeg.27c3a46adaa396a7f6eb2e3ea2ac1e29.jpeg

  • Like 1
  • Downvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 hours ago, Not the fake Quattro said:

But really...

 

The fastest keel on a J24 (current world champion) came from PNW.

 

 

Funny... I believe it came from the texan Gouv. Credit where it is (way past) due. Congrats. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yes, the boat he boat came from Texas.

The keel design was done in the PNW.  The credit is due an engineer in Gig Harbor.

 Several boats here have the same keel.

We spent a few weeks improving Furio before Miami.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Was so cool to see a Seattle boat win. They definitely earned it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Varan,

I totally agree.  It was great to see on many levels.  KW did a masterful and complete job of preparing boat and crew. 

But its not over.  We have been discussing more ideas on how to make the boat even better.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have owned several J24s.  I had a Performance SailCraft boat and I can say they are a better quality than the TPI boats.  They were built slower with a little more care.  The keel was max forward and minimum thickness from the factory on a 1979 boat.  They took some time to fair the keel.  The boat was much more symmetrical than others I had been on.  It was also dead on minimum weight with no correctors.   Although I eventually pulled the verm, it never got soft around the keelbolts.  Don Trask was the builder of those boats and he was very proud of them.  He told me once that they were selling a lot of boats to San Fran so he wanted to make sure they would hold up.    

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On ‎5‎/‎30‎/‎2020 at 8:14 PM, Gouvernail said:

About all that seems to matter is the keel was done in Austin 

This is why the uprate/downrate button needs to include a LOL button.  Thanks Gouv, needed that. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This is what I have been told.

Paul Bogataj is the designer of the keel shape.  He is a friend and we have had a few conversations about his designs and this boat specifically.  Harden used his design and did an over the top job of putting the shape on this boat and one or two others.  If you changed it at all you were going against the orders of the new owner.  He did ask for the hull epoxy to be touched up (wrinkles) but do not touch the keel.

We don't consider your work a factor in the worlds win.  sorry

Did you put the carbon rudder on the boat?

And its unclear in your post, are you claiming this is a Harden keel or your design?

The work I did with the owner here in Seattle was about deck layout, mast, mast slider, traveler, lifelines, new rudder, new strings, etc.

 

Quattro

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 6/18/2020 at 8:30 AM, Not the fake Quattro said:

Did you put the carbon rudder on the boat?

 

 

Quattro

 

I know nothing about a carbon rudder on any J-24 ever.

I havent read the rules recently but my recollection is “rudders must be builder supplied.”

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yes, rudders must still be builder-supplied. If the Worlds winner somehow snuck a carbon rudder on, there'll be torches and pitchforks.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, J24TrickBag said:

Yes, rudders must still be builder-supplied. If the Worlds winner somehow snuck a carbon rudder on, there'll be torches and pitchforks.

Two rudders were sold with the boat. Each was a standard builder supplied rudder. 
I have deleted most of my comments as I am convinced the conversation was with the wrong person, in the  wrong place, for the wrong reasons. 
 

I had a lot of fun spending a few weeks bringing a really nice ten year old sailing toy up to “Wow!! That’s really pretty.”

Seeing it win a world championship a few weeks later was heart warming because I enjoyed interacting with the owner and gratifying because somebody used my product to accomplish exactly what he wanted to accomplish. 
 

One thing is  certain:

Had I steered the boat, it would not have won.

i think I am Probably done with this conversation. 

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think as always a lot of this has to do with the team, not the boat. Everybody is talking about a Texas keel but where I'm from, it was a Waterline Systems keel that was all the rage. Mookie, #2934 if memory serves, was the epitome of speed but it also depends upon the team sailing it and that team was top notch.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So disappointed you removed your post. 

Too bad really, I think we share a lot of the same interests.  I think we both love sailing.  We make our living on boats.  I think our strength is, and we get a great reward from making things work better.

 

Yes, two rudders came with the boat.  One was wrapped in carbon.  We shipped it off to an owner for his PHRF J24.  It was never used.

 

Quattro

 

 

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, Not the fake Quattro said:

So disappointed you removed your post. 

Too bad really, I think we share a lot of the same interests.  I think we both love sailing.  We make our living on boats.  I think our strength is, and we get a great reward from making things work better.

 

Yes, two rudders came with the boat.  One was wrapped in carbon.  We shipped it off to an owner for his PHRF J24.  It was never used.

 

Quattro

 

 

 

 

 

I didn’t do the repair as I wont cross a class rule for any boat for any sailor  

but

i do remember something about a crack  around the lower gudgeon and some carbon in the repair.

I wouldn’t complain if somebody did that to his rudder but I would suggest that rudder never be used to try to win anything share anybody might care . 
 

Wrapping  the whole rudder would require major material removal to make room and... would take more time than building a new rudder....   I say a full wrap crosses to the wrong side of the Class rules.... Way past 

 

I deleted my descriptive posts because I didnt like the flow of the conversation or  mention of things that simply aren’t details that  need to be aired in a public forum.

The fact is I spent way over 100 hours on the boat. I don’t remember whether I used almost six gallons or almost eight gallons of VC Performance Epoxy.  
The boat wasn’t perfect when it left my shop. If I had schedule time to spend another fifty hours I could  have improved it just a little more but I couldn’t have made the boat any faster. 
 

I did all the work myself. The fantastic fellow who has worked with me for the last fifteen years and who spent 12 years at another sail boat repair shop before he joined my team  pretty much stopped by the hoist, watched, and shook his head. 
The boat came in as an ignored old sailing toy thst hadn’t had any maintenance in ten years and left with a  bottom that was as good as any other boat at the worlds. 
You have no idea how much I contributed to THAT  boat winning the worlds.

note: I believe the same five guys could have jumped on any of about fifty other boats and won, but without me, THAT boat probably wouldn’t have been that nice that soon. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 6/15/2020 at 11:23 AM, Bash24 said:

I have owned several J24s.  I had a Performance SailCraft boat and I can say they are a better quality than the TPI boats.  They were built slower with a little more care.  The keel was max forward and minimum thickness from the factory on a 1979 boat.  They took some time to fair the keel.  The boat was much more symmetrical than others I had been on.  It was also dead on minimum weight with no correctors.   Although I eventually pulled the verm, it never got soft around the keelbolts.  Don Trask was the builder of those boats and he was very proud of them.  He told me once that they were selling a lot of boats to San Fran so he wanted to make sure they would hold up.    

I'm assuming they hold up better than TPI boats as well? PS boats always seem to sell a bit higher than TPI boats of the same year.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
15 minutes ago, jamesmalcolm said:

I'm assuming they hold up better than TPI boats as well? PS boats always seem to sell a bit higher than TPI boats of the same year.

Really ?? We have had about 70 J-24 in Austin over the years. Newest two were A Rhode Island 2004 Mr Happy and The similar vintage Italian boat discussed sbove. 

1. The ONLY difference I have noticed among American boats is every year’s boats were a little better than those built previously . 
2. The only for certain west coast boat Had a thicker sump by a full centimeter.  Maintenance wise the boat was a disaster with more rot orobkems than any other boat at the ckub

BUT

The owner really WAS NOT a maintenance freak 

Currently it is  a great candidate for harvesting the fittings and lead...

so far about ten of the seventy have been chopped up. 
 

Summary... as the above doesn’t really say anything...

comparing forty year  old J-24’s relative quality seems like a waste of time.

Get the newest nicest one you can afford 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this