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dachopper

First Effective Treatment Imminent

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14 hours ago, MR.CLEAN said:

BIllions have already been spent amongst dozens of labs and pharmcos to lock up the distrib rights.  If there's one thing billionaire businessmen are good at it is locking up rights!

I was thinking it's not necessarily a bad thing if the company that finds a cure partners up with multiple pharmas to deliver it asap. They will still get royalty out of it, but possibly with significantly more market penetration and advertising for free, and most of the companies never designed their treatments for ARDS, they just happen to treat it meaning they will have other less urgent indications - their primary use indications that can be kept in shop for their own expansion later.

 

The other side of the coin, is a bunch of small - single companies trying to ramp up production with  stem cell treatments to a level never seen before with stem cells anywhere on earth. It's completley unchartered territory, and there could be a serious undersupply in that case.... then again maybe they know exactly what it would take to deliver thousands of doses a day, and that is the reason for the 138 million capital raise. 

Most stem cell manufacturing facilities have cost between 40 and 60 million to build in recent years.

Share price has started the stairway climb up to boarding level of the space craft too. :ph34r:

 

 

 

 

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I love the optimism of the Pharmaceutical Marketing..

From Mederna..

"Moderna has vaccinated dozens of study participants and measured antibodies in eight of them. All eight developed neutralising antibodies to the virus at levels reaching or exceeding the levels seen in people who've naturally recovered from Covid-19, according to the company."

so they injected at least 24 people ("dozens") and 8 have developed anitbodies.  33% at best success rate. 

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21 hours ago, dachopper said:

Share price has started the stairway climb up to boarding level of the space craft too. :ph34r:

More accurately 15 years ago spaceship "Mesoblast" took off, but fell slowly back to earth diluting equity fuel on the way down. Took off again 5 years ago diluted, but now with water in the fuel so has been spluttering ever since and still in the atmosphere. Some CoVid fuel now tried to get it into space, but can't seem to break the pull of gravity and get through an altitude of $4 and stay there.

So today shareholder passengers now worried if the ladder is long and strong enough to stay there long enough to board even this close to earth. The crew safe unlike the passengers as they have golden parachutes.

PS. Captain Tom what was your average buy price pre trading halt compared to your buy the early afternoon of halt being lifted at AUD$2.28?

IMG_20200519_151207.jpg

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.... 15 years ago they started laying the bricks to build the building that would house the sapceship....

Spaceship is now ready for liftoff, engines are being fuelled, final test being conducted....... T minus 26 days remaining.

 

:)

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10 hours ago, SCARECROW said:

I love the optimism of the Pharmaceutical Marketing..

From Mederna..

"Moderna has vaccinated dozens of study participants and measured antibodies in eight of them. All eight developed neutralising antibodies to the virus at levels reaching or exceeding the levels seen in people who've naturally recovered from Covid-19, according to the company."

so they injected at least 24 people ("dozens") and 8 have developed anitbodies.  33% at best success rate. 

Well that's more encouraging than the results from hydroxychloroquine

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1 hour ago, dachopper said:

.. 15 years ago they started laying the bricks to build the building that would house the sapceship....

Actually their only skill in last 15 years is writing press releases and new share certificates diluting existing shareholder capital, burning up that cash injection and going again and again.

The only skill they have.

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2 hours ago, dachopper said:

.... 15 years ago they started laying the bricks to build the building that would house the sapceship....

Spaceship is now ready for liftoff, engines are being fuelled, final test being conducted....... T minus 26 days remaining.

 

:)

I’ve been cautious since the first reply - great if it pans out, not surprised or disappointed if it fails like most trials in medicine. 
 

What will you do if it fails?

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57 minutes ago, Miffy said:

What will you do if it fails?

Hence my question of the OP...then is he attached to the stock emotionally or bail now and make a profit??

10 hours ago, jack_sparrow said:

PS. Captain Tom what was your average buy price pre trading halt compared to your buy the early afternoon of halt being lifted at AUD$2.28?

IMG_20200519_151207.jpg

 

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17 hours ago, SCARECROW said:

I love the optimism of the Pharmaceutical Marketing..

From Mederna..

"Moderna has vaccinated dozens of study participants and measured antibodies in eight of them. All eight developed neutralising antibodies to the virus at levels reaching or exceeding the levels seen in people who've naturally recovered from Covid-19, according to the company."

so they injected at least 24 people ("dozens") and 8 have developed anitbodies.  33% at best success rate. 

We are all peons in this corrupt game of maximizing financial returns. 

Step 1. Accept gov role

Step 2. Manufacture a leak that gets stock inflated  

Step 3 . Divest out of “ethical” concerns

https://www.latimes.com/business/story/2020-05-18/moderna-coronavirus-vaccine-divestment

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13 hours ago, jack_sparrow said:

Actually their only skill in last 15 years is writing press releases and new share certificates diluting existing shareholder capital, burning up that cash injection and going again and again.

The only skill they have.

And lucky they did that, without burning up that capital the world would still have no treatment for kids with AGVHD.

The company would not have another 3 treatments ready for approval in a couple months either.

 

All startup companies go through the capital valley of death... biotechs in particular and usually for longer if they make it at all.

The smart use of capital is what got the company to the launchpad where it is today, years in the making because that's the current reality in approving medicines unfortunately.    

 

And those same fund manager opinions that you are parroting on here complaining about how much capital the company uses, is a serial capital raiser, has produced nothing  of substance..... they couldn't get their cheque books out fast enough to oversubscribe in the last raising..... Instead of selling the day the shares were issued on the market for a 25% immediate gain..... they held and the price went up.  I think that says enough

T minus 25 days

 

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13 hours ago, Miffy said:

I’ve been cautious since the first reply - great if it pans out, not surprised or disappointed if it fails like most trials in medicine. 
 

What will you do if it fails?

I'll wait another 2 months for the FDA to approve Rynocil - for what it was designed for ( AGVHD ), and for the other 2 Phase 3 blockbuster results to be released.

The beauty of stem cell treatment vs a drug treatment, is that the more they research, the more benefit they find in different areas for the same treatment.

 

https://www.newscientist.com/article/2151104-chronic-back-pain-stem-cell-treatment-could-cut-need-for-opioids/

"In experiments in sheep, these cells completely rebuilt damaged vertebral discs, prompting Silviu Itescu of the firm Mesoblast in Melbourne, Australia, and his team to try the technique in people."

 

I know i know, that was in sheep...... but - this is not a drug either, stem cells are stem cells 

 

What if all 3 phase 3 trials fail and the FDA does not approve Rynocil even though it demonstrated excellent efficacy......... that is so unlikely in my opinion, I'll pack my stuff and buy a ticket to mars.

 

The real question is:

What will you do if it continues doing what it has done so far in all the tests..... 

Answer - watch the world go round, at least you will know of a treatment that definitively works in case you know of anyone who needs it. 

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1 hour ago, dachopper said:

And those same fund manager opinions that you are parroting on here complaining about how much capital the company uses, is a serial capital raiser, has produced nothing  of substance..... they couldn't get their cheque books out fast enough to oversubscribe in the last raising..... Instead of selling the day the shares were issued on the market for a 25% immediate gain..... they held and the price went up.  I think that says enough

Actually no. You forgot the bit about those cheque books not being their own and those fund managers are predominantly from 2nd, 3rd and lower gambling tiers and who are "doubling down" on capital raisings, again on other people's cheques they have already written.

You really like making shit up. You are made for this game. 

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1 hour ago, dachopper said:

I'll wait another 2 months for the FDA to approve Rynocil - for what it was designed for ( AGVHD ), and for the other 2 Phase 3 blockbuster results to be released.

The beauty of stem cell treatment vs a drug treatment, is that the more they research, the more benefit they find in different areas for the same treatment.

 

https://www.newscientist.com/article/2151104-chronic-back-pain-stem-cell-treatment-could-cut-need-for-opioids/

"In experiments in sheep, these cells completely rebuilt damaged vertebral discs, prompting Silviu Itescu of the firm Mesoblast in Melbourne, Australia, and his team to try the technique in people."

 

I know i know, that was in sheep...... but - this is not a drug either, stem cells are stem cells 

 

What if all 3 phase 3 trials fail and the FDA does not approve Rynocil even though it demonstrated excellent efficacy......... that is so unlikely in my opinion, I'll pack my stuff and buy a ticket to mars.

 

The real question is:

What will you do if it continues doing what it has done so far in all the tests..... 

Answer - watch the world go round, at least you will know of a treatment that definitively works in case you know of anyone who needs it. 

Two-edged sword.  The very properties that promise 'miraculous cures' suggests that 'unforeseen adverse effects' could be equally impressive. Adverse auto-immune response to introduced stem cells (or their differentiated progeny) could produce symptoms, 'cytokine storm', etc, rivaling those of infection.  Not something to "lets just see if works" under a near panic situation.  Probably a moot point, scale-up to match cases is a Herculean task.

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The beauty of real medicine and biology is it doesn’t matter what you or I believe- the trial will succeed with or without the puffery and premature declaration of victory. The continuous inaccuracies and initial claim re the company being some small Australian lab just makes it seem suspect. 
 

what I love about biotech is how everything can be rapidly retooled to chase liquidity. 
 

got an orphaned drug to treat a specific immune condition that happens to 20,000 people? Sponsor a trial and leak the news and watch your stock fly. 

stem cell promises have been around for over 20 years. I’m still waiting for the miracles to get me a good knee. 

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1 hour ago, PHIRKIN said:

Two-edged sword.  The very properties that promise 'miraculous cures' suggests that 'unforeseen adverse effects' could be equally impressive. Adverse auto-immune response to introduced stem cells (or their differentiated progeny) could produce symptoms, 'cytokine storm', etc, rivaling those of infection.  Not something to "lets just see if works" under a near panic situation.  Probably a moot point, scale-up to match cases is a Herculean task.

The trial is allready completely finshed, it was going for a few years..... plenty time to identify "cytokine storms' or other serious side effects and halt the trial, which did not happen. They appear to be one of the safest possible treatments available.

Now simply presenting the results. - the COVID-19 trial is ongoing though

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1 hour ago, Miffy said:

The beauty of real medicine and biology is it doesn’t matter what you or I believe- the trial will succeed with or without the puffery and premature declaration of victory. The continuous inaccuracies and initial claim re the company being some small Australian lab just makes it seem suspect. 
 

what I love about biotech is how everything can be rapidly retooled to chase liquidity. 
 

got an orphaned drug to treat a specific immune condition that happens to 20,000 people? Sponsor a trial and leak the news and watch your stock fly. 

stem cell promises have been around for over 20 years. I’m still waiting for the miracles to get me a good knee. 

Why don't you give these guys a call in Perth then, and get it fixed :rolleyes:    

 

https://www.orthocell.com.au/cartilage-regeneration

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Something is not adding up here.

Why would Mesoblast seek Australian Government backing to launch local clinical trials of its CoVid treatment in a country with currently only 47 Cases hospitalised and only 11 Cases in ICU? 

What is actually really happening in the US, a no better clinical trial epicentre for them you could find?

Mesoblast seeks federal backing for Australian coronavirus trials

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1 hour ago, jack_sparrow said:

Something is not adding up here.

Why would Mesoblast seek Australian Government backing to launch local clinical trials of its CoVid treatment in a country with currently only 47 Cases hospitalised and only 11 Cases in ICU? 

What is actually really happening in the US, a no better clinical trial epicentre for them you could find?

Mesoblast seeks federal backing for Australian coronavirus trials

Two reasons I can think of

1. Australia is expecting a surge in cases once it moves out of lockdown.... as looks like is starting to happen now in both VIC and NSW  and

2. The Trial in america is for sales only in america, to sell the drug in another country they either need to re-do the trials or if allowed carry across part of the US trial results. Each country has it's own rules and requires it's own applications and red tape. So no trials in Australia probably means the drug will never be available in Australia

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1 hour ago, dachopper said:

Two reasons I can think of

1. Australia is expecting a surge in cases once it moves out of lockdown.... as looks like is starting to happen now in both VIC and NSW  and

Wow so Govt haven't told anyone that Australia is about to experience a surge of cases except Mesoblast, and are desperate for a solution.

1 hour ago, dachopper said:

2. The Trial in america is for sales only in america, to sell the drug in another country they either need to re-do the trials or if allowed carry across part of the US trial results. Each country has it's own rules and requires it's own applications and red tape. So no trials in Australia probably means the drug will never be available in Australia

Really Australia requires a duplication of local compliance trials for drugs released in Aust?

Go look up what accreditation and verifying overseas manufacturers' compliance with the same standards as their Australian counterparts as administered by Therapeutic Goods Administration (TGA) who are responsible for the quality, safety, efficacy and timely availability of drugs and medical devices in Australia. A system common around the world.

Are you really sure your on top of this pharma investment game??

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5 hours ago, jack_sparrow said:

Wow so Govt haven't told anyone that Australia is about to experience a surge of cases except Mesoblast, and are desperate for a solution.

Really Australia requires a duplication of local compliance trials for drugs released in Aust?

Go look up what accreditation and verifying overseas manufacturers' compliance with the same standards as their Australian counterparts as administered by Therapeutic Goods Administration (TGA) who are responsible for the quality, safety, efficacy and timely availability of drugs and medical devices in Australia. A system common around the world.

Are you really sure your on top of this pharma investment game??

Definitely not.....

But ontop of the best potential treatment with the best chance of success... I believe I am. 

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Prophylactics/Therapeutics is simply not where it’s at, profitability wise for the BIG Pharma biz.

Defo when it’s a decades out of patent outdated generic anti-malarial. New high-tech vaccines are where it’s at.

Odd don’t you think when in France HCQ has published success?


https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1477893920302179

Note the caveat: Early treatment!!

Perhaps Trump reads scientific papers while in bed of an evening as he adds critical Zinc into his personal regime?

BTW, Bill Gates pumps millions of dollars into International media groups:
https://www.mintpressnews.com/faux-generosity-how-bill-gates-bought-his-power-and-influence/263208/

It’s likely just a coincidence that his vaccines program gets such upside press.

 

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2 hours ago, Marinatrix447 said:

Odd don’t you think when in France HCQ has published success?
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1477893920302179

Note the caveat: Early treatment!!

Some important things to note:

  1. The study excluded patients with contra indications for hydroxychloroquine (HCQ), so of the initial pool of 1,411 candidates, 350 were excluded (25%)
  2. All participants tested positive, but some were asymptomatic
  3. There was no control group
  4. The average age of participants was 43.6 years with standard deviation 15.6 years so most of the participants were under 60 years old (persons under 15 were excluded), so mostly comprised of people who would expect a good outcome regardless
  5. 8 patients died, giving a mortality rate of about 0.75%. The case fatality rate (CFR) for Covid-19 is extremely hard to determine as testing has been limited so results vary widely. e.g. this table showing CFR for various age groups in various countries. Using worldometers.info and expressing CFR simply as total deaths to total cases as a percentage, France has a CFR of 14% and Australia a CFR of 0.014%. So the study's 0.75% looks brilliant in France but really shit in Australia. Iceland, which has done more testing per head of population than any other country other than Faeroe Islands, has a CFR of 0.55%. Again, far better than the study achieved.

At best the study shows that HCQ didn't kill anyone and might have helped some, however without a control group it's impossible to tell. Overall, the study is inconclusive.

PS. This article gives some idea of the wildly varying CFRs around the world.

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The amount of quacks with no prior trial or scientific experience before covid19 who have suddenly become ace at interpreting data for conspiracy theorists are the flat earthers of sailing. 

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3 hours ago, Miffy said:

The amount of quacks with no prior trial or scientific experience before covid19 who have suddenly become ace at interpreting data for conspiracy theorists are the flat earthers of sailing. 

And the sad reality is.... you have Fauci who does have prior trial and scientific experience..... Dr Fauci interpreting data the way he is infront of the media....... 

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Posted (edited)

^^^ And though on a personal tragedy level - this vid is compelling story telling - surely the bigger question is if they’d been given a prophylactic cheap pill treatment, pre infection or within the first 48hr timeframe of symptoms, perhaps they would have avoided ICU time, and the vast expense incurred?

 

Edited by Marinatrix447

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1 hour ago, Marinatrix447 said:

^^^ And though on a personal tragedy level - this vid is compelling story telling - surely the bigger question is if they’d been given a prophylactic cheap pill treatment, pre infection or within the first 48hr timeframe of symptoms, perhaps they would have avoided ICU time, and the vast expense incurred?

 

Maybe - but it appears that there is data to back up that cheap prophylactic pills are not effective for the type of people that end up on ventilators.

 

RESULTS

Of 1446 consecutive patients, 70 patients were intubated, died, or discharged within 24 hours after presentation and were excluded from the analysis. Of the remaining 1376 patients, during a median follow-up of 22.5 days, 811 (58.9%) received hydroxychloroquine (600 mg twice on day 1, then 400 mg daily for a median of 5 days); 45.8% of the patients were treated within 24 hours after presentation to the emergency department, and 85.9% within 48 hours. Hydroxychloroquine-treated patients were more severely ill at baseline than those who did not receive hydroxychloroquine (median ratio of partial pressure of arterial oxygen to the fraction of inspired oxygen, 223 vs. 360). Overall, 346 patients (25.1%) had a primary end-point event (180 patients were intubated, of whom 66 subsequently died, and 166 died without intubation). In the main analysis, there was no significant association between hydroxychloroquine use and intubation or death (hazard ratio, 1.04, 95% confidence interval, 0.82 to 1.32). Results were similar in multiple sensitivity analyses.

CONCLUSIONS

In this observational study involving patients with Covid-19 who had been admitted to the hospital, hydroxychloroquine administration was not associated with either a greatly lowered or an increased risk of the composite end point of intubation or death. Randomized, controlled trials of hydroxychloroquine in patients with Covid-19 are needed. (Funded by the National Institutes of Health.)

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On 5/21/2020 at 7:02 AM, Miffy said:

The amount of quacks with no prior trial or scientific experience before covid19 who have suddenly become ace at interpreting data for conspiracy theorists are the flat earthers of sailing. 

There are dozens of multi-billion dollar ethical and bio-technical pharmaceutical companies in the world with thousands of researchers and physicians working for them with decades of experience, but really ... we all know the true breakthroughs in treatment and cure are bound to come from some guy posting on a sailing website.  

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On 5/19/2020 at 4:04 PM, Miffy said:

We are all peons in this corrupt game of maximizing financial returns. 

Step 1. Accept gov role

Step 2. Manufacture a leak that gets stock inflated  

Step 3 . Divest out of “ethical” concerns

https://www.latimes.com/business/story/2020-05-18/moderna-coronavirus-vaccine-divestment

 

54 minutes ago, dachopper said:

Why would you sell stock if you thought your vaccine was going to work     :blink:

 

https://edition.cnn.com/2020/05/22/investing/moderna-coronavirus-vaccine-stock-sales/index.html

How are you surprised?

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Posted (edited)
4 minutes ago, Miffy said:

 

How are you surprised?

Not really.... all the companies getting headline treatment are the same ones that don't work very well / if at all.

 

I need to revise my timeline for the Mesoblast good news however, I think it might come between June 15 and July 15th now. 

 

Note that so far this year, Mesoblast board members have only purchased more shares and sold none, currently up 2 - 300 %. 

Edited by dachopper

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Sailing Anarchy speak your mind....

(It would seem not)

These last few weeks… if I post anything that mentions HCQ at all… it gets deleted or edited out, by A. N. Other administrator.

Let’s see if this post lasts more than a few hours?

https://www.thelastamericanvagabond.com/top-news/killer-enterprise-how-big-pharmas-most-corrupt-companies-plans-corner-covid-19-cure-market/

 

 

 

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18 minutes ago, Marinatrix447 said:

Sailing Anarchy speak your mind....

 

(It would seem not)

 

These last few weeks… if I post anything that mentions HCQ at all… it gets deleted or edited out, by A. N. Other administrator.

 

Let’s see if this post lasts more than a few hours?

 

https://www.thelastamericanvagabond.com/top-news/killer-enterprise-how-big-pharmas-most-corrupt-companies-plans-corner-covid-19-cure-market/

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I have not experienced any editing of content like that, and there has been some weird shit posted.  Tell me about the editing?

 

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Tell me about the editing?

The blank box at #130 is kinda self-evident...  :o

Previously, several times in fact the whole post was simply edited/deleted out...

Am I bothered... not really just find it kinda surpising... due to what Anarchy is meant to represent?

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On 5/20/2020 at 2:05 PM, dachopper said:

T minus 25 days

So who are you shilling for again?

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1 hour ago, Marinatrix447 said:

Tell me about the editing?

The blank box at #130 is kinda self-evident...  :o

 

Previously, several times in fact the whole post was simply edited/deleted out...

Am I bothered... not really just find it kinda surpising... due to what Anarchy is meant to represent?

 

I believe you, but haven't seen anything like that here before.  There is some truly odd shit that gets posted here and it sticks.

We have climate denial and all versions of gun lies, racial taunts and obvious lies about all sorts of subjects ... still here.

So what is it that keeps getting deleted?

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6 hours ago, dachopper said:

Why would you sell stock if you thought your vaccine was going to work     :blink:

 

https://edition.cnn.com/2020/05/22/investing/moderna-coronavirus-vaccine-stock-sales/index.html

 

6 hours ago, astro said:

Hahahaaaa

You wouldn't.

Insider transactions can reveal a lot about the company and its executives. For that reason and because of the informational advantage insiders have there is quite close scrutiny of and reporting requirements for insider trades.

To promote a narrative based on insider trading without the easily available context (and ideally a bit of independent research) is the height of laziness and or an intentional effort to manipulate the stock price.

There are many reasons an insider may sell stock.

  •        They know the stock is grossly overvalued and they want out. (Easier to pull off in a penny stock than a company like this with a valuation in the billions);
  •        The company represents 99.999% of their net worth and any sane person particularly one over 45 would look to diversify;
  •        Their “equity” exposure is all in options that vest at certain price points so creating some liquidity as the stock reaches those points might reflect an executives desire to consume as much as their view on the future value. If most of your compensation is in “equity” often in the form of options, then selling stock may mean kids tuition to pay and the family car is end of life (yes the tuition maybe $30k a year private school and car may be an MB AMG 500 but there is still a “felt” need for cash).
  •        ....a whole bunch of other reasons that don’t necessarily indicate bad acting.

So any responsible observations about insider trading would include some readily available facts and some facts easily researched.

Do these execs have deep pockets with this stock being less than half their net worth (e.g. this is their third time around with two previous exits with big pay days)? (Easy enough to infer with a bit of research) If so then selling stock is particularly indicative of over pricing.

What share of their exposure to the company did they sell. (Available info) If it is 10% then that is more like sensible monetization and portfolio balancing. If it is 50% that seems more like running for the exits.

Are these execs mostly compensated with options and limited base cash comp and they have been with the company long enough that living on a small share of total comp might be a strain? (Available info) Then selling may simply be more about keeping up the Joneses than pessimism about the company.

In this case a very low level of research...bothering to read half the story brings in paragraph 5:

  The securities transactions were done through automated insider trading plans, known as 10b5-1 plans, that lay out future stock trades at set prices or on set dates.

That is really important. It does not take away all the informational value of the insider trade but it does suggest the selling was not based on recent / short term information about the company like the recent trials.

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10 minutes ago, KC375 said:

 

Insider transactions can reveal a lot about the company and its executives. For that reason and because of the informational advantage insiders have there is quite close scrutiny of and reporting requirements for insider trades.

To promote a narrative based on insider trading without the easily available context (and ideally a bit of independent research) is the height of laziness and or an intentional effort to manipulate the stock price.

There are many reasons an insider may sell stock.

  •        They know the stock is grossly overvalued and they want out. (Easier to pull off in a penny stock than a company like this with a valuation in the billions);
  •        The company represents 99.999% of their net worth and any sane person particularly one over 45 would look to diversify;
  •        Their “equity” exposure is all in options that vest at certain price points so creating some liquidity as the stock reaches those points might reflect an executives desire to consume as much as their view on the future value. If most of your compensation is in “equity” often in the form of options, then selling stock may mean kids tuition to pay and the family car is end of life (yes the tuition maybe $30k a year private school and car may be an MB AMG 500 but there is still a “felt” need for cash).
  •        ....a whole bunch of other reasons that don’t necessarily indicate bad acting.

So any responsible observations about insider trading would include some readily available facts and some facts easily researched.

Do these execs have deep pockets with this stock being less than half their net worth (e.g. this is their third time around with two previous exits with big pay days)? (Easy enough to infer with a bit of research) If so then selling stock is particularly indicative of over pricing.

What share of their exposure to the company did they sell. (Available info) If it is 10% then that is more like sensible monetization and portfolio balancing. If it is 50% that seems more like running for the exits.

Are these execs mostly compensated with options and limited base cash comp and they have been with the company long enough that living on a small share of total comp might be a strain? (Available info) Then selling may simply be more about keeping up the Joneses than pessimism about the company.

In this case a very low level of research...bothering to read half the story brings in paragraph 5:

  The securities transactions were done through automated insider trading plans, known as 10b5-1 plans, that lay out future stock trades at set prices or on set dates.

That is really important. It does not take away all the informational value of the insider trade but it does suggest the selling was not based on recent / short term information about the company like the recent trials.

So are you saying that they were forced to sell the options the moment they vested?   Or they decided to sell all of the options the moment they vested?

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4 minutes ago, dachopper said:

So are you saying that they were forced to sell the options the moment they vested?   Or they decided to sell all of the options the moment they vested?

I said neither of those things.

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1 hour ago, dachopper said:

So are you saying that they were forced to sell the options the moment they vested?   Or they decided to sell all of the options the moment they vested?

FWIW, people do occasionally want to buy things or actually diversify the positions.  In fact, its also common to have to sell options to pay taxes.  Not everyone is Amazon.

Here's the company records (https://simplywall.st/stocks/us/pharmaceuticals-biotech/nasdaq-mrna/moderna?utm_medium=finance_user&utm_campaign=integrated-pitch&utm_source=yahoo&blueprint=870106#management)

Here's the filing (https://investors.modernatx.com/static-files/03ba600f-801d-4609-a7fb-332ac507f76f)

Here's the two guys in question:

Tal Zaks, Chief Medical Officer
Tenure, 5.17yrs, Age 53
Compensation (per year), US$4.83m
Company Ownership, no data

He sold 125K shares for about $10 million

Lorence Kim
Position, CFO & Treasurer
Tenure, 6.08yrs
Age, 45
Compensation (per year), US$3.60m
Company Ownership, 0.31% $83.0m 1.2m shares

Although not listed, to get to $30 million total, he sold ~ 250K shares

-----

First pass is it looks like they both liquidated about 20% of their positions.  Given that they live in the People's Republic of Cambridge, they probably needed to cover closing costs as they move out of a typical 2 bedroom bungalow into a 3 bedroom ranch.

 

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nothing to see here. move along, move along.  Anyone check disclosures to see the terms of the 10b-5 plan?

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9 hours ago, dachopper said:

Why would you sell stock if you thought your vaccine was going to work     :blink:

 

On 5/19/2020 at 3:22 PM, jack_sparrow said:

More accurately 15 years ago spaceship "Mesoblast" took off, but fell slowly back to earth diluting equity fuel on the way down. Took off again 5 years ago diluted, but now with water in the fuel so has been spluttering ever since and still in the atmosphere. Some CoVid fuel now tried to get it into space, but can't seem to break the pull of gravity and get through an altitude of $4 and stay there.

So today shareholder passengers now worried if the ladder is long and strong enough to stay there long enough to board even this close to earth. The crew safe unlike the passengers as they have golden parachutes.

PS. Captain Tom what was your average buy price pre trading halt compared to your buy the early afternoon of halt being lifted at AUD$2.28?

IMG_20200519_151207.jpg

 

9 hours ago, astro said:

Hahahaaaa

You wouldn't.

 

8 hours ago, Miffy said:

 

How are you surprised?

 

8 hours ago, dachopper said:

Not really.... all the companies getting headline treatment are the same ones that don't work very well / if at all.

I need to revise my timeline for the Mesoblast good news however, I think it might come between June 15 and July 15th now. 

Note that so far this year, Mesoblast board members have only purchased more shares and sold none, currently up 2 - 300 %. 

19 May - "Some CoVid fuel now tried to get it into space, but can't seem to break the pull of gravity and get through an altitude of $4 and stay there."

PS. Captain Tom what was your average buy price pre trading halt compared to your buy the early afternoon of halt being lifted at AUD$2.28?

Today "I need to revise my timeline for the Mesoblast good news however, I think it might come between June 15 and July 15th now."

"Mesoblast board members have only purchased more shares and sold none, currently up 2 - 300 %."

Capt Tom have you heard of the words; "promoter support", "gravity" and "golden parachute"??

IMG_20200524_004955.jpg

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Good cutting, pasting and highlighting skills..  I give you an "A"  sticker for effort.

 

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On 5/23/2020 at 10:02 PM, KC375 said:

 

Insider transactions can reveal a lot about the company and its executives. For that reason and because of the informational advantage insiders have there is quite close scrutiny of and reporting requirements for insider trades.

To promote a narrative based on insider trading without the easily available context (and ideally a bit of independent research) is the height of laziness and or an intentional effort to manipulate the stock price.

There are many reasons an insider may sell stock.

Some years ago (late '90s), Bill Gates would sell 40,000 Microsoft shares every month so as to capitalise his holding in a way that the market couldn't infer anything from the sale. I don't know if he still does it.

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Some more good news, 3 external peer reviewed articles that all endorse the product MSB are using to treat Covid - 19, for the treatment of AGVHD which is an inflammatory condition not unlike ARDS.

Big points were:

Consistent benefits seen in patients experiencing greatest levels of inflammation ( in Graft verses Host Disease )

These results support using Remestemcel-L  to treat Covid or ARDS patients who are also under cytokine storm and experiencing  the greatest levels of inflammation.

 

I would expect,  since the treatment works particularly well in the lungs, that the benefit for Covid or ARDS use, would be much higher than the benefit for AGVHD where the inflammation can be in other areas like liver or skin. From my understanding it is more difficult for the cells to reach some of the AGVHD target areas ( like skin or gut for example) with the lungs being the first place the cells go when injected via IV, and logic would dictate that they would be more effective in that area as a result.

 

Getting closer !   

 

https://www.asx.com.au/asxpdf/20200525/pdf/44j2qyg8xbbqj2.pdf

 

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6 hours ago, dachopper said:

Some more good news, 3 external peer reviewed articles that all endorse the product MSB are using to treat Covid - 19...

Market thought the news was shit ...closed down at $3.68. You got enough height to bail out?

Maybe they should try the pet sector?

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15 minutes ago, jack_sparrow said:

Market thought the news was shit ...closed down at $3.68. You got enough height to bail out?

Maybe they should try the pet sector?

A couple reasons for that - It wasn't really new news. They just agreed with what the company findings on the original company trial report was, and generally the market hates mesoblast.

Realistically for them it means the FDA are extremely likely to license this in under 4 months as they were waiting for peer reviews to come out before their opinion.

 

If they had of disagreed then there would probably have been a crash.

It gives me another month...... maybe two to loadup some more  :)

 

If you want to see the good news......

On the 28/29th May the company is presenting to the International Society of Cell and Gene Therapy's annual meeting with their pre-trial results from using Remestemcel_L in Covid-19. While the outcomes are common knowledge ( over 80 percent survived while only 10% who were not recieveing the treatment survived ). What is not yet common knowledge is a lot of the other data points, how quickly after recieveing the cells the data points changed etc. I imagine they will probably talk about those items in the meeting.

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31 minutes ago, dachopper said:

A couple reasons for that - It wasn't really new news. They just agreed with what the company findings on the original company trial report was,  and  generally the market hates mesoblast.

What is not yet common knowledge is a lot of the other data points, how quickly after recieveing the cells the data  points changed etc. I imagine they will probably talk about those items in the meeting.

So 2 identical ASX announcements for the same thing or only one and there wasn't an original one when there should have been one.

Market hates companies who are untrustworthy. This crowd appear to be experts at that.

"Not yet common knowledge" is called insider trading. Information is either in the public domain or it isn't. There is no half way house for information to reside called "not yet common knowledge."

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2 hours ago, jack_sparrow said:

So 2 identical ASX announcements for the same thing or only one and there wasn't an original one when there should have been one.

Market hates companies who are untrustworthy. This crowd appear to be experts at that.

"Not yet common knowledge" is called insider trading. Information is either in the public domain or it isn't. There is no half way house for information to reside called "not yet common knowledge."

More or less yeah. They announced their successful Phase 3 trial results and then X  months later, independent peers review the data and form their opinions and release their own articles on the same topics. It's just the way it is in medicine. 

 

By the way you should google what insider trading actually is rather than guess incorrectly.

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4 hours ago, dachopper said:

By the way you should google what insider trading actually is rather than guess incorrectly.

By the way you need a good memory in this business .... you should eat more carrots.

On 5/14/2020 at 12:55 AM, jack_sparrow said:

It is an offence under the Corporations Act to trade using inside information, or communicate inside information to others who will, or are likely to, trade on the inside information.

 

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oh well......someone else in on the race too.

better quickly buy some shares in this one too dachopper.....

not that i think news.com.au is a particularly reliable news source but...

https://www.news.com.au/world/coronavirus/australia/coronavirus-treatment-using-umbilical-cord-cells-tested-on-pneumonia-patients/news-story/1ea10c542c419800505c3ab4a65ce474

 

Australian researchers have discovered a way to treat patients with serious forms of coronavirus using blood cells derived from the umbilical cord.

In a world-first, patients at a Melbourne hospital will now be infused with the treatment to check its safety.

Up to 24 patients with moderate to severe pneumonia - which develops in serious cases of COVID-19 - will be recruited to take part in the trial which is expected to be finished before the end of the year.

The treatment would prevent the progression of pneumonia.

“It’s not going to cure coronavirus and it’s not like a vaccine that will prevent it, but it’s particularly designed for patients who progress from the very mild form (of the virus) to the very dangerous form that causes people to have to go to hospital,” study co-leader Professor Graham Jenkin, Monash University, told news.com.au.

my point?

there must be another 10....20.....1000......? research labs out there working on this

plus all the vaccine developers too

good luck to them all

 

you waxing lyrical about your particular interest suggests you may have drunk a little too much of the kool aid....

17 hours ago, dachopper said:

 

These results support using Remestemcel-L  to treat Covid or ARDS patients who are also under cytokine storm and experiencing  the greatest levels of inflammation.

 

I would expect,  since the treatment works particularly well in the lungs, that the benefit for Covid or ARDS use, would be much higher than the benefit for AGVHD where the inflammation can be in other areas like liver or skin. From my understanding it is more difficult for the cells to reach some of the AGVHD target areas ( like skin or gut for example) with the lungs being the first place the cells go when injected via IV, and logic would dictate that they would be more effective in that area as a result.

 

https://www.asx.com.au/asxpdf/20200525/pdf/44j2qyg8xbbqj2.pdf

 

i bothered to look up your link

just the CMO suggesting there is a rationale to infer the treatment will work with COVID

no tests, no trial

they have been trialling this for ten years for the other issues

 

do you have medical qualifications?

above you seem to infer that you can conclude the benefits of this treatment

 

again i think you have been drinking a little too much of the juice

 

best of luck with your share speculation

 

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great news.....

except for dachopper, who has his money on a different pathway

Human vaccine trials to begin in Australia today

Australia's first human trials of a potential COVID-19 vaccine started in Melbourne today, with about 130 people involved in the program.

Clinical research organisation the Nucleus Network will be in charge of the early stages of testing the vaccine NVX-CoV2373, before the trial expands to Brisbane within a week.

The participants are healthy people between 18 and 59 years old.

Victoria's Parliamentary Secretary for Medical Research, Frank McGuire, said the trial was a significant step forward in the race for a coronavirus vaccine.

"As the first human trial in the southern hemisphere, and one of only a handful of COVID-19 human trials worldwide, I am delighted Victoria is again at the forefront in leadership and excellence in medical research," he said in a statement.

The treatment is being developed by US biotech company Novavax and is aimed at enhancing the immune response and stimulating high levels of neutralising antibodies.

Preliminary results are expected in July.

 

 

the point...?

so many working on this.....think it is a little naive at this point to think anyone has the knowledge who will get to a result first...

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10 hours ago, jack_sparrow said:

By the way you need a good memory in this business .... you should eat more carrots.

 

Fair Dinkum....... How do you think the company passes ANY information onto the public .... It knows about it for a time, and then it communicates it to the public.

 

As I said - if no shares are traded it is not insider trading

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4 hours ago, furr_ball said:

great news.....

except for dachopper, who has his money on a different pathway

Human vaccine trials to begin in Australia today

Australia's first human trials of a potential COVID-19 vaccine started in Melbourne today, with about 130 people involved in the program.

Clinical research organisation the Nucleus Network will be in charge of the early stages of testing the vaccine NVX-CoV2373, before the trial expands to Brisbane within a week.

The participants are healthy people between 18 and 59 years old.

Victoria's Parliamentary Secretary for Medical Research, Frank McGuire, said the trial was a significant step forward in the race for a coronavirus vaccine.

"As the first human trial in the southern hemisphere, and one of only a handful of COVID-19 human trials worldwide, I am delighted Victoria is again at the forefront in leadership and excellence in medical research," he said in a statement.

The treatment is being developed by US biotech company Novavax and is aimed at enhancing the immune response and stimulating high levels of neutralising antibodies.

Preliminary results are expected in July.

 

 

the point...?

so many working on this.....think it is a little naive at this point to think anyone has the knowledge who will get to a result first...

It's pretty obvious who will get the results first - they all publish their trial completion dates.  Mesoblast are in their final trial - so when it completes they are expected to deliver the treatment not go into another phase of a larger trial.

From what I have read they will indeed be the first stem cell therapy to complete their final FDA trial. 

We will all see if I've drunk coolaid or not shortly... hopefully not because if Mesoblasts IP doesn't deliver a front line result, I am doubtful that other stem cell companies will be able to either.

 

 

Great news about vaccine's and I hope they find one that works. They typically take years approve though.

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21 minutes ago, dachopper said:

 Mesoblast are in their final trial - so when it completes they are expected to deliver the treatment not go into another phase of a larger trial.

From what I have read they will indeed be the first stem cell therapy to complete their final FDA trial. 

 

Great news about vaccine's and I hope they find one that works. They typically take years approve though.

you seem to be missing the point

 

the mesoblast trial is not for COVID....i did read your link and it infers there may be a covid benefit possible

the trial is for other medical issues...that's all well and good...

it does not translate across as it has not been trialled for that

 

you keep sprouting information but not joining certain dots so well

 

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22 minutes ago, Ease the sheet. said:

if

Biggest word in the English Language.

  • Like 1

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4 hours ago, dachopper said:

As I said - if no shares are traded it is not insider trading

I bet you a figure of your choosing you are wrong.

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4 hours ago, dachopper said:

Fair Dinkum....... How do you think the company passes ANY information onto the public .... It knows about it for a time, and then it communicates it to the public.

By announcement ...and between finding out and announcing is an insider trading window. So longer delay, bigger window, bigger trouble for Co management, starting with Co Sec. 

You haven't been doing this stuff very long have you.

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7 hours ago, furr_ball said:

you seem to be missing the point

 

the mesoblast trial is not for COVID....i did read your link and it infers there may be a covid benefit possible

the trial is for other medical issues...that's all well and good...

it does not translate across as it has not been trialled for that

 

you keep sprouting information but not joining certain dots so well

 

I got your point, but you haven't put all the pieces together yet.

The Mesoblast therapy has already been trialed in over 1000 people safely ( for graft verse host ) and has no recorded side effects . That information is translated directly across and used in their Covid trial. That is why they are in front of everyone else. 

They already have data saying it is safe with over 1000 patients having used it. 

They already have data on how many cells to administer to get a response from the AGVHD trial which other companies have not yet figured out.

That is why they went directly into a phase 3 trial for Covid now, and not a phase 1 or 2, and they are not using multiple different doses like some other companies. 

 

So... the positive results from the other trial have proven that there should be benefit in ARDS patients, and that it is the safest treatment out there right now without known or recorded side effects over the last 10 years. That is why they will be first to the flag - because they are clearly  in front.

 

6 hours ago, Ease the sheet. said:

Any covid treatment, stem cell or otherwise is going to pretty fucking irrelevant if an effective vaccine happens along

 

Vaccines are great, but typically flu vaccines for example  - only work for 80% of people, and only cover you for 6 months, they have side effects, and they only cover you for the version of the virus they were created for. Science has been trying to manufacture COVID vaccine now for years... and been failing, so I am not optimistic.

 

190,000  people in the US per year develop ARDS - nothing to do with Covid-19. Mesoblast treatment should be equally effective against viral ARDS no matter the viral cause. So extremely relevant Covid or not.  

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someone hire this guy, he got the cures!

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4 hours ago, jack_sparrow said:

I bet you a figure of your choosing you are wrong.

lol

 

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4 hours ago, jack_sparrow said:

I bet you a figure of your choosing you are wrong.

You posted it  - in your own post.  :rolleyes:

It is an offence under the Corporations Act to trade using inside information, or communicate inside information to others who will, or are likely to, trade on the inside information.

 

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you read a whole sentence and omitted the most important words

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1 hour ago, MR.CLEAN said:

you read a whole sentence and omitted the most important words

Probably  - but his comment was pointless in any case so my response was deservedly half arsed.

 

I said my opinion was the company will probably release more information in the meeting.

The company have already officially released to the public that they are conducting the meeting.

 

No idea what this has to do with insider trading, maybe Jack can explain with his vast expertise why he brought it up.

 

 

  

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Way back at the top of the thread... This is not really a insider trading issue. It's Pump 'N Dump. A network of dupe's (@dachopper?) will help with the Pump. There will be a spike that triggers the Dump. Classic. Perfect emotional environment for that trick. No need to involve members of the company. Has little to do with efficacy or trials, either.

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35 minutes ago, El Boracho said:

Way back at the top of the thread... This is not really a insider trading issue.

It was this the fool didn't understand. 

11 hours ago, dachopper said:

Fair Dinkum....... How do you think the company passes ANY information onto the public .... It knows about it for a time, and then it communicates it to the public.

As I said - if no shares are traded it is not insider trading

 

7 hours ago, jack_sparrow said:

By announcement ...and between finding out and announcing is an insider trading window. So longer delay, bigger window, bigger trouble for Co management, starting with Co Sec. 

You haven't been doing this stuff very long have you.

 

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I’m still waiting for prepublication results or the supposed efficacy and trial notes. Crickets. 

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1 hour ago, Miffy said:

I’m still waiting for prepublication results or the supposed efficacy and trial notes. Crickets. 

So am I

2 hours ago, El Boracho said:

Way back at the top of the thread... This is not really a insider trading issue. It's Pump 'N Dump. A network of dupe's (@dachopper?) will help with the Pump. There will be a spike that triggers the Dump. Classic. Perfect emotional environment for that trick. No need to involve members of the company. Has little to do with efficacy or trials, either.

This thread is about making people aware of what has so far proven to be an extremely promising treatment - that's all from my perspective. You want to turn it me doing a pump and dump conspiracy, Jack wants to turn it into me insider trading conspiracy, Clean wanted to join the me stock touting conspiracy..... fill your boots and conspire away. I never even mentioned that the company was listed - that was you guys, and you put the stock info on the forum :rolleyes:.

I won't lie.... After being bombarded from the first post with negativity and being personally accused.. I will enjoy saying 'I told you so' a little more when it happens  

 

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You’re so invested in this as if you’ve personally had a role in this company. 

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Either he's invested and pumping, or he's the kid who takes his ball home when the other kids won't play by the rules he made up.

Either way, this thread should die.

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treatment is imminent, Elizabeth Holmes is on the job. Her chief researcher explains all;

 

 

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1 hour ago, toad said:

treatment is imminent, Elizabeth Holmes is on the job. Her chief researcher explains all;

 

 

But do we have enough machines that go “ping”?

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1 hour ago, toad said:

treatment is imminent, Elizabeth Holmes is on the job. Her chief researcher explains all;

 

 

IMO, there is more to be said about the dingle arm.

 

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5 hours ago, dachopper said:

So am I

This thread is about making people aware of what has so far proven to be an extremely promising treatment - that's all from my perspective. You want to turn it me doing a pump and dump conspiracy, Jack wants to turn it into me insider trading conspiracy, Clean wanted to join the me stock touting conspiracy..... fill your boots and conspire away. I never even mentioned that the company was listed - that was you guys, and you put the stock info on the forum :rolleyes:.

I won't lie.... After being bombarded from the first post with negativity and being personally accused.. I will enjoy saying 'I told you so' a little more when it happens  

Amazing! That right there is exactly what a tout or pumper would write. Might be a bot!

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9 hours ago, dachopper said:

, Jack wants to turn it into me insider trading conspiracy, 

Nope. Insider traders are intelligent.

I just want to know your average buy price outside that tranche you got for $2.28 around midday on the 18th.

600m shares, heavy dilution, price with it for 15 years, shit cash flow, high cash burn, no debt access, more dillution coming ..all means sky high share price is all but gone....and big line up of lower priced newbies like you all ready to dump on a press release and thinking you can get ahead of the higher priced oldies, but who have also loaded up recently to lower their exit....and who know a thing or two about insider trading etc.

Just want idea when you can dump in front.

Mesoblast should be listed in entertainment sector not health.

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For those that are interested.... The Mesoblast released a presentation on their product versus COPD which is a different but similar condition.

Of interest - the first graph shows the correlation between C reactive protein levels, and the effectiveness of the treatment.

And of interest also - is that Covid 19 ARDS patients in the trial, all have high levels of C reactive protein as a pre-requisite of the trial.

"High sensitivity C-Reactive Protein (hs-CRP) serum level >4.0 mg/dL"

https://www.celltherapyjournal.org/article/S1465-3249(20)30570-3/fulltext

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4 hours ago, dachopper said:

For those that are interested.... The Mesoblast released a presentation on their product versus COPD which is a different but similar condition.

That maybe but a month old.

On the other hand in real time the releases that count.

28/5/20 3rd Qtr Fin & Opp Highlights

28/5/20 3rd Qtr Fin & Opp Presentation

28/5/20 US SEC Qtr Report Form 6K

Released local pre-opening yesterday couldnt drag it through and stay above the $4 ceiling it has built itself.

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On 5/10/2020 at 9:37 AM, dachopper said:

They are now about 1 week into the final trial that is necessary to prove that the treatment works, as a proper medical trial with patients getting treated with maximum care standard + either placebo or the cells. The trial has a primary endpoint of survival at 30 days, and also at 7 and 14 days along with other measurements. 33% of the way through the trial, if it is observed that the treatment is overwhelming effective ( which is expected by the compassionate use and other data ) - Then the FDA can approve immediate treatment before the trial has completed.

It is now May 30. 
 

Im guessing the magic didn’t pan out. 

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2 minutes ago, Miffy said:

Im guessing the magic didn’t pan out. 

Yup. The Pump & Dump wasn't executed with enough vigor. Better luck in the future.

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