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SEC16518

J/33 or J/105?

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Looking at these 2......I have 3 small kids (3, 5, 8) and may also do some racing.  Not sure which will better suit my needs.

 

Any thoughts?

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43 minutes ago, SEC16518 said:

Looking at these 2......I have 3 small kids (3, 5, 8) and may also do some racing.  Not sure which will better suit my needs.

 

Any thoughts?

depends on whether you're on mars, neptune, the moon etc.

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Depends on your friends and what you expect of racing.  The J33 is more versatile as a true handicap race boat in most typical weeknight racing conditions, where in mixed fleet sailing a well trimmed symmetrical boat can outdo the relatively underpowered J105 (class configuration).  Undoubtedly the J105 is going to be easier to sail shorthanded, or with kids, and definitely a broader availability of used class sails if that's your budget mode.

Have capable race-y friends who are willing to put in the time to race hard?  J33

Family fun without all the "that's hard" stuff?  J105

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25 minutes ago, Dogfish4255 said:

Depends on your friends and what you expect of racing.  The J33 is more versatile as a true handicap race boat in most typical weeknight racing conditions, where in mixed fleet sailing a well trimmed symmetrical boat can outdo the relatively underpowered J105 (class configuration).  Undoubtedly the J105 is going to be easier to sail shorthanded, or with kids, and definitely a broader availability of used class sails if that's your budget mode.

Have capable race-y friends who are willing to put in the time to race hard?  J33

Family fun without all the "that's hard" stuff?  J105

Couple of local guys have taken to doublehanding their 105s with their teen kids. If you expect the little ones to actually sail, that might be a teaser for them.

Not to say you can't doublehand a J33, you could, but likely would leave the kite in the bag.

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3 hours ago, SEC16518 said:

NJ/NY area...

Tiller is a must....that narrows the 105 search a little.

 

https://www.yachtworld.com/boats/2002/j-boats-j-105-3528054/

https://www.yachtworld.com/boats/2002/j-boats-j-105-3528054/

could be interesting sorting this one out.  Listing number shows this to be the same boat.  One listing has it in NY, the other in RI.

wide price discrepancy between the two listings apparently due to whether or not the 2017 Quantum sails go with the boat

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15 hours ago, SEC16518 said:

NJ/NY area...

Tiller is a must....that narrows the 105 search a little.

 

Tiller conversion on a 105 is easy.

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Do a j33 and put a farr 30 rig in it

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On 5/20/2020 at 6:33 PM, SEC16518 said:

Looking at these 2......I have 3 small kids (3, 5, 8) and may also do some racing.  Not sure which will better suit my needs.

 

Any thoughts?

Owned and raced 6 boats.  5 symmetric, 1 asym (a J/109). Taught my 3 who where 12, 11 and 9 to race on the asym boat.  Raced it with just family (5) many times.   While I like either setup, and I love the 33 (crewed on one for 2years), if you want to introduce the kiddies/family to racing on that size boat, the 105 is the better answer IMHO.

 

If you want to race with 8 or 9 of you buddies, than a 33 can be a giant killer...

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Can you stand up in the J/33?  Not being able to stand  in the 105 can be a dealbreaker for family use. 

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I can with my head rubbing the ceiling....It is probably 5'10" at it's highest point, headroom is not a big deal to me.  I do not plan on cruising at all, just going out for the day with kids.  Maybe crashing on it for 1 night.

 

 

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So I know how they perform on paper, but which boat feels faster and/or handles better?

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Depends on how you set up the 105.  If you set it up for PHRF with a 155% genny and a big chute, it's pretty even between the two.  If you go with the OD config, then the 33 is faster and handles better.  On the Chesapeake:

J/105 PHRF rates 81

J-33 rates 84

J/105 OD rates 90

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Another thing to consider is sail costs.
 

j/105 rules limit you to 2x new sails a year (and a bonus sail every 2 yrs) and to be competitive you will need to buy them. Generally a new class spin, and either a jib (everyone is going to 3Di) or main every other year. So say $4,600 (spin) + $5,600 (jib) or $5,000 (main) = $9,500-10,000 a year for sails, and an extra $5k every other yr. (Those are north list price, discounts may be available)

With the j/33, you can buy as little or as much as you want, and since its phrf rating is quite favorable you can get away with less frequent purchases. But to really perform (and you bought this to crush the PHRF fleet, right?) you’ll need twice as many sails as the j/105. So an light overlapping genoa, a smaller jib (110% ?), a 3Di or other laminate main ($8-9k?), big & small kites... But it probably comes with many of these sails already and you can build inventory slower. So probably less expensive in the long run.

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4 hours ago, Starboard!! said:

Another thing to consider is sail costs.
 

j/105 rules limit you to 2x new sails a year (and a bonus sail every 2 yrs) and to be competitive you will need to buy them. Generally a new class spin, and either a jib (everyone is going to 3Di) or main every other year. So say $4,600 (spin) + $5,600 (jib) or $5,000 (main) = $9,500-10,000 a year for sails, and an extra $5k every other yr. (Those are north list price, discounts may be available) 

With the j/33, you can buy as little or as much as you want, and since its phrf rating is quite favorable you can get away with less frequent purchases. But to really perform (and you bought this to crush the PHRF fleet, right?) you’ll need twice as many sails as the j/105. So an light overlapping genoa, a smaller jib (110% ?), a 3Di or other laminate main ($8-9k?), big & small kites... But it probably comes with many of these sails already and you can build inventory slower. So probably less expensive in the long run.

Only if he plans on racing OD. Or has other local 105's that love the idea of an arms race in PHRF racing.

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To reduce costs, j/105 class should consider a switch from Dacron main to 3DI Endurance and eliminate the "bonus" sail.  It'll cost 7-8k rather than 5k, but last twice as long.

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Having owned a 33 and sailed a bunch on the 105, I would advocate for the latter given your situation. The 105 has a nice set-up for sailing a small family and is handled easier than the 33. Given the relative ages of the boat as well you will probably find a 105 that is in better overall condition hull and rig wise, of course you will pay a bit extra. We cruised with our 33 and found it to be a non-starter - and our kids ages were around the same as yours when we had it. I would probably feel the same with a 105.

As far as racing goes, the 105 OD fleet is fantastic and still seems to be strong (if that is your brand of vodka). PHRF wise they rate 93 spin in Narragansett Bay, as opposed to a J33 at 84. Once the breeze gets above 12, a well sailed 105 can be quite a handful for the 33. That said, I agree with Dogfish...fully kitted J33 with a well practiced team is a PHRF beast. 

YMMV. Good luck!!

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I own a 105 and race against both J/33 and J/35. We race in the od configuration at 90 the J/33 is 84 and the J/35 is 72. To win in under 8 it is very hard. You need to sail a perfect race and the others to have problems. In 8-12 any of the boats could win. If it over 12 the 105 is pretty hard to beat on handicap and many times we beat them boat for boat.

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From a daysailing prospective the 105 is so much easier than the 33 roller furling 100% jib. Wife and kids will love that. If sails are brought at fall discount they are more like $4000 each on average. You can be competitive buying just 3 or 4 . The AP jib is good for just about any range, mainsail, and kite. Your second kite is just going to be one of your old ones,. If you have the money you will buy the light jib but sailing PHRF it is still hard to win under 8. Racing one design you would need it to keep up with the others. A 105 can be competitively sailed with 5 people not so easy with the 33. I was the first boat in Buffalo 2 years ago and now we are up to 5. 

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8 hours ago, SEC16518 said:

Thanks for the opinions.....Pulled the trigger on a 33 yesterday....

Wrong gun and trigger.

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Nah, let the haters hate . . . time on the water and specific efforts will make it worth your time.  Things like knowing when to run sheets and guys or just sheets on the kites, minimum competencies for your foredeck, trimmer(s), and pit, and what money to spend are going to make all the difference in your enjoyment of the boat.  If you don't already have one, add a carbon spinnaker pole.  Or two.  And enjoy, congrats on the boat!

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On 6/5/2020 at 6:49 AM, SEC16518 said:

Thanks for the opinions.....Pulled the trigger on a 33 yesterday....

Great boat, congrats. 

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12 minutes ago, Squalamax said:

Great boat, congrats. 

agreed, congrats.

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On 6/8/2020 at 8:31 PM, SEC16518 said:

Thanks, just brought it down from Mass to NJ this weekend, fun ride

Where was the boat in Mass? 

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