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Agree. Attach the important bits really well. Lash the rest up and go yachting. Adjusting stuff is not going to be at the front of your mind.

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I am basically ready to sail! just some fine tuning and we're off!

Figuring out the spinnaker rigging.Below

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spinnaker pole setup.DSCN3396.thumb.JPG.00bc825029839163530021c04ff5096f.JPG

wooden (ramps?) for spinnaker uphaul/downhaul, I don't feel like replacing them with plastic at the moment.

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Simple guy hook  arrangement. I will rig some twinning lines once my spinnaker skills are sorted out. I have never flown a spinnaker before, so...reckon there's some swimming ahead. I will try to flag down some of the old Fireball sailors at our club and see if they can help me out.

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Jib fairlead block, I couldn't resist the simplicity of it.

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Spinnaker pole storage on boom.

 

 

 

 

 

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Now, here is my big question. Lets say I and my crews skill level is roughly the same as my competition in a fleet of 20 boats. BUT, I am sailing this old narrow bow, wooden boat, (but with new sails and updated rigging), and the competition is sailing Winders, widebows etc,. How much am I going to really be held back? I would love to hear answers on this.

 

 

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Bravo!  Almost time to get on the water.  Did you check the integrity of the buoyancy tanks?  It won't matter until you capsize.  Then it will matter a whole lot.  

Sail on very mellow days first.  No need to be a hero much less a dead one.  

At some point equipment will make a difference.  How quickly you get there will depend on practice and your learning curve.  Until then continue to improve your boat and more importantly your sailing skills (software).  Once you can sail the boat try to get out for a sail with a more advanced baller.  Or even in a different but similar layout dinghy.  It will pay dividends.  

Have fun. Be safe.  Good luck.  Looking forward to The Report....

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2 hours ago, Admiral Hornblower said:

I am basically ready to sail! just some fine tuning and we're off!

Figuring out the spinnaker rigging.Below

DSCN3398.thumb.JPG.56871e9d436eee77202b268b208fe62d.JPG

DSCN3398.thumb.JPG.56871e9d436eee77202b268b208fe62d.JPG

DSCN3395.thumb.JPG.4758e3805c4a4e76164ad2877b85d35b.JPG

DSCN3406.thumb.JPG.7f65a6deb0ace11fd1e37b80a84dcbcb.JPG

spinnaker pole setup.DSCN3396.thumb.JPG.00bc825029839163530021c04ff5096f.JPG

wooden (ramps?) for spinnaker uphaul/downhaul, I don't feel like replacing them with plastic at the moment.

DSCN3407.thumb.JPG.51fad498dc77492eec6194b5645f6301.JPG

 

Simple guy hook  arrangement. I will rig some twinning lines once my spinnaker skills are sorted out. I have never flown a spinnaker before, so...reckon there's some swimming ahead. I will try to flag down some of the old Fireball sailors at our club and see if they can help me out.

DSCN3412.thumb.JPG.78f5808522d510d9746a6b0a886069cb.JPG

Jib fairlead block, I couldn't resist the simplicity of it.

DSCN3413.thumb.JPG.ed381bc7f7b1ec6bd8ab7fbed933a533.JPGDSCN3414.thumb.JPG.ef376db8f28c079d74d8e89a041c6ed5.JPG

Spinnaker pole storage on boom.

 

 

 

 

 

DSCN3403.JPG

DSCN3408.JPG

DSCN3410.JPG

 

Now, here is my big question. Lets say I and my crews skill level is roughly the same as my competition in a fleet of 20 boats. BUT, I am sailing this old narrow bow, wooden boat, (but with new sails and updated rigging), and the competition is sailing Winders, widebows etc,. How much am I going to really be held back? I would love to hear answers on this.

 

 

You are to be commended on the short amount of time this has taken you! Looking good!

The newer boats will be faster - and for about $15K more than you have spent  they should be! So you are going to need to be smarter. But they are awesome boats to sail no matter where you are in the fleet!

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1 hour ago, Bill5 said:

You are to be commended on the short amount of time this has taken you! Looking good!

The newer boats will be faster - and for about $15K more than you have spent  they should be! So you are going to need to be smarter. But they are awesome boats to sail no matter where you are in the fleet!

Also, think not so much about absolutes but rather relative. "Last year, I was 12 out of 20. This year I am 8 out of 20."

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Well done, excellent start to a life of tinkering with boats. Now just go out and sail it. And listen to all the advice you are offered, some will be wrong but most will be wise, like that which you received here from all the old Fireball sailors. Enjoy your cheap boat, sail it as well as you can, improve every outing, and enjoy beating some expensive boats when you get good enough. If you get a champion boat one day, you will be closer to winning a championship due to the time you spend sailing and developing this boat, its all time well spent. Good luck.

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I commend the simplicity of the jib fairlead block, but the need to swivel, and they’re taking a LOT of load, so I hope the structure can take it.

Re narrow vs wide, or old vs new. Flat water and sub planing conditions the difference will be marginal, and having more rocker, in certain conditions you may even be a bit faster. Once the breeze is up and / or there any significant waves the newer, stiffer boats will be gone. They just plane earlier and can transfer the breeze into motion with fewer losses from flex in the hull. Don’t let any of that put you off though. You can and will have a blast.

Great job, and fast too. Enjoy the first sail.

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4 hours ago, GBRNoah said:

I commend the simplicity of the jib fairlead block, but the need to swivel, and they’re taking a LOT of load, so I hope the structure can take it.

Good point. It appears those screws are going into a substantial piece of wood. Is that right Admiral?

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Are these pan head screws, or are there nuts and washers? If screws, they will pull out.

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1 hour ago, fastyacht said:

Are these pan head screws, or are there nuts and washers? If screws, they will pull out.

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Not necessarily. I have never pulled the main sheet ratchet out of a Laser, but it does have 4 screws. Through bolt is always a better option if possible.

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10 minutes ago, Bill5 said:

Not necessarily. I have never pulled the main sheet ratchet out of a Laser, but it does have 4 screws. Through bolt is always a better option if possible.

Unless there is a carlin there, he has only 4 or 5 mm of plywood---and plywood does not hold fastenings well. Edit. Actually looks like edge on into plywood that is thick (built up). That diagonal partner appears to be laminated from multiple layers of plywood vertically oriented.

But you are right--long enough screw, preferably bedded in epoxy, should not be a problem wth that much material--but looks like the curcular cutouts are limiting the screw length.

 

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Why use a screw when you can use a bolt? Why use a washer when you can use a penny washer?

That day when you want more rig tension or more kicker you don't want to be wondering if she can take it, you just want to pull it as hard as you can.

Some of the shit I found in the boat I bought recently you would not believe. In one spot I found an overlength self tapper, through a thin carbon sheet, with a fucking nut on the end. What was he thinking? Wasn't event a nylock...

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I'm suggest un-taping anything with tape wrapped around it to see what's inside. I have discovered rig pins taped with no ring. Machine screws taped with no nut, etc.

The worst one was a spin pole that had electric tape right where it touched the shroud so I left it alone thinking it was just for chafe. 2 years later the pole comes apart there, it was a fairly well done sleeve repair that was only held by the tape.

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7 hours ago, Bill5 said:

Good point. It appears those screws are going into a substantial piece of wood. Is that right Admiral?

Yup, it goes straight into that deck support with the circular openings, the screws are 1'' long, is that long enough?

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I would prefer not to have to bolt the jib fairleads in, because it's an awkward place to do that, but if it's really necessary...

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1 hour ago, Admiral Hornblower said:

I would prefer not to have to bolt the jib fairleads in, because it's an awkward place to do that, but if it's really necessary...

I don’t think the loads are that big on the jib sheet. Noah has concerns, though. 

I thought about it, and there are actually only 2 screws on a Laser main sheet ratchet. The load on that must be higher. Fastyacht’s comment on the epoxy is certainly right.

It sure looks to me that there were holes there for this purpose previously, and it doesn’t look like anything ripped out.

How tough will bolts be? 


 

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1 hour ago, Admiral Hornblower said:

Yup, it goes straight into that deck support with the circular openings, the screws are 1'' long, is that long enough?

I can see why you'd resist bolting something through what looks like a maybe 6 inch deep deck support. I wouldn't even try and go there. If you really wanted to bolt, it would be a case of gluing and horizontal bolting a piece of timber that tucked into the corner between the deck and its support and bolting through that.

My personal feeling and experience is that screws can do the job but 1 inch might be a smidgen short. 

I can see that the length of the screws are limited by the fact that, if they are too long they'll penetrate through to the cut out holes in the deck support. But if it was me, I'd regard it as a reasonable trade off in time and effort to make the screws as long as I could within the limitations imposed by those cutouts, or 2 inch, whichever was the shorter.

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We can go first orinciples. Fireball jib you can haul in even in big wind. Using leg musles. So orobably not much over 100 lb.

Harken genoa sheet cakc gives 78 at about 30 knots.

Do trigon on lead and resolved forces. Then compute screw holding power. Reference coming soon.

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And In Phase 2, you can work on this:

 

9E41FFC1-447C-4144-9BA8-63B15ED26C91.jpeg

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3 hours ago, fastyacht said:

We can go first orinciples. Fireball jib you can haul in even in big wind. Using leg musles. So orobably not much over 100 lb.

Harken genoa sheet cakc gives 78 at about 30 knots.

Do trigon on lead and resolved forces. Then compute screw holding power. Reference coming soon.

50056845791_a0f6900766_o.jpg

50056271398_93a5e9e392_o.jpg

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What, you mean like ENGINEERING and stuff? BORING!!

It's a good way to make stuff that works without an endless cycle of trial and error, though... but who wants to miss all the excitement of having chunks of the boat break off while screaming across the water on a planing reach?

FB- Doug

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2 minutes ago, Steam Flyer said:

What, you mean like ENGINEERING and stuff? BORING!!

It's a good way to make stuff that works without an endless cycle of trial and error, though... but who wants to miss all the excitement of having chunks of the boat break off while screaming across the water on a planing reach?

FB- Doug

My first 505 and my first Peugeot had something in common: They both left a trail of apparently nonessential parts in their wake.

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5 minutes ago, Steam Flyer said:

What, you mean like ENGINEERING and stuff? BORING!!

It's a good way to make stuff that works without an endless cycle of trial and error, though... but who wants to miss all the excitement of having chunks of the boat break off while screaming across the water on a planing reach?

FB- Doug

:lol:

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20 hours ago, fastyacht said:

50056845791_a0f6900766_o.jpg

 

The D value for Screw number 10 should be .186. That should work.

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A question about tuning, what is ''prebend''?

Looks like there is some mast bend without rig tension of any kind, Is that what the tuning guides mean?

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This is the tuning guide I was looking at.  https://cfd.northsails.com/sailing/wp-content/uploads/2017/06/08133945/1-NS-Tuning_Guide_Fireball_5.1.17.pdf

The normal rig tension is apparently 400 lbs, what would be a wood boat's equivalent rig tension?

And is there any way to find when I have that amount, without a tension meter?(or whatever they're called).

 

 

 

Last question, where should the mast foot be positioned correctly its pushing up against the bulkhead, which I imagine would not be good...

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There's usually an ideal position on the mast butt.  Often it's measured from the transom to the back of the mast.  Look for that in a tuning guide.  Those pins in the mast step are to hold the mast in place, so clearly the mast is too far forward.

Regarding tension, it's measured with a Loos gauge.  400lbs is 400lbs, no matter which boat, it's more a question if a wood boat can handle 400lbs.  The tension is set based on what the sails and mast are designed for.

Pre-bend is the bend of a mast fore and aft induced with shrouds and the ram, prior to putting up your sails and going sailing.  Old Proctor masts like these are often a bit floppy and will have some bend to them.  The shroud tension puts most of the rest of the pre-bend in but I wouldn't get too focused on this unless you have a new set of Norths and are trying to match their numbers.  Start by checking that the mast is straight in the boat side to side and then put some tension on.

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The tuning guide should have a measurement for the back face of mast (Usually the track) to the transom. Sometimes its to the forestay but that's hard to measure so usually transom. That number is not usually hard and fast but where you set the mast will determine your overall power and ability to point. Mast too far forward usually powers the boat up and contributes to Lee helm, too far back and depowers and makes weather helm. Prebend rake and rig tension all also contribute to all of this. Its really a 10 variable moving puzzle so get it close and try it out. 505's have most of this adjustable on the water but we also have key measurements to try and hit for different wind weights etc. I don't think FB has adjustable rake or rig tension on the water, but does have a ram. 

For tension you will need a loos gauge to really tell. 400 is not too much but maybe want to build up to it. Sail the boat with the rig taunt and see how it performs. Does the mast sag to leeward, does the leeward stay sag, does the ram straighten the mast or push it off to leeward. all of these factors will help you set the right tension. Your tuning guide has a rake (tip to transom) for different speeds. Mark your shroud pins for different rakes and make sure you can tension the rig in all positions.  

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Optimum fireball mast heel position is as far forward as possible, we used to build the boats with the bulkhead as far forward as it could go according to the rules to achieve this. 

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But, he needs and actual pin in the front of the mast step, he does NOT want the forward bulkhead taking the  pressure from the mast butt to keep the mast in place.  Stainless bolts are okay, but use carriage type bolts, not with threads where the mast is in contact, they will be prone to bending.  To be clear, pins fore and aft of the mast butt to lock the mast into place in the mast step.

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22 minutes ago, koolkat505 said:

But, he needs and actual pin in the front of the mast step, he does NOT want the forward bulkhead taking the  pressure from the mast butt to keep the mast in place.  Stainless bolts are okay, but use carriage type bolts, not with threads where the mast is in contact, they will be prone to bending.  To be clear, pins fore and aft of the mast butt to lock the mast into place in the mast step.

Obvious he does, he has left a gap for a pin to go in,the pins should never bend if the mast heel is a tight fit in the step, they would need to sheer for the heel to move.

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6 hours ago, Admiral Hornblower said:

A question about tuning, what is ''prebend''?

Looks like there is some mast bend without rig tension of any kind, Is that what the tuning guides mean?

 

 

 

 

My definition of prebend is bend that's induced by the rig tension before any sail and vang pressure is applied.

I'm happy to submit to more experienced Fireball views, but a mast that's bent before any rig tension is applied might just be bent. But that's hard to read when the boat's on its side because gravity can induce some bend of itself.

Again, subject to more specific opinions, prebend is normally induced by having the forestay attachment below the hounds attachment, or by having aft swept spreaders to an extent it deflects the line of the  shroud backwards. I would think the latter is unlikely because it would defeat the main purpose of spreaders which is to control fore and aft bend by deflecting the line of the shroud forward (and side bend by deflecting it outward). 

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2 hours ago, Gouvernail said:

Western? That’s gotta be Western Sailcraft out of Winnipeg. #4606 would have it built in 1970. #3908 was a Western boat at our club. I remember those black masts - I don’t believe they were tapered. Good god -  childhood memories... 

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I'm gonna wade in again here. The mast should be straight before any rig tension is applied (SOTBO :rolleyes: ). Look up the mast track with the boat upright and level so gravity isn't pushing the mast sideways. The spreaders induce pre-bend because they're pushing the shrouds out of line, so the mast goes the only way it can - fwd below the hounds. With rig tension applied (Loos gauge is expensive, the bendy aluminium equivalent is cheaper and will do for now. Ebay is your friend here if you can't borrow one), the mast track should remain straight port - starboard and bend fore - aft such that there is (usually) 35mm or so gap measured between the back of the mast and the main halyard pulled taut and held at the gooseneck. 

If the mast is straight (port - starboard) with no rig tension but not when the tension is on, either the shrouds are different lengths (could be pins out of position), or the spreaders are unequal for length or deflection angle). Spreader length from the side of the mast to the wire should be approx 400mm +/- 25mm depending on crew weight. (Lighter crew = shorter spreaders.)

With the boat upright and rig tension on, and trap lines out of the way, sight across the boat at the chain plates, lining up the shroud wires. Now, without moving your head, check the shrouds are in-line at the spreaders. If they're not the spreader deflection angles are not equal. Adjust till they are.

North Sails Tuning Guide: https://cfd.northsails.com/sailing/wp-content/uploads/2017/06/08133945/1-NS-Tuning_Guide_Fireball_5.1.17.pdf

Mast foot as far fwd as possible, with bolts fore and aft of the mast heel tenon. If the screw / rivet that is against the bulkhead does nothing other than hold the mast foot in the tube then it's redundant really. 

All mast tuning measurements and adjustment should be done before the strut is attached. The strut is to allow mast adjustment on the water and to stop the mast inverting when the spinnaker is up. It should play no part in 'static' set-up.

The magic number to start from - once the mast is straight in the boat - is 22'6" measured from the top of the mast to the centre of the transom. 2-3" less if it's windy. I pull a tape measure up the mast to 18'9" on the tape at the gooseneck black band, then cleat off the halyard and measure at the transom.

As I think I have said before, DO NOT try to impose 400lb on an old lady like you have there. She won't like it much. I would suggest that 250-300 is plenty as a start point. 

I apologise if I'm telling you stuff you know already, but I hope this is helpful.

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^this^

When setting up a mast, STRAIGHT and then CENTERED (and re-check STRAIGHT) and then RAKE (re-check CENTER and STRAIGHT) are all-important. I'm amazed at the number of sailors who skip this step.

FB- Doug

{edit to add} I could tell a number of sea stories illustrating this point, but especially with older boats that have been monkeyed with by who-knows-whom, it's often difficult/impossible to get these basics correct... but when the mast & rig is wrong on a fundamental level, nothing else can be truly right

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@Admiral Hornblower - buy a Loos Gauge. They aren’t that expensive in the grand scheme and they last forever. Plus you will make friends with people that don’t have one.

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On 6/28/2020 at 5:23 PM, Dex Sawash said:

I'm suggest un-taping anything with tape wrapped around it to see what's inside. I have discovered rig pins taped with no ring. Machine screws taped with no nut, etc.

The worst one was a spin pole that had electric tape right where it touched the shroud so I left it alone thinking it was just for chafe. 2 years later the pole comes apart there, it was a fairly well done sleeve repair that was only held by the tape.

Yeah, I hate it when they use the wrong kind of tape.

If they hadn't used that darn cheap stuff, you'd still be fine!!

FB- Doug

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Thanks everyone for your answers!

Me and my dad are taking the boat to the club to sail it today or tomorrow, so wish me luck!:)

I'll send a report.

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Good luck!

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I  sailed it! Sadly I don't have any stories of the boat tearing apart on a planing reach:), but, it was quite a successful sail nevertheless.

The bailers leaked a little but NOT my repair! and one of the screws for my spin uphaul cleat came loose, because it was drilled into the centerboard case and the plywood was too thin to hold it.

Surprisingly the boat had no water in the buoyancy tanks from an hour or so of sailing.

the spinnaker worked very well though,  THANK...hm... thank SOMETHING that there wasn't footage off use handling it! The mere thought sends chills up my spine:blink:

My first impressions are, what a fabulous boat! the only experience I had with sloop rigged monos was with our Sidewinder, and the contrast is unbelievable. The Fireball has more space, the boom is SO much higher, actual sail controles, better rudder, real sails, the list goes on, really it's just a joy to sail. I really didn't realize what a piece of garbage that Sidewinder was<_<.That Thing couldn't even point with the Hobie 16s!

sorry, no pics, I will try to get some tomorrow.

 

THANKS again everyone for helping make this possible. Your help was invaluable.

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52 minutes ago, Admiral Hornblower said:

 a quick question, how high should the spinnaker pole be downwind?

 

That's the simple question that takes a lifetime to answer that probably caused the development of the fixed sprit.

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When running keep mostly level using the guy when reaching, wire running it will bounce up quite a bit. 505s moved the guys forward to help with downhaul and removed the bungie to hold the pole down.

It sort of depowers the chute by moving the force vector up instead of sideways or forward. Helps with gust control . 

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1 hour ago, Locus said:

When running keep mostly level using the guy when reaching, wire running it will bounce up quite a bit. 505s moved the guys forward to help with downhaul and removed the bungie to hold the pole down.

It sort of depowers the chute by moving the force vector up instead of sideways or forward. Helps with gust control . 

Keeping the two spinnaker clews (or more technically correct, the tack and clew) at the same height is a good rule of thumb.

It won't be right but at least it won't be far wrong, and as the air gets light you will lower the pole to keep to keep the sail from just drooping uselessly.

Last couple of decades racing conventional chutes, I've gotten into the habit of keeping the pole lift in hand and raising it as far as the sail will fly. This ahs seemed really fast. In small boats I rigged the pole lift on a strong shock cord so it would rise to whatever you eased the downhaul to. This keeps it from skying and allows it to move freely for gybes etc etc.

In a Lightning, we flew the chute way up in the air and pulled the CB all the way up, this let us skate right past almost everybody but the fastest off wind sailors. Usually they would say "Hey, is your downhaul broken?" or "You've got that set WAY too high" as we went past them. I just cheerfully agreed.

But yeah, learning to trim a spinnaker is kind of a lifetime task. They will choose a moment to humble you, no matter how good you think you are getting.

FB- Doug

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If the luff breaks high lower the pole, if it breaks low raise it. That won't be perfect, but a good start.  It's hard to see both clews in a small boat unless you're running. You'll soon learn how it should look.

Beginner tip, when the kite won't fill ease the sheet a lot and pull the pole back. That's the problem 9 out of 10 times...

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Raising the pole closes the leach, dropping it pulls the fullness forwards and opens the leach, dropping also projects the luff to weather, raising does the opposite so make sure your pole can’t sky on a tight reach as that is a 100% guaranteed capsize. Your topping lift exit looks very low on the mast and the downhaul should be as close to deck level as possible, don’t worry about the strut getting in the way.

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Here is a the pole on a 470 tank running in high wind. These women are professionals. 

 

Link to video. Watch the technique. The pole height seems not a as important as keeping the boat level and pushing forward.

In light stuff for sure, but the crew can sit forward and hold the guy down to keep the pole where they want. 

722745430_Spinpole.thumb.jpg.d7d43de2e93c19b640bf9ea87311c8d0.jpg

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What and where are they???

 

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DSCN3276.JPG.2dbdebccbb7b33cf78c730f20e617e67.thumb.JPG.13dc31de468651d91e14fb8355a1992f.JPG

Here is a better pic. They or rubbing strips of some mysterious material that run along those to chines, from the transom to where they end in the top left of the picture above. They are completely falling apart and are in urgent need of replacement.

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1 hour ago, Admiral Hornblower said:

 

Here is a better pic. They or rubbing strips of some mysterious material that run along those to chines, from the transom to where they end in the top left of the picture above. They are completely falling apart and are in urgent need of replacement.

Glad you got on the water!

They look like Aluminum strips? Thistles have similar running down he centerline but they are not as high profile as on your Fireball. The purpose on a Thistle is to protect the centerline of the hull from damage. 

How are they connected on your boat as I do not see any screws? I'm sure a Fireball expert will be able to offer good advice soon.

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3 hours ago, Admiral Hornblower said:

DSCN3276.JPG.2dbdebccbb7b33cf78c730f20e617e67.thumb.JPG.13dc31de468651d91e14fb8355a1992f.JPG

Here is a better pic. They or rubbing strips of some mysterious material that run along those to chines, from the transom to where they end in the top left of the picture above. They are completely falling apart and are in urgent need of replacement.

It is a class rule to have them, but they can be a pain. They are usually plastic or integrated into the new glass boats. The idea is they protect the rails upon which they are fastened. If you don’t see that as an issue, I would just take them off and fill in any holes. But if you go to a Nationals, you will need to stick some on.

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where could I find them or something equivalent? Is there a name for them I could search?

P.S  They are not made out of metal, looks like rubber with a metallic coating

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1 minute ago, Admiral Hornblower said:

where could I find them or something equivalent? Is there a name for them I could search?

Calling @GBRNoah

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19 minutes ago, Bill5 said:

Calling @GBRNoah

Oh, thanks. Put me in the spotlight! I know little about the construction of wooden hulls. But I think there will be an odd section (roughly triangular) timber rubbing strake that covers the join between the bottom and bilge panels. That’s the bit the rules are talking about. On the peak of the triangle will be the sacrificial / tougher part. Guessing, it might have been brass back in the day, stainless or maybe aluminium more recently, and D section - less than half-round. Look up “keelband” on Pinbax.com.

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You might be able to find some body side molding of the right dimension. Stick or screw it on.

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Off the top of my head I think the section was 11.7mm wide by 3mm high, we used it on Mirror keelbands as well. It was originally Aluminium and fitted using ss screws countersunk into the aluminium.

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Admiral, while not for a Fireball, here's a link to Great Midwest Yacht Company (near Columbus, OH - close to you?) that shows the Aluminum half-rounds used on Thistles. Call GMW (Doug Laber) and see if he can help find the size you need. Doug's a great guy - feel free to mention my name (I promise he won't hang up on you!).

Look under the "Miscellaneous > Hull Attachment" Tab

http://www.nowwebsites.net/miscellaneous_c527.html

 

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thought I would send some pics of us launching from the sailing club. This is the third weekend we have sailed it.DSCN3689.thumb.JPG.820a5f2fb8f997480b20f6aa7605bfc9.JPGDSCN3690.thumb.JPG.205eda8f02f8d95fa073c23e03ac5645.JPGDSCN3691.thumb.JPG.1501a9e4a6c032bda2c07c32324aad8d.JPGDSCN3692.thumb.JPG.273ea67de0d2d361798005ab1f5290c5.JPGDSCN3693.thumb.JPG.97bcbdf1b4d9caf20a1d880e0929c07b.JPGDSCN3694.thumb.JPG.36bcd2eeb5564ab026dfe69b5f033a14.JPG

Yesterday we took it out in conditions 9 kts gusting 20 to 25!

Sort of survival sailing at our level but unspeakable fun!! Flying of waves and planing upwind. I will never forget that feeling of that thing screaming upwind. But downwind, What a freaking beast! It felt like being in a speedboat, dad was trapezing on a broad reach(without the spin up). Really there are no words to to describe the feeling and power of that broad reach. 

To be honest we felt a little shaken after the end of it all!

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It only gets better!

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15 hours ago, Admiral Hornblower said:

thought I would send some pics of us launching from the sailing club. This is the third weekend we have sailed it.DSCN3689.thumb.JPG.820a5f2fb8f997480b20f6aa7605bfc9.JPGDSCN3690.thumb.JPG.205eda8f02f8d95fa073c23e03ac5645.JPGDSCN3691.thumb.JPG.1501a9e4a6c032bda2c07c32324aad8d.JPGDSCN3692.thumb.JPG.273ea67de0d2d361798005ab1f5290c5.JPGDSCN3693.thumb.JPG.97bcbdf1b4d9caf20a1d880e0929c07b.JPG

Yesterday we took it out in conditions 9 kts gusting 20 to 25!

Sort of survival sailing at our level but unspeakable fun!! Flying of waves and planing upwind. I will never forget that feeling of that thing screaming upwind. But downwind, What a freaking beast! It felt like being in a speedboat, dad was trapezing on a broad reach(without the spin up). Really there are no words to to describe the feeling and power of that broad reach. 

To be honest we felt a little shaken after the end of it all!

How did all your repair work hold up?

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24 minutes ago, Bill5 said:

How did all your repair work hold up?

Surprisingly, nothing broke! no cleats ripped out, I think the sail did get a small tear though.

Though the noise of the sails flogging in the tacks was a bit daunting, it sounded like boat was falling to pieces.:blink: It really is amazing how loud a flogging sail can be!

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Fireball North America

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7 minutes ago, Bill5 said:

Fireball North America

Looked at it, apparently there won't be any Fireball regattas this year.

BTW, is There a difference between the North Americans and the Nationals?

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North Americans typically attract US and Canadian sailors. Each country will also generally host their own Nationals. However, sometimes the NAs will also be the host country’s Nationals. It all depends on numbers. 
Most classes have cancelled their larger events this year.

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Quick add on. Sometimes the country’s Nationals are held immediately prior to the NAs at the same venue.

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Some pics from last weekend's racing. An absolutely perfect day for sailing, 12 knots of breeze, 90 F and sunny.

Inline imageInline image

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Any comments on sail trim, boat trim ect, would be appreciated

 What a fabulous boat to sail!

We also had our first trapezing beam reach, very exiting, and fun!

Also, our combined weight is 250 lbs, at what wind speed should we need to start depowering? Because I felt like we were slightly overpowered upwind, and I had to luff the mainsail to stay upright in the gusts. Is that because we didn't depower the sail and rig?

BTW in the last two photos thats us leading the monohull fleet,:D a unique experience for us!

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On 7/4/2020 at 9:31 PM, Admiral Hornblower said:

 a quick question, how high should the spinnaker pole be downwind?

Rules of Thumb - If the top of the spinnaker luffs first, lift the pole a little. If the bottom of the spinnaker luffs first, lower the pole a little. Lower the pole hard on overpowered reaches.

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Hey Congratulations on the boat - Fireballs are absolutely awesome - and the fleet is fun all the way to the worlds! 

Looking at the photos your mast needs setting up - it's way too straight for the conditions and creating a very full front to the main - which is why you're feeling a bit overpowered. It could be spreader angles or the mast preventer (the strut that leads from the lower mast forward to the deck). Play with these until you get a natural curve in the mast that matches the luff curve in the main - that'll also clean up the slot between the jib and leeward mainsail overlap - and help with pointing!

Anyway - there's lotsa information out there on this class and no shortage of peeps to offer advice. My advice is get it "rough enuff' using the tuning guides...then go play with it and things will sort themselves out.

As a looong time veteran of the class I can only say you're in for some good times....and the guys who sail them don't take themselves too seriously either! An example...after a series of 5 consecutive wins at a worlds regatta, our local sailmaker took out an advert with the headline...."5 bullets in the balls is no laughing matter!!" Enjoy!!

 

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5 hours ago, Ncik said:

Rules of Thumb - If the top of the spinnaker luffs first, lift the pole a little. If the bottom of the spinnaker luffs first, lower the pole a little. Lower the pole hard on overpowered reaches.

Yes, this works better IMHO than trying to adjust it so the clews are level.

Also, if the boat is steering easily, ease the vang. If it feels like a Giant Hand is yanking you around by the mast, tighten it a little.

Great pics, it looks like you've already gotten some good advice on tuning... but remember that flatter is better

FB- Doug

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34 minutes ago, Steam Flyer said:

 but remember that flatter is better

Trapeze ring looks a bit high. And the skipper has to get his lazy ass over the side...

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As I told my kids when they got out of optimists. We used those expensive blocks in the main sheet so you can let it out and pull it in again, so don't just fucking hang onto it.

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4 hours ago, Steam Flyer said:

Yes, this works better IMHO than trying to adjust it so the clews are level.

Also, if the boat is steering easily, ease the vang. If it feels like a Giant Hand is yanking you around by the mast, tighten it a little.

Great pics, it looks like you've already gotten some good advice on tuning... but remember that flatter is better

FB- Doug

Surely Vang is the opposite of the above, when reaching  with the kite up I ease Vang when overpowered and start pulling it back on when I need more power?

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2 hours ago, Major Tom said:
6 hours ago, Steam Flyer said:

... Also, if the boat is steering easily, ease the vang. If it feels like a Giant Hand is yanking you around by the mast, tighten it a little.

Great pics, it looks like you've already gotten some good advice on tuning... but remember that flatter is better

 

Surely Vang is the opposite of the above, when reaching  with the kite up I ease Vang when overpowered and start pulling it back on when I need more power?

Reaching, especially close reaching (by apparent wind), absolutely you're right.

If you're running deep DW or DDW, then it's a trade-off of power vs stability in most classes. Slightly by the lee, slightly heeled to windward, vang eased, plane like crazy until the Giant Hand starts to give you trouble....

FB- Doug

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3 hours ago, Steam Flyer said:

Reaching, especially close reaching (by apparent wind), absolutely you're right.

If you're running deep DW or DDW, then it's a trade-off of power vs stability in most classes. Slightly by the lee, slightly heeled to windward, vang eased, plane like crazy until the Giant Hand starts to give you trouble....

FB- Doug

DDW in a planing boat in breeze??

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5 hours ago, Steam Flyer said:

Reaching, especially close reaching (by apparent wind), absolutely you're right.

If you're running deep DW or DDW, then it's a trade-off of power vs stability in most classes. Slightly by the lee, slightly heeled to windward, vang eased, plane like crazy until the Giant Hand starts to give you trouble....

FB- Doug

Maybe @Couta or @GBRNoah can chime in (assuming they are current in all things Fireball). Do Fireballs do the by-the-lee with twist thing? My experience goes back a number of years, but it seems to me that you wouldn't be able to let the main out far enough due to the side stay getting in the way to take full advantage. It sounds cool, though! 

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12 hours ago, Bill5 said:

Trapeze ring looks a bit high. And the skipper has to get his lazy ass over the side...

Oops, the skippers me:huh:...:lol:

But, I agree with you, I definitely need to be hiking out.

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49 minutes ago, Bill5 said:

Maybe @Couta or @GBRNoah can chime in (assuming they are current in all things Fireball). Do Fireballs do the by-the-lee with twist thing? My experience goes back a number of years, but it seems to me that you wouldn't be able to let the main out far enough due to the side stay getting in the way to take full advantage. It sounds cool, though! 

Not being able to get the boom out far enough is a common problem for planing dinghies. easing the vang lets you get it out a little further (not much, it's true).

I've seen this done on a variety of boats, 470s and FDs among others. I'm not an expert in Fireballs, it would be interesting to hear specifics on this boat

FB- Doug

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56 minutes ago, Steam Flyer said:

Not being able to get the boom out far enough is a common problem for planing dinghies. easing the vang lets you get it out a little further (not much, it's true).

I've seen this done on a variety of boats, 470s and FDs among others. I'm not an expert in Fireballs, it would be interesting to hear specifics on this boat

FB- Doug

What you are talking about is letting the leech twist off? Gets sketchy in wind and waves. I'd rather stay a little higher, wire running.

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