Vaeredil

Dinghys on very small keelboats

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16 hours ago, Vaeredil said:

Hell yeah, there is hope for me :)

Definitely be costal/close shore for the first yearish at least to gain more experience, no matter what I buy. What specifically do I need to look out for especially on a tri? Is it just the basic stuff like easing in gusts/squalls cause there's no heeling to reduce pressure & the good ol having to ease the main to turn downwind or is it more than that?

My multi experience is limited to it first sailboat, a Hobie 16, and I was several times more hopelessly clueless back then. 

Actually sailing a Hobie 16 in breezy and gusty conditions is a good start as you will soon discover safely by yourself how apparent wind works and that there are many ways to capsize a multi. You can discard the "backward capsize" as this is a Hobie 16 peculiarity, but don't discard the "bury the leeward bow" option or the "dead downwind forward capsize with the main against the shrouds" as this is how cruising multi tend to go over.

On a monohull you can make all kind of mistakes and most of the time you will just suffer bruises to your ego. Multis are great boats but to operate them safely you need to understand very well apparent wind which most beginners struggle with.

As explained by @carcrash above I think that you need a relatively light (not stupidily racing light everything undersized) monohull with simple systems. That is very forgiving and easy to maintain. I don't know much about US boats but if you were in France I would recommend one of these classic :

1280px-Armagnac_ni_gris_ni_vert.JPG

8.5m long, it weighs 2200 kg, 1200 kg of ballast and there is room to store a deflated dinghy inside! You will cruise around at 5 knots and if need be one day, will be able to sail upwind in 40 knots of wind.

 

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12 hours ago, carcrash said:

It is specifically LOAD that drives cost.  VMG downwind, I totally agree with you. Reaching and upwind, the loads on a multihull are (relative to displacement) VERY high because of high stability. Also, the specific sensitivity to weight on narrow hulls means multihulls need very careful eye on weight, which can add cost. Of course, it can force you to save money, as there is no tolerance for loading the boat up with optional stuff.

So let's go through all the combinations prioritizing speed, space, and low maintenance, where (1) implies most important, and (3) implies least important, to the owner of the yacht:

(1) speed and (2) space and (3) low maintenance, then it is a multihull. I agree completely. But an expensive multihull.

(1) speed and (2) low maintenance and (3) space, then it is a ULDB, and cheap. Much slower than the expensive multihull, but faster than all below.

(1) space and (2) low maintenance and (3) speed, then its is a multihull, even a cheap multihull. 30' x 30' is much more room than 30' by 12', so multi wins for space.

(1) space and (2) speed and (3) low maintenance, then it is a multihull, but an expensive and not very fast multihull

(1) low maintenance (2) speed (3) space, then its a ULDB. Low loads make it cheap and avoids things exploding under load.

(2) low maintenance (2) space (3) speed, then its any old plastic fantastic, like a Catalina 30.

I think the OP is only interested in one of the bottom two choices: minimizing operating costs.

Damn, that's a really helpful breakdown. You definitely could flesh that out into a while article. Priority wise, I think @Panoramix is spot on with the ULDB recommendation. Space is definitely at three for priority, with a tossup between low maintenance and speed for the other two. What's the name/model of that French boat? Looks like a fantastic option but definitely have never seen one in Canada for sale. 

 

What you mentioned about sailing well and still being able to claw off a lee shore at 40 knots sounds very appealing indeed.

1 hour ago, Panoramix said:

 

As explained by @carcrash above I think that you need a relatively light (not stupidily racing light everything undersized) monohull with simple systems. That is very forgiving and easy to maintain. I don't know much about US boats but if you were in France I would recommend one of these classic :8.5m long, it weighs 2200 kg, 1200 kg of ballast and there is room to store a deflated dinghy inside! You will cruise around at 5 knots and if need be one day, will be able to sail upwind in 40 knots of wind.

 

 

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3 hours ago, Panoramix said:

Actually sailing a Hobie 16 in breezy and gusty conditions is a good start as you will soon discover safely by yourself how apparent wind works and that there are many ways to capsize a multi. You can discard the "backward capsize" as this is a Hobie 16 peculiarity, but don't discard the "bury the leeward bow" option or the "dead downwind forward capsize with the main against the shrouds" as this is how cruising multi tend to go over.

On a monohull you can make all kind of mistakes and most of the time you will just suffer bruises to your ego. Multis are great boats but to operate them safely you need to understand very well apparent wind which most beginners struggle with.

As explained by @carcrash above I think that you need a relatively light (not stupidily racing light everything undersized) monohull with simple systems. That is very forgiving and easy to maintain. I don't know much about US boats but if you were in France I would recommend one of these classic :

1280px-Armagnac_ni_gris_ni_vert.JPG

8.5m long, it weighs 2200 kg, 1200 kg of ballast and there is room to store a deflated dinghy inside! You will cruise around at 5 knots and if need be one day, will be able to sail upwind in 40 knots of wind.

 

What is it you French have with naming so many boats after booze, Armagnac, Muscadet...

MjAxODA3YzE1Y2ZlZjYxNDA2MTk2NzI5NjMxYjM2

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10 hours ago, Vaeredil said:

Damn, that's a really helpful breakdown. You definitely could flesh that out into a while article. Priority wise, I think @Panoramix is spot on with the ULDB recommendation. Space is definitely at three for priority, with a tossup between low maintenance and speed for the other two. What's the name/model of that French boat? Looks like a fantastic option but definitely have never seen one in Canada for sale. 

 

What you mentioned about sailing well and still being able to claw off a lee shore at 40 knots sounds very appealing indeed.

 

The boat is an Armagnac designed by Philippe Harlé. I wouldn't call it an ULDB but it is relatively light.

8 hours ago, KC375 said:

What is it you French have with naming so many boats after booze, Armagnac, Muscadet...

MjAxODA3YzE1Y2ZlZjYxNDA2MTk2NzI5NjMxYjM2

Harlé used to name his designs after an alcohol hence the numerous boats named after alcohols Chances are that it will be a good boat when you come across one.

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31 minutes ago, Panoramix said:

The boat is an Armagnac designed by Philippe Harlé. I wouldn't call it an ULDB but it is relatively light.

Harlé used to name his designs after an alcohol hence the numerous boats named after alcohols Chances are that it will be a good boat when you come across one.

Does the Armagnac have the same class rule as the Muscadet, namely you have to have a namesake bottle aboard to race...

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12 hours ago, KC375 said:

Does the Armagnac have the same class rule as the Muscadet, namely you have to have a namesake bottle aboard to race...

Not that I know, the Armagnac class association isn't as active as the Muscadets' so I imagine that they don't have time to invent Pythonesque rules! They mainly do handicap races like the tour du Finistère or the Tresco Trophé, some Armagnac owners are hard core cruisers. It isn't uncommon for them to sail to Ireland, the Scillies or Cornwall from North Brittany. Living on an Armagnac is glorified camping but much much more comfortable than on a Muscadet or a Cognac (the size in between). A few years ago my Dad had a low, considered selling his boat and let it on the hard for a summer so I rented an Armagnac for a week. My wife who isn't a sailor really liked it as it wasn't as intimidating as the bigger boat, she helmed quite a bit whereas she doesn't do it on my Dad's boat. We had to perform a few tacks to come in Concarneau against 10-15 knots of wind true, my 14 years old daughter was mostly tacking the genoa (I was just helping for the last foot of sheet) and the mainsail traveller while I was keeping an eye on the map (not my patch of water) and the wind and my wife was helming. I can tell you that that would never had happened on a bigger boat. Coming into a packed harbour is super easy as the boat has an inboard engine, reacts really well to the tiller and can be pushed in a tight space by hand so there is no stress onboard. Had my Dad not changed his mind, I think that Mrs P would have pushed me to find one as she considered that we had genuine "quality family time" together.

ISTR that Armel Le chléac'h as a kid/teenager was sailing on an Armagnac with his family, so that must be a good school!

That's a bit off topic though as the OP won't find one in North America. I think that some may have crossed but I imagine that they also came back! Nevertheless I imagine that there were equivalent boats over there?

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30 minutes ago, Panoramix said:

... Nevertheless I imagine that there were equivalent boats over there?

I think much harder to find in North America.

My limited (to a few years) experience with French sailing is that it is less dominated by the “yachting class” and more populated by the navigating / mariner class. Practicality, utility, easy maintenance rated above fancy finishes and pampering. North American boats like their cars (at least used to) feature all sorts of "luxury" options that look good in the showroom but less so a decade or two later under real world use. The mini, the 2cv, the vw bug all from Europe in their soul share much with the Model T but few post war American cars do.

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22 hours ago, apophenia said:

 

5 hours ago, KC375 said:

I think much harder to find in North America.

 

My limited (to a few years) experience with French sailing is that it is less dominated by the “yachting class” and more populated by the navigating / mariner class. Practicality, utility, easy maintenance rated above fancy finishes and pampering. North American boats like their cars (at least used to) feature all sorts of "luxury" options that look good in the showroom but less so a decade or two later under real world use. The mini, the 2cv, the vw bug all from Europe in their soul share much with the Model T but few post war American cars do.

 

5 hours ago, Panoramix said:

 

That's a bit off topic though as the OP won't find one in North America. I think that some may have crossed but I imagine that they also came back! Nevertheless I imagine that there were equivalent boats over there?

 

I think the Moore 24 might be as close to an comparison as you could find over here? I've seen Webb's website and read quite a bit of it, that man is insane. an open 18' boat? That really is small, simple, and now. I'd be tempted to say if he can circumnavigate at 72 in a Moore, so could I at 24..... but he's 10 time the sailor I'll ever be, I think. 

 

Honestly my Pearson 26 wasn't a bad boat. Ashore and I'm guessing wrecked now, but it was the right size, tiller steering, tilt up outboard well, seemed to sail well although I never had it out in strong wind. A good one of those would probably do the trick, assuming the deck isn't soft. Closer to the slow monohull side of the game... but hey, everything has it's downsides. 

 

 

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Webb is indeed nuts. I've been following his adventures (antics?) since Chidiock and while a fascinating character I would never cite him as an example for anyone to follow.

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1 minute ago, SloopJonB said:

Webb is indeed nuts. I've been following his adventures (antics?) since Chidiock and while a fascinating character I would never cite him as an example for anyone to follow.

+1

There is a reason open boats usually are not crossing oceans. Reminds me of the guy from here that tried to set a record by flying a Stearman to the North Pole and back. That is kind of like trying to set a record for driving from Quebec to Chicago in January in a Miata with the top down, there is a reason people don't do that :rolleyes:

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16 minutes ago, kent_island_sailor said:

+1

There is a reason open boats usually are not crossing oceans. Reminds me of the guy from here that tried to set a record by flying a Stearman to the North Pole and back. That is kind of like trying to set a record for driving from Quebec to Chicago in January in a Miata with the top down, there is a reason people don't do that :rolleyes:

Long ocean voyages in open boats should not be by choice.

These guys did 800 miles in an open boat (and even they managed an improvised covering)

390px-LaunchingTheJamesCaird2.jpg

 

But only because their plan A ended up looking like this.

330px-Endurance_Final_Sinking.jpg

 

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Getting back to the original post - I went on a 4 day sail and used a hard kayak. Was workable, but would never want to tow it even coastal where I'm at (SF bay). Still would rather get an inflatable SUP or kayak. Also getting into it wasn't great. In a chop I'd set my chances at slightly better than 50/50. Only used it once, and ironically ended up leaving it on the beach, going for a swim...back to the boat. Then back to shore. Easy to do when you only draw 2.5 feet in a 23' boat.

The two guys I met with nice big boats while on the trip both immediately told me I had a great size boat because it looked nice and cheap to run. B) Grass is always greener. For cheap I'd vote for something between 25-30 feet. Headroom feels like it would be an amazing luxury from my pov...

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49 minutes ago, kent_island_sailor said:

+1

... That is kind of like trying to set a record for driving from Quebec to Chicago in January in a Miata with the top down, there is a reason people don't do that :rolleyes:

I spent a winter driving between Montreal and Kingston in MGB with no top (but a tonneau cover)...the down jacket was half the price of replacing the top and I could use it skiing too. I didn't need a top in the summer cause my laser lived there when not in use and gave good coverage...all the same my first pay check from my summer job went to a new top. There are some things that not even youth can justify the stupidity. Driving through snow storms in an open car (fun fact you don't have to drive as fast in a snow storm as in a rain storm to keep yourself dry) and ocean voyages in open boats are mistakes to learn from others.

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Another option for bombing around the west coast maybe all the way out to Hawaii is the Olson 25. It is much wider than the Moore and therefore more spacious and with a cockpit that you can sit in or on. There are also a small handful of O25s on the market on the west coast. The two in the Seattle area would probably be easy to import, you could buy both of them and new sails and still have money left over from your Flicka budget. Which means you can stay at nicer hotels and eat better cuts of steak when you are tied up. Alternately, Ballenger will sell you a new mast, rigging, and chainplates so that you can turn one of those hulls into 90% new.
 

 

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I just thought about a boat that might suits you: a Contessa 26. A bit on the slow side (short waterline, long keel) but very well designed, very simple and very safe. They go upwind in a blow. Apparently some were manufactured in Canada during the 80s.

300px-Eastern_headland_of_Saltpan_Bay,_L

 

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23 hours ago, Vaeredil said:

 

 

 

I think the Moore 24 might be as close to an comparison as you could find over here? I've seen Webb's website and read quite a bit of it, that man is insane. an open 18' boat? That really is small, simple, and now. I'd be tempted to say if he can circumnavigate at 72 in a Moore, so could I at 24..... but he's 10 time the sailor I'll ever be, I think. 

 

Honestly my Pearson 26 wasn't a bad boat. Ashore and I'm guessing wrecked now, but it was the right size, tiller steering, tilt up outboard well, seemed to sail well although I never had it out in strong wind. A good one of those would probably do the trick, assuming the deck isn't soft. Closer to the slow monohull side of the game... but hey, everything has it's downsides. 

 

 

I suspect that the Moore 24 is faster downwind than the Armagnac, but yes these Moore 24 look like interesting boats. I've never seen one in real.

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23 hours ago, apophenia said:

Another option for bombing around the west coast maybe all the way out to Hawaii is the Olson 25. It is much wider than the Moore and therefore more spacious and with a cockpit that you can sit in or on. There are also a small handful of O25s on the market on the west coast. The two in the Seattle area would probably be easy to import, you could buy both of them and new sails and still have money left over from your Flicka budget. Which means you can stay at nicer hotels and eat better cuts of steak when you are tied up. Alternately, Ballenger will sell you a new mast, rigging, and chainplates so that you can turn one of those hulls into 90% new.
 

 

Steak and speed both, sounds like a decent option to me.

22 hours ago, SloopJonB said:

Here's a possibility.

These have made it across the Pacific.

Bob Perry holds them in high regard.

https://www.usedvictoria.com/classified-ad/haida-26_35853015

image.png.ba1119ba31764fad7b2b8733d46d3f04.png

That one was linked up thread and looks absolutely gorgeous, and 3500 is a crazy good price.... IF it is in that condition. I'm thinking there's gotta be a catch, right?

6 hours ago, Panoramix said:

I just thought about a boat that might suits you: a Contessa 26. A bit on the slow side (short waterline, long keel) but very well designed, very simple and very safe. They go upwind in a blow. Apparently some were manufactured in Canada during the 80s.

300px-Eastern_headland_of_Saltpan_Bay,_L

 

I saw one sailing out of nanaimo when I was out on the west coast and was impressed, seaworthy as hell. They're definitely on my radar especially because of their apparent durability. 

 

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2 hours ago, Vaeredil said:

That one was linked up thread and looks absolutely gorgeous, and 3500 is a crazy good price.... IF it is in that condition. I'm thinking there's gotta be a catch, right?

I like the casual "I circumnavigated one of these around the world back in the day" in the ad... even if it does need a bit of work (it does say the boat is in storage), I'm sure you'd get some good stories from the owner.

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22 minutes ago, andykane said:

I like the casual "I circumnavigated one of these around the world back in the day" in the ad... even if it does need a bit of work (it does say the boat is in storage), I'm sure you'd get some good stories from the owner.

He's gotta have a bit to share for sure. Around the world, there we go. It's possible! I feel like a lot of small boat circumnavigations go unnoticed because the skipper's just don't publicize it at all. Even if it does need work, at that price, there's lots and lots of overhead room in my budget with a price like that. 

 

Sometimes boats like that have me tempted to just say fuck it and leave sooner than planned. 497 days is what my countdown says right now, and I know the money I'm making at this job is easier and more than I'll probably make for quite a while, but the west coast is calling and the days seem to drag on. Got my boat budget of 20k all saved, every day I work now just means longer I can stay on the water when I get out there and a bigger "net"

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The big concern with a Mahew & Strutt Mk1 Haida is that the deck is a plywood over wood deck beams construction skinned with glass.

Lots of potential for rot and I'd want it thoroughly checked out by a good surveyor experienced in wood construction.

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1 hour ago, SloopJonB said:

The big concern with a Mahew & Strutt Mk1 Haida is that the deck is a plywood over wood deck beams construction skinned with glass.

Lots of potential for rot and I'd want it thoroughly checked out by a good surveyor experienced in wood construction.

In Nova Scotia when fiberglass was invented, they started fiberglassing the "curbs" (gunwales) of lobsterboats. They were made of wood--black spruce or yellow birch typically--pretty much just like they had been built on wood boats--or with some plywood, variously (wood was cheap; ply not so). The thought with the fiberglass was that it would be better than paint. They wrapped the glass all the way around. In pretty short order, the curbs got punky and rotted out. Poke hole underneath and water would drain out. So somebody decided to simply not wrap the glass all the way around. The problem was solved, the rot stopped because the water had somewhere to go. (Why did the water get inthere? Because as was realized at the time, you just can't make a perfect seal and the pots and stuff are going to bash it up and get some cracks or holes to elt water in).

 

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4 hours ago, fastyacht said:

In Nova Scotia when fiberglass was invented, they started fiberglassing the "curbs" (gunwales) of lobsterboats. They were made of wood--black spruce or yellow birch typically--pretty much just like they had been built on wood boats--or with some plywood, variously (wood was cheap; ply not so). The thought with the fiberglass was that it would be better than paint. They wrapped the glass all the way around. In pretty short order, the curbs got punky and rotted out. Poke hole underneath and water would drain out. So somebody decided to simply not wrap the glass all the way around. The problem was solved, the rot stopped because the water had somewhere to go. (Why did the water get inthere? Because as was realized at the time, you just can't make a perfect seal and the pots and stuff are going to bash it up and get some cracks or holes to elt water in).

 

Yes, basically this is also how buildings walls made of porous materials work (or fail!). Because of heating, water vapour has to go outward, not an issue on a boat I imagine.

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6 hours ago, SloopJonB said:

The big concern with a Mahew & Strutt Mk1 Haida is that the deck is a plywood over wood deck beams construction skinned with glass.

Lots of potential for rot and I'd want it thoroughly checked out by a good surveyor experienced in wood construction.

The plywood boats built here in the 60s / 70s seem to outlast the GRP ones. So I wouldn't discard it like this, it is very easy to survey and to repair (scarf in a new plywood sheet)

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7 minutes ago, Panoramix said:

The plywood boats built here in the 60s / 70s seem to outlast the GRP ones. So I wouldn't discard it like this, it is very easy to survey and to repair (scarf in a new plywood sheet)

Where are all the failed GRP boats?  Did they get dry rot?

 

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6 hours ago, SloopJonB said:

The big concern with a Mahew & Strutt Mk1 Haida is that the deck is a plywood over wood deck beams construction skinned with glass.

Lots of potential for rot and I'd want it thoroughly checked out by a good surveyor experienced in wood construction.

Just put a lawn sprinkler on it for a few hours, then inspect again.  Honest ply is a good material if kept dry.

The real red flag is glass over ply.  Hard to inspect.

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7 hours ago, astro said:

Where are all the failed GRP boats?  Did they get dry rot?

 

 I think the number of actually unusable GRP boats from the hull failing is vanishingly small. More like they get so clapped out with rotted sails, wet decks, and a dead engine it is cheaper to scrap them and start over than fix them.

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10 hours ago, astro said:

Where are all the failed GRP boats?  Did they get dry rot?

 

I am not sure but I suspect that they die of neglect whereas the plywood boats are loved (see the photo of the Armagnac I posted above). Old GRP/polyester hulls slowly become soft with time and people loose confidence in them whereas owners of plywood boat keep fixing them.

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39 minutes ago, Panoramix said:

 Old GRP/polyester hulls slowly become soft with time and people loose confidence in them whereas owners of plywood boats have to keep fixing them.

FTFY

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5 minutes ago, SloopJonB said:

FTFY

Seriously these plywood boats were well thought out gems and don't need that much maintenance. There are nowhere near a solid wood boat.

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This thread needs input from Will.  He's got an inflatable on his Capri 22:

 

 

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This ad shows what i consider the absurdity of the whole "maximum little boat" philosophy. $59K for a heavy duty 24'. I asked about the one on my dock and it's one of these Dana 24's as well. Very nicely done but...

Just imagine how much used cruising boat in a realistic size one could get for $59 grand these days. That's decent 40 footer territory

image.png.fb7218ed2393a189493bf402935a6cf6.png

https://vancouver.craigslist.org/van/boa/d/saltspring-island-1985-pacific-seacraft/7128318255.html

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4 minutes ago, SloopJonB said:

This ad shows what i consider the absurdity of the whole "maximum little boat" philosophy. $59K for a heavy duty 24'. I asked about the one on my dock and it's one of these Dana 24's as well. Very nicely done but...

Just imagine how much used cruising boat in a realistic size one could get for $59 grand these days. That's decent 40 footer territory

image.png.fb7218ed2393a189493bf402935a6cf6.png

https://vancouver.craigslist.org/van/boa/d/saltspring-island-1985-pacific-seacraft/7128318255.html

59k could get me a *fully* outfitted 35 foot steel world cruiser, the kind of thing that could take me to Antarctica (and beyond?). I can mayyyybe see 19k for a flicka, but wouldnt pay it myself. I cannot fathom where the value comes from to make a dana 24 worth 59k. Who buys that kind of a boat at that price?!

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4 minutes ago, Vaeredil said:

59k could get me a *fully* outfitted 35 foot steel world cruiser, the kind of thing that could take me to Antarctica (and beyond?). I can mayyyybe see 19k for a flicka, but wouldnt pay it myself. I cannot fathom where the value comes from to make a dana 24 worth 59k. Who buys that kind of a boat at that price?!

Nobody. Offer $30K and be prepared to walk away laughing.

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3 minutes ago, Ishmael said:

Nobody. Offer $30K and be prepared to walk away laughing.

I'd take the 26' haida upthread at 3.5k and be a lot happier I think. More room for my two cats, too.....

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18 minutes ago, Vaeredil said:

I'd take the 26' haida upthread at 3.5k and be a lot happier I think. More room for my two cats, too.....

 

On 6/6/2020 at 3:46 AM, astro said:

Where are all the failed GRP boats?  Did they get dry rot?

 

They are eaten by styrene beatles.

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On 6/6/2020 at 2:55 PM, SloopJonB said:

FTFY 

On 6/6/2020 at 2:19 PM, Panoramix said:

 Old GRP/polyester hulls slowly become soft with time and people loose confidence in them whereas owners of plywood boats have to keep fixing them.

FTFY

It's a self-selecting set. Only the ones that were maintained are still here. For the glas, only the ones that didn't sink, burn or otherwise go to the dumpster are here still.

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70s glass sailboats almost never had a cored hull and the hulls were often overbuilt--with some exceptions and some details. The decks, however, were often made with balsa core that was not properly wet out and sealed, and then hardware and other holes peppered the deck. At some point, Baltek started sealing their end grain before shipping. This helped Before that, the balsa would drink up all the resin and you'd have dry ends and dry kerfs.
Even in foam construction, the number of boats incorrectly wet out is staggering. If you don't fill the kerfs, you have failed and the structure is not going to achieve properties and will also be subject to water migration. Foam is not really 100% closed cell. Not given freeze thaw cycles with water in the kerfs!

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From a former Cal 20 sailor and ocean voyager:

 

Voyaging in small craft may not be for everyone, but for those who want to do it badly enough and only have a very limited budget, it's definitely feasible. An attitude of how little one needs, rather than how much one wants, is required.

 

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1 hour ago, Vaeredil said:

59k could get me a *fully* outfitted 35 foot steel world cruiser, the kind of thing that could take me to Antarctica (and beyond?). I can mayyyybe see 19k for a flicka, but wouldnt pay it myself. I cannot fathom where the value comes from to make a dana 24 worth 59k. Who buys that kind of a boat at that price?!

The one on my dock is owned by a geezer who never takes it out.

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4 minutes ago, SloopJonB said:

The one on my dock is owned by a geezer who never takes it out.

But I sure he wouldn't even think about accepting a reasonable offer for it.

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It'll probably end up an estate sale.

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13 hours ago, fastyacht said:

FTFY

It's a self-selecting set. Only the ones that were maintained are still here. For the glas, only the ones that didn't sink, burn or otherwise go to the dumpster are here still.

Yes but plywood boats tend to receive more love so as a percentage of those initially built, more are left as less go to the dumpster!

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1 hour ago, Panoramix said:

Yes but plywood boats tend to receive more love so as a percentage of those initially built, more are left as less go to the dumpster!

I find that hard to believe. But then again, wood rots faster in this part of the world.

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19 minutes ago, fastyacht said:

I find that hard to believe. But then again, wood rots faster in this part of the world.

The golden era of plywood boats here was from the early sixties to the mid seventies, you still see them sailing whereas few plastic boats from the same era are still being used. OK, it isn't an absolute rule as there are quite a few Arpèges around, but the others didn't age well and have disappeared.

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Our harbours are filled with Lecompte, pearson, Alberg, Cal, Hinckley, C&C, Ericson, Irwin, and many others (Chris Craft Apache for instance) and variois Bill Tripp drsigns. All wovenroving.

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On 5/27/2020 at 9:24 PM, Zonker said:

You are stupid if you cruise on one.

Or short.

People who are short have remarkable ideas about how small a boat can be, and still be acceptable.

Bought a house once built by a short man.  Worst decision of my adult life.

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3 minutes ago, 2airishuman said:

Or short.

People who are short have remarkable ideas about how small a boat can be, and still be acceptable.

Bought a house once built by a short man.  Worst decision of my adult life.

Unfortunately, I'm 6'2". 

I'd probably have settled on looking for a contessa already but I hear the headroom is 5'8".... that's a hell of a stoop...

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On 6/13/2020 at 1:06 PM, Panoramix said:

The golden era of plywood boats here was from the early sixties to the mid seventies, you still see them sailing whereas few plastic boats from the same era are still being used. OK, it isn't an absolute rule as there are quite a few Arpèges around, but the others didn't age well and have disappeared.

Say what???????????????

LOADS of 1960s and 1970s era fiberglass boats around here and I could go years between seeing a plywood boat. My boat is 47 years old, made of fiberglass and is still very much in use.

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4 hours ago, kent_island_sailor said:
On 6/13/2020 at 10:06 AM, Panoramix said:

The golden era of plywood boats here was from the early sixties to the mid seventies, you still see them sailing whereas few plastic boats from the same era are still being used. OK, it isn't an absolute rule as there are quite a few Arpèges around, but the others didn't age well and have disappeared.

Say what???????????????

LOADS of 1960s and 1970s era fiberglass boats around here and I could go years between seeing a plywood boat. My boat is 47 years old, made of fiberglass and is still very much in use.

Panoramix is referring to the situation in France, I believe.

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1 hour ago, Ishmael said:

Panoramix is referring to the situation in France, I believe.

Indeed.

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1 hour ago, Ishmael said:

Panoramix is referring to the situation in France, I believe.

Yes, we all know that, (hee-hee!). But it has nothing to do with the area of operation of the O.P. Unpainted aluminium on the other hand, or steel cruisers built without frames...(uh-oh...)

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9 minutes ago, fastyacht said:

Yes, we all know that, (hee-hee!). But it has nothing to do with the area of operation of the O.P. Unpainted aluminium on the other hand, or steel cruisers built without frames...(uh-oh...)

Were there many plywood (stitch and glue) builders in the US?

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6 hours ago, JohnMB said:

Were there many plywood (stitch and glue) builders in the US?

Were there many home-built ferrocement builders in the U.S.? Same answer. Building a cruising boat by yourself inte hbackyard has always been tomfoolery. Too many hours. It's hard enough to finish a 15 footer. Perhaps the Europeans with their generous time off could swing it. Also winter is nowheere near as cold and long in France as it is in the more populated sailing areas of the US of teh 60s. Now Florida has more people than New England more or less but back tehn, no.

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1 hour ago, fastyacht said:

Were there many home-built ferrocement builders in the U.S.? Same answer. Building a cruising boat by yourself inte hbackyard has always been tomfoolery. Too many hours. It's hard enough to finish a 15 footer. Perhaps the Europeans with their generous time off could swing it. Also winter is nowheere near as cold and long in France as it is in the more populated sailing areas of the US of teh 60s. Now Florida has more people than New England more or less but back tehn, no.

I think a big part of that is the French were happily building 25-foot plywood and aluminum boats, and the Americans were building 48-footers out of concrete and steel. Go big or go home...

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1 hour ago, fastyacht said:

Were there many home-built ferrocement builders in the U.S.? Same answer. Building a cruising boat by yourself inte hbackyard has always been tomfoolery.

This is true.

OTOH it's a lot of fun and I'd do it again if I were younger. In fact I'd build 2 or 3 more boats to different designs.

Fortunately I have a GF who said no.

FKT

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