Senator Seditious Maximus

Has the Proverbial Shoe (prices) Dropped Yet?

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Seems like some decent priced vessels are showing up here on the SA Fer Sale page.  The FE 28 looks well priced for what she is.  Will we see prices and the market sink further later this year?  Buy now? Buy later?  Be a low-ball bastard?  Enquiring Minds Wanna Know (tm):

https://sailinganarchy.com/advert-category/30-ft-or-less/

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What I have noticed is LESS boats for sale and it makes no sense to me :unsure: I haven't seen anything close to a bargain except really crap boats that will go to whomever will haul them off for free.

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Boats and RV sales are said to be strong around the PNW due to no one being able to,  or want to, fly out and vacation somewhere else.

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2 hours ago, kent_island_sailor said:

What I have noticed is LESS boats for sale and it makes no sense to me :unsure: I haven't seen anything close to a bargain except really crap boats that will go to whomever will haul them off for free.

As someone with a boat in the market...I've hear sales have been moving and prices haven't pushed down yet.

There is a fair amount of interest in my boat, but no one can come look at it. Such is the international market, anyway.

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I second See level. People are looking at staying at home for the 12 months and want to get out on the water so sales & prices seem to be holding. On the other side, who wants to be owning /selling a boat when the economy dumps? My guess is we will know alot more come August, when rent, mortgage forgiveness go away.  I am sitting on the fence as well. 

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16 minutes ago, JimBowie said:

Will it? (a one word answer is suffice)

Nobody knows (sorry, two words!)

I've been in the market for a few months since I sold our boat in early March.  Boats here (SoCal) are selling like crazy.  I started my search by looking for boats over my budget that had been sitting and lowballing.  Had exactly zero luck.  I lowered my expectations & even then I had three or four boats sell out from under me.  The boat I ended up with (in process of closing now) I made an offer on within 24hrs of it coming on the market as the inventory is terrible right now.  Boatyards down here are absolutely jammed, and the good shops are booked through the summer.  

I have no interest in missing an entire season of cruising with my family in the hopes of saving 25% on the purchase price of a boat (which will probably need to be spent in deferred maintenance anyway).  There's no real safe option for summer vacationing other than boating or road tripping.  

If we get a strong second wave in the fall and the economy tanks, boats might get cheaper.  Find a boat that you love that you can afford and go out!  You're gonna lose your shirt either way, 'cause it's a boat!

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Well thanks to the wankers in China, HK is getting screwed Royal and people are fleeing.  I hear two RP-75s up for sale. Pyewacket for around 350K and Enigma for about 250k? 

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3 hours ago, George Hackett said:

Well thanks to the wankers in China, HK is getting screwed Royal and people are fleeing.  I hear two RP-75s up for sale. Pyewacket for around 350K and Enigma for about 250k? 

How about the TP52 Zhang Wei Zhong?

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32 minutes ago, jhc said:

How about the TP52 Zhang Wei Zhong?

She was sold many years ago. I think she is in Malaysia? 

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6 hours ago, George Hackett said:

Well thanks to the wankers in China, HK is getting screwed Royal and people are fleeing.  I hear two RP-75s up for sale. Pyewacket for around 350K and Enigma for about 250k? 

links to the listings? 

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And Hong Kong seemed such an intriguing place.

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Never to me.

A human ant colony.

I never understood the attraction.

image.png.d4828807f9b27e6e4de7cf44de33f689.pngimage.thumb.png.7dd90837cf03fffb8b35b7877d0a5606.pngimage.png.c58939692bf724001940bcf71f6f51ef.png

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The market for boats and most everything else was stunned for 20 or 30 days then things broke loose. Values up slightly and supply down. Sales are close to strong.

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08-9 recession is a good reference point 

What we do know is everybody will be hurting over the next few years, some more than others

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2 hours ago, Maxx Baqustae said:

That article seems to be about small powerboats. I’m unsure how much it translates into sailboat sales (novice boaters are much more likely to buy motorboats than sailboats, especially when little if any instruction is currently available from Sail Canada).

Anyway, the salesman they quoted is on crack:

Quote

(If you spend your money on a new boat rather than travel) the value is retained. At 10 years, there’s still a lot of money left there when you go to sell the thing.

 

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10 hours ago, jackolantern said:

links to the listings? 

In HK$

7E077CE2-E24F-42D8-A1BB-60E35A49DB70.png

B4D4D8AE-5AA8-4DB8-B941-1D8C7B90C62F.png

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no, and I think it will be a while before it does. at the moment the people who want to sell aren't because they know the market is way soft. give it a while longer and I think you'll start seeing newer boats for sale at fire sale prices. 

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10 minutes ago, frozenhawaiian said:

no, and I think it will be a while before it does. at the moment the people who want to sell aren't because they know the market is way soft. give it a while longer and I think you'll start seeing newer boats for sale at fire sale prices. 

yes...fire sale...I like that term!  Think I'll go fill up some containers with 92 proof and prepare to spread the heat

 

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7 minutes ago, JimBowie said:

yes...fire sale...I like that term!  Think I'll go fill up some containers with 92 proof and prepare to spread the heat

 

it'll be people who can't afford the payments on boats they couldn't afford in the first place. also the usual uptick in boats for sale at the end of boating season from people who don't feel like paying another winters worth of yard storage bills. 

 

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European boat market seems stunned now, because most borders are closed. Before, many boats were sold between Scandinavian countries or between the alpine lakes (south Germany/ Austria/ north Italy/ Switzerland). 

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From blog of Toronto Yacht Sales, FWIW:

A total of 64 vessels have been reported as sold by brokers in Canada for December 2019. 45 of those boats were Power Boats and 19 of those boats were Sail Boats. That is a decrease of 19% from December 2018. 

A total of 59 vessels have been reported as sold by brokers in Canada for January 2020. 39 of those boats were Power Boats and 20 of those boats were Sail Boats. That is a decrease of 18% from January 2019.

A total of 70 vessels have been reported as sold by brokers in Canada for February 2020. 40 of those boats were Power Boats and 30 of those boats were Sail Boats. That is an increase of 43% from February 2019. 

A total of 72 vessels have been reported as sold by brokers in Canada for March 2020. 45 of those boats were Power Boats and 27 of those boats were Sail Boats. That is a decrease of 32% from March 2019.

A total of 80 vessels have been reported as sold by brokers in Canada for April 2020. 60 of those boats were Power Boats and 20 of those boats were Sail Boats. That is a decrease of 29% from April 2019. 

(Not sure how complete those figures are, I think just for a network of CAN yacht brokers? Hard to find decent statistics online without access to a broker database)

 

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11 hours ago, robtoujours said:

From blog of Toronto Yacht Sales, FWIW:

A total of 64 vessels have been reported as sold by brokers in Canada for December 2019. 45 of those boats were Power Boats and 19 of those boats were Sail Boats. That is a decrease of 19% from December 2018. 

A total of 59 vessels have been reported as sold by brokers in Canada for January 2020. 39 of those boats were Power Boats and 20 of those boats were Sail Boats. That is a decrease of 18% from January 2019.

A total of 70 vessels have been reported as sold by brokers in Canada for February 2020. 40 of those boats were Power Boats and 30 of those boats were Sail Boats. That is an increase of 43% from February 2019. 

A total of 72 vessels have been reported as sold by brokers in Canada for March 2020. 45 of those boats were Power Boats and 27 of those boats were Sail Boats. That is a decrease of 32% from March 2019.

A total of 80 vessels have been reported as sold by brokers in Canada for April 2020. 60 of those boats were Power Boats and 20 of those boats were Sail Boats. That is a decrease of 29% from April 2019. 

(Not sure how complete those figures are, I think just for a network of CAN yacht brokers? Hard to find decent statistics online without access to a broker database)

 

But that was then - this is now.  

Boat and RV sales seem to be going through the roof, at least in PNW since May.    I think a lot of newbs and such are deciding since they can't travel to Thailand or whatever exotic place - travel locally and how better than by boat or RV.

Just found out today that one of the owners of our yard just bought a 34 ft Searay - and his is a guy who swore he'd never buy a boat.  But since his usual place of second residence (Palm Springs) is off limits, I guess he figured he needed something to to over the summer.

Who knows, maybe after international borders open up there will be a flood of recently purchased boats on the market.

But right now, local listings are pretty slim and a lot seem to have either dropped the ad or sold in the last few weeks.  I suspect the latter.

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At least the USD vs CAD craziness is ending.  At one point the USD was $1.45 CAD - 33% off sale on boats in Canada.  The USD is back down to $1.35 and likely headed lower thanks to the Donald IMHO.  I'm starting to look at California boats again.  Can't go and see any yet but will do so when the border opens.

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20 minutes ago, Rain Man said:

I'm starting to look at California boats again.  Can't go and see any yet but will do so when the border opens.

Hey, didn't you just buy a SC27? or is that meant to be a racing toy only?

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On 6/3/2020 at 3:22 PM, Greyhound37 said:

The market for boats and most everything else was stunned for 20 or 30 days then things broke loose. Values up slightly and supply down. Sales are close to strong.

This may change if the economic impact is prolonged but for now this seems more like 9/11 than 2008. A friend took me a long to the first fine wine auction in New York after 9/11. The room was empty and stuff was either pulled from the auction of sold pennies on the dollar. I went to the next auction (1 or 2 weeks later) with my pockets full of cash (actually payed down credit card). Everything put up for auction sold way above expected price. First came the shock then came the life is short view.

The let's get on with life (and how else can you take your family on vacation while maintaining a safe bubble) price bump may go away if the economy really tanks.

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1 hour ago, 12 metre said:

Hey, didn't you just buy a SC27? or is that meant to be a racing toy only?

Yes, that's the racing toy - still under renovation in my driveway, but it is getting there.  I'm looking for a cruising boat - almost bought a Catalina 320 in February but it turned out on survey to have the pox and sadly the owner wouldn't drop the price accordingly.  I didn't want to do another DIY blister repair/epoxy bottom job.  Looking for another one, or similar.  The 320 meets all our requirements exactly but there are others that do as well.

20200604_143354.jpg

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58 minutes ago, Rain Man said:

Yes, that's the racing toy - still under renovation in my driveway, but it is getting there.  I'm looking for a cruising boat - almost bought a Catalina 320 in February but it turned out on survey to have the pox and sadly the owner wouldn't drop the price accordingly.  I didn't want to do another DIY blister repair/epoxy bottom job.  Looking for another one, or similar.  The 320 meets all our requirements exactly but there are others that do as well.

20200604_143354.jpg

I think there is a 320 in our yard about 100 yards from my office.  Don't know if it's for sale.  Not many Catalinas I can say I like, but this is one I do.

A bit of a bogus "L-keel" on it - more of a marketing gimmick I feel.

Speaking of boats in Cali, there is a Schock 34 PC listed at $9k, which sounds too good to be true. https://www.sailboatlistings.com/view/85787

Wing keel version though, so that may have something to do with it.  That and it sounds like it needs a bit of work.

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25 minutes ago, 12 metre said:

I think there is a 320 in our yard about 100 yards from my office.  Don't know if it's for sale.  Not many Catalinas I can say I like, but this is one I do.

A bit of a bogus "L-keel" on it - more of a marketing gimmick I feel.

Speaking of boats in Cali, there is a Schock 34 PC listed at $9k, which sounds too good to be true. https://www.sailboatlistings.com/view/85787

Wing keel version though, so that may have something to do with it.  That and it sounds like it needs a bit of work.

Saw that one.  No wing keels for me, which eliminates all the cheaper Catalina 320's.  Or in-mast furling mains for that matter, which eliminates a third of what is on the market for cruising boats at the moment.  We should be able to find something, given our budget and requirements, it is just a matter of waiting until the right boat comes up.

The 320's are very popular with their owners which means they don't come up for sale very often.

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On 6/2/2020 at 8:15 PM, socalrider said:

Nobody knows (sorry, two words!)

I've been in the market for a few months since I sold our boat in early March.  Boats here (SoCal) are selling like crazy.  I started my search by looking for boats over my budget that had been sitting and lowballing.  Had exactly zero luck.  I lowered my expectations & even then I had three or four boats sell out from under me.  The boat I ended up with (in process of closing now) I made an offer on within 24hrs of it coming on the market as the inventory is terrible right now.  Boatyards down here are absolutely jammed, and the good shops are booked through the summer.  

I have no interest in missing an entire season of cruising with my family in the hopes of saving 25% on the purchase price of a boat (which will probably need to be spent in deferred maintenance anyway).  There's no real safe option for summer vacationing other than boating or road tripping.  

If we get a strong second wave in the fall and the economy tanks, boats might get cheaper.  Find a boat that you love that you can afford and go out!  You're gonna lose your shirt either way, 'cause it's a boat!

The two best days of your life....

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to be fair in ca at least we have had a good 10 year run of a strong economy so anybody that doesnt have to sell wont.. however if we dont bounce back, 12 months from now the market will most likely be entirely different

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(If you spend your money on a new boat rather than travel) the value is retained. At 10 years, there’s still a lot ofmoney left there when you go to sell the thing.

On 6/4/2020 at 7:47 AM, Svanen said:

That article seems to be about small powerboats. I’m unsure how much it translates into sailboat sales (novice boaters are much more likely to buy motorboats than sailboats, especially when little if any instruction is currently available from Sail Canada).

Anyway, the salesman they quoted is on crack:

 

It sort of sounds crazy but he is sort or right, I hired a boat for a week last year in Croatia, leaving out flights etc, I still spent AU$23,000 for the boat. My group was 7 people and each night was about AU$1,000 at a restaurant. Over 10 years that adds up plus what we spent on the other few weeks. Last Feb I was negotiating to purchase a 70’s Corvette and do Route 66 which I can’t imagine doing now, so if I was to actually spend a month on my own boat per year that would mean I would have an asset when I was finished with it. 

 

 

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1 hour ago, madboutcats said:

(If you spend your money on a new boat rather than travel) the value is retained. At 10 years, there’s still a lot ofmoney left there when you go to sell the thing.

It sort of sounds crazy but he is sort or right, I hired a boat for a week last year in Croatia, leaving out flights etc, I still spent AU$23,000 for the boat. My group was 7 people and each night was about AU$1,000 at a restaurant. Over 10 years that adds up plus what we spent on the other few weeks. Last Feb I was negotiating to purchase a 70’s Corvette and do Route 66 which I can’t imagine doing now, so if I was to actually spend a month on my own boat per year that would mean I would have an asset when I was finished with it. 

 

 

You dudes down there know how to have a good time, Crayfish, Sheep or retirement? lol

 

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On 6/4/2020 at 2:44 AM, SloopJonB said:

Never to me.

A human ant colony.

I never understood the attraction.

image.png.d4828807f9b27e6e4de7cf44de33f689.pngimage.thumb.png.7dd90837cf03fffb8b35b7877d0a5606.pngimage.png.c58939692bf724001940bcf71f6f51ef.png

being forced to live like that made a few guys very rich

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2 hours ago, paps49 said:

You dudes down there know how to have a good time, Crayfish, Sheep or retirement? lol

 

Haha that’s close and funny, actually I can drop a trap 4km from my house and get crayfish, so my wife eats plenty of crayfish, I make my living from sheep but not retired.

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I sold a fairly expensive Chris Craft launch powerboat for more than I purchased it for in about 5 minutes this spring, and could have sold 5 more if I had them. 
 

In the northeast everyone was buying powerboats. 

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To update this topic, I graphed more data from United City Yacht Sales in Canada - they reported on their site summary data for ALL (brokered) used boat sales in Canada. 

Notes: October is missing. They don't report national data from before Jun-19. I have no affiliation, just been looking around for any hard data at all. 

I can post more detailed data on the UCY sailboat sales later if people are interested. Interestingly, there doesn't seem much change in average sales price YoY - more about volume (+50%) and time to sell. 

 

 

Graph1.png

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That's about right. Slow start here and too many people worried about Covid so a very late selling season when on the west coast it gets going at boat show time. Now a huge lack of (good) used inventory here. You'll always get the dreamers of what a boat is worth and the ones that have won't survey.

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I'm on the "32' and Larger Sailboats for sale in the continental US" FB group.  There seem to be a lot of older cruising sailboats in the 40' range going for very reasonable prices if you can tolerate some faded/worn wood in the interiors.  Some of these look to be very ocean-capable and well-prepared and equipped.  Too bad SWMBO has zero interest in going offshore.

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I offered a friend who helped me quite a bit with he boat a price of 9K. New mast, sails are all good ready to sail. He just got divorced and could not take the offer.

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31 minutes ago, Rain Man said:

I'm on the "32' and Larger Sailboats for sale in the continental US" FB group.  There seem to be a lot of older cruising sailboats in the 40' range going for very reasonable prices if you can tolerate some faded/worn wood in the interiors.  Some of these look to be very ocean-capable and well-prepared and equipped.  Too bad SWMBO has zero interest in going offshore.

Don't you mean "was on".  I thought you just bought a 36 ft Jeanneau?

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1 minute ago, 12 metre said:

Don't you mean "was on".  I thought you just bought a 36 ft Jeanneau?

Too lazy to leave the group, besides, it's always interesting to see what boats are selling for.  

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2 minutes ago, Rain Man said:

.. it's always interesting to see what boats are selling for.  

Ain't that the truth.

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That Pete 44 is the S/V Shaula, wasn't that one of the boats that was being used by a Patreon-supported cruising couple?  Something rings a bell there.

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I have to check that marketplace out to dump some boats. I’ll advertise my FE 28 here again soon. Had some lowball offers and held onto it for the summer and never used it...

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1 hour ago, Sail4beer said:

I have to check that marketplace out to dump some boats. I’ll advertise my FE 28 here again soon. Had some lowball offers and held onto it for the summer and never used it...

Hmm.  The black FE 28 that was in the classifieds sold pretty quickly and turned up at my yacht club here in SoCal.

I have had the busiest last five months ever in pre-purchase surveys, in the 30 years I have been doing this!  Not only that.  But, it appears that boats are selling for top dollar and going for asking price! 

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Well, I guess I’ll have to give Scot another $50 soon...

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IMHO - 

Look at other items and services that are in big demand then see if that helps you decide what to do. 

We are seeing a BIG uptick in housing, Cars, Boats and RVS.  Today I saw that elective surgery is making a big comeback.    My take on this is that once the pent up demand AND whatever the new normal is going to be post vaccine none of this high demand will continue.   

Housing already shows cracks in demand.  September did have a huge number of sales.  Yet for the last three weeks the number of applications for mortgages has gone down.  ( 45 - 60+ days to close... AFTER your mortgage is conditionally approved) 

Cars - Big demand especially for light trucks -  Used vehicle prices are up as well.  But this is a double edged sword for the used car lot.  Carvana, Autonation and your local Dealer have to pay more to replace their inventories of used vehicles. If demand and prices go down again they will be stuck with expensive used cars/trucks.

RV's - Far worse than boats because new RV owners are notorious for after the initial use to want nothing to do with their new toy.  So we could be looking at a huge glut of slightly used RVs by next summer. 

Boats - Yes Boston Whalers are selling like hotcakes and I think they will hold their value better than most.  My strongest feeling is that by next summer this huge demand ends.   Further I doubt that beat up boats are going to sell any quicker or at higher prices.   Worse is for those boats that are close to a border or require transportation to new owners in a different country.  In some cases good luck with that transaction.  

My plan was to get some sort of a boat prior to the end of the year.  That may still happen but it would be a boat that has shown no increase in cost AND is looked at as higher quality.  ie Morgan 38 2/3/4, Cal 39, etc.  I would buy a value boat.   I might buy a local one design.  If there is little or no racing and it looks like the One Design will still have a fleet post Covid 19 I would definitely buy especially because the prices should be down.   

Boat Services - Just like housing contractors those services might not be available or there is a wait.  That would end several months after the pent up demand for boats goes down.   

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Big bump in high-end residential sales - like 200% up in the +million market.   Go figure.

Mid market is up 35% over last year.

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1 hour ago, Hitchhiker said:

The black FE 28

I was wondering how hot that boat must get to the touch!

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Try and buy a new production boat, the queue is getting longer for many builders

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1 hour ago, JimBowie said:

Indeed under Trumptard Inc, the top 1% are making out like the bandits they all are...

Trillions chasing billions.. IMO Russia in the 1990s is the future for the West - run by and for oligarchs while the institutional competence of the state decays to 3rd world levels. USians get the great choice to vote between a real oligarch and a senile puppet of oligarchs. Fun!

Anyway back to data crunching.

United City Yachts have detailed sales data for all sailboats sold through them since Feb 2018 posted on their website. This is great because they include the LISTED price and the actual SALES price (!!), and as a bonus how long the boat was on the market! Often the specific listing is even archived on their website if you search via Google! Unfortunately since Jun of 2019 they seem to have massively reduced their participation in this market. Dunno why. I emailed them but no response. As you can see here:

SA Report 2 - UCY Sailboats Sold

This is a shame as it means data since 07-2019 is not so generalisable any more. If only a few boats are available to analyse for a month, then extremely big or small boats can influence the average price very considerably and paint a misleading picture, even if I use the median instead of the mean. (FYI the median listed prices vary around the 40-50k CAN$ mark but there is considerable variation within each sample)

However at least the price reduction in the sales price from the listed price is more consistent when presented in percentage terms.

SA Report 3 - Median Price Reductions per Month

Caveat emptor: You can see with fewer cases to analyse each month there are wilder swings in the results, even using the median of the differences. However, I think I can see a trend where large relative price reductions occurred in the few sales in the winter - and the covid season saw sales price move noticeably closer to the listed price on average than has been the case in 2018-2019. However, it seems to be trending back up?

Finally here is some information on the average time to sell for each boat. Unfortunately this data is only really available on a monthly scale - so lacks precision. 

SA Report 4 - Median Time to Sell - Days

Average time to sell a boat through UCY appears to be 3-4 months during the season - extending to 6 months during winter. Makes sense I suppose. 

My impression of UCY is that they seem to sell only boats in good to excellent condition. Or that Canadians are fastidious about maintenance. Definitely not a brokerage for projects. They do cover all sizes (24-50 feet) and ages (60s-now), mostly cruising yachts. My feeling is that they wanted to get out of the sailboat market in 2019 and have been mostly moving old stock since then? But who knows.

I am looking at the data in more detail but I think it makes more sense to measure prices per kg of displacement to discern price trends. Which requires a lot more work..

 

Edited by robtoujours
Messed up an image
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6 hours ago, robtoujours said:

Doing the rounds on Facebook..

FB Cartoon

 

The above is an exaggeration...  ..... makes me crazy...

 

I've fixed it for you:

VirusXmission.png.2f49ff064b05373874250218c280072d.png

 

you are completely safe in a sailboat offshore.. Even if onshore you have infected covidiots without a mask.

It has been proven, but a range of  Republican, Democratic, Tory and Labour scientists... that the only proven way of staying safe,  is to stay off shore... on a boat and away from infected people...

 

On a boat...... ;)

 

Stay Safe...

Stay Sailing...

 

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2 hours ago, h20man said:

 

The above is an exaggeration...  ..... makes me crazy...

 

I've fixed it for you:

VirusXmission.png.2f49ff064b05373874250218c280072d.png

 

you are completely safe in a sailboat offshore.. Even if onshore you have infected covidiots without a mask.

It has been proven, but a range of  Republican, Democratic, Tory and Labour scientists... that the only proven way of staying safe,  is to stay off shore... on a boat and away from infected people...

 

On a boat...... ;)

 

Stay Safe...

Stay Sailing...

 

 

I would love to see that chart with plastic face shield too, to protect the eyes from micro droplets??  We are flying to S. Carolina in 3 weeks and plan to wear shields as well as masks....

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1 hour ago, billy backstay said:

 

I would love to see that chart with plastic face shield too, to protect the eyes from micro droplets??  We are flying to S. Carolina in 3 weeks and plan to wear shields as well as masks....

Take Vitamin D, zinc and melatonin... and be rested...  stay safe!

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On 6/3/2020 at 3:17 PM, Svanen said:

That article seems to be about small powerboats. I’m unsure how much it translates into sailboat sales (novice boaters are much more likely to buy motorboats than sailboats, especially when little if any instruction is currently available from Sail Canada).

Anyway, the salesman they quoted is on crack:

 

You may get more for a ten year old boat than you would for the photos of your vacation. But maybe not.

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local jetski dealer mentioned they sold > 600 jetskis this summer.  Ugh.

on the bright side, most of them will probably be for sale next summer and unused..I hope.

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Bikes, SUPs, canooes. Dealers couldn't get enough around here. Went into the bike shop on Saturday and it finally looks like a bike shop again, they just got a big delivery in.

There's going to be some good stuff on eBay at some point, question is when exactly.

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On 10/24/2020 at 3:02 PM, JimBowie said:

Indeed under Trumptard Inc, the top 1% are making out like the bandits they all are...

Ignoring the political commentary, the 1% didn’t have much, if any effect on the boating boom this year. First time, middle class families were the driving force behind most of our demand this year. 

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10 hours ago, Monkey said:

Ignoring the political commentary, the 1% didn’t have much, if any effect on the boating boom this year. First time, middle class families were the driving force behind most of our demand this year. 

Indeed, "Staycation" seems to have been the word of the year. 

I have some occasional asking price data from Apollo Duck on Dylan Winters favourite 4ksb - the Westerly Centaur 26. Reason being it is (or was..) a class I had my eye on. Considered in these parts to be the safe starter sailboat per excellence as long as the keels stay on. Grouped by month, the pattern is obvious: 

SA 5 - Centaurs

Bear in mind these months aren't contiguous, but you can compare YoY - May 2019: £6900 - to May 2020: £9000. Same pattern for all other months. Inventory seems to have gone down too - I remember there being always at least 20 Centaurs listed on AD (most in UK), now it's hovering around half that. 

Sucks as I was going to be in this or similar market, downsizing my search now (I'm in Ireland).

 

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1 hour ago, robtoujours said:

Indeed, "Staycation" seems to have been the word of the year. 

I have some occasional asking price data from Apollo Duck on Dylan Winters favourite 4ksb - the Westerly Centaur 26. Reason being it is (or was..) a class I had my eye on. Considered in these parts to be the safe starter sailboat per excellence as long as the keels stay on. Grouped by month, the pattern is obvious: 

SA 5 - Centaurs

Bear in mind these months aren't contiguous, but you can compare YoY - May 2019: £6900 - to May 2020: £9000. Same pattern for all other months. Inventory seems to have gone down too - I remember there being always at least 20 Centaurs listed on AD (most in UK), now it's hovering around half that. 

Sucks as I was going to be in this or similar market, downsizing my search now (I'm in Ireland).

 

My data is all powerboat specific, but I work for the biggest marine engine supplier in the world, so our market research is pretty solid. 

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On 10/27/2020 at 2:19 AM, KC64000 said:

local jetski dealer mentioned they sold > 600 jetskis this summer.  Ugh.

on the bright side, most of them will probably be for sale next summer and unused..I hope.

Yeah right. Latest news is that COVID immunity fades over time. 

Coming soon to your favourite anchorage...

Jetski cunt

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4 hours ago, robtoujours said:

Yeah right. Latest news is that COVID immunity fades over time. 

Coming soon to your favourite anchorage...

Jetski cunt

We've found this mod to the boat helped tame things down, jet skis and bass boats that used to be reckless around us, especially around the marina entrance. Not no more.....

20200813_202445.thumb.jpg.4ea38bdd7224ad0aaedb16ba32f57951.jpg

 

 

 

Bow roller from a 54' on our irwin 30.  Heavy anchor to deal with clay and supercells.

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6 hours ago, robtoujours said:

Yeah right. Latest news is that COVID immunity fades over time. 

Coming soon to your favourite anchorage...

Jetski cunt

Should be legal to shoot them.  They have a fighting chance.

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19 hours ago, Monkey said:

My data is all powerboat specific, but I work for the biggest marine engine supplier in the world, so our market research is pretty solid. 

Yeah, I'd love to see internal industry and brokerage data. Not my field unfortunately. Any insights you can share? 

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3 hours ago, Rain Man said:

Should be legal to shoot them.  They have a fighting chance.

At least we don't have all the jetskis coming up from the San Juans like we use to. Since they banned them down there they had to find new waters to be assholes on. I wonder where they are infesting now.

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2 hours ago, robtoujours said:

Yeah, I'd love to see internal industry and brokerage data. Not my field unfortunately. Any insights you can share? 

Sorry, like every big company, there’s rules that say I get in a whole lot of trouble if I start sharing specifics. All I can really say is that there’s very accurate data supporting the generalized comment I made. 
 

Although a lot of people suffered in the Covid economy, an awful lot of middle class folks found themselves with money to burn on a family toy. That week at Disneyworld with the family that didn’t happen this year makes a nice down payment. The reduction in dining out, going out to the bars, movie theaters, etc. damn near covers the monthly payment. Oh, and toss in the low interest rates. 

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5 minutes ago, Monkey said:

Sorry, like every big company, there’s rules that say I get in a whole lot of trouble if I start sharing specifics. All I can really say is that there’s very accurate data supporting the generalized comment I made. 
 

Although a lot of people suffered in the Covid economy, an awful lot of middle class folks found themselves with money to burn on a family toy. That week at Disneyworld with the family that didn’t happen this year makes a nice down payment. The reduction in dining out, going out to the bars, movie theaters, etc. damn near covers the monthly payment. Oh, and toss in the low interest rates. 

Many also working from home. They're saving in commuting costs, lunch out, a couple of take away coffees, occasional beers after work.  Add that up every day for a few months and you're talking chunks of extra cash.

Not the same for the poor bastard who've lost their work...

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Couple more weeks like this in the stock market (and a Green New Deal) and you'll see prices coming down fast 

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44 minutes ago, Monkey said:

Sorry, like every big company, there’s rules that say I get in a whole lot of trouble if I start sharing specifics. All I can really say is that there’s very accurate data supporting the generalized comment I made. 
 

Although a lot of people suffered in the Covid economy, an awful lot of middle class folks found themselves with money to burn on a family toy. That week at Disneyworld with the family that didn’t happen this year makes a nice down payment. The reduction in dining out, going out to the bars, movie theaters, etc. damn near covers the monthly payment. Oh, and toss in the low interest rates. 

Sounds logical. 

To address the thread title, currently seems like the shoe is on the other foot.

One thing I wonder about is in traditional tourist destinations (e.g. Croatia, Caribbean), what is going to happen to the charter fleets? And what is happening to those blue water cruising boats in random places which will now be going on year two with their owners far away.. couple of YT blogs seem to have been affected in this way. 

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28 minutes ago, robtoujours said:

Sounds logical. 

To address the thread title, currently seems like the shoe is on the other foot.

One thing I wonder about is in traditional tourist destinations (e.g. Croatia, Caribbean), what is going to happen to the charter fleets? And what is happening to those blue water cruising boats in random places which will now be going on year two with their owners far away.. couple of YT blogs seem to have been affected in this way. 

I know a desperate seller of a Hallberg Rassy 53 in New Zealand that can be had for a song! 

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8 minutes ago, Cristoforo said:

I know a desperate seller of a Hallberg Rassy 53 in New Zealand that can be had for a song! 

You licke pickeng at scabbs, dointe you?  Juste sayeng.......                  :)

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A niece of mine and her husband just bought a 19’ center console with a 200hp outboard. They had 5 offers on their old boat (about a 16’ runabout) and sold it for more than they were asking.

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8 hours ago, jerseyguy said:

A niece of mine and her husband just bought a 19’ center console with a 200hp outboard. They had 5 offers on their old boat (about a 16’ runabout) and sold it for more than they were asking.

You need to have a word with your brother/sister/brother in law/sister in law about how they failed to bring up their daughter.

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The used boat pickings are very slim still, the better selling types of used boats seemed to be fought over instead of lingering still. The idea of covid bargains seems to have been a bad joke. It is almost like anything still for sale has to have a major problem or it would have sold :(

Over at the airport even really old planes seem to have got a 25% or more boost, no one wants to ride around with strangers. I was actually thinking about buying something and I was like "You want HOW much for THAT" :wacko:

* the ADSB mandate also hosed prices, the airplane version of AIS is now mandatory around here and there are no $500 cheap units to be had.

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16 hours ago, Ishmael said:

At least we don't have all the jetskis coming up from the San Juans like we use to. Since they banned them down there they had to find new waters to be assholes on. I wonder where they are infesting now.

This is interesting.  Who banned them? How did they ban them?  Who enforces the ban?  Seems a slippery slope. An asshat in ANY kind of boat can be annoying. 

I had a canoe that just couldn't seem to get out of the way of my Sunfish as I was tacking up the creek.  I could see from the look on his face that he didn't understand that I was limited in the direction I could go by the wind.  I'm sure he was annoyed.  Should we ban Sunfish?  Canoes?

There are a lot more powerboats than sailboats and we annoy the fuck out of them.  Be careful what you wish for.

None of us own the waters .  It is one of the few freedoms left to enjoy.  

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My highly unscientific Bob Perry Nordic Yachts Scale is at an all time low.  There is only one Nordic available on Yachtworld.   It is a 40 that rates about an 8 out of 10 but they want 10 out of 10 money.  I have NEVER only seen one Nordic available.  


If you attempt to buy just make sure that every last damn service, part or person you need is available.   If you are competing for something or someone with powerboats good luck!  

 

However ........Have you considered selling ?   If you have time to clean up your boat and gear now is the time to sell.   Junk and project boats need to apply but if you want to get rid of your boat today is the day! 

1. Stock market is in sell off mode this morning.  Hopefully people have cash on hand by the end of the day.  

2. If someone is financing ( Avoid if possible because this will draw out the time to close the deal) rates are low.

IMHO today is the TOP of the used boat market until the spring.   We really do not know what will happen in Spring 2021. 

 

IMHO - Now is the time to sell.....not to buy. 

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