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3 minutes ago, Sean said:


 

2582FFA9-52B9-4FB6-95B5-EF6B9227012D.jpeg

If someone mistook his kneeling for disrespecting the country given that it is during the national anthem, how is that mistake racist?  And how is that how racism works?

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1 minute ago, jzk said:

If someone mistook his kneeling for disrespecting the country given that it is during the national anthem, how is that mistake racist?  And how is that how racism works?

You know, if you have to ask...... then you might be racist.  just sayin...

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1 minute ago, d'ranger said:

You know, if you have to ask...... then you might be racist.  just sayin...

Yeah, you are not really "just sayin" much of anything.

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33 minutes ago, jzk said:

Yeah, you are not really "just sayin" much of anything.

From you I will take that as a compliment.  To most people it is obvious.

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55 minutes ago, jzk said:

If someone mistook his kneeling for disrespecting the country given that it is during the national anthem, how is that mistake racist?  And how is that how racism works?

Yes, ironically

Standing, taking off your hat, and putting your right hand over your heart, is a symbolic gesture. It means what you want it to mean. When a whole bunch of people say it means the same thing, that's what it means... to them.

Kneeling is also a symbolic gesture. What does the group DOING it say it means, to them?

You don't get to define other peoples' terms. To do so, especially in a derogatory meaning, is indeed racist. It's like making fun of another cultures' names.

- DSK

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3 minutes ago, Steam Flyer said:

Yes, ironically

Standing, taking off your hat, and putting your right hand over your heart, is a symbolic gesture. It means what you want it to mean. When a whole bunch of people say it means the same thing, that's what it means... to them.

Kneeling is also a symbolic gesture. What does the group DOING it say it means, to them?

You don't get to define other peoples' terms. To do so, especially in a derogatory meaning, is indeed racist. It's like making fun of another cultures' names.

- DSK

Why are you continuing to make shit up?  The question was how is mistaking his kneeling for disrespecting the country "how racism works?"  I granted that that person mistook the intent.  Can you read?

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8 minutes ago, jzk said:
12 minutes ago, Steam Flyer said:

... You don't get to define other peoples' terms. To do so, especially in a derogatory meaning, is indeed racist.

 

Why are you continuing to make shit up?  The question was how is mistaking his kneeling for disrespecting the country "how racism works?"  I granted that that person mistook the intent.  Can you read?

Here, this is shorter and simpler. Maybe you will be able to grasp it now. I can dumb it down some more for you, if necessary

- DSK

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8 minutes ago, jzk said:

Why are you continuing to make shit up?  The question was how is mistaking his kneeling for disrespecting the country "how racism works?"  I granted that that person mistook the intent.  Can you read?

Why are you? He first didn't stand for the NA, then a player suggested he kneel - he was very public in why this was done. A lot of people supported him, the racists decided to make it about disrespecting the NA, the flag, the USA.  FWIW in 2016 Trump supported him before he didn't.

Have you ever heard of Google? I mean there is a just a world of information at your fingertips.

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5 minutes ago, d'ranger said:

Why are you? He first didn't stand for the NA, then a player suggested he kneel - he was very public in why this was done. A lot of people supported him, the racists decided to make it about disrespecting the NA, the flag, the USA.  FWIW in 2016 Trump supported him before he didn't.

Have you ever heard of Google? I mean there is a just a world of information at your fingertips.

More than being a former NFL player, the man who suggested CK kneel is a veteran - a Green Beret. 

I'll take his analysis of whether kneeling is disrespectful over any of these internet warriors.

The Veteran And NFL Player Who Advised Kaepernick To Take A Knee

He sure as shit didn't mind CK's statement.

nate.jpg

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And with his gesture, he got national, perhaps worldwide attention to his cause. The man’s a hero. 

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1 hour ago, jzk said:

If someone mistook his kneeling for disrespecting the country given that it is during the national anthem, how is that mistake racist?  And how is that how racism works?

Oh, I see, they were mistaken. That must be why he was showered with accolades once his purpose was made clear. 

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Just now, A guy in the Chesapeake said:

Just stop with that nonsense - its crap like that that makes people tired of hearing about it. 

Pointing out that someone doesn't know or understand why CK knelt is nonsense? Some of us tire of the usual suspects stupid questions and opinions. Note - I have jzk and warbird on ignore but do sometimes read when it's a topic that interests me. Sorry if that offends you.

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Just now, d'ranger said:

Pointing out that someone doesn't know or understand why CK knelt is nonsense? Some of us tire of the usual suspects stupid questions and opinions. Note - I have jzk and warbird on ignore but do sometimes read when it's a topic that interests me. Sorry if that offends you.

No - pushing a claim of racist intent where there clearly is not is what's nonsense.  That is what offends me, no matter who does it.  

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9 minutes ago, A guy in the Chesapeake said:

No - pushing a claim of racist intent where there clearly is not is what's nonsense.  That is what offends me, no matter who does it.  

how the fuck do you still think it is about intent?  jesus christ the lengths you go to in order to stay ignorant.

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5 minutes ago, A guy in the Chesapeake said:

No - pushing a claim of racist intent where there clearly is not is what's nonsense.  That is what offends me, no matter who does it.  

Someone who professes to not realize CK was protesting police violence against black people is either

A racist

A moron

In his case it could well be both. I suggest you get offended by something else.

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1 minute ago, MR.CLEAN said:

how the fuck do you still think it is about intent?  jesus christ the lengths you go to in order to stay ignorant.

Wtf are you talking about? Did you read the posts before replying?  Jzk posed a question,  D said "if you have to ask, you might be" - JZK said nothing that was racist, and I'm frankly tired of hearing that everything that's said is racist just because somebody figured out a new way to interpret it as such. Fuck that noise - and anyone who's pushing it. Theres enough real stuff happening to deal with without trying to put someone down by making up shit. 

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3 minutes ago, d'ranger said:

Someone who professes to not realize CK was protesting police violence against black people is either

A racist

A moron

In his case it could well be both. I suggest you get offended by something else.

Did JZK ask that? NO. 

 

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28 minutes ago, A guy in the Chesapeake said:

No - pushing a claim of racist intent where there clearly is not is what's nonsense.  That is what offends me, no matter who does it.  

Asking what it's about would not be racist.

Declaring that it's disrespectful,  without knowing any of the facts, might be racist or might just be silly jingoistic love-me-some-flag-ism.

Continuing to declare that it's disrespectful, and to throw in insults, AFTER having the facts offered, is racist.

Period

If one doesn't like it, one can always STFU about it and give the other person the benefit of the doubt. Unless there's some reason to simply hate-hate-HATE them, which of course is.... oh wait.....

- DSK

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1 minute ago, Steam Flyer said:

Asking what it's about would not be racist.

Declaring that it's disrespectful,  without knowing any of the facts, might be racist or might just be silly jingoistic love-me-some-flag-ism.

Continuing to declare that it's disrespectful, and to throw in insults, AFTER having the facts offered, is racist.

Period

If one doesn't like it, one can always STFU about it and give the other person the benefit of the doubt. Unless there's some reason to simply hate-hate-HATE them, which of course is.... oh wait.....

- DSK

Maybe jzk doesn't like football?

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On 7/30/2020 at 5:06 PM, jzk said:

nly if the police want to be able to question the suspect while in custody and admit the suspect's statements as evidence does Miranda need to be read.  

what do you call arresting something without probable cause or a warrant? what does oregon state law call it?  What requirements must federal agents meet in order to operate off the federal reservation in oregon?  

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32 minutes ago, A guy in the Chesapeake said:

 I'm frankly tired of hearing that everything that's said is racist just because somebody figured out a new way to interpret it as such. 

That's because you are just starting to realize that you are racist through no fault of your own, unlike JZK who is well versed in law but fails horribly at ethics, using his legal knowledge to confuse and obfuscate rather than trying to get to understanding and truth.

I remember when I started to understand just how widespread internalized racism is, and how young the indoctrination starts. But Guy it is not 'a new way to interpret it as such'.  It's the way black people have been explaining it for decades. You are only now starting to listen.

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22 minutes ago, MR.CLEAN said:

That's because you are just starting to realize that you are racist through no fault of your own, unlike JZK who is well versed in law but fails horribly at ethics, using his legal knowledge to confuse and obfuscate rather than trying to get to understanding and truth.

I remember when I started to understand just how widespread internalized racism is, and how young the indoctrination starts. But Guy it is not 'a new way to interpret it as such'.  It's the way black people have been explaining it for decades. You are only now starting to listen.

And he at least deserves some credit for that.

Bear in mind that there are a lot of people who are like that stupid-ass woman in Ohio who said "We weren't racist until Obama" as though 1- it's OK to be racist now and 2- it's Obama's fault. Then there are a number of people who hated Obama for reasons that might not be related to race... he's a Democrat for example, and not a Baptist/Methodist/Little White Church-ist, and he is also the first President younger than Boomers.

- DSK

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Did I get that jzk is a lawyer? Really? Of course Louie Gohmert is as well and was even a military judge so there is that.  As to being racist, once I got out into the world I worked hard at being open minded. Now with the recent events I found myself remembering a black guy that worked for me for a few years, and in the very early 90's he mentioned MLK day becoming a holiday and I thought wtf for? I also realized that if he had been the same guy but white I would likely have given him more responsibility and respect. We got along fine and I was the token white guy on an offshore fishing trip that was a lot of fun. Bottom line is nothing was overt but there was an attitude that I have now realized was not good for him or me.  Now growing up MLK was viewed in my circles as not a good person, cheated on his wife, instigator, trouble maker, pretty much the RW playbook for Obama.  When you are racist it is not easy to either realize it or change it when those around you are the same.

I have gotten better and have also exercised more discretion with those I associate with. There are plenty of folks in the sailing groups who are racist and proud of it. I can't change them but do feel sorry for them. 

edit: My hillbilly neighbors (the ones with the American Flag on the mailbox 24/7 rain or shine) just put up a small Trump sign close to their front door. My better half had to talk me out of putting a bigger BLM or Good Trouble sign in our front yard (they face each other).  Good times.

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46 minutes ago, MR.CLEAN said:

what do you call arresting something without probable cause or a warrant? what does oregon state law call it?  What requirements must federal agents meet in order to operate off the federal reservation in oregon?  

That is another issue.  Of course I don't support arresting anyone without probable cause.  What does that have to do with Miranda?

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1 hour ago, Steam Flyer said:

Here, this is shorter and simpler. Maybe you will be able to grasp it now. I can dumb it down some more for you, if necessary

- DSK

What does that have to do with racism? 

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12 minutes ago, jzk said:

That is another issue.  Of course I don't support arresting anyone without probable cause.  What does that have to do with Miranda?

You already have supported arrests without probable cause in this thread, liar.

Or maybe yer just another demented geriatric.

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1 hour ago, A guy in the Chesapeake said:

Just stop with that nonsense - its crap like that that makes people tired of hearing about it. 

Agree. We should be sufficiently mature here to realize that we're all participants and boosters of racist institutions. Accusing others of racism is useless and dying form of self-delusion.

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31 minutes ago, d'ranger said:

Did I get that jzk is a lawyer? Really? Of course Louie Gohmert is as well and was even a military judge so there is that.  As to being racist, once I got out into the world I worked hard at being open minded. Now with the recent events I found myself remembering a black guy that worked for me for a few years, and in the very early 90's he mentioned MLK day becoming a holiday and I thought wtf for? I also realized that if he had been the same guy but white I would likely have given him more responsibility and respect. We got along fine and I was the token white guy on an offshore fishing trip that was a lot of fun. Bottom line is nothing was overt but there was an attitude that I have now realized was not good for him or me.  Now growing up MLK was viewed in my circles as not a good person, cheated on his wife, instigator, trouble maker, pretty much the RW playbook for Obama.  When you are racist it is not easy to either realize it or change it when those around you are the same.

I have gotten better and have also exercised more discretion with those I associate with. There are plenty of folks in the sailing groups who are racist and proud of it. I can't change them but do feel sorry for them. 

edit: My hillbilly neighbors (the ones with the American Flag on the mailbox 24/7 rain or shine) just put up a small Trump sign close to their front door. My better half had to talk me out of putting a bigger BLM or Good Trouble sign in our front yard (they face each other).  Good times.

Your neighbors have their politics, you have your politics. But being at peace with and loving your neighbors is a critical component of life. You should absolutely put up your BLM sign if you support it, and you should have beers with your hillbilly neighbors and talk about something other than politics.

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46 minutes ago, jzk said:

What does that have to do with racism? 

your reputation precedes you.

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13 hours ago, jzk said:

If someone mistook his kneeling for disrespecting the country given that it is during the national anthem, how is that mistake racist?  And how is that how racism works?

It isn’t racism.  ‘Racism’ is simple very effective bullying tactic.

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3 hours ago, Rok Dog said:

It isn’t racism.  ‘Racism’ is simple very effective bullying tactic.

Yes, of course.  That is why no one here can explain it.

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14 hours ago, MR.CLEAN said:

what do you call arresting something without probable cause or a warrant? what does oregon state law call it?  What requirements must federal agents meet in order to operate off the federal reservation in oregon?  

The only thing I ever had arrested without probable cause was a bunch of boats.  Otherwise, probable cause is required.  

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18 hours ago, MR.CLEAN said:

That's because you are just starting to realize that you are racist through no fault of your own, unlike JZK who is well versed in law but fails horribly at ethics, using his legal knowledge to confuse and obfuscate rather than trying to get to understanding and truth.

I remember when I started to understand just how widespread internalized racism is, and how young the indoctrination starts. But Guy it is not 'a new way to interpret it as such'.  It's the way black people have been explaining it for decades. You are only now starting to listen.

If you have a case to make for something, make it.  Can you?

I am happy to take a very strong position against police abuse.  The police are not there to hassle citizens.  Like when a cop pulls someone over for an expired tag, and then gets the dog to sniff the car.  I love that we live in this new video age, and cops across the country are being put in their place.

The police do have a very limited role.  To protect other citizens from violence and property damage.  And, of course no arrests should be made without probable cause.  

If people loot the target, they need to be arrested.  Deface property?  Arrested.  Trespass through private property intentionally?  Arrested.

I envision a society with a very small police force and very limited government such that all people can go out into the world, create wealth and flourish.  The more people that flourish, the better it is for me.

Racism?  Judging people by the color of their skin is ridiculous and not in anyone's interest.  

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The old south, where white folk know how to treat their niggers and niggers know their place.   We’ve got a lot of work to do still.  Plus the irony of being threatened by old fat men.   People equating racism with Christianity is predictable if one knows the history of Southern Baptists.   People confusing equal rights wih socialism or communism is more confusing,   Dumb fucks.   

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5 minutes ago, Lark said:

 

For their next trick they try should holding up an "all lives matter" sign in the hood.

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8 minutes ago, Dog said:

For their next trick they try should holding up an "all lives matter" sign in the hood.

Those that honestly worry about being ‘taken over’ by black people amaze me.   I think it’s like a Trump, always accusing the other guy of doing what he did.   

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2 minutes ago, Dog said:

For their next trick they try should holding up an "all lives matter" sign in the hood.

oooooohhhh, whattaboutism.  Brilliant response.  And no comment on all the racist honky mofos there. Like I need a reminder never to visit or move to a bunch of white cracker towns.

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1 minute ago, d'ranger said:

oooooohhhh, whattaboutism.  Brilliant response.  And no comment on all the racist honky mofos there. Like I need a reminder never to visit or move to a bunch of white cracker towns.

I didn't mean to imply that those weren't bigots just that they don't have a monopoly on bigotry.

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2 minutes ago, Dog said:

I didn't mean to imply that those weren't bigots just that they don't have a monopoly on bigotry.

If you make the video, I’ll watch it.  

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1 minute ago, Dog said:

I didn't mean to imply that those weren't bigots just that they don't have a monopoly on bigotry.

You don't have to tell me, have spent most of my life in the southern US. I know a litany of racist derogatory terms for every group of people, even white folk. Racism and bigotry are nothing new but a lot of us have managed to crawl out of that sewer.

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Any American minority person who shows the slightest respect for the US anthem 

is misguided. 

First, the song/poem has racist lyrics . .  esp. verse three 

Second, the poem/song was written be an avowed racist, FS Key, who used the power of his office 

to try to get abolitionists hung merely for possessing that literature. 

And it is not historical revisionism to point this out - during Key's own lifetime he was challenged 

as a racist, bigot and an enemy of freedom. 

Standing for the anthem is showing respect, however unintended, for racism. 

So please, spare us that "respect" bull-pucky 

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1 hour ago, AJ Oliver said:

Any American minority person who shows the slightest respect for the US anthem is misguided. 

Hmm let me rephrase that . .  

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On 7/30/2020 at 1:26 PM, Mismoyled Jiblet. said:
On 7/30/2020 at 1:16 PM, Burning Man said:

There's a very easy solution to the issue of Federal troops in PDX...... the protesters can stop their attempts at destroying or defacing federal property and the Fed troops will go home.  Easy peasy lemon squeezy.

:lol: gold!

Thanks, I thought so too.  Glad you agree that not destroying or defacing federal property would be a great way to de-escalate the current tension.  

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12 hours ago, jzk said:

If you have a case to make for something, make it.  Can you?

I am happy to take a very strong position against police abuse.  The police are not there to hassle citizens.  Like when a cop pulls someone over for an expired tag, and then gets the dog to sniff the car.  I love that we live in this new video age, and cops across the country are being put in their place.

The police do have a very limited role.  To protect other citizens from violence and property damage.  And, of course no arrests should be made without probable cause.  

If people loot the target, they need to be arrested.  Deface property?  Arrested.  Trespass through private property intentionally?  Arrested.

I envision a society with a very small police force and very limited government such that all people can go out into the world, create wealth and flourish.  The more people that flourish, the better it is for me.

Racism?  Judging people by the color of their skin is ridiculous and not in anyone's interest.  

Walking down the street? Kidnapped. It’s all good in the authoritarian’s world.

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On 7/30/2020 at 1:52 PM, Steam Flyer said:

Because graffiti justifies unidentifiable Fed agents kidnapping American citizens... on top of all the beating and gassing and rubber-bullet-shooting that went on....

- DSK

I'm not talking about graffiti.  There have been numerous attempts to set the Fed Building on fire and there were homemade explosives thrown or fired into Fed and local Po-Leece blds in both Portland and Seattle.  Didn't they also burn down a Po-Leece station in one of those cities recently too?  

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1 minute ago, Burning Man said:

I'm not talking about graffiti.  There have been numerous attempts to set the Fed Building on fire and there were homemade explosives thrown or fired into Fed and local Po-Leece blds in both Portland and Seattle.  Didn't they also burn down a Po-Leece station in one of those cities recently too?  

So you advocate burning the people while saving the building? Thus "Burning Man" rather than something like "Democracy Man"?

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3 minutes ago, Burning Man said:

I'm not talking about graffiti.  There have been numerous attempts to set the Fed Building on fire and there were homemade explosives thrown or fired into Fed and local Po-Leece blds in both Portland and Seattle.  Didn't they also burn down a Po-Leece station in one of those cities recently too?  

Not Portland. 
 

I know, there’s a bomber in Sudan, let’s drone strike a wedding in Iraq! That’s the ticket!

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1 hour ago, Burning Man said:

I'm not talking about graffiti.  There have been numerous attempts to set the Fed Building on fire and there were homemade explosives thrown or fired into Fed and local Po-Leece blds in both Portland and Seattle.  Didn't they also burn down a Po-Leece station in one of those cities recently too?  

People should not try to burn down public buildings, topple public statues, and hurt the police buildings.

But when people try to burn down public buildings, topple public statues, and hurt the police, buildings, then the largest problem of a healthy and aware society by that point is not that people are doing these things, but that our state of justice, domestic tranquility, and our blessings of liberty are clearly all fucked up beyond recognition.

Those protestors are the canaries in the coal mine, JBSF. The problem isn't that the canaries stopped singing and fell dead to the bottom of the cage, the problem is that a poisonous gas leak in the mine is about to kill us all, and we need to pay attention to a harbinger much worse than some general vandalism.

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12 hours ago, d'ranger said:

You don't have to tell me, have spent most of my life in the southern US. I know a litany of racist derogatory terms for every group of people, even white folk. Racism and bigotry are nothing new but a lot of us have managed to crawl out of that sewer.

Yeah, most of us don't show overt racism any more. The few poor schmucks who didn't get the memo get outted on social media.

But that''s no longer the problem of racism, and the racism of name calling misses the larger problem ... for instance as property owners, you and I pay less property tax than lower income people who rent their homes, but the police don't view that rental income as a revenue source, so they tend to protect you and I, our families and our property from the perceived enemies to our wealth. That level of institutional racism is far more corrosive than anyone calling each other names.

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12 hours ago, AJ Oliver said:

Any American minority person who shows the slightest respect for the US anthem 

is misguided. 

First, the song/poem has racist lyrics . .  esp. verse three 

Second, the poem/song was written be an avowed racist, FS Key, who used the power of his office 

to try to get abolitionists hung merely for possessing that literature. 

And it is not historical revisionism to point this out - during Key's own lifetime he was challenged 

as a racist, bigot and an enemy of freedom. 

Standing for the anthem is showing respect, however unintended, for racism. 

So please, spare us that "respect" bull-pucky 

Yeah, our national anthem sucks, it's hard to sing, it glorifies war, etc., etc..

But the respect we pay isn't to our national anthem, it's to the nation that uses that anthem. That respect we pay isn't to our flag, it's to the nation that is represented by that flag.

Change the anthem, change the flag. It's a shitty anthem, and it's an outdated flag. But the core principles of what our Constitution seeks to protect deserves our respect, because it's brought us to the point where millions of Americans all over our country have the opportunity to demonstrate in public, and change things. That's worthy or our respect.

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18 hours ago, jzk said:

Yes, of course.  That is why no one here can explain it.

I think I can explain it;

And from what I've read from you, you have a pretty solid take on the damaging impacts from racism, you can probably explain it too. It ain't rocket surgery ... when Americans with minority ethnic status are disproportionately killed by cops, or disproportionately suffer in poverty, or don't receive sufficient education, or don't receive the same benefits of their input to their society, then we have a problem of racism in our institutions.

It's like seeing mice in the garage, we need to address the problem before they chew their way through the walls and get into the house.

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2 hours ago, Burning Man said:

I'm not talking about graffiti.  There have been numerous attempts to set the Fed Building on fire and there were homemade explosives thrown or fired into Fed and local Po-Leece blds in both Portland and Seattle.  Didn't they also burn down a Po-Leece station in one of those cities recently too?  

Graffiti isn’t acceptable.

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On 7/30/2020 at 6:43 AM, Steam Flyer said:

However, as a group, there is a big gap in wealth and income, and there is a big LOSS on the part of one group that the other did not have.... inflicted on them by the other....

When are you sending in your reparations check, white boy?  

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On 7/30/2020 at 9:20 AM, Bus Driver said:

They operate as law enforcement on non-federal property "every day all across the country"?

Yes, most if not all, federal LE agencies do that every single day.    CBP, FBI, ATF, US Marshals, ICE, Secret Service.....  Do I need to list more for you?

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On 7/30/2020 at 6:56 PM, Mismoyled Jiblet. said:
On 7/30/2020 at 5:15 PM, frenchie said:

Tom's, like, the least anonymous person here.  He's posted under his real name, he's posted pictures of himself, I know what part of Florida he lives in... like, seriously, WTF?

Nobody and everybody is anonymous on the internet. 

Not true, real names are used on the internet. Here's one place:

https://www.ccappraiser.com/

Now, which property appraiser has a listing for akaGP or Miscut Jib or Mismoyled Jiblet or whatever you'll call yourself next?

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6 hours ago, Raz'r said:

Walking down the street? Kidnapped. It’s all good in the authoritarian’s world.

Who supports an innocent person walking down the street and being kidnapped?

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4 hours ago, mikewof said:

I think I can explain it;

And from what I've read from you, you have a pretty solid take on the damaging impacts from racism, you can probably explain it too. It ain't rocket surgery ... when Americans with minority ethnic status are disproportionately killed by cops, or disproportionately suffer in poverty, or don't receive sufficient education, or don't receive the same benefits of their input to their society, then we have a problem of racism in our institutions.

It's like seeing mice in the garage, we need to address the problem before they chew their way through the walls and get into the house.

Then it is a good thing that black people are not disproportionately killed by cops.  The data shows that if you are a violent criminal, you are much more likely to be killed by the police if you are white than if you are black.

What does your answer have to do with the Kaepernick meme?

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5 hours ago, Burning Man said:

When are you sending in your reparations check, white boy?  

When are you going to join the next lynch mob?

1 hour ago, jzk said:

Then it is a good thing that black people are not disproportionately killed by cops.  The data shows that if you are a violent criminal, you are much more likely to be killed by the police if you are white than if you are black.

What does your answer have to do with the Kaepernick meme?

Like selling untaxed cigarettes, that's a "violent crime" to you?

- DSK

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2 minutes ago, Steam Flyer said:

When are you going to join the next lynch mob?

Like selling untaxed cigarettes, that's a "violent crime" to you?

- DSK

Why do you keep making shit up?  Are you even capable of having a discussion without making stuff up?  Who said selling untaxed cigarettes was a violent crime?

But, if you want to remove the tax on cigarettes, let's do it.  

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11 minutes ago, jzk said:

Any time an innocent person walking down the street is arrested without probable cause, it is outrageous.  

On that, we agree.  It was happening in Portland, and the President vowed to expand Operation LeGend to other cities. 

Forgive me, but I don't recall you registering any of the outrage you say is appropriate when such things occur.

And, speaking of Operation LeGend - anyone wanna take a swing at how the troops in Portland addressed the primary objective of reducing gun violence/homicides in a city?

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Just now, Bus Driver said:

On that, we agree.  It was happening in Portland, and the President vowed to expand Operation LeGend to other cities. 

Forgive me, but I don't recall you registering any of the outrage you say is appropriate when such things occur.

And, speaking of Operation LeGend - anyone wanna take a swing at how the troops in Portland addressed the primary objective of reducing gun violence/homicides in a city?

How many outrageous things to you suppose happen in this country every day about which you post no outrage on this forum?

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Just now, jzk said:
2 minutes ago, Bus Driver said:

On that, we agree.  It was happening in Portland, and the President vowed to expand Operation LeGend to other cities. 

Forgive me, but I don't recall you registering any of the outrage you say is appropriate when such things occur.

And, speaking of Operation LeGend - anyone wanna take a swing at how the troops in Portland addressed the primary objective of reducing gun violence/homicides in a city?

How many outrageous things to you suppose happen in this country every day about which you post no outrage on this forum?

Anything being discussed that outrages me gets labeled as such.  I try to refrain from expressing outrage at things not being discussed.

We've been discussing this topic for a while.  Thus far, your reaction has ranged from "meh" to "they got what they deserved".

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2 minutes ago, Bus Driver said:

Anything being discussed that outrages me gets labeled as such.  I try to refrain from expressing outrage at things not being discussed.

We've been discussing this topic for a while.  Thus far, your reaction has ranged from "meh" to "they got what they deserved".

Now you are just lying.  Can you point to examples of me saying that innocent people that were arrested without probable cause "got what they deserved?"  

Thanks.

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2 minutes ago, jzk said:
6 minutes ago, Bus Driver said:

Anything being discussed that outrages me gets labeled as such.  I try to refrain from expressing outrage at things not being discussed.

We've been discussing this topic for a while.  Thus far, your reaction has ranged from "meh" to "they got what they deserved".

Now you are just lying.  Can you point to examples of me saying that innocent people that were arrested without probable cause "got what they deserved?"  

Thanks.

Clearly, my use of the word "topic" threw you.  You seem to feel the topic being discussed is limited to the actual event of Federal "troops" yanking people from the street without probable cause, throwing them in unmarked rental vans, whisking them off to undisclosed locations, photographing them with a cell phone, cuffing their wrists and ankles, attempting to interrogate them, and then releasing them as if nothing happened.

Go back and look through this thread.  Pay attention to what you've commented on.  Riots, violence, protests, BLM issues, etc.  Anything you've addressed falls under the "topic".  I stand by assessment of your reaction to the "topic".

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Just now, Bus Driver said:

Clearly, my use of the word "topic" threw you.  You seem to feel the topic being discussed is limited to the actual event of Federal "troops" yanking people from the street without probable cause, throwing them in unmarked rental vans, whisking them off to undisclosed locations, photographing them with a cell phone, cuffing their wrists and ankles, attempting to interrogate them, and then releasing them as if nothing happened.

Go back and look through this thread.  Pay attention to what you've commented on.  Riots, violence, protests, BLM issues, etc.  Anything you've addressed falls under the "topic".  I stand by assessment of your reaction to the "topic".

That is not responsive to my question.  Every time the topic of arresting people without probable cause came up and was directed to me, I agreed that it should not be allowed.  It is not my job to comment on every topic raised on this forum.  You said my reaction to such was, and you stated a direct quote with quotation marks: "they got what they deserved."  Show me where I said that.

Thank you.

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19 minutes ago, jzk said:

That is not responsive to my question.  Every time the topic of arresting people without probable cause came up and was directed to me, I agreed that it should not be allowed.  It is not my job to comment on every topic raised on this forum.  You said my reaction to such was, and you stated a direct quote with quotation marks: "they got what they deserved."  Show me where I said that.

Thank you.

The "topic" is everything discussed in this thread.  You've commented on most, if not all, aspects of this "topic".  

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New Call of Duty Game Imagines What If Russia Attacked Own Civilians in Fictional City of PФЯҬLДИD

“And no, we don’t really feel bad about making up a fake city to defend,” Whittle continued. “Because if something like PФЯҬLДИD did exist — government agents kidnapping protesters for no reason other than speaking out against injustice — it would obviously be immoral. That’s why we’re lucky it’s something that only exists in our video game.”

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5 minutes ago, Bus Driver said:

The "topic" is everything discussed in this thread.  You've commented on most, if not all, aspects of this "topic".  

I am going to take that to mean that you can't find me saying that innocent people that were arrested without probable cause "got what they deserved."

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7 minutes ago, jzk said:

I am going to take that to mean that you can't find me saying that innocent people that were arrested without probable cause "got what they deserved."

Take it any way you want.  Frankly, I don't give much of a shit whether you like what I say.

In this thread, you've made clear you have little problem with what has been happening to protesters.

On being abducted (NOT arrested, as you suggest), you agree it is outrageous. 

Getting gassed and shot in the head with less-lethal projectiles, I don't recall such a reaction.

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2 minutes ago, Bus Driver said:

Take it any way you want.  Frankly, I don't give much of a shit whether you like what I say.

In this thread, you've made clear you have little problem with what has been happening to protesters.

On being abducted (NOT arrested, as you suggest), you agree it is outrageous. 

Getting gassed and shot in the head with less-lethal projectiles, I don't recall such a reaction.

If the government is going around gassing innocent people and shooting them in any manner, I would oppose that.

But if people are trespassing through a private community in St. Louis, each and every one of them should be arrested.  If people are blocking the street, and refuse to leave upon being asked, they should be arrested.  If people burn down a police station, they should be arrested.  If people loot a target, they should be arrested.  If they burn down a Wendy's, they should be arrested.  

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3 hours ago, jzk said:

Who supports an innocent person walking down the street and being kidnapped?

Jerkie boy.

cause the person might have been exercising civil rights but blocked some traffic. It’s a new federal offense in his book.

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17 minutes ago, jzk said:

If the government is going around gassing innocent people and shooting them in any manner, I would oppose that.

But if people are trespassing through a private community in St. Louis, each and every one of them should be arrested.  If people are blocking the street, and refuse to leave upon being asked, they should be arrested.  If people burn down a police station, they should be arrested.  If people loot a target, they should be arrested.  If they burn down a Wendy's, they should be arrested.  

See, it’s that blocking a street thing again. You have a good Iggy to gather and walk in public spaces. Streets are public spaces. It sure the fuck isn’t a federal offense to jaywalk that deserves a projective to the head. 
 

I do so love how you mix up something in Minneapolis months ago and some jaywalkers in a different city, now. 
 

law and order my ass. You want your version of white-man order, any way necessary. 

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2 minutes ago, Raz'r said:

Jerkie boy.

cause the person might have been exercising civil rights but blocked some traffic. It’s a new federal offense in his book.

You don't have a civil right to block traffic.  

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Just now, Raz'r said:

See, it’s that blocking a street thing again. You have a good Iggy to gather and walk in public spaces. Streets are public spaces. It sure the fuck isn’t a federal offense to jaywalk that deserves a projective to the head. 
 

I do so love how you mix up something in Minneapolis months ago and some jaywalkers in a different city, now. 
 

law and order my ass. You want your version of white-man order, any way necessary. 

Why do you think I was talking about a specific city?  I referenced events in many cities.  All cities matter. 

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25 minutes ago, jzk said:

If the government is going around gassing innocent people and shooting them in any manner, I would oppose that.

IF?  IF?

Do the videos of exactly that happening not play on your computer?  Does the picture of the woman with a massive forehead wound not show, for you?

(edit) Here is the woman I reference.  It's been shown, before.  The government did that.

115909452_10157341713611516_4093925839095959561_o.jpg

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5 minutes ago, jzk said:

You don't have a civil right to block traffic.  

Is it a federal offense?

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Just now, Bus Driver said:

IF?  IF?

Do the videos of exactly that happening not play on your computer?  Does the picture of the woman with a massive forehead wound not show, for you?

I have not personally investigated all of these incidents you cite.  If they are as you say, I hope someone investigates.  I hope these people sue and get everything they are entitled to.  We must keep government in check.  No one here advocates for a smaller, more limited, restrained government than I do.

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3 minutes ago, Bus Driver said:

IF?  IF?

Do the videos of exactly that happening not play on your computer?  Does the picture of the woman with a massive forehead wound not show, for you?

Why are you even talking to that guy anymore? Best case he is completely delusional. More likely he is talking out of his arse to provoke people into interacting with him, because he can not get any attention in other ways.

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4 minutes ago, jzk said:

Why do you think I was talking about a specific city?  I referenced events in many cities.  All cities matter. 

The policing must be tailored to the events in a single locale. Otherwise you just want authoritarianism.

you certainly are an enigma, a big govt libertarian. Have you seen a psychologist about this malady? 

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Just now, mathystuff said:

Why are you even talking to that guy anymore? Best case he is completely delusional. More likely he is talkinh out of his arse to provoke people into interacting with him, because he can not get any attention in other ways.

Yes, it is delusional to oppose arresting people with out probable cause, and even further delusional to support arresting people for harming others, trespassing, and destroying property.  

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1 minute ago, jzk said:

I have not personally investigated all of these incidents you cite.  If they are as you say, I hope someone investigates.  I hope these people sue and get everything they are entitled to.  We must keep government in check.  No one here advocates for a smaller, more limited, restrained government than I do.

Bullshit. 

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Just now, Raz'r said:

The policing must be tailored to the events in a single locale. Otherwise you just want authoritarianism.

you certainly are an enigma, a big govt libertarian. Have you seen a psychologist about this malady? 

Where is this evidence that you have of me supporting a "big" government?  I think you are just a lying sack of shit.

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Just now, jzk said:

I have not personally investigated all of these incidents you cite.  If they are as you say, I hope someone investigates.  I hope these people sue and get everything they are entitled to.  We must keep government in check.  No one here advocates for a smaller, more limited, restrained government than I do.

See my edit.  That photo has been shared before.  By me.  I believe in this very thread.

Anyway, your weak "I have not personally investigated all of these incidents you cite" is just that - weak.  Are you seriously claiming to be ignorant of the gassing and shooting of US citizens?  Seriously?

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2 minutes ago, Raz'r said:

Is it a federal offense?

Are you implying in some manner that I support Trump's actions of sending federal police into cities to enforce anything other than federal law?

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