JimBowie

Bottom Feeder: What To Buy?

Recommended Posts

I've been trolling the forums prognosticating when the economic bottom might fall-out of the used boat market and expecting to see a flood of boats at basement-bargain prices.  Well.  That's ain't happened.  So why the hell am I posting another one?  Cuz I wanna see how much your opinion aligns with mine on the Ride to Buy.  Given the collection of former war horses for sale here on the SA Classys, which one stands out as a no-brainer buy-now boat in your humble opinion.  I'll share mine later.  You first.

https://sailinganarchy.com/advert-category/30-ft-or-less/

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Looks like there may have been some housecleaning done in the SA Classifieds in the past 24 hrs. so slim pickings from the ads.

There were some 3 pages of 31-39 footers - now only a half dozen ads.  Looks like a similar thing happened with the under 30 crowd.

The FT10 at $20k may suit some PHRF racer on a budget.  Needs some attention but hey $20k.  Wouldn't be my choice, but I'm sure someone will think it's a good deal.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I like the s2 9.1 you can cruise or race and it has head room.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, 12 metre said:

Looks like there may have been some housecleaning done in the SA Classifieds in the past 24 hrs. so slim pickings from the ads.

There were some 3 pages of 31-39 footers - now only a half dozen ads.  Looks like a similar thing happened with the under 30 crowd.

The FT10 at $20k may suit some PHRF racer on a budget.  Needs some attention but hey $20k.  Wouldn't be my choice, but I'm sure someone will think it's a good deal.

Yep, I noticed that, surely somebody will pick it up. The rudder sounds like a fairly easy fix but it also sounds like it needs fixin' up all over. That could easily run $12k IMHO, the question is are the bones worth it and are there others on the market that won't need that cash injection.

FB- Doug

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Cristoforo said:

You can buy a completely tricked out FT10 with new rudder and sails and trailer for $25k.  Much likely less 

That sounds like a better deal. Where?

There are a few for sale around the US, most on the West Coast, most asking $30k and up

FB- Doug

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, MR.CLEAN said:
7 minutes ago, Cristoforo said:

Which one is "completely tricked out with new rudder and sails and trailer for $25k"

:huh:

image.png.042405c2206686502283cb5dcf3d1c07.png

"Or likely much less"

Of course, being a bottom feeder entails making lowball offers, which I am definitely prone to do. Maybe that's the ticket.

FB- Doug

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There was an S2 7.9 listed until a day or so ago.  Price was $13k, I think.  If the boat was dry it seemed like a good opportunity.  There are 4 or 5 of them at my club and from what I can tell, an active class association for a boat that is approaching 40 years old.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
16 minutes ago, Cristoforo said:

If you had any chance of coming up with $25k, I would make the effort to tell you.  

I have sailed too many miles on FT-10s to spend a nickel on one!

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I was going to vote for the Weta, but then I googled them and saw what older models are going for... Holy crap, they're reasonably priced! Hmmm...

If I'm playing with someone else's money, the Fareast or GP26 would be my vote. If it's my money, the Alabama J/80.

The MHOB J/29 will likely sell for less than they have it listed for. Buy it and keep it on Galveston Bay, and I'll bring the beer. I've raced that boat before and it's a nice ride. We could never keep up with the local FROB model, but I suspect the problem was the fleshy components and not the boat itself. The crew on the FROB had been sailing together for ages whereas we were a bunch of misfits.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
15 minutes ago, MR.CLEAN said:

I have sailed too many miles on FT-10s to spend a nickel on one!

any details (summed up)?

just out of curosity... (never sailed on one, and never even seen one)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
58 minutes ago, daan62 said:

any details (summed up)?

just out of curosity... (never sailed on one, and never even seen one)

Back in the old days they had their own forum!

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, daan62 said:

any details (summed up)?

just out of curosity... (never sailed on one, and never even seen one)

Not bad boats if all the flaws are sorted, but for me they are too narrow and uncomfortable, not much one-design action, and too close in price to a decent Melges 24 or 32.   

 

 

 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

One problem with the lo ball offer is the loss of friendly dealing. The insulting offer, even if accepted, puts a chill on things. The PO maybe has a bunch of stuff in his garage that might have come with a fair deal. It's going to be tossed now. More or less worthless to the PO but mucho costly when new buyer shops. I grew up with a sailing stepdad. Wonderful guy and sailor but I quit going boat shopping with him out of sheer embarrassment. 

On my own, I made all the classic cheap boat mistakes. Now, I start at the top. I want the boat that was well maintained, and I'd rather pay for it than grind fiberglass. YMMV.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
23 minutes ago, MR.CLEAN said:

Not bad boats if all the flaws are sorted, but for me they are too narrow and uncomfortable, not much one-design action, and too close in price to a decent Melges 24 or 32.   

 

 

 

just looking around and maybe willing to buy a boat (IN THE NETHERLANDS OR NEARBY)... with none of these boats around it's not part of the selection either way. but just wanting to hear the criteria...  personally fond of contessa 28... (some available in the area...) no j29's for sale over here....!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
24 minutes ago, Blue Crab said:

On my own, I made all the classic cheap boat mistakes. Now, I start at the top. I want the boat that was well maintained, and I'd rather pay for it than grind fiberglass. YMMV

That’s why I got a Fareast28R. I’ve had years of experiencing the “thrill” of buying beaters and pimping them just to sell them off before putting the same amount of time into sailing them. The boat is inexpensive new compared to other one design boats and doesn’t have any issues to sort out.  When I sell it and someone offers a ridiculous lowball, I’ll know they are trying and if I want to, I can accept the offer or turn full bitch on them. Either way, after this season, I’m going to put it up in the classifieds and somehow I’ll get a great deal compared to the one on there now...which is a darn good price.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 minutes ago, daan62 said:

just looking around and maybe willing to buy a boat (IN THE NETHERLANDS OR NEARBY)... with none of these boats around it's not part of the selection either way. but just wanting to hear the criteria...  personally fond of contessa 28... (some available in the area...) no j29's for sale over here....!

contessa 28:

- affordable (dock, sails, insurance, ...)

- easy to handle (also on your own or with newbs)

- easy to do maintenance on your own (painting a 40 ft boat is different to a 28 ft boat)

- built like a brick

- 5 people can sleep without having to rebuild the boat

- got a stove and a shitter

- with the right sails you can race it

 

example of a 'low on my lis' boat: https://yachts.apolloduck.co.uk/boat/contessa-28/636224

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
21 hours ago, J24TrickBag said:

I was going to vote for the Weta, but then I googled them and saw what older models are going for... Holy crap, they're reasonably priced! Hmmm...

If I'm playing with someone else's money, the Fareast or GP26 would be my vote. If it's my money, the Alabama J/80.

The MHOB J/29 will likely sell for less than they have it listed for. Buy it and keep it on Galveston Bay, and I'll bring the beer. I've raced that boat before and it's a nice ride. We could never keep up with the local FROB model, but I suspect the problem was the fleshy components and not the boat itself. The crew on the FROB had been sailing together for ages whereas we were a bunch of misfits.

One of the things I toy with is getting a J-29, they are by far my favorite J except for the uncomfortable cockpit... it's at least decently proportioned... and putting a masthead chute on the frac version.

I prefer the FRIB. There's only about a dozen variations

GP-26 looks like an awesome ride too. Never even seen one in person.

FB- Doug

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

+1 for the 9.1 SE. The 9.1s are great all around boat for racing with a well established rating and plenty of room for weekend cruising if that's your cup of tea too. The SE has a taller rig than all the other 9.1s and it's well worth it, especially in light air venues. Hell, I would have to think long and hard about paying them 14,000 just for the rig and inventory if I weren't knee deep in restoring/refitting a 9.1 already.  If it's as dry as they claim then it's very accurately priced at 14,000. Only two things I don't like about the SE version is the porta potty and the stripped out v-berth.

With all that said, I'm waiting for a reasonably dry, and well maintained Farr 30 to hit the market in the mid to low 20s before I make another boat purchase. I figure I'm about 5 or so years away before the prices drop down to this point.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 6/11/2020 at 3:35 AM, 12 metre said:

Looks like there may have been some housecleaning done in the SA Classifieds in the past 24 hrs. so slim pickings from the ads.

There were some 3 pages of 31-39 footers - now only a half dozen ads.  Looks like a similar thing happened with the under 30 crowd.

The FT10 at $20k may suit some PHRF racer on a budget.  Needs some attention but hey $20k.  Wouldn't be my choice, but I'm sure someone will think it's a good deal.

Yeah, they dropped my S2 7.9 off there.   Was wondering when that would happen.  Though obviously my 7.9 is still the best pick of that entire list.  :lol:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
23 hours ago, jerseyguy said:

There was an S2 7.9 listed until a day or so ago.  Price was $13k, I think.  If the boat was dry it seemed like a good opportunity.  There are 4 or 5 of them at my club and from what I can tell, an active class association for a boat that is approaching 40 years old.

Yeah, that's mine.  I'm too cheap to buy another ad right now.  Boat's got it's winter clothes on and will stay that way for the summer.  There are actually 2 others for sail at the yard I'm at.  One is an inboard, mine and the other outboards.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
49 minutes ago, Grrr... said:

Yeah, that's mine.  I'm too cheap to buy another ad right now.  Boat's got it's winter clothes on and will stay that way for the summer.  There are actually 2 others for sail at the yard I'm at.  One is an inboard, mine and the other outboards.

Tried to send you a private message about your boat.  The SA message thingy said Grrr could not receive any messages. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, jerseyguy said:

Tried to send you a private message about your boat.  The SA message thingy said Grrr could not receive any messages. 

Huh.  Looks like my PM's were full.  Fixed it now.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I would buy the Front Runner if we get another corona stimulus and a matching price drop. It is right at my lead limit.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 6/12/2020 at 1:46 AM, Blue Crab said:

One problem with the lo ball offer is the loss of friendly dealing. The insulting offer, even if accepted, puts a chill on things. The PO maybe has a bunch of stuff in his garage that might have come with a fair deal. It's going to be tossed now. More or less worthless to the PO but mucho costly when new buyer shops. I grew up with a sailing stepdad. Wonderful guy and sailor but I quit going boat shopping with him out of sheer embarrassment. 

On my own, I made all the classic cheap boat mistakes. Now, I start at the top. I want the boat that was well maintained, and I'd rather pay for it than grind fiberglass. YMMV.

Yeah, seen this myself. I don't low-ball people.

Once I was buying a lathe off of an old dude. He had it for $950 ono. I assessed it as being worth double that, easily. I told him so and said he should re-advertise it even though I wanted it.

He just laughed and said his worthless SIL told him he'd never get more than $500 for it. He was happy with his asking price.

I told him I'd brought $1000 cash with me and was that close enough for a near offer then.

I left with not only the lathe but every other bit of machinery accessories he could think of.

All because I wasn't a dick and dealt fairly.

FKT

  • Like 6

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
17 minutes ago, Fah Kiew Tu said:

Yeah, seen this myself. I don't low-ball people.

Once I was buying a lathe off of an old dude. He had it for $950 ono. I assessed it as being worth double that, easily. I told him so and said he should re-advertise it even though I wanted it.

He just laughed and said his worthless SIL told him he'd never get more than $500 for it. He was happy with his asking price.

I told him I'd brought $1000 cash with me and was that close enough for a near offer then.

I left with not only the lathe but every other bit of machinery accessories he could think of.

All because I wasn't a dick and dealt fairly.

FKT

I bought a concrete mixer of an old guy for a very good price and I told him it was a bit cheap and gave him asking price . He then took me into his workshop and I filled my trailer and car with odds and ends for an extra $50 plus some free harness gear for my Clydesdale horse ! 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

old dudes with nice tools and no kids interested in them, would rather sell stuff to people who appreciate what they are and are happy to see their shit go to a good home where it'll be used..

  • Like 6

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Great vibes. I'm soon traveling to look at a (really) good old boat. The price doesn't cover what the guy paid for the M25 with 200 hours on it and the same owner has had the boat 20 years and most of its life was in Lake MI. Did I mention the varnished teak? The awlgrip paint job? If I pop, I'll hand him the asking price. And no need to change the name. He got it exactly right the first time.  Win win. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Roger That on bring fair and reasonable.  It ends up being win/win in my opinion.  I dislike the haggling part of deal making, I decide what I will pay and if I can't get whatever it is for that price I say thank you and move on.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

That’s how I got a couple of tons of teak and Marine accessories a few years back.

Wanted to buy a few pieces of teak and had a couple thousand I was going to buy a boat with.

Wound up buying all the wood instead because he was never going to use it and wanted it to go to good use. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Totally agree - screwing people over a few bucks - even boat bucks is only for dicks.

Karma is a real thing.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 6/11/2020 at 9:29 AM, Cristoforo said:

Back in the old days they had their own forum!

I helped design them....;)

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Sail4beer said:

That’s how I got a couple of tons of teak and Marine accessories a few years back.

Wanted to buy a few pieces of teak and had a couple thousand I was going to buy a boat with.

Wound up buying all the wood instead because he was never going to use it and wanted it to go to good use. 

so did you build a boat with the teak?

Quote

Don't waste peoples time and don't insult them with lame offers.

the corollary is that some people set irrational prices..

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
17 hours ago, Grande Mastere Dreade said:

old dudes with nice tools and no kids interested in them, would rather sell stuff to people who appreciate what they are and are happy to see their shit go to a good home where it'll be used..

Got a boat like that...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Irrational 14 said:

Don't waste peoples time and don't insult them with lame offers.

Actual money is not a "lame" offer.

Just say, "No, for that amount of money I'd just as soon keep it." Slamming the door on somebody that likes your boat (or whatever) enough to offer actual money may come back later with a higher offer if you don't piss them off.

FB- Doug

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I made a lowball (at the time) offer on my current boat, about 25% below asking. I wasn't a dick about it, just let him know that the boat was bigger than I'd budgeted for and it was the best I could do at the moment. He didn't take offense and said he'd keep it on the market in the hopes of a better offer until and unless he needed to sell in hurry. A few months passed, he didn't get the offer he was hoping for, he found a boat he really wanted, and he came back motivated. In the meantime, I'd been able to save a little more and we settled at about 20% below asking. About a year after the sale he dug up a bunch of spares he'd forgotten about, including a couple complete winches, and rather than sell or ditch the stuff he went out of his way to give it all to me for free. All told, an excellent transaction.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
18 hours ago, Grande Mastere Dreade said:

old dudes with nice tools and no kids interested in them, would rather sell stuff to people who appreciate what they are and are happy to see their shit go to a good home where it'll be used..

Some young dudes with boats want them to go to good homes. Decades ago (when I was young) a guy left me a note about his relationship with a boat I owned. The boat was not fore sale. I got the note. We had a nice chat. I had a long think. He ended up with the boat at a very good (IMO) price. When last I saw it he'd done nice things with the boat and that made me happy. 

I don't see the harm in making low offers. When on the selling side of these things I appreciate having options.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Grande Mastere Dreade said:

so did you build a boat with the teak?

No, I was smart this time. I have way too many boats anyway.However, I did build doormats, shower pan inserts, laminate tillers and frames for hulls. Not to mention backing plates, oarlock bases, cockpit soles, hatches, toe rails and a bunch of other shit. 

The PO of the teak was selling it on eBay for years but had way too much unsold stock, sold his home to move to Florida and needed to offload the wood. I offered to pay more and make payments but he was just glad someone could come and take it away and make something of it. 
 

I did pay him the $1,000 asking price for a Grizzly planer a few weeks before and he was happy about that.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Rumor has it @Editor is negotiating for this beauty as A5 for a low-ball price of....ssshhhh! I can't tell you.  It's embarrassingly low.

 

7118407_20190617143500057_1_LARGE.jpg

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, IStream said:

I made a lowball (at the time) offer on my current boat, about 25% below asking. I wasn't a dick about it, just let him know that the boat was bigger than I'd budgeted for and it was the best I could do at the moment. He didn't take offense and said he'd keep it on the market in the hopes of a better offer until and unless he needed to sell in hurry. A few months passed, he didn't get the offer he was hoping for, he found a boat he really wanted, and he came back motivated. In the meantime, I'd been able to save a little more and we settled at about 20% below asking. About a year after the sale he dug up a bunch of spares he'd forgotten about, including a couple complete winches, and rather than sell or ditch the stuff he went out of his way to give it all to me for free. All told, an excellent transaction.

I don't regard 25% below ask as a "lowball offer" - that's a reasonable opener with a goal of meeting at 10% - 12% below ask.

40% or 50% is a lowball to me.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 6/11/2020 at 11:46 AM, Blue Crab said:

One problem with the lo ball offer is the loss of friendly dealing. The insulting offer, even if accepted, puts a chill on things. The PO maybe has a bunch of stuff in his garage that might have come with a fair deal. It's going to be tossed now. More or less worthless to the PO but mucho costly when new buyer shops. I grew up with a sailing stepdad. Wonderful guy and sailor but I quit going boat shopping with him out of sheer embarrassment. 

On my own, I made all the classic cheap boat mistakes. Now, I start at the top. I want the boat that was well maintained, and I'd rather pay for it than grind fiberglass. YMMV.

Agreed. I always start out by telling them what a nice boat it is. Wow, does that open doors. Then, you talk boats, and that is always extremely informative. Your price is still your price, but there are many ways to be civil and gracious about it, and at the end of the day everyone has had a good day. Don’t count out karma, either.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
20 hours ago, SloopJonB said:

I don't regard 25% below ask as a "lowball offer" - that's a reasonable opener with a goal of meeting at 10% - 12% below ask.

40% or 50% is a lowball to me.

Peoples' expectations have changed with culture. For a while, I invested directly in real estate, and studied ways to make it effective. Publications back in the late 1970s / early 1980s said that the average offer was 25% below ask, and average closing price was 15~20% below depending on the cycle of the market. Now I've heard 10% below ask described as an insulting lowball. This is just crazy, to me. How the fuck are you going to sell anything if you start throwing punches when somebody tries to buy it?

The flip side is also true, the last real estate we sold had a long string of crazy dysfunctional buyers. Insulted when we asked for a letter confirming finance at signing the contract. Demand hundreds of unrealistic concessions. Insult the furniture. Try to chisel the price down down for a wide variety of excuses including "we don't want to pay more than we have to." I calmly sat thru the whole thing, but if I had to be an agent or broker and deal with this kind of behavior from both sides, I would be banging heads together a couple times a week.

mookiesurfs has an excellent point: if you like a boat enough to pay actual money for it, compliment it to the seller. Break out of the combative mode people so often get into. Several times when I've made offers for boats that were what I wanted but not in the shape I wanted nor hot on the market, I would say what I liked about the boat and why I wanted it. Also, why I was holding back some money to spend on fixing it up, nicely of course.

- DSK

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

An acquaintance has a 4KSB he's asking 7500 for. A fair price for the boat comparatively. It has some nice features but an obviously soft cockpit sole. He's had offers I'm not privy to but hasn't sold. He mentioned to me that he could repair the damage with a week of work. I suggested he do it as most buyers of this type boat wouldn't have those skills. But no.

I just noticed his boat back for sale. Same price, same comment on soft sole, only now he's paid another year of slip rent and natural deterioration.  I know this guy and know both he and the wife want to move up. I don't get the point of hanging on this long when you have an issue as serious as I think this is. I'd love to know what the offers have been. If it were me, I think I'd have taken a 50% offer by now. Win some lose some. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, Steam Flyer said:

Peoples' expectations have changed with culture. For a while, I invested directly in real estate, and studied ways to make it effective. Publications back in the late 1970s / early 1980s said that the average offer was 25% below ask, and average closing price was 15~20% below depending on the cycle of the market. Now I've heard 10% below ask described as an insulting lowball. This is just crazy, to me. How the fuck are you going to sell anything if you start throwing punches when somebody tries to buy it?

I guess it depends on how you price stuff in the first place. I don't add a 'haggle' margin because doing that shit just annoys me. When I decide to sell something I price it to market or probably a bit on the low side, BECAUSE I WANT IT TO GO AWAY.

Now I say up front that the price is the price.

Yet I still get people making offers.

If it's by text or email I simply don't reply. Can't be bothered wasting my time.

Anyone who tries the trick of turning up then telling me they only have $X on them and will that be OK gets told to go away because I've someone else arriving to look in an hour. Ditto for people bad-mouthing the item saying it's in worse shape than they thought so don't want to pay the asking price, someone else is coming, they might be happier with it so off you go.

Surprising how often either they find the extra money or decide that the condition is OK after all.

If after a few weeks it hasn't sold (never happened to me yet) I'd reassess either the price or my desire to sell it for less if that's the current market.

FKT

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I price with a similar strategy. When I want to sell something, I want to sell it quickly so I make sure it's priced aggressively to market. However, I try to respond to everyone, even the ones who're playing games at first, in a polite and professional manner. It doesn't take much effort and more than once I've had someone come back from my "thanks for your offer but my price is firm" and end up buying the item.

What I won't tolerate is someone wasting my time by playing along, coming out to inspect the item, and then trying to lowball me with lies and bullshit. Those folks get shown the door.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now