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Vendée – Arctique – Les Sables d’Olonne race.

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Just worked out what Thomas Ruyant is doing differently. No wonder he is leading. 

Screenshot_20200706-204904_Photos.jpg

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3 hours ago, LeoV said:

I sailed from Schull for a few months, shelter on Irish shore for wind... yes no yes no, you get accelerations due to ragged coast line. Waves yes, but not swell. I bet it had nothing to do with weakness, but wind tide waves interaction. It is a bit showing that sailors new on the boats tacked much further offshore, Ruyant, Cremer, Koji.

What had you in Schull? An extremely nice part of the world- one of my favourite places to race. 

 

 

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While the last time I was to quick to post and only focused on VMG instead of ground speed, I didn't make the same mistake twice.
Tripon temporizing and changing option (as Sodebo did during Brest Atlantique) to avoid worst condition, or something more worrying?

On another note, Ruyant is leading and commanding, first to tack. They are probably close enough to see each other AIS and he could have waited to cover the first one to tack but didn't. He was closely followed but still shows some confidence. The different groups are becoming more and more apparents, quite surprise to see foilers (especially 2nd gen) performance upwind.

Picture1.png

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Yep... Definitely something wrong onboard L'Occitane... Sad

OK, back on track again. Let's hope it was just a glitch...

Strike that, it's the map from one hour before. No way to tell...

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Armel T option was/is aimed at preserving the boat, explained below by the team manager :

 

 

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4 minutes ago, RedFlag said:

Yep... Definitely something wrong onboard L'Occitane... Sad

Could he just be parked up? Looks light

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I read that too but was strange to see him point South, but now corrected on last update, pointing west again.

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1 minute ago, yl75 said:

Armel T option was/is aimed at preserving the boat, explained below by the team manager :

 

 

This just says he has been going easy on the boat. No report of damage. He is still doing 4 knots in what could be 6 knots of wind

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I think Thomas has made the right choice looking at the wind overlay

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I like the pic chosen by TR as avatar : "no smile, I mean business guys" :)

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10 minutes ago, terrafirma said:

This just says he has been going easy on the boat. No report of damage. He is still doing 4 knots in what could be 6 knots of wind

Smart - more important getting miles under the keel now than trying to go all out for the win. 

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15 minutes ago, Icedtea said:

Smart - more important getting miles under the keel now than trying to go all out for the win. 

And to properly qualify for Vendee, he needs to finish the race.  

Here's a fun contest to watch...  average finish among the ladies vs. the gentlemen.  If you score the abandons so far as shown (19th and 20th), then the women currently average 9.5 and the men average 10.75.  (I realize there are numerous reasons for this beyond simply who's sailing better, but it's great to see 3 women in the top 8 at the moment, and it'll be interesting to see if they can keep it up or even move up).

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I wouldn't even go there and obsess about men vs women in imoca - every skipper is an individual and arrived at this juncture on their own journey. 

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2 minutes ago, Miffy said:

I wouldn't even go there and obsess about men vs women in imoca - every skipper is an individual and arrived at this juncture on their own journey. 

Agreed.  That said, I’m rooting for Sam Davies.  Imagine what she could do with a brand new boat!  

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Armel not localised since 13.30. Let's hope for the best

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He's diverting back to Brittany - boat damage.

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Feel terrible for Armel.  It was always going to be a challenge.  Now, it seems even more so for him.  Hope the damage isn't too bad.  I think I read up thread that racers can resume racing to get miles under the belt / other requirements for the VG after having repairs made to the boat.  If that is a possibility, I hope Armel can pull it off and make the starting line in November.  

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Quote

Armel Tripon (L'Occitane en Provence) contacted the race direction of Vendée - Arctique - Les Sables d'Olonne on Monday at 1:15 p.m. (French time) on Monday. The Nantes skipper was advancing west, at a speed of 12 knots in a northwest wind.

At 2 p.m., Armel Tripon contacted his team to report a problem; two longitudinal beams located to starboard aft of the repaired area following the collision with an OFNI the weekend of June 21 have cracked.

"We are unable at this stage to assess more precisely the cause of this new incident even if we seriously believe that it is collateral damage linked to this collision in an area that we had planned to reinforce on the return of the Vendée-Arctic-Les Sables d'Olonne race, " said Michel de Franssu, team manager.

Then the skipper of L'Occitane en Provence contacted the race director to consider the options.
 
Jacques Caraës, race director, invited the skipper to be cautious, warning him not to try to reach the IOC-Unesco point, the course mark located in the southwest of Iceland. 

The precautionary principle and safety therefore led Armel and his team to make the decision a few moments ago to join Trinité-Sur-Mer, the home port of the boat.

Jacques Caraës, Race Director for the Vendée-Arctique-Les Sables d'Olonne and the Vendée Globe:  “Armel is necessarily very saddened by the situation. After the discussions on the damage, which seems substantial, I invited the skipper to be careful. Then I wanted to reassure him by detailing the devices that still allow L'Occitane en Provence to aspire to a qualification for the Vendée Globe 2020. ”

Armel Tripon was put in contact with Christian Dumard, the meteorologist from Vendée-Arctique-Les Sables d'Olonne in order to establish the safest route to reach his home port.

Armel Tripon started the race with, among his ambitions, that of conquering his sporting qualification for the Vendée Globe. The fact that he took the start opens the possibility of asking him to make a substitution course, as provided in article 9.3 of Amendment 3 to the Notice of Race for the Vendée Globe, dated 2 June 2020.


https://www.imoca.org/fr/news/news/avarie-a-bord-de-l-occitane-en-provence-le-bateau-se-deroute-vers-la-bretagne

 

Of course we don't know how bad the initial impact was - but I think everyone who saw the hull cutout/bulkhead was a little surprised at seemingly lack of/insubstantial amount of core material in the bow laminates. Cracking in 2 longitudinal beams is bad news.  

I really hope it isn't the case - but imoca design isn't easy, and with a new designer & new builder... a lot of things can go wrong. I hope the boat is reparable and can be sufficiently strong for the VG - but it wouldn't be the first new exciting boat to not really make it much past the starting line because the boat building compromise sliding scale went too far to one extreme.

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Structural damage juste behing the repaired patch.

He can still qualified for VG even if he doesn't finish, because he took the start, if he completes a substitute course

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Not sure what that "substitution course" could be, but I bet they will find a way to let him participate in the VG ...

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Skippers who enter with new boats get the same preference as skippers who finished the last race. I think folks with an old boat, who aren't particularly PR worthy and didn't finish the last VG are in the most jeopardy. 

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On the other hand that boat might be built a bit on the "light side" (first race boat for the yard as well).

Are we sure he hit an OFNI for the first damage ?

What people will say if a big breakage in the South ? "How could you let that boat go !!" ..

But still I would bet he will be on the VG start line.

Also, do the scow bow "style" imply stronger build in the bow ?

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7 minutes ago, yl75 said:

Are we sure he hit an OFNI for the first damage ?

What people will say if a big breakage in the South ? "How could you let that boat go !!" ..

But still I would bet he will be on the VG start line.

The exchange between team and organizer sounded a bit like a wild card guarantee.

On the other hand, I imagine he will still have to comply with 2000 miles solo as everyone does. Even if the team chose not to race in exposed sea, that put some miles under the boat and kind of validate the design.

Has been thinking the same on recent breakages, and noticed that Arkea didn't blame any OFNI even if it happened when skipper was at rest (if I read correctly). Outside of the PR bits, it might also be in their interest vs boat builder, don't know what they have for clauses.

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Here's a  pic during build of Occitane, just happens to be the repaired spot too.  pic is looking down into the boat before the deck went on. Longitudinals were bonded in before the bulkheads

77379894_2525859054130223_6355103743129681920_o.jpg

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Reposting the structure in question when they repaired it for comparison. 

FCF423F4-3A14-4068-B1F5-4F4AFF3C7A60.jpeg

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45 minutes ago, yl75 said:

 

Not sure what that "substitution course" could be, but I bet they will find a way to let him participate in the VG ...

My pick would be a 2000nm course but imposed by race orgz.iser instead of freely like usual.

But that's just a guess

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This is actually good news for Armel.  It's unlikely he would have taken the opportunity to smash the hull the weather for three days if there wasn't a mandated race mark.  This would have ended his Vendee Globe.  Good news is, out of the box, his boat seems very fast off the wind.

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Cremer showing how a crowdfunded mini pogo 3 campaign can launch you into imoca if you’re good, work hard but also a natural communicator 

 

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1 hour ago, Lakrass said:

The exchange between team and organizer sounded a bit like a wild card guarantee.

On the other hand, I imagine he will still have to comply with 2000 miles solo as everyone does. Even if the team chose not to race in exposed sea, that put some miles under the boat and kind of validate the design.

Has been thinking the same on recent breakages, and noticed that Arkea didn't blame any OFNI even if it happened when skipper was at rest (if I read correctly). Outside of the PR bits, it might also be in their interest vs boat builder, don't know what they have for clauses.

Interviews read like all 3 of the Arkea Paprec foil breaks were failures rather than impacts.  There has to be a lot more to it than they are making public.  Wondering also if JK was the lead designer for the V2 C foils.  It seemed from some interviews that even for the V1's he may not have had full final say on the design.  Maybe the foil hull exit  point is behind some of the issue with possibly unsuspected loads not being fully understood and breaking down the structure of the foils pretty quickly.  Anyway they are really up against it now. with no safe bet foils in hand  Maybe go for daggerboards and expect several foilers to retire or be otherwise impacted which seems very very likely.

As far as L'Occitane is concerned they really achieved nothing from this race.  They didn't push it, perhaps knowing they may have issues and now they are done.  Nothing much to be gained from any of that.

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2 hours ago, Miffy said:

 

Of course we don't know how bad the initial impact was - but I think everyone who saw the hull cutout/bulkhead was a little surprised at seemingly lack of/insubstantial amount of core material in the bow laminates. Cracking in 2 longitudinal beams is bad news.  
 

But I thought that it was the mode of construction for all recent IMOCA? No core material, more longitudinal stiffeners, on a "thicker" carbon fiber skin for the forward part of the hull (thicker being a relative term, here...). I believe Alex Thomson started the trend with the previous Hugo Boss.

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5 minutes ago, Laurent said:

But I thought that it was the mode of construction for all recent IMOCA? No core material, more longitudinal stiffeners, on a "thicker" carbon fiber skin for the forward part of the hull (thicker being a relative term, here...). I believe Alex Thomson started the trend with the previous Hugo Boss.

I haven’t cut into any recent ones :P but my understanding was with the foiling boats, they’ve had to switch out nomex cores with PVC foam from the bow to the keel area where there’s more slamming/compression than before.

it might be design - it might be fabrication - it might be just accidental damage. Just kind of scary/bad vibes from prior VGs when new generation of boats were failing because they were being built too light. Love the race and class. Don’t want anyone hurt or programs to fail because architects and builders were afraid to say no. 

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5 hours ago, Icedtea said:

What had you in Schull? An extremely nice part of the world- one of my favourite places to race.

Delivered a Swan 48 from the Med to an Irish owner who had a 2d home there, stayed for a few months, did some friendly races, sailed the owner around. Baltimore, Crookhaven, Kinsale, it was fun.

have a small problem to seethe tracker, but with menu 3 stripes righthand top, then racetracker it works.

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2 hours ago, popo said:

My pick would be a 2000nm course but imposed by race orgz.iser instead of freely like usual.

But that's just a guess

Indeed what will probably happen :

Quote

The fact that the skipper took the start of the race, means that he is entitled to refer to article 9.3 of Amendment 3 of the Notice of Race for the Vendée Globe, an amendment dated 2 June 2020. This enables a skipper forced to retire from a spring race to have the right to sail a replacement course spanning 2,000 miles, the route of which must be validated by Race Management and completed by 15 September.

https://www.imoca.org/en/news/news/two-retirements-and-a-vision-of-tomorrow

September 15 isn't that far away, they will need to move fast on designing/deciding and completing the "serious repair/strengthening compared to the original".

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Kojirosan’s reef hook problem has been resolved. 

0B82B067-1401-46DF-AA4C-C7DE658ADBCB.jpeg

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1 hour ago, Laurent said:

But I thought that it was the mode of construction for all recent IMOCA? No core material, more longitudinal stiffeners, on a "thicker" carbon fiber skin for the forward part of the hull (thicker being a relative term, here...). I believe Alex Thomson started the trend with the previous Hugo Boss.

This was also my understanding (without forgetting the structural failure on HBprevious on its first rdr, or was it the transat? And others had issues as well) 

But also read as Miffy is writing above that they moved back to sandwich, at least for part of the "bottom" 

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7 minutes ago, yl75 said:

This was also my understanding (without forgetting the structural failure on HBprevious on its first rdr, or was it the transat? And others had issues as well) 

But also read as Miffy is writing above that they moved back to sandwich, at least for part of the "bottom" 

He certainly had laminate issues during the last RdR, but the initial issues were during a different Transatlantic.  Maybe even a return delivery?  That boat used solid laminate for the hull, reinforced with lots of internal structure.  I think the new one uses a sandwich laminate instead.  This race would have been a great opportunity to further test the new HB before the VG.

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25 minutes ago, r.finn said:

He certainly had laminate issues during the last RdR, but the initial issues were during a different Transatlantic.  Maybe even a return delivery?  That boat used solid laminate for the hull, reinforced with lots of internal structure.  I think the new one uses a sandwich laminate instead.  This race would have been a great opportunity to further test the new HB before the VG.

This was the TJV 2015, jp dick also had issues. 

http://www.actunautique.com/2015/11/video-les-terribles-images-de-l-imoca-60-hugo-boss-sombrant-demate.html

(not to forget Thomas Ruyant who managed to bring a "flexing boat" with a major failure back to Australia during the last VG, what was that boat again?) 

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Le Souffle du Nord??

Edit: confirmed yep - V and B - Mayenne now :)

Look at the tracker now - BP upwind on a better VMG angle. 

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Kevin Escoffier on PRB dropped a bit because he had to make a repair on his main sail. He had a hole to patch and had to stay with 2 reefs longer than the other boats. He still has to "finish" his repair and waits to be in the lull, after the upcoming low pressure system passing by them, to drop the main and finish the repair.

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Update from Charal 

https://www.charalsailingteam.fr/les-depressions-senchainent-jeremie-beyou-aux-avant-postes/

Tonight, we had up to 35 knots with the sea that went with it, I went to two reefs and D3. . Taking reefs is not an easy maneuver, but it had to be done because it made the boat a little less fickle. I did a lot of maneuvering off the Irish coast, the idea was to get a flatter sea and a little less wind. For each tack, it takes between 20 and 30 minutes, between the start of the weight transfer and the end of the maneuver. "

" This is a great start to the race and it's not over, because there are a chain of depressions, so you don't have much time to eat, sleep and take care of yourself. I also could not take a tour of the boat, I would have to manage to stand up to go do it, the sea should calm down today, it will be more favorable. "

Monday looks likely to be a little less uncomfortable, since the wind will drop below 15 knots and the sea should be milder. Before Monday night a new depression from the west should arrive. "We don't really know how this depression will present itself, whether it will be strong or not, and behind it is a bit of a slump, in the sense that we wonder how we are going to get to the Unesco Buoy and especially how we will get back. "The rest of the week promises to be much calmer in terms of conditions, with a large high pressure area from which it will be very difficult to escape ...

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Woah if Beyou can get a tack completed including shifting all the gear in 20-30 minutes... that’s a huge advantage and shows the strength of his abilities and program. In years past, it’ll take an hr. 

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Hello armchair navigators. Looking at windy it seems to get a little complicated north of the upcomming low because this one is travalling straight east, not north east. What do you say?

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FB_IMG_1594078565920.jpg

Still a bit wet at the back 

FB_IMG_1594078652029.jpg

Credit Charal 

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No wonder Alex didn't do this race.! He would have broken something. Conversely I think the 3 leading boats and PRB etc will answer durability questions with their boats and I'm not sure Alex has done this yet? If Apivia, Linked Out and Charal can finish this race in one piece they will have an advantage over Alex IMO. Sad to see L'Occitane out and damaged he has a lot of work to do to qualify, repair the boat and catch up to the teams who have had time on the water. The thing that stands out for me as we speak is the VPLP, Guillaume Verdier boats are the ones to beat. Late comers have a mountain ahead of them in this race to Everest.

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I really like Thomas Ruyant's position, he is in a very strategic place, putting himself closer to the mark, and above Jeremie  Beyou and Charlie Dalin. Plus he will have a better wind angle for the next 24 hours as well, if the wind as predicted, holds that is.

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41 minutes ago, Rainbow Spirit said:

I really like Thomas Ruyant's position, he is in a very strategic place, putting himself closer to the mark, and above Jeremie  Beyou and Charlie Dalin. Plus he will have a better wind angle for the next 24 hours as well, if the wind as predicted, holds that is.

The boats under him are going a little faster but yes he has full control from this position. 

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Boris, aboard Seaexplorer - YCDM has his afterburners lit right now. 

Screen Shot 2020-07-07 at 3.24.18 PM.png

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2 minutes ago, Sailbydate said:

Boris, aboard Seaexplorer - YCDM has his afterburners lit right now. 

Screen Shot 2020-07-07 at 3.24.18 PM.png

23 Knots VMG..! Farrk. If this continues he will gain some miles

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That's instantaneous - look at the 4 hr avg - Boris is sailing well but he's also sailing a better angle than the folks to the west. 

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Linkedout leaking miles to the boats behind, they have picked up 10 miles with Charal and Apivia now only 15 miles behind. Boris did 85 miles in the last 4 hours vs 58 for Thomas so we are seeing a compression. Charal and Apivia boat for boat racing. Will learn a lot about each other

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Boris must have had sailing lessons from Greta !!!

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Sebastien Simon interview about his foils below :

https://www.letelegramme.fr/voile/sebastien-simon-je-ne-suis-pas-serein-pour-le-vendee-globe-06-07-2020-12578392.php

Basically he is saying he doesn't understand at all what happened, he doesn't think he has hit anything.

They will engage an independent expert to try to find out.

He also says his foils have been built by Avel (built contract with Lorima), also the case for the Apivia foils :

https://www.avelrobotics.com/our-robot

And that the guy who has "checked"(not sure what it means here) his foils is the same that also did it for Alex.

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33 minutes ago, Rainbow Spirit said:

Does anyone now when the tracker updates and how often? Thanks.

http://vendeearctique.geovoile.com/2020/tracker/
It's indicated in the top and next to each skipper's name on the left list. Supposedly updates every 30min but more about every hours for me. Some reports 1min later (no big deal) and sometimes they don't update at all but at least you know the time of the last position (like Fabrice A. with his position 23:30 still reported at 08:00 this morning, CET).

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Problem aboard PRB?

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1 hour ago, yl75 said:

And that the guy who has "checked"(not sure what it means here) his foils is the same that also did it for Alex.

I would imagine he's referring to any NDT testing that was done during the foil commissioning.

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26 minutes ago, NZK said:

I would imagine he's referring to any NDT testing that was done during the foil commissioning.

Yes, that or the double check of the structural engineering (pretty standard practice these days).

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4 hours ago, terrafirma said:

Linkedout leaking miles to the boats behind,

less fokin round with vids and more actual sailing ..........

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2 hours ago, yl75 said:

Sebastien Simon interview about his foils below :

https://www.letelegramme.fr/voile/sebastien-simon-je-ne-suis-pas-serein-pour-le-vendee-globe-06-07-2020-12578392.php

Basically he is saying he doesn't understand at all what happened, he doesn't think he has hit anything.

They will engage an independent expert to try to find out.

He also says his foils have been built by Avel (built contract with Lorima), also the case for the Apivia foils :

https://www.avelrobotics.com/our-robot

And that the guy who has "checked"(not sure what it means here) his foils is the same that also did it for Alex.

Wow. That was a great interview. Sebastien is really hurting. Before the destruction of the foil, he thought the boat had amazing speed, even upwind, so he is happy she has plenty of potential. Lots of other interesting info about hull strengthening work too. Check it out.

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13 minutes ago, Mid said:

less fokin round with vids and more actual sailing ..........

Actually, it was more about not transiting that high pressure ridge as well as the others, IMO.

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13 minutes ago, Sailbydate said:

Actually, it was more about not transiting that high pressure ridge as well as the others, IMO.

lot of facets to that sailing game ...

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1 hour ago, Sailbydate said:

Problem aboard PRB?

Fixed now, or at least pointing forward again, same for Maitre Coq which pointed east for a bit. I guess we see a lot more of those with tracker refreshing every 30min instead of 4h during a solo race. There are good chances that if they need to go downwind for a bit to fix something, it will take more than 30min and will appear on tracker.

Was interesting to hear from Beyou that as soon as he got the chance, we went for a boat inspection. That's where some experience might make the difference, looking and detecting potential problems before they occur.

Next day will be tricky on routing.

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Charal in the lead

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1 hour ago, Sailbydate said:

Problem aboard PRB?

Just a good night's sleep after a tack gone awry.

 

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39 minutes ago, M26 said:

Charal in the lead

Yes, Thomas made his first mistake going East (when routing was in fact pointing West like the others did)

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Well done to the girls who have both made sound tactical decisions. Only around 48 miles behind in older boats makes you wonder what they could do with newer faster boats. Great to see a change of leader boat plenty of passing lanes ahead.!

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Looking like they are all going to see some light airs very soon, for a while..this will be interesting.

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Best video this far, especially the food part when Clarisse mentioned that she ate some Charal today. Brilliant!
For the rest, she mentioned it's first time with full sail, she could have sent it before but didn't since she knew she had to bring it down after. She's looking forward a "quiet" night.

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3 minutes ago, Lakrass said:


Best video this far, especially the food part when Clarisse mentioned that she ate some Charal today. Brilliant!
For the rest, she mentioned it's first time with full sail, she could have sent it before but didn't since she knew she had to bring it down after. She's looking forward a "quiet" night.

Never noticed the washed out white interior looks like an attempt at painting carbon to brighten the interior. A little decorative touch perhaps? :D

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3 minutes ago, terrafirma said:

Never noticed the washed out white interior looks like an attempt at painting carbon to brighten the interior. A little decorative touch perhaps? :D

I was thinking it was previously painted and they started sanding it off. 

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4 minutes ago, terrafirma said:

she could have sent it before but didn't since she knew she had to bring it down after.

ain't gunna win like that .

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2 minutes ago, Mid said:

ain't gunna win like that .

She has no illusions as to winning with BP - she's sailing a good conservative race in an older boat.
 

3 minutes ago, ctutmark said:

I was thinking it was previously painted and they started sanding it off. 


Yah Gabart and Meilhat both kept the white painted interior & during the refit they sanded it off.

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1 minute ago, Miffy said:

She has no illusions as to winning with BP - she's sailing a good conservative race in an older boat.

so it's a cruise ;)

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I mean... if you want to be that dismissive - at least she's sailing in the top 50% of the boats that participated in the Vendee Arctique... 3 years ago she was finishing her Pogo 3 minitransat campaign. 

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I'm getting the feeling that this race will not be showing us much about how everyone will perform in the Vendee, way too much upwind, and light winds.

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