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Vendée – Arctique – Les Sables d’Olonne race.

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This has been incredible.  Several restarts in one event.  Those who don't complete this IMOCA "clinic" are at a disadvantage for the upcoming VG.  

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And huge shout out to PRB for their skipper's first solo race.

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3 minutes ago, staysail said:

Looks like your prediction for the top 3 is holding quite good so far! A lot still to play for though!

Charal seems to be stretching it out a bit in front.  A shade more speed in a bit less wind.

Maxime seems to have overtaken Clarisse in the non-foilers.

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Is is on...

 421974207_ScreenShot2020-07-14at18_44_25.png.797f3ae17f343cb56c812d69fb452a05.png

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2 minutes ago, JonRowe said:

Is is on...

 421974207_ScreenShot2020-07-14at18_44_25.png.797f3ae17f343cb56c812d69fb452a05.png

Dammit!  Now how am I supposed to get any work done?

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Is he double-reefed because that is the right configuration?  Or because of the headboard issue?  Doesn't look like much breeze.  

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Because of headboard issue, from "reading between the lines" on his comment during one of his videos.

 

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1 minute ago, Laurent said:

Because of headboard issue, from "reading between the lines" on his comment during one of his videos.

 

It's kinda depressing to look at that footage and think that the boat is "slow".

My boat wouldn't move that fast if I put four million volts through it.

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11 minutes ago, Corryvreckan said:

Dammit!  Now how am I supposed to get any work done?

Yellow boat is pulling ahead. You can get back to work: it will be Charal, Apivia, Linked out. Or not.

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I'm wondering if Boris has a shot at PRB.  He's got speed on PRB.  Nice angle.  More wind...

PRB might even need to worry about Bestaven.

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4 minutes ago, Your Mom said:

I'm wondering if Boris has a shot at PRB.  He's got speed on PRB.  Nice angle.  More wind...

PRB might even need to worry about Bestaven.

Probably depends how much the stronger wind moves south towards PRB. 

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15 minutes ago, Your Mom said:

I'm wondering if Boris has a shot at PRB.  He's got speed on PRB.  Nice angle.  More wind...

PRB might even need to worry about Bestaven.

I doubt it, his wind angle is better, but I think he has to come down too much. 

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A little recap:  Sam and Charlie sailed low to get some separation, (in anticipation of the forecast header)   found a nice wind band and gained some miles. Charlie tried to consolidate the gain by following the pressure back up to Charal but wound up losing ground to Thomas over the whole maneuver. Meanwhile, Sam held her course. Her boat is a little slower so we can’t tell if it paid, but I think it’s a good example of commitment and patience. If you invest in a strategy but don’t wait for the return (the header and better reaching angle) then you’ve sailed further at less optimal angles. Might have cost Charlie a place if Thomas’ better speed in the lighter air near the coast pays off. 

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Thomas trying to bait Charlie into sailing too high but doesn’t have the speed to make it happen yet. 

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17 minutes ago, OPAL said:

Any live coverage yet?

Please, Please.....anyone with a link?

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Well, from this side of the pond, looks like Charlie put the spurs to her and put a mile on Thomas.

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For those on FB: 

 

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5 minutes ago, JonRowe said:

For those on FB:

That's gotta be old footage - he hasn't finished yet, has he?

 

Edit:  OK, guess the tracker is slower to update than I thought.

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Alex should have done that race

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Gotta like Thomas’ attitude, forcing a jibing dual after 3000 miles. It ain’t over till it’s over. 

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9 minutes ago, yl75 said:

Alex should have done that race

I have been wondering about that. I didn't follow the Boss lately but was there a particular reason?

BTW I think Sam really nailed the approach to the finish. Too bad she lacks some boat speed in comparison to 1-3

 

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12 minutes ago, AnotherSailor said:

I have been wondering about that. I didn't follow the Boss lately but was there a particular reason?

BTW I think Sam really nailed the approach to the finish. Too bad she lacks some boat speed in comparison to 1-3

 

Alex Thomson just needed to do 2,000 miles to qualify and the team decided it wasn’t in the best interest of their development program to beat up to Iceland and back down to Azores then back across the Biscay. 
 

He could do 2,000 miles solo in 5 days - get the boat cleaned then back out to gather more mode data with a full development team. 
 

this race has been amazing to follow - but I don’t think you can say with a straight face that the conditions help you learn much about sailing 80% of the VG. 

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8 minutes ago, Kenny Dumas said:

Charlie smoking Thomas over the last few hours. I wonder why. Maybe Thomas broke something?

I was wondering the same thing and curious about sleep patterning to optimize the finish.

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2 minutes ago, dolphinmaster said:

I was wondering the same thing and curious about sleep patterning to optimize the finish.

Boris has also really slowed down - he seemed to be threatening PRB a few hours ago.

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Congratulation Jeremie, Charlie and Thomas. Nice job, Samantha.

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15 minutes ago, Sarimanok said:

Does anybody know why all the boats, except PRB, are staying outside?

good question .

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My understanding is that because of COVID19, they are supposed to go back directly to their home port. Just like they came directly from their home port to the start line, without stopping in Les Sables D'Olonne for what would have been the race village...

I did not think that PRB home port was Les Sables, though... Maybe a technical problem? It is the home port of La Mie Câline of Arnaud Boissière.

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just knew COVID19 was going to raise it's head :(

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8 minutes ago, Mid said:

just knew COVID19 was going to raise it's head :(

That explains why some of the finished boats are heading out again. That's a bummer when you've been at sea for that amount of time and wan't a nice hot meal, see your family etc. On the positive side at least they got to sail and race so a small price to pay. Great race and for me some badly needed entertainment. Good thread. Cheers to all..

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36 minutes ago, Sarimanok said:

Does anybody know why all the boats, except PRB, are staying outside?

The ultimate turn and burn.  Wow.  Throw on some food, a couple of crew and some fuel and get on home.  

Sailing in the Covid era.  Mackinac race take note.  

 

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Thread / race had me forgetting all about covid. There I was checking tide windows to enter / leave Les sables and missed the obvious. 

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5 minutes ago, Meat Wad said:

Fricking incredible almost no wetted surface.

EcoDiNmWkAIcghb.jpg

 

I'm amazed at those perfectly tight luffs in the head- and mainsails. Our very expensive 3Di sails never look that tight...

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1 minute ago, Sarimanok said:

Our very expensive 3Di sails never look that tight...

so crank on some more halyard . :)

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9 minutes ago, Mid said:

so crank on some more halyard . :)

no kidding! The forces on those sails and lines must be tremendously impressive.

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21 minutes ago, Mid said:

so crank on some more halyard . :)

 

That's what we try to do, but I suppose that we shouldn't have spent the money on 3Di without halyard locks..

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7 minutes ago, AnotherSailor said:

no kidding! The forces on those sails and lines must be tremendously impressive.

Not necessarily.  The reason they go so fast is because both displacement and drag are so low so the forces will be relatively modest.

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34 minutes ago, Meat Wad said:

Fricking incredible almost no wetted surface.

extra sponsorship opportunities ...

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52 minutes ago, Meat Wad said:

Fricking incredible almost no wetted surface.

EcoDiNmWkAIcghb.jpg

17 minutes ago, Mid said:

extra sponsorship opportunities ...

Wait till the figure out how to have video screens laminated in the bottom. Then we'll really have yacht porn.

 

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I was looking at rigging my tack line on my adjustable sprit straight out vs parallel with the martingale. The sprit compression simplifies to Aspect Ratio plus one vs just the AR. For example, a sprit length twice the freeboard has an AR of 2:1, and the conventional straight out rig puts 3 (2+1) vs 2 times the luff tension on the sprit. 50% more force. Irrelevant if locked to the tip of course. 

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55 minutes ago, Meat Wad said:

 

Wait till the figure out how to have video screens laminated in the bottom. Then we'll really have yacht porn.

 

Won't be far away if they are sign writing the bottoms like Charal..! 

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6 hours ago, Miffy said:

Alex Thomson just needed to do 2,000 miles to qualify and the team decided it wasn’t in the best interest of their development program to beat up to Iceland and back down to Azores then back across the Biscay. 
 

He could do 2,000 miles solo in 5 days - get the boat cleaned then back out to gather more mode data with a full development team. 
 

this race has been amazing to follow - but I don’t think you can say with a straight face that the conditions help you learn much about sailing 80% of the VG. 

I totally agree, an amazing race, and thread to follow. I did not want to f#ck it up, so I just STFU (until now, sorry). I just want to thank y'all for the great commentary, speculations and most of all, staying focused on the race. Stay the course. 

Vendee Globe is gonna be awesome. Let's try to made the tread awesome too.

 

PS. I nominate Miffy to start that thread. Any seconds?

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3 hours ago, Laurent said:

My understanding is that because of COVID19, they are supposed to go back directly to their home port. Just like they came directly from their home port to the start line, without stopping in Les Sables D'Olonne for what would have been the race village...

I did not think that PRB home port was Les Sables, though... Maybe a technical problem? It is the home port of La Mie Câline of Arnaud Boissière.

Isn’t PRB close by? I recall driving past a PRB building with an IMOCA on the roof on the way into Les Sables.

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1 hour ago, Roleur said:

Isn’t PRB close by? I recall driving past a PRB building with an IMOCA on the roof on the way into Les Sables.

The company PRB (the main sponsor) is 20 km from Les Sables d'Olonne, you are right. I thought the boat base was either La Trinité or Lorient; but I must be wrong.

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3 hours ago, DickDastardly said:

Not necessarily.  The reason they go so fast is because both displacement and drag are so low so the forces will be relatively modest.

Also on halyards and sheets? 

Not being snotty, it is a serious question from my ignorant perspective on these machines

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21 minutes ago, AnotherSailor said:

Also on halyards and sheets? 

Not being snotty, it is a serious question from my ignorant perspective on these machines

All the halyards are on locks in the mast at their hoist points, most are running 2:1 or 3:1 tacklines with a jammer at the bow so the loaded line is pretty short. Sheets may go through a clutch  but that is because there are only 4 or 5 winches on the boat. 

 

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1 hour ago, AnotherSailor said:

Also on halyards and sheets? 

Not being snotty, it is a serious question from my ignorant perspective on these machines

 

1 hour ago, AnotherSailor said:

Also on halyards and sheets? 

Not being snotty, it is a serious question from my ignorant perspective on these machines

For any boat the loads on the sails and sheets (for a given sail type - solid wings are a different case) are more or less proportional to the force required to push it through the water.  Newton's second law of motion applies.  For a light boat with limited drag, the forces are relatively low as the boat doesn't need too much drive force to push it to high speeds.  Further, in IMOCAs the righting moment is effectively limited through the use of a one-design mast so that also limits forces.  The sail and sheet loads on a 12 metre, would be massively larger than on these boats - 46 foot waterline, 25 tonne displacement, never planes and 80% of the displacement is lead ballast so the righting moment is huge.

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1 hour ago, ctutmark said:

All the halyards are on locks in the mast at their hoist points, most are running 2:1 or 3:1 tacklines with a jammer at the bow so the loaded line is pretty short. Sheets may go through a clutch  but that is because there are only 4 or 5 winches on the boat. 

 

The locks and multiple purchases reduce compression on spars, stretch in ropes and loads on jammers in general at the cost of having a lot more rope to deal with but that is less of an issue when furlers are the norm and sail handling is limited as it is on these boats.

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Jérémie Beyou: “I put a lot of pressure on myself, it's a relief. I am someone who needs to sail a lot, to be on his boat, to be very competitive. Since the Jacques Vabre, between construction sites and confinement, I no longer had my bearings and I was under pressure. There, to do things right and to win, it's… pff…. I put my bags down a bit and I would no longer have this pressure the day before the Vendée. I know how to get there. And this is a great victory. The last edge before the finish was Champagne, there were 17-22 knots of wind, at 120-130 degrees of wind, under foils, flat sea, in front of the front from the Gallimard mark, and there, Charal was really great, he was sending wood.

It was hard because it was really intense. It is certain that each solo victory is worth it. But there, it is a new formatThere have been a lot of reversals with Charlie and Thomas. We raced together. We almost never left each other by sight. A blow to you and a blow to me. They also sailed super well. But it was as well to succeed the last little blow as it was necessary, that is to say the jibe that I initiated yesterday and that everyone followed. I wanted a lot.

A taste of the Vendée Globe?

I don't know, the Vendée Globe is very different. Yes, it takes commitment of course, but it's a very different pace from that. It may be that rhythm for a few days, but...What have I learned about myself? On confidence on the boat, and the maneuvers, and how to engage them. You can do the maneuvers, you are confident with the boat, when you get out of there, when it goes fast and it hits, you are not too scared. It was really to connect the Charal-Skipper pair again, because it had been a long time, and that all last year it was double. And that the solo… it's not double. It’s radically different. The Vendée Globe is fast approaching. And confidence in the boat, if you don't have it for the Vendée Globe, you can't achieve results. So it bodes well… 

 

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So ..., is there another short IMOCA race before the VG20? Or was that all the clues we get about the boat/skipper combinations?

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23 minutes ago, minca3 said:

So ..., is there another short IMOCA race before the VG20? Or was that all the clues we get about the boat/skipper combinations?

No that's it. 

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Arkea Paprec and L'Occitane will still have to complete 2000nm courses to qualify for the Vendee Globe. 

 > News in brief

Tripon returns to port, Seguin Abandons.

After showing well early in the Vendée Arctique Les Sables d'Olonne.race on his new Sam Manuard designed L’Occitaine, Armel Tripon has been forced to return to port after cracking appeared in his hull where it was previously damaged before the start when he hit an unidentified floating object. After discussions with Race Director Jacques Caraes, the solo racer from Nantes has chosen the safe option on this third day of the race, heading to safety where a full assessment and repair will be made. Tripon must now find a different solo passage to qualify himself and his new boat for the Vendee Globe.

Meantime Damien Seguin arrived back in Port-La-Forêt on his Groupe APICIL and retired from the Vendée-Arctique-Les Sables d'Olonne after suffering from a broken alternator mounting which meant he could not charge his electrical systems.

"Unfortunately the race was  bit shorter than I hoped for but there are always lessons to be learned from starting and racing alongside other boats and being able to calibrate together over a few miles. There are many positive things to be learned from it. The boat is fine. I felt good on board, ”explained Paralympic medallist Seguin..

 

Vendée Arctique Les Sables d'Olonne: Sébastien Simon Abandons

The Les Sables d'Olonne based skipper of Arkéa-Paprec confirmed his retirement from the Vendée Arctique Les Sables d'Olonne race this morning after breaking his starboard foil shortly after starting, 
Simon said,  "There is some damage to the hull, including a small amount of water coming in. To continue the race would lose us 15 days wasted. 
His abandonment delays his qualification for the Vendée Globe. Now he must complete an additional solo passage of 2000 miles in order to qualify himself and his new boat.

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Can someone explain the french saying "il envoyait du bois", the literal and the actual meaning, that it translated in terrafirma's post as "sending wood"?

Props to Joschke for returing at 16+ kts without a boom, regardless that she probably had ideal conditions for that stunt.

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Just now, Der_Dude said:

Props to Joschke for returing at 16+ kts without a boom, regardless that she probably had ideal conditions for that stunt.

The urge to qualify would have been strong regardless of the conditions, but agree they were excellent for such a jury rig.

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23 minutes ago, Der_Dude said:

Can someone explain the french saying "il envoyait du bois", the literal and the actual meaning, that it translated in terrafirma's post as "sending wood"?

 

It just means going full throttle.

The origin must be dating back to the times of steam machines: throwing more wood logs at the heater (or boiler) might have end up with a greater velocity.

edit: the expression founds its origin in Basque Country games when participants need to throw logs as far as possible....however the origine of “envoyer du steak” remains obscur.

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Interesting now the figures are available, to compare differences in real boat speeds (time/distance sailed) and speeds over the actual course (time over course length) for the first 4 home, 3 new boat and one 10 year old. Maybe we can learn something about the relative capabilities of the new designs versus the improved older ones? Difficult to find the best routing with these beasts which have to be so well set up to achieve their undoubted big potential speed advantages?

image.png.7265ca1837cc970bada39e3e9c931d33.png

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4 hours ago, Laurent said:

The company PRB (the main sponsor) is 20 km from Les Sables d'Olonne, you are right. I thought the boat base was either La Trinité or Lorient; but I must be wrong.

Based in Port-La-Foret (Vincent Riou management w. Arkea)

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1 hour ago, Der_Dude said:

@popov: thanks for the etymological insight.

+1,

I figured something must have got lost in the translation there.  Maybe a more accurate English idiom would be something like "it got really stoked up".

Kindof amusing to read though.  My first thought was "Dude... TMI"

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Nice Vid, so far non has said they hated the course.

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11 hours ago, Laurent said:

My understanding is that because of COVID19, they are supposed to go back directly to their home port. Just like they came directly from their home port to the start line, without stopping in Les Sables D'Olonne for what would have been the race village...

I did not think that PRB home port was Les Sables, though... Maybe a technical problem? It is the home port of La Mie Câline of Arnaud Boissière.

He says that he broke something at the back of the boat.

J’ai eu cette grosse casse à l’arrière du bateau mais à part ça et des bloqueurs

https://www.imoca.org/fr/news/news/les-mots-des-marins-du-2eme-au-5eme

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3 hours ago, cifrian said:

He says that he broke something at the back of the boat.

J’ai eu cette grosse casse à l’arrière du bateau mais à part ça et des bloqueurs

https://www.imoca.org/fr/news/news/les-mots-des-marins-du-2eme-au-5eme

If I remember correctly,  he said earlier that he had an issue on the main sail traveller base and its bonding to the bottom of the boat, and he had to make a repair, using cut-off spare carbon fiber battens.

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That was a great race but I didn’t expect weather so variable. What would be typical?   Or what were they expecting?

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18 hours ago, Laurent said:

It is the home port of La Mie Câline of Arnaud Boissière.

Is it really the home port of Boissière ?

Arnaud B is from Bordeaux, but indeed maybe now based in Les Sables.

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16 minutes ago, Kenny Dumas said:

That was a great race but I didn’t expect weather so variable. What would be typical?   Or what were they expecting?

It was quite impressive, indeed! Several sailors said that there are not used to North-South courses and that is the reason for so many crossed weather systems. Usually, crossing the Atlantic East to West,  you cross some low pressure systems,  but you usually try to get to the Trades Winds and then it is more stable weather for days at a time.  Crossing back West to East, you try to latch on a low pressure system going in the same direction and ride it as long as possible. Same in the Southern Ocean. Last time Joyon and his gang on the big trimaran IDEC literally crossed the Indian Ocean on one weather system...

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12 minutes ago, Laurent said:

Boissières is a bit of a mystery for me, he already completed 3 VGs (best rank 7 on his first one in 2009, then 8th and 10th), I think only Jean Le Cam also completed 3 ? And if he completes the next one that will be 4, a record to my knowledge.

Always on "average boats" but manages to finalize the budgets each time, a unique case!

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