Jules

Getting Tough With The Maskless

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6 hours ago, Hatin' life said:

The masks are useless, but if it makes people feel better, whatever.

Like I said, I haven't seen one proper mask in the wild.  If you wouldn't wear to do asbestos abatement, you're delusional to think it'd do anything against a virus.

The virus is not like a gas. It is a tiny particle suspended in liquid. When you cough, sneeze, or shout mists of fine droplets are thrown into the environment around you. If you were wearing a mask try spitting in it. Very little would go past a mask of any kind. 
In normal circumstances surgical  masks are worn to protect the patient 1st...healthcare workers 2nd. The mask definitely helps to protect other people from you. 
 

You are referring to inhaling virus around the perimeter of the mask. In that regard you are correct in some cases. The best coverage is and N95/P2 mask. Beyond them having a special fabric filter the real improvement is the tight seal around your face. 
 

That said any barrier is better than no barrier. Many of the tighter fitting masks surpass even surgical masks(not tight) in repeling the viral mist. 

If you don’t want to wear a mask. Simply don’t go near people who are wearing them. Sooner rather than later they will be required regardless of the US Fed Govt. 

Even now, in order to have a chance to get re-elected the Orange Guy is saying it’s patriotic to wear a mask. 

 


 

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4 hours ago, Ncik said:

And they won't seal with that beard...

20200805_175435.thumb.jpg.b5788f4afd66c0e8004917b13ef74bfb.jpg

Correct.  But I'm wearing a mask, and that's all that matters right?

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3 hours ago, CaptainAhab said:

The virus is not like a gas. It is a tiny particle suspended in liquid. When you cough, sneeze, or shout mists of fine droplets are thrown into the environment around you. If you were wearing a mask try spitting in it. Very little would go past a mask of any kind. 
In normal circumstances surgical  masks are worn to protect the patient 1st...healthcare workers 2nd. The mask definitely helps to protect other people from you. 
 

You are referring to inhaling virus around the perimeter of the mask. In that regard you are correct in some cases. The best coverage is and N95/P2 mask. Beyond them having a special fabric filter the real improvement is the tight seal around your face. 
 

That said any barrier is better than no barrier. Many of the tighter fitting masks surpass even surgical masks(not tight) in repeling the viral mist. 

If you don’t want to wear a mask. Simply don’t go near people who are wearing them. Sooner rather than later they will be required regardless of the US Fed Govt. 

Even now, in order to have a chance to get re-elected the Orange Guy is saying it’s patriotic to wear a mask. 

 


 

If you believed the rona were dangerous, the wording of this would be real different.

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On 8/3/2020 at 7:49 PM, Weyalan said:

My daughter is a hospital doctor, and was working 70 hours per week even before the latest Covid wave. A chunk of her colleagues are currently in isolation after being exposed to a Covid infected person (who lied about being Covid positive), so she is currently pulling extra shifts to cover for them on top of her 70... she is getting sores behind her ears from wearing masks so many hours per day. If she can do that, y'all can wear a fucking mask. 

^^^^ +++++1,000,000

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2 hours ago, Hatin' life said:

If you believed the rona were dangerous, the wording of this would be real different.

How so?
I believe it’s very dangerous. What makes you think I don’t?

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8 hours ago, CaptainAhab said:

The virus is not like a gas. It is a tiny particle suspended in liquid. When you cough, sneeze, or shout mists of fine droplets are thrown into the environment around you. If you were wearing a mask try spitting in it. Very little would go past a mask of any kind. 
In normal circumstances surgical  masks are worn to protect the patient 1st...healthcare workers 2nd. The mask definitely helps to protect other people from you. 
 

You are referring to inhaling virus around the perimeter of the mask. In that regard you are correct in some cases. The best coverage is and N95/P2 mask. Beyond them having a special fabric filter the real improvement is the tight seal around your face. 
 

That said any barrier is better than no barrier. Many of the tighter fitting masks surpass even surgical masks(not tight) in repeling the viral mist. 

If you don’t want to wear a mask. Simply don’t go near people who are wearing them. Sooner rather than later they will be required regardless of the US Fed Govt. 

Even now, in order to have a chance to get re-elected the Orange Guy is saying it’s patriotic to wear a mask. 

 


 

It would be more than nice if the unmasked would try to distance, but they simply don’t.  So the flip side, avoiding the unmasked, especially when they’re acting out can be almost impossible.  Seems to be part of the shtick, the unmasked not giving anyone any leeway- it looks like like a belligerent March of Destiny through a crowd.  There are unmasked down at the marinas who insist on walking right down the middle of the docks, and not waiting until the ramps are clear.  On our country road, where 90% are unmasked (“hey, we’re outside!”), few will cross to the other side of the street when they pass, we have to.  And then their remarks and looks start.  It’s weird.  If you’re out of site of anybody, and want to pull your mask down, that fine, as long as you pull it up and cover when you see someone.  I know you might touch the mask with your hand, but we try to use the sides.  We have a couple of runners who carry a mask or bandana In their hand and cover when they run past someone with it still in their hand, which looks a bit dicey, but maybe, if they haven’t touch anything, it works?  What about unmasked in a car with rolled down windows?  6’ gets impossible a lot of times, without jumping into a ditch, and even at 20mph, which no one does, doesn’t give a lot of time to move over.  COVID IS A PAIN IN THE ASS. :ph34r:

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3 hours ago, CaptainAhab said:

How so?
I believe it’s very dangerous. What makes you think I don’t?

I think your standards for preventative measures would be much higher.

What words would be used, above and beyond very dangerous, for something like Ebola?  Would you trust a paper mask and no eye protection with that?  I'd bet you'd say fuck that, and call in napalm.

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15 hours ago, CaptainAhab said:

That said any barrier is better than no barrier.

This is conditional on the general population not becoming complacent with all the other preventative measures...washing hands, social distancing, etc...

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8 hours ago, Hatin' life said:

I think your standards for preventative measures would be much higher.

What words would be used, above and beyond very dangerous, for something like Ebola?  Would you trust a paper mask and no eye protection with that?  I'd bet you'd say fuck that, and call in napalm.

Ebola is off the charts dangerous. 50% average mortality. Extremely contagious. The medical staff catch it at a very high rate even with the best ppe. 
 

If it got into a major city the unthinkable would be considered. Contagion the movie is scarily accurate. The final step of cauterise isn’t that crazy when you consider history. Fire bombing Tokyo, the nukes, London bombing, all of the other collateral deaths from war. 
 

“The masks are useless, but if it makes people feel better, whatever.“


They are effective. All of the standard protocols are effective. This thread is about masks not the rest. Go ahead don’t wear one. Eventually you will get it and pass it along until it kills someone. Good on ya. 

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40 minutes ago, CaptainAhab said:

Eventually you will get it and pass it along until it kills someone. Good on ya. 

 

 Well fuck.  Hopefully somebody kills me soon then.

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1 hour ago, CaptainAhab said:

If it got into a major city the unthinkable would be considered. Contagion the movie is scarily accurate. The final step of cauterise isn’t that crazy when you consider history.

Remember how bubonic plague was handled in Hawaii, 1899-1900?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinatown,_Honolulu

Quote

Great Honolulu Chinatown Fire of 1900

The bubonic plague was introduced into Honolulu on October 20, 1899 by an offloaded shipment of rice from the America Maru, which had also been carrying rats. At that time, Chinese immigration to Hawaii had resulted in crowded residences in Chinatown with poor living conditions and sewage disposal. Plague infected 11 people. The Board of Health responded by incinerating garbage, renovating the sewer system, putting Chinatown under quarantine, and most of all burning affected buildings. Forty-one fires were set in total, and on January 20, 1900 winds picked up one fire and spread it to other buildings. The fire burned out of control for seventeen days and scorched 38 acres (15 ha) of Honolulu. There were another 31 controlled burns after the incident. The 7,000 residents rendered homeless were housed in detention camps to maintain the quarantine until April 30. White residents who had gathered to watch the fire also helped escort the victims to refugee camps, using baseball bats and pick handles to ensure compliance. A total of 40 people died of the plague.

 

1 hour ago, CaptainAhab said:

All of the standard protocols are effective. This thread is about masks not the rest. Go ahead don’t wear one. Eventually you will get it and pass it along until it kills someone.

It would be fine with me if the covidiots were putting only their own lives at risk - we have Darwin Awards for self-destructive ignorance.  Unfortunately, their irresponsible and fucking clueless behavior will force society to take ever more intrusive measures to protect itself.  We enforce driving rules for our common safety and (reluctantly) will do the same for covidiots if that's what it takes.

San Mateo County approves fines for COVID-19 violations
https://www.smdailyjournal.com/news/local/san-mateo-county-approves-fines-for-covid-19-violations/article_823f892a-d6d1-11ea-9d8f-5fc299709a1b.html

Los Angeles Will Shut Off Water, Power To Those Caught Violating COVID-19 Orders
https://www.huffpost.com/entry/los-angeles-coronavirus-house-ordinance_n_5f2c4bc7c5b6b9cff7eee5df

Column: Getting tough with the maskless is the quickest way back to normal
https://www.chicagotribune.com/columns/eric-zorn/ct-column-masks-facial-coverings-coronavirus-bagel-zorn-20200623-nz3x4m7mirhvpdcrvrfnan4rmu-story.html

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1 hour ago, CaptainAhab said:

Ebola is off the charts dangerous. 50% average mortality. Extremely contagious. The medical staff catch it at a very high rate even with the best ppe. 
 

If it got into a major city the unthinkable would be considered. Contagion the movie is scarily accurate. The final step of cauterise isn’t that crazy when you consider history. Fire bombing Tokyo, the nukes, London bombing, all of the other collateral deaths from war. 
 

“The masks are useless, but if it makes people feel better, whatever.“


They are effective. All of the standard protocols are effective. This thread is about masks not the rest. Go ahead don’t wear one. Eventually you will get it and pass it along until it kills someone. Good on ya. 

Freedom to infect.......

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You guys all sound like a bunch of grumpy old men:
 

'Get off my lawn you whippersnapper!  Don't think for yourself, do as your told!  Ah, kids these days, wanting to go outside and live their lives, shame on them'

 

I'm traveling around Europe, again, maybe 10-15% of people wear masks.  Indoors in hot open air markets, it's less.
No one is exercising with a mask on, or silly enough to think that wearing a dirty mask on your face all day, for months on end, does any amount of good for anyone.

You guys sound like old men 'eat your peas youngster, they're good for you'  - totally oblivious to how the world and humans *actually* work.

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9 minutes ago, BlatantEcho said:

You guys all sound like a bunch of grumpy old men:
 

'Get off my lawn you whippersnapper!  Don't think for yourself, do as your told!  Ah, kids these days, wanting to go outside and live their lives, shame on them'

 

I'm traveling around Europe, again, maybe 10-15% of people wear masks.  Indoors in hot open air markets, it's less.
No one is exercising with a mask on, or silly enough to think that wearing a dirty mask on your face all day, for months on end, does any amount of good for anyone.

You guys sound like old men 'eat your peas youngster, they're good for you'  - totally oblivious to how the world and humans *actually* work.

 

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Mandatory mask requirements are popping up everywhere now that case numbers are going up in areas where society has opened up again.  It is an attempt to avoid going back into lockdown.  Those who refuse to wear a mask better STFU if we end up going back into lockdown, because they will be at least partly responsible.  Idiots.  If you won't wear a mask, at least put a tinfoil hat on so we know who you are.

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AU has resumed its fear of God approach to fining. Numerous people were fined $4k apiece for lying while trying to cross the Victorian borders into Queensland and NSW.
 

https://www.theage.com.au/national/victoria/police-hand-out-250-000-in-fines-in-24-hours-to-covid-19-rule-breakers-20200802-p55hqw.html


The chart is stunning. Going from almost nothing to something overnight. Obviously the numbers are nothing compared to the States. Many reasons why. One reason is they don’t hesitate to fine shit out of people. 
 

I remember one of the pub owners serving three of his friends during lockdown in SA. They fined him $2k and each friend $1k apiece. Victoria is now mask mandatory. The police will fine people $200. All of the fines are done on the spot by the Police no Judge. They always work in pairs with body cams. 

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‘Screw COVID’: 250,000 Bikers to Defy Common Sense for Nine Days at Sturgis Rally
https://www.thedailybeast.com/250000-bikers-to-defy-common-sense-and-screw-covid-for-nine-days-at-sturgis-motorcycle-rally

Quote

And, having come from seemingly everywhere with whatever virus they might happen to carry, they will all mingle [without masks] and return home with any virus they happen to pick up.
[...]
The ultimate justification offered by the mayor and other city officials was that the hordes of bikers were going to come anyway. They noted that Rod Woodruff, owner of the Buffalo Chip campground and concert venue, had announced his intention to be open for a 39th consecutive rally. The campground’s Facebook page had this posting with a message from a Hollywood actor:

“Hey there, Tom Berenger here. Have you heard? Well, my friend Rod Woodruff at the Buffalo Chip let me know that Sturgis 2020, the 80th anniversary, is ON! I don’t know about you, but I’m packin’ her up here. I hope to see ya out there. God bless America. And God bless the Buffalo Chip.”

The Buffalo Chip is the area’s biggest, a biker mecca. It is also just outside the city limits and an incorporated town unto itself. Sturgis could do nothing to regulate it.

“We’re just celebrating good old American freedom,” Woodruff told The Daily Beast on Wednesday.

FreeDumb!

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On 8/4/2020 at 5:27 AM, BlatantEcho said:

'We see no point in wearing a mask', Anders Tegnell  (Fortune, July 29)

(this country having a lower death rate than Spain, Italy or the UK, with cases rapidly declining close to zero with no lockdown too)
 

Netherlands on masks: 'there is no scientific evidence to prove they work'  (Dutch News, July 29)

Just to be clear what the article on masks in Holland said.

It did not say masks are not effective it said:

“Jaap van Dissel, chief epidemiologist with the public health institute RIVM told reporters that he did not think face masks would stop the rise in infection clusters. ‘Most new infections stem from family events, student parties and barbecues – places where face masks would not have an effect,’ he said.”

I think we can take it that masks would not have an affect at these places because people would not be wearing them.

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Georgia Students Suspended for Posting Photos of Packed School Hallways and Few Masks
https://www.thedailybeast.com/north-paulding-high-school-in-georgia-suspends-students-for-posting-photos-of-packed-hallways-and-few-masks

Quote

A Georgia high school suspended two students for documenting its packed reopening on social media. Hannah Watters, 15, received a five-day out-of-school suspension for posting a photo and a video of North Paulding High School’s packed hallways, according to BuzzFeed News. Few students appear to be wearing masks. A second student who wished to remain anonymous said they received a suspension as well. The school announced over the intercom that students found criticizing the reopening would be punished. Watters wrote alongside one photo, “Day two at North Paulding High School. It is just as bad. We were stopped because it was jammed. We are close enough to the point where I got pushed multiple go to second block. This is not ok. Not to mention the 10% mask rate.” The school district has not made wearing a mask mandatory. A teacher reportedly resigned over safety concerns with the reopening.

 

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3 minutes ago, ProaSailor said:

It’s a miracle we don’t produce more anarchists when children in their formative years see authority figures behaving so irrationally and harmfully.

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3 hours ago, KC375 said:

It’s a miracle we don’t produce more anarchists when children in their formative years see authority figures behaving so irrationally and harmfully.

Experiences I had in high school have caused me to question all authority figures.  I can't help but wonder if it is the same thing that causes people to push back against police who then escalate minor infractions into arrests and violence far out of proportion to the original infraction.

We had a principal who tried to shut down a petition I was promoting around the school that was trying to stop a ski resort expansion pushing for approval without an environmental review first.  Turned out the principal's brother was an executive on the board of the company doing the resort development.  YCMTSU.  Then there was the athletics director who tried to take student union money earmarked for the girl's basketball team and use it to buy new uniforms for the boys football team.  He tried to get me suspended.

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On 8/5/2020 at 8:04 PM, Ncik said:

And to clarify my position, I have absolutely no problem with medical professionals verbally blasting and ejecting anti-maskers from waiting rooms. I also have no problem with businesses refusing service to anti-maskers.

My staff and neighboring physicians enjoyed it so much , they are almost wishing another anti-masker would show up.

The word must have got out because everyone has been fully mask compliant ever since.

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3 hours ago, Rain Man said:

Experiences I had in high school have caused me to question all authority figures.  I can't help but wonder if it is the same thing that causes people to push back against police who then escalate minor infractions into arrests and violence far out of proportion to the original infraction.

We had a principal who tried to shut down a petition I was promoting around the school that was trying to stop a ski resort expansion pushing for approval without an environmental review first.  Turned out the principal's brother was an executive on the board of the company doing the resort development.  YCMTSU.  Then there was the athletics director who tried to take student union money earmarked for the girl's basketball team and use it to buy new uniforms for the boys football team.  He tried to get me suspended.

Huh......sounds all very mild to me. If you want real demagogue semi-crazed authority figures, then the nuns at a Catholic All-Girls school are clear winners in that department. Layer on top of that a couple of pedophile visiting priests and you have no trouble figuring out where the "Me Too" movement came from first! :)

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On 8/6/2020 at 2:19 AM, BlatantEcho said:

So you presumably have no problem with people who value freedom, not shopping at businesses that require masks./

Cuts both ways dude, even if you don't like it.

I require masks and I certainly welcome people who value freedom.

I find that people who value freedom, also respect mine. They wear clothes in my office and don't shit on the carpet. There might be some fruitcases out there who think that freedom should allow them to wander around naked and defecate where ever they like whenever they like without a mask on. Hopefully we have vans that can pick them up and take them back to their institution. I have a small firearm in case they get out of hand.

There are three reasons you cannot come into my place of business without a mask.

1. I truly do not wish anyone to risk the lives of my staff and my patients ....and I am concerned bout your life as well. After all, I spent 10 years at school and a long professional life learning to save your sorry ass, so please dont needlessly thorw it away.

2. It is against the law in my state.

3. If I allowed you not to wear a mask, I vacate any kind of insurance cover that I might have had. Any employee who gets sick is going to win that case and I wont have insurance.

So the obvious question is why are there any establishments which allow shopping without a mask?

To rephrase your post correctly :

Quote

So you presumably have no problem with people a lunatic fringe who value freedom, go mask-less not shopping at businesses that require masks./

  Yup....they might as well stay home, because a business owner desperate enough to allow the infectious fringe in her business almost certainly does not have anything worth buying.

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Florida man arrested for spitting at boy who refused to remove his mask

Quote

A Florida man was arrested after confronting a child wearing a mask at a restaurant and spitting in his face when the boy refused to take it off, police said.

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/florida-man-arrested-for-spitting-at-boy-who-refused-to-remove-his-mask-2020-08-06

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Traveling around Europe at the moment.  Mask compliance is *extremely* limited.

Maybe freedom is catching on in the rest of the world?

 

Hopefully once the boomers are moved out, there will be room made again for common sense, logic and facts.
The old people are sure putting up a helluva fight in this thread though:
 

Everyone should do what they are told, all the time, no matter what!

If the government says do it, you have to do it!!!!!!

If a doctor says do it, you should do it.

If a plumber says do it, you should do it.

If a guy on the internet says do it, do it.

If Geraldo says to do it, DO it!

If CNN says it, DO IT!

You know... sciENCE????


You guys don't get mask compliance, because, to a tee, you're all self righteous jerks about it.

Outside of America, people realize this.
We fought a world war to prevent your type of bullshit fascism where you tell everyone what to wear, what words to use, what to do, when they can leave their houses, where they can shop, when.
 

But, you all love this don't you? Everyone is surely wrong - except YOU.
You all are the source of true and light.  Facts, knowledge. 
The rest of us are just ignorant dips hits who need to be told what to do...
 

Yeah, no thanks.
The mob is not right here, just because it's loud and threatens others with violence.

That's now how the world works anymore.

 

You guys need to dial down the echo chambers in your hearing aids.  
 

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49 minutes ago, BlatantEcho said:

We fought a world war to prevent your type of bullshit fascism where you tell everyone what to wear, what words to use, what to do, when they can leave their houses, where they can shop, when.

Comparing having to wear a mask for half an hour while shopping to the mass murderer of millions of people.

You are literally insane.

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2 hours ago, BlatantEcho said:

Traveling around Europe at the moment.  Mask compliance is *extremely* limited.

snip ... delusioned ramblings ... snip

 

Living in Europe at the moment and your statement is just plain wrong. Mask compliance is surprisingly good where needed because people seem to understand why and where to put one on.

As for the rest of your post: You might try and put some sense into this incomprehesible word salad. Then again, don't.

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15 hours ago, EYESAILOR said:

I require masks and I certainly welcome people who value freedom.

I find that people who value freedom, also respect mine. They wear clothes in my office and don't shit on the carpet. There might be some fruitcases out there who think that freedom should allow them to wander around naked and defecate where ever they like whenever they like without a mask on. Hopefully we have vans that can pick them up and take them back to their institution. I have a small firearm in case they get out of hand.

There are three reasons you cannot come into my place of business without a mask.

1. I truly do not wish anyone to risk the lives of my staff and my patients ....and I am concerned bout your life as well. After all, I spent 10 years at school and a long professional life learning to save your sorry ass, so please dont needlessly thorw it away.

2. It is against the law in my state.

3. If I allowed you not to wear a mask, I vacate any kind of insurance cover that I might have had. Any employee who gets sick is going to win that case and I wont have insurance.

So the obvious question is why are there any establishments which allow shopping without a mask?

To rephrase your post correctly :

  Yup....they might as well stay home, because a business owner desperate enough to allow the infectious fringe in her business almost certainly does not have anything worth buying.

And for the opposite approach you have the Pauling School district in Georgia.

Where they won't inform staff who have been in contact with staff who self report c-19 infection. Where they have students they know to have been in contact with infected fellow team mates...

Where they don't maintain social distancing and make masks a personal choice...

Where they force staff and students to a enter an unsafe environment...

If I were in that chain of command I'd have to worry about the reaction of loved ones of people who die from C-19 caught in pauling school district...it is a state that has a high degree of respect for the second amendment.

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8 hours ago, KC375 said:

And for the opposite approach you have the Pauling School district in Georgia.

Where they won't inform staff who have been in contact with staff who self report c-19 infection. Where they have students they know to have been in contact with infected fellow team mates...

Where they don't maintain social distancing and make masks a personal choice...

Where they force staff and students to a enter an unsafe environment...

If I were in that chain of command I'd have to worry about the reaction of loved ones of people who die from C-19 caught in pauling school district...it is a state that has a high degree of respect for the second amendment.

I assume that school district is self-insured and they ran those decisions past their risk-management and legal folks?  Or do they just want to be out of the school teaching business by next year?

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44 minutes ago, Left Shift said:

I assume that school district is self-insured and they ran those decisions past their risk-management and legal folks?  Or do they just want to be out of the school teaching business by next year?

The suspension didn't last long:

Suspension Lifted For Teen Who Posted Photo Of Crowded Hall In Georgia School
https://www.huffpost.com/entry/georgia-high-school-student-suspension-lifted-tweet-crowded-hall-coronavirus-risk_n_5f2dcccdc5b6e96a22b2998e

Quote

The sophomore was suspended for violating school policy against taking photos of minors without permission. The suspension was lifted after her family filed a grievance with the school Thursday, she told HuffPost. 

The teen defended her action by citing a phrase from the late civil rights icon Rep. John Lewis, about getting into “good trouble.”

“My mom has always told me that she won’t get mad at us if we get in trouble as long as it’s ‘good trouble,’” she told The New York Times. “You’re bettering society and bettering the world, so those consequences don’t outweigh the end result.”

Brian Otott, superintendent of the Paulding County School District, complained in a statement after the photos drew widespread attention that the packed hallway scenes were being criticized “without context.” He conceded “such situations may happen” as students change classes and admitted it didn’t “look good.” 

 

 

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By the way, I read a different article about the Sturgis rally and this sentence caught my eye:

Quote

The rally is proceeding in large part to boost the South Dakota economy, as it normally generates several hundred millions of dollars in revenue

"several hundred millions of dollars"!!?  At first I thought "that can't be right" until I did the math: $300 million divided by 250,000 people is $1,200 per person.  Spread over nine days, that figure sounds entirely reasonable.  There are apparently far fewer vendors this year though.  Even Harley Davidson "corporate" has bailed on the event.

Harley Davidson travel ban prevents corporate employees from attending Sturgis Rally
https://biker-news.com/2020/08/06/harley-davidson-travel-ban-prevents-corporate-employees-from-attending-sturgis-rally.html

Quote

STURGIS, S.D. (KOTA) – COVID restrictions have changed many things and the amount of Sturgis Motorcycle rally vendors is one of those.

Just days before the official start of the rally, Sturgis has around 330 vendors. The Sturgis Rally and Events Director said that’s about one-third of what they normally have on an anniversary year.

On a good year, the Rally can have between 700 and 800 vendors, with everything from food to leather to motorcycle rentals. Vendors also range from small local run tents to large corporate ones.

A lot of the corporate, like Harley Davidson, have travel bans on for their corporate employees so they can’t be here, but they’re here in spirit and they do have signs and other things set up to remind people this is the Harley Davidson rally,” said Jerry Cole the Sturgis Rally and events director.

 

 

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4 hours ago, Left Shift said:

I assume that school district is self-insured and they ran those decisions past their risk-management and legal folks?  Or do they just want to be out of the school teaching business by next year?

I'd be surprised if they make it to thanksgiving...

As to consulting the right parties...hard to imagine, weird things happen.

One of Canada's leading universities with probably the top public health programme in the country planned its reopening approach without consulting the world leading experts on its own staff...the experts are predicting if the current plan is applied in September the school will be in lockdown by November

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On 8/6/2020 at 9:00 AM, Amati said:

It would be more than nice if the unmasked would try to distance, but they simply don’t.  So the flip side, avoiding the unmasked, especially when they’re acting out can be almost impossible.  Seems to be part of the shtick, the unmasked not giving anyone any leeway- it looks like like a belligerent March of Destiny through a crowd.  There are unmasked down at the marinas who insist on walking right down the middle of the docks, and not waiting until the ramps are clear.  On our country road, where 90% are unmasked (“hey, we’re outside!”), few will cross to the other side of the street when they pass, we have to.  And then their remarks and looks start.  It’s weird.  If you’re out of site of anybody, and want to pull your mask down, that fine, as long as you pull it up and cover when you see someone.  I know you might touch the mask with your hand, but we try to use the sides.  We have a couple of runners who carry a mask or bandana In their hand and cover when they run past someone with it still in their hand, which looks a bit dicey, but maybe, if they haven’t touch anything, it works?  What about unmasked in a car with rolled down windows?  6’ gets impossible a lot of times, without jumping into a ditch, and even at 20mph, which no one does, doesn’t give a lot of time to move over.  COVID IS A PAIN IN THE ASS. :ph34r:

are you indicating you would wear a mask while driving around alone (or with family) with the windows rolled down? Of course everyone has a different risk tolerance but this seems a bit extreme. My understanding is that you need not only exposure but also a duration of exposure long enough (like over 10-15 minutes minutes of very close direct contact) to get enough virus in your system to be infected. 

Biggest risk is things like parties, family gatherings, etc. Even grocery stores are extremely low risk since generally you're only in there for a fairly brief period (although it's a high risk environment for employees who spend hours inhaling low levels of the virus)

The idea that you might catch the virus passing by someone on the sidewalk outside or even from driving past someone is a bit much if you ask me (but what do I know)

With this said better safe than sorry especially if you're high risk and if I was older I might have a very different risk tolerance ( I wear a mask in situations like a grocery store but definitely not while driving around alone with the windows down)

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38 minutes ago, zenyatta said:

are you indicating you would wear a mask while driving around alone (or with family) with the windows rolled down? Of course everyone has a different risk tolerance but this seems a bit extreme. My understanding is that you need not only exposure but also a duration of exposure long enough (like over 10-15 minutes minutes of very close direct contact) to get enough virus in your system to be infected. 

Biggest risk is things like parties, family gatherings, etc. Even grocery stores are extremely low risk since generally you're only in there for a fairly brief period (although it's a high risk environment for employees who spend hours inhaling low levels of the virus)

The idea that you might catch the virus passing by someone on the sidewalk outside or even from driving past someone is a bit much if you ask me (but what do I know)

With this said better safe than sorry especially if you're high risk and if I was older I might have a very different risk tolerance ( I wear a mask in situations like a grocery store but definitely not while driving around alone with the windows down)

I do. 

Not so much for personal protection but: 1. To send a message that "We are all doing this" and 2.  Because it is a convenient way to not forget your mask when you head into your destination.  Several times I've been asked - very politely - to mask up by sales people when I've forgotten my mask in the car.  

We are all in this together and it has to be the new normal.  Like zipping up your fly and putting shoes on.  It's not about assessing localized risk, it's about setting a societal norm.

No shoes, No shirt, No mask, no service.  Easy.  Very fucking regrettable, but easy.

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I love all the virtue signaling above.

 

Do any of you find it concerning that the media you consume is lying to you?
Or, are you all ok with that?

I'm *in* Europe, now.  Traveling around for a while.
 

We went out on the square last night, packed with people, beautiful night. Just a rough guess is 5% masked, maybe 10%.

Outdoor markets?  1-5% in masks
Indoor markets - 5-10% in masks
Stores  - 40-50% masks
Outside in public, overall?  again, maybe 10%


No one cares.

People have lives to live, and they aren't going to stop them because of the most overhyped BS ever.


It seems the USA keyboard army are up in arms about this, but, normal people in the rest of the world just doesn't care.

 

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2 hours ago, zenyatta said:

are you indicating you would wear a mask while driving around alone (or with family) with the windows rolled down? Of course everyone has a different risk tolerance but this seems a bit extreme. My understanding is that you need not only exposure but also a duration of exposure long enough (like over 10-15 minutes minutes of very close direct contact) to get enough virus in your system to be infected. 

Biggest risk is things like parties, family gatherings, etc. Even grocery stores are extremely low risk since generally you're only in there for a fairly brief period (although it's a high risk environment for employees who spend hours inhaling low levels of the virus)

The idea that you might catch the virus passing by someone on the sidewalk outside or even from driving past someone is a bit much if you ask me (but what do I know)

With this said better safe than sorry especially if you're high risk and if I was older I might have a very different risk tolerance ( I wear a mask in situations like a grocery store but definitely not while driving around alone with the windows down)

6’ is 6’.  If you are a sailor, you understand airflow.  Where does your breath go when you’re in your car with a window open?  (any CFF modeling?  With a bluff body stationary  Say 3’ from a pickup truck?  Any wind tunnel testing?  Any real world testing?) Duration of exposure that leads to infection is an educated guess at this point.  We don’t Even know who is infected.  The only thing known for certain that works is no contact with infected people.  So, social distancing.  That’s it.  The rest is guesswork.  Welcome to the 1200’s.

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4 minutes ago, BlatantEcho said:

I love all the virtue signaling above.

 

Do any of you find it concerning that the media you consume is lying to you?
Or, are you all ok with that?

I'm *in* Europe, now.  Traveling around for a while.
 

We went out on the square last night, packed with people, beautiful night. Just a rough guess is 5% masked, maybe 10%.

Outdoor markets?  1-5% in masks
Indoor markets - 5-10% in masks
Stores  - 40-50% masks
Outside in public, overall?  again, maybe 10%


No one cares.

People have lives to live, and they aren't going to stop them because of the most overhyped BS ever.


It seems the USA keyboard army are up in arms about this, but, normal people in the rest of the world just doesn't care.

 

It’s not merely ‘virtue signaling’ if you act on it.  You are not.  I am.  I am because of medical advice.  If you don't care, you don’t care.  I respect that you don't care, and act accordingly.  Why try to change my mind?  Am I hurting you?  I’m thousands of miles away.

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3 hours ago, BlatantEcho said:

Do any of you find it concerning that the media you consume is lying to you?
Or, are you all ok with that?

Bullshit. Try something other than Qanon and Fox. Get educated.

 

3 hours ago, BlatantEcho said:

I'm *in* Europe, now.  Traveling around for a while.


We went out on the square last night, packed with people, beautiful night. Just a rough guess is 5% masked, maybe 10%.

So, following your own words, you are not only ignorant but do your best to become a travelling super spreader yourself.

Do us a favor, mask up and take the next plane home. And stay there.

 

Note, that I am not bashing US tourists per se, I am bashing one individual idiot because of his behaviour.

We have enough loonies over here as it is, no need to import some more.

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12 hours ago, zenyatta said:

are you indicating you would wear a mask while driving around alone (or with family) with the windows rolled down? Of course everyone has a different risk tolerance but this seems a bit extreme. My understanding is that you need not only exposure but also a duration of exposure long enough (like over 10-15 minutes minutes of very close direct contact) to get enough virus in your system to be infected. 

Biggest risk is things like parties, family gatherings, etc. Even grocery stores are extremely low risk since generally you're only in there for a fairly brief period (although it's a high risk environment for employees who spend hours inhaling low levels of the virus)

The idea that you might catch the virus passing by someone on the sidewalk outside or even from driving past someone is a bit much if you ask me (but what do I know)

With this said better safe than sorry especially if you're high risk and if I was older I might have a very different risk tolerance ( I wear a mask in situations like a grocery store but definitely not while driving around alone with the windows down)

If you’re interested, here is a Japanese study on COVID transmission in the air - microdroplets have to go somewhere when you’re driving with a window open

https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2020/04/coronavirus-microdroplets-talking-breathing-spread-covid-19/

 

 

 

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9 minutes ago, Amati said:

If you’re interested, here is a Japanese study on COVID transmission in the air - microdroplets have to go somewhere when you’re driving with a window open

https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2020/04/coronavirus-microdroplets-talking-breathing-spread-covid-19/

 

 

What worried me the other day I was walking the dog and we had to stand  on the verge of the single track road to let a car go past ( cars going in opposite directions need a layby to pass each other) .  I could clearly smell the woman passengers perfume, as the car went past, windows open at 30mph.

If I could smell the perfume... Could I get infected with corona 19? 

 

 

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21 minutes ago, Amati said:

If you’re interested, here is a Japanese study on COVID transmission in the air - microdroplets have to go somewhere when you’re driving with a window open

https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2020/04/coronavirus-microdroplets-talking-breathing-spread-covid-19/

 

 

 

I don't know if I would call that news.  I thought the aerosolization (which I assume is what the article means by micro-droplets) of the virus that had been well known and documented for quite some time.

The key isn't whether some of the virus has entered your body, but whether you have received an infectious dose.   Walking on the sidewalk, even if you inhaled some of the virus, it is highly unlikely you would become infected.  Talk with an infected individual in an unventilated room for a few minutes, then again it is highly unlikely you will become infected.  Talk with an infected individual in an unventilated room for a couple of hours, then it is highly likely you will become infected.

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42 minutes ago, The Q said:

What worried me the other day I was walking the dog and we had to stand  on the verge of the single track road to let a car go past ( cars going in opposite directions need a layby to pass each other) .  I could clearly smell the woman passengers perfume, as the car went past, windows open at 30mph.

If I could smell the perfume... Could I get infected with corona 19? 

 

 

Walking our dog seems to be the riskiest thing we do- and I totally agree with what you’re saying- for example how far away can you smell a cigar?

here’s another link- discusses quite a few academic studies, although the emoji style graphics aren’t too inspiring at first, it gets technical as it goes along- shoes would be worth spraying? :mellow:


 

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23 minutes ago, The Q said:

What worried me the other day I was walking the dog and we had to stand  on the verge of the single track road to let a car go past ( cars going in opposite directions need a layby to pass each other) .  I could clearly smell the woman passengers perfume, as the car went past, windows open at 30mph.

If I could smell the perfume... Could I get infected with corona 19? 

 

 

Just to clarify, the virus is a coronavirus, specifically SARS Cov-2.  COVID 19 is the disease or your bodies reaction to the virus, which is what makes you ill.

To answer your question, if the virus shed from your skin like perfume, then maybe, but the virus is shed from the respiratory system (and maybe the digestive system, but the term eat shit comes to mind).  I mean I don't see much if any correlation between breathing in something being emitted from the skin with something being emitted by an individuals respiratory system.

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6 minutes ago, 12 metre said:

I don't know if I would call that news.  I thought the aerosolization (which I assume is what the article means by micro-droplets) of the virus that had been well known and documented for quite some time.

The key isn't whether some of the virus has entered your body, but whether you have received an infectious dose.   Walking on the sidewalk, even if you inhaled some of the virus, it is highly unlikely you would become infected.  Talk with an infected individual in an unventilated room for a few minutes, then again it is highly unlikely you will become infected.  Talk with an infected individual in an unventilated room for a couple of hours, then it is highly likely you will become infected.

It’s not news, if you’ve been interested. .  It seems to be news to the willfully unmasked, so repetition seems necessary to get past the arrogance, condescension, and hostility.  

Have you seen anything more concrete than ‘likelihood of transmission?’  Say inferential statistical results based on controlled studies of viral load and resultant infection?  
 

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7 minutes ago, 12 metre said:

Just to clarify, the virus is a coronavirus, specifically SARS Cov-2.  COVID 19 is the disease or your bodies reaction to the virus, which is what makes you ill.

To answer your question, if the virus shed from your skin like perfume, then maybe, but the virus is shed from the respiratory system (and maybe the digestive system, but the term eat shit comes to mind).  I mean I don't see much if any correlation between breathing in something being emitted from the skin with something being emitted by an individuals respiratory system.

How does the smell of exhaled tobacco smoke, as a crude model, work for you?

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Except for the Trump supporters and high likelihood of concealed weapons - and the pandemic, of course - this might be fun.
As is, the country is likely to pay a high price for this gathering of 250,000 COVIDIOTS when they return home.

P.S.  On second thought, I've always considered Harley riders to be ignorant about motorcycles so this behavior in a pandemic is no surprise.  Not fun at all.

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20 minutes ago, Amati said:

How does the smell of exhaled tobacco smoke, as a crude model, work for you?

 I don't know.  I was replying to the post about perfume, not tobacco smoke, which comes from a completely different source.

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25 minutes ago, Amati said:

Have you seen anything more concrete than ‘likelihood of transmission?’  Say inferential statistical results based on controlled studies of viral load and resultant infection?  
 

No I have not.  And I'm not sure of the practical applications of such data/knowledge.  Perhaps there is...IDK.  I am not a medical professional.

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On 8/5/2020 at 5:46 PM, Hatin' life said:

The masks are useless, but if it makes people feel better, whatever.

I used to think that way, due to the mesh on an N95 mask not being fine enough to catch a particle as small as the coronavirus (and no, I'm not going to quote or provide a link to the sizes of both, although something like 0.3 and <0.1 microns respectively seems to spring to mind, but feel free to correct me on that).

However, I recently read an article on the topic which says: a) the coronavirus seldom if ever exists in isolation, it is invariably attached to something else, the cumulative size of which is sufficiently large  for an N95 to capture the virus, and b) N95 masks are actually more effective at capturing smaller particles due to electrostatic attraction (N95 masks have an electrostatic charge which is why it is important to have a clean mask) and Brownian motion. 

I don't know if this applies to regular cloth masks and such, but I kind of doubt it.

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36 minutes ago, 12 metre said:

I used to think that way, due to the mesh on an N95 mask not being fine enough to catch a particle as small as the coronavirus (and no, I'm not going to quote or provide a link to the sizes of both, although something like 0.3 and <0.1 microns respectively seems to spring to mind, but feel free to correct me on that).

However, I recently read an article on the topic which says: a) the coronavirus seldom if ever exists in isolation, it is invariably attached to something else, the cumulative size of which is sufficiently large  for an N95 to capture the virus, and b) N95 masks are actually more effective at capturing smaller particles due to electrostatic attraction (N95 masks have an electrostatic charge which is why it is important to have a clean mask) and Brownian motion. 

I don't know if this applies to regular cloth masks and such, but I kind of doubt it.

As I understand it one of the most important uses of a mask is to reduce spread by the infected. Catching droplets - rather than individual virus...and reducing the distance droplets travel. UCSF story updated 11 july gives good summary.

Interesting Duke Study reported by CNN and others shows that "neck fleece" is actually worse than no mask as it breaks up larger droplets into smaller ones more easily spread

 

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2 minutes ago, 12 metre said:

I used to think that way, due to the mesh on an N95 mask not being fine enough to catch a particle as small as the coronavirus (and no, I'm not going to quote or provide a link to the sizes of both).

However, I recently read an article on the topic which says: a) the coronavirus seldom if ever exists in isolation, it is invariably attached to something else, the cumulative size of which is sufficiently large to capture the virus, and b) N95 masks are actually more effective at capturing smaller particles due to electrostatic attraction (N95 masks have an electrostatic charge which is why it is important to have a clean mask) and Brownian motion.

That's assuming the small portion of people wearing a mask with the proper material are wearing one that is properly sealing.  Which I have yet to see.  So what most people are accepting as masks, are useless.

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1 hour ago, KC375 said:

As I understand it one of the most important uses of a mask is to reduce spread by the infected. Catching droplets - rather than individual virus...and reducing the distance droplets travel. UCSF story updated 11 july gives good summary.

Interesting Duke Study reported by CNN and others shows that "neck fleece" is actually worse than no mask as it breaks up larger droplets into smaller ones more easily spread

 

Beat me to it!  Good to know- but they only tested effectiveness as a mask, rather than as a respirator, which doesn’t grapple with willfully unmasked spreaders.  Kind of weird the Duke study didn’t mention the n95 as a respirator (maybe in passing?).  It’s maddening.  They assume everybody knows the difference?

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30 minutes ago, Amati said:

Beat me to it!  Good to know- but they only tested effectiveness as a mask, rather than as a respirator, which doesn’t grapple with willfully unmasked spreaders.  Kind of weird the Duke study didn’t mention the n95 as a respirator (maybe in passing?).  It’s maddening.  They assume everybody knows the difference?

I wear a mask to be responsible, but you kind of come across as a fear monger. I started laughing at your opinion when you started wondering if you were safe in your own car on a ferry. In all honesty, you should round up the family and hide in the basement for the next six months. 
 

As an essential worker, I’ve gone to work through this whole mess. Some of us just put our big boy pants on and get on with it. 

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46 minutes ago, Monkey said:

I wear a mask to be responsible, but you kind of come across as a fear monger. I started laughing at your opinion when you started wondering if you were safe in your own car on a ferry. In all honesty, you should round up the family and hide in the basement for the next six months. 
 

As an essential worker, I’ve gone to work through this whole mess. Some of us just put our big boy pants on and get on with it. 

I’m almost 70 and have asthma.  I’m finally retired, I’ve worked hard to manage my asthma, and keep my fitness.  I have a cool boat and I’d like to enjoy her.  I’m learning stuff as I go that might help others.  I know I’ve  been put in a position where I don’t have access to established tech that works since the very beginning of this, can’t get testing, and am basically last in line, so I’ve got to dyi (or figure which) stuff that does work, rather than stuff which doesn’t work, or makes things even worse, like bandanas and knitted masks respectively, among others, so I don’t put more strain on the medical system than it’s already under.  (Or maybe I’m just another Life Scout who took ‘be prepared’ too seriously?) That takes as much knowledge as I can find. Like do car filters protect against COVID, or just others? Is it better to be In a car at the stern of a ferry in one of the 2 lane side upper decks, or at the bow, first in line?  (Not like there is a choice, and COVID infection methods are not intuitive- look at the Chinese Bullet train study- I posted it elsewhere) Add to that a lot folks who refuse to do anything, and it is a clusterfuck. Im glad and impressed you are wearing a mask. What are you wearing these days?  Do you have access to what you need?  Any good insights into gently encouraging people to mask up and distance?  I’ve come close to death a few times, so my big boy pants are on for that, but do big boy pants mean taking risks that are avoidable, unless enjoying avoidable risk is acceptable big boy breakage for you?  I mean, it would be refreshing if more people who believe it would just say out loud that old folks and the weak have to go, instead of kind sniping around the edges of it.  

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2 hours ago, KC375 said:

As I understand it one of the most important uses of a mask is to reduce spread by the infected. Catching droplets - rather than individual virus...and reducing the distance droplets travel. UCSF story updated 11 july gives good summary.

Interesting Duke Study reported by CNN and others shows that "neck fleece" is actually worse than no mask as it breaks up larger droplets into smaller ones more easily spread

 

Again, that is something I thought was common knowledge.  I was simply responding to Hatin' life's comment that masks were useless - and the past debate elsewhere over the efficacy of N95 masks (respirators) in preventing the wearer from contracting COVID 19.  I just thought it was interesting how a mask (respirator) with a mesh size larger than the virus could stop the passing of the virus through the mesh.  Certainly health care workers should be equipped with a good supply of clean N95 masks to prevent them from becoming ill.

18 minutes ago, Monkey said:

I wear a mask to be responsible, but you kind of come across as a fear monger. I started laughing at your opinion when you started wondering if you were safe in your own car on a ferry. In all honesty, you should round up the family and hide in the basement for the next six months. 
 

As an essential worker, I’ve gone to work through this whole mess. Some of us just put our big boy pants on and get on with it. 

I kind of agree.  IMO you may get better compliance or "buy in" from those individuals obsessed with individual freedoms buy having less restrictions/conditions than more.  That is, focus more on a few individual actions that can have a significant impact on minimizing the spread of the virus.

Again, this may be old news, but here is an article I came across today: https://globalnews.ca/news/7257464/coronavirus-prevention-ineffective/

The overall gist of the article is that we have gone over the top in preventative measures that over the course of time have shown to have little impact on minimizing the spread of the virus.

The basic conclusion of the article seems to be that we should just practice social distancing outdoors and wear masks if you are indoors for any length of time in a crowd or talking face to face with an individual.

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23 minutes ago, Amati said:

I’m almost 70 and have asthma.  I’m finally retired, I’ve worked hard to manage my asthma, and keep my fitness.  I have a cool boat and I’d like to enjoy her.  I’m learning stuff as I go that might help others.  I know I’ve  been put in a position where I don’t have access to established tech that works since the very beginning of this, can’t get testing, and am basically last in line, so I’ve got to dyi (or figure which) stuff that does work, rather than stuff which doesn’t work, or makes things even worse, like bandanas and knitted masks respectively, among others, so I don’t put more strain on the medical system than it’s already under.  (Or maybe I’m just another Life Scout who took ‘be prepared’ too seriously?) That takes as much knowledge as I can find. Like do car filters protect against COVID, or just others? Is it better to be In a car at the stern of a ferry in one of the 2 lane side upper decks, or at the bow, first in line?  (Not like there is a choice, and COVID infection methods are not intuitive- look at the Chinese Bullet train study- I posted it elsewhere) Add to that a lot folks who refuse to do anything, and it is a clusterfuck. Im glad and impressed you are wearing a mask. What are you wearing these days?  Do you have access to what you need?  Any good insights into gently encouraging people to mask up and distance?  I’ve come close to death a few times, so my big boy pants are on for that, but do big boy pants mean taking risks that are avoidable, unless enjoying avoidable risk is acceptable big boy breakage for you?  I mean, it would be refreshing if more people who believe it would just say out loud that old folks and the weak have to go, instead of kind sniping around the edges of it.  

If your car’s cabin filter can’t protect you, than we’re all wasting our time with social distancing. I’ve got one of the smallest production vehicles on the planet, and it still doesn’t let me near other humans. 
 

Meanwhile, I’ll be going back to work tomorrow since it’s a Monday, despite the fact we’ve had lots of cases at work. Don’t forget to roll up your windows on the ferry. 

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17 minutes ago, 12 metre said:

Again, that is something I thought was common knowledge.  I was simply responding to Hatin' life's comment that masks were useless - and the past debate elsewhere over the efficacy of N95 masks (respirators) in preventing the wearer from contracting COVID 19.  I just thought it was interesting how a mask (respirator) with a mesh size larger than the virus could stop the passing of the virus through the mesh.  Certainly health care workers should be equipped with a good supply of clean N95 masks to prevent them from becoming ill.

I kind of agree.  IMO you may get better compliance or "buy in" from those individuals obsessed with individual freedoms buy having less restrictions/conditions than more.  That is, focus more on a few individual actions that can have a significant impact on minimizing the spread of the virus.

Again, this may be old news, but here is an article I came across today: https://globalnews.ca/news/7257464/coronavirus-prevention-ineffective/

The overall gist of the article is that we have gone over the top in preventative measures that over the course of time have shown to have little impact on minimizing the spread of the virus.

The basic conclusion of the article seems to be that we should just practice social distancing outdoors and wear masks if you are indoors for any length of time in a crowd or talking face to face with an individual.

I’m all for just putting on a mask until this is over. It’s just plain science. It’s the drama queens that crack me up. 

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6 minutes ago, Monkey said:

I’m all for just putting on a mask until this is over. It’s just plain science. It’s the drama queens that crack me up. 

So your still wearing a bandanna?

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1 minute ago, Amati said:

So your still wearing a bandanna?

No, I use a standard surgical mask when shopping. Prefer a gaiter at work when I have to wear the damned thing all day in 100+ degree heat. 

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On 8/8/2020 at 4:30 PM, BlatantEcho said:

Traveling around Europe at the moment.  Mask compliance is *extremely* limited.

Maybe freedom is catching on in the rest of the world?

 

Hopefully once the boomers are moved out, there will be room made again for common sense, logic and facts.
The old people are sure putting up a helluva fight in this thread though:
 

Everyone should do what they are told, all the time, no matter what!

If the government says do it, you have to do it!!!!!!

If a doctor says do it, you should do it.

If a plumber says do it, you should do it.

If a guy on the internet says do it, do it.

If Geraldo says to do it, DO it!

If CNN says it, DO IT!

You know... sciENCE????


You guys don't get mask compliance, because, to a tee, you're all self righteous jerks about it.

Outside of America, people realize this.
We fought a world war to prevent your type of bullshit fascism where you tell everyone what to wear, what words to use, what to do, when they can leave their houses, where they can shop, when.
 

But, you all love this don't you? Everyone is surely wrong - except YOU.
You all are the source of true and light.  Facts, knowledge. 
The rest of us are just ignorant dips hits who need to be told what to do...
 

Yeah, no thanks.
The mob is not right here, just because it's loud and threatens others with violence.

That's now how the world works anymore.

 

You guys need to dial down the echo chambers in your hearing aids.  
 

You need some perspective.

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18 hours ago, BlatantEcho said:

I love all the virtue signaling above.

I love this phrase, because the ppl who use it as a derogatory term are signalling there own virtues.

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No one is exercising with a mask on, or silly enough to think that wearing a dirty mask on your face all day, for months on end, does any amount of good for anyone.

I guess you can only afford one and never wash that would be the case.   Do you ever wash your underwear?   Dirty, dirty, sick in the head fuck.

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1 hour ago, Ncik said:

I love this phrase, because the ppl who use it as a derogatory term are signalling there own virtues.

Yeah, that not lying to yourself or false posturing, sure are despicable traits....

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7 hours ago, Ncik said:

I love this phrase, because the ppl who use it as a derogatory term are signalling there own virtues.

That's now how the english works... at all :wacko:

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7 hours ago, Ncik said:

You need some perspective.


I'm retired, out traveling the world, going from state to state and country to country.  Staying in hotels, taking taxis, renting cars, flying around.
I talk to locals, meeting people and wonder around the world from West Africa to the Middle East.

What, exactly, would help me gain additional perspective than actually traveling, meeting people, and talking to them?

 

More time on the internet arguing here with people who haven't left their houses in months?

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7 hours ago, Ncik said:

I love this phrase, because the ppl who use it as a derogatory term are signalling there own virtues.

Most people who use it cannot explain the term.

They are right wing parrots, repeating what their facebook feeds them.

I'm suspecting he is one of those.

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41 minutes ago, BlatantEcho said:

I'm retired, out traveling the world, going from state to state and country to country.  Staying in hotels, taking taxis, renting cars, flying around.
I talk to locals, meeting people and wonder around the world from West Africa to the Middle East.

Bit blatant version of ...

vyptkwPQTSJKx0C93VkPPHexN7WAkOZsGc0UOi5X

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19 hours ago, Hatin' life said:

That's assuming the small portion of people wearing a mask with the proper material are wearing one that is properly sealing.  Which I have yet to see.  So what most people are accepting as masks, are useless.

I think wikipedia article about surgical masks makes good points why they are useful: "Surgical masks are effective barriers for retaining large droplets released from the mouth and nose by the wearer in public. Surgical masks help reduce exposure of the wearer's saliva and respiratory secretions to others that could otherwise travel up to 26 feet. Surgical mask also remind wearers not to touch their mouth or nose, which could otherwise transfer viruses and bacteria after having touched a contaminated surface."

Imho anything is better than nothing to stop snot flying 26 feet and anything will keep your mitts away from your nose and mouth better than nothing. But I'm willing to hear why I might be wrong.

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People are treating putting something over their face as an absolute.  And it's not.  It's a virus, making that absolute claim valid, takes a lot of effort.  As in what technicians in virus labs do to keep from turning their insides to jello when working with nasty stuff.
Does the handkerchief face covering help?  Sure, kinda like putting 2lbs of pressure into a flat tire helps.

I've worn enough masks in dirty dusty environments to know that they can't stop dust, they aren't going to stop a virus.  If you want a mask that is close as you can get to a lab, get one of these without the exhale hole.  (and swap out for the cartridge filters) Even with the exhale hole, it's likely still better at stopping spray than even a surgical mask as it's valved, and pointing down.  Plus your eyes are covered.  The lab, they're breathing air from outside, and the suit is pressurized, so if there is a tear, the likely hood of something getting in is slim.
 

DC.thumb.jpg.3b090fe9f30a0d7fbcf9e650fb475217.jpg

 

I bought that mask because crawling inside the hell that is my dust collector to clean the filters, a regular 3M two band dust mask didn't do shit.  I'm no scientist, but I'm pretty sure dust I can see is larger than a virus I can not.  I wouldn't have even considered going in there with a surgical mask, and would've laughed at the bandana idea.  Granted, the saturation is pretty high on the dust, as I can't see the other wall sometimes and it's a whole five feet away, 1-1/2 meters for those countries :D.

 

Unless something changes drastically, I'm sticking with this being hyped up to keep you glued to media, to sell you shit.  Mix in a little division for the election cycle.  Google says right now says 732,000 deaths.  We're just over 2/3 of the way through the year.   732,000/(2/3)=1,098,000 deaths at the current pace.  That's 1.6% more deaths than projected for the year total, and a 5% reduction in overall population growth.  ~60M were supposed to die this year ~80M will be born this year.  There is almost 7.8B people on the planet.  Removing .014% is hardly worth the damage intentionally collapsing economies.  That doesn't even come close to shifting us into negative population growth.  It would have to be almost 20 times greater to cover the spread.  and yeah yeah yeah, "what if it were your wife, brother, favorite uncle, best friend".  Yep, that would suck for me.  I've lost loved ones before, and I will again.  That's life.

What is next year bringing?  Who knows.  Another million? Two million?  It's likely here to stay, and a vaccine might be right around the corner, or might not be possible.  I'm sure the drug companies are feverishly working for a pill to take that will not cure but prevent.  So let's just get on with our super cushy lives and not make things harder than they need to be.

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41 minutes ago, Hatin' life said:

People are treating putting something over their face as an absolute.  And it's not.  It's a virus, making that absolute claim valid, takes a lot of effort.  As in what technicians in virus labs do to keep from turning their insides to jello when working with nasty stuff.
Does the handkerchief face covering help?  Sure, kinda like putting 2lbs of pressure into a flat tire helps.

I've worn enough masks in dirty dusty environments to know that they can't stop dust, they aren't going to stop a virus.  If you want a mask that is close as you can get to a lab, get one of these without the exhale hole.  (and swap out for the cartridge filters) Even with the exhale hole, it's likely still better at stopping spray than even a surgical mask as it's valved, and pointing down.  Plus your eyes are covered.  The lab, they're breathing air from outside, and the suit is pressurized, so if there is a tear, the likely hood of something getting in is slim.
 

DC.thumb.jpg.3b090fe9f30a0d7fbcf9e650fb475217.jpg

 

I bought that mask because crawling inside the hell that is my dust collector to clean the filters, a regular 3M two band dust mask didn't do shit.  I'm no scientist, but I'm pretty sure dust I can see is larger than a virus I can not.  I wouldn't have even considered going in there with a surgical mask, and would've laughed at the bandana idea.  Granted, the saturation is pretty high on the dust, as I can't see the other wall sometimes and it's a whole five feet away, 1-1/2 meters for those countries :D.

 

Unless something changes drastically, I'm sticking with this being hyped up to keep you glued to media, to sell you shit.  Mix in a little division for the election cycle.  Google says right now says 732,000 deaths.  We're just over 2/3 of the way through the year.   732,000/(2/3)=1,098,000 deaths at the current pace.  That's 1.6% more deaths than projected for the year total, and a 5% reduction in overall population growth.  ~60M were supposed to die this year ~80M will be born this year.  There is almost 7.8B people on the planet.  Removing .014% is hardly worth the damage intentionally collapsing economies.  That doesn't even come close to shifting us into negative population growth.  It would have to be almost 20 times greater to cover the spread.  and yeah yeah yeah, "what if it were your wife, brother, favorite uncle, best friend".  Yep, that would suck for me.  I've lost loved ones before, and I will again.  That's life.

What is next year bringing?  Who knows.  Another million? Two million?  It's likely here to stay, and a vaccine might be right around the corner, or might not be possible.  I'm sure the drug companies are feverishly working for a pill to take that will not cure but prevent.  So let's just get on with our super cushy lives and not make things harder than they need to be.

***ding ding ding ding***

We have a winner!!!!

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40 minutes ago, Hatin' life said:

Unless something changes drastically, I'm sticking with this being hyped up to keep you glued to media, to sell you shit.

Mask you wear is for protecting other people from you and your snot, not to protect you from other peoples' snot. So the drastic change would have to be your viewpoint of why you should wear a mask.  

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41 minutes ago, Upp3 said:

Mask you wear is for protecting other people from you and your snot, not to protect you from other peoples' snot. So the drastic change would have to be your viewpoint of why you should wear a mask.  

 

You want to re-read and get back to me?

You want to explain to me how exposing yourself and others with an inadequate mask is protecting others?

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On 8/9/2020 at 8:39 AM, Amati said:

If you’re interested, here is a Japanese study on COVID transmission in the air - microdroplets have to go somewhere when you’re driving with a window open

https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2020/04/coronavirus-microdroplets-talking-breathing-spread-covid-19/

 

 

 

That would be the exact reason it is so frigging stupid to allow 250K Motocycle heads in there during a fucking pandemic..  Brilliant!!!!!

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11 hours ago, BlatantEcho said:


I'm retired, out traveling the world, going from state to state and country to country.  Staying in hotels, taking taxis, renting cars, flying around.
I talk to locals, meeting people and wonder around the world from West Africa to the Middle East.

What, exactly, would help me gain additional perspective than actually traveling, meeting people, and talking to them?

 

More time on the internet arguing here with people who haven't left their houses in months?

You are seriously deranged...  You will be dead by xmass and the virus will have spread because of you...  Hope you enjoy your retirement..  WOW...  Just WOW...  

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On 8/9/2020 at 11:37 AM, Amati said:

How does the smell of exhaled tobacco smoke, as a crude model, work for you?

How do you know it is exhaled.  They do still smolder when not inhaling/puffing on it. 

 

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America’s COVID Warning System
https://covidactnow.org/

covid_map.thumb.png.b66baeda324f89ca54548a5aba86108b.png

It's very interesting to compare counties within a state - Oahu is fucked while Kauai and the Big Island are OK.  Detailed numbers are shown for 3000+ counties.

covid_map_HI.png.b780f9e225e65ed1d10e6848e4f4df4c.pngcovid_map_FL.png.fd61e725faab31663658ff76cce89ccc.pngcovid_map_LA.png.2ff7e46c4b0747413d2c490086d704bf.pngcovid_map_CA.png.c675c50dd350df219af605167e80d10b.pngcovid_map_TX.png.3d4d84742d4880a2865b5ab1d0b97ecf.pngcovid_map_AZ.png.bd1950c8fb145868140a2fb8dbfb3368.png

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