Zonker

Is this what we have come to?

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I have no words for that thing on the top. Surely with that much boat length they could have done better.

image.thumb.png.15fbe214849e8d2aad368e9c2619a0f4.png

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Having been on this boat, the fly bridge is a great spot. The visibility is amazing, all the controls are lead there, and you don’t have to deal with anything going into the saloon. It’s definetly not an all out racer, but for the owner it’s the perfect setup. 

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Just another heavy power cat, with a rig stuck on top.  
Unfortunately the bareboat charter business is the biggest design driver for cats. 
Where are all the really excellent sailing cat designs hiding? 

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Yeah, from the pictures I am not a fan...
I understand the convenience of the upper deck but there are "half up" options under a hard dodger like the HH seem like a much cleaner option.

What troubles me about the design is the "back porch" going literally right up to the transom with nothing between it and the large glass back doors. This thing is just waiting to get pooped going over a bar or any steep following seas!

https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&url=https%3A%2F%2Fse.yachtworld.com%2Fbaatar%2F2020%2FMcConaghy-MC60-3158642%2F&psig=AOvVaw3gk2LAYPJY9bUBRbkaQ4RW&ust=1593365769935000&source=images&cd=vfe&ved=0CAIQjRxqFwoTCNDx0pnEouoCFQAAAAAdAAAAABAD

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That is just rancid.  Someone got paid to design it?  A professional designer?  Doing it for a living?  I just don't understand modern life.

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Isn't there an award for the ugliest design of the year? This would surely be a top runner.

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I know what I've been missing: the owner must have a double glazing/conservatory business?

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I wonder if you get altitude sickness up there?  
it’s not a bad looking boat if you cut the sniper tower off and lower the boom 10’!

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Just because it could be worse doesn't make it ok!
eaglewings-sunreef-supreme.jpg

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18 hours ago, JoeyG said:

but for the owner it’s the perfect setup.

Yeah because he doesn't have to see the boat if he's on the flying bridge.

It may be functional but it's FUGLY. 

They all are standing and have at least 2' above their heads. What would it look like with 2' less? Or recess it more so it's barely standing above the main cabin.

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21 hours ago, Zonker said:

I have no words for that thing on the top. Surely with that much boat length they could have done better.

image.thumb.png.15fbe214849e8d2aad368e9c2619a0f4.png

If they used forward controls inside, they would have better visibility, being able to see under the heady.

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That boat is an abomination. Convenience at all cost is so snowflake. You must make sacrifices for style. Go visit Falling Waters sometime. That will teach you everything you need to know.

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13 hours ago, Airwick said:

Just because it could be worse doesn't make it ok!
eaglewings-sunreef-supreme.jpg

I took a tour of that Sunreef in Cannes. They asked why I was taking a tour (ie buyer, broker, etc). I told them I just had to see a boat that ugly in person. It’s ugly for a mid-1950’s East German office building. 

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3 hours ago, soma said:

I took a tour of that Sunreef in Cannes. They asked why I was taking a tour (ie buyer, broker, etc). I told them I just had to see a boat that ugly in person. It’s ugly for a mid-1950’s East German office building. 

That is just f'n funny that right there.

Twenty minutes later and I'm still laughing out loud.

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No flybridge, don't need one.

ForwardVIew_s.jpg.8c07edbfad061a82e758128436e22eef.jpg

 

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Or This... 

1694245397_P1010389-Smaller.thumb.JPG.ef9a868c93def0dec52efe499c8d73a2.JPG(and you can still stick your head out if wanted)

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My non-sailing wife once announced "there can be nothing more embarrassing than a husband with an ugly boat"!

That boat's owner must be one embarrassing husband.

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Spare a thought for the covermaker that got asked to make the flybridge screens - it's going to be hard to feel much pride in that job...

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3 hours ago, NZK said:

Spare a thought for the covermaker that got asked to make the flybridge screens - it's going to be hard to feel much pride in that job...

Indeed quite funny that they managed to still add that amateurish after thought looking things, on top of that already high flybridge... 

And otherwise the hulls do not seem overblown on these mc cats, and the materials seems to be good, and epoxy right? 

But in the end they probably are more glorified week end sailers, charter with crew boats, than "travel boats". 

Same segment as hh catamarans in a way, and not the outremer one. 

(slyder catamarans, also made in China, seems to be targeting the "family cruising on a performance cat" though, and also ita catamaran is, but made in Italy, also the balance cat in SA) 

And by the way, in the context of "family or friends cruising on a perf cat", would really prefer the outre-mer (or forward cockpit) set up than these flybridges if something goes bad when under AP, and, "on the first floor", which would probably be 98% of the time, unless they add the still missing bimini on the mc cat :)

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50 minutes ago, yl75 said:

Indeed quite funny that they managed to still add that amateurish after thought looking things, on top of that already high flybridge... 

I had meant to say that nothing was ever going to look good on that flybridge - but it could definitely look better than this effort...

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my ideal was a 40ft beach cat scaled up no cabin

mini accommodation with at sea bunks in the hulls hard tramp with a tent popup cabin when at anchor only

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Didn’t see many complaints about the same thing on Rapido 50 renderings:

Rapido 50 perspective.jpg

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To be fair, there were complaints about the 1/2 flybridge thingy on the Rapido 50. But it is an order or two of magnitude smaller, and at least two orders of magnitude less ugly than Zonker's original posting. As for the three-story condo thing, there is no comparison.

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On 6/30/2020 at 2:44 PM, nota said:

my ideal was a 40ft beach cat scaled up no cabin

mini accommodation with at sea bunks in the hulls hard tramp with a tent popup cabin when at anchor only

So.  You'd have been a customer for the Reynolds 45?  (it's okay,  I thought about it too....)

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This was my design for a 44 catamaran 'Motorsailer' about 8 years ago. The flybridge was kept as minimal as I could but the hull and house kept getting higher and topheavy looking as the clients kept piling on shit. Junk on the trunk? There was junk everywhere! Damn mission creep...

gallery-indikonk4-15.jpg

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Eventually the thing got so tophampered (new word?) that the rig got ditched and it became a trawler cat and seemed a better match. Never went very far and I can't believe M&M still have it on their webpages.

1960877_765471780183129_7912722524435090184_o.jpg?_nc_cat=107&_nc_sid=9267fe&_nc_ohc=JRhYap4jKygAX8gd5OA&_nc_ht=scontent-ort2-1.xx&oh=63ca7445b60f3a1ba282450cb302b28f&oe=5F24712A

 

Sort of a 'Ben Hur' chariot for the FlyBridge on a split level arrangement from the main deck. Something that I was very familiar with from my days a Gold Coat. Makes a lot of sense in many ways.

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Rasper, 

That must have been a relief when it went from sail to power. It actually looks pretty good. I like the nice clean side deck. I think I've only sailed once on a large catamaran,  but I imagine myself wanting to sail with my butt either on the side deck immediately aft of the cabin/coach roof, or on some sort of seat in the same location.  The cabin sides would need to be shaped so I could see the jib, and there would need to be an unobstructed view to leeward through both port and starboard cabin windows. Then I would feel like I was actually sailing. Put a pair of wheels in the right place and get rid of the opaque surfaces in my line of sight to leeward, and I can see your design working for me. Plus, I would be happy to get rid of all the crap that makes life too complicated and the boat too heavy.

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A boat needs to be fast and easy to sail (all things being equal). I'm still laughing at Soma's comments. He's like 1000 million percent spot on.

 

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On 6/27/2020 at 6:59 PM, Zonker said:

I have no words for that thing on the top. Surely with that much boat length they could have done better.

image.thumb.png.15fbe214849e8d2aad368e9c2619a0f4.png

I feel ill

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Maybe they just misunderstood what the "end plate" effect is: someone needs to tell them it needs to be at the bottom end of the sail, not the aft end!

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Flybridge is a place to hang out, but it's up there. I would suggest that the layout there is fine for 8 guests and 3 packs of cold ones. In big seas and fast sailing conditions, I want the center of gravity lowered. I also want to get everything without being 20+ feet in the air and having that fulcrum work it's magic on me.

Atlantic 72P currently being built by Aquidneck Custom Composites. I'll start another thread, time permitting.

 

ForwardVIew.thumb.jpg.8ba548d2964170cda55f9635c8e26a9b.jpg

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I sailed the Pajot 66 several years ago: 

https://fyiyachts.com/yachts/2020-fountaine-pajot-66-alegria-67/

Upwind in choppy conditions we all hung out on the upper deck. Where the helm, power sail controls, wet bar, with bimini, and wrap around seating were. Surprise was that was also the center of motion. Very nice boat, had sailed across Atlantic the year prior.

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9 hours ago, jhc said:

Upwind in choppy conditions we all hung out on the upper deck. Where the helm, power sail controls, wet bar, with bimini, and wrap around seating were. Surprise was that was also the center of motion. Very nice boat, had sailed across Atlantic the year prior.

IMHO those "ancient"" times sailor were building/buying  seaworthiess+speed , while nowadays people are buying living area/volume  in sqf/cum  per inch of the boat length.

Approach has changed thanks to a well developed ""common sense": why to pay more for a less living and entertainment area. 

 

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Living testimony that money can’t by taste. 
Envy ? No, pity. 

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8 hours ago, steelmadesteamer said:

IMHO those "ancient"" times sailor were building/buying  seaworthiess+speed , while nowadays people are buying living area/volume  in sqf/cum  per inch of the boat length.

Approach has changed thanks to a well developed ""common sense": why to pay more for a less living and entertainment area. 

 

I've never sailed the Pajot 66 and I'm sure it's aptly seaworthy, but it simply won't sail as well as a Gunboat or a Chris White or an Outremer or a Marsaudon Composite boat. The other untold story is how much time is spent on maintenance. I've seen some serious volume boats, like the one that Soma posted, that are basically condo's that float. We'll have the main and staysail out, enjoying a nice reach in total silence and they will have a huge code zero of the sprit, running both engines, telling the guests that they're sailing!!! Had a sunreef 74 that actually sailed okay for being 120,000 lbs, but it simply could not get above 10knts of boat speed simply because of it's weight. It also did not go longer than 3 hours to run the Genset because of the power requirements. The Allegria 67 is approximately 80,000lbs lightship has a hot tub, and more luxury goodies than you need on a boat. I get on a boat to go enjoy nature and the water, not to have hot tub/sauna privilege's that I have at home. On Hekla I have 3 areas to hang out. Aft deck, salon, forward cockpit. I don't really need a flybridge although I will admit it is nice to sit up there at anchor. They all have an Genset because they need one to keep things powered. On our current and future boat we don't have shore power or a genset. Simply not needed. Just be smart with your solar install. 

If I'm dropping money on a boat, I wanna go damn fast and enjoy the sailing. I also don't want to be fixing 8 fridges, an icemaker, 4 aircon units and a genset. Is our boat luxurious, well it depends on the definition of luxury. The finish on a boat built at Aquidneck Custom will be different to the Allegria, but in my humble opinion, far superior, both in construction and in finish. It will still have limited aircon and there is no teak or whisper wall to cover things up. Everything is fared and painted. In 20 years the ACC boat will still be as strong as the day she comes outta the yard. Take into account that the A72 will come in around 44,000lbs all in and is 5 ft longer than the 67. She's also full carbon. 

My opinion of course, is that your cruising boat should be ready to sail within max 10 minutes of saying lets go. 2 minutes to get the main sail bag unzipped and lines ready, 4 minutes to check and warm up the engines and get the instruments on, and 2 minutes to get off anchor, kiss the wife and put down your glass of wine.

 

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10 minutes ago, mpenman said:

My opinion of course, is that your cruising boat should be ready to sail within max 10 minutes of saying lets go. 2 minutes to get the main sail bag unzipped and lines ready, 4 minutes to check and warm up the engines and get the instruments on, and 2 minutes to get off anchor, kiss the wife and put down your glass of wine.

 

With that schedule You still have at least 2 minutes to save in favor of more time pure sailing ! 

 

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15 hours ago, steelmadesteamer said:

IMHO those "ancient"" times sailor were building/buying  seaworthiess+speed , while nowadays people are buying living area/volume  in sqf/cum  per inch of the boat length.

Approach has changed thanks to a well developed ""common sense": why to pay more for a less living and entertainment area. 

 

 

As  Muhammed Ali   said in the 1960's ;       "It's different strokes for different folks" 

 

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14 hours ago, mpenman said:

. I also don't want to be fixing 8 fridges, an icemaker, 4 aircon units and a genset.

Surely 3 fridges, an a/c for the saloon and master stateroom and a small genset should suffice!

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So what did the owner want?

Is it about the destination or the journey?  That boat looks fine for a journey with great visibility and it is not intended to race anyone.  I love the Lagoon style vertical windows, very practical in the tropics where cats thrive.

I was on a big cat last year and we sailed through a school of tuna.  Fucking amazing, I could see the fish, not just splashes and birds working,  High observation points give a whole new perspective.

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8 hours ago, Zonker said:

Surely 3 fridges, an a/c for the saloon and master stateroom and a small genset should suffice!

Read my mind, except the Genset. 5.4KW array will take care of the energy requirements. 4 mastervolt 24/5500's will store the electrons.

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main we don't need no stinking main ...

 

actually a closer look at the pic show's a reef with no white caps to be seen so perhaps it doesn't needed a main

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9 hours ago, astro said:

Snip

I was on a big cat last year and we sailed through a school of tuna.  Fucking amazing, I could see the fish, not just splashes and birds working,  High observation points give a whole new perspective.

Makes sense, stand up paddle boards looked pretty damn silly to me, until I got on one and could see everything below the surface.

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Wow, being high up improves you view, who'd a thunk it...

Still doesn't cure ugly!

 

I've been told that once you do a condomaran charter you never go back to a mono. So, I'm never going on a condomaran charter!

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2 hours ago, Liquid said:

I've been told that once you do a condomaran charter you never go back to a mono. So, I'm never going on a condomaran charter!

Once you sail a high performance catamaran, you'll never charter a condomaran either :D

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