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Yikes!  Wondered what had happened to this guy from years ago.  Good for him!

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Living life to the max. Hope he goes well. 

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On 6/28/2020 at 11:56 AM, FixinGit said:

Living life to the max. Hope he goes well. 

Well actually, according to his manifesto, he's living life to the minimum :)

I'm afraid this experiment will not be any more successful than the previous exlex. I certainly hope I'm wrong.

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I love the strength in his beliefs and the perseverance to prove them, whatever it takes, in spite of the opposite industry trends and market direction.

 

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His task is to develop boats according to his own philosofy. He is not so much a sailor as he is a craftsman. He's spent way more time designing and building boats than sailing them in the last years.

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2 hours ago, Jpe61 said:

He's spent way more time designing and building boats than sailing them in the last years.

Not too surprising.  He is 80+ years old.

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He is a fit man, his condition or age hardly limit his ability to sail. It's a choice he's made, and I think he's happiest this way.

He has barely started his latest voyage, and he already has plans for a new boat.

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I've got really mixed feelings about this venture.  It's great that he's out there living the life he wants.  It's worrying that he's out there in a tiny home-built boat.  I admire his commitment to a small boat philosophy.  I doubt that his little boat is even remotely comfortable in a sea.

It was the best of plans.  It was the worst of plans.

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I'm fully certain he is happy in his little boat. I've read some of his stories of his earlier adventures, and he truly seems like a fellow who enjoys simplicity and practicality fullheartedly. Comfort does not rank very high on his list...

I'm also sure his boat is very safe. Not very fast by any means, but he obviously is in no hurry :)

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12 minutes ago, Jpe61 said:

I'm fully certain he is happy in his little boat. I've read some of his stories of his earlier adventures, and he truly seems like a fellow who enjoys simplicity and practicality fullheartedly. Comfort does not rank very high on his list...

I'm also sure his boat is very safe. Not very fast by any means, but he obviously is in no hurry :)

Does he have internet? Cause this sure seems like it could be his sock.

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Dunno.

It does seem that his journey is turning out to be of the same coreography as the previous one...

 

Screenshot_20200704-001118_Chrome.jpg

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The great thing about being a Yrvind fan is:

You don’t have to check the tracker very often 

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Yrvind's journey is not a very good testimony for the performance of his little boat... He's travelled a distance of about 300nm from his point of departure, this gives him the average speed of about 1kts. The average speed over the total distance travelled is about 2 kts, which is, well, downright lousy...

 

Screenshot_20200709-225346_Chrome.jpg

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At this rate, when does he get to New Zealand?

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He won't.

At this rate he'll get to Azores in about two months, by which time he has completed his plans for his next boat, and he returns to Sweden to build it.

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On 7/9/2020 at 10:15 PM, Icedtea said:

At this rate, when does he get to New Zealand?

Maybe if he throws us a message in a bottle, we will know in time...

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At first I just thought that was (just) funny, but actually yes, that is what he has turned himself into, with all his talk about sustainability and stuff :rolleyes:

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Pretty crazy to give up the ability to go to weather. Drifting around the northern islands in current would suck. The first job any sailboat has is sail to weather. Otherwise it’s a drift boat

But I’m still a fan. Go Yrvind!

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He appears to be heading north, taking the long way round.......respect!!!

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... meaning his avg speed from point of departure to current position is less than a knot. He truly seems to avoid getting anywhere...

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I'm getting a bit worried about our Swedish inventor. He has currently passed Faroe islands, and is still headed nort (for no obvious reason).

No reports for 11 days...

All in all, his journey resembles more drifting than navigating...

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Considering the weather for the next several days, I'm expecting a lap around Iceland.

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at least he has GPS and also he reads a book, one of 3000.

 

Cruising not racing :P how is the motion on sea, I wonder.

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According to forecast he's in for a hell of a ride on friday. No reading books I bet.

A narrow boat without a keel, like he's got, will be very uncomfortable...

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He should do more than a knot in 25-40kts... shame it's in the wrong direction.

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1 hour ago, Jpe61 said:

According to forecast he's in for a hell of a ride on friday. No reading books I bet.

A narrow boat without a keel, like he's got, will be very uncomfortable...

That's just the thing - I can understand a slow meandering cruise - even a minimalist one - if you can be at least a little bit comfortable.

But a boat both slow, and uncomfortable just starts to look like masochism to me. 

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Well, he is a real "character"so I would not ryle masochism out...

The situation as it stands now:

About 35kt winds, 6 to 9m waves, current at 90deg to waves. Not good (for a normal person) in a boat that size.

Yrvind will, of course, soon emerge with an update where he praises his boats capabilities...

Screenshot_20200717-130105_Chrome.jpg

Screenshot_20200717-130912_Chrome.jpg

Screenshot_20200717-130128_Chrome.jpg

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While we wait for news on Yrvind, I made a simple calculation usin Great Circle Mapper:

If Exlex minor had sufficient pointing ability and was thus able to maintain a modest 2 knot average speed over a GC -line (true track would of course see-saw across this, his trip to his current position would have take 8 days...

Great Circle Mapper - Alesund to Faroe

 

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At last an update on Yrvind.com:

"Yrvind lets us know that he feels good, he is in no hurry and he isn’t going anywhere. He just want to be out at the sea. And soon he is sailing warmer waters. He takes it as a stoic person, he says. He is also working on the next boat design and let us know he had make great progress with all new experiences he got so far. He greets and feel grateful for the interests people shows him."

I am happy know he is ok. It is however disapointing that he has now, obviously, somewhat failed in his designwork twice in a row. Sure, he says the boat feels safe and performs well, but he really needs to work on his weight and balance calculation skils. To rehearse that with two boats is hardly sustainable...

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He also states that his boats are designed to sail off the wind and that 90% of his sailing is downwind. So far he has been victim of his boat inability to sail close hauled several time and combined with the adverse currents and lack of wind, he has not be able to hold a trajectory. I suspect that sailing on the wind is going to be more than 10% of the journey and some ability to hold that course should be considered in the design. I think that the ability to point, besides performance, is a matter of security in modern times, allowing for example to avoid hurricanes, rather than trying to survive through them

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Yes. Designing a boat that has poor pointing ability is just stupid, unless you are the god, and can control the wind...

To Yrvinds benefit, is must be said that his boat did display acceptable pointing ability on test sails, but his inability to estimate / control cruise weight has led to a situation in which the boat is so badly overweight and off balance, it's barely sailable (as we can see from the track & speed).

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It seems Yrvind will have to kiss Sargasso sea good buy. He's limping on very slowly...

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As Yrvind has posted his latest report at yrvind.com, my prediction (post #18) is proving to be correct...

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5 hours ago, Jpe61 said:

As Yrvind has posted his latest report at yrvind.com, my prediction (post #18) is proving to be correct...

Now, that was a prediction :o

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Nice call J.
I guess he can jettison the stores if trapped on a lee shore   It makes for an interesting safety strategy. A built in safety margin due to overloading. 

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Just a wild thought here how about just buying one of the thousands of covid bargain yachts that are designed to,  well call me captain obvious, but cruise over oceans carrying food, water and whatnot?  

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Yep, after failing five times in a row at boat design, I kinda hope he gets the message and buys a proper boat...

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Well, if Sven is the posterboy for anarchism, I'll denounce it :D

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I respect the guy,  he is doing his thing, getting out there, he is cool, however I dont like the boat. He admits he cant make progress to windward, assume damaged board combined with very low aspect sails being the reason. His boat is also slow. I prefer Quenet Yann's microcruiser. His boat is also small, has also done long distance ocean sailing (Atlantic crossing) Quenet has taken a small boat concept and enclosed the cockpit and combined that with the cabin, in short a kind of cabin aft arrangement. The downside is that he has a fixed deep keel so he cannot beach, however overall his boat appears much more successful than Yvird's . In terms of the future of microcruisers I think variations on what Quenet has done appear the way to go forward. You can also see roger long and his boats Ming Ming I and Ming Ming II, in each boat he has taken the idea of boxing in the cockpit to some degree to make for more buoyancy, more storage space, and less area for heavy green water coming onboard and flooding for a shortwhile until the scuppers drain

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SDGR9LtRUBw

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=swWmNCBrKYU

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On 8/11/2020 at 9:22 AM, Jpe61 said:

Yep, after failing five times in a row at boat design, I kinda hope he gets the message and buys a proper boat...

You have to wonder about people who refuse to admit the obvious, his whole shtick is nuts. I mean you could also get a ferro boat, load it with cheese drift for a 1000 days quite successfully without having to prove a point. There is even an instructional video with technical details on how to do this.

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Getting smacked in the head with that aft boom is going to give him brain damage surely...

 

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On 8/10/2020 at 4:40 PM, toad said:

Just a wild thought here how about just buying one of the thousands of covid bargain yachts that are designed to,  well call me captain obvious, but cruise over oceans carrying food, water and whatnot?  

Because that would make way too much sense.

Perhaps I'm being unfair to Yrvind, but I suspect that not being like everybody else is part of how he sees himself.  All those sailors making quick passages, on yachts that go to windward are just following the crowd.  There's a Better Way!   And Yrvind is going to find that Better Way, even if he has to bob around the ocean for months in a glorified bathtub.

As I say, maybe that's not entirely fair.  If he's out there doing his thing, I can't really fault him.

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On his website Sven likes to portray himself as, well, an anarchis in lack of a better word. So I do agree, doing things differently is very important for him. I guess he hopes he hits a jackpot with his unorthodox designs, but so far the laws of physics and nature have not agreed with him...

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He is entitled to live his life as he chooses,  but at some point in his pursuit of 15 minutes he has to take some responsibility for influencing others.1217208577_Annotation2020-08-14072747.png.150502fcf3052010d274189125fbe0ef.png  

"begging" on the net is a popular pastime but it also opens you up to well deserved criticism, as a NZ'er do we really want some old guy to drift here as if its Narnia and take advantage of our society because said old guy is mad as fuck? Once hes in range he becomes our responsibility....

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51 minutes ago, toad said:

He is entitled to live his life as he chooses,  but at some point in his pursuit of 15 minutes he has to take some responsibility for influencing others.1217208577_Annotation2020-08-14072747.png.150502fcf3052010d274189125fbe0ef.png  

"begging" on the net is a popular pastime but it also opens you up to well deserved criticism, as a NZ'er do we really want some old guy to drift here as if its Narnia and take advantage of our society because said old guy is mad as fuck? Once hes in range he becomes our responsibility....

Do you really think he's going to make it to NZ?

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21 minutes ago, climenuts said:

Do you really think he's going to make it to NZ?

nah not a shit show, his thing is building and attempting, success would ruin everything

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On 8/14/2020 at 7:33 AM, toad said:

He is entitled to live his life as he chooses,  but at some point in his pursuit of 15 minutes he has to take some responsibility for influencing others.

No. He doesn't.  I think he is mad.  But what others choose to do has sweet fuck all to do with him.  What a ridiculous comment.

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On 8/13/2020 at 4:25 PM, climenuts said:

Do you really think he's going to make it to NZ?

Not on that boat. I just hope he makes it home.

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12 hours ago, JRC026 said:

No. He doesn't.  I think he is mad.  But what others choose to do has sweet fuck all to do with him.  What a ridiculous comment.

tell that to the bleach drinkers

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I have been thinking about this boat. Two parts, firstly boards, secondly hull shape. IMHO he would be better off with a pair of dagger boards amidships that cant outwards at ten degrees or so, and are located near the gunnel. Have the hatch in the center, and every day or so when changing tack lift up the board from one side and insert it into the slot on opposite side, something like the Lynx 14 mini yacht. Obviously carry a spare board in case one breaks or gets lost

Secondly hullshape. He deliberately keeps the hull sides for half the boat straight, If there was a constant curve that continued from the bow, that would give more beam, maybe an extra 20 or 24 inches. Extra beam would allow for more stability under sail, allowing for a mast that is say twice as high, giving much more forward force. His sail area in his existing boat is extremely low compared to hull side, thus a lot of drag and not much forward energy.

Some similar boats, that may have inspired him are Tilikum sailing canoe and also Liberdade by Joshua Slocum. Despite both boats being small and narrow they both had taller rigs. My point is that with a few small changes be could make his boat quite a bit better

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tilikum_(boat)

https://wavetrain.net/2012/03/14/joshua-slocums-liberdade-where-is-she-now/

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He's been out at sea for 40 days and isn't even south of Portugal yet. Thank God he has a plan to get to the Azores as he was certainly going no where fast and I think even he realized how dangerous the situation was becoming foundering around at sea in an unsuitable boat. 

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I invite you into the realm of darkness, https://www.yrvind.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/11/ex_lex_eng.pdf

"Annie Edson Taylor, a 63-year-old teacher, adhered to the idea, "If you want a safe boat, it should be small", already in 1901. She managed to sail down to the 54 meter tall Niagara Falls in a barrel. The happy outcome testifies to the intrinsic ability of the small boat to sustain great strain. When a 1.5 meter tall wooden barrel, with a diameter of 90 cm, in a model dating pre-1901, is able to protect a 63-year-old schoolmistress from the horrific forces of the Niagara Falls, which far outweigh the sea's worst hurricanes, there are no storms that a small boat built in modern sandwich composites cannot handle"

Capture.PNG.50848086237d29964cb385127924f59b.PNG

Hes as mad as a cut snake

 

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10 hours ago, peterAustralia said:

I have been thinking about this boat.

His goal can't possibly be to build a decent boat as any 18 year old with a book on yacht design could easily do a better job.

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7 hours ago, mathystuff said:

His goal can't possibly be to build a decent boat as any 18 year old with a book on yacht design could easily do a better job.

or buy a barrel

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At least he is actually out LIVING, experiencing it on his terms and natures.
The geezer has determination and its refreshing to see people do their thing. As long as it doesnt inadvertently endanger anyone else. I wish him all the luck in the world. 

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I assume you don't mean to say that the rest of us are not out there living, I mean it's not like we're here 247 just whatching him drift across the ocean;)

But true, he is persistently chasing his dream, 10 points for that.

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an old man furiously masterbating in barrel across the ocean, its living Jim but not as we know it.

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1 hour ago, toad said:

an old man furiously masterbating in barrel across the ocean, its living Jim but not as we know it.

Ewww... Dude, Yuck!

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Hahaha

 

 

 

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19 hours ago, toad said:

I invite you into the realm of darkness, https://www.yrvind.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/11/ex_lex_eng.pdf

"Annie Edson Taylor, a 63-year-old teacher, adhered to the idea, "If you want a safe boat, it should be small", already in 1901. She managed to sail down to the 54 meter tall Niagara Falls in a barrel. The happy outcome testifies to the intrinsic ability of the small boat to sustain great strain. When a 1.5 meter tall wooden barrel, with a diameter of 90 cm, in a model dating pre-1901, is able to protect a 63-year-old schoolmistress from the horrific forces of the Niagara Falls, which far outweigh the sea's worst hurricanes, there are no storms that a small boat built in modern sandwich composites cannot handle"

Capture.PNG.50848086237d29964cb385127924f59b.PNG

Oh my god, if there ever was a fallacy, this is the one...

Sven happily ignores the many failed attempts, but hell, he likes to pick cherries, so why not.

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In his Latest post Yrvind thanks sponsors for supporting his quest to develop sustainable boats.

Quote

Also very important. Thanks to you all for the many fine donations. I very much appreciate it. It makes this splendid voyage possible and the development of small sustainable boats.

Now, I'm a bit thrown off by the plural form, as he is yet to produce a sustainable boat. His latest designs have sailed from very little to not at all. I hope he gets the formula right next time, or he'll have even less credibility as a sustainable sailor...

I do understand that product development leads to misses before the hit, but the volume of the market yrvinds boat aims for, is, well, it is not. I don't know if he aims to creating a product of this line of Exlex protos, but he has written he wishes to show people how small boats can be good, so I guess he'd like to see more small boats (and less big boats).

 

 

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the worlds got plenty of anti establishment types who think Yrvind is a genius and may have a go, but his dreams of an ocean full of yellow barrels with flags for sails drifting to destinations unknown is sadly misguided. There are plenty of people with some talent who devote their lives to an angle, often feeling persecuted by the status quo (in this case cruising boats that work). 

 

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2 hours ago, Jpe61 said:

he has written he wishes to show people how small boats can be good

Small boats obviously can be good even on the open ocean, but they are going to need something resembling a decent hull form and rig.

If he had taken the materials he used and put them in a shape resembling a boat, he would be in NZ right now.

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2 hours ago, Jpe61 said:

In his Latest post Yrvind thanks sponsors for supporting his quest to develop sustainable boats.

Now, I'm a bit thrown off by the plural form, as he is yet to produce a sustainable boat. His latest designs have sailed from very little to not at all. I hope he gets the formula right next time, or he'll have even less credibility as a sustainable sailor...

I do understand that product development leads to misses before the hit, but the volume of the market yrvinds boat aims for, is, well, it is not. I don't know if he aims to creating a product of this line of Exlex protos, but he has written he wishes to show people how small boats can be good, so I guess he'd like to see more small boats (and less big boats).

 

 

Markets... hmph! 

Credibility... Bah!

A true whackjob seeks not these things.

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I call it internet begging, he's getting his 15 minutes and making the most of it. The people around him are the classic definition of enablers.

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Often these people have massive egos that fuel their self belief, the net has given them an audience and  then its a numbers game. Just like the Nigerian princes with their troves of gold bullion  to share, if you send out 20 million emails you're bound to find a sucker. 

Who thinks its a great idea to go cruising in a bathtub with a lid?  it doesn't take long to realise how hopelessly shortsighted, impractical and barking mad the idea is unless youre into breaking records. It has no future or possibility except to prove a point that has been made.

1_I0mS0qfo5C7nxHoj_jl0vw.jpg.00cd046468f49cf9c64b93a4bd3cbac3.jpg

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It's impractical to wear a hat with fruit on it as well. Yet catwalks are full of designers' extravaganza and hats with a meter high pile of fruit. 

These bath tabs or yellow barrels with flags as sail are not supposed to be a product gor the market. Rather a statement. Very much like the extravagant designer hat on a catwalk.

Yrvind built and modified boats way before the net existed. 

I'm genuinely sorry that his latest project was yet again a failure. Nevertheless, we are here discussing what he designed wrong and looking at the product of his mind. Not mine. And not anyone else's. Somehow his message is getting through.

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8 hours ago, VeloceSailing said:

...

Yrvind built and modified boats way before the net existed. 

...

Contrary to the latter, his earlier designs actually got somewhere. It all went downhill when he took the turn towards this ultraminimalizm.

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Ive been a bit harsh on Yrvind, he has done some yards (crazy yards but still deserving respect) We need the mad ones

Do not go gentle into that good night, Old age should burn and rave at close of day; Rage, rage against the dying of the light.

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Oh well, another update from Sven: After a long period...

He still thinks he's developing sustainable watercrafts, this time using the word "cruisers". Where exactly is the sustainability in his non-recyclable single(ish) use boats?

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3 hours ago, Jpe61 said:

Oh well, another update from Sven: After a long period...

He still thinks he's developing sustainable watercrafts, this time using the word "cruisers". Where exactly is the sustainability in his non-recyclable single(ish) use boats?

sustainable means using less resources to get from point a to b. you should know better since you mtbing

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On 8/24/2020 at 10:23 PM, toad said:

Ive been a bit harsh on Yrvind, he has done some yards (crazy yards but still deserving respect) We need the mad ones

Do not go gentle into that good night, Old age should burn and rave at close of day; Rage, rage against the dying of the light.


He did a lot of stuffs. Check "his boats" in the site. 

He even got chicks. 

 

But sailing around cape horn is the such achievement in my book. 

BRIS-ULLA-JANNIKE-1KPX-765587.jpg

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i dont think that super flat bottoms of hull is such good idea. At least put some form of keel or daggers, perhaps mini version of "folkboat". 

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20 minutes ago, troll99 said:

sustainable means using less resources to get from point a to b. you should know better since you mtbing

Yea I know. My mtb actually goes places in a manner expected of mtbs. Compared to my mtb Svens latest boats are a huge waste of resources. Yrvind ten never even left the workshop before it was cut up in pieces ;)

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19 minutes ago, Jpe61 said:

Yea I know. My mtb actually goes places in a manner expected of mtbs. Compared to my mtb Svens latest boats are a huge waste of resources. Yrvind ten never even left the workshop before it was cut up in pieces ;)

actually you could re-use pieces if you don't care about weight. It is fairly easier with a smaller size. It is what Sven meant re sustainability. 

100ft motor luxury yachts are worst ;) 

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43 minutes ago, troll99 said:

...
He even got chicks. 

...

Getting chicks is not an achievement. Even I get chicks.

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There's Cape Horn,  and the then there's  the Cape Horn rounding that earns your tattoo

 

.

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I totally get the allure of designing a small-ish boat, building it yourself, outfitting it yourself, and then climbing aboard and sailing a bluidy long way.

Like this guy.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SdP_b8y0QYY

I get it.  The thing is, the boat has to move in a forward direction when the wind blows, and Sven's boats don't seem to do that very well.
 

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On 8/28/2020 at 11:25 PM, Alan H said:

I get it.  The thing is, the boat has to move in a forward direction when the wind blows, and Sven's boats don't seem to do that very well.
 

I think Sven is an inventor first, and sailor second.  If all he wanted was to sail, he could have stuck with the boat he had 30 years ago.  Amfibie Bris (https://www.yrvind.com/videophoto/bris/amfibie-bris/) is, if I remember correctly, the boat that he let fore reach under small sail in a storm, with the bow board down and rudder up, and after six days found himself 50nm to windward.  Amfibie Bris was also the inspiration for the Sofiaboat (http://www.sofiaboat.se/nyasofia_eng.html); at least one of these has crossed the Atlantic. 

My impression is that there are three reasons why Sven's last few boats haven't achieved what he wanted:

1) He seems reluctant to try out one or a few ideas on a quick and dirty prototype.  At least once, he planned to do that, but then decided if he builds a boat, he will build it as strong and with as good materials as he can, and so he spends years building a boat.  In all that time, he has many new ideas, and so

2) He tries out many new ideas at once, and doesn't necessarily keep features that worked before.

3) His main design criterion seems to be that he wants the smallest boat that can safely run downwind in the southern oceans, and he is willing to give up windward ability for that.  I think that limits where the boat can safely go, and conflicts with the idea of a mountain bike of the oceans.  The Sofiaboat is closer to that.

 

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19 minutes ago, WetSnail said:

I think Sven is an inventor first, and sailor second.  If all he wanted was to sail, he could have stuck with the boat he had 30 years ago.  Amfibie Bris (https://www.yrvind.com/videophoto/bris/amfibie-bris/) is, if I remember correctly, the boat that he let fore reach under small sail in a storm, with the bow board down and rudder up, and after six days found himself 50nm to windward.  Amfibie Bris was also the inspiration for the Sofiaboat (http://www.sofiaboat.se/nyasofia_eng.html); at least one of these has crossed the Atlantic.

That video clip of him trailering Amfibie Bris behind what appears to be a unicycle of some sort might be the loopiest bit of Yrvind-ness yet. 

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Shackleton sailed from bumfuck nowhere to some other bumfuck place across the southern ocean in a big rowboat but I cant say its a good idea if there is an alternative.

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Yep... funny how older generations consider that kind of stupid admirabe, yet they roll their eyes at Jackass and alike. It's all about being the guy/gal who is willing to cross some imaginary line.

Sven's illusion of grandeur stems from the one trip sailing back and forth past some southern rock formation :P

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If I can talk technicalities for a second. Bris had a 1.6m beam and 3m high mast, Sophia had a 1.8m beam and 4m mast (and was a better boat), the latest Yrvind Boat is narrower than the original Bris and seems to sail poorly. The extra beam is useful, more sail area, more power, slightly more resistance. However in terms to stability you still have a decent dead-rise angle, meaning that the keel and the ballast down there provides more stability at very high heel angles. With a flat bottomed and keel-less boat the ballast is going to be close to the center of buoyancy in the event of a knockdown. Also Yrvind does not have appeared to have added any flare to the hull, which would be useful when heeled to give more stiffness

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The guy has an ideology and has so much invested in it that he cant see wood for trees. He is convinced that he is right and everyone else is wrong. Like all madmen there is a mixture of truth among the turds. Small boats are more manageable, yes its good to be self sufficient and eschew consumer culture but trying to convince people that drifting about alone in a smelly glorified barrel with handkerchief sails is a great idea is utter madness. The principle is flawed and achieves nothing good for anyone.

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On 8/31/2020 at 1:48 PM, toad said:

The guy has an ideology and has so much invested in it that he cant see wood for trees. He is convinced that he is right and everyone else is wrong. Like all madmen there is a mixture of truth among the turds. Small boats are more manageable, yes its good to be self sufficient and eschew consumer culture but trying to convince people that drifting about alone in a smelly glorified barrel with handkerchief sails is a great idea is utter madness. The principle is flawed and achieves nothing good for anyone.

The world might be a much better place if all the madmen confined themselves to barrels floating around in the ocean.

Cyber Diogenes (pun absolutely intended) 

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