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https://matangitonga.to/2020/07/04/american-yacht-sailing-tonga

I've not met this guy, I only became acquainted with him when someone shared a long, cringy, whingy, VLOG rant he made bemoaning the lack of freedom and Fox news when he was trapped in NZ against his will. He got so much blowback he deleted the video.

Other have met them, since it's not that big of a community. I am happy I am not one of them.

There was rumor a while back that he was trying to get some cruisers together to leave NZ without clearance to head north. No one listened, and he was roundly criticized.

But apparently he DID leave, though he did clear out legally and was warned he may not have anyplace to check into.

It seems mostly because he thought NZ winter would be too boring to video or something. He has a large social media following he needs to keep pleasing.

And Tonga wouldn't let him in. He's reportedly heading for Minerva Reef, where the Tongan navy has a ship stationed.

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There is a reason for the stereotype of the 'ugly American' and this guy is a prime example. Depending on what part of the world, similar stereotypes are reserved for Germans, Aussies...whichever minority of citizens are a bit loud and brash in someone else's backyard.  Most of the Americans I know are really good folks (and I know quite a few!). All this to say Happy Fourth of July to all you good uns. Stay safe and well and I hope next year is less complicated.

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The term you oughta used was ‘douchebag,’ not ‘dumbass.’ Unfortunately there are a lot (most?) of US’ians like the zataras, here and abroad. I can’t understand what happened to this country’s culture

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2 hours ago, Max Rockatansky said:

The term you oughta used was ‘douchebag,’ not ‘dumbass.’ Unfortunately there are a lot (most?) of US’ians like the zataras, here and abroad. I can’t understand what happened to this country’s culture

I don't know. I do my best to respect local laws, rules, culture and mores. I'm not sure why you'd want to travel if you want every country to be Just Like Texas. They aren't.

There was almost no place better in the world to get caught for the Pandemic than NZ,  yet they had nothing but complaints about it, it seems. The deleted video was amazingly precious.

I have a fairly simple rule of thumb: You're a guest. Don't be a twat.

It's a fairly simple rule.

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I watched some of their videos early on. They guy's a MAGA-type with a ranch in Montana and a prepper ethos. He bragged on one of their videos that he keeps a firearm stowed on the boat (their previous Bene) after which he caught a lot of shit in the comments about his disrespect for local laws. I have no doubt that he's got one on his cat. I'd love to see him boarded, searched, and thrown in a dark cell for a good long time.

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2 minutes ago, IStream said:

I watched some of their videos early on. They guy's a MAGA-type with a ranch in Montana and a prepper ethos. He bragged on one of their videos that he keeps a firearm stowed on the boat (their previous Bene) after which he caught a lot of shit in the comments about his disrespect for local laws. I have no doubt that he's got one on his cat. I'd love to see him boarded, searched, and thrown in a dark cell for a good long time.

I'm 99.9999% certain he's got a smuggled gun on his boat somewhere. I didn't watch many of his videos...didn't need to. But it was dripping all over one I did see a few minutes of on security. And privilege screams from all his rants, that he thinks everyone in the world is wrong for not being like America.

The funniest complaint from his 15 minute deleted whingefest was the lack of "balance" in the news in New Zealand. That there was no Fox News hear to "tell the other side" so all you got was one-sided news.

Someone needs to explain to him why Fox News pulled out of Europe...

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Grifting tossers. What percentage of the cruising fleet are like this? If my experience with trekkers in South Asian the early 90's was anything to go buy, it's more than you might guess?

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1 minute ago, Elegua said:

Grifting tossers. What percentage of the cruising fleet are like this? If my experience with trekkers in South Asian the early 90's was anything to go buy, it's more than you might guess?

It's tough to tell.

There seems to be a new generation of cruisers coming out of the Vlog generation. People with little clue about cruising or sailing, but who have been inspired by the likes of Delos and others to give it a go. And there are some that are inspired to pay for it all by VLogging and doing their whole experience on social media with an audience. Or at least they think they can pay for it that way, being video stars and getting ad revenue.

We've not met many of those. Most of the cruisers we hang out with tend to be more into the quiet and calm of it all, and aren't seeking to build audiences with controversy, misadventure, over-hyping, and exposed skin. I've blogged my travels, but mostly for my family and friends. It's different than trying to drive an audience of wannabes to come pay your bills.

That being said, you run into people everywhere who decide to skirt rules or laws because they think they don't apply to them. Even a couple of people we know and like and thought should have known better. We've seen people do things like sail to an island they didn't get permission to in the Galapagos because they wanted to see it, but didn't get the five-island autografo (because it's expensive and a pain in the ass). They got caught within hours and had to leave. We've seen people skip clearing in to some countries when they stop someplace, because they "aren't staying long." A woman in Opua got hammared for trying to smuggle in a bunch of food on the proscribed list; I hope it was worth the $10,000 fine.

The problem is these people make it harder for everyone else. So many people had "breakdowns" near the Galapagos that got them in without all the onerous paperwork that now f you have a legitimate breakdown they are ALL OVER you, making you prove you had a breakdown, kicking you out if you can't, etc. etc. We had friends who got dismasted on the way to French Polynesia and had to return to the Galapagos. They didn't have enough fuel to get to the mainland, and had all sorts of hassles getting  back in, getting fuel, etc. All because too many people pulled too much bullshit too many time.

One of the worst stories we heard was about a boat that didn't declare a firearm when they entered a country. They were boarded by thieves and they shot one. They had to leave the country in the middle of the night. I have no idea what ever happened to them.

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Looks like they are sailing a fairly large Privilege catamaran, not inexpensive.

But, I guess they could always head to American Samoa.

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8 minutes ago, Keith said:

Looks like they are sailing a fairly large Privilege catamaran, not inexpensive.

But, I guess they could always head to American Samoa.

That may be where they end up, though according to Noonsite...it may or may not work.

image.png.6c014f7297a56d4a8e968ec016440201.png

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9 minutes ago, B.J. Porter said:

It's tough to tell.

There seems to be a new generation of cruisers coming out of the Vlog generation. People with little clue about cruising or sailing, but who have been inspired by the likes of Delos and others to give it a go. And there are some that are inspired to pay for it all by VLogging and doing their whole experience on social media with an audience. Or at least they think they can pay for it that way, being video stars and getting ad revenue.

We've not met many of those. Most of the cruisers we hang out with tend to be more into the quiet and calm of it all, and aren't seeking to build audiences with controversy, misadventure, over-hyping, and exposed skin. I've blogged my travels, but mostly for my family and friends. It's different than trying to drive an audience of wannabes to come pay your bills.

That being said, you run into people everywhere who decide to skirt rules or laws because they think they don't apply to them. Even a couple of people we know and like and thought should have known better. We've seen people do things like sail to an island they didn't get permission to in the Galapagos because they wanted to see it, but didn't get the five-island autografo (because it's expensive and a pain in the ass). They got caught within hours and had to leave. We've seen people skip clearing in to some countries when they stop someplace, because they "aren't staying long." A woman in Opua got hammared for trying to smuggle in a bunch of food on the proscribed list; I hope it was worth the $10,000 fine.

The problem is these people make it harder for everyone else. So many people had "breakdowns" near the Galapagos that got them in without all the onerous paperwork that now f you have a legitimate breakdown they are ALL OVER you, making you prove you had a breakdown, kicking you out if you can't, etc. etc. We had friends who got dismasted on the way to French Polynesia and had to return to the Galapagos. They didn't have enough fuel to get to the mainland, and had all sorts of hassles getting  back in, getting fuel, etc. All because too many people pulled too much bullshit too many time.

One of the worst stories we heard was about a boat that didn't declare a firearm when they entered a country. They were boarded by thieves and they shot one. They had to leave the country in the middle of the night. I have no idea what ever happened to them.

Yes, these stories seem familiar.  Sometimes people are willing to behave in ways they'd never think of doing at home because they are overseas.  Once I had to leave a place very quickly because someone decided it was a good idea to use the town cistern (brought up the valley from the river by the women of the town) to clean their socks despite being warned not to. After that, for a period, anyone with white skin was fair game for a rock.   

You'd think the learning curve and cost of sailing might keep it to a dull roar, but I guess if representative of the population probably something near 3-40% are the Libertarian/Trumpist type and have no idea that say, the Far East isn't, and wasn't ever, some Clavell novel. 

What percentage of cruisers hang out almost exclusively with other cruisers? It's natural, but you can get these foreigner ghettos.

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6 minutes ago, Elegua said:

Yes, these stories seem familiar.  Sometimes people are willing to behave in ways they'd never think of doing at home because they are overseas.  Once I had to leave a place very quickly because someone decided it was a good idea to use the town cistern (brought up the valley from the river by the women of the town) to clean their socks despite being warned not to. After that, for a period, anyone with white skin was fair game for a rock.   

You'd think the learning curve and cost of sailing might keep it to a dull roar, but I guess if representative of the population probably something near 3-40% are the Libertarian/Trumpist type and have no idea that say, the Far East isn't, and wasn't ever, some Clavell novel. 

What percentage of cruisers hang out almost exclusively with other cruisers? It's natural, but you can get these foreigner ghettos.

It depends where you are, who you hang with. Cruisers tend to clump up when we're in the same area. Many areas there's a distance between locals and cruisers. Some are better at bridging that than others, and have formed many friendships with local people. It's not something my wife and I have ever been great at, but we sucked at that at home in the U.S., too.

I've met very few right wing libertarian/Trumpists out cruising. Trump is almost universally despised by most American cruisers we've met, and he has even less respect among the foreign cruisers. Many of them simply can't get their heads around the stupid shit we Americans are conditioned to put up with, like college and healthcare costs and how they work in the states. Trump is even more puzzling to them.

But there are a couple. Not many, but there is the occasional Zatara, or others that are escaping what they think of as the strictures of U.S. life, but they don't consider than what they value as "Freedom" (e.g. owning guns and so forth) is remotely related what the rest of the world sees as "Freedom" (not dying from preventable diseases or going bankrupt because you got sick). They think they should be...I don't know what, in some sort of Libertarian paradise once they've slipped the bondage of Nancy Pelosi and her health-care happy fascists, but they never seem to make it all the way to the true Libertarian paradise of Somalia.

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Something of this type happened in Australia way back around 2006.  Two Americans named Manzari arrived in Australia on their yacht without any of the required advance notice.  In those days you had to either send a fax or make a phone call to Australian customs from your last port of departure which was usually Noumea or Port Vila.  There wasn't much use of email in them thar days.  They only had a VHF radio and not a HF radio.  Because they arrived without notice other than a call on the VHF they were fined but refused to pay.  The case went to court and then to appeal and they lost both times.  What might have been a $2000 fine turned into a total loss of around $50,000.

There are times in everyone's life when the smartest thing to do is swallow your pride, shut your mouth, kneel down and start kissing ass.

Judges all over the world tend to speak with a bland nonspeak type of language.  The Manzaris must have really pissed the judge off with their " you can't do that to me, I'm an American " type of arrogance.  The judge abandoned his nonspeak, described their argument as " claptrap " and then said " The process of reasoning of the appellant which he gave in evidence was that he believed it would be acceptable to notify impending arrival to the the volunteer body, which he did by radio, albeit a short time before docking in Bundaberg.  The time limit he thought did not apply to him because, I gather, the authorities ought to know that he had only a short range radio on such a yacht.

It is not surprising that the magistrate rejected that claptrap and cast aspersions on the appellant's credibility.  Aside from whether the appellant was misled as to the period of notice, it is plain he did not notify customs at all.  The appellant seemed . . . . . to want to arrogate to himself the right to make his own rules up to suit himself. "

Cop that !

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Ugly Americans, BJ appears a distinguished exception.

If they don’t like NZ there is little hope perhaps an enforced layover of say six months at Minerva would help them gain some perspective.

A cold Faux Turkey should be required when cruising and wankers that believe Fox should be a question on the entry forms- a quick way to sort out the dicks.

Life is too short for dicks......

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Watched Zatara once, quit half way through, they seemed to be trying to export their entitled, self obsessed, consumerist meme wherever they went.

They also joined the queue of folks pimping their families, and in particular their children, on YouTube.

There is eventually going to be a new form of child abuse, selling out your children’s anonymity online.

With any luck they will be bounced all over the Pacific for months, as they find their way back to Hawaii....

 

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Zatara getting similar reviews in the other place

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In 1918 Spanish Flu killed around 8000 Samoans and 2000 Tongans.

it was brought to the islands by a boat from NZ

these guys have long memories, and play rugby...

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Meanwhile on the other side of the world.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/5-americans-who-flew-by-private-jet-to-italy-were-reportedly-denied-entry-due-to-the-eu-ban-on-visitors-from-countries-with-high-coronavirus-infection-rates/ar-BB16kq4M?li=BBnbklE

Five Americans who attempted to enter Italy after flying on a private jet to the island of Sardinia were rejected because of the EU's coronavirus restrictions.

Some people think that it just does not apply to them.  I can remember back in the mid 1980's standing in line at a exchange in Paris.  The very loudly dressed and voiced American woman in front of me yelling "What do you mean you don't speak English"

Zatara translates to Raft.  hmmmm.  This will be interesting especially if the Tonga Navy finds a weapon.  Thats like poking a bear with your children standing there.  Some people!

 

 

 

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Some gems from the CF thread:

 Bills don’t pay themselves, adventures don’t happen hiding at home.”

“. What's next? Oh it's too expensive to 
rescue these yachties that go sailing across oceans so better they don't go at all. ” 

There we have it. We can leave now because we have a right to earn a living in a foreign country as well to an adventure. And never mind the prep, we’re owed a rescue too. 

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12 hours ago, Keith said:

Looks like they are sailing a fairly large Privilege catamaran,

Seems appropriate.

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2 hours ago, Dogscout said:

I can remember back in the mid 1980's standing in line at a exchange in Paris.  The very loudly dressed and voiced American woman in front of me yelling "What do you mean you don't speak English"

Same kind of person who asks how much something is "in real money".

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People like this don't really give US cruisers a bad name.  They are plenty wealthy and get to pay all the fines etc. that their stupidity generates.  It's the unprepared save me now shitshows that are a problem.

These guys go to the extreme point of arrogance to put everything anyone needs to arrest fine etc online ahead of time.  That's free money for the authorities.

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Douchebags without borders.....  I've come to the conclusion it's the personality, not the country that's the problem.  We're currently sitting at anchor for a two week quarantine in Grenada....others in the quarantine anchorage take excursions to the beach.  Prior we spent 4 months in Bequia where we witnessed all manner of douchebaggery with vessels refusing to quarantine,  skipping out on quarantine, not checking in, etc.  Then it's reading Facebook posts on local cruising pages.....  Canadian, US, French, German, it's doesn't matter and there is no limit to the shit they try to get away with.

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37 minutes ago, Huggy Bear Brown said:

Douchebags without borders.....  I've come to the conclusion it's the personality, not the country that's the problem.  We're currently sitting at anchor for a two week quarantine in Grenada....others in the quarantine anchorage take excursions to the beach.  Prior we spent 4 months in Bequia where we witnessed all manner of douchebaggery

Sounds like one or more of:

- Narcissistic Personality Disorder
- Histrionic Personality Disorder
- Antisocial Personality Disorder
- Borderline Personality Disorder

Once you find out about em, they're very predictable.. It's a fun game to play armchair psychologist! Upshot is, they are irredeemable douchebags and are the reason "we can't have nice things". oh well!

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2 hours ago, robtoujours said:

Sounds like one or more of:

- Narcissistic Personality Disorder
- Histrionic Personality Disorder
- Antisocial Personality Disorder
- Borderline Personality Disorder

Once you find out about em, they're very predictable.. It's a fun game to play armchair psychologist! Upshot is, they are irredeemable douchebags and are the reason "we can't have nice things". oh well!

Bingo!  You nailed it....

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3 hours ago, Huggy Bear Brown said:

Douchebags without borders.....  

That definitely got a chuckle outta me...

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4 hours ago, SASSAFRASS said:

People like this don't really give US cruisers a bad name.  They are plenty wealthy and get to pay all the fines etc. that their stupidity generates.  It's the unprepared save me now shitshows that are a problem.

These guys go to the extreme point of arrogance to put everything anyone needs to arrest fine etc online ahead of time.  That's free money for the authorities.

I get the impression that the Zataras are leading a lot of their lives to get website hits. I do not know their finances, and I was lucky enough to have missed meeting them before they left NZ so I don't know them personally.

But I'm not sold they're plenty wealthy, unless the swag sales, e-begging, and sponsor plugs are all for their egos. If you go to their home page, you have to scroll past the swag shop and "Buy a Ticket" link before you get to the older videos.

It feels like they're trying to pay for their cruising with it, if they're so concerned about there "not being enough interesting things to video" in New Zealand they will sail out without a safe destination secured. He even has a video about how to make money while cruising so you can go cruising; I didn't watch the whole thing, but it seems to be about paying for it with Vlogging a what they are doing.

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Buy my book and I will show you how to get rich.  It never stops working.  If anyone is interested let me know and I will get right on that book writing thing.

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BJ, family of five cruising on a big cat with enough money to have connectivity and just cruise equals wealthy to most of the known world except maybe Dubai.

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The Tongan navy have let them in to Minerva.  They plan to leave there on Thursday 7/9.

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2 hours ago, SASSAFRASS said:

BJ, family of five cruising on a big cat with enough money to have connectivity and just cruise equals wealthy to most of the known world except maybe Dubai.

Of course, relative to people in much of the world. I've been cruising since 2012, I have a fairly good concept of this.

But that doesn't mean they are independently wealthy with unlimited money, either. They're clearly trying self-fund some of their cruising with all the attention gathering and video stuff.

Big fines add up, and I doubt they could afford to have their boat confiscated, and would be very unhappy collecting five figure fines.

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27 minutes ago, B.J. Porter said:

Of course, relative to people in much of the world. I've been cruising since 2012, I have a fairly good concept of this.

But that doesn't mean they are independently wealthy with unlimited money, either. They're clearly trying self-fund some of their cruising with all the attention gathering and video stuff.

Big fines add up, and I doubt they could afford to have their boat confiscated, and would be very unhappy collecting five figure fines.

100% agree, it makes it all the more irresponsible that they will soon be posting some diatribe about how the super mean athorities of "insert country" are being so mean to poor American cruisers.  They had no reason to leave and are asking for some confrontation.  When It happens unfortunately some idiots will probably crowd source them out of it.  So is the current lunacy we live in.  I still think they just fall into the dipshit catagory not nessesarilly the making Americans look bad one.

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14 minutes ago, SASSAFRASS said:

100% agree, it makes it all the more irresponsible that they will soon be posting some diatribe about how the super mean athorities of "insert country" are being so mean to poor American cruisers.  They had no reason to leave and are asking for some confrontation.  When It happens unfortunately some idiots will probably crowd source them out of it.  So is the current lunacy we live in.  I still think they just fall into the dipshit catagory not nessesarilly the making Americans look bad one.

This may be true. There are dipshits of all nationalities out there.

It makes cruisers on the whole look bad.

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32 minutes ago, SASSAFRASS said:

When It happens unfortunately some idiots will probably crowd source them out of it.  So is the current lunacy we live in.  

Begpacking has come to cruising. 

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46 minutes ago, SASSAFRASS said:

I still think they just fall into the dipshit catagory not nessesarilly the making Americans look bad one.

Whilst I agree with much of your sentiment, and especially that of BJ's insights, the simple fact of the matter remains that there is an elementary school mathmatics lesson regarding the Principles of Venn Diagrams to be had here......

Dipshit - definitely he falls into that Category, Douchebag - more subjective, but he seems to have earned that badge as well...... His arrogance and monetizing of his "adventures" leaves a particularly sour taste in most mouths, so gets a tick for those categories..... His choice of doing it via Sailing, ticks the negative sterotypes that sailing (or yachting) has long had to battle, unfortunately tarring everybody here....... And in the same vein, his Nationality is undeniable, thereby undoing the good work that many other US citizens have done, or continue to do.

Remember the old adage - People are 9 times more likely to tell anyone that will listen about a bad experience (or service) than they will about having received a good experience (or service), so it is the likes of Zatara that disproportionally skew the perception of onlookers to be associated with their readily identifiable characteristics....... Justified or Not.

Consider the rise in mockery of Baby Boomers, BMW drivers, Hipsters, Lawyers and Karens. I know excellent people who fit into these categories, but there are many others who have created the values that these badges (categories) represent. 

Unfortunately Zatara is hardly doing any Americans any favours right now..........

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14 hours ago, Max Rockatansky said:

The CF thread has several shining examples of the type 

 

The CF thread with a high representation from a certain American subsegment may be doing more damage than Zatara are.

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4 hours ago, SASSAFRASS said:

BJ, family of five cruising on a big cat with enough money to have connectivity and just cruise equals wealthy to most of the known world except maybe Dubai.

I believe they have said they still have their house in Minnesota (?) So well funded, and their cat is loaded with toys/conveniences

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5 minutes ago, Boink said:

Unfortunately Zatara is hardly doing any Americans any favours right now..........

there is quite a few Americans not doing Americans or America any favors

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This guy was infamous in the Panama-S Pacific cruising nets as being an idiot who posted videos of himself playing with his guns imagining being attacked by pirates or ppl coming to his home to rape his wife or something. 

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They can probably get in to Fiji without too much drama.  All of them will have to pass a medical and they will have to prove 14 days at sea.  If they pass both then they can stay in Fiji.  The alternative is quarantine in a hotel at their expense.  Maybe that is the real reason for stopping at Minerva.

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Won't be missed in NZ

https://www.newstalkzb.co.nz/news/national/american-family-quits-cold-nz-sails-into-pacific-navy-blockade/?fbclid=IwAR28DsnouD8WcLM6T1G1wAO0VmivJ7oKjEJurU4ndL7BBb2rbyKLq_V5SR8

 

Quote

 

Asked why they shouldn't stay longer in New Zealand Renee replied: "Eww, it's cold, it's winter. There's not going to be a lot of adventure. We're not travelling, we're just living on a boat."

"If we stay in New Zealand we probably won't put videos out because there's really nothing to film and who wants to watch a family living on a boat doing nothing but school and living life like normal? Maybe we could get the kids involved in a New Zealand soccer team or something."

 

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2 hours ago, longy said:

I believe they have said they still have their house in Minnesota (?) So well funded, and their cat is loaded with toys/conveniences

I was under the impression they were from Texas. I have no idea what their position is, but monetizing their Vlogs seems like a priority.

Also it is entirely possible to be toy/convenience rich and cash poor. All it takes is a willingness to spend your money (or credit line) on the gew-gaws instead of keeping it in income producing investments.

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1 hour ago, Miffy said:

This guy was infamous in the Panama-S Pacific cruising nets as being an idiot who posted videos of himself playing with his guns imagining being attacked by pirates or ppl coming to his home to rape his wife or something. 

JBSF got cruising?

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7 minutes ago, Ishmael said:

JBSF got cruising?

Kindred spirits.

I watched snippets of that video. I bought allergy medicine the other day at the White Cross pharmacy that wanted to charge him $250/person for. We might have just missed them, lucky me. They were staying way the heck out at Marsden Cove, about 10 miles down the river, not up in the Town Basin where we are. So it's no wonder I didn't stumble across them anywhere else. They've not been joining in any of the daily cruiser's VHF nets, I know I reach Marsden Cove when I'm the controller on Thursdays.

They didn't join in any of the cruiser social functions that I know of (maybe they did), but I think they've been receiving a lot of pushback from the cruising community on some of their...ideas. Like sneaking out of NZ to sail to Fiji earlier on, stuff like that.

Some serious nonsense in some of that though. "I couldn't get a publicly funded test because they don't want to tell anyone the numbers" while whining about the cost.

No, dummy. You couldn't get the publicly funded test because you aren't a NZ citizen. You don't pay taxes here, so you don't qualify for healthcare. They literally publish testing data and counts daily.

https://www.health.govt.nz/our-work/diseases-and-conditions/covid-19-novel-coronavirus/covid-19-current-situation/covid-19-current-cases

Very reassuring to see him yammering into his cell phone making a video while driving his car around (right hand drive country here, remember?). Pull it the fuck over, Cecil B. Demille, the roads are narrow and twisty. At least they're pretty good at keeping the livestock out of the roads around here. Well, on route 1 anyway. We've only seen a couple of escaped critters. Not counting the country roads.

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Doesn't sound like they have actually done any cruising yet, mostly reality TV.

Hopefully they at least sort that out at some point, may realize having a good time is not that hard.

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31 minutes ago, SASSAFRASS said:

Doesn't sound like they have actually done any cruising yet, mostly reality TV.

Hopefully they at least sort that out at some point, may realize having a good time is not that hard.

They sailed over to NZ, they didn't buy the boat here. They've been out for a couple of years, I think.

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51 minutes ago, SASSAFRASS said:

Doesn't sound like they have actually done any cruising yet, mostly reality TV.

Hopefully they at least sort that out at some point, may realize having a good time is not that hard.

They sailed to Australia via Panama on a 55 ft mono and then bought the cat.

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13 minutes ago, savoir said:
1 hour ago, SASSAFRASS said:

Doesn't sound like they have actually done any cruising yet, mostly reality TV.

Hopefully they at least sort that out at some point, may realize having a good time is not that hard.

They sailed to Australia via Panama on a 55 ft mono and then bought the cat.

Ah. Didn't know that, I thought they had the cat all along.

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4 hours ago, PhilipNZ said:

Asked why they shouldn't stay longer in New Zealand Renee replied: "Eww, it's cold, it's winter. There's not going to be a lot of adventure. We're not travelling, we're just living on a boat."

They have a place in Texas and a ranch in Montana. They went home for Christmas 2019 which I believe would be fairly cold seeing as how that is winter in the USA. They showed video of them skiing in Montana so they can't be that afraid of the cold surely. NZ has some great mountains, scenery and skiing in the winter. Anyway, they are gone and won't get back anytime soon. Only NZers are being allowed back into the country at the moment along with a few selected exceptions and they certainly won't qualify.

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Hey, leave this great family alone. They are a talented bunch-hell, the kid can play guitar while he poses for a family pic!

4940A6AE-B50C-4402-A9B3-C7406E6A4D44.jpeg

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2 hours ago, RobbieP said:

They have a place in Texas and a ranch in Montana. They went home for Christmas 2019 which I believe would be fairly cold seeing as how that is winter in the USA. They showed video of them skiing in Montana so they can't be that afraid of the cold surely. NZ has some great mountains, scenery and skiing in the winter. Anyway, they are gone and won't get back anytime soon. Only NZers are being allowed back into the country at the moment along with a few selected exceptions and they certainly won't qualify.

There are other people here in NZ planning to leave for Fiji in the coming weeks. But Fiji is open, and they have steps to take to get preliminary approval. So they won't leave without a place to go.

Of course, when cyclone season comes, if COVID isn't gone they may be spending that in Fiji, too. Not my first choice.

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34 minutes ago, savoir said:

This is their first boat.  They parked it in Pittwater and sailed off on the cat.  How come you didn't do that ?  It's only money.

https://www.dbyboatsales.com.au/listing/beneteau-oceanis-55-2

I guess they do have mountains of money. So why screw around driving your sailing by where to get the most clicks? Makes no sense.

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5 minutes ago, Sail4beer said:

...while he poses for a family pic!...

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

A poseur is someone who poses for effect, or behaves affectedly, who affects a particular attitude, character or manner to impress others, or who pretends to belong to a particular group. A poseur may be a person who pretends to be what he or she is not or an insincere person; they may have a flair for drama or behave as if they are onstage in daily life.

Yes that seems to fit the crew of Zatara

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1 minute ago, B.J. Porter said:

I guess they do have mountains of money. So why screw around driving your sailing by where to get the most clicks? Makes no sense.

Because their self worth is not determined by net worth but rather by adulation of the clueless and particularly by the clewless.

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19 minutes ago, B.J. Porter said:

I guess they do have mountains of money. So why screw around driving your sailing by where to get the most clicks? Makes no sense.

Perhaps the cold was their main problem.

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Either that or they are just innate shit stirrers. 

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I’m telling y’all, it’s US culture, not some sort of mental illness. 
 

Travel through Florida or for that matter anywhere on the ICW. You’ll see myriad examples of abject douchery, ranging from wake bangers to rude fishermen to bums on derelicts to anchoring fuckery. Over and over again.
 

Tried to escape it in the Bahamas, but unless in the remotest areas, and even then, rude US’ians demonstrate their fuckery: insistence on flouting local laws, contempt for local people, and general rudeness and contempt for etiquette.

I get that y’all want to be loyal and disingenuous, but the bullshit is real and culturally ingrained. 

 

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21 minutes ago, Max Rockatansky said:

I’m telling y’all, it’s US culture, not some sort of mental illness. 
 

Travel through Florida or for that matter anywhere on the ICW. You’ll see myriad examples of abject douchery, ranging from wake bangers to rude fishermen to bums on derelicts to anchoring fuckery. Over and over again.
 

Tried to escape it in the Bahamas, but unless in the remotest areas, and even then, rude US’ians demonstrate their fuckery: insistence on flouting local laws, contempt for local people, and general rudeness and contempt for etiquette.

I get that y’all want to be loyal and disingenuous, but the bullshit is real and culturally ingrained. 

 

You're not like that. BJ isn't like that. I'm not like that.

Every culture has its assholes. They get the unfair share of attention because they are so egregious. My cousin, who lives in Italy says Americans are usually good tourists, it's the Chinese who make a mess of everything when they storm through Florence. She's a licensed guide, not just any towney.

The best thing we can do, is act as good ambassadors of the US as we go forth, and attempt to undo the damage that the Zataras cause. It kind of sucks, but there it is.

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16 minutes ago, Ajax said:

You're not like that. BJ isn't like that. I'm not like that.

Every culture has its assholes. They get the unfair share of attention because they are so egregious. My cousin, who lives in Italy says Americans are usually good tourists, it's the Chinese who make a mess of everything when they storm through Florence. She's a licensed guide, not just any towney.

The best thing we can do, is act as good ambassadors of the US as we go forth, and attempt to undo the damage that the Zataras cause. It kind of sucks, but there it is.

Most long distance cruisers, whether by self selection or  the experience of being away for long then shocked by the experience of reintegrating with other people - seem to be pleasant, curious, accepting of the human nature to differ widely but not wildly. Almost a universalism. 

Every now and then you get someone who doesn't travel to experience new things but to check off the list - IMO it isn't any one nationality. 

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45 minutes ago, Max Rockatansky said:

I’m telling y’all, it’s US culture, not some sort of mental illness. 
 

Travel through Florida or for that matter anywhere on the ICW. You’ll see myriad examples of abject douchery, ranging from wake bangers to rude fishermen to bums on derelicts to anchoring fuckery. Over and over again.
 

Tried to escape it in the Bahamas, but unless in the remotest areas, and even then, rude US’ians demonstrate their fuckery: insistence on flouting local laws, contempt for local people, and general rudeness and contempt for etiquette.

I get that y’all want to be loyal and disingenuous, but the bullshit is real and culturally ingrained. 

 

I've observed all of the fucktardery that you've seen on the ICW and South Florida. It's bad. But it's certainly not exclusive to Americans. I've seen it from every nation you can think of - even the supposedly, "nice", countries. 

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Only 14 months ago:

 

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2 hours ago, Ajax said:

You're not like that. BJ isn't like that. I'm not like that.

Every culture has its assholes. They get the unfair share of attention because they are so egregious. My cousin, who lives in Italy says Americans are usually good tourists, it's the Chinese who make a mess of everything when they storm through Florence. She's a licensed guide, not just any towney.

The best thing we can do, is act as good ambassadors of the US as we go forth, and attempt to undo the damage that the Zataras cause. It kind of sucks, but there it is.

I generally don’t think this ugly behaviour is inherent to a “people” but more a manifestation of their circumstances at a point in time.

Lot’s of countries have the ugly, unworldly but recently affluent demographic that offend when traveling but not enough to form a lasting “branding”...just what is your impression of Luxembourgers, Andorrans, ...you probably have not met enough of them behaving in a particular way to “brand” them.

So you I suspect that a large enough population is needed.  Then combine that with relatively recent affluence and limited worldliness makes for “ugly fill in the blank demographic” when travelling.

To some extent that was the ugly American when the US economy was booming post WWII and the rest of the world had not gotten on its feet.

That may be what is driving the impression of Chinese tourists now.

Who knows maybe there was the “ugly roman” in the early stages of Pax Romana.

I’m not racist some of my best friends are American...

No really, I know a bunch of Americans who are cultured, sophisticated, empathetic, interesting and down right good company.

BUT it does seem to me America is having a moment where a surprising share of its people are relishing their,  me first, libertarian, anti government, gun loving, anti science, anti education zeitgeist.

This feels to me materially different than when I first moved to the US a quarter century ago and gave that great country two of my children as hostages (American citizens). Maybe it’s just the fake news I watch too much of.

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2 hours ago, Miffy said:

Most long distance cruisers, whether by self selection or  the experience of being away for long then shocked by the experience of reintegrating with other people - seem to be pleasant, curious, accepting of the human nature to differ widely but not wildly. Almost a universalism. 

Every now and then you get someone who doesn't travel to experience new things but to check off the list - IMO it isn't any one nationality. 

This, since we have left we have seen no correlation between good or bad behavior and any given flag on the stern.  We have met some jerks and some amazing people.  We haven't really encountered any bias towards us for being from the US anywhere.  At most it seems like people can be reserved around some boats if they had a bad experience with someone with the same flag but that usually is short lived.  As a whole the box checkers regardless of where they are from seem to have a resistance to any sort of integration.  They seem to have a preconceived view of the entire cruising experience and are going a mile a minute to make that a reality. They also seek each other out and tend to have a self insulating and reenforcing click.  Telling each other what they want to hear even when everyone else cautions against a bad or questionable idea.  Sometimes they get talked out of it and seeing that transformation from hectic blinders on full speed ahead to slowed down enjoying things is pretty nice.

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4 hours ago, SASSAFRASS said:

This, since we have left we have seen no correlation between good or bad behavior and any given flag on the stern.  We have met some jerks and some amazing people.  We haven't really encountered any bias towards us for being from the US anywhere.  At most it seems like people can be reserved around some boats if they had a bad experience with someone with the same flag but that usually is short lived.  As a whole the box checkers regardless of where they are from seem to have a resistance to any sort of integration.  They seem to have a preconceived view of the entire cruising experience and are going a mile a minute to make that a reality. They also seek each other out and tend to have a self insulating and reenforcing click.  Telling each other what they want to hear even when everyone else cautions against a bad or questionable idea.  Sometimes they get talked out of it and seeing that transformation from hectic blinders on full speed ahead to slowed down enjoying things is pretty nice.

Oh come on, you KNOW the French always anchor too close! :lol:

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5 minutes ago, B.J. Porter said:

Oh come on, you KNOW the French always anchor too close! :lol:

It is the spirit of friendship and love and friendliness at sea! 

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5 hours ago, KC375 said:

I generally don’t think this ugly behaviour is inherent to a “people” but more a manifestation of their circumstances at a point in time.

Lot’s of countries have the ugly, unworldly but recently affluent demographic that offend when traveling but not enough to form a lasting “branding”...just what is your impression of Luxembourgers, Andorrans, ...you probably have not met enough of them behaving in a particular way to “brand” them.

So you I suspect that a large enough population is needed.  Then combine that with relatively recent affluence and limited worldliness makes for “ugly fill in the blank demographic” when travelling.

To some extent that was the ugly American when the US economy was booming post WWII and the rest of the world had not gotten on its feet.

That may be what is driving the impression of Chinese tourists now.

Who knows maybe there was the “ugly roman” in the early stages of Pax Romana.

I’m not racist some of my best friends are American...

No really, I know a bunch of Americans who are cultured, sophisticated, empathetic, interesting and down right good company.

BUT it does seem to me America is having a moment where a surprising share of its people are relishing their,  me first, libertarian, anti government, gun loving, anti science, anti education zeitgeist.

This feels to me materially different than when I first moved to the US a quarter century ago and gave that great country two of my children as hostages (American citizens). Maybe it’s just the fake news I watch too much of.

I pretty much agree, and, having traveled a lot over a period of decades, can say that most people are really nice, most places you go. 

Cities are tough. The people are rushed and stressed, and that comes out in their behavior, be it Paris, London, New York, Boston, Dallas. 

I tend to try and be very understanding about sailing faux pas, I was blessed to sail with a hugely experienced yachtsman when I was a teenager. Not everyone is so lucky. 

But you had to pick on guns. B) 

I'm leaving in a day or so for my boat in Maine, but until then I'm stuck in the stinkin' desert where it's 100 deg F every day, and I can jump in the pool just so much and my fingers hurt from all of the guitar I'm playing. 

So the wife and I, and the kid who just finished college, go to the air-conditioned indoor range near us, and compete for the best groupings, my son and I with AR's and .45 ACPs, and the bride with her 9 mm. It's good, clean fun. Very safe, teaches respect for the things. There are a LOT of husbands and wives or GF's. It's a cool thing to do on Friday night that doesn't involve alcohol or drugs. 

I don't hunt anymore, but it was a very big deal when my son got his first deer hunting with another family on a lease I provided. For both boys and girls, this is a big deal, and the meat is fantastic. 

We're not nuts. My sailing habit is what calls into question my sanity. 

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My issue with Zatara's guy is not that he owns guns (I do too), it's that by all appearances he smuggles one or more on his boat against his host countries' wishes. That's the kind of shit that gives Americans a very bad name overseas. 

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1 hour ago, B.J. Porter said:

Oh come on, you KNOW the French always anchor too close! :lol:

You've never cruised in the Med. Anchoring is extremely haphazard, (at best) and if you and another boat get to close at night, the standard solution is just to raft together. The anchoring follies at popular spots were endless.

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37 minutes ago, Cruisin Loser said:

...

But you had to pick on guns. B)...

CL I apologize I should have been more nuanced about guns.

I learned to shoot from my uncle who trained as a sniper in WWII. We mostly ate what we shot...crows in the cornfield being the exception. My elder brother who got more attention than I, won a few competitions with his rifle. I learned to care for and respect rifles. The second worst whooping I got was for being sloppy handling a gun. (the worst was for not properly tying the rope on the bucket used to cool the (last) of the beer in the well).

It’s not the gun “loving” that irks me, but rather the brandishing of them, the promotion of them as a solution to societies problems, and the transport of them into places that don’t want them.

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34 minutes ago, longy said:

You've never cruised in the Med. Anchoring is extremely haphazard, (at best) and if you and another boat get to close at night, the standard solution is just to raft together. The anchoring follies at popular spots were endless.

Yes but if the French have rafted up they may well share (a sometimes remarkably good) bottle with you.

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That American love of guns is so absurd for the rest of the world. Why would I have a gun in my home? I don’t have a pet ice bear, I don’t have a nuclear reactor, I don’t have an indoor parsley farm. Why a fucking gun? 

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Only got hit by Germans , once. So-so wine

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3 minutes ago, KC375 said:

CL I apologize I should have been more nuanced about guns.

I learned to shoot from my uncle who trained as a sniper in WWII. We mostly ate what we shot...crows in the cornfield being the exception. My elder brother who got more attention than I, won a few competitions with his rifle. I learned to care for and respect rifles. The second worst whooping I got was for being sloppy handling a gun. (the worst was for not properly tying the rope on the bucket used to cool the (last) of the beer in the well).

It’s not the gun “loving” that irks me, but rather the brandishing of them, the promotion of them as a solution to societies problems, and the transport of them into places that don’t want them.

Huge mistake to ever apologize to me, for anything. 

Some people dragged their anchor into us at Block Island once, and apologized.

We showed them all right! Invited them for drinks we did! They won't pull that shit on me again.

2060105952_sailing003.thumb.jpg.b4f6a549f951073093f50e3c2b44a831.jpg

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3 minutes ago, Cruisin Loser said:

Huge mistake to ever apologize to me, for anything. 

Some people dragged their anchor into us at Block Island once, and apologized.

We showed them all right! Invited them for drinks we did! They won't pull that shit on me again.

 

Far better than the twats who dragged into me in the middle of the night at Block once. They moved in the dark, and never stopped back in daylight to see if they did any damage.

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6 minutes ago, Cruisin Loser said:

...

2060105952_sailing003.thumb.jpg.b4f6a549f951073093f50e3c2b44a831.jpg

I like your approach to teaching anchor etiquette.

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19 minutes ago, 10thTonner said:

That American love of guns is so absurd for the rest of the world. Why would I have a gun in my home? I don’t have a pet ice bear, I don’t have a nuclear reactor, I don’t have an indoor parsley farm. Why a fucking gun? 

It is complicated and with many layers like an onion. 
 

Suffice to say - there are legitimate uses whether for hobbyists, hunting, specific threat perceived home defense - and then there’s brandishing firearms in videos ranting about big brother and needing guns to defend yourself from terrorists in the middle of no where Montana and treating every brown person in a fishing boat in the pacific as a pirate. 

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I'll give it to the US..... you people do a fine line in douche....

Loved the line at 7.50 .. NZ doesn't want to do tests because they don't want the numbers out there..... no .. Dickhead... that is that Trump goose....

Meanwhile...

Rule #1 do not piss off sovereign states.

Rule #2 do not visit disputed territories and piss off two sovereign states...

Especially of going to nation #2 after dealing with authorities of nation #1  in the disputed territory.....

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1 hour ago, IStream said:

My issue with Zatara's guy is not that he owns guns (I do too), it's that by all appearances he smuggles one or more on his boat against his host countries' wishes. That's the kind of shit that gives Americans a very bad name overseas. 

Not to defend him, but Zatara dude stated at the Miami  Boy Show  he hasn't carried a gun on a boat in  a few years and actually gave a presentation on why having guns on board whilst cruising is a bad idea. So he is a reformed gun-toter. But facts never get in the way of Blowhard Jizzsucker's Pontificating, or BJP for short. .  

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There’s a show I used to watch called House Hunters International. 

I would always chuckle when a soon to be expat American family just couldn’t wrap their mind over the size of a European refrigerator.

No matter how hard they tried to comprehend it, that damn fridge would be the first thing to go if they signed the deal.

 

 

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My beef with European appliances was that the clothes washer was tiny. 

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39 minutes ago, fufkin said:

There’s a show I used to watch called House Hunters International. 

I would always chuckle when a soon to be expat American family just couldn’t wrap their mind over the size of a European refrigerator.

No matter how hard they tried to comprehend it, that damn fridge would be the first thing to go if they signed the deal.

 

 

Kyle and Karen feel they love Iceland and would like to connect with their Nordic roots. They want to move there then find a job. Their budget? $250,000. 

realtor: this apt 50km from Greater Reykjavík is $300,000; 2 bed 1 bath with small hob and appliances. Bus stop 10 min walk. Good deal. 
 

expat to be: not what I expected. No pool?

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1 hour ago, Cristoforo said:

Not to defend him, but Zatara dude stated at the Miami  Boy Show  he hasn't carried a gun on a boat in  a few years and actually gave a presentation on why having guns on board whilst cruising is a bad idea. So he is a reformed gun-toter. But facts never get in the way of Blowhard Jizzsucker's Pontificating, or BJP for short. .  

BJP has been cruising not watching YouTube or boat show PR shticks. 

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2 hours ago, Miffy said:
2 hours ago, 10thTonner said:

That American love of guns is so absurd for the rest of the world. Why would I have a gun in my home? I don’t have a pet ice bear, I don’t have a nuclear reactor, I don’t have an indoor parsley farm. Why a fucking gun? 

It is complicated and with many layers like an onion. 
 

Suffice to say - there are legitimate uses whether for hobbyists, hunting, specific threat perceived home defense - and then there’s brandishing firearms in videos ranting about big brother and needing guns to defend yourself from terrorists in the middle of no where Montana and treating every brown person in a fishing boat in the pacific as a pirate. 

I've owned and used guns. It's a thing. But it's also a deadly responsibility, and too many Americans seem to not have the ability to be responsible.

One of our acquaintances (the wife was a close friend of one of my friends, I found this couple tedious at best) had a cruising powerboat on the US East Coats and decided to go to Canada. The man was not a hard core gun nut but somewhat of a right-winger. He had hosted some hunting buddies on the boat and apparently their drunk weekend included going into the woods (there's lots around here) and blasting things with shotguns. Fast forward... the couple is checking into a small Great Lakes port on the Canada side.

The man (predictably IMHO) goes into a rant about his right to keep guns on his boat. The Canadian border guards probably see this kind of performance from about 25% of Americans who try to cross their border and are NOT amused. They are even less amused when they see this man has a couple of loose shotgun shells in the desk drawer of the nav table. They ask him to leave quietly, he DARES them to search the boat.

The couple is interned aboard the boat, in the morning the Canadian equivalent of a SWAT team shows up and begins disassembling the boat. Politely, I'm sure. Including the removal of engine components. It is all photographed and placed neatly on the dock. There is no gun.

Canada law enforcement gives them an entry stamp, welcomes them to Canada.

They call an American marina to send a boat over to tow their cruiser... and them... back to the States for reassembly. No doubt with angry declarations that they are NEVER COMING HERE AGAIN!!!

FB- Doug

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On 7/4/2020 at 9:24 PM, B.J. Porter said:

they never seem to make it all the way to the true Libertarian paradise of Somalia.

Exactly.

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11 hours ago, Ajax said:

Every culture has its assholes. They get the unfair share of attention because they are so egregious. My cousin, who lives in Italy says Americans are usually good tourists, it's the Chinese who make a mess of everything when they storm through Florence.

Since China passed the US economically between 2006 and 2012 (depending on how you count), they Chinese seem to have adopted a similar attitude that has long been connected to people from the USA: "When you are on top of the world, and you and everyone else knows it, loudly act the part."

Recently, I was having my Porsche serviced at Rusnak in Pasadena, California. A Chinese family came in, and walked around using their phones to translate all the window stickers. Within the hour, they left as a parade with the most expensive Porsche, Rolls, Bentley, and similar in the entire place. A total spend of about $2 million dollars for six cars, in the time it takes many families to enjoy a lunch at McDonalds. The cheapest was the $300K+ Porsche 911 GT3 RS with every option.

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