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I get the example bit, but wonder if giving them the option to hit the road is not unreasonable. Maybe a fine or permanent ban for NZ yes and off you go but taking the boat is messed up.

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1 hour ago, SASSAFRASS said:

I get the example bit, but wonder if giving them the option to hit the road is not unreasonable. Maybe a fine or permanent ban for NZ yes and off you go but taking the boat is messed up.

Agreed it is tough being made an example of, but when you cross a border into a sovereign nation you are completely at their mercy. If I tried to 'import' a couple of joints into the USA or some fruit and veg into Oz, I might find the outcome "messed-up" but it wouldn't be arbitrary - the outcome was know beforehand. Potentially 'importing' a virus into a country that has spent considerable time, effort and money freeing itself from the pandemic is at least as serious...

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37 minutes ago, Jim in Halifax said:

Agreed it is tough being made an example of, but when you cross a border into a sovereign nation you are completely at their mercy. If I tried to 'import' a couple of joints into the USA or some fruit and veg into Oz, I might find the outcome "messed-up" but it wouldn't be arbitrary - the outcome was know beforehand. Potentially 'importing' a virus into a country that has spent considerable time, effort and money freeing itself from the pandemic is at least as serious...

Doing this in the middle of an election is not clever as obviously there might be lot of posturing...

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Not trying to justify them by any means or their apparent disregard for the rules, however I don't see why NZ customs couldn't have down the shot over the bow routine and off they go to plan b. Tell them they are violating NZ waters and need to turn around or their vessel will be siezed and they will have all sorts of bad things happen.  At that point they are a nuisance not a risk. Send them a bill for the cost of launching the response boat and crew and be done with it.

 

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51 minutes ago, SASSAFRASS said:

Not trying to justify them by any means or their apparent disregard for the rules, however I don't see why NZ customs couldn't have down the shot over the bow routine and off they go to plan b. Tell them they are violating NZ waters and need to turn around or their vessel will be siezed and they will have all sorts of bad things happen.  At that point they are a nuisance not a risk. Send them a bill for the cost of launching the response boat and crew and be done with it.

 

Did you miss this bit?

"Their 16-metre vessel, Anita, arrived in Opua on Friday afternoon despite being declined permission to enter the country by the Ministry of Health."

So they *KNEW* they weren't allowed to enter, did it anyway. The refusal was their first warning.

Fuck them, they had their chance.

FKT

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2 hours ago, Fah Kiew Tu said:

Did you miss this bit?

"Their 16-metre vessel, Anita, arrived in Opua on Friday afternoon despite being declined permission to enter the country by the Ministry of Health."

So they *KNEW* they weren't allowed to enter, did it anyway. The refusal was their first warning.

Fuck them, they had their chance.

FKT

This.

Living the in the US over the last few years has been an exercise in "the rules don't apply to me" taken to the extreme and I'm done with it. I hope they deport those assholes in irons and confiscate their boat. The only thing better would've been if they were Americans instead of Germans.

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On 9/26/2020 at 4:17 AM, Cisco said:
On 9/26/2020 at 4:17 AM, Cisco said:

 

Cabo de Hornos and Patagonia ? Last frontier? Dream on....

 

 

DSC_0208.jpg

Well, hell, man, racing Optis in Ushuaia (?) [oops, pardon me - that’s in the fucking enemy’s country, Argentina!! ] is kinda edge-of-the-known-world, isn’t it?  :-)   (Last frontier...has anyone taken an Opti around the Horn?  Launch it off the beach on Isla Hornos, sail a hundred meters, and thereby “round”‘ the Horn :-) )

Makes me think - it’s cool to think that my teenage daughter, who just started teaching dinghy sailing this last summer, could theoretically hop on a plane and go teach dinghy sailing down there - on the very same boats she knows - the international nature of sailing.

BTW, I see the Lasers in the pic as well. :-)

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12 hours ago, IStream said:

This.

Living the in the US over the last few years has been an exercise in "the rules don't apply to me" taken to the extreme and I'm done with it. I hope they deport those assholes in irons and confiscate their boat. The only thing better would've been if they were Americans instead of Germans.

There's a boat here that spent something like 35-40 days trying to get let in somewhere. Ran out of alot of stuff sounded like a nightmare. I've adjusted my view some on people trying to get from somewhere not safe to somewhere safe. These guys are certainly in the middle somewhere, they had other options and rolled the dice wrong.  The original idiot left a safe place to go somewhere knowingly unsafe with storm season and no permission so is definitely on asshole end of the spectrum.  Myself I was definitely contemplating bending rules to try and get home when I was stuck in the states, so having been effected somewhat by all of it I can't draw a firm line in the sand.  For some people there will be hard choices to make, I can't attach the entitled douche tag to all of them.

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1 hour ago, SASSAFRASS said:

There's a boat here that spent something like 35-40 days trying to get let in somewhere. Ran out of alot of stuff sounded like a nightmare. I've adjusted my view some on people trying to get from somewhere not safe to somewhere safe. These guys are certainly in the middle somewhere, they had other options and rolled the dice wrong.  The original idiot left a safe place to go somewhere knowingly unsafe with storm season and no permission so is definitely on asshole end of the spectrum.  Myself I was definitely contemplating bending rules to try and get home when I was stuck in the states, so having been effected somewhat by all of it I can't draw a firm line in the sand.  For some people there will be hard choices to make, I can't attach the entitled douche tag to all of them.

I was speaking specifically about this entitled douche and that entitled American asshole with his family on the cat. I understand it's always dangerous to paint with a broad brush but these two seem pretty cut and dried.

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Yeah it kinda irritates me when you have a big group like the one advacating for all the boats to get entry into NZ being so myopic and not trying any alternatives.  I can't believe NZ and Aus are it.  

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1 hour ago, SASSAFRASS said:

Yeah it kinda irritates me when you have a big group like the one advacating for all the boats to get entry into NZ being so myopic and not trying any alternatives.  I can't believe NZ and Aus are it.  

That's geography and weather systems for you.

Cyclones go where they go.

In theory you could go north, towards the equator. But places like Kiribati and the Line Islands are really equipped to take a lot of boats. Especially if one brings in COVID.

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Unsubstantiated word from NZ..... Anita's crew are on their way home... boat is under custom's control.... when all goes back to normal they can come back , pay a fine, and get their boat back.

Apart from the fine this may have been their  plan in the first place.

Two points...

I don't think there is an NZ law that lets you simply seize people's stuff.... after a drug bust and trial - yes - proceeds of crime etc.

This has sent a message to the Zataras of the world.... most won't hear of the outcome as that is yesterday's  news... first headline will stick.

Maybe NZ should say that you can bring your boat, lay it up, and then bugger off home......

OK so that was three points....

 

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9 minutes ago, Cisco said:

Unsubstantiated word from NZ..... Anita's crew are on their way home... boat is under custom's control.... when all goes back to normal they can come back , pay a fine, and get their boat back.

Apart from the fine this may have been their  plan in the first place.

Two points...

I don't think there is an NZ law that lets you simply seize people's stuff.... after a drug bust and trial - yes - proceeds of crime etc.

This has sent a message to the Zataras of the world.... most won't hear of the outcome as that is yesterday's  news... first headline will stick.

Maybe NZ should say that you can bring your boat, lay it up, and then bugger off home......

OK so that was three points....

 

Pretty sure Australia's done it - someone who didn't think clearing in applied to them & sailed into Brisbane comes to mind.

Regardless lack of a law is quickly remedied especially in NZ with a single government and single political body.

Lay up & bugger off is basically what I've been saying we should do - allow entry to Bundaberg, quarantine 2 weeks, lay up & piss off home.

FKT

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1 hour ago, Fah Kiew Tu said:

Pretty sure Australia's done it - someone who didn't think clearing in applied to them & sailed into Brisbane comes to mind.

Regardless lack of a law is quickly remedied especially in NZ with a single government and single political body.

Lay up & bugger off is basically what I've been saying we should do - allow entry to Bundaberg, quarantine 2 weeks, lay up & piss off home.

FKT

Yeah, there was that guy in the gold coast a few years back, lost his boat.

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22 hours ago, Jud - s/v Sputnik said:

Last frontier...has anyone taken an Opti around the Horn?

Not an Opti, but close. A guy named Howard Rice, whom had paddled/ sailed a 15' canoe around the horn back in 1989, tried again a few years back in a funky design called a Scamp with near disastrous results.

http://www.mysailing.com.au/cruising/howard-rice-the-end-of-the-south-american-adventure-comes-in-dramatic-fashion

https://www.facebook.com/SmallCraftAdvisorMagazineProject/posts/d41d8cd9/1244263025612566/

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On 9/29/2020 at 4:01 PM, Willin' said:

Not an Opti, but close. A guy named Howard Rice, whom had paddled/ sailed a 15' canoe around the horn back in 1989, tried again a few years back in a funky design called a Scamp with near disastrous results.

http://www.mysailing.com.au/cruising/howard-rice-the-end-of-the-south-american-adventure-comes-in-dramatic-fashion

https://www.facebook.com/SmallCraftAdvisorMagazineProject/posts/d41d8cd9/1244263025612566/

19th february 1988 I paddled round on a 5'10" single fin surboard

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On 9/28/2020 at 4:51 PM, Cisco said:

OK so that was three points....

Yeah, but they were all good points.:)

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On 9/29/2020 at 11:51 AM, Cisco said:

I don't think there is an NZ law that lets you simply seize people's stuff.... after a drug bust and trial - yes - proceeds of crime etc.

In Australia (yeah, laws are different, but...) there was a case involving the seizure of a yacht which arrived in the country without clearing in because it was carrying non-Australian passengers without visas.

The attached story doesn't tell all the details, but he pulled in through the Gold Coast Seaway and dropped anchor before they found him. Apparently the law he violated had something to do with the provision about bringing foreign nationals into the country without a visa. He himself was simply entering illegally, but by carrying someone else into the coastal waters without notification and then stopping put him afoul of some of the "boat people" laws which lead to forfeiture of a vessel used to bring people in without visas.

I can't find all the details on the court case now.

https://www.canberratimes.com.au/story/6001014/croatian-captain-who-fell-foul-of-visa-laws-has-racing-yacht-seized-on-gold-coast/

 

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11 minutes ago, B.J. Porter said:

In Australia (yeah, laws are different, but...) there was a case involving the seizure of a yacht which arrived in the country without clearing in because it was carrying non-Australian passengers without visas.

The attached story doesn't tell all the details, but he pulled in through the Gold Coast Seaway and dropped anchor before they found him. Apparently the law he violated had something to do with the provision about bringing foreign nationals into the country without a visa. He himself was simply entering illegally, but by carrying someone else into the coastal waters without notification and then stopping put him afoul of some of the "boat people" laws which lead to forfeiture of a vessel used to bring people in without visas.

I can't find all the details on the court case now.

https://www.canberratimes.com.au/story/6001014/croatian-captain-who-fell-foul-of-visa-laws-has-racing-yacht-seized-on-gold-coast/

 

Yes, but that was after a trial, not instantly...

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7 hours ago, 167149 said:

19th february 1988 I paddled round on a 5'10" single fin surboard

There's gotta be a good story behind that!

 

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1 hour ago, Panoramix said:

Yes, but that was after a trial, not instantly...

True. I do not think the boat here has been forfeited as yet, only seized and impounded.

I suspect it's fate will become a matter for the courts as well, though it's going to suck trying to fight that from Germany. I hope they've meet some lawyers in their brief stay in NZ.

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On 9/26/2020 at 3:37 PM, B.J. Porter said:

I don't believe anyone suggested ONLY Americans can be dumbasses. Just that the subjects in the OP were, while being loudly American.

We've seen dumbassery from a lot of different nationalities. One of the cruisers I mentioned on the first page of the thread who got busted smuggling food into NZ was French.

There's a need to differentiate "American" from "Texan" - and a reason many of us wouldn't mind seeing that island of dumbassery, noise, and national fiscal liability cast off in the name of secession. Dump them, their chosen politicians and policies, and the national image improves 50%, at least.

Not to stir the pot, but it's the same reason many Germans wouldn't mind being disassociated from "Bavarians". ;-)

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I really don’t understand why, if Tx is so fuckin great that every other word from them is ‘Texas heat’ or ‘Texas this’ or ‘Texas that,’ and they fly their Texas flags, and blah blah Texas... why do they leave Texas at all? 

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1 hour ago, Max Rockatansky said:

I really don’t understand why, if Tx is so fuckin great that every other word from them is ‘Texas heat’ or ‘Texas this’ or ‘Texas that,’ and they fly their Texas flags, and blah blah Texas... why do they leave Texas at all? 

It's all part of the dick measuring process and lifestyle.

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I've posted this opinion before: Texans are some of my most favorite people on the planet. But, with possible the exception of the Hill Country around Austin and San Antonio, they deserve a better place to live. And, maybe because of that, they don't travel well when visiting other parts of the country with more to brag about.

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One thing I've noticed in my travels around Texas: it seems compulsory that the breakfast bars in Texas hotels must feature a Texas-shaped waffle maker.

 

I always thought it'd be funny if Florida did something similar

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7 hours ago, Max Rockatansky said:

I really don’t understand why, if Tx is so fuckin great that every other word from them is ‘Texas heat’ or ‘Texas this’ or ‘Texas that,’ and they fly their Texas flags, and blah blah Texas... why do they leave Texas at all? 

I spent ten years in Texas and spent ten years seriously, strenuously striving to understand the culture. It's a big state and it's very diverse across any metric of diversity so it defies simple conclusions. Mostly.  But I have to agree with Max on this. (some) Texans loudly proclaimed how beautiful Texas was, AND how plain and ugly other states were. I would stare at their eyes and wonder; "do you have glaucoma?" They had just been in Colorado, the mid-west, and other nice parts of the country. How had they missed the beauty? Texas is many things but beautiful it is not. And hill country is just as pretty (or not) as most any other hilly state in the US. It's northern Indiana with long horn cattle. 

In my efforts to understand Texas I found the book "Lonestar Nation" helpful. The author argues that Texas is so inhospitable and tough that most immigrants to the region quickly fled (including most tribes of indigenous Americans, the French, Spanish, and Mexicans). The only people who were left were either too poor, stupid, tough, or stubborn to leave. Their stubbornness was eventually rewarded with oil, and money, and stubbornness became pride. A friend once told me, "Texans aren't just proud of being from Texas. They are proud of being proud of being from Texas." 

The excitement Texans feel for their state is only matched by the excitement other people feel for hating the state. I spent ten years sailing the Great Lakes and Canada with a TX registration number on my boat. It was like a magnet for people to unload about how much they disagreed with the State, politics, policies. The year of Deepwater Horizon I was confronted by someone who implied it was my fault the rig blew out, being from Texas and the oil and all. Another year a school teacher from Michigan complained that Texas was ruining textbooks for her school (which is a little true. But I have little to do with text book adoption in Texas, so I would rather talk about anchors and such, m'am). Mass shooting in Finland? Guy on the dock angrily explained that nice people in Canada would never do that, but perhaps someone with a boat from Texas, loaded with guns, or something...

Like everyplace I have lived, it has a unique culture. It has very nice, kind people, and it has rude dickheads. 

Thanks for coming to my TedTalk.

Snubs

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I lived in Tx for a couple years, and truer words than these were never spoken:

“If I owned Texas and Hell, I would rent out Texas and live in Hell.”
General Philip Henry Sheridan

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On 10/1/2020 at 12:37 AM, Willin' said:

There's gotta be a good story behind that!

 

not really, flat calm day , light northerly, never seen it so settled, and we were there

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Just flitted through the opening comments on the Zits latest offering ( can still only open one out of every ten or so vids on yt).... seems like they are going to Guam for the austral summer....

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11 minutes ago, iorangi said:

Salient part:

"For clarity, humanitarian reasons or other compelling needs would be unlikely to include situations relating solely to financial loss, or to vessels travelling primarily for pleasure or convenience."

The vessel is sound and the owners have already been able to fly to the UK and back. They can move the vessel, they simply don't want to. I can understand that under the circumstances but the reason they want to go to NZ is to be able to sell the boat more readily. IOW, purely financial decision.

It's not a NZ problem regardless of tragic events.

FKT

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14 minutes ago, iorangi said:

Everyone trying to give the parade of sorrows to get an exemption from a covid world which frankly doesn’t give a damn. 
 

Im sure if New Zealand instituted a “abandoning circumnavigation sale % scheme” where boats currently outside of NZ waters and owned by non-Kiwis can bring their boats to New Zealand but the gov retains 10% of the bill of sale $; they’ll suddenly decide Guam is worth it. 

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4 hours ago, Miffy said:

Everyone trying to give the parade of sorrows to get an exemption from a covid world which frankly doesn’t give a damn. 
 

Im sure if New Zealand instituted a “abandoning circumnavigation sale % scheme” where boats currently outside of NZ waters and owned by non-Kiwis can bring their boats to New Zealand but the gov retains 10% of the bill of sale $; they’ll suddenly decide Guam is worth it. 

That's sort of how it works if you sell it to a Kiwi anyway*.

I can say from first hand experience, while NZ is a fantastic place to BE to sell a boat during the pandemic, it's a pretty shit-awful place to sell a big bluewater boat at the moment. If your market is international (theirs, like mine, is) then freaking nobody can come see the boat, and you can't even give them a time frame when they can collect it.

They are much, much better off moving the boat to Tahiti and storing and selling it there.

 

* not quite...but the boat has to be imported if it will stay in NZ waters, and someone has to come up with the 20% (GST + duty), which has the net effect of making your boat less saleable in the local market.

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48 minutes ago, B.J. Porter said:

That's sort of how it works if you sell it to a Kiwi anyway*.

I can say from first hand experience, while NZ is a fantastic place to BE to sell a boat during the pandemic, it's a pretty shit-awful place to sell a big bluewater boat at the moment. If your market is international (theirs, like mine, is) then freaking nobody can come see the boat, and you can't even give them a time frame when they can collect it.

They are much, much better off moving the boat to Tahiti and storing and selling it there.

They might have a problem with that though once the UK exits the EU completely. Assuming the boat is UK registered anyway.

FKT

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3 hours ago, Fah Kiew Tu said:

They might have a problem with that though once the UK exits the EU completely. Assuming the boat is UK registered anyway.

FKT

True, once it's not part of the EU they might run against import requirements in French Poly. I think they usually give you a couple of years though, so they should be able to sort it.

It really is a tragic, horrible story these folks went through, it really shook a lot of the cruising community because that's one of the nightmare scenarios cruising families have.

And you see shitty behavior in anchorages all the time...and unfortunately in so many cases it's local commercial boats.

 

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3 hours ago, B.J. Porter said:

True, once it's not part of the EU they might run against import requirements in French Poly. I think they usually give you a couple of years though, so they should be able to sort it.

It really is a tragic, horrible story these folks went through, it really shook a lot of the cruising community because that's one of the nightmare scenarios cruising families have.

And you see shitty behavior in anchorages all the time...and unfortunately in so many cases it's local commercial boats.

 

In Sydney it was jet skis. Got so bad that the Premier of the time banned the things from Sydney Harbour. His only mistake IMO was not banning them south of the Qld-NSW border.

Agree it's a bloody nightmare for them. Don't blame them at all for wanting to sell up & go home.

FKT

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BJ, do you have any idea of what’s involved in shipping your boat out of there to a better market?

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41 minutes ago, Fah Kiew Tu said:

In Sydney it was jet skis. Got so bad that the Premier of the time banned the things from Sydney Harbour. His only mistake IMO was not banning them south of the Qld-NSW border.

Agree it's a bloody nightmare for them. Don't blame them at all for wanting to sell up & go home.

FKT

The reason Victoria has 'boat driver's licences' or whatever they are called is because a young fellow was killed by a jet ski on Port Phillip  about 20 years ago.

The land based equivalent is the quad bike... there is a push to have roll bars compulsory ... the biggest brands have said that if they have to fit roll bars they will quit the market... good riddance...

https://www.safeworkaustralia.gov.au/quad-bike-fatality-data

  • 'None of the 128 fatalities mentioned any form of rollover protection on the vehicle'

Sorry... a bit off topic...carry on

 

 

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9 hours ago, Cisco said:

The reason Victoria has 'boat driver's licences' or whatever they are called is because a young fellow was killed by a jet ski on Port Phillip  about 20 years ago.

The land based equivalent is the quad bike... there is a push to have roll bars compulsory ... the biggest brands have said that if they have to fit roll bars they will quit the market... good riddance...

https://www.safeworkaustralia.gov.au/quad-bike-fatality-data

  • 'None of the 128 fatalities mentioned any form of rollover protection on the vehicle'

Sorry... a bit off topic...carry on

 

 

watched the local kids in alaska on quads about 35 yrs ago and was frankly stunned with what they did with them stuntwise, the learning curve must have really hurt at some stage, locally in NZ the farm quads i believe need roll over protection and helmets.... can be very dangerous little fuckers in high country farming and well able to bite on the flat country as well

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10 hours ago, olaf hart said:

BJ, do you have any idea of what’s involved in shipping your boat out of there to a better market?

From NZ or from French Polynesia?

We once got quotes from the two main "ship your boat by ship" someplace companies to send our boat from Australia to Europe. We thought it would be cool to be cruising the med and Europe while our son was in school in the UK.

They were $77,000 and $110,000. You also have to be where they pick up, though I think Auckland is a stop.

It doesn't make a ton of sense for us, for that kind of financial hit I can live on the boat for a year or more while it sells elsewhere. It will sell eventually, there IS interest. It's mostly about getting the boat to the buyer.

If I had to pick the highest probability scenario for a distance buyer over the next six months, it would be we meet them in Fiji next May/June to deliver the boat - it's only a week's sail from here. And that seems low probability, because it would require someone to buy the boat without seeing it.

 

Though I have learned that the last Hallberg-Rassy 53 sold in NZ was shipped back to Europe by the buyer.

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4 hours ago, B.J. Porter said:

From NZ or from French Polynesia?

We once got quotes from the two main "ship your boat by ship" someplace companies to send our boat from Australia to Europe. We thought it would be cool to be cruising the med and Europe while our son was in school in the UK.

They were $77,000 and $110,000. You also have to be where they pick up, though I think Auckland is a stop.

It doesn't make a ton of sense for us, for that kind of financial hit I can live on the boat for a year or more while it sells elsewhere. It will sell eventually, there IS interest. It's mostly about getting the boat to the buyer.

If I had to pick the highest probability scenario for a distance buyer over the next six months, it would be we meet them in Fiji next May/June to deliver the boat - it's only a week's sail from here. And that seems low probability, because it would require someone to buy the boat without seeing it.

 

Though I have learned that the last Hallberg-Rassy 53 sold in NZ was shipped back to Europe by the buyer.

I figured it would be about 1/3 of the asking price plus minus.  It's odd that potential buyers have some split calculous on this.  When we sold our last boat the couple shipped it from Lazero Cardenas to Victoria, we ended up dropping the price to eat some of this.  In retrospect not sailing MX seems as nuts as not buying a suitable boat in the PNW, but there you go.

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4 hours ago, SASSAFRASS said:

I figured it would be about 1/3 of the asking price plus minus.  It's odd that potential buyers have some split calculous on this.  When we sold our last boat the couple shipped it from Lazero Cardenas to Victoria, we ended up dropping the price to eat some of this.  In retrospect not sailing MX seems as nuts as not buying a suitable boat in the PNW, but there you go.

In spite of what a lying douchehole in this thread has implied, we're not in desperate enough straights to give up 1/3 of the value of the boat to sell it. We can cruise for some time still, we're just choosing not to to keep doors open down the road.

At the end of the day the $100K out of my pocket comes out either way if I take the hit in my selling price. I rather spend that $100K cruising around on my boat for a couple of more years instead of just...giving it to someone else to take my boat from me.

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On 9/28/2020 at 6:43 AM, Jud - s/v Sputnik said:

...  (Last frontier...has anyone taken an Opti around the Horn?  Launch it off the beach on Isla Hornos, sail a hundred meters, and thereby “round”‘ the Horn :-) )...

There's rules about that: for an 'official' rounding of the Horn, you need to travel from 50deg south on one side to 50deg on the other - bit more of a challenge in an Opti!

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50 minutes ago, alphafb552 said:

There's rules about that: for an 'official' rounding of the Horn, you need to travel from 50deg south on one side to 50deg on the other - bit more of a challenge in an Opti!

Not so....' 50deg south on one side to 50deg on the other' -  non stop -  is 'Doubling the Horn' ....

Rounding Cape Horn is the same as rounding any other cape... at breakfast its on the bow.... by afternoon tea time its on the quarter... job done

'Doubling the Horn' is a serious big deal..... rounding it? Pfffft... leave Williams Monday morning.... back in town  by Thursday  tea time ... its all a bit of a ......

100_1295.jpg

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7 hours ago, Cisco said:

 

Not so....' 50deg south on one side to 50deg on the other' -  non stop -  is 'Doubling the Horn' ....

Rounding Cape Horn is the same as rounding any other cape... at breakfast its on the bow.... by afternoon tea time its on the quarter... job done

'Doubling the Horn' is a serious big deal..... rounding it? Pfffft... leave Williams Monday morning.... back in town  by Thursday  tea time ... its all a bit of a ......

100_1295.jpg

Diego Ramirerez was the one we couldnt find a suitable window to visit

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12 hours ago, Cisco said:

 

Not so....' 50deg south on one side to 50deg on the other' -  non stop -  is 'Doubling the Horn' ....

Rounding Cape Horn is the same as rounding any other cape... at breakfast its on the bow.... by afternoon tea time its on the quarter... job done

'Doubling the Horn' is a serious big deal..... rounding it? Pfffft... leave Williams Monday morning.... back in town  by Thursday  tea time ... its all a bit of a ......

100_1295.jpg

does not look likte tea time, I'd rather label it like beer time, at least when the skipper hasn't been helping emptying the cave, that might explain the yawn

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On 10/10/2020 at 10:52 PM, B.J. Porter said:

It doesn't make a ton of sense for us, for that kind of financial hit I can live on the boat for a year or more while it sells elsewhere. It will sell eventually, there IS interest. It's mostly about getting the boat to the buyer.

Get a few competent crew onboard and sail her to Europe direct... Europe has reopened, you earn bragging rights from rounding the horn, do some tourism in Europe with the money you've saved and eventually sell her at a decent price.

Or may be not... yes I know roaring forties and all that but others have done it ....

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16 hours ago, B.J. Porter said:

In spite of what a lying douchehole in this thread has implied, we're not in desperate enough straights to give up 1/3 of the value of the boat to sell it. We can cruise for some time still, we're just choosing not to to keep doors open down the road.

At the end of the day the $100K out of my pocket comes out either way if I take the hit in my selling price. I rather spend that $100K cruising around on my boat for a couple of more years instead of just...giving it to someone else to take my boat from me.

That kind of math only makes sense when you already bought the next boat....

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1 hour ago, SASSAFRASS said:

That kind of math only makes sense when you already bought the next boat....

Well yeah. When you're next boat is 5-10 years on the horizon...not so much.

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For sure haha, we are those idiots who buy the next one before selling the first one...

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2 hours ago, Panoramix said:

Get a few competent crew onboard and sail her to Europe direct... Europe has reopened, you earn bragging rights from rounding the horn, do some tourism in Europe with the money you've saved and eventually sell her at a decent price.

Or may be not... yes I know roaring forties and all that but others have done it ....

Hard pass on that one. And from here, Europe is easier the other way...

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1 hour ago, SASSAFRASS said:

For sure haha, we are those idiots who buy the next one before selling the first one...

I have been a commodore in the past, yes...it isn't wise.

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12 minutes ago, B.J. Porter said:

Hard pass on that one. And from here, Europe is easier the other way...

a really long way now that the red sea is too dangerous and the bit between Mauritius and Cape town is upwind...

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On 10/11/2020 at 2:11 AM, B.J. Porter said:

In spite of what a lying douchehole in this thread has implied, we're not in desperate enough straights to give up 1/3 of the value of the boat to sell it. We can cruise for some time still, we're just choosing not to to keep doors open down the road.

At the end of the day the $100K out of my pocket comes out either way if I take the hit in my selling price. I rather spend that $100K cruising around on my boat for a couple of more years instead of just...giving it to someone else to take my boat from me.

With your second welfare check you will soon be cashing from Trump, you can stay out yachting another couple of weeks. 

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2 hours ago, Cristoforo said:

With your second welfare check you will soon be cashing from Trump, you can stay out yachting another couple of weeks. 

What crawled up your butt and died this morning?

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1 hour ago, hdra said:

What crawled up your butt and died this morning century?

He's always like this.

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3 hours ago, hdra said:

What crawled up your butt and died this morning?

I happened at birth, I suspect.

Though in his heart, I think he's just a frustrated asshole who takes out his failures as resentments on others.

Especially if they are liberal and have done one of the things he dreamed at but failed to do.

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If you hate and despise the politics and governing and ethics and morals  of your national leader, but are not so offended and ashamed to cash a $1200 welfare check he sends you on your yacht while you are pontificating about how well off you are,   I think that is the definition of a whore. 
Hey, not judging.  Those kids in college need books and Volvo spare parts are super expensive! 
 

Sure, I dreamed of achieving an adjusted income low enough to have my Govt automatically send me a welfare check. Right. 

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4 hours ago, SASSAFRASS said:

Maybe time to move it BJ, PA crawls north

Nah, just my creepy stalker.

That sad little man follows me around everywhere spewing lies.

Unfortunately people quote him from time to time, but I do try to ignore his pathetic trolls.

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2 hours ago, 167149 said:

I do wonder at and admire the truly selfless actions by the Auckland yacht brokers in trying to get the boat to NZ so as to maximise its sale price.

No doubt, in the interest of helping the family, the brokers are also going to forego their brokerage fee.

FKT

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8 hours ago, Cristoforo said:

If you hate and despise the politics and governing and ethics and morals  of your national leader, but are not so offended and ashamed to cash a $1200 welfare check he sends you

Has Trump turned communist?

Or

Is he unashamedly buying votes with public money as if he was governing a banana republic?

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'Auckland yacht brokers 36 degrees had urged the family to make the "utmost effort" to bring their boat to New Zealand because there were prospective buyers here - but none that could fly to Tahiti to view their yacht.'

 

Bullshit!!! Kiwis are free to leave their country whenever they choose and go where ever they choose...and free to come back subject to quarantine....

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10 hours ago, Panoramix said:
19 hours ago, Cristoforo said:

If you hate and despise the politics and governing and ethics and morals  of your national leader, but are not so offended and ashamed to cash a $1200 welfare check he sends you

Has Trump turned communist?

Or

Is he unashamedly buying votes with public money as if he was governing a banana republic?

Neither. The dumbass stalker is simply looking for shit to fling at me.

Monkey's gotta fling poo, it's his nature.

He frequently gropes for anything he thinks might be a turd to lob at me.

 

 

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9 hours ago, Cisco said:

'Auckland yacht brokers 36 degrees had urged the family to make the "utmost effort" to bring their boat to New Zealand because there were prospective buyers here - but none that could fly to Tahiti to view their yacht.'

 

Bullshit!!! Kiwis are free to leave their country whenever they choose and go where ever they choose...and free to come back subject to quarantine....

And I can tell you first hand that the market for big, bluewater cruising boats without the TIE paid on them isn't really here in NZ. Not at all. The market is international, primarily, and there have been few serious inquiries from Kiwis on mine.

They are WAY better bringing the boat to Papeete at the moment, because people can fly there.

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14 hours ago, Panoramix said:

Has Trump turned communist?

Or

Is he unashamedly buying votes with public money as if he was governing a banana republic?

It was a welfare stimulus plan due to CoVid. The US Govt automatically sent  every needy unemployed destitute person  $1200 a few months ago based on their tax returns. Trump put his name on the check on the memo line which was unnecessary. The checks are also officially signed by the Treasury Secretary.  There is another $1200 stimulus welfare check coming in a few weeks when it’s approved by Congress.  BJ said on this forum he received and cashed one. Just wondering what he spent it on. Maybe a case of Stonyridge Cabernet and a NZ lamb roast? A new halyard? Ice maker? 
Or dried beans and hard tack?

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7 hours ago, Cristoforo said:

Govt automatically sent  every needy unemployed destitute person  $1200 a few months ago based on their tax returns. Trump put his name on the check on the memo line which was unnecessary.

It isn't only "needy unemployed " people. Here there were stories in the newspapers of French people receiving the cheque because they had US links.

IMHO he's just trying to buy votes. If it was actually a welfare check, he wouldn't put his name on it.

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47 minutes ago, Panoramix said:

It isn't only "needy unemployed " people. Here there were stories in the newspapers of French people receiving the cheque because they had US links.

IMHO he's just trying to buy votes. If it was actually a welfare check, he wouldn't put his name on it.

Christoforo is full of shit and lying, as always. But as a serial liar, he knows it is much more complicated to clarify the truth than tell a lie and most people don't want to hear the details.

But he is telling you that people making up to $99,000 a year ($198,000 household) are "needy, unemployed destitute" people or some such stupidity.

------

The Truth:

Congress, not Trump, authorized a $1,200 payment for "COVID-19 relief" to all Americans with an Adjusted Gross Income of up to $75,000. It phased out to zero if you made over $99,000. For couples/families, it was $150,000 total income, phasing out at $198,000 combined income. There were also some credits added on for dependent children.

Trump signed the bill into law, but it was passed by both houses of Congress before he did it.

It was not "welfare", nor was it for "destitute" or "unemployed" people. At a $150K phaseout, it was aimed right at everyone from upper middle class families on down.

If you e-filed for payments or refunds in the past, the funds were automatically deposited into the account you used for that. So there was no "depositing" for most of us, the money just showed up in our bank accounts without doing anything. If we didn't want it, we'd have to figure out how to give it back to the government, which is more difficult to do that you'd think.

However, it was given in the form of a refundable tax credit. Which means in essence what they do is say "We're reducing your next year's taxes by $1,200 and giving you the money now." In other words, if you didn't take the payment, you basically agreed to pay more tax next year because you were declining the tax credit everyone qualified for.

If you didn't e-file and have the account link setup, you were mailed a check. What Trump did was delay the processing of the physical checks to they could be printed with his signature on them. This generally isn't done, tax refund checks which are mailed were usually signed by the Secretary of the Treasury, or some high level functionary in the Federal accounting system. Trump delayed the checks to add his signature, so he could pretend he was mailing some people the money himself.

According to shit-for-brains, 93.6% of Americans are "needy, destitute and unemployed."

image.png.5c94d5c875b63272e314d34c526ef08b.png

NOTE: I "live" in the U.S., as I travel on a visitor visa and have never established a tax domicile anywhere outside the U.S. by getting a residence or work visa.

------------------

But that won't stop the pathetic monkey from trying to fling poo. If he made more than $200K last year as a household, he didn't get the money (I'm assuming his wife didn't get sick of his grouchy ass and is still with him). So maybe he's grousing about it, not sure what. He seems to think I shouldn't have qualified just because I'm me, but the IRS doesn't hate me like he does so the deposit came through.

The only other way he'd not have gotten anything was to be someone else's dependent (even though he had to have his parents sign for his mortgage when he was a married adult, that doesn't make him a dependent), or make so little money he wasn't required to file a tax return.

 

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4 hours ago, B.J. Porter said:

If we didn't want it, we'd have to figure out how to give it back to the government, which is more difficult to do that you'd think.

No joke. I'm employed and felt guilty about getting the money. The only thing I could figure out to do, was write a check to the Treasury as a "gift" and then be stuck paying more tax next year.

https://www.fiscal.treasury.gov/public/gifts-to-government.html

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57 minutes ago, Ajax said:

No joke. I'm employed and felt guilty about getting the money. The only thing I could figure out to do, was write a check to the Treasury as a "gift" and then be stuck paying more tax next year.

https://www.fiscal.treasury.gov/public/gifts-to-government.html

You or the above mentioned fucktard whore make believe you have no options. If someone really felt 'guilty' they  could simply take the money and donate it to a worthy charity of their choosing.  Pay it forward.  Like 'Christians for Hungry Yachties', the Catholic charities like Knights of Columbus,  Operation Rescue or even Joe Biden's campaign, and still have your tax credit next year instead of buying one month's supply of chocolate frosted donuts. 

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My desire was to keep the money in the Treasury but yeah, I could have donated it I guess.

I like to donate food or donate to local food pantries to buy food. So many charities are sketchy as hell these days that much of the donated funds never reaches its intended recipients. Speaking as a Catholic, the church absolutely does NOT need my money.

The hate is strong within you, dude. You should switch to decaf.

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6 hours ago, Panoramix said:

It isn't only "needy unemployed " people. Here there were stories in the newspapers of French people receiving the cheque because they had US links.

IMHO he's just trying to buy votes. If it was actually a welfare check, he wouldn't put his name on it.

Merriam-Webster Definition of welfare
a: aid in the form of money or necessities for those in need
b: an agency or program through which such aid is distributed

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2 hours ago, Ajax said:

No joke. I'm employed and felt guilty about getting the money. The only thing I could figure out to do, was write a check to the Treasury as a "gift" and then be stuck paying more tax next year.

https://www.fiscal.treasury.gov/public/gifts-to-government.html

i will release you of your guild, if you send me the money.

You need a fancy piece of paper for your guilt release? Or is this good enough?

 

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10 minutes ago, gewoon ik said:

i will release you of your guild, if you send me the money.

You need a fancy piece of paper for your guilt release? Or is this good enough?

 

It's sitting in my accounts where I will simply hand it back to the government at tax filing time.

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10 minutes ago, Ajax said:

It's sitting in my accounts where I will simply hand it back to the government at tax filing time.

Oh, you capitalist pig, with your interest bearing passive income economic excess taken from the productive classes! 

Slowing down the velocity of money with your excess savings to boot!

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1 minute ago, Elegua said:

Oh, you capitalist pig, with your interest bearing passive income economic excess taken from the productive classes! 

I'm glad you used the sarcasm font because everyone knows that savings accounts have a nil interest rate right now. I'm practically paying the bank to hold my money, not the other way 'round.  The underside of my mattress has a better return.

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2 minutes ago, Ajax said:

I'm glad you used the sarcasm font because everyone knows that savings accounts have a nil interest rate right now. I'm practically paying the bank to hold my money, not the other way 'round.  The underside of my mattress has a better return.

Yeah, I feel less guilty about dumping money into a hole in the sea. 

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1 hour ago, Ajax said:

The hate is strong within you, dude. You should switch to decaf.

Wait, you don't have him on Ignore? I thought everyone did.

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17 minutes ago, IStream said:

Wait, you don't have him on Ignore? I thought everyone did.

Well I do now!

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Saw a funny bit in the gaurdian, seabird made it from AK to new Zealand non stop in 11 days!! Set a non-stop bird flight record.  Was crazy that they don't think they sleep and fly nonstop up to 55mph.  They think they have some internal nav thing going on as well, you can see the bird make a hard turn from new Caledonia to get back on track to NZ.

Apparently it's the place to go for animals and cruisers alike in these times...

 

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28 minutes ago, SASSAFRASS said:

Saw a funny bit in the gaurdian, seabird made it from AK to new Zealand non stop in 11 days!! Set a non-stop bird flight record.  Was crazy that they don't think they sleep and fly nonstop up to 55mph.  They think they have some internal nav thing going on as well, you can see the bird make a hard turn from new Caledonia to get back on track to NZ.

Apparently it's the place to go for animals and cruisers alike in these times...

 

Tracking technology has become incredibly small, lightweight and energy efficient. Scientists are now putting tracking devices on birds and other flying animals that before, would never have been able to carry them without being negatively impacted.  The light being shed on the habits and migratory behavior some of these cryptic creatures is absolutely incredible.

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Just now, Ajax said:

Tracking technology has become incredibly small, lightweight and energy efficient. Scientists are now putting tracking devices on birds and other flying animals that before, would never have been able to carry them without being negatively impacted.  The light being shed on the habits and migratory behavior some of these cryptic creatures is absolutely incredible.

if only that would have been possible in King Arthur's days, the african sparrow conundrum might have been avoided !

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2 hours ago, Ajax said:

Tracking technology has become incredibly small, lightweight and energy efficient. Scientists are now putting tracking devices on birds and other flying animals that before, would never have been able to carry them without being negatively impacted.  The light being shed on the habits and migratory behavior some of these cryptic creatures is absolutely incredible.

I know it's a big hornet, but it is still a really small tracking device

201013185305-02-murder-hornet-exlarge-16

The idea being to follow the signal back to the nest...and end them all

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