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1 minute ago, Cisco said:

Meanwhile, in the NZ case , plane loads of Indians who happen to have NZ passports arrive in NZ on a daily basis... last week 2 Air India 'planes brought in 14 covid cases into Auckland.....

 

Were all these people caught in  India  when on a fortnight visit to see  Gran? Or were they sucking on the Kiwi social security teat while lying on a Goa beach for six months of the year?

Much the same in Oz I would wager... people who have legal right to stay where they are but also have an Oz passport... suddenly deciding Oz is a safer bet...

The holiday makers came home months ago...

 

Fuck the lot of them... the poms,  the lebs, the dagos and the abdabs.... fuck the lot of them with dual citizenship..

Sung  to the tune of 'There's a Clan Boat just leaving Bombay'.... sort of...

The holiday makers, maybe. What about all those Aussies with jobs, contracts, rental agreements et al?

Friend of mine was lucky - he was in Australia when the shit hit the fan. Normally he'd be working on a rig tender or barge in the Middle East. Can't get back to work now, crews there can't get home, some won't be able to get back if they do.

It's a bit more nuanced than you're making out.

And FWIW my mate is an Old Australian, born in Lightning Ridge, not a blow-in. Lots of others too. I'm very, very grateful my youngest daughter came home from her travels last Christmas. She was going to stay o/s for a further 12 months.

As for dual citizenship, that's another can of worms and there I basically agree with you. We shouldn't permit it. You can stay a citizen of another country and have permanent residency, or you can apply for Australian citizenship and surrender your previous one. At least this virus has slowed down the Aussies desperately trying to qualify for an Irish citizenship so as to get entree to the EU.

PDW

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57 minutes ago, Fah Kiew Tu said:

However, the fact remains that cruising yachties simply do not rate and will not rate. You are not a priority and you won't be one any time soon.

Any of you in a country prepared to allow you to stay - STFU, keep your heads down, play nice and do your best to police the arsehole contingent, because you really don't want to piss off the authorities in this environment. Not unless you fancy doing a non-stop passage back to the USA anyway.

Absolute truth.

The subjects of this thread...are not well regarded in the cruising community I'm in contact for these reasons.

New Zealand has been fantastic and quite welcoming to us here, and we're very grateful for how they've been. It's honestly difficult to see my own country being 1/100th as accommodating as NZ has been to us.

Which is why we're all so puzzled why people would leave just because it's not summer.

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3 minutes ago, Fah Kiew Tu said:

The holiday makers, maybe. ...

As for dual citizenship, that's another can of worms and there I basically agree with you. We shouldn't permit it. You can stay a citizen of another country and have permanent residency, or you can apply for Australian citizenship and surrender your previous one. At least this virus has slowed down the Aussies desperately trying to qualify for an Irish citizenship so as to get entree to the EU.

PDW

No... the holiday makers came home months ago.... now it is same same Lebanon in 2006... Australia had to evacuate 20,000 'Australians' - Canada 40,000.

99% were people who were rorting the system.... bonzer deal ... Australian age pension while sitting on beach in Beruit.

I thought they had changed the rules since then..

 

Don't knock dual citizenship... works for me.... ( visa issues in SA ... saved lots of $$$$ over the years )  but I accept that if I am in country A and end up in the slammer country B will not assist me ..

'Irish citizenship so as to get entree to the EU.'  What exactly is that? Escargots con Pappas... :)

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12 minutes ago, Fah Kiew Tu said:

As for dual citizenship, that's another can of worms and there I basically agree with you. We shouldn't permit it. You can stay a citizen of another country and have permanent residency, or you can apply for Australian citizenship and surrender your previous one. At least this virus has slowed down the Aussies desperately trying to qualify for an Irish citizenship so as to get entree to the EU.

I think most of the western world allows dual citizenship, and almost everywhere in the Commonwealth.

I think it depends on the 2nd passport some places, but I think there are treaties about this that can't just be walked from.

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1 minute ago, Cisco said:

No... the holiday makers came home months ago.... now it is same same Lebanon in 2006... Australia had to evacuate 20,000 'Australians' - Canada 40,000.

99% were people who were rorting the system.... bonzer deal ... Australian age pension while sitting on beach in Beruit.

I thought they had changed the rules since then..

 

Don't knock dual citizenship... works for me.... ( visa issues in SA ... saved lots of $$$$ over the years )  but I accept that if I am in country A and end up in the slammer country B will not assist me ..

'Irish citizenship so as to get entree to the EU.'  What exactly is that? Escargots con Pappas... :)

You're missing the point - the holiday makers came home, a large contingent of Aussie expats WORKING OVERSEAS had commitments that they couldn't just walk away from.

Been there myself, got lucky. I was working in Tucson until literally 3 days before 9/11. Had I not returned when I did, I would have been stuck for a while.

FKT

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4 minutes ago, B.J. Porter said:

 

Which is we we're so puzzled why people would leave just because it's not summer.

I refer you to Post # 1... it's because they are dumb...

4 minutes ago, B.J. Porter said:

 

 

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4 minutes ago, Cisco said:

No... the holiday makers came home months ago.... now it is same same Lebanon in 2006... Australia had to evacuate 20,000 'Australians' - Canada 40,000.

99% were people who were rorting the system.... bonzer deal ... Australian age pension while sitting on beach in Beruit.

I thought they had changed the rules since then..

AFAIK you've a max of 6 weeks o/s before the pension stops if you're on an old age pension. Superannuation pension, no limit.

AFAIK. Not personally affected but that's what a mate of mine says and he's on the pension.

So you can go for a holiday but not live o/s.

FKT

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5 minutes ago, Fah Kiew Tu said:

AFAIK you've a max of 6 weeks o/s before the pension stops if you're on an old age pension. Superannuation pension, no limit.

AFAIK. Not personally affected but that's what a mate of mine says and he's on the pension.

So you can go for a holiday but not live o/s.

FKT

Sliding scale sort of a thing...

I am an Australian 'beneficiary' ... which is derogatory  kiwi speak for anyone on the welfare teat...

Jools gave me some sort of benefit worth I think about $300 a year.... paid quarterly ... used to be I had to go to town and  queue up with the poor people at Centrelink every time I came back from OS to explain my behavior... now automated and extended to 3 months O/S... my last quarterly payment was I think $9.68

Used to be that for pension purposes your primary residence was not part of the 'means test' for the pension... spend 12 months out of the country and it is now  an asset and income is 'deemed'.

The above does not apply  to me... despite being a 'rural poor' subsistence farmer  :)

Many of the people I know ... children of friends' childrens' friends  -  would be staying overseas in normal circumstances but want to come back to Oz simply because they want to be  home with mum... 

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22 minutes ago, B.J. Porter said:

New Zealand has been fantastic and quite welcoming to us here, and we're very grateful for how they've been. It's honestly difficult to see my own country being 1/100th as accommodating as NZ has been to us.

I love time in NZ too.  Have friends with a holiday house in the South Island we can use anytime but haven't really taken advantage of.  Most there will gladly house swap with Queenslanders I have discovered.

In contrast, I toured across the US in 2005 in a very naive state and that was a good thing.  I moved about expecting the locals to be ... well, good people and they were generally.  But in the time since my understanding of America has changed, I would no longer feel comfortable there, I would be a little paranoid perhaps.  A lot has happened.

 

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30 minutes ago, astro said:

I would no longer feel comfortable there, I would be a little paranoid perhaps.

You aren't the only one.

It was kind of weird being back there in FL a few months ago.

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3 hours ago, astro said:

I love time in NZ too.  Have friends with a holiday house in the South Island we can use anytime but haven't really taken advantage of.  Most there will gladly house swap with Queenslanders I have discovered.

In contrast, I toured across the US in 2005 in a very naive state and that was a good thing.  I moved about expecting the locals to be ... well, good people and they were generally.  But in the time since my understanding of America has changed, I would no longer feel comfortable there, I would be a little paranoid perhaps.  A lot has happened.

 

I live here and I feel the same way. When I was younger, I thought the "deplorable" contingent was maybe 10% of the population. After GWB was re-elected, I thought it might be higher but wasn't sure how big. After the last election and since I changed careers (temporarily) outside of science, I realize that it's closer to 40%. 

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4 hours ago, IStream said:

I live here and I feel the same way. When I was younger, I thought the "deplorable" contingent was maybe 10% of the population. After GWB was re-elected, I thought it might be higher but wasn't sure how big. After the last election and since I changed careers (temporarily) outside of science, I realize that it's closer to 40%. 

Take it to PA, please.

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Perfectly valid point in keeping with the topic - no need to take it to PA. The thread is called "American Dumbass", which in the case of obnoxious right-wing gun-loving sailboat cruisers, is going to be one of the 40% who voted for Drumpf and still support him.

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43 minutes ago, Guvacine said:

Perfectly valid point in keeping with the topic - no need to take it to PA. The thread is called "American Dumbass", which in the case of obnoxious right-wing gun-loving sailboat cruisers, is going to be one of the 40% who voted for Drumpf and still support him.

The subject of this thread is a thoroughly deplorable individual ....you might even put him in a basket of his type.

But we might consider applying some nuance in categorizing right wingers, gun lovers, sailboat cruisers and the 41.6% who voted for trump.

Not all gun lovers are gun toting, gun brandishing, irresponsible jerks. Many of them store, transport and enjoy their weapons responsibly...others not so much

Not all right wingers or at least conservatives are fans of the orange narcissist...although more of them could speak up for their beliefs and values certainly some have, and a growing number.

Well sailboat cruisers ...are an odd lot covering a wide range of saints and sinners.

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If Karl Jung was correct, we are all capable of being deplorable, it’s just that some of us have learned about goodness and are prepared to work to stay good...

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Interesting getting out of the us finally.  Back in a more international group.  So many assumptions about people from the US good and bad mostly false.  Crazy times for sure.  Just need five years with no internet and maybe sanity will prevail.

Boat I was going to deliver is through the canal and getting ready to jump off for Fiji.  They have all their stuff squared away, I guess you need a AIS transceiver if you don't want to quarentine in addition to the neg PCR for crew.  Going to be a long haul hope they have a good trip.

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8 hours ago, IStream said:

I live here and I feel the same way. When I was younger, I thought the "deplorable" contingent was maybe 10% of the population. After GWB was re-elected, I thought it might be higher but wasn't sure how big. After the last election and since I changed careers (temporarily) outside of science, I realize that it's closer to 40%. 

None of the people I know who voted for Trump are deplorable, they made a conscious choice he was the lesser of two weevils...

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21 minutes ago, olaf hart said:

None of the people I know who voted for Trump are deplorable, they made a conscious choice he was the lesser of two weevils...

How do they feel about things now? 

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Around 40+% of the populace still support Trump, despite the last 3+ years.  As someone who grew up with a Grandmother that taught at the Jung Institute in Zurich; I get the duality of life bit, but as she often reminded me, "One cannot have ones mind so open your brain falls out." I might give them a pass after the first time. But the second time is much harder to justify. 

The news flash really should be, "40% is a huge improvement over what it was".  

 

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8 minutes ago, Elegua said:

Around 40+% of the populace still support Trump, despite the last 3+ years.  As someone who grew up with a Grandmother that taught at the Jung Institute in Zurich; I get the duality of life bit, but as she often reminded me, "One cannot have ones mind so open your brain falls out." I might give them a pass after the first time. But the second time is much harder to justify. 

The news flash really should be, "40% is a huge improvement over what it was".  

 

I’ve had a very simple test the last two years. i give one very simple straight forward policy - indiscriminate separation of child from accompanying adult, putting kids in detention without specific protection from OTHER adults & undocumented adoptions (human trafficking basically). 
 

If the response is “this is great by design” then it is pretty straightforward what kind of person that is. 

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2 hours ago, Guvacine said:

Perfectly valid point in keeping with the topic - no need to take it to PA. The thread is called "American Dumbass", which in the case of obnoxious right-wing gun-loving sailboat cruisers, is going to be one of the 40% who voted for Drumpf and still support him.

Fine. Eat a bag of dicks.

Cruising Anarchy needs partisan politics like the Pope needs a bowling trophy. But hey, have it your way.

Anyone who hates on a large percentage of their fellow citizens is a douche.

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6 minutes ago, Cruisin Loser said:

Fine. Eat a bag of dicks.

Cruising Anarchy needs partisan politics like the Pope needs a bowling trophy. But hey, have it your way.

Anyone who hates on a large percentage of their fellow citizens is a douche.

Aren’t you the guy who brought up antifa in an orca thread 

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1 hour ago, olaf hart said:

If Karl Jung was correct, we are all capable of being deplorable, it’s just that some of us have learned about goodness and are prepared to work to stay good...

You sleep better and don't have to keep track of so many lies.

8 more days and I can go out to my boat. Fixing stuff and working on the dinghies while I wait it out.

Incidentally IIRC you mentioned some time ago in another thread a Swanson nesting f/g dinghy. Well, I found one for sale in Sydney & bought it. It needs a bit of repair work but looks pretty reasonable. I plan on weighing each dinghy - aluminium 8', Chameleon glass/ply and Swanson. Be interesting to see the results.

FKT

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1 minute ago, Miffy said:

Aren’t you the guy who brought up antifa in an orca thread 

No. Never mentioned them. Did make a joke about the Orcas, might have gone over your head.

I blame BJ for starting this political shit. It needs to be quarantined to the PA asylum. If you want to talk politics, go there.

This is a place to talk sailing, not politics or your particular intolerance and bigotry.

If you think anyone with different political views is deplorable, then you are the hater, not them. 

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27 minutes ago, Fah Kiew Tu said:

You sleep better and don't have to keep track of so many lies.

8 more days and I can go out to my boat. Fixing stuff and working on the dinghies while I wait it out.

Incidentally IIRC you mentioned some time ago in another thread a Swanson nesting f/g dinghy. Well, I found one for sale in Sydney & bought it. It needs a bit of repair work but looks pretty reasonable. I plan on weighing each dinghy - aluminium 8', Chameleon glass/ply and Swanson. Be interesting to see the results.

FKT

We picked up an alloy Savage Tern while you were away, and have a couple of 10’ Purdons and a widened Bolger Nymph I built, so we could have a weigh in..

Have had two Swanson Snugs, the originals were built like tanks..

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17 hours ago, Cisco said:

99% were people who were rorting the system.... bonzer deal ... Australian age pension while sitting on beach in Beruit.

Not trying to be argumentative here, but I always thought the aged pension was based on taxes paid during one's working life. Why does it matter if one chose to spend one's retirement elsewhere, where one's meagre pension dollar might go a little further. 

It certainly seems to have been a pretty attractive option for UK pensioners choosing to see out their retirements in places like Portugal and Spain (pre Brexit, at least). Why is this a "rort" per se?

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1 hour ago, Weyalan said:

Not trying to be argumentative here, but I always thought the aged pension was based on taxes paid during one's working life. Why does it matter if one chose to spend one's retirement elsewhere, where one's meagre pension dollar might go a little further. 

It certainly seems to have been a pretty attractive option for UK pensioners choosing to see out their retirements in places like Portugal and Spain (pre Brexit, at least). Why is this a "rort" per se?

My Canadian pension pays out anywhere. We choose to stay here, for the time being.

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4 hours ago, Cruisin Loser said:

No. Never mentioned them. Did make a joke about the Orcas, might have gone over your head.

I blame BJ for starting this political shit. It needs to be quarantined to the PA asylum. If you want to talk politics, go there.

This is a place to talk sailing, not politics or your particular intolerance and bigotry.

If you think anyone with different political views is deplorable, then you are the hater, not them. 

You might want to review the thread and see where politics came in before you start assigning blame.

I pointed out that I thought they were being idiots, and said nothing about their politics in the OP.

What you infer from that is on you, not me.

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1 hour ago, Weyalan said:

Not trying to be argumentative here, but I always thought the aged pension was based on taxes paid during one's working life.

 

Nope. AFAIK, Australian citizen, reached pensionable age, assets under a threshold. That's it. Nothing to do with how much tax you've paid. You can be on a disability benefit or unemployment then transition to an old age pension.

I think the argument went that as it was basically a handout in most cases, not putting the money back into the local economy was a bad thing.

I don't have a position on it really, I can see both arguments.

FKT

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30 minutes ago, Fah Kiew Tu said:

Nope. AFAIK, Australian citizen, reached pensionable age, assets under a threshold. That's it. Nothing to do with how much tax you've paid. You can be on a disability benefit or unemployment then transition to an old age pension.

I think the argument went that as it was basically a handout in most cases, not putting the money back into the local economy was a bad thing.

I don't have a position on it really, I can see both arguments.

FKT

Interesting. In the UK a portion of you taxes is taken (in the form of National Insurance contributions) and this is what contributes to your aged pension. I guess I had always assumed it was the same here in Australia. Colour me wrong. So apparently Canada and UK don't care where you spend your pension, Australia does. I wonder which stance if more usual. 

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4 hours ago, Weyalan said:

Not trying to be argumentative here, but I always thought the aged pension was based on taxes paid during one's working life. Why does it matter if one chose to spend one's retirement elsewhere, where one's meagre pension dollar might go a little further. 

It certainly seems to have been a pretty attractive option for UK pensioners choosing to see out their retirements in places like Portugal and Spain (pre Brexit, at least). Why is this a "rort" per se?

Depends on the country. I'm only familiar with US and Australia.

In the US the rough model is you pay into social security while working and get paid back once you retire wherever you live sort of based on what you put in. You can supplement that with personal saving using various mechanisms such as 401Ks, IRAs etc.

In Australia everyone pays taxes while working and must contribute to a superannuation fund (currently 9.5% paid by employer plus optional personal contributions). Once you retire you withdraw from your personal super account (similar to a US 401K) and if you are resident in Australia and need additional financial support (means tested) you get the age pension funded by current tax payers.

So Australia has compulsory retirement saving (individual account) plus an aged pension safety net for residents. US has compulsory retirement saving (shared account underfunded) plus personal retirement saving. I'm sure I've oversimplified it, but they are just different models.

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10 hours ago, hobot said:

ThIs ChIcKa iS cRa CrA

_DSC1831_KLWUVCZJVG.jpg

 

 

I completely agree but prefer that you tell her, not me.

M’kay?

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Australia.... your 'super' is your compulsory savings... your money.

The age pension as stated above is payed out of general revenue.

Lets say you have weaseled your way into Australia with your spouse at age 56.... spouse works on minimum + 10% down at Maccas.... you stay home looking after the grandkids. Ten years later the pair of you qualify for the means tested age pension ... you have a house your kids bought you but bugger all else of note apart from a boat.

So now the government will give the pair of you $A33,732 a year for life... indexed.

For quite a while people were getting onto the gravy train and then buggering orf back to Bombay....

Can't do that anymore.......they changed the rules.

Meanwhile someone aged 66 who has lived in Australia all their life... always in a good job.. paying big bucks in tax.... now along with house etc has $A2,000,000 in savings..... well they get SFA from the government apart from a Commonwealth Seniors Health Card... cheap pills and about $A70 a quarter.

https://moneysmart.gov.au/retirement-income/age-pension-and-government-benefits

NZ is much the same but there it is not means tested. I think they can leave the country for 6 months out of 12 and maintain full payment. What they do do however... lets say you have a UK pension of $NZ10,000.... your NZ pension is reduced by that $10,000......

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4 minutes ago, Cisco said:

Australia.... your 'super' is your compulsory savings... your money.

The age pension as stated above is payed out of general revenue.

Lets say you have weaseled your way into Australia with your spouse at age 56.... spouse works on minimum + 10% down at Maccas.... you stay home looking after the grandkids. Ten years later the pair of you qualify for the means tested age pension ... you have a house your kids bought you but bugger all else of note apart from a boat.

So now the government will give the pair of you $A33,732 a year for life... indexed.

For quite a while people were getting onto the gravy train and then buggering orf back to Bombay....

Can't do that anymore.......they changed the rules.

Meanwhile someone aged 66 who has lived in Australia all their life... always in a good job.. paying big bucks in tax.... now along with house etc has $A2,000,000 in savings..... well they get SFA from the government apart from a Commonwealth Seniors Health Card... cheap pills and about $A70 a quarter.

https://moneysmart.gov.au/retirement-income/age-pension-and-government-benefits

NZ is much the same but there it is not means tested. I think they can leave the country for 6 months out of 12 and maintain full payment. What they do do however... lets say you have a UK pension of $NZ10,000.... your NZ pension is reduced by that $10,000......

Pretty much and as one of those workers who've paid a lot of tax and have my own superannuation stream plus assets therefore no pension or concessional health card - I don't have a problem with it. I can support myself, therefore I do.

Yes the situation WRT late age migrants is as you say and it's a rort. We should have reformed family reunion laws long ago, but that's an argument for a different time and place.

FKT

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31 minutes ago, Cisco said:

Australia.... your 'super' is your compulsory savings... your money.

The age pension as stated above is payed out of general revenue.

Lets say you have weaseled your way into Australia with your spouse at age 56.... spouse works on minimum + 10% down at Maccas.... you stay home looking after the grandkids. Ten years later the pair of you qualify for the means tested age pension ... you have a house your kids bought you but bugger all else of note apart from a boat.

So now the government will give the pair of you $A33,732 a year for life... indexed.

For quite a while people were getting onto the gravy train and then buggering orf back to Bombay....

Can't do that anymore.......they changed the rules.

Meanwhile someone aged 66 who has lived in Australia all their life... always in a good job.. paying big bucks in tax.... now along with house etc has $A2,000,000 in savings..... well they get SFA from the government apart from a Commonwealth Seniors Health Card... cheap pills and about $A70 a quarter.

https://moneysmart.gov.au/retirement-income/age-pension-and-government-benefits

NZ is much the same but there it is not means tested. I think they can leave the country for 6 months out of 12 and maintain full payment. What they do do however... lets say you have a UK pension of $NZ10,000.... your NZ pension is reduced by that $10,000......

A pension is just that, it’s not a retirement plan, it’s a safety net for people who need it.

I don’t mind paying my way...

Agree with you on the OS stuff by the way, you forgot to include faking an accident so you could milk third party insurers or workcover along the way..

Once caught a taxi from Tullamarine to the city,  the Greek driver was telling me his brother was so stupid that when he burnt down his fish and chip shop he got caught...

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13 hours ago, Cruisin Loser said:

No. Never mentioned them. Did make a joke about the Orcas, might have gone over your head.

In the Killer whale! thread, your" joke" was:

16 hours ago, Cruisin Loser said:

They're mostly peaceful protesters.

I get it.  Trump is a despicable liar, con man, criminal and traitor to his country.  ANYONE who supports him is a deplorable fucking idiot.  It's not too late to come to your senses and vote him out.

"Have you no sense of decency, sir? At long last, have you left no sense of decency?"
-- Joseph N. Welch to Senator Joseph McCarthy

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13 hours ago, Cruisin Loser said:

 

Anyone who hates on a large percentage of their fellow citizens is a douche.

And anyone who supports, in any way, the people responsible for the US having 22% of the world's covid deaths is morally corrupt and was raised badly, despite the appearance of politeness and civility they foster. 

 

 

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2 minutes ago, MR.CLEAN said:

And anyone who supports, in any way, the people responsible for the US having 22% of the world's covid deaths is morally corrupt and was raised badly, despite the appearance of politeness and civility they foster. 

 

 

I let people’s conduct determine how I feel about them and if someone hates brown ppl, steals kids from them, thinks fascism and white supremacy is okay? I’ll judge the fuck out of them for their conduct even if they’re born American. 

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On 9/12/2020 at 10:48 PM, Miffy said:

And how's UIUC's program working out so far? Not well.

The issue is not something physicists comprehend because they don't routinely expect human behavior to be unpredictable and dishonest or dishonorable. If NZ starts allowing cruisers to enter via covid testing on the assumption that transit time = incubation time; then they need to write a policy that delineates maximum speed, minimum range of last departure, verification/compliance matters.

And in the end - it becomes a question of... "why the fuck are we exposing ourselves to liability, risk and political damage for these assholes who voluntarily departed knowing full well what was coming because they didn't want to interrupt their several year long circumnavigation vacation?"

Actually pretty well despite the naivete of some of those who worked out the details. We had a spike in the third week, due to parties the first week, but the university laid down the law and now we are way down. Check out the site again if you don't believe me. Not one student into the hospital, all positives quarantined in one dorm (most already recovered and tested negative), contacts in another dorm for a week. So despite 1400 positives the university is still functioning on a hybrid program of part online and part in person, with the vast majority of 37,000 students on campus. I'd say if they can keep this up till Thanksgiving it will be a success, and entirely due to the innovativeness of the faculty who figured out the rapid test, those who developed the required contact app, the vast majority of students who played by the rules, and finally the willingness of the admin to crack down on those who did not and initiated a two-week campus lockdown to tamp things down when the situation threatened to get out of control.

Remember that our university is not doing sampling, they are testing every student and staff member twice a week. Every single one. Just a shame that the rest of the country is so far behind.

 

Here's the relevant graph.

 

Screen Shot 2020-09-14 at 2.03.33 PM.png

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1 hour ago, TheDragon said:

Actually pretty well despite the naivete of some of those who worked out the details. We had a spike in the third week, due to parties the first week, but the university laid down the law and now we are way down. Check out the site again if you don't believe me. Not one student into the hospital, all positives quarantined in one dorm (most already recovered and tested negative), contacts in another dorm for a week. So despite 1400 positives the university is still functioning on a hybrid program of part online and part in person, with the vast majority of 37,000 students on campus. I'd say if they can keep this up till Thanksgiving it will be a success, and entirely due to the innovativeness of the faculty who figured out the rapid test, those who developed the required contact app, the vast majority of students who played by the rules, and finally the willingness of the admin to crack down on those who did not and initiated a two-week campus lockdown to tamp things down when the situation threatened to get out of control.

Remember that our university is not doing sampling, they are testing every student and staff member twice a week. Every single one. Just a shame that the rest of the country is so far behind.

 

Here's the relevant graph.

 

Screen Shot 2020-09-14 at 2.03.33 PM.png

Sounds pretty similar to the approach Bucknell is taking, though it' only 10% of the size. They're testing students every 10 days though, and had done a mix of on-line and in person classes. Some classes themselves are hybrid, I think my daughter has one class that's online of half the class at a time or something.

So far, so good but it's only September. They've got to make it to the week before Thanksgiving.

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11 hours ago, Fah Kiew Tu said:

Pretty much and as one of those workers who've paid a lot of tax and have my own superannuation stream plus assets therefore no pension or concessional health card - I don't have a problem with it. I can support myself, therefore I do.

Yes the situation WRT late age migrants is as you say and it's a rort. We should have reformed family reunion laws long ago, but that's an argument for a different time and place.

FKT

The Commonwealth Seniors Health Card is different to a concessional card. I heard of them by chance about 10/11 years ago.. at which time they were essentially not means tested..... didn't take assets into consideration or 'super' part of income.

Since then as they found old people were spending longer and longer out of the country they eased the 6 week limit all the way back to 6 months. Then they stuck a fuck it sticker on the whole business.... at 6 months its cancelled and if you reapply - or apply for a new one -  the means test is quite strict and that would be the end of my 80 cents  a day... 

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12 hours ago, Cisco said:

Australia.... your 'super' is your compulsory savings... your money.

The age pension as stated above is payed out of general revenue.

Lets say you have weaseled your way into Australia with your spouse at age 56.... spouse works on minimum + 10% down at Maccas.... you stay home looking after the grandkids. Ten years later the pair of you qualify for the means tested age pension ... you have a house your kids bought you but bugger all else of note apart from a boat.

So now the government will give the pair of you $A33,732 a year for life... indexed.

For quite a while people were getting onto the gravy train and then buggering orf back to Bombay....

Can't do that anymore.......they changed the rules.

Meanwhile someone aged 66 who has lived in Australia all their life... always in a good job.. paying big bucks in tax.... now along with house etc has $A2,000,000 in savings..... well they get SFA from the government apart from a Commonwealth Seniors Health Card... cheap pills and about $A70 a quarter.

https://moneysmart.gov.au/retirement-income/age-pension-and-government-benefits

NZ is much the same but there it is not means tested. I think they can leave the country for 6 months out of 12 and maintain full payment. What they do do however... lets say you have a UK pension of $NZ10,000.... your NZ pension is reduced by that $10,000......

Understand what you are saying, but its not black and white. There are plenty of good honest hard-working people out there who have lived, and worked, all their lives in Australia, paid taxes and who find themselves in their twilight years surviving on the aged pension. Given that the pension is really not much above the poverty line here, but can go a hell of a lot further elsewhere why should these non-bludging, non-rorting Aussies not be able to spend their pension where it goes further? I emphasise that I am not condoning people who are abusing or cheating the system at all, but not everyone is. 

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And once again, Americans show they are the dumbass.  

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25 minutes ago, Dogscout said:

And once again, Americans show they are the dumbass.  

You're over-generalizing. You simply can't make a blanket statement like that about a group of 330 million people.

As I mentioned above, about 2 in 5 of us are dumbasses. That's only 132 million people.

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59 minutes ago, Weyalan said:

Understand what you are saying, but its not black and white. There are plenty of good honest hard-working people out there who have lived, and worked, all their lives in Australia, paid taxes and who find themselves in their twilight years surviving on the aged pension. Given that the pension is really not much above the poverty line here, but can go a hell of a lot further elsewhere why should these non-bludging, non-rorting Aussies not be able to spend their pension where it goes further? I emphasise that I am not condoning people who are abusing or cheating the system at all, but not everyone is. 

Because it doesn't do *our* economy any good if they go off to Greece, the Philippines, Thailand or somewhere and spend the money there.

Sure it's better for them but not for the country that's paying them.

Whether it's of any significance economically is another question and frankly I doubt it. I've no opinion pro or con really. Were it up to me I'd probably have some sort of rule on the lines of, if you did 20 years gainful employment in Oz, go where you like in retirement. If you didn't, sure we'll pay you the pension so you don't starve, but you're not spending it overseas.

Shrug.

FKT

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2 hours ago, Fah Kiew Tu said:

Because it doesn't do *our* economy any good if they go off to Greece, the Philippines, Thailand or somewhere and spend the money there.

Sure it's better for them but not for the country that's paying them.

Whether it's of any significance economically is another question and frankly I doubt it. I've no opinion pro or con really. Were it up to me I'd probably have some sort of rule on the lines of, if you did 20 years gainful employment in Oz, go where you like in retirement. If you didn't, sure we'll pay you the pension so you don't starve, but you're not spending it overseas.

Shrug.

FKT

Perhaps you could balance it out by being a bit more welcoming to those of us who would like to visit your wonderful land.  I've visited twice and felt very welcome, but am disappointed at the closed borders, now that I wish to sail to your part of the world.

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Just now, TheDragon said:

Perhaps you could balance it out by being a bit more welcoming to those of us who would like to visit your wonderful land.  I've visited twice and felt very welcome, but am disappointed at the closed borders, now that I wish to sail to your part of the world.

Try again in late 2021 or 2022. Until then forget it.

We have in excess of 20,000 Australians overseas who'd like to get back and can't as we're only allowing a trickle of people in due to quarantine restrictions & processing.

You can't sail here & clear in. Are you prepared to pay say $10K for an air fare and another $3K for 2 weeks compulsory quarantine? Because that's pretty much the current cost.

FKT

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Small price to pay considering we've all saved way more than that by not going to restaurants for half a year

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45 minutes ago, MR.CLEAN said:

Small price to pay considering we've all saved way more than that by not going to restaurants for half a year

I didn't reduce my restaurant dining at all.

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23 minutes ago, MR.CLEAN said:

yeah but we ain't all shut ins

We are now, at least in the Western US.

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36 minutes ago, Ishmael said:

I didn't reduce my restaurant dining at all.

Hard to get below zero, isn't it?

FKT

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19 minutes ago, Trevor B said:

We are now, at least in the Western US.

Fair play.  Everything is open in Vermont but we are eating in for the most part even though there is 100% mask use here and no covid deaths since early august.

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51 minutes ago, MR.CLEAN said:

yeah but we ain't all shut ins

We cook good. Cooking's half the fun, and eating it is the other 60%. 

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On 9/13/2020 at 4:39 PM, olaf hart said:

None of the people I know who voted for Trump are deplorable, they made a conscious choice he was the lesser of two weevils...

And in so doing they made a deplorable choice.

They bought into a 20 year campaign of character assassination and were too deplorably lazy or ignorant to see through it.

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27 minutes ago, SloopJonB said:

And in so doing they made a deplorable choice.

They bought into a 20 year campaign of character assassination and were too deplorably lazy or ignorant to see through it.

Well you'd have to include me in the people who thought Hilary was a shit candidate, but I would have held my nose and voted for her in preference to Trump.

If I'd had a vote, which of course I didn't.

You know, when they talk about the lowest common denominator, there's no need to take it so literally on BOTH sides...

FKT

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3 minutes ago, Fah Kiew Tu said:

Well you'd have to include me in the people who thought Hilary was a shit candidate, but I would have held my nose and voted for her in preference to Trump.

If I'd had a vote, which of course I didn't.

You know, when they talk about the lowest common denominator, there's no need to take it so literally on BOTH sides...

FKT

I know fuck-nothing about American Politics, but it did amaze me that the Dems chose to run with the one person who Trump could possibly beat. Anyone else would have beaten him. Hell, they could have chosen a roll-topped desk with a nice potted plant on it and it would have got elected, but H Clinton was beatable and they ran with it... and got beat. Sigh 

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1 hour ago, Weyalan said:

I know fuck-nothing about American Politics

yes

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6 hours ago, Fah Kiew Tu said:

Try again in late 2021 or 2022. Until then forget it.

We have in excess of 20,000 Australians overseas who'd like to get back and can't as we're only allowing a trickle of people in due to quarantine restrictions & processing.

You can't sail here & clear in. Are you prepared to pay say $10K for an air fare and another $3K for 2 weeks compulsory quarantine? Because that's pretty much the current cost.

FKT

20,000 australians my left nut.... opportunists who happen to hold a 'strayan passport more likely....

And fuck the little darlings trying to get in..... I'm trying to get out....!

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2 hours ago, Weyalan said:

I know fuck-nothing about American Politics, ...

Nor do I, I don't pay a lot of attention to failed states... usually found at the back end of the alphabet.... Somalia, US, Yemen, Zimbabwe

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1 hour ago, Cisco said:

20,000 australians my left nut.... opportunists who happen to hold a 'strayan passport more likely....

And fuck the little darlings trying to get in..... I'm trying to get out....!

Yeah well you're in Victoria - in your situation I'd be trying to bail too. Anywhere else would be good.

I transited from Holbrook to Melbourne Pier and got on the Spirit to Tasmania without stopping except to take a piss. Had enough diesel in & on the truck to get home to south of Hobart. A week to go and then I can start prepping my boat. Plenty to do meanwhile though I've 3 projects stalled for want of simple stuff ATM. Fortunately there's another 50+ small projects waiting.

FKT

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It’s interesting to watch the Australian’s slag the US. I can’t think of many issues the US has that isn’t shared, at least in part.  Living in AsiaPac for 30+ yrs, I think I’ve seen some of the best and worst. 
 

In fairness to the US, we still wash our laundry in public. Which is why we have a thread on the topic. 

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12 hours ago, Weyalan said:

I know fuck-nothing about American Politics, but it did amaze me that the Dems chose to run with the one person who Trump could possibly beat. Anyone else would have beaten him. Hell, they could have chosen a roll-topped desk with a nice potted plant on it and it would have got elected, but H Clinton was beatable and they ran with it... and got beat. Sigh 

and apparently going the same route again this year...

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10 hours ago, Elegua said:

It’s interesting to watch the Australian’s slag the US. I can’t think of many issues the US has that isn’t shared, at least in part.  Living in AsiaPac for 30+ yrs, I think I’ve seen some of the best and worst. 
 

In fairness to the US, we still wash our laundry in public. Which is why we have a thread on the topic. 

Plenty of self-entitled Aussie dumb-arses for sure. I can't think, offhand, of any that are making sailing YouTube vids though.

And anyway, us Aussies will slag off anyone, including fellow Aussies, so don't feel special. Just ask LB15 or read the Australian sailing thread.

FKT

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5 minutes ago, Fah Kiew Tu said:

Plenty of self-entitled Aussie dumb-arses for sure. I can't think, offhand, of any that are making sailing YouTube vids though.

And anyway, us Aussies will slag off anyone, including fellow Aussies, so don't feel special. Just ask LB15 or read the Australian sailing thread.

FKT

How about Sailing Millennial Falcon? They seem like a bunch of plonkers.  That said some of my favorites are are from Oz. 

 

 

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2 minutes ago, Elegua said:

How about Sailing Millennial Falcon? They seem like a bunch of plonkers.  That said some of my favorites are are from Oz. 

 

 

Never watched any of their stuff so I'm happy to take your word for they're being dumb-arses.

FKT

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8 hours ago, Fah Kiew Tu said:

Plenty of self-entitled Aussie dumb-arses for sure. I can't think, offhand, of any that are making sailing YouTube vids though.

And anyway, us Aussies will slag off anyone, including fellow Aussies, so don't feel special. Just ask LB15 or read the Australian sailing thread.

FKT

How about the one that refuses to fly ensign? Dunno though is LaVag under French or Aussie flag.

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1 hour ago, Upp3 said:

How about the one that refuses to fly ensign? Dunno though is LaVag under French or Aussie flag.

Whose ensign and in whose country?

I don't fly one - or any club burgees either - in my home waters.

FKT

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34 minutes ago, Fah Kiew Tu said:

Whose ensign and in whose country?

I don't fly one - or any club burgees either - in my home waters.

FKT

I suppose French in Portugal, in case of LaVag. They got scolded by authorities for that in recent episode.

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20 hours ago, Elegua said:

It’s interesting to watch the Australian’s slag the US. I can’t think of many issues the US has that isn’t shared, at least in part.  Living in AsiaPac for 30+ yrs, I think I’ve seen some of the best and worst. 
 

In fairness to the US, we still wash our laundry in public. Which is why we have a thread on the topic. 

'Strayans are equal opportunity slaggers... it just happens to be your turn...

We used to stick it to the Poms.... however the UK is now just another end of the alphabet failed state.

You can't even get a rise out of the poor buggers these days...... and kiwis are like fish in a barrel....

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1 hour ago, Upp3 said:

I suppose French in Portugal, in case of LaVag. They got scolded by authorities for that in recent episode.

I've made my opinion clear on that previously. It's rude not to fly the host country's flag when in their waters if that's what they want. If La Vag is refusing to do so then I hope they get a really hard time when they get inspected.

FKT

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12 minutes ago, Fah Kiew Tu said:

It's rude not to fly the host country's flag when in their waters

try that in some Asian or African waters and see how you go...

 

not flying a courtesy flag I mean

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On 9/13/2020 at 7:49 AM, IStream said:

I live here and I feel the same way. When I was younger, I thought the "deplorable" contingent was maybe 10% of the population. After GWB was re-elected, I thought it might be higher but wasn't sure how big. After the last election and since I changed careers (temporarily) outside of science, I realize that it's closer to 40%. 

40%...and growing.  QAnon much? :-) :-)  A satanic cabal that, among other evil things, secretly rules America, kidnaps children and, yes, rapes them and drinks their blood for a life-giving chemical.  Ok...

Since this thread is about the topic of American dumbasses, it’s plain to see that, as Atlantic editor Adrienne LaFrance wrote recently, what we’re witnessing is the very troubling “mass rejection of reason,” as she eloquently terms it.  Great NPR interview she gave as well.  (And the truly bizarre thing about it all, is that it’s spreading overseas - just check on YouTube all the people “taking the oath” [#take the oath, #WEG1WGA, #digitalpatriots, etc] to QAnon (yesterday I came across a bunch from Spain, “Donde vamos uno, vamos todos” - i.e., where we go one, we go all...WTF?!?)

Anyway, dumbasses indeed, and growing by the week, and internationally...

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4 minutes ago, Jud - s/v Sputnik said:

40%...and growing.  QAnon much? :-) :-)  A satanic cabal that, among other evil things, secretly rules America, kidnaps children and, yes, rapes them and drinks their blood for a life-giving chemical.  Ok...

That is such complete and utter codswallop. Everyone knows that shape-shifting reptiles are running the planet. This other stuff is just disinformation.

FKT

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1 minute ago, Fah Kiew Tu said:

That is such complete and utter codswallop. Everyone knows that shape-shifting reptiles are running the planet. This other stuff is just disinformation.

FKT

I’m pretty sure Q has got the reptilian shape-shifter angle covered too :-).  
 

And the same Messiah (his last name begins with the letters “Tru”) will lead the Great Awakening (the Storm is coming...) and expose it all...

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19 hours ago, Fah Kiew Tu said:

Whose ensign and in whose country?

I don't fly one - or any club burgees either - in my home waters.

FKT

In the U.S. if your vessel is federally documented you're supposed to fly an ensign when you're moving.

If you have a state registration - common for smaller boats which will can never leave the country - it is not mandatory.

 

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12 minutes ago, B.J. Porter said:

In the U.S. if your vessel is federally documented you're supposed to fly an ensign when you're moving.

If you have a state registration - common for smaller boats which will can never leave the country - it is not mandatory.

 

Really? A law to fly the ensign? Or formality?

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2 hours ago, Jud - s/v Sputnik said:

40%...and growing.  QAnon much? :-) :-)  A satanic cabal that, among other evil things, secretly rules America, kidnaps children and, yes, rapes them and drinks their blood for a life-giving chemical.  Ok...

Since this thread is about the topic of American dumbasses, it’s plain to see that, as Atlantic editor Adrienne LaFrance wrote recently, what we’re witnessing is the very troubling “mass rejection of reason,” as she eloquently terms it.  Great NPR interview she gave as well.  (And the truly bizarre thing about it all, is that it’s spreading overseas - just check on YouTube all the people “taking the oath” [#take the oath, #WEG1WGA, #digitalpatriots, etc] to QAnon (yesterday I came across a bunch from Spain, “Donde vamos uno, vamos todos” - i.e., where we go one, we go all...WTF?!?)

Anyway, dumbasses indeed, and growing by the week, and internationally...

I blame it on Moronavirus...

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16 minutes ago, olaf hart said:

I blame it on Moronavirus...

Something is certainly sucking brains out of people and replacing them with porridge. What can cause such a total abandonment of rationality?

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3 hours ago, Fah Kiew Tu said:

That is such complete and utter codswallop. Everyone knows that shape-shifting reptiles are running the planet. This other stuff is just disinformation.

FKT

The lizard people have been running things for decades now. It was at least 20 years ago that my neighbours told me all about them.

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59 minutes ago, El Boracho said:

Really? A law to fly the ensign? Or formality?

Could be a formality, I think there was a law changed back in the 80s...

I know I'm supposed to fly it out of the country.

 

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34 minutes ago, Ishmael said:

Something is certainly sucking brains out of people and replacing them with porridge. What can cause such a total abandonment of rationality?

Just take a walk through a shopping mall, a lot of people live a long way away from the real world these days.

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5 minutes ago, olaf hart said:

Just take a walk through a shopping mall, a lot of people live a long way away from the real world these days.

Are you fucking insane? A shopping mall? I haven't been in a mall for donks.

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58 minutes ago, Ishmael said:

Are you fucking insane? A shopping mall? I haven't been in a mall for donks.

There are no real malls in Tassie, so that’s my excuse..

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1 hour ago, olaf hart said:

There are no real malls in Tassie, so that’s my excuse..

Plenty in Sydney. I made sure I didn't go into one. No point *asking* the reptiles to suck out your brains.

Really strange walking down George Street with virtually no people though.

The shopping list post quarantine is growing. OK I have M6 316 nylocks out on the boat but no M10x30 CSK socket head screws in 316.

FKT

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1 hour ago, Fah Kiew Tu said:

Plenty in Sydney. I made sure I didn't go into one. No point *asking* the reptiles to suck out your brains.

Really strange walking down George Street with virtually no people though.

The shopping list post quarantine is growing. OK I have M6 316 nylocks out on the boat but no M10x30 CSK socket head screws in 316.

FKT

I used to work in a metal shop in charge of the store. Being fabrication we had to carry fasteners from everything from 1/4" to 3/4", UNF and UNC. We ended up putting a cage around the whole store in the middle of the workshop as there was some serious home projects consuming a veritable shit ton of stock.  

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