Greyhound37 72 #1 Posted July 6, 2020 looks like a Kirby profile. trailer is in nice shape. little bubble bath and off you go bottom is awesome Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
KC64000 11 #3 Posted July 6, 2020 probably Kirby 25. does it have running backstays? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Greyhound37 72 #4 Posted July 6, 2020 not sure on the running backs. looks much smaller than 30, 25 is about right. Hot looking boat with a very flat bottom and wide aft for the older design Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
magic1637 0 #5 Posted July 7, 2020 Looks a little bigger than what i had but the windows, hull and transom look just like a Mystic Mini Ton (Kirby 21) i used to own Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JimBowie 328 #6 Posted July 7, 2020 Reminds me of my old (and slow) Capri 25. Dear Butler, he couldn't design or build a boat that will ever catch a similar sized J. I know. I owned two of them (22 and 25). Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TJSoCal 129 #7 Posted July 7, 2020 Looks like Kirby lines, but if it is I don't think the stern pulpit is stock. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Greyhound37 72 #9 Posted July 7, 2020 Wavelength 24 it is! You are correct. PHRF of 160 ish she should be a scooter off the wind in a breeze. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Snow Guy 10 #10 Posted July 7, 2020 They're basically a scaled down version of a Schock 35. They do well in PHRF, but you need weight on the rail in over 10 knots of breeze. It is very tender upwind in a blow. Balances out around the course for a decent rating of 163 in LIS. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Retired BN 10 #11 Posted July 7, 2020 I'm thinking Kirby 30. Double spreader rig, Kirby 25 only has on set of spreaders. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
J Keeley 1 #12 Posted July 7, 2020 Not a Wavelength 24. Cabin top is wrong. Looks like a Kirby 25 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
12 metre 344 #13 Posted July 7, 2020 Doubt it's a K25. Transom too raked and trailing edge of K25 keel is swept aft a bit - this one is swept forward like on a W24. Too much crown on the cabin top to be a K25 as well. Rudder certainly looks more like one from a W24 and W24 had a double spreader rig. My best guess is a Wavelength 24 even though the cabin looks a little short. But I think it was already established by Greyhound37 that it is a W24. Below are the two from Sailboatdata for comparison: Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ordkhntr 11 #14 Posted July 7, 2020 4 hours ago, Greyhound37 said: Wavelength 24 it is! You are correct. PHRF of 160 ish she should be a scooter off the wind in a breeze. I used to race even against them in an Olson 25. If the wind was above 10-12kts we would routinely beat them. Any more than 10-12 and they would have to reduce sail. We could still carry our 155 genny. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CriticalPath 75 #15 Posted July 7, 2020 It's a Wavelength 24. Great boat, I owned #43 from 1988 to 1992. Schock redesigned the WL24's deck in/around 2005 - cockpit was 20" longer and much more user-friendly. Only a few built (and I seem to recall three of them were owned by a woman from Ohio?) so doesn't look like what most people remember. 3 hours ago, Snow Guy said: They're basically a scaled down version of a Schock 35. They do well in PHRF, but you need weight on the rail in over 10 knots of breeze. It is very tender upwind in a blow. Balances out around the course for a decent rating of 163 in LIS. You're smokin' stuff SG. Schock 35 was a Schock/Turner redesign of Shad Turner's original Santana 35. Wavelength 24 and 30 were MORC designs by Paul Lindenberg, Schock happened to build them, but the boats have no design lineage... Cheers! 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dolphinmaster 83 #16 Posted July 7, 2020 16 minutes ago, CriticalPath said: It's a Wavelength 24. Great boat, I owned #43 from 1988 to 1992. Schock redesigned the WL24's deck in/around 2005 - cockpit was 20" longer and much more user-friendly. Only a few built (and I seem to recall three of them were owned by a woman from Ohio?) so doesn't look like what most people remember. You're smokin' stuff SG. Schock 35 was a Schock/Turner redesign of Shad Turner's original Santana 35. Wavelength 24 and 30 were MORC designs by Paul Lindenberg, Schock happened to build them, but the boats have no design lineage... Cheers! As I recall, Paul built them but like the L22, the lines were originally by Bruce Kelly. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LarryE 40 #17 Posted July 7, 2020 Paul built 3, the rest were built by Schock. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CriticalPath 75 #18 Posted July 7, 2020 36 minutes ago, dolphinmaster said: As I recall, Paul built them but like the L22, the lines were originally by Bruce Kelly. I knew Kelley was involved with the 22 and Lee Creekmore drew the 26, but I'd thought Paul did the WLs (24, 28, and 30) himself... Cheers! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Greyhound37 72 #19 Posted July 7, 2020 A few boats down from the Wavelength 24 is this beauty. The Wavelength is pretty healthy just needs a bubble bath but this one is beat. Who can identify this one? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CriticalPath 75 #20 Posted July 7, 2020 10 minutes ago, Greyhound37 said: A few boats down from the Wavelength 24 is this beauty. The Wavelength is pretty healthy just needs a bubble bath but this one is beat. Who can identify this one? Mariah or G&S 27 Custom, a few built by Lindsay, a few by others I can't recall. A formidable MORC design in the mid-to-late 80s, a development of the S2 7.9SE program (Little Feat). Pigs At Sea, Lizzie B, and Insatiable come to mind... Cheers! 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
12 metre 344 #21 Posted July 7, 2020 2 hours ago, CriticalPath said: I knew Kelley was involved with the 22 and Lee Creekmore drew the 26, but I'd thought Paul did the WLs (24, 28, and 30) himself... Cheers! Yeah, the 24, 28, & 30 have a more family look to them, even down to the cabin, and most designers like to retain a signature look or styling element. Oh, and I don't think the 28 was called a Wavelength, it was a Lindenberg 28. And while the prototype to the 30 was named Wavelength, I think it only became known as the Wavelength 30 once Schock began production. Prior to that it was the Lindenberg 30. At least that's what the good people at Sailboatdata imply Always liked the look of the Lindenberg 28. Looked like quite a powered up ULDB. Sailboatdata says only 12 were built, which is more than I thought. But still very hard to find one Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
12 metre 344 #22 Posted July 7, 2020 9 minutes ago, CriticalPath said: Mariah or G&S 27 Custom, a few built by Lindsay, a few by others I can't recall. A formidable MORC design in the mid-to-late 80s. Pigs At Sea, Lizzie B, and Insatiable come to mind... Cheers! Yeah, that one was pretty easy. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CriticalPath 75 #23 Posted July 7, 2020 7 minutes ago, 12 metre said: Yeah, the 24, 28, & 30 have a more family look to them, even down to the cabin, and most designers like to retain a signature look or styling element. Oh, and I don't think the 28 was called a Wavelength, it was a Lindenberg 28. And while the prototype to the 30 was named Wavelength, I think it only became known as the Wavelength 30 once Schock began production. Prior to that it was the Lindenberg 30. At least that's what the good people at Sailboatdata imply Always liked the look of the Lindenberg 28. Looked like quite a powered up ULDB. Sailboatdata says only 12 were built, which is more than I thought. But still very hard to find one The 30 came first and you've got the history and naming right. The prototype was flush-decked, not an attractive boat before they added the MORC cabintop on subsequent boats. The 24 was called WL and built by Schock from the start. And yup, the 28 was always called Lindenberg and was built by Paul - I don't believe Schock was ever involved in that boat. Cheers! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jackolantern 443 #24 Posted July 7, 2020 26 minutes ago, Greyhound37 said: A few boats down from the Wavelength 24 is this beauty. The Wavelength is pretty healthy just needs a bubble bath but this one is beat. Who can identify this one? What other fun kinds of neglected starter PHRF boats do you have down there? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LarryE 40 #25 Posted July 7, 2020 1 hour ago, CriticalPath said: The 30 came first and you've got the history and naming right. The prototype was flush-decked, not an attractive boat before they added the MORC cabintop on subsequent boats. The 24 was called WL and built by Schock from the start. And yup, the 28 was always called Lindenberg and was built by Paul - I don't believe Schock was ever involved in that boat. Cheers! i am good friends with Paul, see him every week in the winter. he built 3 of 24is. one was airborne, raced locally, forgot the other 2 names. there were 12 of the 28is built by paul and #13 was built gary smith. at one time we had 5 of 13 boats, here racing as a class. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Greyhound37 72 #26 Posted July 8, 2020 14 hours ago, jackolantern said: What other fun kinds of neglected starter PHRF boats do you have down there? The over 40' former racing weapons are plentiful. Sitting on the hard for years. One boat is mid to late '90's 45 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Swimsailor 1,260 #27 Posted July 8, 2020 On 7/6/2020 at 9:28 PM, JimBowie said: Reminds me of my old (and slow) Capri 25. Dear Butler, he couldn't design or build a boat that will ever catch a similar sized J. I know. I owned two of them (22 and 25). We have beaten several J/24's in my Capri 25. In fact we beat a fleet consisting of a J/24, Olson 25, 2 Olson 30's, Hobie 33, J/29, Martin 242, Santana 23D, Impulse 26 and a Merit 22 last February. We won one race boat for boat! Back to the OP, what an awesome looking boat. If it's a W24, that's rad. I thought they only built 2 new hulls, a blue one and red one. Obviously someone could have painted it. Can you see a hull ID on the transom? Regardless, sad such a cool boat is sitting there rotting. I love the look. My Capri 25 has the trapezoidal windows, not the oval ones. Makes it much easier on the eyes. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JimBowie 328 #28 Posted July 8, 2020 1 hour ago, Swimsailor said: We have beaten several J/24's in my Capri 25. In fact we beat a fleet consisting of a J/24, Olson 25, 2 Olson 30's, Hobie 33, J/29, Martin 242, Santana 23D, Impulse 26 and a Merit 22 last February. We won one race boat for boat! Back to the OP, what an awesome looking boat. If it's a W24, that's rad. I thought they only built 2 new hulls, a blue one and red one. Obviously someone could have painted it. Can you see a hull ID on the transom? Regardless, sad such a cool boat is sitting there rotting. I love the look. My Capri 25 has the trapezoidal windows, not the oval ones. Makes it much easier on the eyes. In my defense I will admit: a) it was only my second boat and first one racing...so inexperienced and b) windy choppy bay. The J24s thrive in this slop, the Capris die a slow and tortuous death to the weather mark, by which time the J boats got kites flying and adios mutha fo! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Swimsailor 1,260 #29 Posted July 8, 2020 8 minutes ago, JimBowie said: In my defense I will admit: a) it was only my second boat and first one racing...so inexperienced and b) windy choppy bay. The J24s thrive in this slop, the Capris die a slow and tortuous death to the weather mark, by which time the J boats got kites flying and adios mutha fo! I think they do well where most that still race now live...inland lakes. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JimBowie 328 #30 Posted July 8, 2020 22 minutes ago, Swimsailor said: I think they do well where most that still race now live...inland lakes. Indeed. We're a breezy salt-water venue with 3-4' steep chop. Nothing goes upwind in that shit like a J24. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jackolantern 443 #31 Posted July 8, 2020 5 hours ago, Greyhound37 said: The over 40' former racing weapons are plentiful. Sitting on the hard for years. One boat is mid to late '90's 45 Not a lot of "Starter" in the 45 foot racing weapon range.... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
some dude 162 #32 Posted July 8, 2020 21 hours ago, CriticalPath said: Mariah or G&S 27 Custom, a few built by Lindsay, a few by others I can't recall. A formidable MORC design in the mid-to-late 80s, a development of the S2 7.9SE program (Little Feat). Pigs At Sea, Lizzie B, and Insatiable come to mind... Cheers! Don't forget the mighty Bold Forbes Great boats This one looks kinda rough 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Retired BN 10 #33 Posted July 8, 2020 1 hour ago, some dude said: Don't forget the mighty Bold Forbes Great boats This one looks kinda rough Did CORK offshore with Insatiable years ago after Brian Rikley got it from Rip in the deal for Flak. Wish I had the money to buy the boat back then. It was a great boat to sail and would have made a great PHRF club racer on lake Ontario. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LarryE 40 #34 Posted July 8, 2020 We raced against Rugger, masthead, keel S2 7.9, with a stock 7.9, in KWRW, 2000. They were just so much faster, than us, on all points of sail. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CriticalPath 75 #35 Posted July 9, 2020 21 hours ago, Retired BN said: Did CORK offshore with Insatiable years ago after Brian Rikley got it from Rip in the deal for Flak. Wish I had the money to buy the boat back then. It was a great boat to sail and would have made a great PHRF club racer on lake Ontario. I never had the opportunity to sail on Insatiable, but looked at her when Brian was selling her. We'd just had our first kid, sold the Wavelength to get something more child-friendly, so Insatiable got ixnay'd... Looked at Little Feat (S2 7.9SE) too, nice cockpit but bare interior wasn't much of a seller for the (ex) wife's expectations for a family racer/cruiser... 18 hours ago, LarryE said: We raced against Rugger, masthead, keel S2 7.9, with a stock 7.9, in KWRW, 2000. They were just so much faster, than us, on all points of sail. The Sampson family optimized Rugger way beyond her original (stock) 7.9 MH FK because they were unhappy with the boat's performance in that configuration. Drop-dead sexy Henderson appendages and a gutted cabin, along with clinical race prep, she was probably the fastest 7.9 based boat ever! Cheers! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
commotion 17 #36 Posted July 11, 2020 On 7/8/2020 at 12:08 PM, JimBowie said: Indeed. We're a breezy salt-water venue with 3-4' steep chop. Nothing goes upwind in that shit like a J24. S2 7.9 will crush the Wavelength and a J24 upwind in a bit of a breeze. Have seen the Wavelength completely lay down, mast in the water and crew scrambling for the keel, Doesn't seem like a good plan to me. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bellum 4 #37 Posted July 12, 2020 So, what is it? Martin 242. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Swimsailor 1,260 #38 Posted July 13, 2020 On 7/11/2020 at 5:29 PM, commotion said: Have seen the Wavelength completely lay down, mast in the water and crew scrambling for the keel, Doesn't seem like a good plan to me. We just did that a month ago on my Capri 25. I've seen it on J/24's as well. Shit happens, although I hope that shit doesn't happen ever again. Any of the boats listed can be PHRF winners if the owner is willing to sort the boat and sails and get some good crew. Winning, even in PHRF, takes some work. These boats are 30+ years old. It will take some thought and elbow grease to make them fast. As far as the OP, the newer WL24's seem to get a lot of things right, bringing the boat more up to date. It's amazing what some deck layout changes can do for an old boat. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Laker 232 #39 Posted July 13, 2020 On 7/11/2020 at 9:27 PM, bellum said: So, what is it? Martin 242. wrong aspect ratio to the keel and gunwhale is not the Laser type wraparound. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
12 metre 344 #40 Posted July 13, 2020 2 hours ago, Laker said: wrong aspect ratio to the keel and gunwhale is not the Laser type wraparound. Yup, not even remotely close to a 242, other than maybe LOA and has a reverse transom. Besides, I think it's already been established that it is a Wavelength 24 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Alan H 424 #41 Posted July 13, 2020 That boat with the externally hung rudder is sweet. I'd sail that in a heartbeat. Mariah 27 you say? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CriticalPath 75 #42 Posted July 13, 2020 3 hours ago, Alan H said: That boat with the externally hung rudder is sweet. I'd sail that in a heartbeat. Mariah 27 you say? It's no surprise that you'd love the design, it's G&S's MORC successor to the S2 7.9 - quite a few similarities in hull shape. Was never a production boat, about 6-7 built semi-custom. Cheers! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Cal20sailor 2,233 #43 Posted July 13, 2020 On 7/7/2020 at 5:35 PM, LarryE said: i am good friends with Paul, see him every week in the winter. he built 3 of 24is. one was airborne, raced locally, forgot the other 2 names. there were 12 of the 28is built by paul and #13 was built gary smith. at one time we had 5 of 13 boats, here racing as a class. Did the '81 MORC Internationals on Lake Erie and there was a boat named 24 Karat or something to that effect that was listed as a Lindenberg 24 that I thought evolved into the WL24. Fast as shit in the day for it's size. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jww 8 #44 Posted July 14, 2020 1 hour ago, Cal20sailor said: Did the '81 MORC Internationals on Lake Erie and there was a boat named 24 Karat or something to that effect that was listed as a Lindenberg 24 that I thought evolved into the WL24. Fast as shit in the day for it's size. 24 Karat was indeed the first Lindenberg 24 built. Skippered by Mark Ploch at the 81 MORC Nationals. I was sailing on the first production Lindenberg 30.. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LarryE 40 #45 Posted July 14, 2020 I have personally have been involved in races where a WL24 was knocked down flat. For some reason they both needed assistance to come back up. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Swimsailor 1,260 #46 Posted July 14, 2020 1 hour ago, LarryE said: I have personally have been involved in races where a WL24 was knocked down flat. For some reason they both needed assistance to come back up. Maybe that's the difference. My Capri popped back up with me on the keel. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
USA 236 18 #47 Posted July 14, 2020 On 7/8/2020 at 3:06 PM, Retired BN said: Did CORK offshore with Insatiable years ago after Brian Rikley got it from Rip in the deal for Flak. Wish I had the money to buy the boat back then. It was a great boat to sail and would have made a great PHRF club racer on lake Ontario. I now own Flak. I looked at buying Absolute, but decided Flak was the better all around boat. Condition wise not so much, but this year is a write off so it made "some" sense to take on a project a quarter of the way into the season. What ever became of Brian? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
255 0 #48 Posted July 15, 2020 Looks like a Tartan Pride 270 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Pointy End 20 #49 Posted July 15, 2020 On 7/13/2020 at 9:01 PM, jww said: 24 Karat was indeed the first Lindenberg 24 built. Skippered by Mark Ploch at the 81 MORC Nationals. I was sailing on the first production Lindenberg 30.. And "Sterling" was L24 #2. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Retired BN 10 #50 Posted July 15, 2020 20 hours ago, USA 236 said: I now own Flak. I looked at buying Absolute, but decided Flak was the better all around boat. Condition wise not so much, but this year is a write off so it made "some" sense to take on a project a quarter of the way into the season. What ever became of Brian? Brian moved to the BVI's in the late 90's and now back in Chatham Ontario. Miss sailing on all his boats, always well prepared and great programs. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Grande Mastere Dreade 2,026 #51 Posted July 15, 2020 On 7/6/2020 at 4:34 PM, Greyhound37 said: looks like a Kirby profile. trailer is in nice shape. little bubble bath and off you go bottom is awesome one in ft worth is now down to $4k... looks to be in better shape than the one above, but then again, how old are the pics? freshwater boat though https://sailingtexas.com/202001/swavelength24107.html not affiliated Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mikey Don’t Like Sh*t 85 #52 Posted July 15, 2020 Here's the deal of the century Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TJSoCal 129 #53 Posted July 15, 2020 6 minutes ago, lamorak said: Here's the deal of the century Depends on what they mean by "project" Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
USA 236 18 #54 Posted July 18, 2020 On 7/15/2020 at 8:57 AM, Retired BN said: Brian moved to the BVI's in the late 90's and now back in Chatham Ontario. Miss sailing on all his boats, always well prepared and great programs. Do you happen to know how he came up with the name of Flak? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Retired BN 10 #55 Posted July 20, 2020 On 7/17/2020 at 9:25 PM, USA 236 said: Do you happen to know how he came up with the name of Flak? I always figured it was from all the Flak he got from the local handicappers and competitors in Montreal when he built his second Rabble the N/M 30. Flak was the next custom boat he built. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
boswell 0 #56 Posted July 21, 2020 Here's an odd duck....1980 Schock 30 https://sailingtexas.com/202001/sschock30101.html Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Swimsailor 1,260 #57 Posted July 21, 2020 2 hours ago, boswell said: Here's an odd duck....1980 Schock 30 https://sailingtexas.com/202001/sschock30101.html That's an interesting boat. Looks like they used chip-seal in the cockpit though. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites