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Greyhound37

ID this PHRF low budget ride

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looks like a Kirby profile. trailer is in nice shape. little bubble bath and off you go

bottom is awesome

26 Kirby.jpg

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probably Kirby 25.  does it have running backstays?

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not sure on the running backs. looks much smaller than 30, 25 is about right. Hot looking boat with a very flat bottom and wide aft for the older design

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Looks a little bigger than what i had but the windows, hull and transom look just like a Mystic Mini Ton (Kirby 21) i used to own

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Reminds me of my old (and slow) Capri 25.  Dear Butler, he couldn't design or build a boat that will ever catch a similar sized J.  I know.  I owned two of them (22 and 25).

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Looks like Kirby lines, but if it is I don't think the stern pulpit is stock. 

 

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Wavelength 24 it is! You are correct. PHRF of 160 ish she should be a scooter off the wind in a breeze.

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They're basically a scaled down version of a Schock 35.  They do well in PHRF, but you need weight on the rail in over 10 knots of breeze.  It is very tender upwind in a blow.  Balances out around the course for a decent rating of 163 in LIS.

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I'm thinking Kirby 30. Double spreader rig, Kirby 25 only has on set of spreaders.

 

 

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Doubt it's a K25.  Transom too raked and trailing edge of K25 keel is swept aft a bit - this one is swept forward like on a W24. 

Too much crown on the cabin top to be a K25 as well. Rudder certainly looks more like one from a W24 and W24 had a double spreader rig.

My best guess is a Wavelength 24 even though the cabin looks a little short. 

But I think it was already established by Greyhound37 that it is a W24.

Below are the two from Sailboatdata for comparison:

K25.gif

W24.jpg

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4 hours ago, Greyhound37 said:

Wavelength 24 it is! You are correct. PHRF of 160 ish she should be a scooter off the wind in a breeze.

I used to race even against them in an Olson 25. If the wind was above 10-12kts we would routinely beat them. Any more than 10-12 and they would have to reduce sail. We could still carry our 155 genny. 

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It's a Wavelength 24.  Great boat, I owned #43 from 1988 to 1992.

Schock redesigned the WL24's deck in/around 2005 - cockpit was 20" longer and much more user-friendly.  Only a few built (and I seem to recall three of them were owned by a woman from Ohio?) so doesn't look like what most people remember.

WDS-Wavelength24-New-1.jpg

WDS-Wavelength24-New-2.jpg

3 hours ago, Snow Guy said:

They're basically a scaled down version of a Schock 35.  They do well in PHRF, but you need weight on the rail in over 10 knots of breeze.  It is very tender upwind in a blow.  Balances out around the course for a decent rating of 163 in LIS.

You're smokin' stuff SG.  Schock 35 was a Schock/Turner redesign of Shad Turner's original Santana 35.

Wavelength 24 and 30 were MORC designs by Paul Lindenberg, Schock happened to build them, but the boats have no design lineage...

Cheers!

 

 

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16 minutes ago, CriticalPath said:

It's a Wavelength 24.  Great boat, I owned #43 from 1988 to 1992.

Schock redesigned the WL24's deck in/around 2005 - cockpit was 20" longer and much more user-friendly.  Only a few built (and I seem to recall three of them were owned by a woman from Ohio?) so doesn't look like what most people remember.

WDS-Wavelength24-New-1.jpg

WDS-Wavelength24-New-2.jpg

You're smokin' stuff SG.  Schock 35 was a Schock/Turner redesign of Shad Turner's original Santana 35.

Wavelength 24 and 30 were MORC designs by Paul Lindenberg, Schock happened to build them, but the boats have no design lineage...

Cheers!

 

 

As I recall, Paul built them but like the L22, the lines were originally  by Bruce Kelly.

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36 minutes ago, dolphinmaster said:

As I recall, Paul built them but like the L22, the lines were originally  by Bruce Kelly.

I knew Kelley was involved with the 22 and Lee Creekmore drew the 26, but I'd thought Paul did the WLs (24, 28, and 30) himself...

Cheers!

 

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A few boats down from the Wavelength 24 is this beauty. The Wavelength is pretty healthy just needs a bubble bath but this one is beat.

Who can identify this one?

28 who knows 1.jpg

28 who knows 2.jpg

28 who knows 3.jpg

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10 minutes ago, Greyhound37 said:

A few boats down from the Wavelength 24 is this beauty. The Wavelength is pretty healthy just needs a bubble bath but this one is beat.

Who can identify this one?

28 who knows 1.jpg

28 who knows 2.jpg

28 who knows 3.jpg

Mariah or G&S 27 Custom, a few built by Lindsay, a few by others I can't recall.  A formidable MORC design in the mid-to-late 80s, a development of the S2 7.9SE program (Little Feat).  Pigs At Sea, Lizzie B, and Insatiable come to mind...

Cheers!

 

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2 hours ago, CriticalPath said:

I knew Kelley was involved with the 22 and Lee Creekmore drew the 26, but I'd thought Paul did the WLs (24, 28, and 30) himself...

Cheers!

 

Yeah, the 24, 28, & 30 have a more family look to them, even down to the cabin,  and most designers like to retain a signature look or styling element.

Oh, and I don't think the 28 was called a Wavelength, it was a Lindenberg 28.  And while the prototype to the 30 was named Wavelength, I think it only became known as the Wavelength 30 once Schock began production.  Prior to that it was the Lindenberg 30.  At least that's what the good people at Sailboatdata imply

Always liked the look of the Lindenberg 28.  Looked like quite a powered up ULDB.  Sailboatdata says only 12 were built, which is more than I thought.  But still very hard to find one

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9 minutes ago, CriticalPath said:

Mariah or G&S 27 Custom, a few built by Lindsay, a few by others I can't recall.  A formidable MORC design in the mid-to-late 80s.  Pigs At Sea, Lizzie B, and Insatiable come to mind...

Cheers!

 

Yeah, that one was pretty easy.

Mariah 27.jpg

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7 minutes ago, 12 metre said:

Yeah, the 24, 28, & 30 have a more family look to them, even down to the cabin,  and most designers like to retain a signature look or styling element.

Oh, and I don't think the 28 was called a Wavelength, it was a Lindenberg 28.  And while the prototype to the 30 was named Wavelength, I think it only became known as the Wavelength 30 once Schock began production.  Prior to that it was the Lindenberg 30.  At least that's what the good people at Sailboatdata imply

Always liked the look of the Lindenberg 28.  Looked like quite a powered up ULDB.  Sailboatdata says only 12 were built, which is more than I thought.  But still very hard to find one

The 30 came first and you've got the history and naming right.  The prototype was flush-decked, not an attractive boat before they added the MORC cabintop on subsequent boats.

The 24 was called WL and built by Schock from the start.

And yup, the 28 was always called Lindenberg and was built by Paul - I don't believe Schock was ever involved in that boat.

Cheers!

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26 minutes ago, Greyhound37 said:

A few boats down from the Wavelength 24 is this beauty. The Wavelength is pretty healthy just needs a bubble bath but this one is beat.

Who can identify this one?

What other fun kinds of neglected starter PHRF boats do you have down there? 

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1 hour ago, CriticalPath said:

The 30 came first and you've got the history and naming right.  The prototype was flush-decked, not an attractive boat before they added the MORC cabintop on subsequent boats.

The 24 was called WL and built by Schock from the start.

And yup, the 28 was always called Lindenberg and was built by Paul - I don't believe Schock was ever involved in that boat.

Cheers!

i am good friends with Paul, see him every week in the winter. he built 3 of 24is. one was airborne, raced locally, forgot the other 2 names.

there were 12 of the 28is built by paul and #13 was built gary smith. at one time we had 5 of 13 boats, here racing as a class.

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14 hours ago, jackolantern said:

What other fun kinds of neglected starter PHRF boats do you have down there? 

The over 40' former racing weapons are plentiful. Sitting on the hard for years. One boat is mid to late '90's 45

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On 7/6/2020 at 9:28 PM, JimBowie said:

Reminds me of my old (and slow) Capri 25.  Dear Butler, he couldn't design or build a boat that will ever catch a similar sized J.  I know.  I owned two of them (22 and 25).

We have beaten several J/24's in my Capri 25.  In fact we beat a fleet consisting of a J/24, Olson 25, 2 Olson 30's, Hobie 33, J/29, Martin 242, Santana 23D, Impulse 26 and a Merit 22 last February.  We won one race boat for boat! 

 

Back to the OP, what an awesome looking boat.  If it's a W24, that's rad.  I thought they only built 2 new hulls, a blue one and red one.  Obviously someone could have painted it.  Can you see a hull ID on the transom?  Regardless, sad such a cool boat is sitting there rotting.  I love the look.  My Capri 25 has the trapezoidal windows, not the oval ones.  Makes it much easier on the eyes.

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1 hour ago, Swimsailor said:

We have beaten several J/24's in my Capri 25.  In fact we beat a fleet consisting of a J/24, Olson 25, 2 Olson 30's, Hobie 33, J/29, Martin 242, Santana 23D, Impulse 26 and a Merit 22 last February.  We won one race boat for boat! 

 

Back to the OP, what an awesome looking boat.  If it's a W24, that's rad.  I thought they only built 2 new hulls, a blue one and red one.  Obviously someone could have painted it.  Can you see a hull ID on the transom?  Regardless, sad such a cool boat is sitting there rotting.  I love the look.  My Capri 25 has the trapezoidal windows, not the oval ones.  Makes it much easier on the eyes.

In my defense I will admit: a) it was only my second boat and first one racing...so inexperienced and b) windy choppy bay.  The J24s thrive in this slop, the Capris die a slow and tortuous death to the weather mark, by which time the J boats got kites flying and adios mutha fo!

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8 minutes ago, JimBowie said:

In my defense I will admit: a) it was only my second boat and first one racing...so inexperienced and b) windy choppy bay.  The J24s thrive in this slop, the Capris die a slow and tortuous death to the weather mark, by which time the J boats got kites flying and adios mutha fo!

I think they do well where most that still race now live...inland lakes.

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22 minutes ago, Swimsailor said:

I think they do well where most that still race now live...inland lakes.

Indeed.  We're a breezy salt-water venue with 3-4' steep chop.  Nothing goes upwind in that shit like a J24.

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5 hours ago, Greyhound37 said:

The over 40' former racing weapons are plentiful. Sitting on the hard for years. One boat is mid to late '90's 45

Not a lot of "Starter" in the 45 foot racing weapon range....

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21 hours ago, CriticalPath said:

Mariah or G&S 27 Custom, a few built by Lindsay, a few by others I can't recall.  A formidable MORC design in the mid-to-late 80s, a development of the S2 7.9SE program (Little Feat).  Pigs At Sea, Lizzie B, and Insatiable come to mind...

Cheers!

 

Don't forget the mighty Bold Forbes

Great boats

This one looks kinda rough

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1 hour ago, some dude said:

Don't forget the mighty Bold Forbes

Great boats

This one looks kinda rough

Did CORK offshore with Insatiable years ago after Brian Rikley  got it from Rip in the deal for Flak. Wish I had the money to buy the boat back then. It was a great boat to sail and would have made a great PHRF club racer on lake Ontario.

 

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We raced against Rugger, masthead, keel S2 7.9, with a stock 7.9, in KWRW, 2000.

They were just  so much faster, than us, on all points of sail.

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21 hours ago, Retired BN said:

Did CORK offshore with Insatiable years ago after Brian Rikley  got it from Rip in the deal for Flak. Wish I had the money to buy the boat back then. It was a great boat to sail and would have made a great PHRF club racer on lake Ontario.

 

I never had the opportunity to sail on Insatiable, but looked at her when Brian was selling her.  We'd just had our first kid, sold the Wavelength to get something more child-friendly, so Insatiable got ixnay'd...  Looked at Little Feat (S2 7.9SE) too, nice cockpit but bare interior wasn't much of a seller for the (ex) wife's expectations for a family racer/cruiser...

18 hours ago, LarryE said:

We raced against Rugger, masthead, keel S2 7.9, with a stock 7.9, in KWRW, 2000.

They were just  so much faster, than us, on all points of sail.

The Sampson family optimized Rugger way beyond her original (stock) 7.9 MH FK because they were unhappy with the boat's performance in that configuration.  Drop-dead sexy Henderson appendages and a gutted cabin, along with clinical race prep, she was probably the fastest 7.9 based boat ever!

Cheers!

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On 7/8/2020 at 12:08 PM, JimBowie said:

Indeed.  We're a breezy salt-water venue with 3-4' steep chop.  Nothing goes upwind in that shit like a J24.

S2 7.9 will crush the Wavelength and a J24 upwind in a bit of a breeze. Have seen the Wavelength completely lay down, mast in the water and crew scrambling for the keel, Doesn't seem like a good plan to me.

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On 7/11/2020 at 5:29 PM, commotion said:

Have seen the Wavelength completely lay down, mast in the water and crew scrambling for the keel, Doesn't seem like a good plan to me.

We just did that a month ago on my Capri 25.  I've seen it on J/24's as well.  Shit happens, although I hope that shit doesn't happen ever again.  Any of the boats listed can be PHRF winners if the owner is willing to sort the boat and sails and get some good crew.  Winning, even in PHRF, takes some work. These boats are 30+ years old.  It will take some thought and elbow grease to make them fast.  As far as the OP,  the newer WL24's seem to get a lot of things right, bringing the boat more up to date.  It's amazing what some deck layout changes can do for an old boat.  

output.jpg

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On 7/11/2020 at 9:27 PM, bellum said:

So, what is it?  
 

Martin 242. 

wrong aspect ratio to the keel and gunwhale is not the Laser type wraparound.

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2 hours ago, Laker said:

wrong aspect ratio to the keel and gunwhale is not the Laser type wraparound.

Yup, not even remotely close to a 242, other than maybe LOA and has a reverse transom.

Besides, I think it's already been established that it is a Wavelength 24

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That boat with the externally hung rudder is sweet.  I'd sail that in a heartbeat.  Mariah 27 you say?

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3 hours ago, Alan H said:

That boat with the externally hung rudder is sweet.  I'd sail that in a heartbeat.  Mariah 27 you say?

It's no surprise that you'd love the design, it's G&S's MORC successor to the S2 7.9 - quite a few similarities in hull shape. Was never a production boat, about 6-7 built semi-custom.

Cheers!

 

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On 7/7/2020 at 5:35 PM, LarryE said:

i am good friends with Paul, see him every week in the winter. he built 3 of 24is. one was airborne, raced locally, forgot the other 2 names.

there were 12 of the 28is built by paul and #13 was built gary smith. at one time we had 5 of 13 boats, here racing as a class.

Did the '81 MORC Internationals on Lake Erie and there was a boat named 24 Karat or something to that effect that was listed as a Lindenberg 24 that I thought evolved into the WL24.  Fast as shit in the day for it's size.  

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1 hour ago, Cal20sailor said:

Did the '81 MORC Internationals on Lake Erie and there was a boat named 24 Karat or something to that effect that was listed as a Lindenberg 24 that I thought evolved into the WL24.  Fast as shit in the day for it's size.  

24 Karat was indeed the first Lindenberg 24 built. Skippered by Mark Ploch at the 81 MORC Nationals. I was sailing on the first production Lindenberg 30..

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I have personally have been involved in races where a WL24 was knocked down flat. For some reason they both needed assistance to come back up. 

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1 hour ago, LarryE said:

I have personally have been involved in races where a WL24 was knocked down flat. For some reason they both needed assistance to come back up. 

Maybe that's the difference.  My Capri popped back up with me on the keel.

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On 7/8/2020 at 3:06 PM, Retired BN said:

Did CORK offshore with Insatiable years ago after Brian Rikley  got it from Rip in the deal for Flak. Wish I had the money to buy the boat back then. It was a great boat to sail and would have made a great PHRF club racer on lake Ontario.

 

I now own Flak.  I looked at buying Absolute, but decided Flak was the better all around boat.  Condition wise not so much, but this year is a write off so it made "some" sense to take on a project a quarter of the way into the season.  What ever became of Brian?

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On 7/13/2020 at 9:01 PM, jww said:

24 Karat was indeed the first Lindenberg 24 built. Skippered by Mark Ploch at the 81 MORC Nationals. I was sailing on the first production Lindenberg 30..

And "Sterling" was L24 #2.

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20 hours ago, USA 236 said:

I now own Flak.  I looked at buying Absolute, but decided Flak was the better all around boat.  Condition wise not so much, but this year is a write off so it made "some" sense to take on a project a quarter of the way into the season.  What ever became of Brian?

Brian moved to the BVI's in the late 90's and now back in Chatham Ontario. Miss sailing on all his boats, always well prepared and great programs.

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On 7/6/2020 at 4:34 PM, Greyhound37 said:

looks like a Kirby profile. trailer is in nice shape. little bubble bath and off you go

bottom is awesome

26 Kirby.jpg

one in ft worth is now down to $4k... 

looks to be in better shape than the one above, but then again, how old are the pics?   freshwater boat though

https://sailingtexas.com/202001/swavelength24107.html

 

not affiliated

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6 minutes ago, lamorak said:

Here's the deal of the century

 

Screen Shot 2020-07-15 at 1.25.16 PM.png

Depends on what they mean by "project"

 

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On 7/15/2020 at 8:57 AM, Retired BN said:

Brian moved to the BVI's in the late 90's and now back in Chatham Ontario. Miss sailing on all his boats, always well prepared and great programs.

Do you happen to know how he came up with the name of Flak?  

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On 7/17/2020 at 9:25 PM, USA 236 said:

Do you happen to know how he came up with the name of Flak?  

I always figured it was from all the Flak he got from the local handicappers and competitors in Montreal when he built his second Rabble the N/M 30. Flak was the next custom boat he built.

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