bmiller

That's a trailer sailer!

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Many people think I'm nuts for wanting another largish boat on a trailer. But in my seemingly never ending search I've run across some remarkably large boats sitting on road trailers.

For example, a 37.5 hunter in North dakota. https://www.sailboatlistings.com/view/80204

31C49372-812B-4F7C-AB35-51A4A8F12549.jpg

A little more reasonable but still big, 30' S2. 

7245301_20191023065816271_1_LARGE.jpg

 

And of course my old boat, 27' ComPac.

zsdf%20(13)-L.jpg

 

 

 

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An S2 would be a good choice.  I know I'll get flamed for this, but have you considered a C&C Mega 30? It's specifically built for trailering.

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34 minutes ago, Diarmuid said:

Have you already ruled out the NorSea 27? It was designed to be trailered from launch site to launch site.

https://www.spinsheet.com/boat-reviews/norsea-27-used-boat-review

 

Ruled out, I was on one, very cramped and I imagine it's a slug.

2 hours ago, Ajax said:

An S2 would be a good choice.  I know I'll get flamed for this, but have you considered a C&C Mega 30? It's specifically built for trailering.

Have not ruled out a Mega 30. Know of one?

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16 minutes ago, bmiller said:

Ruled out, I was on one, very cramped and I imagine it's a slug.

Have not ruled out a Mega 30. Know of one?

Nope. I only suggested it because it fits your mission brief and it doesn't readily spring to the minds of most people.

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In most jurisdictions, it is easy and cheap to get oversize permits for moving your own boat up to a 12'6" beam.  In Minnesota you can get a permit for up to 14' beam and 14' vertical clearance for a nominal annual fee. 

The two main limitations that limit the size of trailerable boats are, as I see it:

- Most people aren't comfortable driving a truck with a trailer that large, let alone backing it

- Tow vehicle weight handling capacity

- Trailer purchase price

The 37.5' Hunter in the photo is 20,000 including trailer which is beyond what anything can tow other than a dual rear wheel diesel pickup specifically set up at the factory for high-capacity towing.

Most 3/4 ton pickups can only tow 10,000-12,000 pounds.

I tow my Hunter 26; it's at the upper end of what can be unstepped/landed and launched/stepped without a crane and travellift.

I haven't been able to figure out a use case for towing a 37' boat that isn't cheaper when I pay someone else by the mile to do the hauling.

I recently saw a Pacific Seacraft Orion for sale (30') that came with a trailer.  Good, seaworthy boat for that size range.

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6 minutes ago, 2airishuman said:

In most jurisdictions, it is easy and cheap to get oversize permits for moving your own boat up to a 12'6" beam.  In Minnesota you can get a permit for up to 14' beam and 14' vertical clearance for a nominal annual fee. 

The two main limitations that limit the size of trailerable boats are, as I see it:

- Most people aren't comfortable driving a truck with a trailer that large, let alone backing it

- Tow vehicle weight handling capacity

- Trailer purchase price

The 37.5' Hunter in the photo is 20,000 including trailer which is beyond what anything can tow other than a dual rear wheel diesel pickup specifically set up at the factory for high-capacity towing.

Most 3/4 ton pickups can only tow 10,000-12,000 pounds.

I tow my Hunter 26; it's at the upper end of what can be unstepped/landed and launched/stepped without a crane and travellift.

I haven't been able to figure out a use case for towing a 37' boat that isn't cheaper when I pay someone else by the mile to do the hauling.

I recently saw a Pacific Seacraft Orion for sale (30') that came with a trailer.  Good, seaworthy boat for that size range.

As you can tell in the last photo above I'm very comfortable hauling, backing, maintaining and storing a relatively large boat.

Where did you see the Orion?

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2 minutes ago, bmiller said:

As you can tell in the last photo above I'm very comfortable hauling, backing, maintaining and storing a relatively large boat.

..nod.. was writing in general terms

2 minutes ago, bmiller said:

Where did you see the Orion?

It has come up for sale twice in the Duluth area in the last three years (along with its trailer).  I'm not sure if it is presently on the market.

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41 minutes ago, 2airishuman said:

I tow my Hunter 26; it's at the upper end of what can be unstepped/landed and launched/stepped without a crane and travellift.

I haven't been able to figure out a use case for towing a 37' boat that isn't cheaper when I pay someone else by the mile to do the hauling.

If all you want to do is bring the boat home for the winter, so that you can work on it whenever you have  a spare 5 minutes (because travel time to the boat is zero), then a trailer makes a lot of sense.  Borrowing or renting a tow vehicle twice a year will be much cheaper than than the cost of yard storage, so if you are buying the trailer at used prices it will pay for itself quickly.

OTOH, if you want to use the boat like a massive trailer-sailer, towing her off cross-country for a weekend splash, then you will need your own monster tow vehicle.

I once saw a Dragon which was used a bit like that.  It was an immaculate varnished Borreson job which went around the regatta circuit, with no expense spared. Instead of a trailer, it had its own mid-sized flatbed truck (also immaculate), with huge built-in storage boxes for all the gear and the squillions of new sails.  Very clearly a please-notice-that-this-is-a-money-no-object exercise.

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There is a fellow on the Ericson forums who has (one of) his E29(s) tricked out as a trailer-sailor.  Apparently there are a couple of lakes he frequents with veeery long ramps, and he's got a tabernacle + gin-pole rig to step the mast.

 I tow mine every few years for haul-out work and it comes in just a feather or two under the 25,000 lb GCVW that it's legal to haul without a class A CDL.  ...if all the gear is stripped out of it, the tanks are empty, and the dog takes a leak first.  Actually, I think the GCVW isn't the issue, it's that a bit too much of it ends up on the trailer.  

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This J/110 is still for sale, on a lovely Triad gooseneck. 

I have a trailer for my Ranger 29, and would love to check out the Great Lakes, New England, or the Bahamas.  I just haven't had the time to leave the PNW, yet. 

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3 hours ago, SeattleEngineer said:

This J/110 is still for sale, on a lovely Triad gooseneck. 

I have a trailer for my Ranger 29, and would love to check out the Great Lakes, New England, or the Bahamas.  I just haven't had the time to leave the PNW, yet. 

That's pretty cool. The shipping cost to get the trailer back from PR might make it a wee bit expensive.

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1 hour ago, bmiller said:

 

That's pretty cool. The shipping cost to get the trailer back from PR might make it a wee bit expensive.

just do the same thing with the J.  might be a bit hard to control in the open water though.

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On 7/13/2020 at 9:52 AM, TwoLegged said:

If all you want to do is bring the boat home for the winter, so that you can work on it whenever you have  a spare 5 minutes (because travel time to the boat is zero), then a trailer makes a lot of sense.  Borrowing or renting a tow vehicle twice a year will be much cheaper than than the cost of yard storage, so if you are buying the trailer at used prices it will pay for itself quickly.

 

That's how I play it.  Home made trailer.  Shed is a bonus.

For years I did the "Borrow or Rent" thing for the tow vehicle.  Eventually, that got old, so last year I bought a nearly free "cab and chassis" (pick-up truck with no bed) at an auction.

This season, the plan is to provision the boat while still in the shed.  We will depart for our trip directly from the travel-lift slings.

VE3viDT.jpg

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37 minutes ago, Panope said:

This season, the plan is to provision the boat while still in the shed.  We will depart for our trip directly from the travel-lift slings.

I love that idea.

Its how I thought I would use my campervan.  Since it was parked beside the house, I could pack and provision at my leisure, and then set off with everything sorted.  In practice, there has always been something to fix or reorganise in the runup to a trip, so I end up having to unload all my careful packing, then throw everything in any old way at the last minute, and sort it out in some remote field.  Somehow a boat in the harbour is easier for me to organise more sanely.

Hope your plan works out. Maybe you are having a better-organised incarnation.

BTW, the have your own truck wouldn't work over here.  Since you're not using it for trade purposes, it gets taxed as a private car.  And since it falls into the top bracket for rad tax (over 225g CO2),  the road tax is €2,350/year.  And the insurance will be another grand.  So you'l have standing costs of about €4k/yr before you even move the truck.

Edited by TwoLegged

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7 hours ago, Marcjsmith said:

just do the same thing with the J.  might be a bit hard to control in the open water though.

Oh man! Have I been doing it all wrong?

Hilarious how there is actually a second person on the boat who pops up after the "launch."

I guess if you do not care about your boat or trailer, it is fine.

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3 hours ago, TwoLegged said:

I love that idea.

Its how I thought I would use my campervan.  Since it was parked beside the house, I could pack and provision at my leisure, and then set off with everything sorted.  In practice, there has always been something to fix or reorganise in the runup to a trip, so I end up having to unload all my careful packing, then throw everything in any old way at the last minute, and sort it out in some remote field.  Somehow a boat in the harbour is easier for me to organise more sanely.

Hope your plan works out. Maybe you are having a better-organised incarnation.

BTW, the have your own truck wouldn't work over here.  Since you're not using it for trade purposes, it gets taxed as a private car.  And since it falls into the top bracket for rad tax (over 225g CO2),  the road tax is €2,350/year.  And the insurance will be another grand.  So you'l have standing costs of about €4k/yr before you even move the truck.

We have some farm vehicles that only get used seasonally (plus to tow the boat.) Cool thing is that as farm equipment, we can choose to only license and insure them during the quarter(s) that they actually get used.  However, the state does conduct inquiries from time to time, to be sure that we're actually farming with them.  

One down side is that after the truck sits behind the barn for six months, it takes a day to evict all the mouse nests, and repair whatever they've chewed through. :angry:

 

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1 hour ago, toddster said:

We have some farm vehicles that only get used seasonally (plus to tow the boat.) Cool thing is that as farm equipment, we can choose to only license and insure them during the quarter(s) that they actually get used.  However, the state does conduct inquiries from time to time, to be sure that we're actually farming with them.  

One down side is that after the truck sits behind the barn for six months, it takes a day to evict all the mouse nests, and repair whatever they've chewed through. :angry:

I am lucky in that my farm is all contiguous, and the access lane along the side is private (mostly owned by me).  So I don't need  to tax my farm vehicles unless I go joyriding in them.

For stuff that does have to get taxed, the minimum period of taxation is three months.  So if I had a boat-hauling truck used one day in spring and one day in autumn, I have to tax it for two three-months periods, at €663 for each period.

I am lucky to have very good and friendly plant contractors nearby.  It's much cheaper and much less hassle to use them as needed.

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3 hours ago, AnotherSailor said:

Oh man! Have I been doing it all wrong?

Hilarious how there is actually a second person on the boat who pops up after the "launch."

I guess if you do not care about your boat or trailer, it is fine.

If ou go to the you’ve channel there is a vid of them retrieving  the boat.   Basically the boat goes about 100 yards off shore, unhooks from the trailer, which floats, puts the trailer on a mooring.  When they return hook up the trailer and drive it into shore as fast as you can,  and someone will hook a cable and drag th trailer up the ramp.

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3 hours ago, Marcjsmith said:

If ou go to the you’ve channel there is a vid of them retrieving  the boat.   Basically the boat goes about 100 yards off shore, unhooks from the trailer, which floats, puts the trailer on a mooring.  When they return hook up the trailer and drive it into shore as fast as you can,  and someone will hook a cable and drag th trailer up the ramp.

Brilliant!

or not

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I always liked the Hobie 33.

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2 hours ago, bmiller said:

 

Just a bit out of my budget.

Great for cruising if you are a height challenged person which am pretty sure you are not. The 105 is fun to race in a windy place, otherwise it's just a bigger and newer Ensign.

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With the bigger boats, especially ones with keel stepped masts, how do you handle that from a trailer sailor standpoint? I would expect at a certain size it becomes too much of a hassle?

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On 7/27/2020 at 8:15 PM, TwoLegged said:

I love that idea.

Its how I thought I would use my campervan.  Since it was parked beside the house, I could pack and provision at my leisure, and then set off with everything sorted.  In practice, there has always been something to fix or reorganise in the runup to a trip, so I end up having to unload all my careful packing, then throw everything in any old way at the last minute, and sort it out in some remote field.  Somehow a boat in the harbour is easier for me to organise more sanely.

Hope your plan works out. Maybe you are having a better-organised incarnation.

BTW, the have your own truck wouldn't work over here.  Since you're not using it for trade purposes, it gets taxed as a private car.  And since it falls into the top bracket for rad tax (over 225g CO2),  the road tax is €2,350/year.  And the insurance will be another grand.  So you'l have standing costs of about €4k/yr before you even move the truck.

The general wisdom here is that a white van is the best tow vehicle, the brakes are rated for heavy duty use and you get lot of storage! Biggest boats I've seen trailered on a regular basis where Farr 30 (or Mumm 30) during the tour de France à la voile heydays.

I never checked but I imagine that it isn't that bad to tax/insure a white van here.

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Ah... I need to use the flatbed truck because the bow of the boat overhangs the tow vehicle.  Otherwise the old beat up diesel Suburban I used to own would have been perfect.  Also encountered one marina access road that was so steep there was no way to pull the load up without all-wheel drive.  

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On 7/13/2020 at 6:07 AM, bmiller said:

Many people think I'm nuts for wanting another largish boat on a trailer. But in my seemingly never ending search I've run across some remarkably large boats sitting on road trailers.

For example, a 37.5 hunter in North dakota. https://www.sailboatlistings.com/view/80204

31C49372-812B-4F7C-AB35-51A4A8F12549.jpg

A little more reasonable but still big, 30' S2. 

7245301_20191023065816271_1_LARGE.jpg

 

And of course my old boat, 27' ComPac.

zsdf%20(13)-L.jpg

 

 

 

They need the trailer to get the "f" out of North Dakota.  Them's dangerous road miles for a sailor boy.

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The lake I used to sail at as a kid, pretty much every boat in the sailing club had a road trailer for their boat regardless of size. Largest boats were probably 35 feet or so. The trailers were needed to move the boat into the storage yard for the winter. The club had a fixed crane that members could use to lift the boats onto and off the trailer and then the boats were moved to the yard for the winter. If you didn't have a trailer, you had no way to move your boat on land. They didn't have a travel lift and didn't use jack stands in the yard, which was basically just a grassy field that members had to mow their yard space in the summer.  

I guess I always assumed that if you had a boat on a lake, you pretty much needed a road trailer for it. I'm sure there are exceptions, but I don't think that even if a larger boat has a decent road trailer that many people actually travel with them regularly. One designs like that J/105 are probably the big exception. 

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Here's my previous boat. It was much more economical to use as a trailer sailer. image.png.4d3e941a9a6e9ec6f678a3eb242b22d6.png

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Forgot about this thread.

Photo from earlier in the month.

Rolled out of the shed at 4:30 am.  Lifted into the water ready to sail (except mainsail bent) at 1:30.

Steve

qkxiMX4.jpg

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1 hour ago, Panope said:

Forgot about this thread.

Photo from earlier in the month.

Rolled out of the shed at 4:30 am.  Lifted into the water ready to sail (except mainsail bent) at 1:30.

Steve

qkxiMX4.jpg

Like the mast tabernacle idea, Panope. No need to phaff about. Just ease her up and down on the forestay and off you go.

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An "A" frame helps tabernacle fitted boats raise the mast even easier. 

On several boats I've crewed,  the feet of the A hooked onto the shroud fittings at the deck,  the top of the A,  was attached to the bottom of the fore stay,  then a rope and block to the bow attachment for the forestay then led back to the cockpit.   The A-frame now being at 90degrees to the mast,  it gives great leverage to get the mast up and keeps the mast straight. 

Properly designed the A-frame matches the curvature of the hull and can be left in place during sailing. 

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Not asking the usual Okanagan premium either.

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I had a Mega30 a few centuries ago. I could spend a lot of time on negatives (well known negatives) but.......

 

I could store it in my pole barn. I (and my bank account) miss that.

Myself and one crew could step the mast in an hour. The boat had an a-frame which we stood up and attached to a halyard and then we cranked the mast up with the trailer winch.

I have a picture somewhere of it behind my S10 pickup. I only did that a few times moving the boat a couple of miles but we turned some heads coming down the road.

My trailer delivery to Port Huron, MI for the Bayview Mac took 4-5 hours of fairly leisurely travel. Delivery by water was a multi-day slog.

The new owner converted it to a cruising boat. He would retract the keel at the dock due to high tidal swings.

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2 hours ago, mal5033 said:

I had a Mega30 a few centuries ago. I could spend a lot of time on negatives (well known negatives) but.......

 

I could store it in my pole barn. I (and my bank account) miss that.

Myself and one crew could step the mast in an hour. The boat had an a-frame which we stood up and attached to a halyard and then we cranked the mast up with the trailer winch.

I have a picture somewhere of it behind my S10 pickup. I only did that a few times moving the boat a couple of miles but we turned some heads coming down the road.

My trailer delivery to Port Huron, MI for the Bayview Mac took 4-5 hours of fairly leisurely travel. Delivery by water was a multi-day slog.

The new owner converted it to a cruising boat. He would retract the keel at the dock due to high tidal swings.

It's cool to hear from someone who actually owned one.  I don't exactly want to buy one, but I've always been curious about them.

What were the big negatives, in your mind?

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7 hours ago, Ajax said:

It's cool to hear from someone who actually owned one.  I don't exactly want to buy one, but I've always been curious about them.

What were the big negatives, in your mind?

Don't get me wrong, I'm glad I owned the boat. I did stuff I couldn't have done otherwise.

Having said that.....

The boat was tender until you were practically on your ear. The first 30 degrees could be interesting at times. The beam was only 7'11" to accommodate trailering laws back then. 

She could broach in an instant. I attribute this in part to a skipper (me) who didn't know when to keep it in the bag. It did add to the excitement!

Although the boat strictly cruised before me (it came with a full cockpit canvas enclosure) and after (with huge mods), it was a pretty crappy cruiser for more than a night. It had four bunks down below, with a cooler and a kerosene stove (possibly added by the PO). The head was in the "forepeak" area with a canvas zippered door and anchors clattering at either side when underway.

My boat had an outboard (as did most of the Megas). It was a bitch to keep it in the water in a seaway.

I always said the boat reminded me of an old girlfriend. Great looking from the side but not as good from the rear or front. She (the boat) just had goofy lines. They tried to maximize interior space which made it slab sided to say the least. 

I had hull 19 and I think they were still learning. It is kind of telling that C&C didn't put C&C all over it (it was their secret).

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How about a trailer trawler! Located in Utah. Truck/trailer available. 

For some reason I can't get the photos to embed, but there's a couple of it loaded up on the road.

https://www.yachtworld.com/boats/2000/mainship-390-trawler-3641643/

 

1988 Altura 2-axle trailer w/air over hydraulic brakes (use with semi truck) available for an additional $7,500.

**1990 Ford LE9000 1-axle semi truck, 315 Cummins, 280,000 miles, available for an additional $12,000

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FWIW - Not too hard to find a Triton or an A30 on a trailer. Pictured is Yves Gelinas "Jean de Sud" that he circumnavigated, obviously he tows with an older Suburban. I think you are looking for beamier hulls than these, but if offshore capability is a criteria of importance, they sure fill it.

Jean-du-Sud--on-its-trailer.jpg

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16 hours ago, CapnK said:

FWIW - Not too hard to find a Triton or an A30 on a trailer. Pictured is Yves Gelinas "Jean de Sud" that he circumnavigated, obviously he tows with an older Suburban. I think you are looking for beamier hulls than these, but if offshore capability is a criteria of importance, they sure fill it.

Jean-du-Sud--on-its-trailer.jpg

Here's exactly what you mention, https://au.yachtworld.com/boats/1965/alberg-30-3718844/

That's a lot of money for a project boat with an electric motor.

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On 11/14/2020 at 7:45 AM, bmiller said:

Here's exactly what you mention, https://au.yachtworld.com/boats/1965/alberg-30-3718844/

That's a lot of money for a project boat with an electric motor.

I don't know what the exchange rate at current, but if it is anywhere near 1:1 then at that asking price the owner must have replaced the iron ballast with something of higher density - like gold. :D

 

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7 minutes ago, Slick470 said:

That does look like a really nice boat. 

Lots to like.  But wheel steering :( 

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On 11/13/2020 at 4:32 PM, carlwasher said:

My old trailer sailer. 

Did all over Great Lakes and the FL Keys!

 

Roxy V on Trailer.jpg

Roxy V tr2.jpg

Roxy V at dock.jpg

Rox v underway.jpg

I'd never really considered a small trailable Tri until recently, I saw a Dragonfly and it really made me think. Tow the boat to an interesting cruising ground an inconvenient or impractical distance away and then spend a couple of weeks sailing somewhere new. Load it up, take it home and stick it in the garden. Based on South coast UK marina price it make a lot of sense. Couldn't believe what the damn things cost mind.

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On 11/29/2020 at 2:49 PM, Ishmael said:

Ad claims it's a "full keel" sailboat. I think not.

full, deep, what's the diff, amiright? B)  I passed this on to a friend looking for another boat - could probably recoup getting it by selling the trailer.

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On 10/19/2020 at 10:12 AM, Ajax said:

It's cool to hear from someone who actually owned one.  I don't exactly want to buy one, but I've always been curious about them.

What were the big negatives, in your mind?

I have a Mega 30 OD and I love it.  The picture was taken while I was removing the keel to sand blast and paint it. I can launch it from a regular boat ramp no issues. It takes me right at 2 hours from pulling into a boat ramp location to sailing away. 

Negatives:

1) very tender 25-30 degrees is the fastest on most points of sail. But at 55 degrees she still has a rock solid rudder feel. I have won money(beer) betting on weather helm at those angles. same 5 degree rudder at 10 degrees heel all the way to 55 degrees.

2) Some consider it ugly I actually like it though. I think most don't like the unconventional look.

3) The interior is very Spartan. In order to keep the weight down she uses very little wood. As mentioned earlier the head door is a zipp up piece of cloth. Most of the storage available are fabric "bags" attached at the deck/hull joint. Under the bubble you have a 6' standing area everywhere else is like 4'6".

4) Doesn't point very well. The keel doesn't have enough area to sail at the heel angles. She makes too much lee way.

5) ?Broaching? I have not experienced a single broach yet. The most I have had her out in is 30 knots of wind and not one broach.  Did the other Mega owner have a FK instead of a OD? I have heard they don't perform as well.

Positives:

1) Fast, I have on multiple occasions reached through a fleet of 36'-40' boats. Any time the wind is within a few degrees of the beam or behind I know that she will go.

2) 5' draft keel down 2' keel up. I can beach her and step off onto the sand. I rent a slip with only 3' of water. Much cheaper than the other 30' sailboats in the area.

3) Trailerable,  She does 75 MPH to the wind on a trailer. I can take a 2 week vacation and take my boat with me. 2 hours from sail to trailer or the other way. I am currently making some modifications to shorten this.

4) Sleeps 4 comfortably full crew is 7. 

Jay

 

 

7899.jpg

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On 7/27/2020 at 7:52 AM, Marcjsmith said:

just do the same thing with the J.  might be a bit hard to control in the open water though.

 

I have a Dehler 25 (It is for sale it has been replaced by my Mega 30 OD.) Check out the trailer originally designed for it. It has a little floating dolly that the boat mounts to. You tie the dolly on with the boat still at the dock. Motor around until the dolly hits the ramp then attach a line to the dolly and winch up onto the trailer. The trailer never gets wet and the dolly is so low profile you can launch on any ramp.

Also this boat has the best mast raising system I have ever seen. The forestay attached with a fitting that has a line permanently attached to it.  That line goes through a block that is inside the anchor locker when sailing it is stored in the anchor locker. When time to raise/lower the mast you run just pull that line out and run it back to the winches. Use the winch to to lower the mast with the spinnaker pole as a Gin pole. Notice the mast baby stays are mounted at the mast rotation point. They hold the mast centered no matter the wind or boat motion. You can lower the mast with one hand while the boat is rocking 15 degrees both ways with no concerns.

 

JJ

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1 minute ago, Weyalan said:

Hobie 33

I bought a Mega instead of the Hobie mainly because of my wife. No question the Hobie is superior in most ways except for a few. 

1) My wife is Claustrophobic the 6' standing room on the Mega really helped her feel comfortable in the cabin. 

2) Keel raising, the Hobie's I saw did not have a very user friendly way to raise the keel. The Mega you just flip a switch and let the electric motor to its job. The Hobie had a cap to remove then a raising system to install. As I slip my boat with the keel up I raise it all the time. This was a show stopper for me. 

3) The hobie is even more tender than the Mega. If you look at the displacement they are basically the same except the Mega has another 400 pounds of ballast.

 

JJ

PS Yes the Hobie is faster and I believe designed for a little tougher but it just isn't as trailerable friendly. 

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1 minute ago, johnsonjay17 said:

I bought a Mega instead of the Hobie mainly because of my wife. No question the Hobie is superior in most ways except for a few. 

1) My wife is Claustrophobic the 6' standing room on the Mega really helped her feel comfortable in the cabin. 

2) Keel raising, the Hobie's I saw did not have a very user friendly way to raise the keel. The Mega you just flip a switch and let the electric motor to its job. The Hobie had a cap to remove then a raising system to install. As I slip my boat with the keel up I raise it all the time. This was a show stopper for me. 

3) The hobie is even more tender than the Mega. If you look at the displacement they are basically the same except the Mega has another 400 pounds of ballast.

 

JJ

PS Yes the Hobie is faster and I believe designed for a little tougher but it just isn't as trailerable friendly. 

I have no dog in the race, but a good mate of mine has a Hobie 33 that he keeps on the trailer and launches pretty much weekly for whatever sailing he is doing.  He has built a neat little doohickey with a small 12v winch that raises the keel pretty easily and swiftly. I've crewed for him some... The boat sails like a witch, rates like a bandit and has just enough creature comforts for a little cruising if your standards aren't set too high.

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9 minutes ago, Weyalan said:

I have no dog in the race, but a good mate of mine has a Hobie 33 that he keeps on the trailer and launches pretty much weekly for whatever sailing he is doing.  He has built a neat little doohickey with a small 12v winch that raises the keel pretty easily and swiftly. I've crewed for him some... The boat sails like a witch, rates like a bandit and has just enough creature comforts for a little cruising if your standards aren't set too high.

I think the Hobie sails better for sure, It is the next generation ULDB. Hobie said in a interview once that the Mega and I think it was the Olson 30 were the benchmarks for his Hobie 33.  

I probably could have figured out a way around the keel issue. BUT no way around wifey claustrophobia. 

 

JJ

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44 minutes ago, johnsonjay17 said:

 

I have a Dehler 25 (It is for sale it has been replaced by my Mega 30 OD.) Check out the trailer originally designed for it. It has a little floating dolly that the boat mounts to. You tie the dolly on with the boat still at the dock. Motor around until the dolly hits the ramp then attach a line to the dolly and winch up onto the trailer. The trailer never gets wet and the dolly is so low profile you can launch on any ramp.

Also this boat has the best mast raising system I have ever seen. The forestay attached with a fitting that has a line permanently attached to it.  That line goes through a block that is inside the anchor locker when sailing it is stored in the anchor locker. When time to raise/lower the mast you run just pull that line out and run it back to the winches. Use the winch to to lower the mast with the spinnaker pole as a Gin pole. Notice the mast baby stays are mounted at the mast rotation point. They hold the mast centered no matter the wind or boat motion. You can lower the mast with one hand while the boat is rocking 15 degrees both ways with no concerns.

 

JJ

Found youtube of the dolly in action. 

 

JJ

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9 hours ago, johnsonjay17 said:

I have a Mega 30 OD and I love it.  The picture was taken while I was removing the keel to sand blast and paint it. I can launch it from a regular boat ramp no issues. It takes me right at 2 hours from pulling into a boat ramp location to sailing away. 

Negatives:

1) very tender 25-30 degrees is the fastest on most points of sail. But at 55 degrees she still has a rock solid rudder feel. I have won money(beer) betting on weather helm at those angles. same 5 degree rudder at 10 degrees heel all the way to 55 degrees.

2) Some consider it ugly I actually like it though. I think most don't like the unconventional look.

3) The interior is very Spartan. In order to keep the weight down she uses very little wood. As mentioned earlier the head door is a zipp up piece of cloth. Most of the storage available are fabric "bags" attached at the deck/hull joint. Under the bubble you have a 6' standing area everywhere else is like 4'6".

4) Doesn't point very well. The keel doesn't have enough area to sail at the heel angles. She makes too much lee way.

5) ?Broaching? I have not experienced a single broach yet. The most I have had her out in is 30 knots of wind and not one broach.  Did the other Mega owner have a FK instead of a OD? I have heard they don't perform as well.

Positives:

1) Fast, I have on multiple occasions reached through a fleet of 36'-40' boats. Any time the wind is within a few degrees of the beam or behind I know that she will go.

2) 5' draft keel down 2' keel up. I can beach her and step off onto the sand. I rent a slip with only 3' of water. Much cheaper than the other 30' sailboats in the area.

3) Trailerable,  She does 75 MPH to the wind on a trailer. I can take a 2 week vacation and take my boat with me. 2 hours from sail to trailer or the other way. I am currently making some modifications to shorten this.

4) Sleeps 4 comfortably full crew is 7. 

Jay

 

 

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Hi Jay,

Thanks for some more real world owner experience.  I did the 80's stripes!

I don't plan on owning a Mega but I find them really interesting. They seem to meet their design intent pretty well. How do you raise the mast? A gin pole must be part of the process but are you using the primary winches to crank it up or something else? How do you stabilize it as it's raised?  I think 2 hours to rig such a large boat is pretty snappy.

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1 hour ago, Ajax said:

Hi Jay,

Thanks for some more real world owner experience.  I did the 80's stripes!

I don't plan on owning a Mega but I find them really interesting. They seem to meet their design intent pretty well. How do you raise the mast? A gin pole must be part of the process but are you using the primary winches to crank it up or something else? How do you stabilize it as it's raised?  I think 2 hours to rig such a large boat is pretty snappy.

I live in Houston TX. Check out the early 80's Astros uniforms. I get stopped every busy weekend by people talking about the Astros.

The Mega has a A-frame that is stored on the trailer. There are padeyes on the deck you attach the A-frame to. I run both jib halyards to the A-frame then attach both to the trailer hand winch and use it to crank up the mast. It works well but not as slick as what the Dehler does. The A-frame is of course self centering and it keeps the pull on the mast centered but the mast is free to move about. As the boat is still on the trailer I only have to worry about wind. So the standard operating procedure is to point the bow directly into the wind before raising the mast. That way the wind is not moving the mast side to side. On calm days I am comfortable doing this by myself. On windy days I tie a line to each shroud down low then have 2 volunteers keep pressure on them from the ground while I crank up the mast. The boat colors help me get volunteers here in Houston.

One of the changes I am making is copying the Dehler system. I am replacing the A-frame with the Gen pole and creating a bridle using wire rope that suspends a stainless ring at the rotation point of the mast one on each side of the boat. From that ring I can run lines to the mast and to the Gen pole to keep both centered. No more worry about the mast not staying centered. From the gen pole to the bow I am thinking of using the main sheet and tackle. This way I can raise/lower on the water. I can still use the trailer winch when on the trailer I think it would be faster to rig. My goal is to get rigging time to an hour. I am getting faster each time so far as I figure out little tricks. My next project is redesign the mast supports when the mast is horizontal to make them easier to move the mast from road transport to raise position and back to transport position. Currently that is almost an hour of the 2 hours and it kicks my butt to do it by myself. 

JJ

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8 hours ago, Ajax said:

@johnsonjay17 Awesome!  Got any photos of the boat under sail?

On a different computer I do. Attached are some additional pics I have on this computer. I will post some action pictures later.

The last pic is the hull under the waterline. I glassed over a leaking thru-hull when I bought the boat. I took the picture because it scared me. 1/8" of glass, 1/2" balsa, and less than 1/8" glass on the inside. Ready for a Transpac? Not me.

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Image-1.png

Image-2.png

thin hull.jpg

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20 hours ago, johnsonjay17 said:

I think the Hobie sails better for sure, It is the next generation ULDB. Hobie said in a interview once that the Mega and I think it was the Olson 30 were the benchmarks for his Hobie 33.  

I probably could have figured out a way around the keel issue. BUT no way around wifey claustrophobia. 

JJ

Probably a good call on the keel if you were wanting to leave it in the slip with the keel up (however I may have misunderstood your use of "slip my boat"). Regardless of the lifting mechanism, it leaves a big opening in the boat not very far above the waterline so I was always very cautious while it was up in our Hobie 33, and got the keel down as soon as I could after launching from the trailer.

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9 hours ago, johnsonjay17 said:

My next project is redesign the mast supports when the mast is horizontal to make them easier to move the mast from road transport to raise position and back to transport position. Currently that is almost an hour of the 2 hours and it kicks my butt to do it by myself. 

JJ

Cool boat! And as a north Texas native I'm more of a Rangers fan but love that your sporting those vintage 70's Astros colors.

What kind of mast supports do you have, and what are you considering? I'm slow as hell at mast raising/lowering on both the Corsairs I have owned (it's a rare event for me, I keep her mast up on a trailer at the marina) but it never took more than a few minutes to move the mast to/from transport/raise. On these boats, the supports are only two: lying  the mast on the pulpit, and a removable support that inserts into a bracket on the transom that has a wheel on top. Lower mast onto aft support, walk forward with mast rolling along wheel aft until you reach pulpit to stow. Opposite to raise. It's definitely the brute force part of the operation, but only takes seconds to minutes, depending upon if your spreaders snag. Some guys build there own middle support at the mast step if they are hauling boat 1000's of miles but not necessary for short hauls. Here's a couple of pics (not my boat) that I pulled off the web.

Corsair+trimaran.png

Corsair+trimaran (1).png

Corsair+760.png

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41 minutes ago, Mark Morwood said:

Probably a good call on the keel if you were wanting to leave it in the slip with the keel up (however I may have misunderstood your use of "slip my boat"). Regardless of the lifting mechanism, it leaves a big opening in the boat not very far above the waterline so I was always very cautious while it was up in our Hobie 33, and got the keel down as soon as I could after launching from the trailer.

yes sir it is left in the water 24/7 with the keel up unless I am sailing.  With the Mega I get a little water that splashes in if it is storming. After a big storm about 2-3 cups worth.

 

JJ

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20 minutes ago, J_Grove said:

Cool boat! And as a north Texas native I'm more of a Rangers fan but love that your sporting those vintage 70's Astros colors.

What kind of mast supports do you have, and what are you considering? I'm slow as hell at mast raising/lowering on both the Corsairs I have owned (it's a rare event for me, I keep her mast up on a trailer at the marina) but it never took more than a few minutes to move the mast to/from transport/raise. On these boats, the supports are only two: lying  the mast on the pulpit, and a removable support that inserts into a bracket on the transom that has a wheel on top. Lower mast onto aft support, walk forward with mast rolling along wheel aft until you reach pulpit to stow. Opposite to raise. It's definitely the brute force part of the operation, but only takes seconds to minutes, depending upon if your spreaders snag. Some guys build there own middle support at the mast step if they are hauling boat 1000's of miles but not necessary for short hauls. Here's a couple of pics (not my boat) that I pulled off the web.

Corsair+trimaran.png

Corsair+trimaran (1).png

Corsair+760.png

Basically bad execution is the issue. The wheel comes up from the rudder very similar to the pic above but it is too far forward, not robust enough, and the wheel has no sides so the mast wants to roll off. The hour does include rigging the mast with the A-frame and lines but not raising it. 

The process is untie everything, remove the center support at the tabernacle, route all the shrouds, slide the mast back 4" go to the rear wheel and re-center, walk back forward pick up the mast and roll it back 4", walk to the rear wheel and re-center, walk back forward and move the mast back 4"........... It gets real interesting since the rear wheel is too far forward the mast CG ends up behind the wheel for the last 3 feet or so. So every time I have to walk to the rear I have to tie the front down. Since I have a rolling furler I also have to fight the extrusion.  If it wasn't so frustrating it would be comical. 

The next time I lower the mast I am going to build a better rear wheel it will be back enough that the center of gravity of the mast stays in front of it and have sides so the mast can't roll off. I also am going to build a PVC chute that the furler runs through that way it doesn't get hung up.  It has taken me so long to fix cause my son has been helping me so I didn't have to fight it but since he is in boot camp I now have to do it by myself. 

JJ

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Whoa, having the CG of the mast behind the wheel sounds dicey indeed! Good luck engineering a solution on that one!

A common and simple mod for many in the Corsair community (haven't done it myself) that may help you as far as the mast staying centered is as follows. Keep only the rod (or replace it) of the rear support which will continue to serve as an axle. Upon this, thread 3-4 (however many appropriate) lawn mower wheels (the smaller kind 6" diameter or whatever). On the ends, use much larger diameter wheels (10-12" or whatever is typical for the rear wheels of some push mowers). The whole assembly of 5-6 wheels still fits inside the outer poles of the rear support, keeping them captive. Simple, cheap, effective solution to the problem of mast wondering laterally as it is slid forward/aft. On my to-do list even though I don't raise/lower much.

 

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23 minutes ago, J_Grove said:

Whoa, having the CG of the mast behind the wheel sounds dicey indeed! Good luck engineering a solution on that one!

A common and simple mod for many in the Corsair community (haven't done it myself) that may help you as far as the mast staying centered is as follows. Keep only the rod (or replace it) of the rear support which will continue to serve as an axle. Upon this, thread 3-4 (however many appropriate) lawn mower wheels (the smaller kind 6" diameter or whatever). On the ends, use much larger diameter wheels (10-12" or whatever is typical for the rear wheels of some push mowers). The whole assembly of 5-6 wheels still fits inside the outer poles of the rear support, keeping them captive. Simple, cheap, effective solution to the problem of mast wondering laterally as it is slid forward/aft. On my to-do list even though I don't raise/lower much.

 

I will take a look at the wheel thing that is a good idea.

 

JJ

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That not a trailer sailor.  This is a trailer sailor. 

Its 36 on the waterline and 47 feet on the deck.  Goes 20 knots by sea and 55 mph by trailer.  Standing headroom, not a cave, two staterooms, nice galley, hot and cold running water shower fun.

Oh and you can tow it with a Miata...

... in the snow!  :P

 

boat 1.jpg

boat 2.jpg

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So, how about my Herreshoff/Vaitses Meadowlark?

She's 37 feet overall, but only 8 foot beam, so she's trailerable without permits.

She draws about 20 inches, with the leeboards up, and the masts are on tabernacles, and can be raised and lowered single-handed with nothing but the onboard winch and windlass.

She's kinda odd looking, she won't win many races, and I'll not be crossing oceans with her, but she can get into places a lot of boats can't.

boat.jpg

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2 minutes ago, jdege said:

So, how about my Herreshoff/Vaitses Meadowlark?

She's 37 feet overall, but only 8 foot beam, so she's trailerable without permits.

She draws about 20 inches, with the leeboards up, and the masts are on tabernacles, and can be raised and lowered single-handed with nothing but the onboard winch and windlass.

She's kinda odd looking, she won't win many races, and I'll not be crossing oceans with her, but she can get into places a lot of boats can't.

boat.jpg

Do you have more pics? I really like the idea of this boat but I have never seen one up close.

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8 minutes ago, jdege said:

So, how about my Herreshoff/Vaitses Meadowlark?

She's 37 feet overall, but only 8 foot beam, so she's trailerable without permits.

She draws about 20 inches, with the leeboards up, and the masts are on tabernacles, and can be raised and lowered single-handed with nothing but the onboard winch and windlass.

She's kinda odd looking, she won't win many races, and I'll not be crossing oceans with her, but she can get into places a lot of boats can't.

boat.jpg

If you didn't clip her wings, could she fly?

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There are, as I understand it, hundreds of L. Francis Herreshoff's original design in wood. I've been told that Allan Vaitses built about twenty of his version in fiberglass.

An account of one: SV SkinnyDipper

 

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On 11/29/2020 at 9:55 AM, TwoLegged said:

Lots to like.  But wheel steering :( 

I agree a tiller is better for a lot of things, especially for how I sail our boat 99% of the times. However, I'm starting to think a wheel is better for having company out on the boat and I do like the wheel on the past several boats I have raced on. If I ever get a wheel steered boat though, the wheel needs to be bigger (or have 2) so I can drive from the rails.  

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On 12/4/2020 at 11:51 PM, jdege said:

There are, as I understand it, hundreds of L. Francis Herreshoff's original design in wood. I've been told that Allan Vaitses built about twenty of his version in fiberglass.

An account of one: SV SkinnyDipper

 

IMG_0462_small.jpeg

20200722_155129.jpg

Any interior pics? 

Do they have a stand up interior?

 

Thanks, JJ

Edited by johnsonjay17
add question

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There's a lot of work to be done, before it becomes the boat I want it to be, but it has promise.

I'm 6'1", and I can just stand upright along the centerline. Of course, with an eight-foot beam, there's not much but centerline.

 

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