Alaris

J/160: is there a better fast, large, short handed cruiser?

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A friend is perusing the market for something that meets the following criteria: Fast, 6’+ headroom, fast, easy to shorthand (2-4), ocean race capable, fast, full amenities (A/C, decent shower, etc), under $500k.

Did I mention fast? He’s a former racer at a casually competitive level (15+ years up and down the east coast but now based in the Chesapeake) and would like to be able to keep 70-500 mile east coast races on the possibilities list. He also wants to be able to make some serious miles per day if he wants to, for instance sailing back from Bermuda or to the Caribbean. 

Obviously fast is relative when you consider packing in amenities, but I’ve been racking my brain and playing around on YachtWorld and I can’t think of something that would do all of this better than a 160. Maybe a SC52 but he is a big fan of asym kites for obvious reasons given his proposed crew size on this large a boat. I think a J/44-46 would work but again, no asym and a lot less interior volume. A 130/133 is too small he says but a 145 might work if it were one of the handful (one or two?) built with a full cruising interior. 

He also likes Swans but it seems like they are really winch farms in the larger sizes and therefore not so short handed-friendly unless you go much newer and therefore over his budget. 

Baltic 50?

Final catch? 75’ bridge clearance to his slip.

Thoughts and suggestions welcome. A tough problem to have, right? Hoping I can “help” enough in his selection process to score some time on it. 

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Oh and he is not interested in making a TP52 into a cruising boat. I already suggested that :lol:

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Dr Scott Piper, a CCA Award winner with several hundred thousand miles had avJ160, Pipedream.  He loved it.  Thot it was perfect 

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I’d look at Stealth Chicken. The list price leaves plenty of wiggle room to add a sprit and truck it home under budget. I’m not sure why, I just always thought that boat was cool. 

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The 160 draft is 7 or 9 feet depending on the keel, does that work for his area of Chesapeake? Even if it does for his marina, it does limit local areas he can explore. 

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Just now, steele said:

The 160 draft is 7 or 9 feet depending on the keel, does that work for his area of Chesapeake? Even if it does for his marina, it does limit local areas he can explore. 

Yeah, he’s not much for gunkholing and lives in a deep water area.

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Sailboat data has the I as 66.5 ft.  Add 5-6 ft freeboard + cabin house, and any peripherals at the top of the spar and it will be tight getting under the 75 feet.  Possible, just hit the tides right.

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1 minute ago, bgytr said:

Sailboat data has the I as 66.5 ft.  Add 5-6 ft freeboard + cabin house, and any peripherals at the top of the spar and it will be tight getting under the 75 feet.  Possible, just hit the tides right.

Guess he won’t be springing for the 1.8M B&G masthead wand

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1 minute ago, TwoLegged said:

Nice, but a fussier design to my eye at least than the J/Boats, and it fails the air draft test at 85’. Also far over budget. The Finot is pretty, although perhaps not in that color. 

Pogo 50?

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3 minutes ago, Alaris said:
5 minutes ago, TwoLegged said:

Nice, but a fussier design to my eye at least than the J/Boats, and it fails the air draft test at 85’. Also far over budget. The Finot is pretty, although perhaps not in that color. 

I'd rate the XP-55 as way better built than a J-boat.  The J, XP, and FC all look good to my eye, tho in difft ways.  I love the kermit green of F53/3,

3 minutes ago, Alaris said:

Pogo 50?


Pogo 50 was going to be my next suggestion: https://www.pogostructures.com/en/fiche-bateau/pogo-50/

I dunno how many have been built, but they look like good value new:  base price is €594,600 ex VAT

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Unfortunately all of these options are far over budget even before you get into outfitting. I don’t see his needs being met on budget except in used boats. 

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Boat-specs.com says masthead is 72'. The VHF antenna will make pinging sounds on the bridge. J-160 is a great fit for his needs. My experience on them is the heavy sail handling work implies at least a couple of young strong crew on deck. 

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7 minutes ago, jackolantern said:

The 145 is my favorite J/Boat and my first rec to him but there are so few of them that they come up for sale infrequently. 

3 minutes ago, El Boracho said:

Boat-specs.com says masthead is 72'. The VHF antenna will make pinging sounds on the bridge. J-160 is a great fit for his needs. My experience on them is the heavy sail handling work implies at least a couple of young strong crew on deck. 

His plan would be furling boom and power winches all around to mitigate this. Perhaps even a non-overlapping jib.

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1 hour ago, MiddayGun said:

Guys asking 400k for his boat & can't even post more than one picture.
I hate that shit.

With houses and land, that's usually a good sign of a divorce sale.

"Yeah, it's been on the market for a year, but no offers, so value it as near-nothing"

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One on the Chesapeake with the 7’ draft for 398 so no delivery issues. Listing says about 76’5” antenna clearance. Decent fit out but older electronics and sails. 
 

Back in the IOR days, we used to cruise the Chesapeake with 8’ draft. There just were a number of places you couldn’t go and had to anchor a bit further out. 
 

160 is a good fit for his needs but a lot of boat short handed. Same with Stealth Chicken. 

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22 minutes ago, TwoLegged said:

With houses and land, that's usually a good sign of a divorce sale.

"Yeah, it's been on the market for a year, but no offers, so value it as near-nothing"

Honey I did list the Corvette for sale! (for 4x its value) I don’t understand why it isn’t selling!

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22 minutes ago, Innocent Bystander said:

One on the Chesapeake with the 7’ draft for 398 so no delivery issues. Listing says about 76’5” antenna clearance. Decent fit out but older electronics and sails. 
 

Back in the IOR days, we used to cruise the Chesapeake with 8’ draft. There just were a number of places you couldn’t go and had to anchor a bit further out. 
 

160 is a good fit for his needs but a lot of boat short handed. Same with Stealth Chicken. 

We cruised a J/44 with 8’ on the Chesapeake. Agreed it is not a deal breaker. Just tailors your choices a bit. 

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4 hours ago, Alaris said:

His plan would be furling boom and power winches all around to mitigate this. Perhaps even a non-overlapping jib.

Furling boom on a J/160 feels like heresy.  If you're going to hobble the performance, then it's a bit pointless to start with a performance boat.

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I got to sail the J160 Blue on the Banderas Bay in 18knts flat water.

A extremely nice boat. It was easy to sail.

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2 minutes ago, TwoLegged said:

Furling boom on a J/160 feels like heresy.  If you're going to hobble the performance, then it's a bit pointless to start with a performance boat.

I’m not sure I agree. You want a boat that steers well, has an efficient hull, has a powerful rig, and is laid out in a sensible way. I don’t think that putting a furling boom negates any of that, especially not considering he would keep it in high performance sails. Plenty of performance yachts over 50’ have furling booms (often made of carbon fiber and housing brand new 3di sails) because the sails are just too damn big to handle with 2-3 people. 

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Does he actually need a J160?

I've raced across the channel on a J133 and this was very civilised! TBH I would prefer a J133 without the added complexities of a furling boom and all kind of gadgets necessary to make a J160 manageable by a small crew. The J133 already felt like a big boat and I am not sure that the extra complexities attached to a bigger boat will add much.

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He’s partial to amenities such as a full height separate shower stall, which I do not believe is available on a 133? I know the 44 and 46 had them and that is a feature he is a fan of.

The 133 main is still too big to be flaked by an older couple like this. He’s experienced but knows his limits. As a younger guy myself (35), I have sailed on countless 40’+ boats short handed and been very appreciative of furling booms compared to the times I’ve had to wrestle a 18’+ long main that is as much as 6’ off the cockpit floor with only one other person helping me.

A (different) family friend has a Block Island 40 (modified to sloop) that used to be in our family for decades. He often doesn’t even raise the main when cruising because it is such a hassle. I don’t blame him. That giant Dacron sail is a beast. 

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8 minutes ago, Panoramix said:

Does he actually need a J160?

I've raced across the channel on a J133 and this was very civilised! TBH I would prefer a J133 without the added complexities of a furling boom and all kind of gadgets necessary to make a J160 manageable by a small crew. The J133 already felt like a big boat and I am not sure that the extra complexities attached to a bigger boat will add much.

I should also say that he also just kind of wants a big boat. His words: “the biggest fastest boat that will fit under that bridge” (the 75 foot one I referenced above).

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1 hour ago, Alaris said:

I’m not sure I agree. You want a boat that steers well, has an efficient hull, has a powerful rig, and is laid out in a sensible way. I don’t think that putting a furling boom negates any of that, especially not considering he would keep it in high performance sails. Plenty of performance yachts over 50’ have furling booms (often made of carbon fiber and housing brand new 3di sails) because the sails are just too damn big to handle with 2-3 people. 

The furling boom may be fitted with a sail made of high-quality materials, but when you start out by sacrificing most of the roach and most of the draft, no amount of $$$ will buy you a high-performance sail.

I understand what you write about the sail being too big to handle manually.  But the alternative does reduce efficiency.

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1 minute ago, TwoLegged said:

The furling boom may be fitted with a sail made of high-quality materials, but when you start out by sacrificing most of the roach and most of the draft, no amount of $$$ will buy you a high-performance sail.

I understand what you write about the sail being too big to handle manually.  But the alternative does reduce efficiency.

I see your point and I think that it’s a compromise he’s just willing to make. I mean he’s not buying a Catalina 545 with a telephone pole rig and in mast (gasp!) furling.  The goal is to get the most performance possible while making the few compromises necessary to make it easy enough to handle to still be fun.

One could argue why weigh the boat down with hot and cold running water, reverse cycle A/C and a genset as well. Again, the point is to get the fastest boat that contains these conveniences. 

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I'd take a stack-pack over in-boom furling.  Look at that Pogo 50 brochure up thread.  That's the way to go.  Don't forget the electric halyard winch.

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Easy answer. Lucky Duck the Santa Cruz 52. Has a fixed sprit and pole. Highly optimized.

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More on the cruisey side, but a Morris 48?  There is also 45 for sale in Seattle that I have always liked.  Apogee 51 is in that same vein.  Beyond that look for a Ker 50.  Navy had one that was really nice.  I also really like that Baltic 50 in The PNW.  
 

 

 

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29 minutes ago, T sailor said:

More on the cruisey side, but a Morris 48?  There is also 45 for sale in Seattle that I have always liked.  Apogee 51 is in that same vein.  Beyond that look for a Ker 50.  Navy had one that was really nice.  I also really like that Baltic 50 in The PNW.  

I liked the Morris 45 and Morris 48.  Or at least the prototypes Firefly and Reindeer.  Fine modern hulls and modern rigs with Chuck Paine's eye for elegance, and lovely pilothouse/deck saloon.

But the production boats all seemed to be laden down with a warehouse worth of hardwood furniture. The weights just kept on climbing, massively.

The Able Apogee 51 had a similar hull shape, and evaded being laden with quite so heavily with furniture.

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The J/65 is spec’ed from the factory with a Park Avenue boom; have seen that on a number of fast, higher-end new sailing yachts (Oysters, Gunboats, etc.) and Bob Perry in his review of the J said it made for easy sail handling. Anyone ever tried one? Even on our 40-footer, the main is such a pain to get sitting nicely in its stack pack (with just me handling it and my wife at the helm) that it makes us think twice about taking her out on windier days. I’ve spent a lot of idle time wondering what the best option is for convenience without sacrificing too much sail shape and performance.

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13 hours ago, Teener said:

I'd take a stack-pack over in-boom furling.  Look at that Pogo 50 brochure up thread.  That's the way to go.  Don't forget the electric halyard winch.

Ya stack pack or just lazy jacks works great.  Very effective and a lot lighter and simpler than in-boom.

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16 hours ago, Alaris said:

I should also say that he also just kind of wants a big boat. His words: “the biggest fastest boat that will fit under that bridge” (the 75 foot one I referenced above).

The answer to "the biggest fastest boat that will fit under that bridge" is probably a catamaran and as it will be relatively light, it will also be easier to handle with a small crew!

https://www.ayc.fr/eclipse-552

55 feet, for just 26000 lbs they don't give the air draught but I think that it should be OK as catamarans tend to have relatively short masts. Inside it must feel like living in a flat! For the fast bit, I imagine you don't need to push the boat that hard to break the 20 knots barrier! On an average passage it will be quite a bit faster than a J160.

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11 minutes ago, Panoramix said:

The answer to "the biggest fastest boat that will fit under that bridge" is probably a catamaran and as it will be relatively light, it will also be easier to handle with a small crew!

https://www.ayc.fr/eclipse-552

55 feet, for just 26000 lbs they don't give the air draught but I think that it should be OK as catamarans tend to have relatively short masts. Inside it must feel like living in a flat! For the fast bit, I imagine you don't need to push the boat that hard to break the 20 knots barrier! On an average passage it will be quite a bit faster than a J160.

Interestingly, Pano, the results from the ARC don't seem to show the cats working out much faster than a similar-sized mono.  What with depowering more radically at night because a squall has nastier consequences on a flipper than on a leaner,  and depowering by day to stop your bones rattling, the cats don't seem to average much speed advantage.

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1 hour ago, Panoramix said:

The answer to "the biggest fastest boat that will fit under that bridge" is probably a catamaran and ...

Sounds like the buyer is not yet ready to give up on life.

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On 7/31/2020 at 7:31 AM, Monkey said:

I’d look at Stealth Chicken. The list price leaves plenty of wiggle room to add a sprit and truck it home under budget. I’m not sure why, I just always thought that boat was cool. 

The Chicken is about 4 slips away from my boat. Still looks good if not a bit neglected in the last two years. They did pop the rig out in the last couple years. New clear coat and I assume is good. I’ve got a lot of ocean miles racing against this boat. Very quick in 2A conditions. Funky looking out of the water but no denying it’s fast. 

Has a very nice interior. Worth a look. 

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1 hour ago, Panoramix said:

The answer to "the biggest fastest boat that will fit under that bridge" is probably a catamaran and as it will be relatively light, it will also be easier to handle with a small crew!

https://www.ayc.fr/eclipse-552

55 feet, for just 26000 lbs they don't give the air draught but I think that it should be OK as catamarans tend to have relatively short masts. Inside it must feel like living in a flat! For the fast bit, I imagine you don't need to push the boat that hard to break the 20 knots barrier! On an average passage it will be quite a bit faster than a J160.

He’s allergic to cats and likes the fact that J boats go to weather. 

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1 hour ago, TwoLegged said:

Interestingly, Pano, the results from the ARC don't seem to show the cats working out much faster than a similar-sized mono.  What with depowering more radically at night because a squall has nastier consequences on a flipper than on a leaner,  and depowering by day to stop your bones rattling, the cats don't seem to average much speed advantage.

Many catamarans are just overweight, and it is true that on long distances people tend to throttle back. Nevertheless on shorter distances they are hard to beat. My daughter has a friend whose parents own a cat. Crossing the channel for them is a long daysail whereas we assume from the start that we are going to spend the night at sea!

As for the flipper, I agree with you, multis are for really competent people... offshore I sail monos.

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1 hour ago, Alaris said:

He’s allergic to cats and likes the fact that J boats go to weather. 

There are many good reasons to choose a monohull but I doubt that a J160 will go to weather better than a lightweight cat of similar size with deep daggerboards.

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1 minute ago, Panoramix said:

There are many good reasons to choose a monohull but I doubt that a J160 will go to weather better than a lightweight cat of similar size with deep daggerboards.

A lightweight cat of similar size with similar accommodations will be nowhere near $500k. 

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19 minutes ago, Alaris said:

A lightweight cat of similar size with similar accommodations will be nowhere near $500k. 

See the link I've posted above... 

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Elan 450 might work in this envelope.

The budget you'd save over a J/160 would need to go into making her competitive, but that could work, esp. if sailed on rating.

Plenty around in the Med. Currently out of reach, I guess. But per the brief, I'd say worth a look.

argos-yachtcharter-elan-450-4-kabinen-10-kojen-2-wc-aussenansicht-3.jpg

v7398.jpg

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22 hours ago, Concert Boy said:

I got to sail the J160 Blue on the Banderas Bay in 18knts flat water.

A extremely nice boat. It was easy to sail.

How many legs did you break?

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3 hours ago, no shoes said:

The Chicken is about 4 slips away from my boat. Still looks good if not a bit neglected in the last two years. They did pop the rig out in the last couple years. New clear coat and I assume is good. I’ve got a lot of ocean miles racing against this boat. Very quick in 2A conditions. Funky looking out of the water but no denying it’s fast. 

Has a very nice interior. Worth a look. 

I would guess that draft (water and air) probably eliminate the Chicken. Exceeds 75’ air and the 10’ draft is really pushing it in the Chesapeake. 

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2 hours ago, Panoramix said:

See the link I've posted above... 

It’s a nonstarter. He’s as interested in sailing a cat as he is a bulldozer. 

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30 minutes ago, Alaris said:

It’s a nonstarter. He’s as interested in sailing a cat as he is a bulldozer. 

So he is not serious about the fastest.

I suspect that he doesn't really know what he actually wants apart from something that will look big and impressive!

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Some people like the way cats look and feel, some don’t. It’s like skiing and snowboarding. You’re likely not going to convince someone to change their mind on this.

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16 minutes ago, Panoramix said:

So he is not serious about the fastest.

I suspect that he doesn't really know what he actually wants apart from something that will look big and impressive!

That is a ridiculous statement. Some people don’t like cats, as the above reply notes.

Myself, you could give me the nicest cat in the world and I’d sell it, or if that wasn’t an option, politely refuse. Exceptions are made for rental beach cats because those are toys. 

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19 minutes ago, Panoramix said:

So he is not serious about the fastest.

I suspect that he doesn't really know what he actually wants apart from something that will look big and impressive!

I think it has been made pretty clear through this thread that he is actually very fond of the J/160 and looking for other similar monohulls to compare it with to ensure he is making the right choice. 

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If the only problem with air draft is the VHF antenna you could mount the antenna on a short length of track and use a small halyard to raise and lower it to save 3'

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Just now, Bristol-Cruiser said:

If the only problem with air draft is the VHF antenna you could mount the antenna on a short length of track and use a small halyard to raise and lower it to save 3'

That is a very clever idea. Perhaps the wind instruments as well. 

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1 minute ago, Al Paca said:

Ridiculous idea. 

Why? It could be sort of like an old-fashioned pig sticker burgee setup except you only lower the antenna three feet.

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26 minutes ago, Alaris said:

I think it has been made pretty clear through this thread that he is actually very fond of the J/160 and looking for other similar monohulls to compare it with to ensure he is making the right choice. 

There are lot of contradictions, he likes the j160 on one hand but on the other hand wants to change the main to a less powerful one because he thinks it is too hard... He likes Jboats, wants a big boat but doesn't feel fit enough for a J160, rather than trying to transform a 160 into something else, I think he would be better off getting the biggest J he can handles safely. Or may be he can decide to have a paid hand on board to help him with the big sails.

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Why not an SC 52, boat I used to race is now set for cruising, Dutchman main, roller furling and a removable sprit for an asso, Grinder off and electric primaries, dodger on......

overall a pretty good setup for cruising IMO

3 on the market (according to Yacht world) lucky duck has been raced a lot but the other 2 would leave plenty of money in the budget for upgrades etc

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31 minutes ago, Mudsailor said:

Why not an SC 52, boat I used to race is now set for cruising, Dutchman main, roller furling and a removable sprit for an asso, Grinder off and electric primaries, dodger on......

overall a pretty good setup for cruising IMO

3 on the market (according to Yacht world) lucky duck has been raced a lot but the other 2 would leave plenty of money in the budget for upgrades etc

How would you compare a cruised out SC52 with a 160? Lots of similarities, lots of differences. But both are appealing. 

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4 hours ago, Innocent Bystander said:

I would guess that draft (water and air) probably eliminate the Chicken. Exceeds 75’ air and the 10’ draft is really pushing it in the Chesapeake. 

Too bad. I understand. Its cool boat though. 

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2 hours ago, Panoramix said:

There are lot of contradictions, he likes the j160 on one hand but on the other hand wants to change the main to a less powerful one because he thinks it is too hard... He likes Jboats, wants a big boat but doesn't feel fit enough for a J160, rather than trying to transform a 160 into something else, I think he would be better off getting the biggest J he can handles safely. Or may be he can decide to have a paid hand on board to help him with the big sails.

I cruise the SC50 with no crew on the rail. Singlehanded mostly. Sails just fine, ya know. No surprise there. Legs that are presumed downwind get the big headsails. Weather legs get the non-overlapping short hoist jib. Usually a reef, too. Swapping the headsail is a bit of a chore. With an extra hand to flake & bag it would be easy. Save a lot of weight without crew, too. That helps speed.

J-160 is a little heavier and bigger all around. Sounds like a great choice for the skipper.

Not sure I’d use a smaller main. Sure is handy when lovely tropical days go light. My main is without any jacks or furlers. Pure. I have been know to put in all three reefs while dousing it...when the wind or seas disincline one to do that flaking wrestle with the boom. Reefs are painless after doing that first thousand or so.....

Without lookin at the specs...The SC52 seems a smaller, lighter and simpler than the J-160. Different vibe. Should check one out.

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So I've spent a fair amount of time on a J/160 and would think that even with the furling boom/small jib that still seems like a lot of boat.  I think you would be disappointed with a small jib in less than small jib conditions.   Probably fine sailing in easy conditions/motor sailing with the main when things are working as expected but it would get real hard, real fast if things changed with only a few on board.

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10 minutes ago, ExOmo said:

So I've spent a fair amount of time on a J/160 and would think that even with the furling boom/small jib that still seems like a lot of boat.  I think you would be disappointed with a small jib in less than small jib conditions.   Probably fine sailing in easy conditions/motor sailing with the main when things are working as expected but it would get real hard, real fast if things changed with only a few on board.

Honestly if the J/46 had a sprit it would probably be perfect. And yes I know that is a solvable problem. 

Anyone have thoughts on a 46 vs a 160?

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12 minutes ago, Kenny Dumas said:

Rocket Science?

This length performance mono it’s w/o peer. Prob is that no riptide 55s for sale.

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13 minutes ago, Alaris said:

Anyone have thoughts on a 46 vs a 160?

Paper assessment only: 'J/46 is ~20% lighter than J/160, ~20% less sail area.    if that allows the 46 to be pushed a bit harder,  there might not be much difference in real-world speed.

Also, the 46 was designed with to fit under ICW's bridges.  That could be v useful for an east coast boat. 

 

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Aerodyne 47?  None for sale on yachtworld.  But the 43 rates in the same ballpark as the J.

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21 hours ago, Alaris said:

How would you compare a cruised out SC52 with a 160? Lots of similarities, lots of differences. But both are appealing. 

I always think the 52 is slightly undercanvassed, for racing which can make it just about perfect for cruising, lighter displacement (by a lot) so still good performance until you load it down with too much stuff.....

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For something out of left field 

https://www.yachtworld.com/boats/1992/tripp-55-custom-3598023/

amazing boat.....lots of budget left to get it ‘just so’.......

Great for Bermuda and back

no interest in the boat, just sailed it (a lot) back when it was new and want somebody to give it a real second life as a really fast cruiser/racer.....if that lottery ticket comes in.........

 

 

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15 minutes ago, Mudsailor said:

For something out of left field 

https://www.yachtworld.com/boats/1992/tripp-55-custom-3598023/

amazing boat.....lots of budget left to get it ‘just so’.......

Great for Bermuda and back

no interest in the boat, just sailed it (a lot) back when it was new and want somebody to give it a real second life as a really fast cruiser/racer.....if that lottery ticket comes in.........

 

 

I saw that. Really nice ride. Almost certainly too tall a rig, sadly. 

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On 7/31/2020 at 2:12 PM, Concert Boy said:

I got to sail the J160 Blue on the Banderas Bay in 18knts flat water.

A extremely nice boat. It was easy to sail.

Ha. Say hi to Mike and Cat

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On 8/1/2020 at 8:51 PM, Kenny Dumas said:

Rocket Science?

Pretty sure it is heading for the market.  Last time I talked to the owner he was planning on leaving Malta heading back to east coast and shipping to west, thought the was done with the boat and getting a house.

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On 7/31/2020 at 8:40 PM, ChrisJD said:

The J/65 is spec’ed from the factory with a Park Avenue boom;   and Bob Perry in his review of the J said it made for easy sail handling. 

Does he get paid to say that? 

 

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14 hours ago, Mudsailor said:

I always think the 52 is slightly undercanvassed, f 

? WTF ? 
 

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1 hour ago, Cristoforo said:

Does he get paid to say that? 

Well, he hangs around these boards, so you should feel free to ask him.  All I know is that he's forgotten more about boat design than I'll ever know, so I'm inclined to put some stock in what he writes about it.

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JPK 45. Looks heavier than it is, comes in <10 tons, much higher SA/D than a J/160.

JPK 45 Segeln EYOTY La Rochelle 2017 JGi_EYOTY017-162

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8 hours ago, Matagi said:

JPK 45. Looks heavier than it is, comes in <10 tons, much higher SA/D than a J/160.

Nice-looking boat.  Those small Breton boatyards seem to be  a generation ahead of everyone else.  I presume it is a spinoff of the various offshore open classes in which Brittany specialises: the Mini 650, the Class 40, the Open 60s etc. Those development classes took boat design out of the box, and the builders have turned their hand to cruising, bringing the innovations with them

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12 hours ago, Cristoforo said:

? WTF ? 
 

Yes, another 100sq ft in the main would help in lighter airs.....

and 2,000lbs of the displacement would help in heavier airs downwind

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1 hour ago, Mudsailor said:

Yes, another 100sq ft in the main would help in lighter airs.....

and 2,000lbs of the displacement would help in heavier airs downwind

? Are you suggesting the SC52 needs to be heavier to go faster downwind?

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7 hours ago, Weyalan said:

Marten 49?

How are those holding up build quality wise?

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5 minutes ago, bigmarv said:

DK 46?

348_a38c9c221b703d1c9d1b5aa1147baea8.jpg

That is more than half a ton on the rail (no offense...). So rather no on the short handed criterium...

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10 hours ago, TwoLegged said:

Nice-looking boat.  Those small Breton boatyards seem to be  a generation ahead of everyone else.  I presume it is a spinoff of the various offshore open classes in which Brittany specialises: the Mini 650, the Class 40, the Open 60s etc. Those development classes took boat design out of the box, and the builders have turned their hand to cruising, bringing the innovations with them

The JPK 45 seems to be the bastard child of an open 40 and a Boreal. Said like that it seems like a recipe for disaster but I am sure she is a very good and enviable boat. TBH it is probably better than a Boreal wherever the sea is ice free and maps are of reasonable accuracy (that's a lot of places!!!). I imagine that the lifting keel version can be dried (not too sure...).

I would think much much easier to sail short handed than a J160 (especially on long distances), upwind she would struggle to keep up, especially in breezy conditions but in light airs or downwind she would give the J a run for her money, especially offshore and/or short handed.

A smaller JPK cruiser offshore in breezy conditions :

 

 

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