badlatitude

Burn the Republican Party Down?

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by Peggy Noonan

Wall Street Journal

July 30, 2020

Where did Donald Trump come from? Where is the GOP going? Should the whole thing be burned down? A lot had to go wrong before we got a President Trump. This fact, once broadly acknowledged, has gotten lost, as if a lot of people want it forgotten. 

Mr. Trump’s election came from two unwon wars, which constituted a historic foreign-policy catastrophe, and the Great Recession, which those in power, distracted by their mighty missions, didn’t see coming until it arrived with all its wreckage. He came from the decadeslong refusal of both parties’ leadership to respect and respond to Americans’ anxieties, from left and right, about illegal immigration. He came from bad policy and bad stands on crucial issues. 

He came from the growing realization of on-the-ground Americans that neither party seemed to feel any particular affiliation with or loyalty to them, that both considered them lumpen bases to be managed and manipulated. He came from the great and increasing social and cultural distance between the movers and talkers of the national GOP, its strategists, operatives, thinkers, pundits and party professionals, and the party’s base. He came from algorithms that deliberately excite, divide and addict, and from lawmakers who came to see that all they had to do to endure was talk, not legislate, because legislating involves compromise and, in an era grown polar and primitive, compromise is for quislings. 

He came from a spirit of frustration among a sizable segment of the electorate that, in time, became something like a spirit of nihilism. It will be a long time repairing that, and no one is sure how to. 

 

And here, in that perfect storm, was Mr. Trump’s simple, momentary genius. He declared for president as a branding exercise and went out and said applause lines, and when the crowd cheered, he decided “This is my program,” and when it didn’t cheer, he thought, “Huh, that is not my program.” Some of it was from his gut, but most of it was that casual. After the election a former high official told me he observed it all from the side of the stage. This week the official said that after a rally, on the plane home, all Mr. Trump and Jared Kushner would talk about was the reaction. “Did you see how they responded to that?”

The base, with its cheers, said they weren’t for cutting entitlement benefits. They were still suffering from the effects of 2008, and other things. They weren’t for open borders or for more foreign fighting. They were for the guy who said he hated the elites as much as they did. 

The past four years have produced a different kind of disaster, one often described in this space. The past six months Mr. Trump came up against his own perfect storm, one he could neither exploit nor talk his way past: a pandemic, an economic contraction that will likely produce a lengthy recession, and prolonged, sometimes violent national street protests. If the polls can be trusted, he is on the verge of losing the presidency. 

Now various of his foes, in or formerly of his party, want to burn the whole thing down—level the party, salt the earth where it stood, remove Republican senators, replace them with Democrats. 

This strikes me as another form of nihilism. It’s bloody-minded and not fully responsible for three reasons.

First, it’s true that the two-party system is a mess and a great daily frustration. But in the end, together and in spite of themselves, both parties still function as a force for unity in that when an election comes, whatever your disparate stands, you have to choose whether you align more with Party A or Party B. This encourages coalitions and compromise. It won’t work if there are four parties or six; things will splinter, the system buckle. The Democratic Party needs the Republican Party, needs it to restrain its excesses and repair what it does that proves injurious. The Republicans need the Democrats, too, for the same reasons. 

Second, if the Republicans lose the presidency, the House and the Senate in November, the rising progressives of the Democratic Party will be emboldened and present a bill for collection. They’ll push hard for what they want. This will create a runaway train that will encourage bad policy that will damage the nation. Republicans and conservatives used to worry about that kind of thing.

Third, Donald Trump is burning himself down. Has no one noticed? 

When the Trump experience is over, the Republican Party will have to be rebuilt. It will have to begin with tens of millions of voters who previously supported Mr. Trump. It will have to decide where it stands, its reason for being. It won’t be enough to repeat old mantras or formulations from 1970 to 2000. It’s 2020. We’re a different country. 

A lot is going to have to be rethought. Simple human persuasion will be key.

Rebuilding doesn’t start with fires, purges and lists of those you want ejected from the party. 

Many if not most of those calling for burning the whole thing down are labeled “Never Trump,” and a lot of them are characterologically quick to point the finger of blame. They’re aiming at Trump supporters in Congress. Some of those lawmakers have abandoned long-held principles to show obeisance to the president and his supporters. Some, as you know if you watched the supposed grilling of tech titans this week, are just idiots. 

But Never Trumpers never seem to judge themselves. Many of them, when they were profiting through past identities as Republicans or conservatives, supported or gave strategic cover to the wars that were such a calamity, and attacked those who dissented. Many showed no respect to those anxious about illegal immigration and privately, sometimes publicly, denounced them as bigots. Never Trumpers eloquently decry the vulgarization of politics and say the presidency is lowered by a man like Mr. Trump, and it is. But they invented Sarah Palin and unrelentingly attacked her critics. They often did it in the name of party loyalty. 

Some Never Trumpers helped create the conditions that created President Trump. What would be helpful from them now is not pyromaniac fantasies but constructive modesty, even humility. 

The party’s national leaders and strategists don’t have a lot to be proud of the past few decades. The future of the party will probably bubble up from the states. 

But it matters that the past six months Mr. Trump has been very publicly doing himself in, mismanaging his crises—setting himself on fire. As long as that’s clear, his supporters won’t be able to say, if he loses, that he was a champion of the people who was betrayed by the party elites, the Never Trumpers and the deep state: “He didn’t lose, he was the victim of treachery.” 

Both parties have weaknesses. Liberals enjoy claiming progress that can somehow never quite be quantified. Conservatives like the theme of betrayal.

It will be unhelpful for Republicans, and bad for the country, if that’s the background music of the party the next 10 years. 

 

 

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21 minutes ago, badlatitude said:

Where is the GOP going? Should the whole thing be burned down?

It's already gone.  Trump torched it, and just enough GOPers let him.

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As I said back in early November of 2016, Trump dealt the Democratic Party a swift death, but the one he delivers to the GOP will be much slower and far more painful. 

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There is no more GOP. It's the party of grievance, self-pity, racism and Steve Bannon nihilism.

They stand for nothing because the party has been taken over by a bunch of know-nothing assholes who embraced idiocy before fact and science.The idea  a member of the sitting  president's staff expects the public to believe ideas labeled "alternative facts" and that concept was not challenged by the Party is an Orwellian nightmare.

Trump, Bannon, Miller, McConnell and Putin have burned the GOP to the ground. We will be lucky if that is where the fire stops.

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20 minutes ago, SloopJonB said:

Yeah - quote Nugent and confirm everyones worst opinions of you.

Did you read it through?

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1 hour ago, saxdog said:

There is no more GOP. It's the party of grievance, self-pity, racism and Steve Bannon nihilism.

They stand for nothing because the party has been taken over by a bunch of know-nothing assholes who embraced idiocy before fact and science.The idea  a member of the sitting  president's staff expects the public to believe ideas labeled "alternative facts" and that concept was not challenged by the Party is an Orwellian nightmare.

Trump, Bannon, Miller, McConnell and Putin have burned the GOP to the ground. We will be lucky if that is where the fire stops.

Wasn't it cute that she said Republicans care about policy?

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10 minutes ago, warbird said:

Did you read it through?

Ted Nugent? Are you fucking kidding?

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30 minutes ago, warbird said:
51 minutes ago, SloopJonB said:

Yeah - quote Nugent and confirm everyones worst opinions of you.

Did you read it through?

It's the same nonsense he's been spewing for years.

What are Trump's "great accomplishments"? Other than owning the libs?

I mean, ones based in reality, just the facts please.

- DSK

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43 minutes ago, saxdog said:

Ted Nugent? Are you fucking kidding?

Not that Ted Nugent, this is a 77 year old Canadian who doesn't know any better.

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As my bumper sticker said leading up to the 2012 election:

“Republican Family Values

Greed, Fear and Hate”

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Burn it down ? 

Well folks, if on election day you find yourself in a very long line to vote, 

I want to suggest that you take a break from standing there and 

go burn down your local GOP headquarters . . 

to the ground. 

Please remove any people from the building first. 

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Seriously, are there any bigger cunts on the planet then Gym Jordan and Matt Gaetz.  I like to think I'm a pacifist, but someone needs to knock the smug off both those two pieces of shit.

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11 minutes ago, roundthebuoys said:

Seriously, are there any bigger cunts on the planet then Gym Jordan and Matt Gaetz.  I like to think I'm a pacifist, but someone needs to knock the smug off both those two pieces of shit.

I watched Gym Jordan try to trip Anthony Fauci up this morning.  That was fun.  It's been a while since I saw "Revenge of the Nerds," so the reminder was amusing. 

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2 hours ago, Raz'r said:

Wasn't it cute that she said Republicans care about policy?

She meant the policy of putting money into the pockets of the politicians by doing whatever the donor class told them to do.

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Just now, Sol Rosenberg said:

I watched Gym Jordan try to trip Anthony Fauci up this morning.  That was fun.  It's been a while since I saw "Revenge of the Nerds," so the reminder was amusing. 

That's what made me post.  Jordan is the guy you roll your eyes when he walks in the door, then you get up and leave.

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1 minute ago, roundthebuoys said:

That's what made me post.  Jordan is the guy you roll your eyes when he walks in the door, then you get up and leave.

I used to do that, but not anymore. Our country got where it is by letting bullshitters get away without being called on their bullshit, and letting their narrative become the accepted truth. Nope.  Not on my watch. It's too late for this generation. Their parents taught them that it was alright to bullshit their way through life, and quite likely they have taught THEIR children that bullshitting is acceptable. But there is hope for their children if enough people speak out against bullshit now, to let the kids know that bullshitting is not okay. I used to be nice about it, but that just encourages bullshitters more.  After all, what is less nice than bullshitting people?  Screw them. They should be confronted, so that future generations do not follow the bullshit path. 

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1 hour ago, Steam Flyer said:

It's the same nonsense he's been spewing for years.

What are Trump's "great accomplishments"? Other than owning the libs?

I mean, ones based in reality, just the facts please.

- DSK

Different Ted, it will give you some insight. Message ,  not messenger 

 

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2 hours ago, Steam Flyer said:

It's the same nonsense he's been spewing for years.

What are Trump's "great accomplishments"? Other than owning the libs?

I mean, ones based in reality, just the facts please.

- DSK

Seriously. What has he accomplished as of today that is better than jan. 2 2016 the day before he took office ? 
 

 

 

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1 hour ago, warbird said:

Different Ted, it will give you some insight. Message ,  not messenger 

 

Does this one play really loud, really repetitive guitar, too?

As for the message, I asked you a question about it.

- DSK

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1 minute ago, Steam Flyer said:

Does this one play really loud, really repetitive guitar, too?

As for the message, I asked you a question about it.

- DSK

You and I will differ on accomplishments.  This was posted so you might understand where many on the right stand. It is a simple read and and not really grounds for a shit fight.

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2 minutes ago, warbird said:

You and I will differ on accomplishments.  This was posted so you might understand where many on the right stand. It is a simple read and and not really grounds for a shit fight.

Nope, I'm asking what he accomplished

Here's what I've heard claimed for him-

Installed anti-abortion "conservative" judges... any Republican winning the PResidency would be given credit for that

Created a booming economy... this is bullshit, the economy actually grew more under Obama. That is a plain fact. The best Trump did was not fuck it up, and feed it MORE debt out of all our pockets.

Created a law-and-order movement... more bullshit, guess why we have more riots now

Secured the borders... if you take this as code for putting brown kids in cages, yeah. Great. The biggest deterrent to illegal immigration now is that our economy sucks, they can't get jobs. And they are likely to end up in concentration camps. Great job, yeah.

Tax reform- this is genuinely a policy question, but the Great Tax Reform is actually rather superficial, not even a band aid really. It primarily benefits the 400 richest families that already control 40% of the wealth of this country. If you like to pay more and get less, then great, you win this one.

Restored US strength in the world... utter bullshit, Trump gets laughed at and has abdicated the USA's position at the top of world leadership in pretty much everything. You don't get stronger by shitting on your allies and kissing Putin's ass.

Those are the facts. If you 've got something I've overlooked, let's see it.

- DSK

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1 hour ago, warbird said:

You and I will differ on accomplishments.  This was posted so you might understand where many on the right stand. It is a simple read and and not really grounds for a shit fight.

There is no "right"

There is no "conservative"

y'all have the principles of quicksand

You take no "stands" other than Liberals are to be hated. Preferably with a knee on their neck.

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1 hour ago, Steam Flyer said:

Nope, I'm asking what he accomplished

Here's what I've heard claimed for him-

Installed anti-abortion "conservative" judges... any Republican winning the PResidency would be given credit for that

Created a booming economy... this is bullshit, the economy actually grew more under Obama. That is a plain fact. The best Trump did was not fuck it up, and feed it MORE debt out of all our pockets.

Created a law-and-order movement... more bullshit, guess why we have more riots now

Secured the borders... if you take this as code for putting brown kids in cages, yeah. Great. The biggest deterrent to illegal immigration now is that our economy sucks, they can't get jobs. And they are likely to end up in concentration camps. Great job, yeah.

Tax reform- this is genuinely a policy question, but the Great Tax Reform is actually rather superficial, not even a band aid really. It primarily benefits the 400 richest families that already control 40% of the wealth of this country. If you like to pay more and get less, then great, you win this one.

Restored US strength in the world... utter bullshit, Trump gets laughed at and has abdicated the USA's position at the top of world leadership in pretty much everything. You don't get stronger by shitting on your allies and kissing Putin's ass.

Those are the facts. If you 've got something I've overlooked, let's see it.

- DSK

Actually, Trump/Mitch DID fuck it up. Those tax cuts? Look pretty stupid now, don't they?

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Simple as I can say it. $6.6 trillion added to debt, $7 trillion used to pump up stock market. That's a rigged economy, and when it blows I truly hope you are ready for it.

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13 minutes ago, Raz'r said:

Actually, Trump/Mitch DID fuck it up. Those tax cuts? Look pretty stupid now, don't they?

Not if you genuinely believe that the top 0.01% should get/own EVERYTHING

Personally I'm kind of surprised that the Trump economy went along as well as it did, but the top 2%ers are apparently racist fucks, hating Obama while they made more money than ever in history under his watch. With Trump they made almost as much but kept more of it.

My own personal belief is that President really does not influence the national economy that much. He's got about equal influence, and can do things a bit quicker, than Congress. But the Trumpalos want it both ways, to remember the Bush/Cheney crash as Obama's fault (like H-Katrina) and extoll Trump's economy as the Greatest Ever In History!!!!! WINNING!!!!!!!! which of course is a fallacy.

There has been some small economic news during the last 3 1/2 years that was genuinely good. The uptick in real wages, for example. But for the most part, the best thing you can say is that Trump and his minions didn't really fuck it up until about last year. And their ballooning of the deficit left no leeway to handle a recession, as common sense would suggest.

- DSK

 

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9 hours ago, warbird said:

This was posted so you might understand where many on the right stand. It is a simple minded read

FTFY

No-one fails to understand where many on the right stand.

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8 minutes ago, SloopJonB said:

FTFY

No-one fails to understand where many on the right stand.

Many on the right collapse in a drunken heap.

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On 7/31/2020 at 2:25 PM, Sol Rosenberg said:

I watched Gym Jordan try to trip Anthony Fauci up this morning.  That was fun.  It's been a while since I saw "Revenge of the Nerds," so the reminder was amusing. 

 

117125262_4941515862526019_782799006680550485_o.jpg

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Quote

 

by Peggy Noonan

Wall Street Journal

July 30, 2020

Where did Donald Trump come from? Where is the GOP going? Should the whole thing be burned down? A lot had to go wrong before we got a President Trump. This fact, once broadly acknowledged, has gotten lost, as if a lot of people want it forgotten. 

 

 

 

Looks like Peggy is late to the party.  I've been saying this since Nov 2016.  I think I should sue her for intellectual property infringement.  :P

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On 7/31/2020 at 6:07 AM, badlatitude said:

He came from the decadeslong refusal of both parties’ leadership to respect and respond to Americans’ anxieties, from left and right, about illegal immigration. He came from bad policy and bad stands on crucial issues. 

He came from the growing realization of on-the-ground Americans that neither party seemed to feel any particular affiliation with or loyalty to them, that both considered them lumpen bases to be managed and manipulated. He came from the great and increasing social and cultural distance between the movers and talkers of the national GOP, its strategists, operatives, thinkers, pundits and party professionals, and the party’s base. He came from algorithms that deliberately excite, divide and addict, and from lawmakers who came to see that all they had to do to endure was talk, not legislate, because legislating involves compromise and, in an era grown polar and primitive, compromise is for quislings. 

He came from a spirit of frustration among a sizable segment of the electorate that, in time, became something like a spirit of nihilism. It will be a long time repairing that, and no one is sure how to. 

I've been saying this exact thing here too.  It's like Ms Noonan has been following my posts on PA for years.  ;)

I said from the beginning that trump is a symptom, not a cause.  That a lot of stars had to align before someone like him could be POTUS.  But it was the perfect storm of dissatisfaction across the 'Murican electorate and those who bought into the "basket of deplorables", and still does, have a huge role to play in why he's here.  And why despite how obviously horrible he is, the election is far from certain in its outcome.  

I hate to say I told you so..... but......

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On 7/31/2020 at 6:07 AM, badlatitude said:

SNIP from the OP - "Rebuilding doesn’t start with fires, purges and lists of those you want ejected from the party." 

Sure it does.  It does when the previous iteration was so horrible as to not be recognizable as American.  I don't recall that the post-WWII German Gov't attempted to keep the framework and members in order to rebuild the Nazi party.  

I don't think it's going to far to call many members of the GOP actual traitors.  So yep, I think burning it down (metaphorically) is exactly what is called for here.  Sure it will suck for a while while the Dems run roughshod over the Constitution with their unchecked power and and thirst for revenge.  For a while.  But it will make whatever the replacement is all that much more resolute about coming up with a solid counter to that power and anger.  

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On 7/31/2020 at 12:40 PM, dacapo said:

than jan. 20 2016 2017 the day before he took office

FIFY.

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10 minutes ago, Burning Man said:

I don't recall that the post-WWII German Gov't attempted to keep the framework and members in order to rebuild the Nazi party.

There were a lot of nazi structures left in place and a lot of nazis stayed in positions of power in police, politics, courts, etc. Getting rid of them was what '68 was all about in germany.

Nazi thought still isn't limited to germany. I.e. The original description of autism by Asperger, who personally send people to be gassed, included a "lack of natural love for the Führer" and his definition of an "illness" still survives today.

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54 minutes ago, Burning Man said:

I don't think it's going to far to call many members of the GOP actual traitors.  So yep, I think burning it down (metaphorically) is exactly what is called for here.  Sure it will suck for a while while the Dems run roughshod over the Constitution with their unchecked power and and thirst for revenge. 

What do you call people who support a traitor, to the point that they are prepared to hide, lie, distract, totally disregard and talk over the evidence provided by their own intelligence services?

There is no proof or suggestion that the Dems will ride roughshod over the Constitution with their unchecked power and thirst for revenge in the same way as Trump and his cabal already have...... much worse than Nixon and his band of crooks..... and some of the GOP political thugs have been involved with both of them.

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32 minutes ago, badlatitude said:

This is not the Lincoln Project, but I like the way it hits.

loved it passed it on to friends

 

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As an X goper, he's killed the party that used to have some valves , 

Now it's all about greed , money, power and killing the constitution 

The problem is that their are so many cultist out there, I just hope they all drink the Kool aid!

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36 minutes ago, Not for nothing said:

As an X goper, he's killed the party that used to have some valves , 

Now it's all about greed , money, power and killing the constitution 

The problem is that their are so many cultist out there, I just hope they all drink the Kool aid!

The party has been in death throes since the beginning of Obama, and it has been about greed, money and power since Reagan. Killing the Constitution came under G.W. Bush. If Trump is reelected, the American experiment is over. Let's hope a sound and thorough defeat, makes most of them head for the hills they came from.

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4 hours ago, Burning Man said:

FIFY.

"There is nothing on this earth sexier, believe me, gentlemen, than a woman you have to salute in the morning. Promote 'em all, I say, 'cause this is true: if you haven't gotten a blowjob from a superior officer, well, you're just letting the best in life pass you by."

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3 hours ago, Sidecar said:

There is no proof or suggestion that the Dems will ride roughshod over the Constitution with their unchecked power and thirst for revenge in the same way as Trump and his cabal already have...... much worse than Nixon and his band of crooks..... and some of the GOP political thugs have been involved with both of them.

There is more than enough internal tension within the Democratic Party between liberal scum such as myself and centrists or what Krugman calls the Very Serious People to prevent that. Centrist Democrats (Hillary, Obama, Biden, ...) would in any other country be right of center. Republicans have become fascists and find more in common with other external fascists, Putin, Berlusconi, the Sauds, Netanyahu, ..., then they do with American counter parties.

The last time the Democrats had the House, Senate and Presidency they forced health insurance reform on the body politic. I fear the worst is in store. Better buy a gun.

Indeed there is no internal tension within the Republican Party. In fact there are no Never Trumpers and instead there are Whatever Trumpers, at least one to be found on this page. Moreover, Shitstain losing in November will change nothing. Republicans will ever be the same, impervious to any bitch burning.

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