Alaris

What’s next for J?

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The 121 has been out a few years. Personally I wouldn’t be surprised to see something in the 43-45’ range. This is the first time since the 44 was introduced in 1989 that they haven’t offered a single boat over 40’.

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dust off the drawing board and build a fast boat. In the 40 foot range, think 125 with just a little more beam aft and the rudder moved forward.  

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Just now, IMR said:

dust off the drawing board and build a fast boat. In the 40 foot range, think 125 with just a little more beam aft and the rudder moved forward.  

They were so close with the 121. Could they strip it out and make it cheaper and faster without going full carbon a la 125?

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I think in the talk with the Ed there were some hints of something like that being in the works, 46ft or so? Would need to listen to it again but less important stuff keeps me from it.

It's an interesting interview from a design perspective, though. You will never see a Pogo/Dehler 30 etc. style boat in the near future as they believe in rather slim lines aft, no chines and an emphasis on a boat that goes upwind as well.

But I agree, a modern version of a 125 would be a good counterpoint to all these inflated bathtubs. Just to show them, that you can do it differently. A slightly faster 99 or 88 would also be good, maybe a re-iteration of the J/90?

img699

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1 hour ago, Alaris said:

They were so close with the 121. Could they strip it out and make it cheaper and faster without going full carbon a la 125?

I feel like they could just turbo the 121 and be there.  The 121 hull is all that, but the rig is so conservative, that it rates basically the same as a 122, despite being much lighter and having water ballast.  Put a decent stick on it, and watch it go.  

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1 hour ago, Alaris said:

They were so close with the 121. Could they strip it out and make it cheaper and faster without going full carbon a la 125?

Take the 121 and build it in carbon and strip it out so it’s fast.

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1 minute ago, Roleur said:

I feel like they could just turbo the 121 and be there.  The 121 hull is all that, but the rig is so conservative, that it rates basically the same as a 122, despite being much lighter and having water ballast.  Put a decent stick on it, and watch it go.  

I just looked at the specs and didn’t realize the SA/D was so low. Seems like a missed opportunity but then again they tend to skew conservative generally and the design brief was for short handed sailing. 

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6 minutes ago, Matagi said:

I think in the talk with the Ed there were some hints of something like that being in the works, 46ft or so? Would need to listen to it again but less important stuff keeps me from it.

It's an interesting interview from a design perspective, though. You will never see a Pogo/Dehler 30 etc. style boat in the near future as they believe in rather slim lines aft, no chines and an emphasis on a boat that goes upwind as well.

But I agree, a modern version of a 125 would be a good counterpoint to all these inflated bathtubs. Just to show them, that you can do it differently. A slightly faster 99 or 88 would also be good, maybe a re-iteration of the J/90?

img699

The 90 and the 125 have the same dna. 

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1 minute ago, IMR said:

Take the 121 and build it in carbon and strip it out so it’s fast.

Million dollar 40 footer :blink:

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2 minutes ago, RImike said:

Well there is a turbo'ed version out there with a taller mast....

Where?  Boat name?

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21 minutes ago, bloodshot said:

unstayed J/123 offshore catboat

 

post-55-1224014308.jpg 

One might call J/Boats many names, but unconventional is not one of them. 

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Any idea the rating impact of the new rig and sails?

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I wouldn't mind seeing a 20-21 footer that can compete for club fleet ownership like the RS21

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Those are treading awfully close to the J/70 even given the caveats you both list. I don’t see J stepping on their own toes like that. 

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7 hours ago, bloodshot said:

I wouldn't mind seeing a 20-21 footer that can compete for club fleet ownership like the RS21

This^^. The future is small and shorthanded.

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4 hours ago, Guvacine said:

This^^. The future is small and shorthanded.

The future is shorthanded, not necessarily small.

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20 hours ago, captnjoe said:

The future is shorthanded, not necessarily small.

Exactly.  We just finished our 18th double-handed race of the year on our J/111.  At least 12 more planned for the remainder of the year.  

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5 minutes ago, Roleur said:

Exactly.  We just finished our 18th double-handed race of the year on our J/111.  At least 12 more planned for the remainder of the year.  

Ditto on our turbo 105, although only three races down so far. Two more in the next two weeks. 

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2 hours ago, Roleur said:

Exactly.  We just finished our 18th double-handed race of the year on our J/111.  At least 12 more planned for the remainder of the year.  

Our boating was locked down for almost the whole first half of the year (counting Jan and Feb for winter weather) so we’re really just getting started. We just don’t have enough stability in our race schedules because of covid so we’re just playing it by ear. If races go forward we will go. But it’s impossible to make long term (i.e. months ahead) plans like a usual season. 

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In the Stu Johnston interview I asked what was the next J boat.  Stu replied that something along the lines of the 121 but in the 145 size range.

We need to get this "new" 125 out of our heads.  The 125 molds were destroyed in a fire and it sounds like they have no interest in low volume builds, regardless how fast they could be on the water. They want to sell 100 boats per model, not 10.

The 121 is no slouch.  It won its class in Transpac last year.  And while I would not turn down a Transpac ride on a 125, I'm willing to bet the guys on the 121 had just as much fun with a bit more elbow room below.

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On 8/1/2020 at 9:23 AM, bloodshot said:

I wouldn't mind seeing a 20-21 footer that can compete for club fleet ownership like the RS21

Not sure why you would pass on the j/70 for that purpose.  RS21's aren't much cheaper than a 70, if at all.

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1 hour ago, Swimsailor said:

In the Stu Johnston interview I asked what was the next J boat.  Stu replied that something along the lines of the 121 but in the 145 size range.

We need to get this "new" 125 out of our heads.  The 125 molds were destroyed in a fire and it sounds like they have no interest in low volume builds, regardless how fast they could be on the water. They want to sell 100 boats per model, not 10.

The 121 is no slouch.  It won its class in Transpac last year.  And while I would not turn down a Transpac ride on a 125, I'm willing to bet the guys on the 121 had just as much fun with a bit more elbow room below.

I don’t mean to be a dick, but I got a Moore 24 to Hawaii in the same time it took the 121. They were almost 2 days slower than the 125. I bet they had fun. 

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7 hours ago, IMR said:

I don’t mean to be a dick, but I got a Moore 24 to Hawaii in the same time it took the 121. They were almost 2 days slower than the 125. I bet they had fun. 

A win is a win.  But that’s kind of my point.  I don’t think J Boat customers are looking for absolute speed.  I doubt there are many buyers trying to decide between a J121 or a Moore 24 for their next transpac.

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10 minutes ago, Swimsailor said:

A win is a win.  But that’s kind of my point.  I don’t think J Boat customers are looking for absolute speed.  I doubt there are many buyers trying to decide between a J121 or a Moore 24 for their next transpac.

You might as well be comparing the 121 to a foiling dinghy. Their design briefs could not be more different. 

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34 minutes ago, Swimsailor said:

A win is a win.  But that’s kind of my point.  I don’t think J Boat customers are looking for absolute speed.  I doubt there are many buyers trying to decide between a J121 or a Moore 24 for their next transpac.

I was not trying to say it’s a 121 or a Moore 24. I was just saying the 121 is not all that fast for a 40 foot boat.  

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4 minutes ago, IMR said:

I was not trying to say it’s a 121 or a Moore 24. I was just saying the 121 is not all that fast for a 40 foot boat.  

I agree with you there, it could use some more rig IMO. Stability is probably fine with water ballast, add crew if you like for max speed or maybe a heavier keel. The hull shape is probably one of the better (best?) big boats J has designed excluding the 125/145. 

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On 8/1/2020 at 9:20 AM, Varan said:

How about a J75 that can keep up with a 25 year old Melges 24?

 Unlikely. 

The J/70 was meant to be a one design.  This focus on absolute speed is kind of a waste of time.  The target market for the 70 isn't someone who wants to sail faster than a Melges 24.  I would think those cross shopping the 2 would be looking at the closest 1D fleet.  And as far as I have seen, neither one lights the PHRF world on fire.

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1 minute ago, Swimsailor said:

The J/70 was meant to be a one design.  This focus on absolute speed is kind of a waste of time.  The target market for the 70 isn't someone who wants to sail faster than a Melges 24.  I would think those cross shopping the 2 would be looking at the closest 1D fleet.  And as far as I have seen, neither one lights the PHRF world on fire.

The Melges 24s I’ve raced against in PHRF regularly get clobbered by boats rating both far higher and far lower. The best boats and crews don’t bother with PHRF. 

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4 minutes ago, IMR said:

I was not trying to say it’s a 121 or a Moore 24. I was just saying the 121 is not all that fast for a 40 foot boat.  

And I'm saying it doesn't matter.  Transpac win.  Newport Bermuda win.  Bayview Mac win.  

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Loki the J/121 raced The Hook Race with a PHRF rating of 3.  She went up about 4 feet in the mast. 

She took 3rd in PHRF 2, losing to a Farr 40 rating -12, and a J/160 rating -6.

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3 hours ago, garyedelman said:

Loki the J/121 raced The Hook Race with a PHRF rating of 3.  She went up about 4 feet in the mast. 

She took 3rd in PHRF 2, losing to a Farr 40 rating -12, and a J/160 rating -6.

Sounds like it would rate something like 12 sec/mile slower than a J/125 then?  That's not bad considering it would be easier to shorthand and more comfortable in general.  Isn't the base rating of a 121 closer to 30?  

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