greasy al

The Australian Sailing and RQYS Kabuki Theatre Thread

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On 10/27/2020 at 9:27 AM, LB 15 said:

Some clubs are looking at other income streams like opening Gyms or medical centres. One club I know would do very well to open a Gynaecology and Proctology clinic because the place is full of cunts and arseholes.

What do you mean, the club has an alternative income stream.

It is called the 592 members who have long term leases in Marina 1.

They would be the members paying about $3000.00 this year to be members and subsidize all the others.

Of course it no surprise that all but maybe two of these members race their keelboats at other clubs now.

But that might be also because only club members are allowed to crew on the boats of club member owners.

So everyone has gone elsewhere.

Great way to marginalize your long terms owners.

Even the Etchells barely get 5 boats for a club race now.

Of course the Finn fleet seems to be thriving.

Reap what you sew!

 

 

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On 10/26/2020 at 11:08 PM, (p)Irate said:

I think I just beat the @LB 15 /RQYS record. Banned from a yacht club after two races and not even being a member. I blame @Livia's over-rated shitter Deliverance.

One of the three main Hobart clubs? That sounds shite!

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On 10/26/2020 at 10:08 PM, (p)Irate said:

I think I just beat the @LB 15 /RQYS record. Banned from a yacht club after two races and not even being a member. I blame @Livia's over-rated shitter Deliverance.

How do they ban you?

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3 hours ago, Livia said:

What do you mean, the club has an alternative income stream.

It is called the 592 members who have long term leases in Marina 1.

They would be the members paying about $3000.00 this year to be members and subsidize all the others.

Of course it no surprise that all but maybe two of these members race their keelboats at other clubs now.

But that might be also because only club members are allowed to crew on the boats of club member owners.

So everyone has gone elsewhere.

Great way to marginalize your long terms owners.

Even the Etchells barely get 5 boats for a club race now.

Of course the Finn fleet seems to be thriving.

Reap what you sew!

 

 

I think it's closer to $7000 per annum - $3000 per six months for the berth plus $1000 for membership. I've heard on the grapevine that a scooter racing track is planned for a soon to be vacated hardstand spot... watch this space

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6 hours ago, astro said:

How do they ban you?

They get their law firm to right to you telling you are banned. The term 'gutless cunts' springs to mind...

 

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4 hours ago, astro said:

OK, just curious, what grounds?

The old chestnut of engaging in Facebook posts about handicaps!

and there was the deletion of posts by the administrator over on Seabreeze.com.au

Sure it will be all be fixed tomorrow

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Just now, Livia said:

The old chestnut of engaging in Facebook posts about handicaps!

and there was the deletion of posts by the administrator over on Seabreeze.com.au

Sure it will be all be fixed tomorrow

Fair enough then, but what was the club rule that broke, must have said surely.

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2 minutes ago, astro said:

Fair enough then, but what was the club rule that broke, must have said surely.

The club rule that says new boats to the fleet cannot win trophies.

That one!

Not that I care about this.

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Of course the Finn fleet is thriving...they look after themselves, focus on fun and sharing ideas...and have the awesome Pencil driving the show. He's built a fleet from just 3 to regular turn-outs of over 20 boats. Fraternity, fun, learning together and a few beers.....That is how you do it!

 

 

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11 hours ago, Couta said:

Of course the Finn fleet is thriving...they look after themselves, focus on fun and sharing ideas...and have the awesome Pencil driving the show. He's built a fleet from just 3 to regular turn-outs of over 20 boats. Fraternity, fun, learning together and a few beers.....That is how you do it!

 

 

and we are off to do that this arvo

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On 11/4/2020 at 8:21 PM, astro said:

Fair enough then, but what was the club rule that broke, must have said surely.

The club claimed the competitor was banned because he were in breach of rule 69 - despite the competitor having never had a rule 69 complaint made against them nor having ever been found in breach of rule 69.

And they have never had the stones to actually attempt to bring a rule 69 complaint against the competitor (a professional sailor) because they know that he would drag them into a court and layout all their shit for the all world to see - without there usual threat to sue anyone who dares to complain about their behavior.

That day will come...

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6 hours ago, LB 15 said:

The club claimed the competitor was banned because he were in breach of rule 69 - despite the competitor having never had a rule 69 complaint made against them nor having ever been found in breach of rule 69.

And they have never had the stones to actually attempt to bring a rule 69 complaint against the competitor (a professional sailor) because they know that he would drag them into a court and layout all their shit for the all world to see - without there usual threat to sue anyone who dares to complain about their behavior.

That day will come...

Actually LB old mate, Astro was asking about what rule I had broken to be banned from a small country club after sailing as a crew member in one twilight race and one harbour race.

Funnily enough they have told the owner (who wasn't on board at the time) and the skipper that I'm not welcome. But they haven't told me.

I think I will write to them and politely ask why. Stay tuned.

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7 minutes ago, (p)Irate said:

Actually LB old mate, Astro was asking about what rule I had broken to be banned from a small country club after sailing as a crew member in one twilight race and one harbour race.

Funnily enough they have told the owner (who wasn't on board at the time) and the skipper that I'm not welcome. But they haven't told me.

I think I will write to them and politely ask why. Stay tuned.

I would.

There is a difference between being Banned, and getting secondhand information that you are 'not welcome'.

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1 hour ago, (p)Irate said:

Actually LB old mate, Astro was asking about what rule I had broken to be banned from a small country club after sailing as a crew member in one twilight race and one harbour race.

Funnily enough they have told the owner (who wasn't on board at the time) and the skipper that I'm not welcome. But they haven't told me.

I think I will write to them and politely ask why. Stay tuned.

I know mate but any excuse for a good rant against the evil empire.

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1 hour ago, (p)Irate said:

Actually LB old mate, Astro was asking about what rule I had broken to be banned from a small country club after sailing as a crew member in one twilight race and one harbour race.

Funnily enough they have told the owner (who wasn't on board at the time) and the skipper that I'm not welcome. But they haven't told me.

I think I will write to them and politely ask why. Stay tuned.

Keep us informed. Could be entertaining.

I won't ask what you said/did...

FKT

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^^^ Pencil is the Pied Piper of Australian Finn sailing...wherever he goes, he builds a fleet of Finns...using nothing more than encouragement, positive feedback, quality information, commitment, energy (!!) and a great sense of humour! He currently sails outta RQ....and yeah...he's convinced me to join the Finn fraternity...and I'm in Melbourne!

 

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8 hours ago, Couta said:

^^^ Pencil is the Pied Piper of Australian Finn sailing...wherever he goes, he builds a fleet of Finns...using nothing more than encouragement, positive feedback, quality information, commitment, energy (!!) and a great sense of humour! He currently sails outta RQ....and yeah...he's convinced me to join the Finn fraternity...and I'm in Melbourne!

 

If this is the sort of fleet of Finns he builds, count me in

 

Visit-Alanya-missfinland-misssuomi-misss

 

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17 hours ago, The Dark Knight said:

If this is the sort of fleet of Finns he builds, count me in

 

Visit-Alanya-missfinland-misssuomi-misss

 

How come Scandinavian chicks never smile? 

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2 minutes ago, The Dark Knight said:

because you are 20,000km away in Brisvegas?

They also look like they show great restraint at the Smörgåsbord.

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On 11/6/2020 at 6:18 PM, LB 15 said:

I know mate but any excuse for a good rant against the evil empire.

Any truth this gem is now hanging in the Club to remind members they are being fucked? 

EmmCHf0XcAEwDrg.jpeg

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32 minutes ago, jack_sparrow said:

Any truth this gem is now hanging in the Club to remind members they are being fucked? 

EmmCHf0XcAEwDrg.jpeg

Or sent out with berth owner monthly statements?

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On 11/12/2020 at 2:54 AM, jack_sparrow said:

 

images - 2020-11-12T025324.716.jpeg

That’s got to be @VWAP’s dad and brothers!

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6 hours ago, he b gb said:

That’s got to be @VWAP’s dad and brothers!

no

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On 11/12/2020 at 6:25 PM, jack_sparrow said:

Any truth this gem is now hanging in the Club to remind members they are being fucked? 

EmmCHf0XcAEwDrg.jpeg

I thought it was because of the selective breeding programme in that part of the world.

Obviously I was wrong

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56 minutes ago, TheUltimateSockPuppet said:

The likeness is uncanny...

I didn't know someone in the Club's hierarchy was 'black'?? 

Or have they just spray painted themselves such to portray a 'non-descrimatory' hiring policy, when fucking their 'white' membership?

They really are a strange fucking lot. 

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Well, they did try to throw the only owner hailing from the sub continent out.

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Busy Night for the Tailban earlier this week. They should have studied history before picking their latest shitfight. Just when Hitler was set to invade england for some reason he started another war with Russia.

Confucius say never pick fight with two people who hate to lose and have more money than you.

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2 hours ago, LB 15 said:

Busy Night for the Tailban earlier this week. They should have studied history before picking their latest shitfight. Just when Hitler was set to invade england for some reason he started another war with Russia.

Confucius say never pick fight with two people who hate to lose and have more money than you.

Seriously who is briefing these guys!

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Just a failed institution that has had to declare war on parts of it membership to try to survive

Not worth my time or interest

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26 minutes ago, Livia said:

Just a failed institution that has had to declare war on parts of it membership to try to survive

Not worth my time or interest

What? The Australian Army declaring war on the 2nd SAS? Yeah, yawnfest

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On 11/19/2020 at 9:21 PM, Dark Cloud said:

Yeah, why the obfuscation ? Them cunts have some sort of power?

Let’s just say legal bulling via deformation is a common tactic of some people when cornered.

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On 11/11/2020 at 1:05 AM, LB 15 said:

How come Scandinavian chicks never smile? 

Because they are practicing after surgery protocol for lip augmentation?

303FF737-8405-4C38-9E6D-4A101269FA56.jpeg

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On 11/4/2020 at 10:08 AM, TheUltimateSockPuppet said:

I think it's closer to $7000 per annum - $3000 per six months for the berth plus $1000 for membership. I've heard on the grapevine that a scooter racing track is planned for a soon to be vacated hardstand spot... watch this space

No, on the latest figures put out by the ex-commodores, since 2017 my yearly membership fee has been the equivalent to $3025.25 each year above the ordinary full membership of $1050.

I don't think the figures are quite right myself as some of the claims don't stand up,  but they are still several thousand above the ordinary fee.

So 592 members support the rest of the club.

Guess you would not have too many Finns or Lasers sailing there if they were charged $4000 per year for membership.

And people can't understand why I might be pissed.

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55 minutes ago, Livia said:

No, on the latest figures put out by the ex-commodores, since 2017 my yearly membership fee has been the equivalent to $3025.25 each year above the ordinary full membership of $1050.

I don't think the figures are quite right myself as some of the claims don't stand up,  but they are still several thousand above the ordinary fee.

So 592 members support the rest of the club.

Guess you would not have too many Finns or Lasers sailing there if they were charged $4000 per year for membership.

And people can't understand why I might be pissed.

I hear another EGM is on the cards

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It is funny how a member who resigned is not allowed to be a guest on a members boat in a event but a member that is expelled is allowed to take part in club events.

Obviously has better friends.

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8 minutes ago, Livia said:

It is funny how a member who resigned is not allowed to be a guest on a members boat in a event but a member that is expelled is allowed to take part in club events.

Obviously has better friends.

Resigned member should start throwing more furniture around you think?

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Another person who has given greatly to the sport but has now left it.

Another victory.

He seems pretty happy living his van life surfing northern NSW right now.

Bastard!

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17 hours ago, TheUltimateSockPuppet said:

I hear another EGM is on the cards

It is on. A group led by a past Commodore has requested an EGM for the Commodore and the treasurer to explain where the money has gone. Well at least $300k has been spent on legal fees to reduce the size of their fleets. 

I am not sure if this meeting is to be combined with the rules nights that are apparently compulsory for any skipper entering the Wednesday afternoon race. Apparently these muppets did not understand that the Port/Starboard rule as it applies in some cases in Waterloo bay and east of Noosa. Please note this information is for Club races and may not apply at other clubs races such as the Sydney to Hobart race.

 

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14 hours ago, Livia said:

Another person who has given greatly to the sport but has now left it.

Another victory.

He seems pretty happy living his van life surfing northern NSW right now.

Bastard!

The Van conversation has come up great - it is nicer than either of my boats! You don’t have to join a van club, pay any fees to ‘Australian Vanlife’ or pay extra if I want to take some friends vanning with me. 

Best of all is that in van life wealthy cunts with big flash vans still have to give way to the right. 

@vanlife @byronbayisashithole @wherecanihaveadump

follow me @no-sand-in-the-van on instagram.

238F3FDD-7AAB-4298-AFF7-94B734B1F752.jpeg

F7CE9C1C-1E0D-42F5-8184-29E11EA54331.jpeg

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2 hours ago, LB 15 said:

The Van conversation has come up great - it is nicer than either of my boats! You don’t have to join a van club, pay any fees to ‘Australian Vanlife’ or pay extra if I want to take some friends vanning with me. 

Best of all is that in van life wealthy cunts with big flash vans still have to give way to the right.

To be fair, you don't have to do any of that if you own a cruising boat and don't belong to a snooty yacht club either.

And if you have a steel boat with no insurance, everyone gives way to you. In fact, they go out of their way to give you sea room. People are so friendly - if you have the right boat...

FKT

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FKT, if you seen the outside of LBs van everyone stays clear of it, it sort of looks like has been used on a ATM ram raid or is a mobile meth lab.

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20 hours ago, TheUltimateSockPuppet said:

I hear another EGM is on the cards

Not thought through and doomed to fail!

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12 minutes ago, Livia said:

FKT, if you seen the outside of LBs van everyone stays clear of it, it sort of looks like has been used on a ATM ram raid or is a mobile meth lab.

If you look like an old tradie van that has done the Dakar Rally you get away with ‘stealth camping’ in the ‘burbs. You just need to wake up early, have a dump in the nearest park and fuck off.

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31 minutes ago, Livia said:

Not thought through and doomed to fail!

Interesting to see how it runs out now considering the shoe is on the other foot so to speak with respect to the last Marina EGM

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4 hours ago, LB 15 said:

The Van conversation has come up great

When are you starting the conversion ? 

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Just now, 44forty said:

When are you starting the conversion ? 

I am dyslexic, so get funked you count!

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Just now, LB 15 said:

I am dyslexic, so get funked you count!

Funk orf back to your vang 

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4 hours ago, TheUltimateSockPuppet said:

Interesting to see how it runs out now considering the shoe is on the other foot so to speak with respect to the last Marina EGM

It is like Steve Smith opening the Batting for England.

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5 hours ago, LB 15 said:

If you look like an old tradie van that has done the Dakar Rally you get away with ‘stealth camping’ in the ‘burbs. You just need to wake up early, have a dump in the nearest park and fuck off.

My mates & I used to do that back in the day in an old Bedford van, We even fitted a 'Silent Knight' kerosene refrigerator to keep the beer cold.

Hard to believe that was 50 years ago now.

FKT

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12 minutes ago, Fah Kiew Tu said:

My mates & I used to do that back in the day in an old Bedford van, We even fitted a 'Silent Knight' kerosene refrigerator to keep the beer cold.

Hard to believe that was 50 years ago now.

FKT

A ladder on the roof and some removable magnetic signs that say 'Jims sewage pipe cleaning' also helps to get people to leave you alone.

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20 minutes ago, TheUltimateSockPuppet said:

Worserer than that

It is like walking through West End and seeing a sign for 'Shlomo Goldstein - Pork Butcher'.

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Also, can someone explain to me how the port starboard mono, Beachball was written off but then was sailing again in a short time?  

 

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4 hours ago, Factor said:

Also, can someone explain to me how the port starboard mono, Beachball was written off but then was sailing again in a short time?  

 

It's a miracle!

As I was reading the morning newspaper yesterday I noticed with interest yet another article about everyone's favorite yacht club.

Tycoon calls on elite yacht club to explain ‘blatant rip-off’
Property tycoon Kevin Miller and high-flying members of the Royal Queensland Yacht Squadron are demanding answers over “over the top” fees and use of club funds.
 
Kylie Lang
exclusive
December 8, 2020 - 6:27PM
The Courier-Mail
 
Property tycoon Kevin Miller and other high-flying members of the elite Royal Queensland Yacht Squadron are demanding transparency around the club’s finances, urging the board to ditch the “smokescreen” amid exorbitant fee hikes.
 
Mr Miller, who twice held the top job of commodore at the salubrious Manly club and is a life member, is seeking a special general meeting with officials, saying requests for “detailed accountability” have been ignored.
 
Half-yearly marina berth fees have jumped over 30 per cent – totalling $2.15 million for 2020-21 – despite assurances any increases would be modest, according to angry members who contacted The Courier-Mail.
 
Mr Miller, the brains behind Centro on James in the Valley and The Barracks in Petrie Terrace, is being supported by fellow developer Russell McCart and other wealthy members in calls to lose the “smokescreen”.
 
At issue, according to Mr Miller, is how the sizeable assets of the RQYS Marina Ltd, which in 2016 included 42 berths and $961,951 in cash, have been used, and “how bad the financial position of the squadron is to justify this blatant rip-off of a section of the membership”.
 
This is not the first time the 135-year-old club has come under fire for an alleged lack of transparency.
 
In July, The Courier-Mail exposed alleged misuse of government COVID-19 relief funds, and in August whistleblower Mike Freebairn was expelled. The club denied any wrongdoing at the time.
 
On the weekend, berth holders were alerted to Mr Miller’s meeting request, and sent a copy of his November 25 email to squadron officials.
 
In the correspondence from a fellow berth holder, they were told the “emergency” meeting would question how club bosses “can charge whatever they wish for outgoings” and “captive members shall pay whatever is charged or lose their subleases”.
 
It said “previous attempts at a conciliatory approach had either been ignored or resulted in a meeting designed to deflect the financial issues”.
 
Mr Miller’s November 25 email followed an unsatisfactory meeting the week prior.
 
“The seriously strong message the berth holders attending expressed (on November 17) was the complete lack of detailed accountability and lack of communication from the board in recent years,” he said.
 
Referring to the significant 2016 assets of the RQYS Marina, Mr Miller said: “Where did those funds go?”
 
“The berths, with a saleable value of close to $3 million provided in excess of $300,000 p.a. income to the Marina Co, which now goes to the squadron directly,” he said.
 
“Surely those funds should be set aside for the rebuilding or reconfiguration of the marina in 20 years’ time rather than seeking a further $280,000 p.a. for a maintenance fund contribution in addition to the actual maintenance costs expended.”
 
Mr Miller, who was commodore in 2013-1015 and 2006-2008, said leases had been able to incur other charges since 1984.
 
“However, only since 2015 has the current general manager (Shawn Ket) sought to add indirect wages and other costs into the equation to the extent of $330,773 in the 2021 budget, and heaven knows what in the 2019 and 2020 years to create the so-called non-full recovery which needs a clearer analysis before being credible.”
 
He said the squadron had received over $360,000 a year from the redirection of rental commissions and live-aboard fees since 2016.
 
“Even the most ardent supporter of fairness amongst squadron entities would surely find this over the top,” he said.
 
Responding to the allegations, Mr Ket said the board had decided to appoint an independent auditor to carry out a review of the calculation methodology of the half yearly sub-sublease charges.
 
“Given we’ve had these assertions from past commodore Miller and the magnitude of the rise this year, we consider it a good idea to look at the way charges are calculated to seek an outcome that is in the best interests of all members, not necessarily individuals or sub groups,” Mr Ket said.
 
The auditor had yet to be appointed but it was hoped the review would be underway before the end of the year, with Mr Miller’s requested meeting to be held in late January or early February.
 
He said charges for sub-subleases for berth holders had in some instances used methodology that had been in place for more than 30 years and had remained consistent over time.

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1 hour ago, LB 15 said:

It's a miracle!

As I was reading the morning newspaper yesterday I noticed with interest yet another article about everyone's favorite yacht club.

The story is poorly written.  Does not explain the problem clearly enough for the average Courier Mail reader.

Just makes it sound like a bitch fight.

Shame really, I had my fees double one year, so I sacked them for failing to give me a good reason.

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2 hours ago, LB 15 said:
.....we consider it a good idea to look at the way charges are calculated to seek an outcome that is in the best interests of all members, not necessarily individuals or sub groups,” Mr Ket said.
 
The auditor had yet to be appointed but it was hoped the review would be underway before the end of the year

So you pick numbers out of your arse (to fix up other numbers you have fucked up) and send out invoices for the new charges.

Then when people complain you then go to "look at the way charges are calculated."

Don't know what all the fucking fuss is about. :rolleyes:

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11 hours ago, astro said:

The story is poorly written.  Does not explain the problem clearly enough for the average Courier Mail reader.

 

Most Courier Mail readers tend to be pretty average. I only read it to find out what’s happening at the club. RQ appears in the paper almost as often as the crossword. 

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And here is different but related shitfight they have going. One of many. Fuck I love that place...

C763FEE6-53A5-4A46-961A-FC0456168BBB.jpeg

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From the go fund me page...

Mike has been a member of Rqys for 37 years however he has been expelled after he asked, on behalf of himself and others, what assistance might be available during the Covid pandemic. 

The Squadron was not transparent in what support it had been offered nor what help might be available. 

Despite the General Manager telling DTMR that he was open to offering a seabed lease rent waiver to non commercial berth holders who could prove their income was affected this did not happen. 

Mike asked questions that the Squadron reacted to aggressively and then pursued his expulsion. This went as far as paying members of what was supposed to be an independent review board. 

Mike now has to appeal this in process in court.

For those who don't know Mike he has a very unassuming character and is very generous with his time when it comes to introducing people to sailing and supporting boat owners.  This may be welcoming onboard his boat for Wednesday sailing, catching peoples lines and offering his wealth of knowledge where possible or checking on owners boats in the middle of the night after a storm. 

Mike has invested significantly in the Squadron, has introduced trade to the Squadron and it's trade tennants through his Brokerage business and introduced many members.

Mike is looking to overturn his expulsion not only to be able to return to a club he has taught sailing at, grown up sailing dinghies and represented in many regatta and offshore races, but also to be able to offer his services to members, introduce new members and be able to support his two sons who are keen sailors.

Rather than look to help Mike and others get through this difficult time the Squadron has elected to spend extraordinary amounts of money to expel him. Money that could have been far better used to actually promote the sport sailing and introduce newcomers.

Please support Mike in this David and Goliath battle. Any excess funds will be used to assist schools racing of which Mike is a past national champion and keen supporter.

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And speaking of shitfights... avid followers of the Squadron will recall how one of the Commodores crew mates, was found guilty of assaulting  his partner while armed. Despite the constitution saying that a member can be expelled for having a criminal conviction they, didn’t throw him out until he used the fact that he would be lose his membership to over turn his conviction. 

This caused a shitstorm in the press and even a member of parliament got involved telling the Squadron to expell him.

Odd that they waited 12 months to act against him when they normally take action against other members within days (unless they are friends of the flag officers of course)

Anyway he is back and was seen out enjoying the Wednesday afternoon race the other day.

it is an odd place...

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Hopefully Greasy Al will be along shortly to defend ‘the Squadron’ from these vicious and unfounded attacks. 

Unless he owns a marina berth of course...

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1 hour ago, LB 15 said:

And speaking of shitfights... avid followers of the Squadron will recall how one of the Commodores crew mates, was found guilty of assaulting  his partner while armed. Despite the constitution saying that a member can be expelled for having a criminal conviction they, didn’t throw him out until he used the fact that he would be lose his membership to over turn his conviction. 

This caused a shitstorm in the press and even a member of parliament got involved telling the Squadron to expell him.

Odd that they waited 12 months to act against him when they normally take action against other members within days (unless they are friends of the flag officers of course)

Anyway he is back and was seen out enjoying the Wednesday afternoon race the other day.

it is an odd place...

So maybe you will be welcome back. Why don't you crew a boat next week :)

 

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Great to be getting some “meat in the sandwhich” in this thread at last . The story is fleshing out somewhat and certain cryptic dots are aligning on the cryptogram  . Still trying to work out who greasy Al is and why 8 hands has gone to multi hull thread to talk about winches 

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1 hour ago, The Dark Knight said:

So maybe you will be welcome back. Why don't you crew a boat next week :)

 

I am am member of Queensland premier offshore racing club - QCYC. And btw entries are now open for the states oldest and most prestigious Yacht race, the 73rd Brisbane to Gladstone yacht race.

https://www.brisbanetogladstone.com/race-entry/

And lets not forget the 28th edition of the Surf to City Yacht race.

https://www.surftocity.com/home/

What a great sailing club it is!

 

 

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32 minutes ago, 44forty said:

Great to be getting some “meat in the sandwhich” in this thread at last . The story is fleshing out somewhat and certain cryptic dots are aligning on the cryptogram  . Still trying to work out who greasy Al is and why 8 hands has gone to multi hull thread to talk about winches 

Well at least he isn't here. I would think he is keeping his head down now after years of being an apologist for the Club leadership group's behaviour. Oh course he may just have gone bankrupt again...

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2 hours ago, TheUltimateSockPuppet said:

I don't imagine @LB 15 would be willing to dirty his knees.

There will need to be a few heads on a plate before I would join that club again. But the winds of change have started to blow and the vast majority of members are great people - and friends of mine. So never say never.

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