Dumb Trapeze Question

[posaune 7]

I've been reading the "teaching beginners to trapeze" thread with interest, as I'm attempting to teach myself on a singlehanded boat with no previous trap experience at all. The learning curve is steep, at least for me.

One thing I've noticed while watching as many videos as I could find is that most rigs are different from mine, but I can't seem to find the right detail pics to sort out exactly what I need. Attached is a pic of my setup as currently rigged. Would you place the bungee in a different place?

Disclaimer: I realize 100% that changing bungee position is going to do nothing for my [lack of] ability, but I'd like to limit making things harder on myself as much as possible anyway.

 

[Admiral Hornblower 189]

Usually there is a place to tie the bugie to near the block, but I don't seem to to see a attachment point on that trapeze ring

This one has a loop right below the block that I would tie the elastic to.

Having the elastic tied to the bottom of the ring  will get in the way when your trying to hook one.

[solus 1]

I suspect that the block is turned inside the handle and should be flipped like the one shown above. tie the bungee to the bail on the block and deadend the adjuster line on the cleat.

With the setup you have the line is probably going jump off the block and jam between the side of the block and the hook.  

 

[Major Tom 379]

You only need a 2:1 on the trap height adjustment, as per the above post I am sure the top block has rotated, the becket is for attaching the elastic.

[martin 'hoff 721]

Solus and Major Tom have the answer.

[dburchfiel 89]

2:1 is normal but I've had a few 70 yr. olds crew for me who could have used a 3:1.

I had the little eye on my trap rings break about 10 tears ago.  I made my own by tying a piece of spectra around the ring.  I take a loop of bungee bass it between the spectra and the top of the ring and then around the bottom.  Luggage tagging it.

[JimC 671]

48 minutes ago, dburchfiel said:

Luggage tagging it.

yep. Big permanent loop in the bungee and round. Saves time rigging and derigging too.

[posaune 7]

Thanks all, for the replies. It seems to make much more sense to have that block turned around. I didn't even consider that! Yes, as it is, the line DOES get in the way and sometimes get caught up and the bungee does cause problems on the hook (and the velcro near it). It also has a strong tendency to want to pull the ring off the hook at the slightest encouragement.

I always assume that I'm the problem with these things, and I'm sure I'm a big part of it, but as I watched those videos, it seems that my setup was causing more issues than it needed to. I'll try re-doing it tomorrow.

[CaptainAhab 155]

15 hours ago, posaune said:

 

 

The typical setup is the upper part is an integrated clam cleat with block and becket. The line starts at the cleat goes down to the bail block then back up to the cleat. You can attach the bungee to the bail block. 

[posaune 7]

Ok, the pic from the front (with the car in the background) is what it was before. As I understand it, the other pic should be correct. Seem right? 

[martin 'hoff 721]

Looks good to me! The line is too long, perhaps you haven't cut it to length yet.

[posaune 7]

6 minutes ago, martin 'hoff said:

Looks good to me! The line is too long, perhaps you haven't cut it to length yet.

Thanks! And yeah, I didn't cut it at all. It seemed long even with the extra block. 

[martin 'hoff 721]

Right. One tip here is - you'll want the figure eight knot to be at "max length" and to have a palm-length tail, or even longer, so you "drop to knot" (lowest trapezing position), and still have something to grab when you want to trapeze higher (just before a maneuver).

[posaune 7]

6 minutes ago, martin 'hoff said:

Right. One tip here is - you'll want the figure eight knot to be at "max length" and to have a palm-length tail, or even longer, so you "drop to knot" (lowest trapezing position), and still have something to grab when you want to trapeze higher (just before a maneuver).

Excellent. Will do. Thanks again. 

This will be one thing less to fight with on the boat, which is definitely good.

[Admiral Hornblower 189]

What is the boat your learning to trapeze on?

5 hours ago, posaune said:

Excellent. Will do. Thanks again. 

This will be one thing less to fight with on the boat, which is definitely good.

 

[maxstaylock 186]

Not liking how the clam cleat is attached to the handle, a spectra lashing or 2 shackles would be better, if you must use that handle.

[posaune 7]

4 hours ago, maxstaylock said:

Not liking how the clam cleat is attached to the handle, a spectra lashing or 2 shackles would be better, if you must use that handle.

Hmm, ok. That might be something to look into for next season.

5 hours ago, Admiral Hornblower said:

What is the boat your learning to trapeze on?

 

Swift Solo. Why not add the complications of a jib and spinnaker to a first trapeze experience? Wheeee! 

[Admiral Hornblower 189]

9 hours ago, posaune said:

Hmm, ok. That might be something to look into for next season.

Swift Solo. Why not add the complications of a jib and spinnaker to a first trapeze experience? Wheeee! 

Thanks. Got any pics of your boat?

[Mozzy Sails 651]

Always just slightly annoys me that people call that trapeze system a 2:1, when it is actually a 3:1... unless you aren't lifting your own weight an are instead just tension the elastics. 

That trapeze hoop looks broken. I'm not sure the block should rotate relative to hoop. 

Regarding the elastic attachment it's most often luggage tagged on to the block. I prefer to use a bobble and loop, then you don't have the loop from the luggage tag to accidentally hook into.  

Some top 49er helms tie the shockcord to the hoop itself though, like your initial setup. This disengages the hoop from your hook quicker when you remove your body weight (good when you're doing handle to handle manoeuvres).  It reduced the chances of being accidentally staying hooked on through a tack or gybe. But it does make it a bit harder to hook on and stay hooked on when moving in and out. 

[posaune 7]

11 hours ago, Admiral Hornblower said:

Thanks. Got any pics of your boat?

No good ones, I'm afraid. Generally when I'm around it, I'm too concerned with sailing it. Nobody else at the lake is competent enough with a camera to get any pics. I should work on changing that....

I didn't build it though, fwiw. I wish I had, and I've wanted to since the minute I saw the first one. It's a boat I've always lusted after- ability be damned. 

10 hours ago, Mozzy Sails said:

Always just slightly annoys me that people call that trapeze system a 2:1, when it is actually a 3:1... unless you aren't lifting your own weight an are instead just tension the elastics. 

That trapeze hoop looks broken. I'm not sure the block should rotate relative to hoop. 

Regarding the elastic attachment it's most often luggage tagged on to the block. I prefer to use a bobble and loop, then you don't have the loop from the luggage tag to accidentally hook into.  

Some top 49er helms tie the shockcord to the hoop itself though, like your initial setup. This disengages the hoop from your hook quicker when you remove your body weight (good when you're doing handle to handle manoeuvres).  It reduced the chances of being accidentally staying hooked on through a tack or gybe. But it does make it a bit harder to hook on and stay hooked on when moving in and out. 

The hoop isn't broken. It's quite difficult to move that block back into position and it'll stay wherever it's put.

I took the boat out briefly today, and I noticed what you said. I'm happy to have it not come off as easily when I don't want it to, but when I DID want it to, it didn't just do it on its own as before. Oh well, as I said in the beginning, I realize that my problems are mine and not the setup's. I'll just keep working on sucking less. :-)

 

 

[Dave S 90]

On 8/14/2020 at 2:45 PM, Mozzy Sails said:

Some top 49er helms tie the shockcord to the hoop itself though, like your initial setup. This disengages the hoop from your hook quicker when you remove your body weight (good when you're doing handle to handle manoeuvres).  It reduced the chances of being accidentally staying hooked on through a tack or gybe. But it does make it a bit harder to hook on and stay hooked on when moving in and out. 

Are they hooking themselves on, or going out on the handle and then having their crew hook them on? If you're not having to hook yourself on as part of the tack, it makes sense to prioritise reliable/efficient unhooking.

[Mozzy Sails 651]

Tacking they're hooking themselves on with the tiller hand when out on the wire. 

Gybing they're either hooking on then stepping out, or getting the crew to hook them on. You do see a few instances of hooking on themselves whilst out on the handle after a gybe, but tends to be lighter winds when higher wiring and done totally with the hips. In more breeze you can't use the tiller hand downwind as you can't get it across the body. 

Anyway, having typed all that, I can't find a picture or video that shows it. I thought it was a German boat, either Heil and Ploessel or Fischer and Graf, but I can only see a regular attachment now! 

Edit... It was Schmidt and Boehme