Alaris

What is the closest 40’er to a TP52?

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Bob P’s TP52 thread had me wondering. These things seem to be all that and a bag of chips. They’ve always been fast but really seem to have been refined to the top of the sport or close to it after so many years and iterations. 

What’s the boat in the 40’ range that most closely approximates the attributes of the 52? Points high, flies downwind, lightweight. Carkeek 40?

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GP42 or some Fast 40

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10 minutes ago, Sebyseb said:

GP42 or some Fast 40

Ker 40 points better, but is slower than the GP42 according to the ORC certs. I would imagine the Carkeek Mark IV Ran would be pretty well up there. Unfortunately, I couldn't find any certificates for the Carkeeks. 

Capture.PNG

GP42.PNG

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There was a Lutra 42 in Charleston for a while.  It looked close.

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Closest 40ish footer I've seen to a 52 was the botin 44 Interlodge. The 44 was regularly faster than the 52s downwind at BIRW last year. 

Ker 40+ is pretty close as well

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To be clear I don’t mean closest in performance, I mean closest in design brief and characteristics. 

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I believe that was the design goal of the Rogers 46 at the time it was designed.  RP45 seems close as well.

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1 hour ago, jackolantern said:

Closest 40ish footer I've seen to a 52 was the botin 44 Interlodge. The 44 was regularly faster than the 52s downwind at BIRW last year. 

Ker 40+ is pretty close as well

Jackolantern nailed it, as far as I'm aware this boat fits the original request perfectly. Yes, Fast40s eg Rán are right there too, but the Interlodge is a teenage 52. 

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The RP45 Criminal Mischief/Lady Kanon is a solid inshore/offshore platform. 

 

All in all, though the Ker 40/40+ has to be it given the number of boats built as well as the success of the design in both inshore and offshore racing..

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1 hour ago, ASP said:

The RP45 Criminal Mischief/Lady Kanon is a solid inshore/offshore platform. 

 

There’s one on the east coast. It rarely beats 52s and hasn’t since they lost a couple key crew. 
 

Those are 06/07 designs. They’re closest in design brief to the original transpac era 52s like Pegasus or Esmerelda

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7 minutes ago, jackolantern said:

There’s one on the east coast. It rarely beats 52s and hasn’t since they lost a couple key crew. 
 

Those are 06/07 designs. They’re closest in design brief to the original transpac era 52s like Pegasus or Esmerelda

Is that the former Sjambok or a similar design?

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56 minutes ago, Alaris said:

Is that the former Sjambok or a similar design?

Yes, Pterodactyl

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5 minutes ago, trimfast said:

Yes, Pterodactyl

To my recollection when she was on the Chesapeake, fast boat but aggressively rated. 

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Hollywood (Boltin 40) just gave a TP 52 a giant touch up here at AIrlie Beach Race week.And not just any TP but according to the TP’s PR team it is not only the fastest and best prepared TP in the country the crew are the greatest ever assembled and are all hung like rouge elephants. Little wonder they only do about 3 races every year.

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6 minutes ago, LB 15 said:

Hollywood (Boltin 40) just gave a TP 52 a giant touch up here at AIrlie Beach Race week.And not just any TP but according to the TP’s PR team it is not only the fastest and best prepared TP in the country the crew are the greatest ever assembled and are all hung like rouge elephants. Little wonder they only do about 3 races every year.

Is a "rouge elephant" like a pink elephant with a trust fund?

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To find out, all one has to do is measure the amount of water from the leaks at the end of a torrid race. 
On that measurement stick, the Botin 40’s would have to be a close contender. 

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1 hour ago, Left Shift said:

Is a "rouge elephant" like a pink elephant with a trust fund?

Give me a break shifty - such is my hangover today that I am heading out to try and catch the ‘rona so I feel better.

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13 minutes ago, LB 15 said:

Give me a break shifty - such is my hangover today that I am heading out to try and catch the ‘rona so I feel better.

The shit you saye somethimes......... Thet is badde..................             :)

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1 hour ago, LB 15 said:

Give me a break shifty - such is my hangover today that I am heading out to try and catch the ‘rona so I feel better.

Try Bondi Beach, maybe join some rugby scrum.  That should do it. :)

 

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6 hours ago, ericrayl said:

I believe that was the design goal of the Rogers 46 at the time it was designed.  RP45 seems close as well.

I finished a 380nm race on a Rogers 46 sandwiched between two TP's over the line. Majority of the race was downhill, canting Cookson 50 in front of all of us. RP46 about 2 hours behind us. Modern TP would smoke us all. 

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9 hours ago, trimfast said:

Ker 40 points better, but is slower than the GP42 according to the ORC certs. I would imagine the Carkeek Mark IV Ran would be pretty well up there. Unfortunately, I couldn't find any certificates for the Carkeeks. 

Capture.PNG

GP42.PNG

That is/was my Ker40, in reality the GP42's struggle to beat us over the line. the performance curve is very similar to a TP52. 

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3 hours ago, OW1981 said:

I finished a 380nm race on a Rogers 46 sandwiched between two TP's over the line. Majority of the race was downhill, canting Cookson 50 in front of all of us. RP46 about 2 hours behind us. Modern TP would smoke us all. 

A 380nm race on one of the MedCup 52's would most likely not be a pleasant experience.

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That is/was my Ker40, in reality the GP42's struggle to beat us over the line. the performance curve is very similar to a TP52

Final verdict available??

Steve has the Icebreaker up for sale in NZ as a replacement.

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Shaw 11 or 12 (Blink)

nico2.jpg

Soto 40 also an eligible contender, from the looks, but they are raced as OD, so no idea.

perrysoto400910.1474.png

 

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7 hours ago, Matagi said:

Shaw 11 or 12 (Blink)

nico2.jpg

Soto 40 also an eligible contender, from the looks, but they are raced as OD, so no idea.

perrysoto400910.1474.png

 

I looked at the Soto rating while looking at the Ker40 above. It was knocked out of relevance just for ratings to ratings comparison. 

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Would be much more entertaining to discuss which TP52s are sailed at a level of modern 40 footers? I can think of one or two. 

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13 hours ago, OW1981 said:

I finished a 380nm race on a Rogers 46 sandwiched between two TP's over the line. Majority of the race was downhill, canting Cookson 50 in front of all of us. RP46 about 2 hours behind us. Modern TP would smoke us all. 

But how well were they hung?

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4 hours ago, trimfast said:

I looked at the Soto rating while looking at the Ker40 above. It was knocked out of relevance just for ratings to ratings comparison. 

Do tell...

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8 minutes ago, Matagi said:

Do tell...

It is over a knot slower than the two above. 36.8° at 5 kts vmg  in 16kts for the Soto. 

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I see, thanks

Blink would have an IRC rating of 1.362, that puts them inTP 52 territory, I think?

blinkBerthed01.jpg

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31 minutes ago, bodega87 said:

And you'd need 10x that for a new mast, rigging and sails. 

Plus more for hull repair especially to the cracked transom/topsides/deck joint

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I own a Soto 40. We race against a GP42 and win often (haven't raced this year) with PHRF and beat them last year on the Chicago Mac (ORR). Its not all carbon so a poor man's 52 I guess but it performs well for its rating. Set up nearly the same as a 52 but no grinder.

-000

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The carbon rig would be an expensive replacement but 2 mains,5 jibs, 2 spinnakers and one spinnaker staysail are there and the topside hull damage seems to only be at the port transom.That’s easy work for someone like me who does it for a living.

 Anyway, someone just bought it to re-rig it and do what Alaris is talking about in this thread so good luck to them and don’t think  your going to win anything with a suit of 3 year old rags...

 

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Yep. 
 

not 

 

worth 

a

 

t

h

i

n

g

.

67981136-A9A9-49CA-94E0-3116946F3EF6.jpeg

944F9807-3858-47FE-AEDB-00C0BFB3AB9D.jpeg

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That will buff out.

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On 8/14/2020 at 3:01 AM, Matagi said:

Shaw 11 or 12 (Blink)

nico2.jpg

Soto 40 also an eligible contender, from the looks, but they are used to be raced as OD, so no idea.

perrysoto400910.1474.png

 

there, fify. very little to none od nowadays. but yeah, they'd be the 40' tps

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How 'bout one of these for your answer?   100% carbon hull, deck, rig, foils.   Pedestal grinder and string drops.    similar to the 52 in crew roles, with similar sail controls.    its an easy boat to own, has a road trailer, it's very light and you can even stand up in it

 

243388715_Image8-20-20at3_27PM.jpeg.5e887aa2184753e2ce2da5fc1cddbf15.jpeg

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7 minutes ago, 1sailor said:

How 'bout one of these for your answer?   100% carbon hull, deck, rig, foils.   Pedestal grinder and string drops.    similar to the 52 in crew roles, with similar sail controls.    its an easy boat to own, has a road trailer, it's very light and you can even stand up in it

 

243388715_Image8-20-20at3_27PM.jpeg.5e887aa2184753e2ce2da5fc1cddbf15.jpeg

What is it?

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1 minute ago, Alaris said:

What is it?

How do you stand up in that? ...Lay flat on the floor with an eretion? 

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11 minutes ago, 10thTonner said:

How do you stand up in that? ...Lay flat on the floor with an eretion? 

granted i'm only 5'9" but yeah I can stand up in it

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18 minutes ago, Alaris said:

What is it?

turbo'd farr 400 with a nose job, some old guys on deck and a ton of kids having fun in harbor springs

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Question number one, Mister Speaker!

(i.e. whats it rate?)

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