What is it?

[Icedtea 144]

 

 

 

https://www.donedeal.ie/sailing-for-sale/yacht/25362869?campaign=14

 

A very pretty 28ft wooden yacht - 1975 is supposedly when it was built but the keel looks newer. 

Someone has spent a lot of money on it in the last few years no doubt.

Says it's a David Thomas design, I can't find it on this site

Any ideas?

[George Hackett 54]

Well, it look like an IOR boat with the stern filled in. Almost Mull-ish looking? 

[Icedtea 144]

6 minutes ago, George Hackett said:

Well, it look like an IOR boat with the stern filled in. Almost Mull-ish looking? 

Don't think so- as far as I got was it is called "Tambourine" 

 

[Black Sox 660]

Interesting stern. I don’t immediately see where the outboard hangs.

@TwoLegged may have some info.

[TUBBY 298]

It's a nightmare to keep looking like that in Oz sunshine.

& a much loved boat to look like that at her age.

[boguing 16]

There certainly was a similarly lovely-looking David Thomas wooden boat and despite walking past it at Hamble Point most days for months I can't remember its name... somewhere around 25-27 feet. I don't think it's the boat in the picture. I'm also fairly sure that David never did a rudder like that.

[12 metre 344]

9 minutes ago, boguing said:

There certainly was a similarly lovely looking David Thomas wooden boat and despite walking past it at Hamble Point most days for months I can't remember its name... somewhere around 25-27 feet. I don't think it's the boat in the picture. I'm also fairly sure that David never did a rudder like that.

He did do a similar rudder on the 3/4T Liz of Lymington - at least similar as far as the skeg/rudder combination went,

The boat in the OP has a lot of similarities to a Thomas QT, but I don't think it is.  He usually incorporated a bit of a wraparound transom like on his QT Purple Haze.

The keel is most likely not the original.  Few if any IOR boats had bulbs.  Definitely an early days bulb though because it is pretty atrocious IMO

 

[boguing 16]

10 minutes ago, 12 metre said:

He did do a similar rudder on the 3/4T Liz of Lymington - at least similar as far as the skeg/rudder combination went,

I sit corrected!

[SloopJonB 7,976]

57 minutes ago, 12 metre said:

 Few if any IOR boats had bulbs.

Weren't bulbs essentially illegal under IOR?

No wider at the bottom than the top or something like that.

[12 metre 344]

8 minutes ago, SloopJonB said:

Weren't bulbs essentially illegal under IOR?

No wider at the bottom than the top or something like that.

Nope.  I think Bob Miller (aka Ben Lexcen) tried one but the boat was such a dog that nobody followed up on it.  There was speculation that with IOR boats bulbs probably created too much pitching moment for the benefit.

But the most likely reason for the lack of bulbs under IOR is because of the CGF part of IOR which didn't like low VCG.  Most boats strove to lower the CGF and made up for the low RM by stacking the rail.  Coincidentally, the Peterson style trapezoidal keel dovetailed with that quite nicely because not only was it an efficient planform, but it  had an inherently  high VCG.

[TwoLegged 809]

10 hours ago, Black Sox said:

Interesting stern. I don’t immediately see where the outboard hangs.

@TwoLegged may have some info.

She looks familiar, but from a long time ago.

My memory is no more specific than that

[TwoLegged 809]

9 hours ago, TUBBY said:

It's a nightmare to keep looking like that in Oz sunshine.

She's in Cork. That's a long way from Oz.

[Sail4beer 2,010]

13 hours ago, Icedtea said:

Any ideas?

Get your Irish ass into that boat and come over and take me for a ride, she’s a beauty!

[Snaggletooth 2,882]

3 minutes ago, Sail4beer said:

Get your Irish ass into that boat and come over and take me for a ride, she’s a beauty!

 

4 minutes ago, Sail4beer said:

13 hours ago, Icedtea said:

Any ideas?

Get your Irish ass into that boat and come over and take me for a ride, she’s a beauty!

Macke it happen, I cane be theire.....           

[Sail4beer 2,010]

We’ll Mc make it happen somehow! 
 

Just need that sheepherder to dream big, we deserve it!

[Priscilla 2,097]

Is it my ageing eyesight or has she been been re skinned  horizontally.

 

[stealth 3]

Sexy. Love varnished wooden boats.

 

[shanghaisailor 1,178]

13 hours ago, Black Sox said:

Interesting stern. I don’t immediately see where the outboard hangs.

@TwoLegged may have some info.

You are right, hanging the outboard can be challenging on those sloped sterns. THis arrangement took a lot of thought but works remarkably well although does require a bit of gymnastics at times. This is a Dubois One Off. Design 55. Somewhat smaller than the superyachts he became so famous for but nearly all retained that 'Dubois stern'. A lovely man taken too early. 

[shanghaisailor 1,178]

39 minutes ago, Priscilla said:

Is it my ageing eyesight or has she been been re skinned  horizontally.

 

Purple has IS a David Thomas design. She is the prototype Bolero Quarter TOnner than had a production run of around 35 or so I understand which is way less than the likes of his SIgma 33 or Sonata designs both of which saw literally hundreds built. Purple Haze won the 1st of the rejuvenated Quarter Ton Cups. Happy to say our other boat is a Bolero, lovely boat to sail 

[MRS OCTOPUS 118]

5 hours ago, 12 metre said:

Nope.  I think Bob Miller (aka Ben Lexcen) tried one but the boat was such a dog that nobody followed up on it.  There was speculation that with IOR boats bulbs probably created too much pitching moment for the benefit.

.

Not really.

Bob miller designed Mecedes III.  It was part of Australia’s winning team of three yachts in the 1967 Admiral’s Cup series in England, the premier international ocean racing series of this period, and the highest placed yacht overall in the series.

Mecedes III was was the first ocean racing yacht designed by Bob Miller (later Ben Lexcen) ... very 'fast' boat, about 38ft long, with a separate rudder and fin keel with bulb.

The IOR rule changed over the years. The IOR rule encouraged wide short boats with limited stability.

The Kiwis perfected this with unballasted centreboarders, until rule changes .

[Jono 41]

28 foot in 1975 makes it a 1/2 tonner

[12 metre 344]

2 hours ago, MRS OCTOPUS said:

Not really.

Bob miller designed Mecedes III.  It was part of Australia’s winning team of three yachts in the 1967 Admiral’s Cup series in England, the premier international ocean racing series of this period, and the highest placed yacht overall in the series.

Mecedes III was was the first ocean racing yacht designed by Bob Miller (later Ben Lexcen) ... very 'fast' boat, about 38ft long, with a separate rudder and fin keel with bulb.

The IOR rule changed over the years. The IOR rule encouraged wide short boats with limited stability.

The Kiwis perfected this with unballasted centreboarders, until rule changes .

Mercedes III was not the one I was thinking of.  The one I was thinking of was mid 70's, maybe a 3/4T?  Such forgetable performance I forget the name.  The bluff bow shapes Miller employed in that era didn't really encourage upwind performance, so there is that too.  Good offwind shape though.

[SloopJonB 7,976]

2 hours ago, MRS OCTOPUS said:

Not really.

Bob miller designed Mecedes III.  It was part of Australia’s winning team of three yachts in the 1967 Admiral’s Cup series in England, the premier international ocean racing series of this period, and the highest placed yacht overall in the series.

Mecedes III was was the first ocean racing yacht designed by Bob Miller (later Ben Lexcen) ... very 'fast' boat, about 38ft long, with a separate rudder and fin keel with bulb.

The IOR rule changed over the years. The IOR rule encouraged wide short boats with limited stability.

The Kiwis perfected this with unballasted centreboarders, until rule changes .

1967 was well before the IOR.

[Phil 15]

Sir Robbo ‘s Hot August Night. Changed keel not long after launch.

[MRS OCTOPUS 118]

17 minutes ago, SloopJonB said:

1967 was well before the IOR.

Sorta depends on ya time scale.

Mercedes III competed for more than one season.

Rated under many rating rules .

1969: Member of Admirals Cup team, finishing 2nd (+ Ragamuffin and  Koomooloo)

from...https://www.orc.org/index.asp?id=65

Between April 1967 and November 1968 the committee met on a number of occasions and the ORCC considered the draft of a new International Offshore Rule at its November 1968 meeting in London. It was then unanimously agreed to recommend to all national authorities that the Rule should become operative in the 1969 season.

[CaptainAhab 154]

Are you sure it’s not a Bruce Kirby design? That rudder looks like a scaled up Laser. 

[12 metre 344]

3 hours ago, MRS OCTOPUS said:

Mecedes III was was the first ocean racing yacht designed by Bob Miller (later Ben Lexcen) ... very 'fast' boat, about 38ft long, with a separate rudder and fin keel with bulb.

Found a somewhat crude drawing of Mercedes III.  No bulb evident...but did have a long keel.  How quaint.  Yeah I know, mid 60's design so not at all unusual for that era.

[MRS OCTOPUS 118]

16 minutes ago, 12 metre said:

Found a somewhat crude drawing of Mercedes III.  No bulb evident...but did have a long keel.  How quaint.  Yeah I know, mid 60's design so not at all unusual for that era.

Yer, 

Its hard to see any bulb involved in that lot.

Woopsie.

Appologies , BenBob  was keen to design a very 'fast' boat, about 38ft long, with a separate rudder and fin keel with bulb.

The above is what he ended up with.

From http://arhv.anmm.gov.au/objects/179684

I'll get my coat .

IOR severely penalised righting moment, so the bulb keels that had started to gain in popularity in the late 1960s disappeared.

From.....https://www.pbo.co.uk/boats/1970s-yacht-designs-that-have-stood-the-test-of-time-63143

[10thTonner 244]

6 hours ago, Priscilla said:

 

 

That tiny outboard looks cool. 

[Priscilla 2,097]

Tambourine built by Bob Hoare.

Passed away whilst in the lead racing Flying 15 aged 83.

https://flyingfifteen.wordpress.com/2012/09/09/bob-hoare-a-loss-of-one-of-my-childhood-heroes/

[Icedtea 144]

1 hour ago, Priscilla said:

Tambourine built by Bob Hoare.

Passed away whilst in the lead racing Flying 15 aged 83.

https://flyingfifteen.wordpress.com/2012/09/09/bob-hoare-a-loss-of-one-of-my-childhood-heroes/

Nice! Do you have any other details on the boat? Is it a half tonner, one off etc 

 

What a way to go, leading a race at 83

[Icedtea 144]

10 hours ago, Sail4beer said:

Get your Irish ass into that boat and come over and take me for a ride, she’s a beauty!

If you pay flights and elimate Coronavirus, yeah sure

[No Way 3]

Back to the original question; its a beautiful piece of cabinetwork and a joy to appreciate. Who gives a FF how it rated, or how it sailed or if it sailed in the Admirals Cup or not - just beautiful.

[12 metre 344]

9 hours ago, CaptainAhab said:

Are you sure it’s not a Bruce Kirby design? That rudder looks like a scaled up Laser. 

How many Lasers have skeg hung rudders?  Actually, nothing on that boat looks like anything Kirby has ever done.

8 hours ago, Priscilla said:

Tambourine built by Bob Hoare.

Passed away whilst in the lead racing Flying 15 aged 83.

https://flyingfifteen.wordpress.com/2012/09/09/bob-hoare-a-loss-of-one-of-my-childhood-heroes/

This seems to be the answer.

I found the boat on a Google image search and it was listed on the Apolloduck website as a Thomas 28, but no other details as the ad has been removed.

My best guess is it is some post IOR design, perhaps meant to rate primarily under CHS (IRC) but with a nod to IOR. 

It seems quite similar in concept to the lightish weight Stephen Jones Formula 28 circa 1984 which rated in at Half Ton, but was too small to be a truly competitive HT

[gewoon ik 45]

Tambourine is not in the list of histoiredeshalfes https://www.histoiredeshalfs.com/Half Liste.htm

 

[DickDastardly 227]

On 8/15/2020 at 5:11 PM, MRS OCTOPUS said:

 

http://www.mercedes3.com/press

 

[Livia 651]

On 8/15/2020 at 4:21 PM, Phil said:

Sir Robbo ‘s Hot August Night. Changed keel not long after launch.

Changed right before launch as designed keel was banned and an old discarded OMDF keel was fitted then moved slightly.

[Lynch 8]

David Thomas 28

Has just reappeared on Apolloduck.ie

1975 vintage and looks beautiful

Yours for €9950 (C$12000)

 

[Black Sox 660]

2 hours ago, Lynch said:

David Thomas 28

Has just reappeared on Apolloduck.ie

1975 vintage and looks beautiful

Yours for €9950 (C$12000)

 

Tempting. Would certainly get me some admiring looks when I rocked up to the club with it on the trailer.

The admiration would end once I started racing it, unfortunately.