JimBowie

Hope the Melges 15 Holds Resale Better than Melges 14

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What's so ouch about it? When new they were going for what? 9k? What's the expectation?

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Lots of extras

Blue rig $1,000, dolly $525, trailer $1,000 (approx), covers $600, bags $350. Total $3475. Plus $8900 for the Gold Boat - total $12,375. So 30% depreciation after 2 years.
I bought a good used 3 year old Laser a couple years ago with covers, trailer, dolly for $5000. New it would have been about $8500. So 40% after 3 years.

Not sure what any of this means...
 

 

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Looks like it is going at 48% of initial cost, based on Bill5s costing, that is a large discount/depreciation over such a short period.

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15 hours ago, Major Tom said:

Looks like it is going at 48% of initial cost, based on Bill5s costing, that is a large discount/depreciation over such a short period.

Whoops! I used $8900 for the boat in the ad - not $5,900. That is a deep cut.

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Jesus Christ kids, you don't buy a boat as an investment, especially not a new one. 

Where's the surprise? I'm more surprised that anyone's surprised.

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Looks slightly more for ready-2-sail package:

REQUEST A QUOTE

  • BOAT TYPE
    Select a BoatMelges 14 GoldMelges 14 BlueMelges 14 RedMelges 15 ClubMelges 15 One-DesignMelges 17Melges C ScowMelges E ScowMelges MCMelges Power 26Melges X BoatSkeetaNikki
    A quotation will be calculated based on your selections.
  • BASE PRICE
    $16,549.00
  • MELGES 15 ONE-DESIGN OPTIONS
    •  Melges 15 Dolly +$595.00
    •  Lifting Bridle +$45.00
    •  Trailer Package +$1,900.00
    •  40" Carbon Fiber Tiller Extension +$112.00
    •  Racing Sheets Kit +$285.00
    •  Sail Number Application +$60.00
    •  Custom Sail Number (No. 2-99) +$200.00
    •  Additional Main Sail +$745.00
    •  Additional Jib Sail +$365.00
    •  Additional Spinnaker +$695.00
    •  Full Deck Cover +$695.00
    •  Envelope Cover +$740.00
    •  Rudder Bag +$185.00
    •  Board Bag +$85.00
    •  Boom Bag +$115.00
    •  Mast Float +$67.00
    •  Tacktick Micro Compass +$349.00
    •  Velocitek Speed Puck +$399.00
    •  Mast Bracket for Velocitek Speed Puck +$59.00
    Base Price of the Melges 15 One-Design includes a main, jib, and asymmetrical spinnaker and spinnaker rigging.
  • PRICE INCLUDING OPTIONS (EXCLUDING TAX, VAT, SHIPPING)
    $16,549.00

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Small sport boat market in general is tough right now.  New boats are expensive.  Laser/ILCA Class "wannabe's" are flipping out over new boat prices north of $7,000.00.   Aero's, Melges, pretty much everything is north of $9k right now with PSA ILCA boats listing around $8,500.00 now that more NA dealers are coming on line and things are getting competitive.  It's just the way it is.

 

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24 minutes ago, RobbieB said:

Small sport boat market in general is tough right now.  New boats are expensive.  Laser/ILCA Class "wannabe's" are flipping out over new boat prices north of $7,000.00.   Aero's, Melges, pretty much everything is north of $9k right now with PSA ILCA boats listing around $8,500.00 now that more NA dealers are coming on line and things are getting competitive.  It's just the way it is.

 

I take real offense at this generalization.

For the record, I didn't just buy an ad, I bought the masthead banner ad spot.

Anyway, the UFO retails for $7930 with the sail and dolly, not listed in any of those above prices. If you are far away, the crate costs $418. Freight to the west coast is about $860. Freight to more convenient ports in Europe is about the same. It's often less about distance than frequency of general freight traffic. For example, freight to singapore is phenomenally cheap. What is delivered is built in house in Bristol RI. I can only speak for my business.

One other data point, Sunfish are still sub 5k and still slaughtering almost all of us on sales volume. 

DRC

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41 minutes ago, Dave Clark said:

I take real offense at this generalization.

For the record, I didn't just buy an ad, I bought the masthead banner ad spot.

Anyway, the UFO retails for $7930 with the sail and dolly, not listed in any of those above prices. If you are far away, the crate costs $418. Freight to the west coast is about $860. Freight to more convenient ports in Europe is about the same. It's often less about distance than frequency of general freight traffic. For example, freight to singapore is phenomenally cheap. What is delivered is built in house in Bristol RI. I can only speak for my business.

One other data point, Sunfish are still sub 5k and still slaughtering almost all of us on sales volume. 

DRC

For foilers there's no question you have the best deal in town.  The used Laser market right now is WAY hotter than the NEW Laser market and the general price point for used is $3k for a decent set up.  Price is a huge driver and access is the secondary driver.  (pointed out with your Sunfish info and they are easier boats to sail and launch from most places)

Not trying to be offensive and sorry you take offense, but numbers don't lie.  The 70's and 80's are long gone and Sailing isn't exactly killing it in new boat sales right now while power boats between 18-22' can't stay in stock.  Power boat access to open water is WAY easier than sail access.  Most sailors are members of clubs that have grounds to support them.  That membership usually costs more than most of the boats cost so the secondary cost to sail boat ownership is real as well.

Maybe things will turn for sail boating, but access has to open up and it just continues to get tighter.

Like sport boat sailing foiling is event more a "finge" area of our market.  While there is a market it's just a tight one.   We are a weird bunch of people.

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6 minutes ago, RobbieB said:

Not trying to be offensive and sorry you take offense, but numbers don't lie.  The 70's and 80's are long gone and Sailing isn't exactly killing it in new boat sales right now while power boats between 18-22' can't stay in stock. 

No problem. I'm simply offended by the cognitive dissonance here. Sailing is rapidly collapsing because prices have spiraled out of control which then feeds on itself. Powerboats at the mass market range have remained popular thanks to financing packages. 

note: self bailing planing boats were a fringe area of sailing until they were the norm. 

DRC

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34 minutes ago, Dave Clark said:

No problem. I'm simply offended by the cognitive dissonance here. Sailing is rapidly collapsing because prices have spiraled out of control which then feeds on itself. Powerboats at the mass market range have remained popular thanks to financing packages. 

note: self bailing planing boats were a fringe area of sailing until they were the norm. 

DRC

No question- Banks won't cough up a 20 year loan on a $35,000 VX One but are more than happy to do so for a $35,000 USED 24' Grady White power boat.  While it's much harder to enjoy beer on a sporty sail boat, sailors in general are more fit and better looking than the stink potters.  Everything's a trade off.

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1 hour ago, RobbieB said:

Banks won't cough up a 20 year loan on a $35,000 VX One but are more than happy to do so for a $35,000 USED 24' Grady White power boat.  

Why?

Do any US boat builders or dealers offer financing on sailing dinghies?

 

 

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1 hour ago, tillerman said:

Why?
 

I'm guessing the dealers have to agree to take back any repo boats and the bank has to be pretty sure the dealer will be there and solvent enough to do it. That's how it works at the fringes of the car finance market. I forget what the finance term for dealer holding part of the bag is, we haven't done it for 20 years.

Or the boat builder has to be big enough to have a finance division/deal with a lender.

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Classified advert is gone- must have sold. Whoever listed it probably did not want to mess with the tedious negotiations that can occur when you try to squeeze the extra $1k or so. Some people’s time is worth a more than that.

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54 minutes ago, Dex Sawash said:

I'm guessing the dealers have to agree to take back any repo boats and the bank has to be pretty sure the dealer will be there and solvent enough to do it. That's how it works at the fringes of the car finance market. I forget what the finance term for dealer holding part of the bag is, we haven't done it for 20 years.

Or the boat builder has to be big enough to have a finance division/deal with a lender.

Thanks for the explanation.

Interestingly enough I noticed that in the UK, where RS Sailing sell direct to to customers, they have been offering financing on RS Aeros in recent years. Guess that might be a factor in the excellent sales of the Aero there.

1602862837_ScreenShot2020-08-18at4_12_59PM.thumb.png.43c3349f3b81b688968e1806a9bfadde.png


 

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I have owned over 15 small boats, primarily for racing ( not much winning but lots of trying ) in my in over 60 years of sailing. I have LOST MONEY on every one and have never been surprised. I EXPECT to lose money! That's the way it is. It is a hobby ( a great one ) not an investment. Was it worth the cost? Absolutely. Would I do it again? Yes, I'm not finished buying and enjoying small sailboats. Glad I never took up golf! Happy Sailing!

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On 8/18/2020 at 2:47 PM, tillerman said:

Why?

Do any US boat builders or dealers offer financing on sailing dinghies?

 

 

I think that it's up to the dealers to create an arrangement.  Some dealers in the past had financing agreements with banks.  You can absolutely finance your VX One but it may not be through the dealer, it may be through a credit union.  Many years ago, just out of college, I financed a new Laser.  The bank didn't bat an eyelash about it and I happily paid it off way early.  

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On 8/17/2020 at 11:02 PM, JimBowie said:

yeah and the new M 15 is like, what, $20K out the door on the H2O?

20k for an overweight, mediocre sail area American version of an RS2000...Worth it

Seriously though, I would be surprised if it rates under 85 in d-pn which is (lets get real) what most of them will be used for.

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11 hours ago, JBOATTROUBLEMAKER said:

20k for an overweight, mediocre sail area American version of an RS2000...Worth it

Seriously though, I would be surprised if it rates under 85 in d-pn which is (lets get real) what most of them will be used for.

There is a fleet of 6 M15's on LBI NJ.   Boats were delivered in July and were having a ton of fun if anyone wants to come check them out.  

The base price, $12,750,  includes sails.  Adding a dolly, top cover, Bridle and board bag puts the price at $14,230.  Melges has a fleet discount if you order multiple boats.  We are working to put a 2nd order together to add to the fleet and anticipate having 10-12 boats in 2021.   The dolly is sufficient for now and were probably doing box trailers to handle storage and transportation in the future.

Where the boat excels is that it is simply fun and easy to sail.  The ability for a sailor to take a non sailor out for a day and have them tacking, jibing, hiking and ultimately flying a chute on the 1st sail is impressive.  I've had opti kids driving while I fly the chute.  If they botch a jibe or head up instead of down you just luff and the M15 settles down and you continue on your way.  The launcher combined with the smaller kite is ideal for giving people rides without the fear of mistakes that lead to damage.  Its a great husband/wife or parent/child platform but 400lbs of skeptical old salts in the boat with some breeze can be planing from jibe to jibe too. 

Ive owned a bunch of boats including several M-scows and E Scows.   I have a 1950's wooden GP14 built by my grandfather.   Bringing new people for a sail involves lots of coaching about what to do but more importantly "what not to do" which can be intimidating for a non sailor.  With the M15 we have a package that will allow us to introduce more people to sailing but doing it on a planing dingy vs a tipsy displacement hull that everyone knows is boring.  There is not a doubt in my mind that this boat will be successful as were going to make sure that anyone local has an opportunity to sail it.  

If you can get to LBI shoot me a PM and I'll make sure you can try the boat and see what its all about. 

Fretz 

 

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23 minutes ago, Fretz said:

There is a fleet of 6 M15's on LBI NJ.   Boats were delivered in July and were having a ton of fun if anyone wants to come check them out.  

The base price, $12,750,  includes sails.  Adding a dolly, top cover, Bridle and board bag puts the price at $14,230.  Melges has a fleet discount if you order multiple boats.  We are working to put a 2nd order together to add to the fleet and anticipate having 10-12 boats in 2021.   The dolly is sufficient for now and were probably doing box trailers to handle storage and transportation in the future.

Where the boat excels is that it is simply fun and easy to sail.  The ability for a sailor to take a non sailor out for a day and have them tacking, jibing, hiking and ultimately flying a chute on the 1st sail is impressive.  I've had opti kids driving while I fly the chute.  If they botch a jibe or head up instead of down you just luff and the M15 settles down and you continue on your way.  The launcher combined with the smaller kite is ideal for giving people rides without the fear of mistakes that lead to damage.  Its a great husband/wife or parent/child platform but 400lbs of skeptical old salts in the boat with some breeze can be planing from jibe to jibe too. 

Ive owned a bunch of boats including several M-scows and E Scows.   I have a 1950's wooden GP14 built by my grandfather.   Bringing new people for a sail involves lots of coaching about what to do but more importantly "what not to do" which can be intimidating for a non sailor.  With the M15 we have a package that will allow us to introduce more people to sailing but doing it on a planing dingy vs a tipsy displacement hull that everyone knows is boring.  There is not a doubt in my mind that this boat will be successful as were going to make sure that anyone local has an opportunity to sail it.  

If you can get to LBI shoot me a PM and I'll make sure you can try the boat and see what its all about. 

Fretz 

 

Hi Fretz, 

 

That would be an amazing opportunity! The main reason I think the Melges will falter is the fact that the brand is marketing it as a club racing boat, something for which it would struggle to deliver results against 470s and other handicap raced boats. Sounds like a great boat for younger sailors. My club currently has a fleet of c420s for that...maybe an upgrade is in line.

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3 hours ago, Tropical Madness said:

i just flipped a 2012 Laser and made a little bit on it. Partly funded the new Aero :)

How on earth did you do that? The newest laser I have been able to flip successfully was a 91'. You must have gotten a steal on it in the beginning. 

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On 8/19/2020 at 1:47 PM, xonk1 said:

I have owned over 15 small boats, primarily for racing ( not much winning but lots of trying ) in my in over 60 years of sailing. I have LOST MONEY on every one and have never been surprised. I EXPECT to lose money! That's the way it is. It is a hobby ( a great one ) not an investment. Was it worth the cost? Absolutely. Would I do it again? Yes, I'm not finished buying and enjoying small sailboats. Glad I never took up golf! Happy Sailing!

I’ve lost money on every sailboat I’ve owned and made money on every powerboat.

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1 hour ago, JBOATTROUBLEMAKER said:

Hi Fretz, 

 

That would be an amazing opportunity! The main reason I think the Melges will falter is the fact that the brand is marketing it as a club racing boat, something for which it would struggle to deliver results against 470s and other handicap raced boats. Sounds like a great boat for younger sailors. My club currently has a fleet of c420s for that...maybe an upgrade is in line.

I'm a one design sailor so i cant speak to the handicap side of club racing.  I believe the class will thrive at clubs who want to race one design and Melges marketing is on target for club racing.  None of our owners were poached from another fleet which is important as were filling a void not replacing an existing class.  We simply needed a 2 person option for adults.  The existing owners range from late 20's to early 60's in age.  

We didn't pitch it as a competitor to the Jr classes at our club.  The 420 has an established regatta calendar and is a great pathway for college sailing.   I do believe that we will see some jr sailors with us in the future who cant make the time and/or financial commitment to compete on the 420 circuit though.  I also see parents looking for something they can sail with their kids on the weekend while the kid does the full Summer program during the week.

 

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21 hours ago, Running with Scissors said:

I’ve lost money on every sailboat I’ve owned and made money on every powerboat.

Except the fuel...

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30 minutes ago, fastyacht said:
22 hours ago, Running with Scissors said:

I’ve lost money on every sailboat I’ve owned and made money on every powerboat.

Except the fuel...

Actually, fuel is cheaper than sails.

Depending on usage of course.... there are powerboats that will burn up the cost of a new set (relative to their own size) in a couple of afternoons, but for the most part powerboaters don't rampage around burning up thousands (or tens of thousands) of dollars of fuel every season.

FB- Doug

 

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Just adding on a more positive note-

I don't think mid-teens ($16,600 tricked out) is a bad price for a 15' centerboard spinnaker boat. It's comparable to others and I would assume with Melges you're getting something that's well sorted. Not sure you can still order a new Buccaneer from Nickels but I bet they're a bit more.

FB- Doug

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44 minutes ago, Steam Flyer said:

Just adding on a more positive note-

I don't think mid-teens ($16,600 tricked out) is a bad price for a 15' centerboard spinnaker boat. It's comparable to others and I would assume with Melges you're getting something that's well sorted. Not sure you can still order a new Buccaneer from Nickels but I bet they're a bit more.

FB- Doug

You can also buy some euro plastic boats for lrss. But polythene....

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5 hours ago, Steam Flyer said:

Just adding on a more positive note-

I don't think mid-teens ($16,600 tricked out) is a bad price for a 15' centerboard spinnaker boat. It's comparable to others and I would assume with Melges you're getting something that's well sorted. Not sure you can still order a new Buccaneer from Nickels but I bet they're a bit more.

 FB- Doug

Same ballpark as an RS 200.  Vago costs half that.  Sailed a DX once, not as bad as you'd think.  Same start as a bunch of RS 200s and we didn't have any trouble keeping them in the rear-view mirror.  That said, Vago had its chance and hasn't taken off so I'm not holding my breath.

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In spite of that, it's surprisingly competent. 

It makes up for it's heavy material by minimizing the amount used.  Narrow and sub 14'.

I've never seen an old one so I don't know how well they hold up over the years but I did notice some of the fittings pulling out on the one I did sail.  As problems go, not the most difficult to repair.

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The Melges 15 is an interesting boat, but when are they going to scale the 24 down to club racer size (14-16'). Thats a boat I would dish out big money for.

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I'm not sure what makes me sadder.  Fractional spinnakers or lead assisted dinghies.

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3 minutes ago, Teener said:

I'm not sure what makes me sadder.  Fractional spinnakers or lead assisted dinghies.

Agreed. I would not dare propose that the boat would have ballast 

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On 8/18/2020 at 9:41 AM, JimBowie said:
  • BOAT TYPE
    Select a BoatMelges 14 GoldMelges 14 BlueMelges 14 RedMelges 15 ClubMelges 15 One-DesignMelges 17Melges C ScowMelges E ScowMelges MCMelges Power 26Melges X BoatSkeetaNikki
    A quotation will be calculated based on your selections.
  • BASE PRICE
    $16,549.00
  • MELGES 15 ONE-DESIGN OPTIONS
    •  Melges 15 Dolly +$595.00
    •  Lifting Bridle +$45.00
    •  Trailer Package +$1,900.00
    •  40" Carbon Fiber Tiller Extension +$112.00
    •  Racing Sheets Kit +$285.00
    •  Sail Number Application +$60.00
    •  Custom Sail Number (No. 2-99) +$200.00
    •  Additional Main Sail +$745.00
    •  Additional Jib Sail +$365.00
    •  Additional Spinnaker +$695.00
    •  Full Deck Cover +$695.00
    •  Envelope Cover +$740.00
    •  Rudder Bag +$185.00
    •  Board Bag +$85.00
    •  Boom Bag +$115.00
    •  Mast Float +$67.00
    •  Tacktick Micro Compass +$349.00
    •  Velocitek Speed Puck +$399.00
    •  Mast Bracket for Velocitek Speed Puck +$59.00
    Base Price of the Melges 15 One-Design includes a main, jib, and asymmetrical spinnaker and spinnaker rigging.
  • PRICE INCLUDING OPTIONS (EXCLUDING TAX, VAT, SHIPPING)
    $16,549.00

If your definition of "on the water" price includes every option you can find on their website, including two sets of sails, two compasses, bags for everything possible, a dolly, trailer and lifting bridle, we're going to have to agree to disagree.

EDIT: 
Oh also you have included the price of sail numbers twice there.  

I think we can agree the price is somewhere between 12K and 16K for "On the water" depending on options

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14 hours ago, JBOATTROUBLEMAKER said:

The Melges 15 is an interesting boat, but when are they going to scale the 24 down to club racer size (14-16'). Thats a boat I would dish out big money for.

Well that would be the 19' VX 1

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On 8/26/2020 at 1:16 AM, Teener said:

I'm not sure what makes me sadder.  Fractional spinnakers or lead assisted dinghies.

About 1% of dinghies have lead in their centreboards, about 99% have a fractional kite.  Why so sad about fractional spinnakers? 
 

Edit: The VX One has lead AND a fractional kite but looks a great boat. 

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If never sailed a dinghy with a masthead spinnaker and thought "gee, I wish this was fractional" and I've never sailed a dinghy that had a fractional spinnaker that didn't leave me wondering how much better it would be if it went all the way up.

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3 minutes ago, Teener said:

If never sailed a dinghy with a masthead spinnaker and thought "gee, I wish this was fractional" and I've never sailed a dinghy that had a fractional spinnaker that didn't leave me wondering how much better it would be if it went all the way up.

MORE IS BETTER!!!

FB- Doug

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59er, my own turbo'ed V15.  Experience with both has me completely convinced.

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2 hours ago, Teener said:

59er, my own turbo'ed V15.  Experience with both has me completely convinced.

You're in the US? How the fuck did you get a 59er? I schemed for years to find one of those here

- DSK

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4 hours ago, Steam Flyer said:

You're in the US? How the fuck did you get a 59er? I schemed for years to find one of those here

- DSK

Me too!

 

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Just now, Steam Flyer said:

 

You go ahead.

What happened to the RS 500 in the barn?

FB- Doug

Missing the trapeze and other parts. Boat was a late 90s year, and the guy wanted too much for it with the XL sails.

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17 minutes ago, JBOATTROUBLEMAKER said:

 

Missing the trapeze and other parts. Boat was a late 90s year, and the guy wanted too much for it with the XL sails.

The RS 500 was first built in 2007.

Source: https://sailboatdata.com/sailboat/rs500#:~:text=SailboatData.com%20%2D%20RS500%20Sailboat&text=A%20Ballast%2FDisplacement%20ratio%20of,stand%20up%20to%20the%20wind.&text=The%20lower%20a%20boat's%20Displacement,to%20its%20nominal%20hull%20speed.

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4 hours ago, Dave Clark said:

The guy said it was a 1999 boat...go figure. I really have not read up as much as I should on 500s. The only explanation I can think of is that it was actually a 400 that the owner mistook for a 5(it hadn't been sailed in 5 years).

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1 hour ago, Running with Scissors said:

Worst case of thread drift I’ve ever seen.

Yeah?

What did you all have for dinner?

FB- Doug

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5 hours ago, JBOATTROUBLEMAKER said:

The guy said it was a 1999 boat...go figure. I really have not read up as much as I should on 500s. The only explanation I can think of is that it was actually a 400 that the owner mistook for a 5(it hadn't been sailed in 5 years).

The clue is in the the sail insignia!  Don’t know what you mean by XL sails though.  The 400 is an altogether better and more expensive boat than the 500.

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5 hours ago, sosoomii said:

The clue is in the the sail insignia!  Don’t know what you mean by XL sails though.  The 400 is an altogether better and more expensive boat than the 500.

Yes, I got invited to sail an RS 400 years ago, visiting relatives in England. It's a great little boat. It's not as much of a hot rod as the 59er

- DSK

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The Melges15 may have hit the sweet spot for a double-handed boat  with an asymmetric spinnaker. It is remarkable that the members of the LEYC were able to get 12 of them at the inaugural invitational. This may be the one that US sailing needs right now to revitalize dinghy racing in 2020. 

https://melges.com/melges-15s-make-their-regatta-debut/

https://melges.com/melges-15-first-impressions-with-chris-fretz/

 

Wouldn't it be nice to know if the boat could be realistically  raced as a single hander ?  If so, that would even create a bigger market. The videos on the Melges15 show Eddie Cox sailing it single handed with the asymmetric spinnaker. 

 

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2 hours ago, Shoo said:

The Melges15 may have hit the sweet spot for a double-handed boat  with an asymmetric spinnaker. It is remarkable that the members of the LEYC were able to get 12 of them at the inaugural invitational. This may be the one that US sailing needs right now to revitalize dinghy racing in 2020. 

https://melges.com/melges-15s-make-their-regatta-debut/

https://melges.com/melges-15-first-impressions-with-chris-fretz/

 

Wouldn't it be nice to know if the boat could be realistically  raced as a single hander ?  If so, that would even create a bigger market. The videos on the Melges15 show Eddie Cox sailing it single handed with the asymmetric spinnaker. 

 

Were very happy with the boats.  We ended the season with 10 boats at LEHYC and 2 additional boats at other NJ clubs.  At the regatta we had a 5 guest teams who wanted to try the boat and had a blast.  Conditions were challenging but based on that positive experience 3 local clubs are working to put together a fleet buy similar to ours so were really hopeful that there will be some well addended New Jersey events in 2021.

 All of the racing in 2020 was double handed with spin but were going to explore some singlehanded and maybe white sail stuff to try to get different groups out next year.  Most of us sailed the boat for fun under main only and it was well behaved.  Adding the chute solo makes it rather exciting. 

For us the draft of 2'10" is the biggest plus.  Our bay is huge but has vast areas of 12-18" depth at low tide.  The M15 can sneak into or over the shallow spots and the boats have proved durable when hitting the occasional sand bar at speed.  The power with the chute is impressive considering its just not that overpowered up wind at 18+.  Its easy to keep the boat under the chute in the biggest puffs and waves.  There is a wide range of age and experience in the boats and to see retirees mixing it up with Jr sailors at the leeward mark is really neat.

We really needed something new this year.  Something a husband/wife or parent/child could sail.  Nothing was exciting enough to inspire people to do anything until Melges announced the 15.  NJ sailors are equal parts of thrift and skepticism.  The fact that were buying more of them should put it on your list.  There are a lot of clubs in NJ who could benefit from the boat.

 

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Not to be a drag, but every photo I see of the M15 is a glamour shot of them trying to plane at like 110 TWA.
When the boats were on demo up here, they just blasted back and forth. Can it go downhill on a W/L course?
 

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37 minutes ago, Roller Skates said:

Not to be a drag, but every photo I see of the M15 is a glamour shot of them trying to plane at like 110 TWA.
When the boats were on demo up here, they just blasted back and forth. Can it go downhill on a W/L course?
 

We race W/L courses and the jibing angles downwind seem to mirror the tacking angles up wind.  Windward is at the bottom here.

Were still figuring out the modes upwind and down but a higher angle at 15 "feels" a lot more fun than a lower angle at 10.   We only had one drifter this summer and fortunately I didn't sail.  The guys who borrowed the boat said that it soaked low with lots of heel and were impressed with how well it moved up until they called the races for lack of wind.  The boat really likes breeze though and handles 20+ surprisingly well.

Optimum weight is still up for debate.  At our club time on the water seems to be a bigger factor than weight 90% of the time.  A lot of us are just weekend warriors looking to have fun. The boat has proved to be great fun for all abilities and weights from 275 up to 400.  

 

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