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Why is an unqualified person dictating to the FDA and forcing unproven treatments on Americans?

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FDA to authorize plasma treatment over scientists' objections

The Food and Drug Administration will issue an emergency authorization for blood plasma as a coronavirus treatment, President Donald Trump is set to announce Sunday evening, according to three administration officials.

The agency held off on the decision last week over concerns from government scientists that evidence for the treatment's effectiveness is thin — prompting Trump to accuse the FDA of slow-walking the therapy to harm his reelectionchances without offering any evidence to support his claim. It is not clear whether the FDA has received additional clinical trial data in the last week that would support the therapy's use.

An emergency authorization normally paves the way for expanded use of an experimental therapy. But it is not clear what effect the FDA's decision will have in the case of so-called convalescent plasma, which more than 70,000 Americans have already received — largely outside of randomized, controlled clinical trials that could prove whether the approach is effective.

Trump will announce the emergency authorization alongside his health secretary, Alex Azar, and FDA Commissioner Stephen Hahn, in a press conference one day before the start of the Republican National Convention. White House Press Secretary Kayleigh McEnany said the announcement would involve a "major therapeutic breakthrough," but experts have said the treatment is unlikely to be a game-changer in the fight against a pathogen that's killed more than 170,000 in the United States.

The treatment involves giving the sick antibody-rich plasma extracted from the blood of coronavirus survivors. In theory those antibodies should help recipients fight off the virus. But while plasma treatment has been used safely against diseases from diphtheria to Ebola over the past 130 years, its track record on effectiveness is mixed. And it has not yet been proven to work against the coronavirus.

Scott Gottlieb, Trump's first FDA commissioner, on Sunday said that plasma is "probably beneficial" for coronavirus patients, as he also acknowledged scientists' concerns about the lack of evidence for the treatment.

https://www.politico.com/news/2020/08/23/plasma-treatment-coronavirus-fda-trump-400390

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Just now, badlatitude said:

FDA to authorize plasma treatment over scientists' objections

The Food and Drug Administration will issue an emergency authorization for blood plasma as a coronavirus treatment, President Donald Trump is set to announce Sunday evening, according to three administration officials.

The agency held off on the decision last week over concerns from government scientists that evidence for the treatment's effectiveness is thin — prompting Trump to accuse the FDA of slow-walking the therapy to harm his reelectionchances without offering any evidence to support his claim. It is not clear whether the FDA has received additional clinical trial data in the last week that would support the therapy's use.

An emergency authorization normally paves the way for expanded use of an experimental therapy. But it is not clear what effect the FDA's decision will have in the case of so-called convalescent plasma, which more than 70,000 Americans have already received — largely outside of randomized, controlled clinical trials that could prove whether the approach is effective.

Trump will announce the emergency authorization alongside his health secretary, Alex Azar, and FDA Commissioner Stephen Hahn, in a press conference one day before the start of the Republican National Convention. White House Press Secretary Kayleigh McEnany said the announcement would involve a "major therapeutic breakthrough," but experts have said the treatment is unlikely to be a game-changer in the fight against a pathogen that's killed more than 170,000 in the United States.

The treatment involves giving the sick antibody-rich plasma extracted from the blood of coronavirus survivors. In theory those antibodies should help recipients fight off the virus. But while plasma treatment has been used safely against diseases from diphtheria to Ebola over the past 130 years, its track record on effectiveness is mixed. And it has not yet been proven to work against the coronavirus.

Scott Gottlieb, Trump's first FDA commissioner, on Sunday said that plasma is "probably beneficial" for coronavirus patients, as he also acknowledged scientists' concerns about the lack of evidence for the treatment.

https://www.politico.com/news/2020/08/23/plasma-treatment-coronavirus-fda-trump-400390

Trump is desperate for a win...any win.

This "win" will give him something to ramble about for the next four nights.

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1 minute ago, B.J. Porter said:

Trump is desperate for a win...any win.

This "win" will give him something to ramble about for the next four nights.

I hope someone asks how many dead on hydroxychloroquine, and how many can we expect from plasma and oleander treatments.

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8 minutes ago, badlatitude said:

FDA to authorize plasma treatment over scientists' objections

The Food and Drug Administration will issue an emergency authorization for blood plasma as a coronavirus treatment, President Donald Trump is set to announce Sunday evening, according to three administration officials.

The agency held off on the decision last week over concerns from government scientists that evidence for the treatment's effectiveness is thin — prompting Trump to accuse the FDA of slow-walking the therapy to harm his reelectionchances without offering any evidence to support his claim. It is not clear whether the FDA has received additional clinical trial data in the last week that would support the therapy's use.

An emergency authorization normally paves the way for expanded use of an experimental therapy. But it is not clear what effect the FDA's decision will have in the case of so-called convalescent plasma, which more than 70,000 Americans have already received — largely outside of randomized, controlled clinical trials that could prove whether the approach is effective.

Trump will announce the emergency authorization alongside his health secretary, Alex Azar, and FDA Commissioner Stephen Hahn, in a press conference one day before the start of the Republican National Convention. White House Press Secretary Kayleigh McEnany said the announcement would involve a "major therapeutic breakthrough," but experts have said the treatment is unlikely to be a game-changer in the fight against a pathogen that's killed more than 170,000 in the United States.

The treatment involves giving the sick antibody-rich plasma extracted from the blood of coronavirus survivors. In theory those antibodies should help recipients fight off the virus. But while plasma treatment has been used safely against diseases from diphtheria to Ebola over the past 130 years, its track record on effectiveness is mixed. And it has not yet been proven to work against the coronavirus.

Scott Gottlieb, Trump's first FDA commissioner, on Sunday said that plasma is "probably beneficial" for coronavirus patients, as he also acknowledged scientists' concerns about the lack of evidence for the treatment.

https://www.politico.com/news/2020/08/23/plasma-treatment-coronavirus-fda-trump-400390

 

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I'm really surprised Trump hasn't hired someone from the soap opera General Hospital to head the FDA.  General Hospital has great ratings!

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8 minutes ago, badlatitude said:

I hope someone asks how many dead on hydroxychloroquine, and how many can we expect from plasma and oleander treatments.

Hydroxy is BENIGN!

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4 minutes ago, BravoBravo said:

Hydroxy is BENIGN!

I envy everyone who hasn't read your messages.  

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11 minutes ago, Cal20sailor said:

I envy everyone who hasn't read your messages.  

It seems you are wishing failure if it means a successful reflection on Trump... yep you and most down here  are politiopaths

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some one please enlighten me

1- It's a HOAX and only 20 will die form it , only off by 180,000 and counting 

2-Then drinking a bleach cocktail and you'll be saved?

3-The heat from the summer will kill the virus

4- why are we #1 in the world in deaths?

so his big supporters are  this Qanon group who don't be believe in mask or vaccine's, So who's going really believe  this new Lie? OH Floridan's  that are born and bred from new jersey, that will follow the Trump flag on there boats into the on coming Tidal wave..

sounds like a win me

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5 minutes ago, BravoBravo said:

It seems you are wishing failure if it means a successful reflection on Trump... yep you and most down here  are politiopaths

No, I'm hoping that the morons in this country (no offense) will take heed of the failings of Trump and vote him out.  I think I've been very clear on that point.  Almost time for recess, finish your juice box and try not to piss yourself...again.  

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The plasma treatment's old hat, they've been doing it since... March?  Maybe April.  Anyways, as long as antibody tests have been available, there's been a call for those who test positive on antibodies, negative for active infection, to donate plasma.  Back when DJT was pushing hydroxychloroquine.  

It actually does seem to help, somewhat, but it's not some Major breakthrough or anything like that. 

 

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9 minutes ago, frenchie said:

The plasma treatment's old hat, they've been doing it since... March?  Maybe April.  Anyways, as long as antibody tests have been available, there's been a call for those who test positive on antibodies, negative for active infection, to donate plasma.  Back when DJT was pushing hydroxychloroquine.  

It actually does seem to help, somewhat, but it's not some Major breakthrough or anything like that. 

 

Yes, you are correct. The problem, is no one has authorized studies to see if they really are effective, or a waste of time. The government thinks they may help.

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29 minutes ago, Cal20sailor said:

I envy everyone who hasn't read your messages.  

Please do your bit - stop quoting the fuckwit so those of us who have it on ignore aren't exposed to the idiocy.  Thanks.

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1 minute ago, Recidivist said:

Please do your bit - stop quoting the fuckwit so those of us who have it on ignore aren't exposed to the idiocy.  Thanks.

Apologies.  

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1 hour ago, Cal20sailor said:
1 hour ago, BravoBravo said:

Hydroxy is BENIGN!

I envy everyone who hasn't read your messages.  

I trust that BozoBozo is taking his own advice and drinking it every day.

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1 hour ago, frenchie said:

The plasma treatment's old hat, they've been doing it since... March?  Maybe April.  Anyways, as long as antibody tests have been available, there's been a call for those who test positive on antibodies, negative for active infection, to donate plasma.  Back when DJT was pushing hydroxychloroquine.  

It actually does seem to help, somewhat, but it's not some Major breakthrough or anything like that. 

 

Plasma therapy goes back decades.   If FDA regs are slowing down efforts then Trump’s actually doing something decent.   The lack of controlled studies is economics.    You can’t effectively produce, bottle and market a market that depends on survivors donating blood.   No drug company has a financial benefit in sponsoring large studies.  Universities hate doing work without a corporate sponsor or product spin off,    There are efforts to engineer bacteria to produce anti Covid antibodies, so it can be mass produced and marketed as a drug,    That’s just a new application for old theory.    Antibody products for other infections aren’t a miracle, but can change a patient’s mind when he is thinking hard about dying.    

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I wonder what the Anti Vaxxers think about plasma transfusions?

Personally, I'm starting to wonder if the Scientologists are making a run for world domination and that Covid19 is a 

Disease from Space! planted carefully in a wet market in Wuhan!

I'm frightening myself 

 

 

only half joking.

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1 hour ago, BravoBravo said:

It seems you are wishing failure if it means a successful reflection on Trump... yep you and most down here  are politiopaths

Where did he imply he was wishing failure?  

Please reply in words and not cartoons.   I want to see if you can pull off looking as if you are not 12 years old. 

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1 hour ago, frenchie said:

The plasma treatment's old hat, they've been doing it since... March?  Maybe April.  Anyways, as long as antibody tests have been available, there's been a call for those who test positive on antibodies, negative for active infection, to donate plasma.  Back when DJT was pushing hydroxychloroquine.  

It actually does seem to help, somewhat, but it's not some Major breakthrough or anything like that. 

 

Yup. And been used with ebola and other nasties

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All this sciency talk.

In rough terms.

As far as i'm aware we have no evidence that people are yet developing long lasting immunities . AFAIK, plasma based treatments are only any use when the disease one is trying to vaccinated against is one where survivors develop long term  immunity.

 

 

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4 minutes ago, benwynn said:

Where did he imply he was wishing failure?  

Please reply in words and not cartoons.   I want to see if you can pull off looking as if you are not 12 years old. 

As you have advocated, let's see the proof.  I haven't deleted any posts.  My wish is to get adults in leadership roles and solve the virus to the levels of countries in Europe.  We have the worst President ever and that may have been part of his plan, no one remembers who finished 22nd.  

I appreciate your support and hopefully, the good/smart guys win this one and the uneducated white male base loses.  

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2 hours ago, BravoBravo said:
2 hours ago, badlatitude said:

I hope someone asks how many dead on hydroxychloroquine, and how many can we expect from plasma and oleander treatments.

Hydroxy is BENIGN!

Is that a way of admitting that it doesn't fucking work, without admitting you and your fellow Trumpalos were wrong all along?

Fucking boneheads.

- DSK

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11 minutes ago, Clove Hitch said:
1 hour ago, frenchie said:

The plasma treatment's old hat, they've been doing it since... March?  Maybe April.  Anyways, as long as antibody tests have been available, there's been a call for those who test positive on antibodies, negative for active infection, to donate plasma.  Back when DJT was pushing hydroxychloroquine.  

It actually does seem to help, somewhat, but it's not some Major breakthrough or anything like that. 

 

Yup. And been used with ebola and other nasties

Well, data from case studies is not going to give clear-cut data like a real scientific clinical trial. The case records AFAIK (and my knowledge is limited) show that it helps. But you can't develop a treatment regimen from case studies.

There is risk to patients, first that all patients are losing the benefit of a properly developed treatment; secondly the transmission of other infections (which is relatively small but not zero... similar to blood transfusion).

I'm relieved that the Jonestown Express has pulled off the highway, and "the hydroxy" is no longer their Kool-Aid of choice. If that is true.

- DSK

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1 hour ago, Steam Flyer said:

Well, data from case studies is not going to give clear-cut data like a real scientific clinical trial. The case records AFAIK (and my knowledge is limited) show that it helps. But you can't develop a treatment regimen from case studies.

There is risk to patients, first that all patients are losing the benefit of a properly developed treatment; secondly the transmission of other infections (which is relatively small but not zero... similar to blood transfusion).

I'm relieved that the Jonestown Express has pulled off the highway, and "the hydroxy" is no longer their Kool-Aid of choice. If that is true.

- DSK

Oh believe me I know. I've given blood products to people.  It is like handing off the nuclear football. Witnessed check off and signatures from blood bank. Clock starts.. 30 mins to get the bag spiked and in the pt. At pt bedside check list and sign off with another RN. Pt id #. Blood unit #.  Pt blood type id #. And more. Read aloud and read back.

There is so much.....stuff.....in blood products that even with a perfect match deadly reactions could happen. Our protocol is vitals every 5 mins for first 15 then every 15 for 2 hours. 

Just like the hydroxy....... these morons are just oblivious to the risks . 

P.s. had a pt get a fever of 104 with perfect match 45 mins into transfusion.  Still possibly a good treatment for very sick covid pts. Maybe.

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2 hours ago, Shortforbob said:

All this sciency talk.

In rough terms.

As far as i'm aware we have no evidence that people are yet developing long lasting immunities . AFAIK, plasma based treatments are only any use when the disease one is trying to vaccinated against is one where survivors develop long term  immunity.

 

 

Plasma and antibody products are short term “passive immunity” products, acting like a mother’s colostrum.    If antibodies are protective, even briefly, plasma is effective.    It’s a shipment of missiles, not trainers.   Once the missiles get used or break with age they are gone.    The patient can develop an immune response against the doner antibodies, like Clove discusses.    Laboratory synthesized antibodies can be purer and safer then human plasma, but the US FDA likely won’t approve them as quickly as in  other nations also developing them,

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4 hours ago, frenchie said:

The plasma treatment's old hat, they've been doing it since... March?  Maybe April.  Anyways, as long as antibody tests have been available, there's been a call for those who test positive on antibodies, negative for active infection, to donate plasma.  Back when DJT was pushing hydroxychloroquine.  

It actually does seem to help, somewhat, but it's not some Major breakthrough or anything like that. 

 

One of the fake news doctors was explaining that right now, plasma treatments are occurring but they all have to go through some sort of agreement with Mayo.  This approval will open it up.  He also explained that there is a very limited supply.  

I am wondering if there is an insurance issue that this might help also.

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3 minutes ago, bridhb said:

...   ...

I am wondering if there is an insurance issue that this might help also.

That's an excellent question.

It also raises the question, how much do antibody donors get paid?

- DSK

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I’m waiting until a Trumpaloo cooks the books and claims that convalescent plasma therapy is a bigger breakthrough  than the Salk vaccine was

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Don't forget for a second that the Drump Vets Admin and USG corrupt hacks 

ordered 60 million doses of hydroxychloroquine. 

using our tax dollars to pay for it. 

Thanks @BravoBravo    you lying dissembling Reichista !!!

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4 hours ago, Shortforbob said:

I wonder what the Anti Vaxxers think about plasma transfusions?

Personally, I'm starting to wonder if the Scientologists are making a run for world domination and that Covid19 is a 

Disease from Space! planted carefully in a wet market in Wuhan!

I'm frightening myself 

 

 

only half joking.

It’s an alien test....

 

and WHY? Is this happening? Because Trump can get by with it, that’s why....

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9 hours ago, Steam Flyer said:

That's an excellent question.

It also raises the question, how much do antibody donors get paid?

- DSK

Well, here it is nothing.  Part of "One Blood" donations.  You do get a free antibody test and sometimes a t-shirt.

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15 hours ago, badlatitude said:

FDA to authorize plasma treatment over scientists' objections

The Food and Drug Administration will issue an emergency authorization for blood plasma as a coronavirus treatment, President Donald Trump is set to announce Sunday evening, according to three administration officials.

The agency held off on the decision last week over concerns from government scientists that evidence for the treatment's effectiveness is thin — prompting Trump to accuse the FDA of slow-walking the therapy to harm his reelectionchances without offering any evidence to support his claim. It is not clear whether the FDA has received additional clinical trial data in the last week that would support the therapy's use.

An emergency authorization normally paves the way for expanded use of an experimental therapy. But it is not clear what effect the FDA's decision will have in the case of so-called convalescent plasma, which more than 70,000 Americans have already received — largely outside of randomized, controlled clinical trials that could prove whether the approach is effective.

Trump will announce the emergency authorization alongside his health secretary, Alex Azar, and FDA Commissioner Stephen Hahn, in a press conference one day before the start of the Republican National Convention. White House Press Secretary Kayleigh McEnany said the announcement would involve a "major therapeutic breakthrough," but experts have said the treatment is unlikely to be a game-changer in the fight against a pathogen that's killed more than 170,000 in the United States.

The treatment involves giving the sick antibody-rich plasma extracted from the blood of coronavirus survivors. In theory those antibodies should help recipients fight off the virus. But while plasma treatment has been used safely against diseases from diphtheria to Ebola over the past 130 years, its track record on effectiveness is mixed. And it has not yet been proven to work against the coronavirus.

Scott Gottlieb, Trump's first FDA commissioner, on Sunday said that plasma is "probably beneficial" for coronavirus patients, as he also acknowledged scientists' concerns about the lack of evidence for the treatment.

https://www.politico.com/news/2020/08/23/plasma-treatment-coronavirus-fda-trump-400390

How is the government  "forcing unproven treatments on Americans"?

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13 hours ago, Shortforbob said:

All this sciency talk.

In rough terms.

As far as i'm aware we have no evidence that people are yet developing long lasting immunities . AFAIK, plasma based treatments are only any use when the disease one is trying to vaccinated against is one where survivors develop long term  immunity.

 

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/08/16/health/coronavirus-immunity-antibodies.html

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18 minutes ago, bridhb said:
10 hours ago, Steam Flyer said:

That's an excellent question.

It also raises the question, how much do antibody donors get paid?

 

Well, here it is nothing.  Part of "One Blood" donations.  You do get a free antibody test and sometimes a t-shirt.

Please forgive me for being the suspicious type, but if Trump is approving it, it's either because somebody really did a good job kissing his butt for it, or it brings money his way. Insurance companies?

I've seen a number of real eyebrow-raisers in the transplant organ and blood systems, where items that are donated for the good of our fellow humans somehow magically turn into major cashola along the way, for some of the people involved.

- DSK

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7 minutes ago, Steam Flyer said:

Please forgive me for being the suspicious type, but if Trump is approving it, it's either because somebody really did a good job kissing his butt for it, or it brings money his way. Insurance companies?

I've seen a number of real eyebrow-raisers in the transplant organ and blood systems, where items that are donated for the good of our fellow humans somehow magically turn into major cashola along the way, for some of the people involved.

- DSK

Oh, I am sure lots of people make lots of money off of it.  Quick bing search says Oneblood CEO was paid $2million in 2015.  I am sure there are a lot of well paid people along the way between the nice lady that sticks that big ass needle in my arm and the CEO.  It is just the idiots like me that feel like they are doing something "good" by donating blood that don't get paid anything.  I blame my dad for starting me out early.   Never tried one of those plasma centers that pay for donations....hmmm, how many donations for some snatch blocks?

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24 minutes ago, bridhb said:

Oh, I am sure lots of people make lots of money off of it.  Quick bing search says Oneblood CEO was paid $2million in 2015.  I am sure there are a lot of well paid people along the way between the nice lady that sticks that big ass needle in my arm and the CEO.  It is just the idiots like me that feel like they are doing something "good" by donating blood that don't get paid anything.  I blame my dad for starting me out early.   Never tried one of those plasma centers that pay for donations....hmmm, how many donations for some snatch blocks?

+  +

I was approaching my 5 gallon mark when the powers that be decided that my potential exposure to malaria made me an unsuitable donor.

- DSK

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Use of donor plasma is NOT unproven.  It has been used successfully for many years for other diseases.

There hasn't been sufficient time to have a double blind study of COVID in this regard but it has proven successful in so many prior diseases that it's use is not a bad idea.

Recall that many HIV/AIDS drugs were released for compassionate use.  Note: COMPASSIONATE which was you basis for hate in another thread.

The UK has been using it and increasing it's use since May.  https://www.theguardian.com/science/2020/may/28/nhs-to-increase-covid-19-patients-receiving-antibody-therapy

Perhaps diseases need to file an epidemiological impact statement before evolving.

 

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7 minutes ago, Saorsa said:

Recall that many HIV/AIDS drugs were released for compassionate use.  Note: COMPASSIONATE which was you basis for hate in another thread.

Anything about this sentence you'd like to change Dr?

 

Any unproven cure-all is not going to bring back the 170K+ dead that were largely due to Trump's lack of leadership.  On the up side, I still think that you're smarter than Warbird but nowhere near Joker.  Keep trying.  

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32 minutes ago, Dog said:

How is the government  "forcing unproven treatments on Americans"?

The elected head of the American government is using the bully pulpit of his office to advocate unproven cures upon an unwitting public.He is going on national television to promote cures that he has no professional knowledge about, or experience. He is not a doctor, a student, or a person with any medical background at all. His own cadre of professional experts have to go before the public to counter his opinion on the efficacy of the medicines he is pushing.The governmental heads of the departments responsible for public safety are bullied into making decisions or passing orders before the scientific studies to see if the drugs have actual benefit to the public.

This morning, it was announced that the FDA will release a vaccine before the full trials on its safety are conducted. We have already used a drug that international panels of scientists have rejected for safety or efficacy, in fact, the Veterans Administration bought 6.3 million tabs of this drug, Hydroxychloroquine.and administered it to 1,300 veterans at the beginning of the pandemic, of which 364 died. There are rumors that oleander derivatives are being discussed for treatments. I am alarmed that this kind of gross irresponsibility is happening in the middle of our medical crisis.

I wouldn't rail against this practice if there was even a modicum demonstration of success, there isn't. I wouldn't speak out if medical panels had public discussions on this practice. What I don't like is snake oil salesmanship by the President of the United States, that costs people their lives.

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51 minutes ago, Saorsa said:

Use of donor plasma is NOT unproven.  It has been used successfully for many years for other diseases.

There hasn't been sufficient time to have a double blind study of COVID in this regard but it has proven successful in so many prior diseases that it's use is not a bad idea.

Recall that many HIV/AIDS drugs were released for compassionate use.  Note: COMPASSIONATE which was you basis for hate in another thread.

The UK has been using it and increasing it's use since May.  https://www.theguardian.com/science/2020/may/28/nhs-to-increase-covid-19-patients-receiving-antibody-therapy

Perhaps diseases need to file an epidemiological impact statement before evolving.

 

Perhaps you need to shut the fuck up about things you know nothing about? Oh wait, you're a Trumpalo, never mind.

Describe the complete course of clinical trials for viral infection therapeutics. We'll wait.

Meanwhile, yes convalescent plasma has been used to treat a lot of CoviD-19 patients, and many... perhaps most... of those case records indicate that there is some benefit and low risk. However, "case studies" just means that we have verifiable records, NOT that significant data (what's the different between data and significant data?) nor that categories of patients nor of treatment regimen have been compiled.

So you say to your doctor, "I want convalescent plasma (or antibody blood product or whatever unprofessional term you pick up off TV or YouTube)" and the doctor says "Fine" and puts in a request to draw phials for treatment. There may be some, there may not. If there is, your doctor has NO professional guide as to how much to give you, or when, for your stage in the disease. Of course a good doctor will have some idea how to do so, but he's really shooting in the dark.

Judging by what I've read, this is probably better than nothing. Doctors are pretty smart.

- DSK

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8 minutes ago, Steam Flyer said:

Perhaps you need to shut the fuck up about things you know nothing about? Oh wait, you're a Trumpalo, never mind.

Describe the complete course of clinical trials for viral infection therapeutics. We'll wait.

Meanwhile, yes convalescent plasma has been used to treat a lot of CoviD-19 patients, and many... perhaps most... of those case records indicate that there is some benefit and low risk. However, "case studies" just means that we have verifiable records, NOT that significant data (what's the different between data and significant data?) nor that categories of patients nor of treatment regimen have been compiled.

So you say to your doctor, "I want convalescent plasma (or antibody blood product or whatever unprofessional term you pick up off TV or YouTube)" and the doctor says "Fine" and puts in a request to draw phials for treatment. There may be some, there may not. If there is, your doctor has NO professional guide as to how much to give you, or when, for your stage in the disease. Of course a good doctor will have some idea how to do so, but he's really shooting in the dark.

Judging by what I've read, this is probably better than nothing. Some Doctors are pretty smart.

- DSK

FIFY, Therein lies the rub....  

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4 hours ago, Cal20sailor said:

Anything about this sentence you'd like to change Dr?

 

Any unproven cure-all is not going to bring back the 170K+ dead that were largely due to Trump's lack of leadership.  On the up side, I still think that you're smarter than Warbird but nowhere near Joker.  Keep trying.  

Don't be stupid.  Nothing is going to bring back the 170K dead. 

Not accepting a solution until you have absolute and exhaustive proof of effectiveness for the specific case rather than a hundred years of experience is stupider.

We are already buying hundreds of millions of doses of unproven vaccines.  How many will die before they are proven?  What will happen when some prove ineffective?  How many will die each year as the virus mutates in spite of inoculation just as they do with the current strains of flu?

Educate yourself

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4781783/

From the 1880s to the antibiotic era, CBP were used to prevent and treat many bacterial and viral infections in humans and in animal models9. In 1890, the first rational approach exploited by the physiologists von Behring and Kitasato10 to treat diphtheria was blood serum; initially, it was produced from immunised animals but soon whole blood or serum from recovered donors with a specific humoral immunity were identified as a possible source of specific antibodies of human origin. There are several examples of the use of CBP for the prophylaxis or treatment of bacterial infectious diseases such as scarlet fever in the 1920–40s and pertussis until the 1970s11.

Studies conducted during the Spanish influenza pandemic of 1918 to 1920 suggested that the use of CBP might be effective1217 and for the first time CP was identified as a potential therapy for a number of viral infections18. In the following decades, possible therapeutic efficacy was claimed for the management of measles, Argentine haemorrhagic fever, influenza, chickenpox, infections by cytomegalovirus, parvovirus B19 and, more recently, Middle East respiratory syndrome coronavirus (MERS-CoV), H1N1 and H5N1 avian flu, and severe acute respiratory infections (SARI) viruses1929. Furthermore, animal models of influenza pneumonia have shown the benefit of CS (protection against H1 and H3 challenge), equine hyperimmune F(ab’)2 globulin (protection against H5N1 challenge), and monoclonal antibodies (against H1, H3, and H5N1 challenge)3032. Interestingly, hospitalised patients with Lassa fever were also reported to have an apparently better outcome after CP administration33. Furthermore, a meta-analysis on Spanish influenza-CBP (involving 8 suitable studies for a total of 1,703 patients) showed a significantly reduced mortality risk in the treated patients and suggested that CBP could be evaluated in the treatment of H5N1-related diseases34.

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Why is an unqualified person dictating to the FDA and forcing unproven treatments on Americans?

Because Putin elected him.

 

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3 hours ago, shaggy said:
3 hours ago, Steam Flyer said:

Some Doctors are pretty smart.

 

FIFY, Therein lies the rub....  

Could we make it that most doctors are pretty smart about doctoring?

I've spent the last 25-plus-a-bit years hanging around with a lot of doctors and medical students. I've never met a single one that was actually stupid, in the manner of a person who is willfully ignorant and impervious to reason. However, I could write you a huge volume about how much doctors take for granted, how much they assume they know (about flying, fer instance, or handling money), and how much they assume they are smarter than those around them. Annoying and occasionally amusing.

However, if most professionals approached their job with the devotion to knowledge and science that doctors and aerospace engineers did, the human race would be seeing incredible advances in every field, beyond imagining, in fairly short order.

- DSK

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21 hours ago, badlatitude said:

FDA to authorize plasma treatment over scientists' objections

The Food and Drug Administration will issue an emergency authorization for blood plasma as a coronavirus treatment, President Donald Trump is set to announce Sunday evening, according to three administration officials.

The agency held off on the decision last week over concerns from government scientists that evidence for the treatment's effectiveness is thin — prompting Trump to accuse the FDA of slow-walking the therapy to harm his reelectionchances without offering any evidence to support his claim. It is not clear whether the FDA has received additional clinical trial data in the last week that would support the therapy's use.

An emergency authorization normally paves the way for expanded use of an experimental therapy. But it is not clear what effect the FDA's decision will have in the case of so-called convalescent plasma, which more than 70,000 Americans have already received — largely outside of randomized, controlled clinical trials that could prove whether the approach is effective.

Trump will announce the emergency authorization alongside his health secretary, Alex Azar, and FDA Commissioner Stephen Hahn, in a press conference one day before the start of the Republican National Convention. White House Press Secretary Kayleigh McEnany said the announcement would involve a "major therapeutic breakthrough," but experts have said the treatment is unlikely to be a game-changer in the fight against a pathogen that's killed more than 170,000 in the United States.

The treatment involves giving the sick antibody-rich plasma extracted from the blood of coronavirus survivors. In theory those antibodies should help recipients fight off the virus. But while plasma treatment has been used safely against diseases from diphtheria to Ebola over the past 130 years, its track record on effectiveness is mixed. And it has not yet been proven to work against the coronavirus.

Scott Gottlieb, Trump's first FDA commissioner, on Sunday said that plasma is "probably beneficial" for coronavirus patients, as he also acknowledged scientists' concerns about the lack of evidence for the treatment.

https://www.politico.com/news/2020/08/23/plasma-treatment-coronavirus-fda-trump-400390

Who is the unqualified person?

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6 minutes ago, BravoBravo said:

Who is the unqualified person?

I'll take a shot, you?

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19 hours ago, Steam Flyer said:

Is that a way of admitting that it doesn't fucking work, without admitting you and your fellow Trumpalos were wrong all along?

Fucking boneheads.

- DSK

Gin and tonic is tastier. and if you do it right, has a bit of vitamin C as well.

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28 minutes ago, Steam Flyer said:

Could we make it that most doctors are pretty smart about doctoring?

I've spent the last 25-plus-a-bit years hanging around with a lot of doctors and medical students. I've never met a single one that was actually stupid, in the manner of a person who is willfully ignorant and impervious to reason. However, I could write you a huge volume about how much doctors take for granted, how much they assume they know (about flying, fer instance, or handling money), and how much they assume they are smarter than those around them. Annoying and occasionally amusing.

However, if most professionals approached their job with the devotion to knowledge and science that doctors and aerospace engineers did, the human race would be seeing incredible advances in every field, beyond imagining, in fairly short order.

- DSK

My uncles brother was a surgeon. I think he knew a bunch about Cardio-pulmonary surgery(sorry if I got the terms wrong) and getting in the knickers of young nurses. Sadly, he married 6 of them. Not all at the same time. In at 25, out at 30.  The last couple weddings were kinda funny, in a sad way.  "Sorry, Darling, I know this is your first wedding, but I really don't want to buy another wedding gift, k?"

Kinda bit into his Porsche budget too.

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39 minutes ago, BravoBravo said:

Who is the unqualified person?

It's a suspense comment, you have to read through my posts to figure it out.

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55 minutes ago, Raz'r said:

My uncles brother was a surgeon. I think he knew a bunch about Cardio-pulmonary surgery(sorry if I got the terms wrong) and getting in the knickers of young nurses. Sadly, he married 6 of them. Not all at the same time. In at 25, out at 30.  The last couple weddings were kinda funny, in a sad way.  "Sorry, Darling, I know this is your first wedding, but I really don't want to buy another wedding gift, k?"

Kinda bit into his Porsche budget too.

I work with amazing nurses.  Some of them happen to be very attractive.  Whenever somebody asks me why I wanted to be a male nurse sometimes I say, "Have you seen the female nurses?"     I'm pretty sick of doctors flirting with them.  From what I can tell, they suck at hitting on women- at least these ones.   It's like "Bro, just shut up and show her your w-2. I'm trying to chart patient notes here, guy "   *puke*

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17 hours ago, bridhb said:

He also explained that there is a very limited supply.  

That's part of why this whole announcement is just silly.  There isn't enough supply, this is going to increase demand... typical trumpian stupidity.

17 hours ago, Steam Flyer said:

That's an excellent question.

It also raises the question, how much do antibody donors get paid?

- DSK

50 to 100, here.

7 hours ago, Dog said:

How is the government  "forcing unproven treatments on Americans"?

Why is Trump pretending this is a "breakthrough"?

7 hours ago, Steam Flyer said:

Please forgive me for being the suspicious type, but if Trump is approving it, it's either because somebody really did a good job kissing his butt for it, or it brings money his way. Insurance companies?

There's also the small question of the Convention, and the Dems having beat up on his Covid response for 4 days.  He's just desperate for something, anything, to tout as an accomplishment.

5 minutes ago, Clove Hitch said:

I work with amazing nurses.  Some of them happen to be very attractive.  Whenever somebody asks me why I wanted to be a male nurse sometimes I say, "Have you seen the female nurses?"     I'm pretty sick of doctors flirting with them.  From what I can tell, they suck at hitting on women- at least these ones.   It's like "Bro, just shut up and show her your w-2. I'm trying to chart patient notes here, guy "   *puke*

The time we all spent learning how to flirt, they were busy studying?

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39 minutes ago, frenchie said:

 

The time we all spent learning how to flirt, they were busy studying?

100%.   And that many of them are nerd types to begin with.  

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26 minutes ago, Clove Hitch said:
1 hour ago, frenchie said:

The time we all spent learning how to flirt, they were busy studying?

100%.   And that many of them are nerd types to begin with.  

One weakness of the emphasis on science in medicine, it brings all the near-sighted study worms to the yard.

I'm sure the docs on the make are annoyed that the prettiest nurses are not attracted by their attitude of condescending pedantry. You have a front-row seat in one of the grandest theaters of humanity.

- DSK

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20 hours ago, badlatitude said:

The elected head of the American government is using the bully pulpit of his office to advocate unproven cures upon an unwitting public.He is going on national television to promote cures that he has no professional knowledge about, or experience. He is not a doctor, a student, or a person with any medical background at all. His own cadre of professional experts have to go before the public to counter his opinion on the efficacy of the medicines he is pushing.The governmental heads of the departments responsible for public safety are bullied into making decisions or passing orders before the scientific studies to see if the drugs have actual benefit to the public.

This morning, it was announced that the FDA will release a vaccine before the full trials on its safety are conducted. We have already used a drug that international panels of scientists have rejected for safety or efficacy, in fact, the Veterans Administration bought 6.3 million tabs of this drug, Hydroxychloroquine.and administered it to 1,300 veterans at the beginning of the pandemic, of which 364 died. There are rumors that oleander derivatives are being discussed for treatments. I am alarmed that this kind of gross irresponsibility is happening in the middle of our medical crisis.

I wouldn't rail against this practice if there was even a modicum demonstration of success, there isn't. I wouldn't speak out if medical panels had public discussions on this practice. What I don't like is snake oil salesmanship by the President of the United States, that costs people their lives.

So your claim that the government is "forcing unproven treatments on Americans" is false isn't it?

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180k Americans lost to Covid, bullshitters. Maybe bullshit isn’t the best treatment option. 

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52 minutes ago, Dog said:

So your claim that the government is "forcing unproven treatments on Americans" is false isn't it?

No

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Why is an unqualified person dictating to the FDA and forcing unproven treatments on Americans?

Why is an unqualified person running this country?
Why is an unqualified person supported by a major political party?

Why is an unqualified person idolized by a third of Americans?

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4 hours ago, Dog said:

So your claim that the government is "forcing unproven treatments on Americans" is false isn't it?

 

3 hours ago, Fakenews said:

Hahn backs down from his ridiculous claims About convalescent plasma therapy for COVID but the concern remains hell fast track an unproven vaccine on Trump’s command.

https://www.politico.com/news/2020/08/25/fda-chief-plasma-benefits-criticism-401514

This would be awkward if dog had a brain, balls, or a sense of decency. Instead he’s just an old cuck masturbating in the corner.

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44 minutes ago, solosailor said:

I've heard practicing medicine without a license is illegal.

 

Are you implying that Dog does not have a license?!?

- DSK

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1 minute ago, AJ Oliver said:

Two days before he's gone.  Truth and honesty have no place in this Administration.  

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6 hours ago, Dog said:

So your claim that the government is "forcing unproven treatments on Americans" is false isn't it?

How soon you forget the millions of doses of hydroxychloroquine 

the VA purchased and gave to veterans. 

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4 hours ago, Cal20sailor said:

Two days before he's gone.  Truth and honesty have no place in this Administration.  

He will be part of the Friday news dump or else Th when Donnie gives his acceptance speech

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