lakedude

Hi, new member. Shopping for a small boat.

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I'm just going to throw out a wacky, untested idea for moving a dinghy in these circumstances: how about one of those pop-up gurneys, or whatever they might actually be called? You could roll the boat and stay above the railings.

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Lakedude:

I agree with you, the Walker Bay does look boring...but your son won't care.  Find any small sailing dinghy that you can afford and he can be the captain of, and he will love it.   If you feel he is safe (so you are calm) he will feel safe and free to learn and explore.   Maybe look for an old Optimist Pram, I know in some parts of the country folks are giving them away when they are no longer competitive and need a few hours of TLC.  You can slide it down the ramp sideways.    Wait to go find and 'exciting' boat with him when he's a little older.

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5 minutes ago, Champlain Sailor said:

Lakedude:

I agree with you, the Walker Bay does look boring...but your son won't care.  Find any small sailing dinghy that you can afford and he can be the captain of, and he will love it.   If you feel he is safe (so you are calm) he will feel safe and free to learn and explore.   Maybe look for an old Optimist Pram, I know in some parts of the country folks are giving them away when they are no longer competitive and need a few hours of TLC.  You can slide it down the ramp sideways.    Wait to go find and 'exciting' boat with him when he's a little older.

Bonus to that, you can slap a 2 stroke to the back and putz around as well.  I got into sooooo much trouble with that setup :P, Think gunkholing into downtown Waukegan...  The Junkies were less than impressed...    <_<

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3 hours ago, Admiral Hornblower said:

I think stuffing it (MFG Copperhead) into a woodchipper would be the best option.

You are young to be so jaded

But you're learning fast  ;)

FB- Doug

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I was in your position a while ago. I was scouring CL for Lasers, Sunfish etc. There's a Zest for sale but it was a little pricey. A per chance conversation with a friend revealed he had a Topper in the weeds behind his house, with everything but needed new lines. I took her home and cleaned her up, got new lines and I am sailing her. Fun little boat if you can find one. I leave it at the beach, and bring the mast, sail, rudder etc. home. It beach launches easy, and goes right on my roof rack. Weighs 95 lbs I think. Very sturdy boat. I can get me and the wife on it, so you and your kid should be no problem.

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3 hours ago, lakedude said:

 It was said to be too rowdy but I'm glad to be here

way too rowdy 

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The Walker Bay is not for sale new and I've found none in my area used.

I like the Topaz boats and would love to have a used one.

The RS Zest seems a bit better than the Topaz if we are talking new and roughly the same price.

I've decided not to travel to any big cities or any great distance to buy a used boat in unknown condition.

It is worth it to me to spend money on a new boat rather than drive around the country searching for old ones.

Closer used boats will be considered. There is a 14 foot Mon Ark for sale for $500 that is an hour and a half away, no trailer.

There is a guy that has a Laser for $1200 and other boats less than an hour away. I plan to look at those this weekend.

The Snark being light enough to carry and narrow enough to fit down the jetty on a dolly right side up, along with being cheap and easy to rig is really appealing. 

For $1200 I'd almost rather have a Snark than a Laser in my situation. 

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29 minutes ago, lakedude said:

The Snark being light enough to carry and narrow enough to fit down the jetty on a dolly right side up, along with being cheap and easy to rig is really appealing. 

For $1200 I'd almost rather have a Snark than a Laser in my situation. 

if you're sold on going the new+inexpensive route, could I talk you into upping an extra $500 for the sunflower over the super snark?  It sounds like (for your kid) the extra 4" of width and the splash deck may help with comfort and enjoyment of the experience. Otherwise, they appear to be very much the same boat.

I had a Snark for a while and enjoyed it for a time (Sea Devil/Skimmer) but after a while and sailing other boats, I determined that I wanted something else and sold it to fund my Force5.  There are some days, though, where I still wish I could just grab that vacuum-sealed styrofoam board and go.

I guess what i'm saying is, the most important thing is that you pick something out while you still have time to use it this summer/fall and get something that you and the kiddo will actually use.

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I've only sailed the bic once and sure I was way too big for it, but enough time spent sharing the water with them tells me one thing: avoid them. Personally, in your situation and if I could afford it, i'd get an RS feva, solid small-but-not-tiny kind of a boat. I've only sailed the bic once and sure I was way too big for it, but enough time spent watching kids sail them tells me one thing: avoid them. Personally, in your situation and if I could afford it, i'd get an RS feva for the same reasons already suggested. Great small-but-not-tiny kind of a boat. 

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Dolphin on a trailer for $400 2.5 hours away. Missing the pin that holds the rudder on. In fair shape. Not sure why Sunfish are so much more popular. Dolphin looks similar to my uneducated eye. Know where to get a long vertical pin to hold the rudder on? Are Dolphin parts hard to come by? Someone said not to look at Dolphins but this is the closest cheapest boat I've found. Wouldn't feel bad dragging it on the rocks...

Grestone I would consider a Sunflower. A guy at the factory thought he had a new Sunflower available so I started checking into it. The Super Snark is cheaper and would fit down the jetty easier but it looks like the Sunflower would also make it. The Snark is said to be faster even with the Sunflower's  increased sail area. Having a little more room and a little more stability would be nice. The splash deck is the saddest little thing I've ever seen but maybe it would come in handy. Oh, the factory did not have a Sunflower ready to go after all, it was a Sea Skimmer. 

So it looks like the Sea Skimmer is the cheapest of all the new boats that are actually available without going to a blem/second.

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9 hours ago, lakedude said:

Know where to get a long vertical pin to hold the rudder on?

McMaster-Carr.

30 minutes ago, fastyacht said:

Did I just hear speed room and stabiloty on the same snemtece as snark?

Yea. All mixed up. Options are on the table. Talking about getting a boat is not the same thing as taking action to get a boat. 

 @lakedude - suggested next step is: post a picture of what you bought.

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1 hour ago, martin 'hoff said:

 @lakedude - suggested next step is: post a picture of what you bought.

It is running a bit long isn't it? Time to poop or get of the pot.

I actually have been trying pretty hard to buy a boat. For example weeks ago I committed to buy a Sunfish with no trailer for $500. The owners live 2.5 hours one side of me and were traveling an hour the other side so they were going to drive right by my house. Done deal, except when the time came they decided not to drive the vehicle with the rack on top. That boat is sold now.

I called to buy a boat 4.5 hours away, not even sure what kind but the thing sparkled in spite of being quite old, sparkled! It was obviously very well taken care of. Sold before I could get there to the first person who came to look (no surprise there).

I called this morning on a local $700 Zuma with trailer that I expect is already sold. It is not listed as sold but the listing is a year old and the seller is not responding to PMs. Thought I'd try one polite call just to see.

Between Covid-19 and my less than ideal location it is harder to buy a boat than you might think. Can't buy a new Snark, Sunflower, or Walker Bay. Can't find anything other than a Dolphin that is reasonably close and cheap. Was told not to buy a Dolphin so that isn't a very exciting option.

People have been telling me to just get XYZ boat for $100 to $300 or even free but I've not seen any such thing anywhere near where I live.

 

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Re: Feva

I think if I was going to spend Feva money I'd go UFO instead. I know it isn't even the same thing but the UFO can fly!

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Found a picture of that $650 boat with trailer that was 4.5 hours away and sparkled. Shiny like new!  I knew it would go fast so I made immediate mid week arrangements on my end to go pick it up but it was already sold before I could get there. 

650 dollar shiny boat.jpg

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That $650 shiny boat is the one that got away.

Going to look at the $1200 Laser at 11:30 tomorrow.

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All right we are much closer to a decision. I just got an unexpected back pay check for a retroactive raise on hours worked, plus an expected back pay check for retirement. One of three things is going to happen tomorrow Saturday the 5th.

If we are going to get out on the water this season it is going to be the $1200 Laser w trailer or the $400 Dolphin with trailer minus rudder pin. The Laser is actually on the lake I live on but with 450 miles of shoreline the boat is a little over an hour away. 

Otherwise I'm going to give up for this season and wait to see what happens to prices and availability during the winter with the intention of getting a boat for next season. Will be looking for sales on new boats as well as looking at local used boats. 

Anyhow the Laser is in my sights for tomorrow and the desire to sail this season has the odds leaning towards buying so long as the boat is in decent shape. The Laser appears to be somehow related to a sailing club I didn't know we had. The add does not elaborate on the year and I did not think to ask. Pics are of the Laser and Sailing Club logo.

Any Laser specific thing I should keep an eye out for?

 

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Took a pass on the Laser and don't  feel like driving to get the Dolphin 

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image.thumb.png.4c00fbe3d83c84178ff0e4df48c89acc.png

Good God Man....  Go down any of those weekends and all your questions will be answered.  You will probably be invited to crew and will probably get offered a beer or 2.  Bet the kid can get into a sailing progarm..  Just Go....  

 

I want to bring the 20 down for the Ruler of the lake race.   Bet at 222 we would have a shot, and My gotd...  Having bragging rights for a year..  I bet I would get a funny hat....  

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Right next to the Laser was a Zuma! To my eye the Zuma was in much better condition  but unfortunately it was not for sale.

The deck of the Laser was a little soft. Not knowing if that was normal I gave the Zuma a couple of pushes and the Zuma was much more solid  The Laser was a 1982 model. I think the top was painted and chipping or the original finish was delaminating. The Laser was not an aesthetically pleasing boat. To my eye the $400 Dolphin looked better. 

I'm done looking at used boats.

20200905_115431.jpg

20200905_144338.jpg

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That lovely $650 shiny boat was a Glasstron Alpha 15.

 

PS I don't expect anyone to care about boats I didn't buy. Some of this is just to remember the whole saga this is turning out to be. 

Screenshot_20200905-135125_Facebook.jpg

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Glad the mystery boardboat is identified. I figured it had to be one of those gas crisis powerboat crossovers.

Anyone know if Art Carlson drew that Alpha 15? Sailboatdata doesn't show any Glastron boats at all.

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I used a Walker Bay (rowing) to get out to my Corsair for 10 years - paid $200 for it used and sold it this year for $200. Never bought the sailing kit for it.

It's really a row boat - but a good one at that. I braved many a swell on the Sakonnet (In RI) in that thing and felt like I was in the dories in Moby Dick. Never felt in any danger with just me (200 lbs) in the boat rowing. One say when the wind was light I just rowed all the way to the other side (Tiverton) and back (3 miles rt) and then the wind was up by the time I returned. 

Great dinghy - not really a sailboat but rowing is great exercise and great fun so if you just wanted to Float around and row and sometimes said (and found a used one with the kit), it would be OK......

I'm reading this thread with interest since I sold our place in RI and my Sprint 750 so now I am w/o a boat. We have a cottage in Sarasota FL to winter in....but I didn't want the big Sprint down there. If I can't be sailing in 15 minutes I don't want to do (no hassle, no mast raising, no long drives). 

But I do like some of these boats - I could keep them at the SSS and just roll 'em down to the beach. 

I'm always torn b/c once in a while I want to take friends for a ride - that's where the tri and even a cat will be of benefit  - bigger mono's are usually tight or heavier for 3 adults.

They have a fleet of rentals so maybe I'd just use their wave or day sailor. 

Well, they say the best days are when you buy a boat (looking!) and when you sell. Happy to have sold mine and someone got a great boat and deal...and I'd sail that boat again in a second (in my dreams when I build a waterfront home in RI)...but for now.....some of the boats above are beauties (the new ones!). Not tight on money...so I could treat myself to one of those "feature packed" models.....but, then again, I've always had a tough time paying "retail"...May just visit the ZIM showroom down there in RI...

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Going to get a new boat unless a used one just falls into my lap. Wife has nixed the UFO and Feva due to cost. I've nixed the factory seconds/blems due to laziness and not wanting to deal with any problems for a few years at least. 

The short list:

Sea Skimmer (new idea) purchased with 2 rigs,  the stock rig and an extra lateen rig (assuming this is even possible). Advantages are cheapest, easy to rig, and narrow enough to get down the jetty. Actually the only boat on the list narrow enough to get down the jetty right side up. No love but strong contender if lateen rig is possible. Easy and cheap, just like me!

Taz so cute I love this boat. Advantages are fairly cheap, self bailing, light enough to be carried by two. Perfect boat for my son to solo on when he gets older.

Zest with ergo features and room for the wife. Easily the best boat but too heavy to carry and the most expensive. Might need a trailer driving cost further, harder to launch because bigger.

Bravo IDK as expensive as the Zest, super easy to rig. Can't run downwind which could be a dealbreaker due to the skinny nature of the lake where I live. The wind tends to follow the water length wise so there is going to be a lot of beating and running. Won't be really able to reach until we reach a spot where the lake widens out. I think the Bravo is out.

So there it is, Sea Skimmer, Taz and Zest. Three boats all very different from one another.

When do the end of season deals usually start? Last year's model is fine with me.

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7 hours ago, lakedude said:

When do the end of season deals usually start? Last year's model is fine with me.

Haha. As if that were even a thing.

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14 hours ago, lakedude said:

Bravo IDK as expensive as the Zest, super easy to rig. Can't run downwind which could be a dealbreaker due to the skinny nature of the lake where I live.

Wait what? Which couch sailor told you that catamarans can't sail downwind?

DRC

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Agree with Dave, I own and race both the UFO (chicken mode) and the Hobie Wave (big brother to the Bravo).  I ALWAYS go dead downwind with both, fastest way to the bottom mark/gate for me!  The Bravo would be damn near indestructible and give you "cat" speed as a boost.  I would definitely NOT rule out the Bravo.

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The "cat" part isn't the problem with the Bravo. The Bravo lacks a boom, which is great in a way. No clunking the kid in the head with a hunk of aluminum but tricky to go downwind as I understand it.

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Several folks over on SailNet warned me off of cats in general for the intended use with the 6 year old. There was a used Prindle 16 for cheap and they said "NO". I can't seem to find where I was told that the boomless Bravo would have trouble running down wind. Some of the advice from SailNet:

 

"I have a Prindle 16. It's the boat in my avatar pic. It's a powerful boat. I don't take my 6 year old on it.
Aside from being a powerful boat with a low boom and a finger eating traveller it has a 27 foot mast and weighs 300 pounds.
This is not the droid you're looking for"

and 

"yep, fellow beach cat owner here (hobie 16). Tons of fun, but not great for kiddos."

and

"I have had some pretty spectacular pitchpoles and crashes over the years that I'd never want to put a kid through."

and

"I only got the 16 on one pontoon once, soon followed by it being on its side. I needed help from a powerboat to get it back upright."

 

I figure whatever boat we get is going to get dumped over and the boat needs to be able to be righted with by just grabbing the dagger/center board.

 

image.gif

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A Prindle or Hobie 16 is a helluva lot different than a Bravo. It is like comparing an Opti to a Musto Skiff. Both monohulls...

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2 minutes ago, Bill5 said:

A Prindle or Hobie 16 is a helluva lot different than a Bravo. It is like comparing an Opti to a Musto Skiff. Both monohulls...

Sure, the Bravo is smaller but there is the issue of it being boomless (which I like in some ways) and the possible downwind problem that might create.

 I think the "cat" advice applies to the UFO and is another reason not to get a UFO, at least for a few years till the kid is bigger and can swim. The UFO is in my sights longer term but not for now.

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You have to remember, the Wave, and to a lesser extent the Bravo, are sold to resorts as safe boats any (insert non sailing ) person can take out, and have a tough time getting themselves into trouble.  Yes, there may be days (windy) where you should not got out, but that will hold true for ANY boat you buy.  The Bravo would give you a much bigger safety cushion then most monohulls, and I agree, bigger cats are NOT your answer.  As far as boomless, the Wave has no boom either and sails just great with that configuration, regardless of point of sail.  The Bravo is one boat you should really take for a sail before you rule it out, I think you will be very surprised.  Just a not, I am NOT a connected to Hobie in any fashion other than being a Wave owner.  Good luck!!!

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16 minutes ago, lakedude said:

Sure, the Bravo is smaller but there is the issue of it being boomless (which I like in some ways) and the possible downwind problem that might create.

 

I think Hobie did sell a boom kit for Bravo at some point.

I think maybe you've been improperly warned to avoid Bravo because of a rumour/assumption it isn't absolutely 10/10 when dead downwind. If you like everything else about the Bravo, go somewhere and rent one. 

I have a boat with a similar furling mast and it is really great when you are trying to keep passengers relaxed when they are nervous and you can just add a little sail at a time. Pull a string to roll the sail up for a swim, explore a sandbar. No doused sail to stumble over. You can build a better racing rig but it is pretty hard to beat furling mast for messing around and killing time. You want to spend time on this boat, not get to point X asap.

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I think we are down to 2. I've decided not to get boat that would be all but impossible to launch from the yard or perhaps one of my neighbor's yards. One neighbor has a gentler slope and the other has stairs. The stairs are a huge help getting across the rocky slope. So the bigger boats are all out due to cost and difficulty launching from the yard(s), leaving the Taz and the Skimmer. I almost ordered a Taz last night before bed because it is cute, cheap, and would make a great boat for the kid in a few years. Also US One Design allows for an online order with fixed shipping cost so no need to play games with an unknown shipping cost.

I'm sure if it was not for CV19 the folks at Meyer's boat would have provided better service but I've made several calls to dealers and later the factory direct and got run around. Buying a boat should not be so hard. 

So I'm going to check the posts that just popped up and then maybe put my money where my mouth is...

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Darn you guys for making good points. Very little has been said about the Bravo up until now. I think eFrank gave the Bravo a thumbs up early on. 

The comments on SailNet were warning me off the Prindle 16 not the Bravo. Almost nothing has been said about the Bravo on either forum except I swear someone said something about it not going downwind but that could have been in a review or a video comment.

I love the ease of rigging the Bravo, The boomless aspect seems great as does the furling sail. The Bravo goes from sailing to sail completely wrapped up in seconds! No dagger board to worry about as well.

I wish I could go see and sail some of these boats but I'm not sure how that would work. There is nowhere around here to do that. I'll put a post out on our lake page and see what pops up.

What happens when you dump a Bravo over? Back in the day those of us on Lasers/Banshees/Sunfish could right our boats with ease. The majestic cats were so awesome to watch as they speed along but there was trouble when they dumped over. They tended to go full turtle (Ha that was the name of my first boat!) and people seemed to really struggle to get them upright.Some would tie a milk jug to the top of their mast to keep the boat from turtleing.

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Answered my own question:

"Hobie mast float and righting line included."

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Both the Wave and Bravo have "Bobs" on the top of the mast to help keep the mast/boat from turtleing, while a bit unsightly, you soon forget about it until that time comes when you are glad it is there!  Both boats come with righting lines, and I think the Bravo may have under the hull straps to assist in righting as well.   Not quite the firedrill like on the bigger cats.

 

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Another thought, as the Bravo is rotomolded, you could leave it just about the water line and drag it in, whereas a fiberglass boat would get scratched to hell.  The rotomold plastic is very forgiving in this sense.

 

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14 minutes ago, koolkat505 said:

Another thought, as the Bravo is rotomolded, you could leave it just about the water line and drag it in, whereas a fiberglass boat would get scratched to hell.  The rotomold plastic is very forgiving in this sense.

 

Well, plastic boats get scratched all to heck, too. But nobody seems to care. It can be smoothed over with a heat gun but you need a very delicate touch.

My wife and I kayaked together for years, I had a very nice Eddyline and she had an almost-as-nice Pamlico. Over the years I treated mine like I do my racing sailboats, ie never bump or drag, set down carefully and preferably not on pavement, etc etc, clean it after every use, etc etc. After 6 or 7 years, mine still looked almost new whereas hers looked like it had been dragged down a dirt road. She was angry about that when it came time to sell, too late.

FB- Doug

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If I lived one house over and had a nice gentle slope into the lake a different choice might be made. One could drag or cart any number of boats from the neighbor's house but my land is pretty hard to traverse and only 2 boats from the list are small and light enough that they might be possible to launch from my yard. The ************ boats would be the best in this regard but their customer service has been dreadful (due to C19, they are shorthanded).

My current plan is to get the shortest, cutest and best boat for Ian to solo. I'm going to try and leave it on the dock, like a kayak, at least during boating season and launch it with the help of a keel roller like the one shown. Advantages are low cost, self bailing, synthetic blades (not really a fan of wood in the water) and availability. 

US One Design has a little better price and fixed cost shipping. 

I doubt I could get away with leaving any of the larger boats on my dock. They would take up too much room and the corps are likely to notice them. I'm hoping the little boat looks enough like a canoe/kayak/rowboat that I'll get away with it. If that does not work out I'll enlist the help of my older son to muscle the boat up and down the hill.

Screenshot_20200907-120401_Amazon Shopping.jpg

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You know one good thing about Hobie is that there might be a semi-local dealer... Hmmm

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7 hours ago, lakedude said:

Several folks over on SailNet warned me off of cats in general for the intended use with the 6 year old. There was a used Prindle 16 for cheap and they said "NO". I can't seem to find where I was told that the boomless Bravo would have trouble running down wind. Some of the advice from SailNet:

 

"I have a Prindle 16. It's the boat in my avatar pic. It's a powerful boat. I don't take my 6 year old on it.
Aside from being a powerful boat with a low boom and a finger eating traveller it has a 27 foot mast and weighs 300 pounds.
This is not the droid you're looking for"

and 

"yep, fellow beach cat owner here (hobie 16). Tons of fun, but not great for kiddos."

and

"I have had some pretty spectacular pitchpoles and crashes over the years that I'd never want to put a kid through."

and

"I only got the 16 on one pontoon once, soon followed by it being on its side. I needed help from a powerboat to get it back upright."

 

I figure whatever boat we get is going to get dumped over and the boat needs to be able to be righted with by just grabbing the dagger/center board.

 

image.gif

Now really, sailnet over us??  Dude I am hurt.....  You actually have some of the best cat sailors on the planet that lurk here just so you know.  Couple designers on that level too..  so um..  yea.  I would take the advice of this board over all others when it comes to cats....  Well, almost anything sailboat related (and many many many other areas) actually...  

You have also spoken directly to one of the predominant dingy builders on the planet today and he has given you good advice...  

Now.  Please just get on with it.  It has been what 2 weeks and you are no closer to sailing...  Your best bet, again, is going to be to go to the YC on a race day and check stuff out.  They will have lines on boats, that are 10x better than the snark, sitting in fields that you can probably have for free.  They will know of every boat worth anything in a 100 mi radius and may even have a spare whatever laying around you can try for a few weeks, just go and offer your services.  Hold up the 12 pack and yell I can crew.  The monkeys will come running.   ;)

I can also guarantee they will give you a beer, a ride and prob ask you to crew all for free,(well a 12 pack), just ask to learn. 

 

Or continue on your quest to utilize strangers on the inets to guide you on your quest..  It is entertaining after all...  Otherwise this is just internet speak..  <_<

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Haha. The lurker power here is in fact epic. I know some of the commenters and they are no slouches. In fact "pro" in every way except not getting paid to sail.

As for hobie wave bravo etc.

I sailed one of these (I have to figure out which one) with no boom on a resort in Mexico. 10 Years ago. By creating a "human boom vang" we got that thing SIZZLING downwind, gybing through 140  and just tearing it up. Great fun. The wind got to 25 and we just kept sailing. Way less tricky than my 505 or any other dinghy for that matter.

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8 hours ago, lakedude said:

"I have a Prindle 16. It's the boat in my avatar pic. It's a powerful boat. I don't take my 6 year old on it.
Aside from being a powerful boat with a low boom and a finger eating traveller it has a 27 foot mast and weighs 300 pounds.
This is not the droid you're looking for"

and 

"yep, fellow beach cat owner here (hobie 16). Tons of fun, but not great for kiddos."

and

"I have had some pretty spectacular pitchpoles and crashes over the years that I'd never want to put a kid through."

and

"I only got the 16 on one pontoon once, soon followed by it being on its side. I needed help from a powerboat to get it back upright."

 

I figure whatever boat we get is going to get dumped over and the boat needs to be able to be righted with by just grabbing the dagger/center board.

 

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1. A prindle 16 or hobie 16 are about 200% more boat than a bravo. That's an apples to hand-grenades comparison.

2. A lot of this advice appears poorly informed. A 16 sailor who cannot fly a hull is a beginner sailor.

DRC

Ps. shaggy is right. Go buy that jetwind and launch immediately 

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Oh, and we got that plastic hobie flying a hull with the two kids and me aboard. It was FUN!

Edit: IT was a wave. Looked it up.
 

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I was only on SailNet because SA took a long time to approve me as a member. I do trust the excellent advice and appreciate the wonderful help y'all have been. Thank you all for your time, truly. I mean it.

Our priorities have changed and been refined over the past few weeks. For a while we were broke but now that is settled out. I have not enjoyed looking at used boats and we are fortunate enough to be able to buy new.

I would love to go hang out and crew and I totally would except CV19. I'm old with high PB and my older son has asthma so CV19 could hit us hard. We will not be in any large groups of people any time soon.

 

 

 

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7 hours ago, lakedude said:

 

What happens when you dump a Bravo over?

Here is a good video of the proper righting technique.

 

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I'm hoping to leave the hull on my dock and whatever is there needs to pass for a rowboat or kayak. The Corps are going to notice a catamaran.

If I were to get a cat I would also need to get a trailer.

I'm leaning towards a Taz because it will fit on my dock,  is inexpensive,  and will make a perfect boat for my son Ian in a few years.

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5 minutes ago, efrank said:

Here is a good video of the proper righting technique.

 

Finally a good use for PWC fir sailing purposes.

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I hope I've been using the plus ones correctly. Just saw a downvote option, never untended to give anything but praise for all the help.

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1 hour ago, lakedude said:

I hope I've been using the plus ones correctly. Just saw a downvote option, never untended to give anything but praise for all the help.

I dunno, between that and the going to sailNet....

The only way to make it up to us is to buy a lot of BBQ and beer and invite us all over to sail your new boat.

FB- Doug

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If y'all end up over here for a boat race or something please do check in. The grill is going all summer and there should be a nice group of boats to choose from. Maybe only one small sailboat but also 2 stand up Jet Skis and a nice old inboard. We are pretty worried about CV19 so we would ask for that to be respected. You can challenge the old man to a tub war if you like.

We live on the dirty skinny south end of the lake. All the big fancy sailboats are up north on the bigger clearer water. Come on by!

20200907_182235.jpg

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In the end only one boat is going to be purchased (for now) which means all the other great boats will not get purchased. If I lived just one house over I'd have better access and might end up with a Zest or Bravo and later maybe a UFO as well. Where I live now the smaller boat will work better.

There is a boat ramp very close but there is no good place to beach a sailboat while you park and no good place to rig one. The ramp also means idiots who clog up the works who can't back a trailer or park one or who take forever on the ramp. People use the ramp as a swimming area rather than go to an actual swim area. I paid better attention to the ramp this weekend with sailboats in mind and that pushed my decision towards boats that could be stored and launched from the dock.

There are other ramps that might be better for sailboats but they are farther away.

 

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Hey neighbor.

I can second the dearth of sailboats in the area of all sizes. I bought a project Force 5 in Fayetteville a couple of weeks ago, and have been making good progress on getting it ship-shape. I live a bit to your West.

Have you considered the Tera instead of the Taz to improve on the potential for future growth? I'm looking at those for my grandkids.

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The Taz seems to be a similar size as the Tera but the Tera only claims to support 70kg and I go a little more than that. The specs say that the Taz will carry 90kg, which is 20 kg more than the Tera. Early in this thread Martin thought that the Taz would be able to carry us.

Also, assuming I'm understanding US One Design's website the Taz can be had for over $1000 cheaper, which is a lot of money. The Tera is too close in price to the Zest so you might as well get the Zest. Except in my case I need to stay small because I'm going to try and keep the boat on my small dock.

I think I can get a Taz for $3210 including shipping. Going to call to confirm price and availibilty Tuesday.

OTOH my birthday is coming up and maybe my wife will get me a UFO (she won't but a man can dream). 

If anybody thinks the Taz is a huge mistake start screaming now.

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I figure on getting a UFO, Bravo or Zest someday when my kid swipes the Taz from me. Proud day that will be.

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4EYES Hey neighbor!

It looks like the Tera does not have the fancy kick up centerboard like the Zest.  

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West Coast was guessing $300 to $600 shipping but when I actually put the boat in the cart and gave my address it came to a bit more. That puts the Tera at almost half again more expensive than the Taz ( assuming I can actually get one for $3210 and it isn't a mistake). 

Screenshot_20200908-020938_Samsung Internet.jpg

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Why wasn't an opti one of the options in this debate from the outset?

DRC

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12 minutes ago, Dave Clark said:

Why wasn't an opti one of the options in this debate from the outset?

DRC

I don't especially care for the opti boats or at least I imagine that I would not like them.

My background is with Sunfish and of course the Banshee. Those boats could tip over and come up dry enough to keep sailing. As I understand it if you swamp an opti you are stuck bailing. This is a bigger deal to me than the center vs dagger issue. I expect the Taz to be self bailing.

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50 minutes ago, lakedude said:
1 hour ago, Dave Clark said:

Why wasn't an opti one of the options in this debate from the outset?

DRC

I don't especially care for the opti boats or at least I imagine that I would not like them.

My background is with Sunfish and of course the Banshee. Those boats could tip over and come up dry enough to keep sailing. As I understand it if you swamp an opti you are stuck bailing. This is a bigger deal to me than the center vs dagger issue. I expect the Taz to be self bailing.

The Opti has some plusses and minusses (maybe that should be minii). It's a great boat for little kids. It's stable, sails really well (balance, good in light or heavy air, responsive), the loads are easy for a kid's muscles, and what's more (and people rarely think about) the arm reach required is short. They're simple and they store compactly. They have a wide range of safety for some really amazing conditions that kids can learn to cope with. Best of all IMHO, they are a "kid's boat" in that the kids can do everything needed themselves, from carrying it down the beach (well, 2 or 3 kids can) to rigging it up to cleaning it, to adjusting the controls for tuning etc etc etc.

Most of the minusses are pushed onto the kids and parents by the racing class organization. Racing Optis and using them to teach young kids to sail (usually synonymous with teaching them to race) and coaching in Optis is a big business. Some parents take it REALLY seriously. Some parents are assholes. It's got all the problems of competitive kid's soccer rolled into a much more expensive and stressful environment.

Swamping- yeah they do. This was almost universal in small boats, back in the day. On the plus side, they are easy to right and easy to get back into, from a capsize. Full of water, they will never never sail away from a kid in the water. Bailing them out does suck, however it also carries a plus.... the kid will learn to sail instead of just capsizing for fun all day.

About twelve years ago I helped start a junior program and we bought Optis.... at the insistence of two of the parents, which was kind of a warning sign but urned out fine. I knew little about Optis, having grown up sailing sneakboxes and El Toros and Turnabouts and other little swampy POS's. I was very dubious about Optis which I saw as needlessly old-fashioned as well as carrying the burden of "you gotta RACE!!" However I came to really appreciate them to teach sailing, and letting the kids get a taste of real skipper-hood and of owning a real boat.

FB- Doug

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1 hour ago, lakedude said:

 

I don't especially care for the opti boats or at least I imagine that I would not like them.

My background is with Sunfish and of course the Banshee. Those boats could tip over and come up dry enough to keep sailing. As I understand it if you swamp an opti you are stuck bailing. This is a bigger deal to me than the center vs dagger issue. I expect the Taz to be self bailing.

If you do it right tje boat has almost no water after a capsize.

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So should I cancel the Taz order and get an opti? 

We are not going to be racing anybody. There are nearly zero sailboats on my end of the lake. We are going to be dumping the boat as soon as the kid is halfway comfortable in the water. No pressure at all. In fact this is mostly a way to get the kid into the water so yeah, there will be lots of dumping in our future. Don't care if he learns to sail perfectly, God knows I don't.

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$215 shipping for semi local only. They are getting quotes and if the quotes are too high the search will continue. Website said fixed shipping cost. Looks like they are going to update their website because of me...

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31 minutes ago, lakedude said:

So should I cancel the Taz order and get an opti? 

We are not going to be racing anybody. There are nearly zero sailboats on my end of the lake. We are going to be dumping the boat as soon as the kid is halfway comfortable in the water. No pressure at all. In fact this is mostly a way to get the kid into the water so yeah, there will be lots of dumping in our future. Don't care if he learns to sail perfectly, God knows I don't.

Just buy the Taz and get sailing

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39 minutes ago, Admiral Hornblower said:
1 hour ago, lakedude said:

So should I cancel the Taz order and get an opti? 

We are not going to be racing anybody. There are nearly zero sailboats on my end of the lake. We are going to be dumping the boat as soon as the kid is halfway comfortable in the water. No pressure at all. In fact this is mostly a way to get the kid into the water so yeah, there will be lots of dumping in our future. Don't care if he learns to sail perfectly, God knows I don't.

Just buy the Taz and get sailing

YES!

I think this is a good decision, new boat, and one you can sail together which will NOT be possible in an Opti.

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This is what an adult looks like in an Opti. And I am not as skinny as I used to be (and this was a couple of years ago), but am not a large person.

You can sail the Taz together, then turn it over to him to sail single OR bring a friend, which is not a good option in an Opti unless the kids are really tiny.

How cold does your lake get in the winter?

FB- Doug

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If you are buying new, I'd suggest staying with the Taz.   Great little boat for your son.   You'll be able to mess around on it a bit too, but its not going to be particularly comfortable for you.   Much more modern design than the Opti.   If you could get an Opti really cheap locally, I'd say go for it.  But if you are biting the bullet and buying new, the Taz will be more fun for your son.

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6 hours ago, lakedude said:

Too late for complaints now...

Screenshot_20200908-101302_Samsung Internet.jpg

First - Bravo! Making a move will get you a boat.

Now, in the post right before the "order number", I see RS Tera in your "shopping cart". Couple posts down, you're talking about your order for a Taz. What boat did you buy?

Second - don't do the Opti. If he loves sailing the Taz/Tera, and there's a club nearby where he can play and compete with other kids, there'll be club Optis. If it turns out that he loves competing on those Opti races which is about a particular social experience connected with sailing, but is not necessarily about sailing, then you might want to get an opti.

My son loves the Taz. Loves every boat. Can't stand the opti, nor can we stand the spirit around opti races around here. We love other sailing competitions. But (some) opti parents and (some) opti coaches are bad news.

(edit: this topic can end up hijacking the thread -- if anyone wants a big debate about optis, opti parents, etc please have that in a different thread, which will be the 100th thread where this horse is beaten to death once more...)

 

Edited by martin 'hoff
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I was trying to compare the delivered cost of the Taz and the Teva. The only way to do that was to put em in the Cart and enter address information. I was hoping to get the Taz with $215 shipping but that turned out to be wishful thinking. 

Iff the shipping comes in at a reasonable level we will be the proud new owners of a Taz.

IMHO the Teva is overpriced and too close in cost to the Zest. 

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On 9/3/2020 at 10:52 AM, Streetwise said:

I'm just going to throw out a wacky, untested idea for moving a dinghy in these circumstances: how about one of those pop-up gurneys, or whatever they might actually be called? You could roll the boat and stay above the railings.

How about we slap some wheels on an ironing board?

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The opti has always been out.

The thread should be about over unless shipping is outrageous on the Taz. 

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I was just in the middle of posting about used boats when the phone rang. Shipping will be $330 instead of $215 which is close enough so a TAZ is on the way!

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1 hour ago, lakedude said:

I was just in the middle of posting about used boats when the phone rang. Shipping will be $330 instead of $215 which is close enough so a TAZ is on the way!

Woo Hoo, now go have some fun..  

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I'm still recovering from the fun we had this weekend!

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2 hours ago, lakedude said:

I was just in the middle of posting about used boats when the phone rang. Shipping will be $330 instead of $215 which is close enough so a TAZ is on the way!

@lakedude - Fantastic! - 
 

@Defy also got a Taz for his kid - discussion here 


And some day you'll have tamed the Taz, and might want to put a turbo on it...

 

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6 minutes ago, martin 'hoff said:


 

@Defy also got a Taz for his kid - discussion here 

 

 

I saw that thread weeks ago. It is what lead me to register at SA in the first place. Reading again with a new perspective. Thanks for all your help Martin!

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Martin which cover did you get for your Taz? 

I've got a nearly 20 year old inboard that looks like new thanks to the cover. Spent $700 on a Sunbrella which hurt but it was worth it because it protected the boat from the sun and lasted forever.

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On 9/8/2020 at 1:07 PM, Admiral Hornblower said:

Just buy the Taz and get sailing

At a second and more thorough look, it seems the TAZ will be a better fit for us as well.

The toy budget just has to recover from my recent F5 purchase. :P

Lakedude  did you see the one at the dealer in CO?

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Re Colorado: $3400? That is the highest price I've seen...

US One Design has them for $2995 plus shipping which in my case was $330.

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Good to know. 

Sorry for the interruption.

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