lakedude

Hi, new member. Shopping for a small boat.

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11 minutes ago, Steam Flyer said:

ratcheting

Put a ratchet on the rope you pull ...?

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2 hours ago, martin 'hoff said:

Put a ratchet on the rope you pull ...?

I believe SF was referring to a ratchet in the roller itself. So the boat would roll up on the roller, and slide down as the ratchet holds the roller in place. 

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2 hours ago, Bill5 said:

I believe SF was referring to a ratchet in the roller itself. So the boat would roll up on the roller, and slide down as the ratchet holds the roller in place. 

Agreed. And as he's not finding one, I suggested and alternative approach...

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Most folks at our club have given up on rollers for launching off the dock.  They are higher and often don't roll that well with something heavy balanced on them, especially solo recovery in a strong cross wind.  Instead we opt for a strip of plastic on the dock edge.  Search for "King Starboard plastic".  I put down a 4' x 2" strip on the dock edge about 8 years ago and the boat fiberglass is still glossy, and the plastic is holding up great year round.  Just make sure the screw heads remain sunk down.  I splash a little water on it before launching just to make it as slippery as possible for our 300+ lbs boat..   Not sure how well it works with a plastic boat like the Taz though.

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Oh I'm beginning to see the problem, the balance. On a trailer you have bunks and other guides to keep things straight and balanced. With just a keel roller there is nothing to keep the boat on the point of the "V" except muscles. It will want to lay over one way or another. Hmmmm. I've got some plastic boards made from recycled milk jugs that might work for skids. They are orange brown in color.

With 2 handles in back the Taz might come out stern first using the 2 handles to keep the boat centered but then how to get the boat up to the roller. 

LFL thanks for the suggestion, I see the truth of it. 

I thing a 3 roller system would work but that would be too much trouble/expense and too noticable. I am trying to fly under the radar with all this."

The sheets of King Plastic I'm finding are much too square in shape. Did you rip a wide piece down to 2" or did you find a long skinny piece for sale?

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58 minutes ago, martin 'hoff said:

Agreed. And as he's not finding one, I suggested and alternative approach...

Ahh. Gotcha. 

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6 hours ago, Steam Flyer said:

 (drywall screws work but they corrode quickly)

 

Yeah only one kind of screws are going out on the dock.

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How high off the water is the end of the dock/swimming platform?

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1 hour ago, Bill5 said:

How high off the water is the end of the dock/swimming platform?

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The dock is 27 inches off the water at the far end that faces the lake. The dock is not completely level so the close end that faces shore is a few centimeters closer to the water. 

The dock is 8 feet by 16 feet, the jetty is 4 feet by 24 feet. The hand rail is 43 inches higher than the walkway.

The diagonal metal supports that go to the leg lifting winches block the area on the close end and a ladder eliminates the left side of the dock for launching. The only 2 spots that are possible are the 16 foot long side that faces the lake or a slightly less than 4 foot area on the short side opposite the ladder on the right side. We launched Jet Skis from the short side on the right but Jet Skis are narrower than the Taz will be. 

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Re: cutting plastic... Tap Plastics cut to size when I purchased it there, don't recall what they used.  Sorry, challenging to remember 8 days ago much less 8 years!

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2 hours ago, lakedude said:

The dock is 27 inches off the water at the far end. 

That’s a pretty healthy drop. I am trying to picture that 27” lift and the steep angle you will be dealing with in getting it up and over when taking it out of the water. Does this sound difficult to anyone else? This distance also adds challenges to getting on and off the boat. 
 

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It is a good sized drop. Works fine with the motorboat but the sailboat will be quite a ways down. Might just jump into the water first and climb on or might tie up a tube as a step. Don't know how 27 inches will be for dragging the whole boat out of the water. 

Thinking about modifying my existing cart to have a shorter wheel base so it will fit between the railings on the jetty. Thinking about using the Aqua Cart to move the boat on edge.

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2 hours ago, Bill5 said:

That’s a pretty healthy drop. I am trying to picture that 27” lift and the steep angle you will be dealing with in getting it up and over when taking it out of the water. Does this sound difficult to anyone else? This distance also adds challenges to getting on and off the boat. 
 

Put a ladder on it. Or tie a couple can-docks. These are tippy boats.

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Looks like the decision has been made - didn't know the idea of a cat was in there...but, yeah, the others here have told you the real story. These "resort line" Hobies are very different than the FG thin hull older models. 

Miami Cats rents them out on Biscayne Bay and I've taken the Getaway out in 15 steady 20 gusts - single handed and with the wife - and never had anything except pure fun. I've taken the Wave out in a Bahamas resort (when I was not as experienced) and the wife and I went for many miles in solid 18 MPH winds - never felt in the slightest danger. I've also rented them on Gulf in Bradenton FL (off the beach) and had a blast. In general those are only going to fly a hull in a fairly stiff breeze and, even then, they don't seem tippy. 

In RI I've seen people who wanted to sail them dangerously - seeking out the 20+ winds and hiking - they had the hulls flying, but they found the coves, etc. with the highest winds on purpose. A recreational sailor wouldn't be looking for trouble like that. The other Hobie Wave on our RI beach always goes out with piles of family and friends and a big dog standing on the bow. 

I think I enjoyed the Getaway with the wing seats more than any - but it is very heavy (that's why I liked it)...it also has a jib (some models don't). The Getaway is like a party deck on the water! I'm smiling just thinking about it. Well, if Providence allows I'll be down in SRQ in December and will start out on the rental Waves....

Renting the wave they have - and maybe owning a small light mono....might just end up being the best of all worlds. I could haul the mono back up here to New England and sail it on the CT river nearby. 

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So yeah a Taz is on the way but if you still want to discuss the matter I'm game.

Seems like many people talking about cats had experiences with the Bravo's "big brother" the Wave and not with the Bravo itself and I'm not sure that experience with one translates that well to the other. The beam on the Bravo is much narrower at 4.4 feet vs the beam on the Wave which is about 7 feet. I expect the Bravo would be much more "tippy". 

I love the roller-furling main on the Bravo and the Bravo was a strong contender in my mind early on. I missed eFrank's early endorsement and really just kind of forgot about the Bravo as the thread went on. 

The Taz won in the end due to lower cost, smaller and easier to store on the dock, light weight, 3x carry handles, stealth from the Corps, and cuteness. I expect that the Bravo would be more likely to attract Corps attention.

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The kid is ready for an extended boating season this year!

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So a very nice lady at US-One-Design has been under estimating shipping time. A call to the shipper predicts a September 23rd delivery date. This is a few days later than the nice lady originally indicated.

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20200917_230403.thumb.jpg.58faf14565c542e0b0bcc0a7b4369d46.jpg

Coyote Logistics says I will have the boat on the 23rd of Sept. in Arkansas at my address.

Coyote subcontracted Forward Air to ship the boat. This picture is from Forward Air's tracking system.

US-OneDesign is saying I will have the boat on the 21st based on this information.

I think it is possible that perhaps the boat will be in Tulsa (TUL) on the 21st and not delivered to my address in Arkansas until later.

What do you think? When is the boat scheduled to arrive (according to the information in this picture)? The 21st in Tulsa or the 21st to my address?

 

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First off, it is on the way, and that is all that matters.  Like getting a UPS package and tracking says one day, and it show up another.  The important thing is you will have for the following weekend to sail!   Be thankful, when I got my first Parker 505  (3194) from England in 1969, they had promised delivery in 6 months (around mid May).   The boat, in a wood crate (pre-container days), arrived at the docks in NYC in mid September, lost the whole summer of sailing.  So, a couple of days one way or the other is NOT a big deal.  Send pics when you get it, and enjoy your new toy.

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8 hours ago, lakedude said:

20200917_230403.thumb.jpg.58faf14565c542e0b0bcc0a7b4369d46.jpg

Coyote Logistics says I will have the boat on the 23rd of Sept. in Arkansas at my address.

Coyote subcontracted Forward Air to ship the boat. This picture is from Forward Air's tracking system.

US-OneDesign is saying I will have the boat on the 21st based on this information.

I think it is possible that perhaps the boat will be in Tulsa (TUL) on the 21st and not delivered to my address in Arkansas until later.

What do you think? When is the boat scheduled to arrive (according to the information in this picture)? The 21st in Tulsa or the 21st to my address?

 

If you hit refresh on the web browser, the boat arrives faster. In my experience, anyway.

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The nice lady at US1D said the boat was scheduled for pickup on Sunday the 13th and I already knew that she was most likely wrong because the store is closed on Sundays. She then said the boat was picked up on Monday the 14th which I believed. She indicated a 1 week or less shipping time and she thought they were being generous with the allowed time and indicated I'd likely have the boat sooner, under estimating the time.

In fact the boat was not picked up for delivery until Thursday Sept 17. I don't know what she was thinking. She was very nice and told me lots about the boat but I don't think she understood the shipping end of things so good.

We cheaped out on the shipping so I originally expected the boat would take a while to arrive but then the nice lady got my hopes up.

Glad it isn't going to be extra months like @koolkat505 's story. 

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Looks like the boat is finally in route! Went from ORF to CMH since yesterday.

 

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OMG!!!

We had a Zoom meeting with some family and one uncle has 2x sailboats that he no longer uses, a 1980 Laser and a Minifish. He was hoping to use them with kids who are no longer around so he was considering selling them. Great-grandma cuts in and tell the uncle to just give us the boats! Not sure what is going to happen there, we are in Arkansas and the boats are in Wisconsin. They say the boats have been well kept and are in great condition. We usually go up that way once a year but skipped this year due to CV19. 

The rubber suits saw some use this weekend on the powerboat (see pic).

Taz update: As I suspected there was no change in delivery status all weekend. I'm all but sure that the Taz will not arrive on Monday. Wednesday shall be glorious!

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The Taz is 1.5 hours away and is expected between 4:00 and 8:00 PM today. Looks like I was wrong. 

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We could take 2 vehicles to Wisconsin to pick up the Minifish and the Laser next Summer. Great Grand-Ma says they should be free but I'm not sure how much pull Grandma has. It would be nice to have 2 boats so Ian could go out on one and I could be out there with him. We certainly don't need 3 boats except to try and catch up to @martin 'hoff

Maybe we should offer a fair price but what would that be? 

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What do y'all think about the Aqua Cart to store the boat during the Winter? The "bunks" are self adjusting but only about 1.5"wide. They are turned 90 degrees from traditional bunks. 

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31 minutes ago, lakedude said:

We could take 2 vehicles to Wisconsin to pick up the Minifish and the Laser next Summer. Great Grand-Ma says they should be free but I'm not sure how much pull Grandma has. It would be nice to have 2 boats so Ian could go out on one and I could be out there with him. We certainly don't need 3 boats except to try and catch up to @martin 'hoff

Maybe we should offer a fair price but what would that be? 

You have friends. Your friends have kids. An un-sailed boat is a sad boat, invite friends until all boats are occupied and happy.

Everybody splashing in the water, even if it's 5 meters from the shore, is what memories are made of.

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The driver just called and the Taz is 23 miles out. I'm not excited or anything...

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Hit REFRESH!!!!

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So what to do about the quarter sized dent? I already signed the paper and the truck driver is long gone. There is no foam up there and you can see both sides of the dent thru the inspection port. The dent is pretty deep and may even have gone all the way thru the hull. 

How to check? Put it in water and see if it leaks? The owner's manual advises appling heat. Heat could be used to pop the dent out and make it smoother but it might make the thin spot worse. 

20200921_235246.jpg

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Dang, that sucks. I am sorry to see this. The kid looks excited, even so!

I've smoothed scratches on this stuff but not dimples and yeah it does not seem like a good idea for a thin spot. I'd get the best tech advice possible from the dealer, maybe go up to Topper. Seems like a QA problem.

One problem is that it's pretty tough to get things to stick to it.

FB- Doug

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If the boat is brand new, it's on the dealer to make things right. That kind of hull is nearly indestructible, and pretty thick so I'm 99% sure the dent is cosmetic damage. I would accept some spares or other goods in compensation, but keep the boat.

You can sail it as is. If you want to fill up the dent, some of the epoxies do stick to this material. There's an odd technique where - I think - you sand, then heat with a blowtorch, then glue. Heat changes the plastic slightly, and after that change the glue does stick.

So if/when you decide to fill up the dent, you can google for plastic kayak repair with g/flex. The kayaks are made of the same material - here's a funny video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WCS0qrD3MQY ). The patch won't look white so cosmetically it might look worse.

Just sail fast, noone will notice.

 

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7 hours ago, lakedude said:

So what to do about the quarter sized dent? I already signed the paper and the truck driver is long gone. There is no foam up there and you can see both sides of the dent thru the inspection port. The dent is pretty deep and may even have gone all the way thru the hull. 

How to check? Put it in water and see if it leaks? The owner's manual advises appling heat. Heat could be used to pop the dent out and make it smoother but it might make the thin spot worse. 

20200921_235246.jpg

It's brand new, don't sail and get the dealer to replace everything.  In 5 years, when that dent ether implodes from a weird log hit(not likely as it does not look structural from here) or looks like cosmetic crap because you have tried for 5 yrs to fix it and now it just looks like a stupid amoeba on the bow because of UV...  Personally I like it, it gives her personality.  Call her dimples or something.....  but I did not spend the $$ so...... 

Sucks, but send it back or make the decision to live with the consequences. 

 

Cool boat BTW..... 

 

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If that is made from the same materials as my Topper, you will be hard pressed to hurt that boat. Virtually indestructable. that said that pushes the envelope for acceptable condition of a brand new item. As a leftover or factory second probably acceptable. I doubt it affects the seaworthiness of the boat.

 

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8 hours ago, lakedude said:

 

How to check?

 

Put your mouth on the dent and blow, alcohol wipe first because 2020.

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or hair drier and soap...  

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The out-haul has me a bit confused. It might already be rigged from the factory. Not sure where that hook goes exactly. The way it is rigged you don't get much travel out of the out-haul, maybe 6 inches. Is that enough? You need a good deal more than that on a windsurfer because the out-haul bends and pre-loads the mast.

 

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5 minutes ago, lakedude said:

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Go sailing. The boat costs less than a macbook after being rotomoulded in the UK and shipped to Arkansas.  There are a lot of "should" statements that can be made. People can get indignant if they want to. However, it's a lot nicer to turn the other cheek.

DRC

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Go sailing.  You've got it documented and if it fails in the first sail, the dealer will probably cover you.  If it doesn't, you're probably going to be fine for the lifetime of use before you all "graduate" to another boat.  Congrats on taking ownership of the Taz!!!

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1 hour ago, lakedude said:

The out-haul has me a bit confused. It might already be rigged from the factory. Not sure where that hook goes exactly. The way it is rigged you don't get much travel out of the out-haul, maybe 6 inches. Is that enough? You need a good deal more than that on a windsurfer because the out-haul bends and pre-loads the mast.

 

The hook goes in the clew grommet. The travel is plenty. Tension outhaul before tensioning the vang.

Later you can explore adding a bungee take-up, etc. 

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1 hour ago, lakedude said:

20200922_110011.jpgWouldn't Marine-Tex fill this easily?

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1 hour ago, Bill5 said:
Wouldn't Marine-Tex fill this easily?

Dunno. Rotomolded boats use a specific plastic type that's known to be really tricky to bond to. Google "hdpe boat repair".

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1 hour ago, martin 'hoff said:
3 hours ago, Bill5 said:
Wouldn't Marine-Tex fill this easily?

Dunno. Rotomolded boats use a specific plastic type that's known to be really tricky to bond to. Google "hdpe boat repair".

Sure it would -fill- it.

The question is, would it stick?

We tried a bunch of different ways to put stickers on our Topaz Unos, and gave up. Very little will adhere to that stuff. You need exactly the right kind of miracle glop. G-10 is supposed to do so, never tried it.

FB- Doug

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You said you could get to the back of it, so maybe heating it up with a heat gun and then sandwiching between two small chunks of 2x4 for a few seconds might mostly reshape it.  Never done it, so pure conjecture in my part.  I'm sure the manufacturer will have an idea.

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1 hour ago, martin 'hoff said:

Dunno. Rotomolded boats use a specific plastic type that's known to be really tricky to bond to. Google "hdpe boat repair".

Well, they say it fixes "StarBoard®" ... the original marine-grade high density polyethylene".

Might be worth a shot. marinetex.com

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Sorry for the noob questions. 

What kind of knots are we using on for example the downhaul? Halyard Hitch?

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Thanks!

Where does the little rubber piece go? Looks like cover to the tiller extension?

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2 minutes ago, lakedude said:

Thanks!

Where does the little rubber piece go? Looks like cover to the tiller extension?

Hi, sorry, the Taz is a little different than the Topper, here are specific instructions to your boat:

https://www.lenam.net/wp-content/uploads/2018/11/topaz-taz-rigging-manual-v1-complete-01-feb-2018.pdf

Your outhaul arrangement is a little different than mine.

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Thanks for the link. The directions seem to leave a few things out. 

The mystery piece.

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This way or that way. There seems to be an extra piece to hold the main sheet.

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1 hour ago, lakedude said:

This way or that way. There seems to be an extra piece to hold the main sheet.

20200923_154625.jpg

20200923_155428.jpgBOTTOM PIC

 

 

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Just now got the boat in the water. The slope was a challenge. There was a nice 9mph breeze when I started this project, it is dead calm now.

The Taz is a lot tipper than my motorboat! 

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I used the suggested plastic skid method rather than the roller. 

Thanks @LFL for the help on that one! 

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It is going to be more like this except maybe upside down. The underside of the boat is curved in every direction so it is all wobbly when right side up on a flat surface.

Only problem now is that the jib cleats stick up so I can't just flip the boat over because all the weight would be on the smallish cleats. Gonna use some sort of boards to rest the boat on upside down.

Oh and somebody remind me that I used screws that were too long on one part and they are sticking out dangerously. 

20200923_200923.jpg

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Actually getting the boat up the 27 vertical  inches or so onto the dock seemed like a big worry. Thought I'd need a winch or ratchet straps or something but it was super easy. The boat just does not weigh all that much. 

To take the boat out I just yanked up on a rope tied to the front (to see what would happen) and the front of the boat easily came up out of the water far enough to grab the handle. I was able to sit on the dock and use my legs/feet to guide the boat until the front was up on the dock. Dragging it the up the rest of the way was easy as well. The smallness of the boat is paying off as far as that goes. 

The boat is a bit more tippy than I'm used to so that should be interesting. It is like being in a canoe!

Well I gotta run and finish up out on the dock.

Thanks everyone for all the help!

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3 hours ago, lakedude said:

Thanks for the link. The directions seem to leave a few things out. 

The mystery piece.

20200923_164015.jpg

That might be a boot for the base of the mainsheet block & cleat

FB- Doug

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@Steam Flyer You got it partner! I'm pretty sure there is no specific mention of this piece in the PDF but looking at the pic zoomed in the rubber part is surely as you say at the base of the mainsheet block and cleat. The brand name Ronstan is molded into the rubber part which matches the name on the pulley assembly.

Thanks Steam Flyer!

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Didn't get to go sailing today but the whole boat storage on the dock thing is mostly sorted out which is wonderful. Got some loose ends to tidy up but we are mostly ready to go. Launching from the dock should be much much easier than negotiating the rocky slope. I'm not attempting the slope again unless I get help. I doubt the neighbors want me on their land every time I go sailing but twice a year won't kill them.

The really great thing was that my son Ian was very excited to be involved, him and the cat both! 

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Interesting, the Taz was purchased from US One Design, however the paperwork came from East Coast Sailboats. Evidently those are related or the same somehow.

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I finally got around to calling US1D. They are filing a claim with the shipper. They have been great about the issue so far. I was expecting to hear that since I signed for it that it was going to be my problem but they are doing what is right. Glad I called, I was ready for a fight but none was needed.

This is the difference between me and my father BTW. I was nice but ready to fight. Dad would have just started an argument when one was not required. 

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A LOT of people would have started off with an argument.  Many would have found that just talking it over gets a much better, and quicker response, as well as leaving with a much better piece of mind.  I was a pharmacist for 40 plus years, you learned quickly to work things out nicely whenever possible.  However, it didn't always work.  Funny though, how many times the person came back or called to apologize for getting out of hand.   Accepting their apology, and telling them not to worry about went a long way in keeping a customer.  Not saying you should not stick up for yourself, but definitely starting off in a positive and pleasant manner will often work in your favor.

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Went out by myself to get the hang of things. Had a few hiccups but the ways of the water came back pretty quick.

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After the solo trip it was time to do what the boat was meant to do. The kid is short enough that the boom is not a worry for him, yet.

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6 hours ago, lakedude said:

I finally got around to calling US1D. They are filing a claim with the shipper. They have been great about the issue so far. I was expecting to hear that since I signed for it that it was going to be my problem but they are doing what is right. Glad I called, I was ready for a fight but none was needed.

This is the difference between me and my father BTW. I was nice but ready to fight. Dad would have just started an argument when one was not required. 

Ha! I thought that was just me. Actually no, I've met a lot of argumentative jerks but none that could out-argue me when it's either all the chips or I was really torqued up. But I've alos grown into more of an adult over the last five or six decades.......

 

6 hours ago, koolkat505 said:

A LOT of people would have started off with an argument.  Many would have found that just talking it over gets a much better, and quicker response, as well as leaving with a much better piece of mind.  I was a pharmacist for 40 plus years, you learned quickly to work things out nicely whenever possible.  However, it didn't always work.  Funny though, how many times the person came back or called to apologize for getting out of hand.   Accepting their apology, and telling them not to worry about went a long way in keeping a customer.  Not saying you should not stick up for yourself, but definitely starting off in a positive and pleasant manner will often work in your favor.

YES seeking agreement is a very powerful tool. Human beings are social organisms, approval is one of the main motivators. If all you are ever going to do is scream and cuss, as much fun as it is, it doesn't give anybody any incentive to let you have your way (other than to just get rid of you.... works some times). Often in the past, when working on some dispute or another, I made myself 'cue cards' to follow, writing down my points on 3x5 index cards including some polite phrases or compliments, and sticking to those in the most curteous & charming manner I can muster. I'd even prime myself mentally by telling myself that the other person was nice, probably had a good dog, kind to children, etc etc. This works wonders.

BTW LD that bottom photo is a real winner. Love it, hope you all are having a blast.

FB- Doug

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I just had a guitar come from Amazon Warehouse - it said 100% perfect - there was a little chip in it.

I called about it and they offered me 15% off the already discounted warehouse price (new, but returned). I took it in a NY minute.

It's a tough one with rotomold because if I saw that boat in the warehouse to PU I would refuse it. The scratch would not bother me as much as the dimple because you will put lots of scratches in molded boats dragging them on sand, rocks, gravel, driveways....but that dent looks like it would have take quite a bit of force to create.

Of course I am looking from afar. If something can be made to work and I feel I've gotten a value - all is well. At the same time if I paid the full price for something new I like it to be virgin to whatever possible extent. 

My guess is that repair of these things has improved - mechanically it would seem logical they could be repaired well - there probably hasn't been enough of a market to develop the techniques - but maybe by now they have. 

I have an old wind rider 10 that I sold last year - all rotomolded and over a decade old when I bought it. Lots of scratches but no leaks. You do have to store these boats in the proper fashion so that heat doesn't make them flatten where they might contact an improper trailer or storage setup. When mine did that I just read online how to turn the flat part up to the sun for a day and the thing would get back the curve! 

Get some 303 and spray that down once in a while and the plastic will thank you. 

https://www.amazon.com/30340CSR-Protectant-Plastic-Fiberglass-Leather/dp/B0004ELKC4/

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Yeah the dent worries me a lot more than the scratches. It really must have taken a whack. Looking at the pictures from today's sailing the dent is above the waterline so I'm not too worried anymore. 

I need some sort of cover, perhaps a bottom cover since it will be kept upside down. UV kills boats over time and I don't trust that spray to do as good of a job as a cover.

 

 

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