Bus Driver

State of Emergency

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yep ya foked.

 

“With regard to the forests, when trees fall down after a short period of time, about 18 months, they become very dry,” he said during a visit to California. 

“They become really like a matchstick… They just explode.”

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On 9/13/2020 at 3:01 PM, Bus Driver said:

What has the President done regarding the situation out west?

I haven't seen/read anything.

What situation?  Illegal immigration? Homelessness?  Rioting and looting? Wild fires? 

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What is the deal with the nuts purposefully starting wildfires out there?  What are those governors doing about it?

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15 hours ago, MR.CLEAN said:
15 hours ago, Cacoethesic Tom said:

Since those entities are doing so much better, the federal land should be sold, and not just in California.

under what statute?

Same one as usual.

15 hours ago, Remodel said:

What? Do the 1% need another handout? Do you really want to turn Yosemite into a land of condos and golf courses?

No, my statement was too broad. I was thinking of most property held by the Bureau of Land Management and some National Forests, not National Parks.

21 hours ago, badlatitude said:

why is the West burning on mostly federally managed land? 

...

The problem, my friend, is a government that passes the buck on forest management and diverts blame.Private industry (read logging) did a good job for more than a hundred years managing forests.

 

14 hours ago, badlatitude said:

Who said those entities are doing so much better?

You did.

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No the "only President Trump can protect us from the boogieman" narrative. 

image.thumb.png.a35719052d87041f4e81bc753d510531.png

 

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5 hours ago, Cacoethesic Tom said:

No, my statement was too broad. I was thinking of most property held by the Bureau of Land Management and some National Forests, not National Parks.

So you didn’t know what the fuck you were talking about Tom? That’s odd, you are usually so well informed by reason and google. 

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38 minutes ago, Mismoyled Jiblet. said:

So you didn’t know what the fuck you were talking about Tom? That’s odd, you are usually so well informed by reason and google. 

don't forget the Hoover Institute!

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14 hours ago, bhyde said:

Sorry, which or the 300+ fires currently burning in CA/OR/WA were set by arsonist?

That lightening storm way created by an evil-Dem super genius in her Super secret lab in the basement of the pizza parlor to make The Donald look bad. Yes, it was Hillary!

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9 hours ago, Rok Dog said:

What is the deal with the nuts purposefully starting wildfires out there?  What are those governors doing about it?

It’s a lie.

Maybe if you fuckers would get off your couch once in awhile and drive through one of these forests you’d get a sense of the scale.

”loggers took care of it”

well, duh, they clearcut the virgin stands leaving nothing behind. Can’t have fire if it’s just rocks.

one could say that was the original sin. Those virgin stands were fire-resistant because that’s how they grew. Widely spaced, regular fire to keep the understory thin.

 

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^^^ Exactly correct. Compare Pennsylvania, Ohio and Indiana. My logger ancestors made big bucks clearcutting those states. Hard to believe that those states were endless forests of huge old trees. They sold every last tree. Just like the timber industry does out west. It never really grows back. That management idea they hype is 98% bullshit. No forests means no forest fires. Duh.

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3 hours ago, MR.CLEAN said:

Hint: It'll start with FLPMA or USC§

You're the one who cares, not me, so go look it up. Same one as usual is a good enough answer for me. They can do it. They should do it. If you want to know statute numbers, that won't change the fact that they can and should do it, but by all means go find them yourself.

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4 hours ago, El Boracho said:

^^^ Exactly correct. Compare Pennsylvania, Ohio and Indiana. My logger ancestors made big bucks clearcutting those states. Hard to believe that those states were endless forests of huge old trees. They sold every last tree. Just like the timber industry does out west. It never really grows back. That management idea they hype is 98% bullshit. No forests means no forest fires. Duh.

Where I grew up, Minnesota had pine/fir forests to rival the Pacific NW.

now it has birch plantations for the paper companies

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4 hours ago, El Boracho said:

^^^ Exactly correct. Compare Pennsylvania, Ohio and Indiana. My logger ancestors made big bucks clearcutting those states. Hard to believe that those states were endless forests of huge old trees. They sold every last tree. Just like the timber industry does out west. It never really grows back. That management idea they hype is 98% bullshit. No forests means no forest fires. Duh.

One of the New Hampshire colonists larger grievances with the Crown was the forbidding of logging white pine >12”. We’ve been cutting our way west ever since.

 

its easy to throw a mantrum and say “sell it” it’s harder to find people who’d want to buy much of it.

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1 hour ago, Raz'r said:

Where I grew up, Minnesota had pine/fir forests to rival the Pacific NW.

now it has birch plantations for the paper companies

Just wait, we are playing catch up one tree at a time....

The eastern US was a managed forest in the true sense, by the indigenous people.  They treated the forests as a producer of fruits, nuts and animal habitat, and regularly burned off brush.  The mono-crop idea of an industrial forest is the same mentality that turned Scotland into the Moors, Caribbean islands into sugar waste land and southern and midwestern states into scrubland forests and industrial agriculture. 

It has come to many people's attention that colonizing Europeans have been a curse on the globe.  

Not that the indigenous folks didn't have a few flaws of their own, such as tribal warfare, slavery and the like, but as Christopher Columbus said on making landfall:  "Hold my beer and watch this!"

 

Meanwhile, our mono-cropped forests and our drought-stricken brushlands filled with invasive species (tumbleweed, eucalyptus, creosote bush, etc.)are burning.  

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2 hours ago, Left Shift said:

Meanwhile, our mono-cropped forests and our drought-stricken brushlands filled with invasive species (tumbleweed, eucalyptus, creosote bush, etc.)are burning.  

WRT the eucalypts, that's not a bug, that's a feature...

FKT

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Just now, Mismoyled Jiblet. said:

North American eucalypt transplants dont behave the same.

In what way? I find it hard to believe they burn worse in the USA than they do right here. My neighbours & I burn off the understorey every year (patchy cool burn) to reduce the chances of a bad fire getting going. Preserves wildlife habitat as well.

Industrial forestry management sucks. Totally ignoring management and leaving it to occasional (or not so occasional) wildfires sucks too. Unfortunately a sensible approach is capital & labour intensive plus gets the deep Greens screaming about CO2 and smoke so cool burns aren't sufficient in frequency & area. As we see both here and in your country.

FKT

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6 minutes ago, Fah Kiew Tu said:

In what way? I find it hard to believe they burn worse in the USA than they do right here. My neighbours & I burn off the understorey every year (patchy cool burn) to reduce the chances of a bad fire getting going.

The wood is garbage fast growing crap, a weed. The trees were planted near everything and shed shit near everything.

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Just now, Mismoyled Jiblet. said:

The wood is garbage fast growing crap, a weed. The trees were planted near everything and shed shit near everything.

Interesting. The eucalypts here - depending on species of course - are some of the hardest, toughest and highest stress grade timbers available. It seems Australia was blessed with some really wonderful hardwoods but got short-changed on softwoods (some decent ones).

Wonder what species you got that cause the problems. Though all of them burn really, really well - lots of volatiles in the leaves. They go up like bombs in a crown fire.

FKT

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11 minutes ago, Fah Kiew Tu said:

Wonder what species you got that cause the problems. Though all of them burn really, really well - lots of volatiles in the leaves. They go up like bombs in a crown fire.

Blue Gum, E. Globalus. 

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1 hour ago, Mismoyled Jiblet. said:

North American eucalypt transplants dont behave the same.

Eucalyptus was imported from OZ in early 1900s and planted in California to harvest for railroad ties.  The local soil and climate made for crappy railroad ties prone to splitting and warping, but happy, fast-burning high-volatile eucalyptus trees.  A bane of the California ecology ever since. 

Much of the West Coast vegetation is like that.  Planted by unthinking and/or greedy colonists.  Well, much like vegetation all over the Americas.

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1 hour ago, Left Shift said:

Eucalyptus was imported from OZ in early 1900s and planted in California to harvest for railroad ties.  The local soil and climate made for crappy railroad ties prone to splitting and warping, but happy, fast-burning high-volatile eucalyptus trees.  A bane of the California ecology ever since. 

Much of the West Coast vegetation is like that.  Planted by unthinking and/or greedy colonists.  Well, much like vegetation all over the Americas.

We're pretty good except for cutting down old growth and planting broom. Fuckers.

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5 hours ago, Mismoyled Jiblet. said:

Blue Gum, E. Globalus. 

Hmmm - I have those. Quite good structural properties, strong and dense woods highly rot and termite resistant. I had to take one out, it was over 1m in diameter at the base. Paid someone to take it down, too big for me. I have quite a lot of air dried timber from others I cut down when building my workshop. The timber does tend to shrink badly and warp if not stacked & dried properly but it's great for support beams and the like.

Makes great firewood too....

FKT

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7 hours ago, Fah Kiew Tu said:

Unfortunately a sensible approach is capital & labour intensive plus gets the deep Greens screaming about CO2 and smoke so cool burns aren't sufficient in frequency & area.

It's also extremely lawyer-intensive. After you assemble your 5,000 page plan, it gets blocked by a lawsuit.

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10 hours ago, Mismoyled Jiblet. said:

its easy to throw a mantrum and say “sell it” it’s harder to find people who’d want to buy much of it.

I think lots of enviro groups like the Nature Conservancy would buy it at some price. And probably do a better job managing it than the feds.

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5 hours ago, Cacoethesic Tom said:

I think lots of enviro groups like the Nature Conservancy would buy it at some price. And probably do a better job managing it than the feds.

:lol:

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6 hours ago, Cacoethesic Tom said:

I think lots of enviro groups like the Nature Conservancy would buy it at some price. And probably do a better job managing it than the feds.

Have you talked to @nacradriver?

he’s whining that they won’t let him hike on the trails.

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Has he looked at a map? No. He’s just Tomballs spewing stupid shit cuz he’s Tomballs. When the nature conservancy bans dumb trash shooting shit on their land he’ll be outraged, cuz that’s who he is.

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20 hours ago, Cacoethesic Tom said:

You're the one who cares, not me, so go look it up. Same one as usual is a good enough answer for me. They can do it. They should do it. If you want to know statute numbers, that won't change the fact that they can and should do it, but by all means go find them yourself.

figures you are not interested in what they are required to undertake in order to sell land, just that they SHUD DO IT.  Laws are for others.  Remember that a FAQ is not a law though, nor a statute, nor a regulation.  It is for those who can't or won't read the actual rules.  You know, those people.

 

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14 hours ago, Left Shift said:

Eucalyptus was imported from OZ in early 1900s and planted in California to harvest for railroad ties.  The local soil and climate made for crappy railroad ties prone to splitting and warping, but happy, fast-burning high-volatile eucalyptus trees.  A bane of the California ecology ever since. 

Much of the West Coast vegetation is like that.  Planted by unthinking and/or greedy colonists.  Well, much like vegetation all over the Americas.

Damned colonists. And then, to top it off, the missionaries were so worried about them damned Injuns burning shit they imposed heavy penalties (including death) on starting the fires they'd been starting for millenia. And then after that the timber industry lobbied hard for full fire suppression to protect "their" resource. But lets blame environmentalists!

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On 9/16/2020 at 12:59 PM, DustyDreamer said:

Damned colonists. And then, to top it off, the missionaries were so worried about them damned Injuns burning shit they imposed heavy penalties (including death) on starting the fires they'd been starting for millenia. And then after that the timber industry lobbied hard for full fire suppression to protect "their" resource. But lets blame environmentalists!

Indigenous Pyro's
 

Quote

 

In California, wildfires have burned more than 3.2 million acres—an area larger than the state of Connecticut—since January. Since August 15, the state's fires have killed at least 24 people and destroyed more than 4,200 structures. The amount of the state's forestland that has burned this year is has been described as "unprecedented" and "record-breaking."

...

The latest area burned may not be as unprecedented on a longer time scale. For example, a 2007 study in Forest Ecology and Management suggests that the area in California burned by Native Americans to manage landscapes, as well as those sparked by lightning before the era of European settlement and active fire suppression, may have fallen between 4.5 and 12 million acres annually. "The idea that US wildfire area of approximately two million hectares (about 5 million acres) annually is extreme is certainly a 20th or 21st century perspective," wrote the researchers. "Skies were likely smoky much of the summer and fall in California during the prehistoric period."

...

 

 

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