VeloceSailing

Dimension Polyant Aramid Sport

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There are a couple of Corsair trimarans at our club that have sails made from this fabric.  Shape looks good, no problems that I'm aware of.  But your question is a bit vague...  What kind of boat do you want to use it on?

 

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2 minutes ago, gbkersey said:

There are a couple of Corsair trimarans at our club that have sails made from this fabric.  Shape looks good, no problems that I'm aware of.  But your question is a bit vague...  What kind of boat do you want to use it on?

I sail a Sun Fasy 32i, a displacement monohull just over 31ft.

I will switch from foil and furler to hanks for shorthanded racing and I need new headsails. My sailmaker suggested this, in 2 different weights, as it stands better flogging and rougher handling, which comes with single and doublehanding. It comes at 5.9 and 6.6oz, so slightly heavier than other options, but it seems promising...on paper.

I wonder if anyone can confirm it or had any problems with creep, elongation, and so on.

 

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Intro'd as a budget alternative to GPL, so there's the fact it's less expensive than GPL going for it.  But it's also not nearly as strong or light a product...  GPL's been around for many years, why mess with success?

We had GPL main and genoa on a previous boat, after four years of limited shorthanded racing use the cloth was still in excellent condition.  I've seen heavily used GPL that age that didn't look much worse.  On the other hand, I've seen a two year old Aramid Sport genoa off a J/35 that I wasn't particularly impressed with the shape or wear of the cloth.

Just my opinion...

Cheers!

 

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Sounds like a little confusion on this thread - 

The original style - GPL & GPL Lite Skin - Technora x/y scrim with Carbon warp inserts

Carbon Sport - This style uses a Black Polyester x/y scrim with Carbon warp inserts.  Yes more economical than GPL and more suitable for inshore racing.

* the above 2 styles are available in a film/film version or with Lite Skin exterior (covering the film)

Aramid Sport is an all Aramid product (no carbon fiber) with Lite Skin on both sides

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My sailmaker says that the price of Aramid has gone up so much to make it not much cheaper than carbon and not really worth using any more. At least that was his argument for getting our class to allow carbon jibs.

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4 hours ago, TDalbora said:

Sounds like a little confusion on this thread - 

The original style - GPL & GPL Lite Skin - Technora x/y scrim with Carbon warp inserts

Carbon Sport - This style uses a Black Polyester x/y scrim with Carbon warp inserts.  Yes more economical than GPL and more suitable for inshore racing.

* the above 2 styles are available in a film/film version or with Lite Skin exterior (covering the film)

Aramid Sport is an all Aramid product (no carbon fiber) with Lite Skin on both sides

Oopsy, Tom's right, I was thinking Carbon Sport not Aramid Sport.  My bad...

Cheers!

 

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Yeah, it is a bit confusing as Aramid Sport is a relatively new product. The usual downside with aramid fibers is that they degrade very fast with UV exposition. However by being enclosed in Light Skin layers they should be protected.

My sailmaker says that it should be a better option for shorthanded racing, especially off-shore where it may be subject to rough handling, flogging and so on. 

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There's actually a fair bit of UV protection in the laminate including the outside layer of the Lite Skin. The inserts tend to be more forgiving with flex and folding that the older scrim based styles we made 15-20 years ago.  This is the same for the carbon inserts .. very durable.  You get a little more stretch in the primary, but overall a more durable product.  

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16 hours ago, TDalbora said:

Sounds like a little confusion on this thread - 

The original style - GPL & GPL Lite Skin - Technora x/y scrim with Carbon warp inserts

Carbon Sport - This style uses a Black Polyester x/y scrim with Carbon warp inserts.  Yes more economical than GPL and more suitable for inshore racing.

* the above 2 styles are available in a film/film version or with Lite Skin exterior (covering the film)

Aramid Sport has a polyester base and Aramid inserts (no carbon fiber) with Lite Skin on both sides

 

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On 9/14/2020 at 12:39 PM, VeloceSailing said:

Hi there,

anyone who has tried out Dimension Polyant's relatively new fabric "Aramid Sport"?

https://www.dimension-polyant.com/portfolio/aramid-sport/?lang=en

 

Opinions?

 

Whats the price difference to Carbon Sport, GPL, or a proper membrane?  Stepping over dollars to save pennies most likely.

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I can't comment on the membrane prices, but GPL is the most expensive.  Carbon Sport & Aramid Sport are about the same prices - maybe about 35% less than the GPL styles.  Construction costs on all three fabrics would be about the same.

When Carbon Sport was developed, we were thinking that there were some applications where the low stretch of carbon was great, but the GPL styles were overkill.  I have a friend with a Laser 28 - all inshore racing.  GPL would make really fine sails, but Carbon Sport is also up to the task with some savings.  Now a 40' offshore boat that tends to reef & do more blue water sailing might be a better candidate for GPL.

 

 

 

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4 hours ago, Bad Andy said:

Whats the price difference to Carbon Sport, GPL, or a proper membrane?  Stepping over dollars to save pennies most likely.

From my recent experience, GPL is about the same price as a membrane string sail, maybe a hair less but close enough that most sailmakers will push you to a membrane string sail.  CArbon sport is about 20% less than GPL and Aramid sport was actually more than carbon sport.  Most likely due to volume pricing on CS material vs special run of the Aramid sport.  There are lots of variables that factor into sail prices but these examples are from the same sailmaker so there is a somewhat apples to apples comparison.  

 

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5 hours ago, Bad Andy said:

Whats the price difference to Carbon Sport, GPL, or a proper membrane?  Stepping over dollars to save pennies most likely.

I did not request an offer for membrane, however I happened to see some pricing.

A mainsail in Aramid Sport is about 70% of the same mainsail in membrane with the same sailmaker. As a main has more labor into it, I assume that a headsail would have a slightly higher price difference. No idea about GPL, however I was discouraged by the sailmaker to consider Carbon Sport, in spite of a price just a tad higher

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Remember that Aramid has FOUR problems not just one:

1) UV sensitivity, as already mentioned.

2) Absorbs water aggressively. This is why Kevlar hulls were such a horribly bad idea.

3) Aramid shrinks after being under load. This damages the shape and structure (attachment of filaments to skins). GPL sails last forever perhaps due to this giant advantage of carbon over aramid.

4) Aramid is much heavier sail, compared to carbon. Much heavier.

So I went with GPL lite skin. Price difference was insignificant in the grand scheme of things, much lighter and therefore easier to handle sails, perfect shape, and they last much longer, based on actual experience and not brochure claims.

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52 minutes ago, VeloceSailing said:

I did not request an offer for membrane, however I happened to see some pricing.

A mainsail in Aramid Sport is about 70% of the same mainsail in membrane with the same sailmaker. As a main has more labor into it, I assume that a headsail would have a slightly higher price difference. No idea about GPL, however I was discouraged by the sailmaker to consider Carbon Sport, in spite of a price just a tad higher

Interesting, unless you plan to abuse your sails the carbon will be better.  I'd usually only go with an Aramid sail for headsails that are going to get abused.  Otherwise the price difference is so small to Carbon that its a no brainier.  That being said as long as they have decent membranes they're always going to be a far better sail in the long run if made right.

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1 hour ago, T sailor said:

From my recent experience, GPL is about the same price as a membrane string sail, maybe a hair less but close enough that most sailmakers will push you to a membrane string sail.  CArbon sport is about 20% less than GPL and Aramid sport was actually more than carbon sport.  Most likely due to volume pricing on CS material vs special run of the Aramid sport.  There are lots of variables that factor into sail prices but these examples are from the same sailmaker so there is a somewhat apples to apples comparison.  

 

That's my experience as well.  GPL can make a great sail but a membrane made right will be better any day of the week.  There is a large step up from Carbon Sport to GPL or membrane that is usually worth it unless you are at the edge of your budget.

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I have an aramid sport lite skin heavy Genoa on my 36ft boat.
The material is good but is heavy compare to film option.
For heavy sails and offshore sailing is good, when the extra weight is not a real issue.

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36 minutes ago, storosis said:

I have an aramid sport lite skin heavy Genoa on my 36ft boat.
The material is good but is heavy compare to film option.
For heavy sails and offshore sailing is good, when the extra weight is not a real issue.

Thanks!

 

If I take the largest genoa on my 32 footer displacing over 4.2 tons, the area is about 29 square meters.

The lightest Aramid Sport, called AS06 weighs 5.9 sm-oz, which is about 253,7 gr/sqm > about 7.34 kg

A suitable GPL GraphX for that area and deplacement is the GPL05 at about 4,4 sm-oz, or 75% of AS06, for a total sailcloth of 5.06 kg

The appropriate Carbon Sport cloth is CS10 at 5.3 sm-oz means sailcloth for 6.59 kg.

 

The latter was really discourage, it is only marginally lighter and slightly more expensive than Aramid Sport, so that is excluded.

GPL looks like a great option, but considering that clew, hanks, luffrope, seams weigh the same on all options (and are not in the calculation above) the 2.28 kg extra on the aramid sport may be worth in durability (I race solo/shorthanded, inshore/offshore), provided form stability is the same and the "light skin" keeps water away from the aramid fibers. Anyone who noticed creep, elongation or other such behaviors?

Another aspect is that, given the price I have on hand and being aramid sport at 30% lower price than GPL GraphX, those 2.28 kg cost 830 USD each :blink: 

 

 

 

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I am

22 hours ago, VeloceSailing said:

Thanks!

 

If I take the largest genoa on my 32 footer displacing over 4.2 tons, the area is about 29 square meters.

The lightest Aramid Sport, called AS06 weighs 5.9 sm-oz, which is about 253,7 gr/sqm > about 7.34 kg

A suitable GPL GraphX for that area and deplacement is the GPL05 at about 4,4 sm-oz, or 75% of AS06, for a total sailcloth of 5.06 kg

The appropriate Carbon Sport cloth is CS10 at 5.3 sm-oz means sailcloth for 6.59 kg.

 

The latter was really discourage, it is only marginally lighter and slightly more expensive than Aramid Sport, so that is excluded.

GPL looks like a great option, but considering that clew, hanks, luffrope, seams weigh the same on all options (and are not in the calculation above) the 2.28 kg extra on the aramid sport may be worth in durability (I race solo/shorthanded, inshore/offshore), provided form stability is the same and the "light skin" keeps water away from the aramid fibers. Anyone who noticed creep, elongation or other such behaviors?

Another aspect is that, given the price I have on hand and being aramid sport at 30% lower price than GPL GraphX, those 2.28 kg cost 830 USD each :blink: 

 

 

 

I am great fun of DP FLEX sailcloth there is a new version of it (they call it FLEX Sport)  which is worth to check it
It's a technora cross cut material which suits best boats up to 35ft.
There is no stitching between panels just clue giving a very smooth sail.
Finaly cost less because needs less labor and less cloth for the same size of sail compare to a radial.
Its not a string sail but its the next best think, assuming that will cost significantly less than the Aramid Sport

dp_Produktflyer_Flex_Sport_E_Web_rz.pdf

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