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Tomfl

chain and rope lock

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Ran across this and not sure if this is even the right name.

Currently I am using heavy eye hook in the middle of a bridle to attach the bridle to my anchor chain; but it came with the boat when I bought it in 2012 and is getting long in the tooth.

This seems to be an alternative option but I am wondering if anyone has used it or something like it, suppose to be for 6-8mm chain.  I am not sure about the source, never seen them before.

 

chain stop.jpg

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It's hard to see a big difference between the cast pieces like that and a chain hook  SS or Galv.  I finally found a SS hook the right size for our chain and setup as a snubber.  About a week later we met some friends who told us their SS snubber hook almost disolved their chain after a couple months in Tanzania.  If it's always dry probably ok but if submerged not sure a soft shackle might be better.  I don't like a captive attachment for a snubber so tend to go back to the simple chain hook.  The steal one was fine just a rust stain machine so for now a SS one.

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I used a soft shackle for years. Lasted fine with minimal chafing. Since we spent 95% of our days at anchor, I'd replace it every year or so.

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so is this just tying off the chain so its not chain on the windlass taking the load??

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1 hour ago, crankcall said:

so is this just tying off the chain so its not chain on the windlass taking the load??

Sorta.  I tend to wrap the chain around the Sampson post so the windlass is not taking the lad and then have a line around the Sampson post with an eye hook on the chain on the deck.  And yes I do wear suspenders with my belt.

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2 hours ago, crankcall said:

so is this just tying off the chain so its not chain on the windlass taking the load??

If you have a all chain anchor road a snubber setup gives some stretch where it meets the boat.  We use a small 5/8 3 strand nylon snubber and it will take up 5-8 feet of stretch in a blow.  It is on the Samson post or cast cleat  on the windlass.  The hook above is a method of attaching to the chain rode.  As Zonker said I think the soft shackle is a pretty good solution.  If you have a chain to anchor rode then it's not needed as the line rode will take the surge. Myself I don't like it captive but I can't make a solid argument against.

 

 

 

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A snubber drastically reduces the load on the anchoring system. We used a bridle (catamaran) of 10mm/ 3/8 climbing rope x 25'. Super stretchy. I think PS did a test of various sized snubber this year. Takeaway was long & skinny >> short & thick

 

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Thanks , makes sense. Being in Lake Ontario anchoring options are limited to actually anchor and I'm learning alot about who does what.  Initial impressions are in cruising circles this can take an entire afternoon and a case of lager to discuss

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1 hour ago, Zonker said:

https://www.practical-sailor.com/sails-rigging-deckgear/what-is-ideal-snubber-size

Long and skinny (and stretchy) vs short and fat. Note that these are actual loads measured on the same boat, same conditions. 

So:  use a snubber, and use a long stretchy one. It doesn't have to be dynamic climbing rope, but it sure helps.

image.png.cf2c4f50442b73194f2831d206fd571c.png

That's pretty interesting, usually go as long as I can but sometimes it's crowded and you get what you get.  Have to show my friend, he was just talking about cat bridles and only wanting the bridle to be beam width per length to not stress the hulls.  This seems to negate that.

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Maybe I should have mentioned it earlier but the setup I use can include snubbers if I think they are justified.  The bridle I use is maybe a little over 30 feet with the hook in the middle.  The bitter ends are secured on cleats on each bow of my cat which has a beam of 19'5".  I have tape about four feet from both the bitter ends and put snubbers on each side.  The thing is I frequently adjust one side of the bridle or the other to get the bows to better face directly into the wind.  Often I basically day sail when I cruise; like 50-100 miles from sun up till enough before sundown to feel comfortable about how I anchored. If the weather is expected to be good I sometimes leave off the snubbers.  On the other hand if I expect to be anchored in the same place for a while or expect bad weather I will install the snubbers.  

As an aside I am a big fan of seaworthylass and have followed her advice about making soft shackles.  Guess it is time to break out the fids and tape measure.  Pix for street cred.  

blythespiritdt.jpg

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Our snubbers were each about 25' leg length. Hull center-to-center distance was 17'.  Actually I used a 50' single length of climbing rope with a s.s. thimble seized in the middle of the rope to form 2 legs. Thus no knots on the ends of the climbing rope.

I really like the soft shackle because it didn't fall off the chain. Having a cat where you can anchor in 2m of water, the chain hook would sit on the bottom with no load if it wasn't windy and would often just fall off...

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snubber-1.thumb.JPG.94248c0857652b69c4624ffb15d52da6.JPG

Snubber construction.  Thimble held in place with inner lashing of stitched whipping twine. Then nylon or polyester cord to protect the stitching from chafe.  Later the chain hook was replaced with the soft shackle.

 

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12 hours ago, Zonker said:

https://www.practical-sailor.com/sails-rigging-deckgear/what-is-ideal-snubber-size

Long and skinny (and stretchy) vs short and fat. Note that these are actual loads measured on the same boat, same conditions. 

So:  use a snubber, and use a long stretchy one. It doesn't have to be dynamic climbing rope, but it sure helps.

image.png.cf2c4f50442b73194f2831d206fd571c.png

Shame that doesn't say what the 3 stand is. A bit of nylon is going to be better than polyester.

I've heard of chain good damaging chain, but I've never seen it myself.

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I have used a 30 foot piece of 3 strand nylon, 1/2 inch diameter tied to the chain with a simple rolling hitch for a 41 ft. boat.   Worked very well. Easy. I like the idea of a soft shackle as well. I have had bad luck with a fancy and expensive wichard chain hook with the captive pin bending the first time I used it.

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You can go and read the original article. I'm sure the 3 strand was nylon though.

30' good but skinnier better :) You can always rig 1 size larger in parallel, though slack, if you are worried about it breaking in a big blow.

Typically the stories I read about of snubbers failing are all short ones, no matter what diameter.

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NOOBIE QUESTION ALERT.

I thought a snubber was a fairly short length of rubber like stuff that you put on the bridle to absorb shock.  This is a pix I stole off the internet showing what I call snubbers that I use.  Maybe I am wrong about what a snubber is, but West Marine and Amazon call them snubbers.  Feel free to correct me.
 

snubber.jpg

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1 hour ago, Tomfl said:

NOOBIE QUESTION ALERT.

I thought a snubber was a fairly short length of rubber like stuff that you put on the bridle to absorb shock.  This is a pix I stole off the internet showing what I call snubbers that I use.  Maybe I am wrong about what a snubber is, but West Marine and Amazon call them snubbers.  Feel free to correct me.
 

snubber.jpg

Your not going to believe this, but in some places they are both called snubbers.  Mr Cleans anchor  chain snubber sometimes  called a stopper.   takes the strain off the windlass 

 

 

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As Zonker showed in the PS article it's not a exact science and very much boat dependant.  The idea of dock line snubber things is more or less the same although I think they are a gimic.  Different boats ride considerably different under load so the snubber bridle setup is a evolution to get the best ride.  One line two lines etc. 

The biggest take away for me is the load reduction they were able to nail down that is huge.  I will definitely reevaluate our setup.  I have always leaned on the smaller size for the snubber but I think I may even take it down a notch.

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3 hours ago, Cristoforo said:

Your not going to believe this, but in some places they are both called snubbers.  Mr Cleans anchor  chain snubber sometimes  called a stopper.   takes the strain off the windlass 

 

 

I have always subscribed to 'their country, their rules'.  Thing is what you are calling "Mr Cleans anchor  chain snubber sometimes  called a stopper." is what I have always called a bridle, which I thought was used to take the strain off the windlass.  Is there some difference between Mr Cleans anchor  chain snubber sometimes  called a stopper and a bridle I am missing.

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47 minutes ago, Tomfl said:

I have always subscribed to 'their country, their rules'.  Thing is what you are calling "Mr Cleans anchor  chain snubber sometimes  called a stopper." is what I have always called a bridle, which I thought was used to take the strain off the windlass.  Is there some difference between Mr Cleans anchor  chain snubber sometimes  called a stopper and a bridle I am missing.

I don’t think so. We set one tonight and the owner said ‘don’t forget to put the anchor thing on’

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1 hour ago, Tomfl said:

I have always subscribed to 'their country, their rules'.  Thing is what you are calling "Mr Cleans anchor  chain snubber sometimes  called a stopper." is what I have always called a bridle, which I thought was used to take the strain off the windlass.  Is there some difference between Mr Cleans anchor  chain snubber sometimes  called a stopper and a bridle I am missing.

I always thought:

a stopper is piece of hardware fixed to the deck that grabs the chain to take the load off the windlass

a snubber is a length of stretchy line (or one of those rubber dong thingies) cleated to the deck and hooked or tied to the chain with some chain slack behind it to provide compliance under shock loading

a bridle is two lengths of stretchy line (possibly a loop) attached to cleats on both sides of a monohull's bow or the outermost bows of a multihull that acts both as a snubber and to keep the boat's bow from hunting.

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16 hours ago, IStream said:

I always thought:

a stopper is piece of hardware fixed to the deck that grabs the chain to take the load off the windlass

a snubber is a length of stretchy line (or one of those rubber dong thingies) cleated to the deck and hooked or tied to the chain with some chain slack behind it to provide compliance under shock loading

a bridle is two lengths of stretchy line (possibly a loop) attached to cleats on both sides of a monohull's bow or the outermost bows of a multihull that acts both as a snubber and to keep the boat's bow from hunting.

When I am on a ball I use two lines each attached to the cleat on a bow, run through the eye splice on the ball and then attached to the cleat on the other bow.  I also attach a line to the Sampson post run through the eye cleat on the ball and attach the other end to the Sampson post; with slack so the lines attached to the cleats on the bows take the load. 

On the other hand at anchor I use one line with an eye hook in the middle attached to the chain with the bitter ends cleated off on each bow.  Not sure how I could attach two lines to the anchor chain without two eye hooks or something like a soft shackle big enough to let the lines pass through.  Here is a pix of my foredeck when I was airing out stuff.  In the pink circles you can see what I call the stopper attached to the chain and Sampson post and the two lines going through the eyesplice of the mooring ball.

When/if I start using a soft shackle instead of an eye hook I will likely use two lines like I do when I am on a ball.

blythespiritforedecke.jpg

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