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Blue Crab

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A Trumpeteer that I can still talk to asked me in the heat of the moment, well who can we believe? I can tell him my sources but I'd like someone to come up with a better answer. Help wanted.

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Aside from the NY TImes and WA Post, how about the BBC?   Not part of US politics but perhaps a liberal bias, but do cover US and Canadian news.

Here are how these outlets cover Trump and Biden's visit to California

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-54144651

Al Jazeera. Yeah it's based in Qatar but doesn't mean it doesn't do serious journalism

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2020/09/biden-trump-jockey-climate-wildfires-overtake-campaigns-200914200817473.html

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I've only been able to convince trumpaloons that he is lying about covid, nothing else.  And the only thing that works for that is to show them the number of deaths in other countries versus here.  The vast majority of them have never left the US, so when you show them multiple overseas headlines about how fucked the USA is, and you show them the death numbers, there really is no response.   Everything else can be bullshitted away, at least until you lose a relative or two.  22% of the deaths, 4.6% of the population.  Repeat.

 

 

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44 minutes ago, Blue Crab said:

A Trumpeteer that I can still talk to asked me in the heat of the moment, well who can we believe? I can tell him my sources but I'd like someone to come up with a better answer. Help wanted.

Really depends on the topic.  At very least, I'd suggest he expand his window and read or watch at least one source he considers 'not too bad' to start to get exposed to the idea there MIGHT be more to the story than he may otherwise be lead to believe.

The more important question is whether he really cares to learn more or if he's just running smack to get his blood pumping.

If it's the former, just give him your sources.  YOU believe they're true and he's YOUR friend!  You want him to see the truth?  Right?

If its the later, it doesn't matter - so give him your sources :)   Saves time and then you can argue about sources!

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55 minutes ago, Blue Crab said:

A Trumpeteer that I can still talk to asked me in the heat of the moment, well who can we believe? I can tell him my sources but I'd like someone to come up with a better answer. Help wanted.

Reuters

AP

Google or Yahoo news and go down the list of headlines, compare what the NY Post or Fox or OAN says about the same topic vs almost any other media.

Depends on the subject too. One thing I've found, people who want to insist that mankind cannot possibly have any effect on the climate don't have a clue what mankind is doing, and on what scale. So I simply ask them how much oil & coal we're burning per day. If they will be bothered to look, it usually starts some gears turning.

- DSK

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3 minutes ago, Steam Flyer said:

Reuters

AP

Google or Yahoo news and go down the list of headlines, compare what the NY Post or Fox or OAN says about the same topic vs almost any other media.

Depends on the subject too. One thing I've found, people who want to insist that mankind cannot possibly have any effect on the climate don't have a clue what mankind is doing, and on what scale. So I simply ask them how much oil & coal we're burning per day. If they will be bothered to look, it usually starts some gears turning.

- DSK

Well we do know that green energy is pissing in the wind.., get over it and start building the cleanest energy on the face of the earth, nuclear, like everyone else! China has built 70 plus since 3 Mile Island , which was just an incident 

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1 hour ago, Blue Crab said:

A Trumpeteer that I can still talk to asked me in the heat of the moment, well who can we believe? I can tell him my sources but I'd like someone to come up with a better answer. Help wanted.

It's understandable having doubts about which politicians we can believe.  Tell him on issues regarding medicine, believe majority of doctors.  On issues regarding science, believe the majority scientists.  On the economy, believe the majority of economists.  Etc, etc. 

We can't put our faith in politicians.  They only have to be good at getting more votes than their opponent.  And that takes a lot of bullshit.

We have to rely on the experts.  Like we should have been doing all along.

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8 minutes ago, Jules said:

It's understandable having doubts about which politicians we can believe.  Tell him on issues regarding medicine, believe majority of doctors.  On issues regarding science, believe the majority scientists.  On the economy, believe the majority of economists.  Etc, etc. 

We can't put our faith in politicians.  They only have to be good at getting more votes than their opponent.  And that takes a lot of bullshit.

We have to rely on the experts.  Like we should have been doing all along.

I just had a convo with a Republican friend who said "what do you want?"  I said I want a President who surrounds himself with absolutely impeccable experts in their field and I never hear anything about any of it or any of them them for the next four years.  He said, "that's fair"

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33 minutes ago, BravoBravo said:

Well we do know that green energy is pissing in the wind.., get over it and start building the cleanest energy on the face of the earth, nuclear, like everyone else! China has built 70 plus since 3 Mile Island , which was just an incident 

shit I don't actually believe you, Nukes I worked at Shoreham, Seabrook, Crystal river, Indian point, Perry,

I really don't glow in the dark  lol

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God. God will tell him the truth, if he'll listen, and is a true believer...... Not a mega-church sucker, but a true believer (Of what ever religion he ascribes to).

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Save your time. Trumpaloons will not consider such information. They want to own the libs. That means letting you waste your time explaining something they will never ever look at. 

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1 minute ago, Sol Rosenberg said:

Save your time. Trumpaloons will not consider such information. They want to own the libs. That means letting you waste your time explaining something they will never ever look at. 

Sadly, I think this is the most likely.

- DSK

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Where possible show him the actual source.

If he's looking at doctored clips, find the actual speech. If hes quoting selected bits of documents..link the actual document.

I did that..and my best friend unfriended me<_<

(She's calmed down now and is keeping her Ipad in the basement car park :D )

You might just have to agree to disagree.

 

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7 hours ago, BravoBravo said:

Well we do know that green energy is pissing in the wind.., get over it and start building the cleanest energy on the face of the earth, nuclear, like everyone else! China has built 70 plus since 3 Mile Island , which was just an incident 

Go to Japantoday.com

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7 hours ago, Jules said:

It's understandable having doubts about which politicians we can believe.  Tell him on issues regarding medicine, believe majority of doctors.  On issues regarding science, believe the majority scientists.  On the economy, believe the majority of economists.  Etc, etc. 

We can't put our faith in politicians.  They only have to be good at getting more votes than their opponent.  And that takes a lot of bullshit.

We have to rely on the experts.  Like we should have been doing all along.

We have the best government that can be bought!

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8 hours ago, BravoBravo said:

Well we do know that green energy is pissing in the wind.., get over it and start building the cleanest energy on the face of the earth, nuclear, like everyone else! China has built 70 plus since 3 Mile Island , which was just an incident 

Last winter I installed some solar panels . I didn’t about $2000 on materials and a day installing the system. My electric bill is down about $100 per month compared to last year.

 This winter I plan to add about three times more than is already installed. .... restated: I have installed 25% of what I plan to have by next year. 
As the wiring is already in place, it will cost about $5400 for the panels, electronic gizmos, and mounting equipment. 
As the panels will not make electricity at night and the full daytime generation will only be used when my compressors and AC are running, the payoff will be much longer for the $5400 and I will be pumping a lot of daytime electricity back into the grid. 
 

As people all over the country are installing solar and wind power, the contribution to our total consumption is becoming significant. 
As batteries become more efficient and other viewer ways of storing power are being developed.  We may be able to wean ourselves of a huge portion of our addiction to burning carbon. 
 

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10 hours ago, MR.CLEAN said:

I've only been able to convince trumpaloons that he is lying about covid, nothing else.  And the only thing that works for that is to show them the number of deaths in other countries versus here.  The vast majority of them have never left the US, so when you show them multiple overseas headlines about how fucked the USA is, and you show them the death numbers, there really is no response.   Everything else can be bullshitted away, at least until you lose a relative or two.  22% of the deaths, 4.6% of the population.  Repeat.

 

 

He should have sent troops into the big cities, ordered quarinteen, and had anyone found outside shot on sight.

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1 hour ago, Gouvernail said:

Last winter I installed some solar panels . I didn’t about $2000 on materials and a day installing the system. My electric bill is down about $100 per month compared to last year.

 This winter I plan to add about three times more than is already installed. .... restated: I have installed 25% of what I plan to have by next year. 
As the wiring is already in place, it will cost about $5400 for the panels, electronic gizmos, and mounting equipment. 
As the panels will not make electricity at night and the full daytime generation will only be used when my compressors and AC are running, the payoff will be much longer for the $5400 and I will be pumping a lot of daytime electricity back into the grid. 
 

As people all over the country are installing solar and wind power, the contribution to our total consumption is becoming significant. 
As batteries become more efficient and other viewer ways of storing power are being developed.  We may be able to wean ourselves of a huge portion of our addiction to burning carbon. 
 

Wouldn’t you avoid burning coal the most by just not running your compressors and AC?  

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11 hours ago, Blue Crab said:

A Trumpeteer that I can still talk to asked me in the heat of the moment, well who can we believe? I can tell him my sources but I'd like someone to come up with a better answer. Help wanted.

I've been trying to help.

 

Quote

 

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Showing results for 'koch trump' in content posted in Political Anarchy and posted by Cacoethesic Tom.

 

 

134 examples so far.

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12 hours ago, BravoBravo said:

start building the cleanest energy on the face of the earth, nuclear,

if your talking thorium salt reactors  .. yehh ok .. downside is they have no nuclear warfare ( weaponry ) benefits

upside is it eats low to high grade waste from conventional reactors

 

if your talking the current designs for standard nuclear reactors .. your not reading the rest of the sentence

low medium and high grade waste is generated at a huge rate .. and has to be stored ( by the lowest price contractor ) for millennia

its just slow poison

ie .. it aint the answer

 

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12 hours ago, BravoBravo said:

Well we do know that green energy is pissing in the wind.., get over it and start building the cleanest energy on the face of the earth, nuclear, like everyone else! China has built 70 plus since 3 Mile Island , which was just an incident 

Are you for real? San Onofre?  Chernobyl? Fukushimi?  Everyone in my life carried iodine tablets with them for 30 years living within 20 miles of San Onofre.  Anyone you know die of windmill cancer?  You would suck to be around in the yacht club bar.  Oh... a yacht club is a place where... nevermind.

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4 hours ago, Gouvernail said:

Last winter I installed some solar panels . I didn’t about $2000 on materials and a day installing the system. My electric bill is down about $100 per month compared to last year.

 This winter I plan to add about three times more than is already installed. .... restated: I have installed 25% of what I plan to have by next year. 
As the wiring is already in place, it will cost about $5400 for the panels, electronic gizmos, and mounting equipment. 
As the panels will not make electricity at night and the full daytime generation will only be used when my compressors and AC are running, the payoff will be much longer for the $5400 and I will be pumping a lot of daytime electricity back into the grid. 
 

As people all over the country are installing solar and wind power, the contribution to our total consumption is becoming significant. 
As batteries become more efficient and other viewer ways of storing power are being developed.  We may be able to wean ourselves of a huge portion of our addiction to burning carbon. 
 

How and / or where did you figure out how to do it ? I assume at those prices you self installed.

 

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29 minutes ago, roundthebuoys said:

Are you for real? San Onofre?  Chernobyl? Fukushimi?  Everyone in my life carried iodine tablets with them for 30 years living within 20 miles of San Onofre.  Anyone you know die of windmill cancer?  You would suck to be around in the yacht club bar.  Oh... a yacht club is a place where... nevermind.

Hell yes I am real !

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34 minutes ago, roundthebuoys said:

Are you for real? San Onofre?  Chernobyl? Fukushimi?  Everyone in my life carried iodine tablets with them for 30 years living within 20 miles of San Onofre.  Anyone you know die of windmill cancer?  You would suck to be around in the yacht club bar.  Oh... a yacht club is a place where... nevermind.

How many wind turbines equal the output of 1 nuclear reactor ?

A typical nuclear power plant produces 1,000 megwatts of electricity per hour.

At 25 megawatts to 1500 acres for a nice wind farm of 60 to 70 turbines, you would need 60,000 acres and 2400 to 2800 wind turbines to equal 1,000 megawatts. Of course, these wind turbines only produce that much power when the wind is blowing just right. That only happens about 25% of the time, so you really need four times as many wind turbines and four times as much space to produce, on average, 1,000 megawatts of electricity per hour. So that's, 240,000 acres and 9,600 to 11,200 turbines. 240,000 acres is 375 square miles.

At 5 acres of solar panels per megawatt, you need 5,000 acres of solar panels to equal 1,000 megawatts of electricity. Those solar panels only work at peak power levels during the sunny times, so, on average, they only put out about 25% of their rated capacity. That means you really need 20,000 acres of solar panels to generate 1,000 megwatts of electricity per hour, on average. 20,000 acres is 31.25 square miles.

We aren't going to put them anywhere. They are way too expensive and they don't provide a stable enough power supply to rely on. Anyplace with enough open spaces, enough wind or sun shine to be a good candidate is too far away from the east and west coasts where that power is needed most.

By comparison, the Fermi nuclearpower plant near Monroe, Michigan sits on a site of about 2 square miles and produces 1,150 megawatts of electricity 24 hours a day for 18 months straight. Then it needs to be shut down for a month for maintenance and refueling and it can go right back to making power 24 hours a day, rain or shine. They are even thinking about adding another reactor that will double the output of the plant on the same amount of land.

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Well, thanks folks. We're all on the same page. As several noted, the faithful won't make the effort. That's been my experience. One pal I can't talk to any longer hollered back (IN ALL CAPS): "I watch all the news channels so don't give me ..." (I was dodging droplets.)

As I have so many times before, I'm returning to Point Break's Einstein quote: "Few people are capable of expressing with equanimity opinions which differ from the prejudices of their social environment. Most people are even incapable of forming such opinions." 

Fun Fact: "The Gallup International, a self-reporting survey conducted via telephone, indicates that 37% of Americans report that they attend religious services weekly or near-weekly in 2013."  Coincidence? Add in a number of bubbas that believe in Jesus but don't attend, I see trouble in Nov.

 

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7 minutes ago, Blue Crab said:

One pal I can't talk to any longer hollered back (IN ALL CAPS): "I watch all the news channels so don't give me ..."

If that pal meant FOX, CNN and MSNBC, then I understand the anger.  24-hour "news" channels all foment fear, anger and hatred.  This test will prove it: find a time when you're in a good mood.  Then sit down and turn on any one of those stations and time how long before your emotions begin to boil.

Shouldn't be long.

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4 hours ago, Rok Dog said:

ordered quarinteen,

I know I am not supposed to make fun of the handicapped, but it amazes me that you people don't realize why you are trump's marks.

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5 hours ago, Rok Dog said:

He should have sent troops into the big cities, ordered quarinteen, and had anyone found outside shot on sight.

Thank you Chairman Mao. 

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The line between news and opinion has been blurred beyond repair.  I try to point them to real news.  Who, what, why, when, where, and how. Even FOX has a few of those left.  But Sol is pretty much accurate in post 14.

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First practice on some Jehovah Witnesses and Scientologists. When you are able to help them understand they have been brainwashed then try your friend again.

If all else fails ask them to find a quiet place and meditate while chanting

ohwa

tigoo

siam

May the force be with you, good luck, godspeed, don't bet on the horses.

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17 hours ago, Blue Crab said:

A Trumpeteer that I can still talk to asked me in the heat of the moment, well who can we believe? I can tell him my sources but I'd like someone to come up with a better answer. Help wanted.

This is a "serious question", are you joking? 

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Who can we believe? 

That's the wrong question. It's a question that says "I only want to believe one source, one side, and one narrative". But life is not like that is it? Reality is not so black and white, so binary. 

Take the current, um, discussion about climate change. Some groups are saying climate change is "responsible" for the fires. Others, erroneously, say that it's because we "stopped" (BS) logging or we didn't clear the forests or whatever. The answer is both are true and we know this because fire & climate scientists, ecologists and others have studied this rather extensively. Forest management practices are only the starting point and climate change acts like a force & threat multiplier to make the situation considerably worse. 

So my answer to this is: believe yourself. Employ some critical thinking skills and exercise some judgement over what is logical and what is supported by data. If you don't believe the data ask yourself why not. Do you really believe it's some conspiracy and somebody is faking it? If so why, and what do they have to gain? How likely is that to even be possible?

Most of us do this pretty much automatically. It can be taught. That it isn't taught and people are left to ask "who should I believe?" by which they mean "who should I blindly follow" is the true travesty of modern America. We need to double funding for education. At least. 

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17 hours ago, Blue Crab said:

A Trumpeteer that I can still talk to asked me in the heat of the moment, well who can we believe? I can tell him my sources but I'd like someone to come up with a better answer. Help wanted.

That is like a hard core Catholic asking an imam, a rabbi, and an atheist what to believe about the afterlife :rolleyes: The first step is the extremely painful step of admitting *everything you know is wrong* and that is not easy for ANYONE. Speaking of Catholics, I know a few that stick to the "few bad apples" theory of horny pedo-priests.  They just cannot process the information that is out there and it just bounces off them. It is just too much for them to admit the rituals and beliefs that have defined them for their entire lives are suspect. They just can't.

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1 minute ago, DustyDreamer said:

Some groups are erroneously, saying climate change is "responsible" for the fires. Others, say that it's because we "stopped" (BS) logging or we didn't clear the forests or whatever.

FIFY. 

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1 minute ago, Venom said:

FIFY. 

Perfect example of complete lack of critical thinking skills and acting on emotion without evidence. Thanks for that. 

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1 minute ago, DustyDreamer said:

Who can we believe? 

That's the wrong question. It's a question that says "I only want to believe one source, one side, and one narrative". But life is not like that is it? Reality is not so black and white, so binary. 

Take the current, um, discussion about climate change. Some groups are saying climate change is "responsible" for the fires. Others, erroneously, say that it's because we "stopped" (BS) logging or we didn't clear the forests or whatever. The answer is both are true and we know this because fire & climate scientists, ecologists and others have studied this rather extensively. Forest management practices are only the starting point and climate change acts like a force & threat multiplier to make the situation considerably worse. 

So my answer to this is: believe yourself. Employ some critical thinking skills and exercise some judgement over what is logical and what is supported by data. If you don't believe the data ask yourself why not. Do you really believe it's some conspiracy and somebody is faking it? If so why, and what do they have to gain? How likely is that to even be possible?

Most of us do this pretty much automatically. It can be taught. That it isn't taught and people are left to ask "who should I believe?" by which they mean "who should I blindly follow" is the true travesty of modern America. We need to double funding for education. At least. 

Step 1 - get over the "BOTH SIDES" idea. As much as I loath Ayn Rand and her merry band of destructive assholes, one of the tenets of her bullshit Objectivism actually is very valid: "What is is". There actually is objective truth in the world. We have been trained for decades that EVERYTHING has a D side and an R side, or Liberal side and Conservative side, or whatever, that it hardly even matters if any of it is true, you just pull for your team. The whole country is being trained to be Straussian.

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2 minutes ago, kent_island_sailor said:

Step 1 - get over the "BOTH SIDES" idea. As much as I loath Ayn Rand and her merry band of destructive assholes, one of the tenets of her bullshit Objectivism actually is very valid: "What is is". There actually is objective truth in the world. We have been trained for decades that EVERYTHING has a D side and an R side, or Liberal side and Conservative side, or whatever, that it hardly even matters if any of it is true, you just pull for your team. The whole country is being trained to be Straussian.

Why get over something that Republicans deeply believe? For fucks sake these dumbfucks are willing to kill themselves instead of wear a mask because mask are librul science.

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Maybe the big question is are you more interested in affirmation or information?

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Step 0.5 - Get over politics as a religion! Politics is very imperfect humans muddling through messes, not All-Knowing-Gods on one side vs. a host of demons on the other side*. For one sad example, I know someone who does not like guns, is not good with them, and really would never touch one except they think owning guns is a defining statement of their politics religion and so they bought some just because :rolleyes:

* well lately maybe it is :o

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One strategy I employ, which is admittedly deceptive, is to couch things in very conservative terms - I'll use the language of RWNJs or even pretend to be one myself. Confirmation bias. People believe info from sources they identify as being affiliated with their political group but disbelieve it if they hear it elsewhere (studies exist on this, as you'd expect)

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4 hours ago, BravoBravo said:

How many wind turbines equal the output of 1 nuclear reactor ?

A typical nuclear power plant produces 1,000 megwatts of electricity per hour.

At 25 megawatts to 1500 acres for a nice wind farm of 60 to 70 turbines, you would need 60,000 acres and 2400 to 2800 wind turbines to equal 1,000 megawatts. Of course, these wind turbines only produce that much power when the wind is blowing just right. That only happens about 25% of the time, so you really need four times as many wind turbines and four times as much space to produce, on average, 1,000 megawatts of electricity per hour. So that's, 240,000 acres and 9,600 to 11,200 turbines. 240,000 acres is 375 square miles.

At 5 acres of solar panels per megawatt, you need 5,000 acres of solar panels to equal 1,000 megawatts of electricity. Those solar panels only work at peak power levels during the sunny times, so, on average, they only put out about 25% of their rated capacity. That means you really need 20,000 acres of solar panels to generate 1,000 megwatts of electricity per hour, on average. 20,000 acres is 31.25 square miles.

We aren't going to put them anywhere. They are way too expensive and they don't provide a stable enough power supply to rely on. Anyplace with enough open spaces, enough wind or sun shine to be a good candidate is too far away from the east and west coasts where that power is needed most.

By comparison, the Fermi nuclearpower plant near Monroe, Michigan sits on a site of about 2 square miles and produces 1,150 megawatts of electricity 24 hours a day for 18 months straight. Then it needs to be shut down for a month for maintenance and refueling and it can go right back to making power 24 hours a day, rain or shine. They are even thinking about adding another reactor that will double the output of the plant on the same amount of land.

If you think they are a great investment, how about you buy the white elephant being built by the southern company.  I'm already tired of paying for it and we haven't even fired it up yet.

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18 hours ago, Blue Crab said:

A Trumpeteer that I can still talk to asked me in the heat of the moment, well who can we believe? I can tell him my sources but I'd like someone to come up with a better answer. Help wanted.

An adult who even asks that question is beyond help.

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18 hours ago, Blue Crab said:

A Trumpeteer that I can still talk to asked me in the heat of the moment, well who can we believe? I can tell him my sources but I'd like someone to come up with a better answer. Help wanted.

That's a very good question, because every source anyone can mention can be accused of some sort of bias.  Especially in this day and age.  Any source I'm not familiar with, I run past media check media bias websites first.  Of course - that is going to fall into the trap of mainstream media, which is the genius of Trump.  Because if you can't believe anything you hear, he IS the only authority.

You're in a no-win that Trump has created.  It is the definition of a cult, where many Republicans will only believe what comes from their politicans mouths.  It makes introspection and rational decision making impossible.

Joker and Bravo are perfect examples.  Dog to a lesser degree.

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33 minutes ago, DustyDreamer said:

Most of us do this pretty much automatically. It can be taught. That it isn't taught and people are left to ask "who should I believe?" by which they mean "who should I blindly follow" is the true travesty of modern America. We need to double funding for education. At least. 

It's not about education. It's about the church teaching children at a young age that you shouldn't question faith and authority, no matter how decrepit, corrupt, or illogical they may be.  add in a fairly small number of truly hardcore white supremacists and a healthy dose of tax-evading Gordon Gekko types and you got the full trump coalition

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14 minutes ago, DustyDreamer said:

One strategy I employ, which is admittedly deceptive, is to couch things in very conservative terms - I'll use the language of RWNJs or even pretend to be one myself. Confirmation bias. People believe info from sources they identify as being affiliated with their political group but disbelieve it if they hear it elsewhere (studies exist on this, as you'd expect)

example?

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13 minutes ago, DustyDreamer said:

One strategy I employ, which is admittedly deceptive, is to couch things in very conservative terms - I'll use the language of RWNJs or even pretend to be one myself. Confirmation bias. People believe info from sources they identify as being affiliated with their political group but disbelieve it if they hear it elsewhere (studies exist on this, as you'd expect)

Best one ever - very fun to try:

Jesus comes back and walks into a torture cell in the Middle East. What does he do next?

The look of confusion on the victim's face is priceless :lol: You can see them about to say "Well of course he would say STOP IT" but before they speak they realize what the problem is. I get results like "Well who is the prisoner" and I say WRONG ANSWER - Jesus was the VICTIM of a powerful local ruler using torture to keep everyone in line and along with an occupying superpower. He was and presumably still would be opposed to torturing ANYONE.

(believe it nor not, not torturing people was once a commonly held value in liberal democracies and still is in some :rolleyes:)

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5 minutes ago, SloopJonB said:

An adult who even asks that question is beyond help.

Here is beyond help: Another guy I know is a full-fledged Trumpeteer. Looks like a bubba with hugely fat wife, pickup, guns and big ass dogs, is from Pittsburg, has no problem with using nigger, has been in prison, tats and all, recently announced to the group that "it's not politics anymore, it's good v. evil."

I plan on avoiding this person for the rest of my life.

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5 minutes ago, SloopJonB said:
18 hours ago, Blue Crab said:

A Trumpeteer that I can still talk to asked me in the heat of the moment, well who can we believe? I can tell him my sources but I'd like someone to come up with a better answer. Help wanted.

An adult who even asks that question is beyond help.

I have had somewhat similar conversations with Trumpalo acquaintances. Perhaps I should not call them Trumpalos because they at least act polite and don't make messes on the floor, but they are still brainwashed cult members.

The conversation goes something like this: "How do you know if the news you are watching/listening/reading is not false/biased?" Generally, the news media that corrects itself and admits errors, is one that has a commitment to actually publishing verifiable facts. Stuff that really happened in the real world. News media that falls in line with reality as you can observe it for yourself.

For example, I know quite well the state of the national economy (from the perspective of an investor) because I have been an investor since about 1975.  I read a fair amount of financial news from a wide variety of sources and most of them are subject to audit and serious repercussion if they make false financial claims. So any "news" that repeats Trump's absurd claim to have "built the greatest economy the world has ever seen" (or such verbiage) is false. A true statement is that Trump SAYS this, or some variation with some numbers drawn from reality to demonstrate the actual facts of th economy.

Apply this same logic to any field you are familiar with: medicine, engineering, travel, agriculture, etc etc. There's news and then there's bullshit.

The Trumpalos say things like "They ALL lie! I don't believe ANY news!" and then they go on to spout the latest Fox/Rush/InfoWars talking point. Clearly they -do- believe something they're being told. And they're not applying a common sense observable-reality filter to it.

 

9 minutes ago, MR.CLEAN said:

It's not about education. It's about the church teaching children at a young age that you shouldn't question faith and authority, no matter how decrepit, corrupt, or illogical they may be.  add in a fairly small number of truly hardcore white supremacists and a healthy dose of tax-evading Gordon Gekko types and you got the full trump coalition

One of the first things a gaslighter or cult leader will say is "All the others are lying to you! Trust only me!"

Later on, you get the direct conflict: "Who are you going to believe, me or your own lying eyes?"

- DSK

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8 minutes ago, MR.CLEAN said:

example?

Lots of good ones. The forest management vs climate change is good. I acknowledge that logging isn't what it used to be but then talk about how demand for logging on federal lands is down in part because the industry has changed so much. Then we talk about the bark beetle - which around here is self-evadent. Then we talk about how hot and dry it is and wow, that's gotta make for some big fires. Boom. We've acknowledged that the climate has changed without ever saying the C word. Call it weather and they get it... call it climate and somehow it's bullshit.  

Literally ya change the words and suddenly nobody has a problem with it. 

Like deer tags. If you said them environmentalists want to regulate hunting to practice conservation it's a huge issue. If you say we need to have deer tags so some idjut from the city doesn't shoot 20 does and leave them to rot, it's like "uh, yeah, of course we got have, um, limits".

 

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52 minutes ago, Sol Rosenberg said:

Bob Woodward taping Trump for 19 sessions....

7 of which Trump called Woodward.

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1 hour ago, kent_island_sailor said:

The whole country is being trained to be Straussian.

The Straussians would have been more successful if they had not started lying to each other. 

Have not followed them for a while, but they sure were cult-like. 

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1 hour ago, kent_island_sailor said:

well lately maybe it is :o

Well yeah it is because US politics have become a class war lately of the urban multi-cultural “elite” vs the white redneck identitarians. If you lean white & redneck your sources have to be wrong to appeal to you and it puts these guys in a “thought well” where it takes lots of mental energy to escape.

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Agree with the poster above who said be way skeptical of sources that never make corrections (FAUX hardly ever does). 

Also, I used to suggest to my students that, just as it is among their peers caught lying, if they catch a media outlet lying 

or mangling the truth, they should no longer trust said outlet (or peer). 

Confusing things even further is the fact that what a news outlet does NOT cover is often more important than what 

it does cover.  

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2 minutes ago, AJ Oliver said:

Agree with the poster above who said be way skeptical of sources that never make corrections (FAUX hardly ever does). 

Also, I used to suggest to my students that, just as it is among their peers caught lying, if they catch a media outlet lying 

or mangling the truth, they should no longer trust said outlet (or peer). 

Confusing things even further is the fact that what a news outlet does NOT cover is often more important than what 

it does cover.  

Rx... some serious self reflection 

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1 minute ago, BravoBravo said:

Rx... some serious self reflection 

Pretty sure you are incapable of that . .  

Unlike lying weasel anonymous trolls (i.r., you) 

I put my name on what I write and am accountable for it. 

While the Reich babbles endlessly about "personal responsibility", 

they mean for everybody else - not themselves. 

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18 minutes ago, AJ Oliver said:

Pretty sure you are incapable of that . .  

Unlike lying weasel anonymous trolls (i.r., you) 

I put my name on what I write and am accountable for it. 

While the Reich babbles endlessly about "personal responsibility", 

they mean for everybody else - not themselves. 

You have a lot of work to do.. I cannot imagine that you live with another human being, male or female.. you are probably a cat person 

 

96408620-4A04-45C9-8D21-B487CEA4EDAC.jpeg

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5 minutes ago, BravoBravo said:

You have a lot of work to do.. I cannot imagine that you live with another human being, male or female.. you are probably a cat person

One might assume this is because you haven't the foggiest idea what it's like to coexist with another human being and are afraid of cats.

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2 minutes ago, Danceswithoctopus said:

One might assume this is because you haven't the foggiest idea what it's like to coexist with another human being and are afraid of cats.

He just doesn't like the taste.

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1 minute ago, Ishmael said:

He just doesn't like the taste.

They are vicious and scratch right through the burlap as I hold them under water 

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Well, I guess it is safe to conclude that the Reich has scant regard for the truth - not just @BravoBravo

Those who manipulate them so easily, just keep on lying and the little Reichistas keep on lapping it up (no, I'm not a cat person). 

And it is freakin' dangerous. 

This is chilling . .   

https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2020/9/14/1977463/-Armed-vigilantes-set-up-rural-checkpoints-in-Oregon-as-antifa-fires-hoax-inflames-social-media

So tell me Reichistas, if armed guys stop you on a rural road, how can you tell if they are Antifa or your own Elk? 

Best to not take chances and just open up on them, Right? 

 

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"This is chilling . .   

the article cited above is so important that it deserves its own thread. 

So here goes . . 

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26 minutes ago, AJ Oliver said:

Well, I guess it is safe to conclude that the Reich has scant regard for the truth - not just @BravoBravo

Those who manipulate them so easily, just keep on lying and the little Reichistas keep on lapping it up (no, I'm not a cat person). 

And it is freakin' dangerous. 

This is chilling . .   

https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2020/9/14/1977463/-Armed-vigilantes-set-up-rural-checkpoints-in-Oregon-as-antifa-fires-hoax-inflames-social-media

So tell me Reichistas, if armed guys stop you on a rural road, how can you tell if they are Antifa or your own Elk? 

Best to not take chances and just open up on them, Right? 

 

Magnified 
Noise! 

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11 minutes ago, BravoBravo said:

Magnified  Noise! 

Your usual level of astute analysis. 

Uber-jerk 

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2 hours ago, kent_island_sailor said:

(believe it nor not, not torturing people was once a commonly held value in liberal democracies and still is in some :rolleyes:)

They no longer use torture.

Advanced nations now use enhanced interrogation techniques.

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36 minutes ago, AJ Oliver said:
48 minutes ago, BravoBravo said:

Magnified  Noise! 

Your usual level of astute analysis. 

Uber-jerk 

I think he was referring to himself.

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22 hours ago, Jules said:

We have to rely on the experts.  Like we should have been doing all along.

Science doesn't know!  :ph34r:

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47 minutes ago, Danceswithoctopus said:

What matters is that science knows what it doesn't know.

And science knows that Trump knows fuck-all.

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5 hours ago, BravoBravo said:

You have a lot of work to do.. I cannot imagine that you live with another human being, male or female.. you are probably a cat person 

 

96408620-4A04-45C9-8D21-B487CEA4EDAC.jpeg

 

trumporb.jpg

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I am a cat person, and I will tell you that cats are cool.

 

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4 minutes ago, Mrleft8 said:

I am a cat person, and I will tell you that cats are cool.

 

Another reminder Millennials dropped the ball on Rock’nRoll... I blame that on the public schools and PC ... most of the primal urges that come along with puberty were suppressed... a drab lot of programmed bots... 

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Quote

How many wind turbines equal the output of 1 nuclear reactor ?

How many wind could be built with the long term cost of deactivating a nuclear power plant?

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16 hours ago, Rok Dog said:

He should have sent troops into the big cities, ordered quarinteen, and had anyone found outside shot on sight.

Did you eat a lot of paint chips as a child?

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8 minutes ago, B.J. Porter said:
16 hours ago, Rok Dog said:

He should have sent troops into the big cities, ordered quarinteen, and had anyone found outside shot on sight.

Did you eat a lot of paint chips as a child?

More Trumpublican logic: "When a group of citizens is raising hell about too many of them getting shot, shoot more of them"

- DSK

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6 hours ago, kent_island_sailor said:

Meanwhile one of my elderly relations is afraid to leave the house because busloads of Antifa thugs are waiting to kill her :rolleyes:

My parents are far more concerned about maskless mouth-breathing fuckwits.

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On 9/14/2020 at 6:10 PM, MR.CLEAN said:

I've only been able to convince trumpaloons that he is lying about covid, nothing else.  And the only thing that works for that is to show them the number of deaths in other countries versus here.  ....

Let me start with I am on team I. And not a Trump fan.  And that the pandemic has cost me a shitload of revenue as I don’t deliver boats with pandemic deniers abroad. Also closed foreign ports are hurting me.

Understanding where I am coming from,  I have gotten info from “well placed” people in hospitals that they add COVID as a causes of death to get more insurance money.  Thinking theirs was bullshit, I did some research.  And facts show hospitals are paid more for COVID illnesses than non-COVID.  Example https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/factcheck/2020/04/24/fact-check-medicare-hospitals-paid-more-covid-19-patients-coronavirus/3000638001/

A more accurate measurement is the positivity rate or raw number of cases.

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3 minutes ago, Snore said:

Let me start with I am on team I. And not a Trump fan.  And that the pandemic has cost me a shitload of revenue as I don’t deliver boats with pandemic deniers abroad. Also closed foreign ports are hurting me.

Understanding where I am coming from,  I have gotten info from “well placed” people in hospitals that they add COVID as a causes of death to get more insurance money.  Thinking theirs was bullshit, I did some research.  And facts show hospitals are paid more for COVID illnesses than non-COVID.  Example https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/factcheck/2020/04/24/fact-check-medicare-hospitals-paid-more-covid-19-patients-coronavirus/3000638001/

A more accurate measurement is the positivity rate or raw number of cases.

While the article states it is true that COVID patients pay more and there is an avenue for fraud, the article was also quite explicit that there have been ZERO claims of this happening, ZERO evidence that doctors and hospitals are doing it, and a very slight chance anyone will try it. There are penalties for this kind of fraud.

 

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8 hours ago, kent_island_sailor said:

Meanwhile one of my elderly relations is afraid to leave the house because busloads of Antifa thugs are waiting to kill her :rolleyes:

I'm sure that is true, but it is not in the least funny. 

Our elders being marinated in fear . . 

She is a victim of Reich-Wing psych terror. 

Does that just garner a mild "tsk tsk" from you ? 

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6 minutes ago, AJ Oliver said:

I'm sure that is true, but it is not in the least funny. 

Our elders being marinated in fear . . 

She is a victim of Reich-Wing psych terror. 

Does that just garner a mild "tsk tsk" from you ? 

Bored old people watching Fox News end up being terrified of everything :rolleyes:

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5 minutes ago, kent_island_sailor said:

Bored old people watching Fox News end up being terrified of everything :rolleyes:

And you are fine with FAUX doing that to our elders? 

Do you not grasp that it did not used to be that way ? 

You seem to be not bothered much at all. 

Personally, I am outraged majorly. 

Shame on you for being passive in the face of evil. 

(I'm angry here, but trying to be civil - hope I succeeded) 

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