akhcheung

Dip pole gybe - keep lazy sheet on top pole

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14 minutes ago, AnotherSailor said:

Yes totally! The only way to fuck it up is by not running the sheet fast enough.

...

Yeah, they said gybing with assyms would be so much easier.  I don't notice much difference really, you still need the bow, cockpit and driver to be well coordinated, and the clusterfucks are only slightly less frequent.

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2 minutes ago, Rain Man said:

Yeah, they said gybing with assyms would be so much easier.  I don't notice much difference really, you still need the bow, cockpit and driver to be well coordinated, and the clusterfucks are only slightly less frequent.

That is probably somewhat true. The bow just needs strength and a slight sense of timing to 1) yank the sheet down when the clew is about to cross the forestay and 2) when the clusterfuck occurs just hang with their full weight on the assym until forestay and sail are separated again. 

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If the OP's issue is a pattern, it's a cockpit problem, not a bow problem.  If the sail is flying correctly and is rotated correctly through the gybe, as others have pointed out, the sheets are loaded, and will remain higher than the guy until the pole is brought back on the new guy.  Double tapping is great for first set.  I have yet to see or care when sheet/guy are rigged separately or in tandem, but tandem is always sheet clipped to guy, and separate only seems advantageous to teams who have their shit together in relatively light conditions when you'd want the option to drop the typically substantially heavier guy.

Party in the front is typically caused by too much party in the back.  When the decisions, driver, main, and headsail trimming is firing correctly, the difficulties up front are significantly reduced.  Rodeo is a bandaid/workaround for trimming errors, which may or may not be related to driving or decisions.

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11 hours ago, Dogfish4255 said:

and separate only seems advantageous to teams who have their shit together in relatively light conditions when you'd want the option to drop the typically substantially heavier guy.

This is why the brace (guy) is clipped into the sheet,  so it can be removed in lighter air to help the kite "float".

Double clipping won't work on some kites & it also can give rise to one of the foredeck problems which can't be blamed on the back of the boat (which can be a surprisingly small sample) when the wrong clip is fired.

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On 9/18/2020 at 9:20 AM, Raz'r said:

I always thought the dip-pole was a thing of beauty, keeping the kite flying and letting the team do their work. . Now that I’m flying Assyms on a penalty pole, the dance has been replace by the brute force of running 80’ of sheet. 
 

yes, the sailplan is faster, but the joy of the teamwork is a bit lost.

On 9/18/2020 at 9:27 AM, sledracr said:

Agreed.  I remember one gibe in particular, SoCal midwinter regatta on a 50-footer, headed straight toward the LA breakwater at full speed, and needed to pull off a perfect gibe, right at the breakwater, in order to keep position on (and gain tactical control of) another boat.

Nailed it.  Pole never slowed down on its arc through the foretriangle.  All the string-pullers did a flawless job, the driver made the right move in the right way at the right spot, and the rest of us did our parts. 

Walking back from the point I remember thinking "dayummm, that was fun!"

I've seen a crew screw up an asym gybe. It was not pretty.

The team work is a thing of beauty but it takes so fricking long to get a functioning team that can sail all the time.
Which is why sailing has moved to better, easier to sail designs. Imagine if we had these sporty boats back in the 70, 80 and 90's when everyone used their home equity to buy boats. what a wonderful world it would have been.

 

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23 minutes ago, Meat Wad said:

I've seen my crew screw up an asym gybe. It was not pretty.

The team work is a thing of beauty but it takes so fricking long to get a functioning team that can sail all the time.

 

FIFY.

* That included the idiot at the helm

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7 minutes ago, Throatwarbler-Mangrove said:

FIFY.

* That included the idiot at the helm

Miss you TWM! You're a tremendous idiot :*

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53 minutes ago, Meat Wad said:

I've seen a crew screw up an asym gybe. It was not pretty.

The team work is a thing of beauty but it takes so fricking long to get a functioning team that can sail all the time.
Which is why sailing has moved to better, easier to sail designs. Imagine if we had these sporty boats back in the 70, 80 and 90's when everyone used their home equity to buy boats. what a wonderful world it would have been.

 

27 minutes ago, Throatwarbler-Mangrove said:

FIFY.

* That included the idiot at the helm

Hey idiot, I do not own a boat that has an asym on board. I do not own an asym and never will. A sail you only need once a year is not worth the money. The area I live is mostly up and down wind. very little need for an asym.

When I gybe my boat, the kite usually flys perfectly and we have complete gybes.

Edit your own text but do not point the finger

 

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39 minutes ago, Meat Wad said:

Hey idiot, I do not own a boat that has an asym on board. I do not own an asym and never will. A sail you only need once a year is not worth the money. The area I live is mostly up and down wind. very little need for an asym.

When I gybe my boat, the kite usually flys perfectly and we have complete gybes.

Edit your own text but do not point the finger

 

You make the normal mistake of thinking all assyms are on centerline poles. You are incorrect.

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The Spin Pole on my old ride was 38' long....pay attention and practice and make sure you have good mates in the pit...It is never ever ever the "trimmers" fault.....watch your fingers and set everything up prior to any Jibe ...the reaching strut must also be made quickly so that the transfer is perfect. What's that old statement? Be Prepared? Inspect it or Expect it? 

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Mostly I hope that the guy controlling the topping lift doesn't drop the pole on my head.  That's the reason why I always wear a self-inflating life vest on the foredeck now. . . I've  been knocked to the deck without comprehension by the pole (fortunately not overboard).  The "dropper" ran forward and said:  Sorry. . . I've got some methamphetamine that can help with the pain.  WTF, get out of my face.  He be gone from the boat now.  He actually brought his stash on the boat when we went into Canada for Swiftsure.  I always look aft now to see who is on the pole. . . they need to be my friend, and I spend more time behind the forestay.

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It's been a long time since I did a dip pole from the bow but my son in law does them on my boat now and I kind of like him so, remembering the two biggest screw ups of my brief dip pole experiences, I brief the first gybe with he and the pit on every occasion. "Don't yank the topper up before you hear 'made' ", and "After it's made, if you jump up and try helping push the pole back, keep your size thirteens out of the loop that inevitably forms on the deck with the new weather sheet " The first earned me some cracked front teeth when I was a little slow triggering the jaws and the second resulted in an embarrassing trip over the lifelines suspended by one leg.

And I wondered why I never got invitations to do more work on the bow? Truly, I don't miss it.

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