akhcheung

Dip pole gybe - keep lazy sheet on top pole

Recommended Posts

Advise needed!!

More often than not after a dip pole gybe, after we square the pole back, we discover that the lazy spin sheet has gone under the pole

Any tips to avoid this?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 minutes ago, akhcheung said:

Advise needed!!

More often than not after a dip pole gybe, after we square the pole back, we discover that the lazy spin sheet has gone under the pole

Any tips to avoid this?

give the lazy sheet a bit of slack and loop/swing it up and over the guy/brace, it should wind around it and just stay there.  Find an old bowman to show this and other tricks.;):P

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

When first hoisting the spinnaker, put both sheets inside the pole end, that'll save you on the first jibe.

And when you do this first jibe and all the rest of them, inmediately grab the new lazy sheet after putting the new guy in the pole end (it'll be still loaded and above  at the beginning)  and make sure it never goes below the pole end and the new guy by pulling it towards the boat.

Worked for me every single time for decades.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Foredeck person should be able to "cowboy" the lazy sheet onto the top of the pole tip.  And once it's there, flip the lazy sheet around the loaded afterguy so it stays there.

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

After the new guy is made, keep tension on the old sheet.  Don't raise the pole all the way, keep it slightly low. Let the bowman get back after clipping in the new guy, roll the lazy sheet around the tensioned new guy.  Raise the pole to preferred position and you're done.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
41 minutes ago, chuso007 said:

When first hoisting the spinnaker, put both sheets inside the pole end, that'll save you on the first jibe.

And when you do this first jibe and all the rest of them, inmediately grab the new lazy sheet after putting the new guy in the pole end (it'll be still loaded and above  at the beginning)  and make sure it never goes below the pole end and the new guy by pulling it towards the boat.

Worked for me every single time for decades.

The first part is the key.  Do that,and you will be fine 99% of the time (unless the cockpit really messes up their end). 

The tension in the soon-to-be new lazy sheet while the guy is being brought on keeps it above the guy as the pole comes up and back.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Burden here is really on the cockpit.   The kite should be kept flying and full through the jibe, meaning that both sheets are drawing.  Really good to have one person with a sheet in each hand, focusing on nothing except keeping the kite full and properly rotating around the forestay while someone else takes care of the guys.  This keeps boat speed up, which reduces apparent wind (assuming the driver is nicely keeping downwind through the process), and also makes it very natural that the pole and new guy lift up to the newly lazy sheet.  On a 40-foot boat, I figure on free-flying the kite off of both sheets for around 10 seconds, and then slowly trading tension with the new guy as it is cranked back.   That tension -trade is another 5 seconds.      The bow and mast team should be able to switch the guys in a very relaxed and unloaded manner if the kite trimmer is doing a good job.     

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
59 minutes ago, chuso007 said:

When first hoisting the spinnaker, put both sheets inside the pole end, that'll save you on the first jibe.

Yeah... I personally have never liked this approach. 

First, it's not necessary (it's a simple matter to flick the lazy sheet on top of the pole as part of the normal clean-up after the set...and/or as the bow person goes forward for the next gibe). 

But more than that, it can lead to disasters.  I've seen big loops of lazy-sheet get sucked into the pole-end as the guy is brought back, and it can create a real mess. 

 

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
46 minutes ago, sledracr said:

I've seen big loops of lazy-sheet get sucked into the pole-end as the guy is brought back

Never, ever had that problem, if the boat's big enough to use double sheets, the bowman should be free to pull both while the mastman hoists the chute. If it's the bowman who hoists, then you should probably be using single sheets.

 

46 minutes ago, sledracr said:

First, it's not necessary (it's a simple matter to flick the lazy sheet on top of the pole as part of the normal clean-up after the set...and/or as the bow person goes forward for the next gibe). 

Not on a big boat, when you pull up the pole the lazy sheet will get under it, and you don't want your bowman on the pointy end, unless it is strictly necessary (like for dousing the jib) especially in big winds. Neither do you want him to spend some time moving around trying to put the lazy sheet on top of a pole end that's a few meters away from the boat.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, some dude said:

Foredeck rodeo.  A lost art. 

Proud to have been part of 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
44 minutes ago, chuso007 said:

you don't want your bowman on the pointy end, unless it is strictly necessary

No need to go to the bow to flick the lazy sheet over the pole.  A competent bow-monkey can do it from the shrouds.

  • Like 5

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Get an Ayso and that problem goes away.  Of course, you may have a 'little dick' problem, but still a better option.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Underrated tip: When connecting the sheet and guy to the clew of the kite, make sure the sheet is clipped on the ring above the guy. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
16 minutes ago, jackolantern said:

make sure the sheet is clipped on the ring above the guy. 

I always clipped the sheet to the sail, and clipped the guy to the ring end of the sheet snap-shackle.  Makes it easier to flip/keep the lazy sheet on top of the pole.

  • Like 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Wow, I used to be a half competent Bowman, now I wonder if I remember how. I can't remember the last time I did a dip pole gybe.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, sledracr said:

I always clipped the sheet to the sail, and clipped the guy to the ring end of the sheet snap-shackle.  Makes it easier to flip/keep the lazy sheet on top of the pole.

And it allows you to remove the lazy guy in light air

  • Like 5

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Bow man rodeo, man its been years since I have had to loop the lazy sheet.   It use to give us something to do downwind, now all we do is hike and haul ass.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

For the past 40 years I’ve simply whipped a stiff  1/2 ID black rubber hose ... perhaps 130 mm long ..to the foreguy eye on the bottom of the pole 

this little rubber finger faces foreword

 

it works.  Perhaps 75 percent success rate for keeping the sheet from slipping off the pole tip when using lightweight modern sheets  

this is the style pole end I use 

 

0373F1E4-6803-4ABB-AA84-D6796A252D9A.jpeg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, slug zitski said:

For the past 40 years I’ve simply whipped a stiff  1/2 ID black rubber hose ... perhaps 130 mm long ..to the foreguy eye on the bottom of the pole 

this little rubber finger faces foreword

 

it works.  Perhaps 75 percent success rate for keeping the sheet from slipping off the pole tip when using lightweight modern sheets  

this is the style pole end I use 

 

0373F1E4-6803-4ABB-AA84-D6796A252D9A.jpeg

Does that have a trigger?, Doesn't look like it

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, sledracr said:

No need to go to the bow to flick the lazy sheet over the pole.  A competent bow-monkey can do it from the shrouds.

Yeah..., you may not want to have the monkey there either.

Certainly not at any serious level of racing and certainly not on anything larger than 35-40 feet.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If you can't flick it over for whatever reason, grinding the downhaul / foreguy against the sheet will usually flip it over the top

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, sledracr said:

Yeah... I personally have never liked this approach. 

First, it's not necessary (it's a simple matter to flick the lazy sheet on top of the pole as part of the normal clean-up after the set...and/or as the bow person goes forward for the next gibe). 

But more than that, it can lead to disasters.  I've seen big loops of lazy-sheet get sucked into the pole-end as the guy is brought back, and it can create a real mess. 

 

tape the sheet and guy 1.5 m back and the lazy sheet problem goes away

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, AnotherSailor said:

Just sail a smaller boat so you don't need separate sheets and guys. 

The Foredeck Union would like to have a word with you....

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, hobot said:
6 hours ago, AnotherSailor said:

Just sail a smaller boat so you don't need separate sheets and guys. 

The Foredeck Union would like to have a word with you....

AS, staye in welle litted publice spaces.....    juste sayeng.                             :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, sledracr said:

No need to go to the bow to flick the lazy sheet over the pole.  A competent bow-monkey can do it from the shrouds.

A competent trimmer can do it from near the turning block and still not lose sight of the spin trim

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, some dude said:

Foredeck rodeo.  A lost art. 

Cowboying the lazy sheet from the shrouds is the ticket.  Flicking a nice loop that drops over the pole end as the bow walks forward for the jibe is an art.  Probably a lost art

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Snaggletooth said:

AS, staye in welle litted publice spaces.....    juste sayeng.                             :)

Hey, I'm not the Ian Dubin type!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, sledracr said:

I always clipped the sheet to the sail, and clipped the guy to the ring end of the sheet snap-shackle.  Makes it easier to flip/keep the lazy sheet on top of the pole.

Never, ever clip the sheet to the guy.  Both go on the sail independently, sheet on top. 

Lets you flick the sheet, lets you drop off the lazy guy, and gives you a back-up if the sheet shackle opens on a flog. 

Bowhuman Class 201.  

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, hobot said:
5 minutes ago, Snaggletooth said:

AS, staye in welle litted publice spaces.....    juste sayeng.                             :)

Hey, I'm not the Ian Dubin type!

I cane appreciatte that, butte you didde saye 'The Unione' wantned to speake with AS, I dointe no the ortheres.                               :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yup, Guy clipped to sheet, as mentioned earlier one needs to have the ability to easily remove the Guy in Light air situations.

A-Sail Bowmen have no idea what they're missing....

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, Snaggletooth said:

I cane appreciatte that, butte you didde saye 'The Unione' wantned to speake with AS, I dointe no the ortheres.                               :)

Our Shop Steward...

 

20150530_140704_zpsdwzc2nvp.jpg

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
18 minutes ago, hobot said:

Our Shop Steward...

20150530_140704_zpsdwzc2nvp.jpg

An anchore totteng crazey olde man, withe suppossed millitarey/intellgilence/lawe enforcemente connectiones that fancies hisselfe an invincibelle enforcere ist the shoppe stewarte?         :)

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
15 minutes ago, Lowly Crew said:

What is this dip pole jibe which you discuss?:ph34r:

Let me guess you’re like 20 or so?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, hobot said:

Yup, Guy clipped to sheet, as mentioned earlier one needs to have the ability to easily remove the Guy in Light air situations.

A-Sail Bowmen have no idea what they're missing....

Nope.  You've got a high-load guy shackle clipped to a mid-range sheet shackle, or your sheet shackle is too heavy.  And if you shake loose the sheet shackle, you've got an expensive flag.   

See Post 31 for the right way to do it ... on my bow.   

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

That's OK Lefty, we all seem to have different ways of doing things that work for us.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
34 minutes ago, Left Shift said:

Nope.  You've got a high-load guy shackle clipped to a mid-range sheet shackle, or your sheet shackle is too heavy.  And if you shake loose the sheet shackle, you've got an expensive flag.   

See Post 31 for the right way to do it ... on my bow.   

If the sheet and guy are each clipped to the sail, then don't you have two shackles to blow when dousing?  I've always used two high end Tylaskas for the job, and clipped the guy to the sheet.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, ROADKILL666 said:

Let me guess you’re like 20 or so?

I wish! Yeah I sailed on brand new boats a while ago that offered dip poles but I thought maybe if there is a younger group  here a description might be in order.:)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, V21 said:

Wow, I used to be a half competent Bowman, now I wonder if I remember how. I can't remember the last time I did a dip pole gybe.

The skills we once had...

...all gone and forgotten now.

They got us across oceans. Damn.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Expat Canuck said:

If the sheet and guy are each clipped to the sail, then don't you have two shackles to blow when dousing?  I've always used two high end Tylaskas for the job, and clipped the guy to the sheet.

As Hobot said, we all have different ways of doing things.  Mine is probably more of an offshore than a round-the-buoys technique.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You also need a pit man that doesn't understand what a topping lift actually does so every gybe its either to low and hits the pullpit or too high and hits you in the head.  He can then repeat that in the drop buy blowing it while you on the bow and hit you in the head again.

  • Like 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Expat Canuck said:

If the sheet and guy are each clipped to the sail, then don't you have two shackles to blow when dousing?  I've always used two high end Tylaskas for the job, and clipped the guy to the sheet.

Nah if you blow them you to make a trip to the bow on the next beat to re-run them.  Makes the cockpit dwellers fussy.  Ease guy behind the Genoa, use the lazy guy to start pulling down the aft leach either on the bow, or under main foot and over boom.  Then clip them all together while the sewer dude repacks/bands the kite and eats as many cookies as possible

Also, clipping sheet and guy both directly to the clew keeps the clew closer to the pole.  Guy shackle into sheet shackle makes the clew twice as far from the end of the pole.  Dont forget, we're using the pole to hold that corner of the sail nice and still. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This whole post is making me feel old. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, Snaggletooth said:

An anchore totteng crazey olde man, withe suppossed millitarey/intellgilence/lawe enforcemente connectiones that fancies hisselfe an invincibelle enforcere ist the shoppe stewarte?         :)

Fuck I love this place.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 hours ago, slug zitski said:

this little rubber finger faces foreword

this is the style pole end I use 

King Cock Double Penetrator Suction Cup Dildo Flesh - Adulttoymegastore  Australia

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I know I have given up teaching anyone under 40 these things

young punks are too dum

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, hobot said:

The Foredeck Union would like to have a word with you....

Oops, yeah did foredeck on a few boats, but forgot to pay the dues...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
16 minutes ago, AnotherSailor said:

Oops, yeah did foredeck on a few boats, but forgot to pay the dues...

My card was confiscated!

Can't have had anything to do with my name.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, Snaggletooth said:

An anchore totteng crazey olde man, withe suppossed millitarey/intellgilence/lawe enforcemente connectiones that fancies hisselfe an invincibelle enforcere ist the shoppe stewarte?         :)

Snaggy, the Fordeck Union is a bad ass group, Lord Dubin is one of the easy going ones.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 hours ago, chuso007 said:

Does that have a trigger?

Its unique trigger and latch mechanism locks open until the incoming spinnaker sheet trips the trigger, snapping the latch shut.

https://www.tylaska.com/product/intrepd-ii/

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Nice, can't see how it works from the pictures, but I'll trust them

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, Bill E Goat said:

You also need a pit man that doesn't understand what a topping lift actually does so every gybe its either to low and hits the pullpit or too high and hits you in the head.  He can then repeat that in the drop buy blowing it while you on the bow and hit you in the head again.

Try being out on the pole end when instead of the gear being eased it is let go, first class ticket to the forestay

I learnt to stand on the opposite side of the forestay so you would not get clocked by the pole swinging thru and collecting the side of your head.

BTW I recall being on the end of a pole with the fitting photo above and when I spiked the kite the knuckle on the pole fitting snagged the clew ring and stretched the jaw fitting almost straight.

Never a dull moment on the bow of a big boat.....:D

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Navig8tor said:

I learnt to stand on the opposite side of the forestay so you would not get clocked by the pole swinging thru and collecting the side of your head

Never a dull moment on the bow of a big boat.....:D

That was a very early lesson. So much less dangerous these days with assys.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

That crazy old man Ian Dubin was a pretty good pitman in his youth and has been a good friend to me for over thirty years .... 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Navig8tor said:

Adventure Land!

I always thought it was frontier land

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Rushman said:

I always thought it was frontier land

indeedy , the mast man lives in adventure land

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
58 minutes ago, pickeringsv said:

That crazy old man Ian Dubin was a pretty good pitman in his youth and has been a good friend to me for over thirty years .... 

do telle.............                       :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, pickeringsv said:

That crazy old man Ian Dubin was a pretty good pitman in his youth and has been a good friend to me for over thirty years .... 

Too fukin bad for you! 

Did you go on long strolls in the alley with him, you shit slinging monkey! 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Double beak the pole on the hoist, make sure someone pulls the lazy sheet through as you work the guy back; this will solve your first trip.

From then on, post gybe make sure the lazy sheet is monitored whilst squaring the pole back as not to loose it under the pole. Once comfortable then flick the sheet around the guy in a few wraps to hold in place.

Its an art form, bloody good action!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
35 minutes ago, Cristoforo said:
1 hour ago, pickeringsv said:

That crazy old man Ian Dubin was a pretty good pitman in his youth and has been a good friend to me for over thirty years .... 

Too fukin bad for you! 

Did you go on long strolls in the alley with him, you shit slinging monkey! 

Winneng frendes and influenceng peopel aronde the globe................                       :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, Purple Headed Warrior said:

Double beak the pole on the hoist, make sure someone pulls the lazy sheet through as you work the guy back; this will solve your first trip.

From then on, post gybe make sure the lazy sheet is monitored whilst squaring the pole back as not to loose it under the pole. Once comfortable then flick the sheet around the guy in a few wraps to hold in place.

Its an art form, bloody good action!

I'm fairly sure that cowboying the lazy sheet has to be done with expert nonchalance, whilst lighting a smoke on the back off the bow.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
42 minutes ago, Snaggletooth said:

Winneng frendes and influenceng peopel aronde the globe................                       :)

midnight strolls that is. Out behind the pub 

3E6C8F54-5BB1-42DD-9D18-624640134D8F.jpeg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
29 minutes ago, V21 said:

I'm fairly sure that cowboying the lazy sheet has to be done with expert nonchalance, whilst lighting a smoke on the back off the bow.

Hahaha

What I was trying to get to was to avoid the Cowboying.... Whilst the sheet is still in the on top missionary position you wrap is lazy end around the guy to avoid it falling off....

I quite fancy some symmetric sailing talking about all this  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, pickeringsv said:

That crazy old man Ian Dubin was a pretty good pitman in his youth and has been a good friend to me for over thirty years .... 

Any chance he would return for a visit?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
20 hours ago, ROADKILL666 said:
21 hours ago, some dude said:

Foredeck rodeo.  A lost art. 

Proud to have been part of 

And me. ;)

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 hours ago, Snaggletooth said:
14 hours ago, hobot said:

Our Shop Steward...

20150530_140704_zpsdwzc2nvp.jpg

An anchore totteng crazey olde man, withe suppossed millitarey/intellgilence/lawe enforcemente connectiones that fancies hisselfe an invincibelle enforcere ist the shoppe stewarte?         :)

That's him Snaggs, watch out for moonlit strolls. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, Black Sox said:

Any chance he would return for a visit?

It wouldn’t be safe for us 

 

F7CD0EC9-EF47-43A0-9A94-2F4FBD32BFF4.jpeg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 hours ago, Bill E Goat said:

You also need a pit man that doesn't understand what a topping lift actually does so every gybe its either to low and hits the pullpit or too high and hits you in the head.  He can then repeat that in the drop buy blowing it while you on the bow and hit you in the head again.

A walk back to the pit with a winch handle can help to reinforce this lesson.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, Navig8tor said:
20 hours ago, ROADKILL666 said:

Proud to have been part of 

Adventure Land!

Beats fantasy land at the back of the bus. :lol:

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, pickeringsv said:

That crazy old man Ian Dubin was a pretty good pitman in his youth and has been a good friend to me for over thirty years .... 

How's Gracie?

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
 
Ian Dubin
Retired Civil/Geotechnical/Environmental engineer, expert witness and consultant with an interest in anomalies, MUFON Certified field investigator and part-time private detective and treasure hunter.
 
 

Wow! What a great question! Kudos to whoever posted it on Quora to start this amazing thread! And what an amazing thread it is!

Somebody less lazy than me should assemble all these yarns into a book as I am sure it would be an instant best seller.

I have two stories for you and will post them in two parts:

A bit of background

In 1981 I was privileged to be offered a job with the Government of what was, at the time, the only remaining British colony in Asia (that shouldn’t be too hard to figure out). I accepted and had my life changed forever.

The first weekend I was in the city in early 1981 (we’ll call it HK), just before my 30th birthday I went down to the most famous Yacht Club in HK and got myself invited in for a drink by chatting up a chick who was practicing motorcycle riding on the road outside the gates.

I met people, I started sailing seriously, joined the Club and for the next ten years of my life I spent every Saturday and Sunday on someone’s boat winding winches and dragging wet sails over the leeward rails.

A bit more background

When I was 8 years old I was a fat kid. I was bullied in school, had rocks thrown at me and was punched out several times in my school in Kingston Ontario. The last time, in about1959 I was rescued by a Dutch kid a couple of years older and much bigger than me and my assailant. He told me to learn to defend myself.

When I was about ten I started to try to teach myself Karate from picture books (there were no dojos in Kingston in 1961 and only a couple in Canada). In about 1964 I found a fellow enthusiast (who went on to fifth Dan) and we worked together and finally got some recognition when my friend managed to arrange for us to get tested by a Sensei from Toronto. We started the first dojo in Kingston and I practiced on and off through high school and University (with in between years devoted to playing gridiron football in high school). I started with Chito ryu Karate, moved on to Shotokan in University and during grad school spent three years practicing Shorin joryu Karate.

I could write a much longer post about the two Senseis in that dojo, one a 6 foot 2 Canadian guy who was actually a very sensitive and gentle man and never actually followed through on a strike - I can still picture him with a side kick at full extension stopped about 1/4 in from his kumite opponent’s Adam’s apple. The other, a 5 foot 8 Greek-Canadian guy who absolutely delighted in getting in real brawls and kicking the shit out of guys who outweighed him by a hundred pounds.

The only way the Greek guy would sanction promotion was if you went to a tournament and beat up someone two belt classes above you. Shorin joryu is full contact kumite - you wear a cup and a fibreglass plastron (body shield) and only score a point for a full contact strike on the plastron. I stopped going to tournaments after I saw a brown belt catch a full-on back round kick on his nose (we weren’t supposed to strike faces). The guy’s nose simply splashed and I never entered another tournament.

I dabbled in Judo and Jiu jitsu and I started lifting weights in the summer of ’73 while working in an iron mine in Labrador (there was fuck all else to do other than drink and/or fish for trout).

I have had an interest in weapons from an early age (taught to shoot by my father at age 7) and I taught myself knife techniques and practiced throwing knives through high school. I made my own nunchakus in University, including a practice set made of plastic rod covered in foam tubing - if you want to get to Bruce Lee standard with nunchuks you are going to bop yourself on the bean and other sensitive parts a lot. It helps to have foam rubber ones.

To cut an even longer story short. through various mainly auxiliary military outfits I was involved in I got to do a couple of courses in advanced unarmed combat skills (quote from one instructor - ‘the secret to unarmed combat is never to be unarmed’).

Enough background

By the time I quit my first real job as a geotechnical engineer based in Toronto and signed on with the Brit Gov in the unnamed Asian colony at age 29, I was six foot and 190 pounds of mostly bone and muscle. With some pretty severe fighting skills. They had been honed in some interesting bar brawls in Rochester, Kingston and later working as an engineer in Elliot Lake. Nothing like a little real world to help all the training sink in.

When I got invited into the unnamed Yacht Club, I was overawed by being accepted in a place with a global reputation. I sailed my ass off and by the end of my first year of membership was a fairly well regarded ‘winch monkey’ on a 40 foot Swan owned by a guy my age who was heir to a brewery fortune. Christ, we had a ball.

I also had realised that my impression of this fancy Club was not quite in accordance with reality.

Q - What happens when you get a bunch of pumped up testosterone filled guys (and some really tough girls), coming off the water after a bone rattling yacht race, maybe with collisions, the odd injury, broken sails and spars and other points of contention about the obscure rules of yacht racing, into a bar and full of rum??

A - You get brawls. Big ones, little ones, shouting and pushing matches and wild roundhouse swings. Not every night but often enough. It is a feature of Yacht Clubs all over the world and the really well known ones like to keep it quiet. Doesn’t do to sully the reputation of our august institution does it?

The unwritten rule at my unnamed club was that if you were members you were allowed to fight in the bar but if you were not (we had a lot of non-members who came along to crew) you had to go out to the parking lot.

I recall one event in 1983 during a particularly contentious qualification series to select a team of three boats to go to Australia to compete in the (then) Southern Cross Cup and the Sydney to Hobart Race. I was winding winches on my brewery heir’s Yacht (no longer a Swan - he partnered with the Senior Partner of a Law Firm and they had a purpose built Frers 43 Custom racing Yacht built - the Law Partner was as tough as nails, swam a mile a day and did foredeck). There were six yachts in the series and three spots to go to Sydney.

We had finished a race and the rum was flowing in the Main Bar. I was at one end of the bar. At the other end, our boat’s professional sailmaker was engaged in a heated argument with the Chairman of the Jury overseeing the selection race series, a decorated Chief Superintendent of Police.

The sailmaker was incensed that the CSP was denigrating our boat’s sailing abilities - at the time we were lying about 2nd in the Series which we went on to win - and the sailmaker said ‘how do you think we are doing so well?’ And the CSP said ‘you guys cheat’.

The sailmaker stood silent for a second then decked the CSP with a wild roundhouse right which, as usual, brought the bar to its’ feet with cheers and a standing ovation.

After tempers cooled, the pair of them went on as partners and (to this day) friends, to represent my unnamed British jurisdiction in the 1988 Olympics in Seoul in the Flying Dutchman Class.

It was roundabout the same time that I found myself as just about the only person who hung out in that particular club with any serious fighting skills.

Since the staff were all locals, and wanted nothing to do with the stupidity the Members got up to after too much Mount Gay, I found myself in the position of unofficial bouncer. Two guys would start whaling on one another, I pulled them apart. One guy would throw a beer in someone else’s face I would bang him against a wall to settle him down. It went on and on. Young guys kept challenging me to arm wrestling matches and trying to pick fights with me or grabbing me, which I would respond to by pinning them to the wall and tapping them in the ribs a couple of times to settle them down.

Occasionally when something serious happened someone would yell ‘get Dubin’ and I would have to step in. The management ignored it and discouraged police reporting as they didn’t want to bring disrepute on the Club and jeopardize their liquor license renewals. I developed a bit of a reputation as someone not to be fucked with. I never once in the 25 years I was unofficial bouncer actually struck anyone with intent to do injury, although on one drunken occasion in the late 80s, for some reason I do not recall, in the midst of a rather loud session, I silenced a shouting match by popping a switchblade knife and hurling it into a dartboard about 12 feet away where it miraculously pinned about a half inch from the bull.

In the mid 90’s a Canadian Naval Officer off a visiting Australian Frigate was badly assaulted on Club grounds. He had monopolized the phone in the parking lot used normally for short calls to summon taxis. He was calling Yellowknife to talk to his girlfriend and some unknown person took umbrage, beat the shit out of him and left him to bleed in the parking lot.

I was later accused by management of perpetrating this crime despite that I had had a long and friendly conversation with the guy and had been seated on the terrace with ten other people when the assault occurred. And when one of the girls with us went to look for the guy and found him unconscious and bleeding she ran to me to get help.

So I was a tough MF. But this part of the story is not about me. Part two will be.

Consider this all as background for part 2.

In the meantime I go back to the theme - picking a fight with the wrong guy.

Sandy Blam serves justice

So we are back to the same neo colonial club in the same unnamed (at this time) former British colony. This was late 2004.

My friend, Sandy Blam (not his real name) a weedy little Chinese guy who weighs maybe 140 pounds if he’s wearing wet oilskins, and likes to call himself a ‘stroppy little Chinaman’ is sitting in the same corner of the bar as where the sailmaker and the CSP had their little tiff 20 plus years before. He’s chatting with this cute young lady he has been seen there with before. Sandy has a wife and kids but they all live in Canada. I guess he was lonely.

So on this one particular Saturday night back in 2004 or so, Sandy was chatting up his young lady.

Enter James, who was at the time running for election to the General Committee of this venerable and unnamed Club. He was a self absorbed busybody. Apparently he knew the young lady’s parents.

James took it upon himself to chastise Sandy for corrupting the young lady’s morals. He approached the two of them and indulged in a finger wagging tirade telling Sandy ‘you have corrupted her morals you fucker you’ mostly in Cantonese so I am not sure what he actually said.

He kept finger wagging. The girl looked embarrassed. This went on for quite some time while the bar quieted down and the sixty or so other Members watched (with anticipation) what would happen.

So James wags his finger and shouts. And Sandy nods his head in acknowledgement for maybe a minute. The bar is riveted.

Then Sandy steps down off his bar stool, grabs James by the lapels and delivers a perfect Glasgow kiss. Where did he learn that? I don’t know, he lived in Saskatoon for a long time. Maybe he picked it up there?

The bar goes silent. James is on the ground with a broken nose and blood flooding.

James crawls out while the cheers and applause builds to epic proportions. Weedy little Sandy takes a couple of bows and goes back to chatting up his chick. The rest of the bar goes back to discussing this interesting episode.

About fifteen minutes later James arrives back in the bar with a couple of cops in tow and kleenex stuffed up his nose.

“That’s the man’ he shouts, pointing at Sandy ‘he’s the one who broke my nose! Arrest him’!

Lead cop, a lady, holds up her hand and says ‘did anyone see anything happen here’?

60 Members of this venerable Yacht Club go silent. One member says ‘Sorry officer, none of us saw anything.’ Murmuring and head shaking all around.

‘That’s my blood on the floor’ yells James, pointing to a patch of unmistakeable congealing blood on the deck where he had first bled after having his shnoz shattered ‘Take a sample for testing!’

More murmuring and head shaking and then George, a big old Canuck guy originally from Kitchener, who had been in the former colony longer than me wanders over with a pint of beer in his hand, leans over the blood stain and deliberately spills a half pint onto it.

He rubs it in with his foot, turns to lead lady cop and says ‘what blood’? More laughter all around.

No arrest, no charges. James complains to the General Committee and Sandy gets a three month suspension. James also gets a three month suspension for inviting the cops in. Hasn’t shown his face in the place since.

More on my own experiences in part 2.

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, chuso007 said:

LOL, I was going to mention I find Tylaska too expensive, but that is just ridiculous, you can get a small boat for that money...

It is meant for boats 50ft and above, after all.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This thread is giving me the chills.... meeting your mastman on the first day of a weekend, dip (penalty) pole gybes with a-kites, hearing the pole clatter on the forestay and just KNOW that the pit is now going to blow the topper.... good times....

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Back in the old days when you needed 6 guys on the foredeck we fixed that problem by having 2 poles. It was too hard to dip pole with a fixed inner forestay.

Each pole 33feet long and weighed in at about 80lbs each.

 

PS that wet soggy Dacron #Genoa weighed in at 275lbs1883124209_Ondine1980SORC.thumb.jpg.6cd57c9393229df9b4f42a1e854397cc.jpg

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites