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Dylan's New Boat Anarchy

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11 minutes ago, KC375 said:

4 different hull colours in one ad,

A regular chameleon

And two different deck houses. Must be a convertible.

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1 hour ago, Ishmael said:

And two different deck houses. Must be a convertible.

And one of those deck houses comes with two different window arrangements...multifaceted

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2 hours ago, Fah Kiew Tu said:

Because it is a LOT safer to assume the fuel is dirty and take precautions to stop any crap getting to the engine than it is to assume all will be fine, and then have the engine shit itself due to dirty fuel.

This is my filter setup. The pair on the right filter fuel from the keel tanks to the day tank. The left pair filter fuel from the day tank to the engine where there's the final manufacturer-provided filter. Gravity feed from day tank to engine.

Yes this is ridiculous paranoid overkill. But I don't worry about dirty fuel or a failure of my fuel lift pump.

FKT

 

IMG_1470.jpeg

I have often wondered if those dual CAV setups could be converted to two singles with a Y valve on the inlet, like a poor mans version of the dual racor unit that costs megabucks...

Any idea what is involved? I understand they are set up as a parallel filter at the moment, is that right?

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3 hours ago, Panope said:

My boat was on the hard for 12 years. 

Aluminum diesel tanks were 25% full, vents open to atmosphere (western Washington State).

No water, no bugs, no nothing.

I foolishly believed the diesel might be "bad" due to age, so I drained it and gave to a friend who happily used it in his truck.

Steve

 

How do you know there was no water ?  There is no way to check unless you put all of the fuel through a separator.  Water getting in is quite a natural thing.  It enters through the breather pipe and sometimes through the filler cap.  Sometimes the dirt can be hard to see.  The jar on the left of this photo contains the dirty fuel making it a little dull in colour and you can see around 10 ml of water at the bottom.  That was pretty good for a 75 gallon tank.

 

DSCN0139.JPG

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3 hours ago, Panope said:

Just for a data point,  did that 8 year old diesel have any water in it?

Don’t know - I pumped it out of my keel tank into jugs and then got rid of it.  (All told, just a few hundred $ of fuel, but now I want to know if it was any good... :-) )

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48 minutes ago, savoir said:

 

How do you know there was no water ?

Because the absolute low point (a sharp "V" shape) of my tanks, have bungs that I remove to check for water.  

There is no way to check unless you put all of the fuel through a separator.

That is wrong.  See above.  My tanks are a separator.  

Water getting in is quite a natural thing.

Agreed. 

It enters through the breather pipe and sometimes through the filler cap.

I happen to believe (for my neck of the woods, anyway) that water through the breather pipe is a very minor factor and that the primary pathway is through the fuel fill port (leaky gaskets, or watery fuel supply).

Sometimes the dirt can be hard to see. 

I can see dirt in fuel.  I spent 20 years as an aviator.  I have examined many thousands of fuel samples from aircraft fuel tanks. Standard pilot procedure is to sample each tank and the other sumps at least once a day and also after every fueling.  (by the way, the only times a found water in my fuel, was when the aircraft was left out in the rain with leaky fuel caps).

The jar on the left of this photo contains the dirty fuel making it a little dull in colour and you can see around 10 ml of water at the bottom.  That was pretty good for a 75 gallon tank.

 

Drifting even further.....

The world of aviation deals with the issue of contaminated fuel differently then marine.  Marine focuses on bullet proof filtering to prevent death (see FKT's photo, above).  The aviation world focuses on NOT beginning a flight with contaminated fuel (by having elaborate fuel sampling capability, or "sumping").  Yes, aircraft also have fuel filters, but they are very small and cannot cope with much contamination.  Certainly, a pilot cannot be tasked with changing filters mid flight.

I built my fuel system like an aircraft.  

Trust me - when I say my tanks do not have water in them.

They don't

Steve

 

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On 9/20/2020 at 12:41 PM, dylan winter said:

6hp long shaft tohatsu on the 9 foot clinker tender would be a challenge

D

 

Just lifting the damn thing will be daunting.  

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4 hours ago, olaf hart said:

I have often wondered if those dual CAV setups could be converted to two singles with a Y valve on the inlet, like a poor mans version of the dual racor unit that costs megabucks...

Any idea what is involved? I understand they are set up as a parallel filter at the moment, is that right?

Mine are a series setup - fuel goes into one then the other then the tank. Outflow the same - through 2 filters then to the engine. I'm pretty sure there's a way to block that centre port between the 2 filters though.

IIRC I have a spare filter pair setup under the bench so if I haven't given it away already I'll dig it out and take a look.

FKT

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Congrats for the new boat @dylan winter, although I definitely more a sailor than a "motorsailor" I could see myself spending weeks exploring some tidal coast where the ater is green or a grey onboard a Fischer 25 with good books, a camera and my folding bike to explore inshore!

I am always amazed how much energy people put into their diesel engines on sailing forum... The things are unreliable unless you are a top mechanic (I think I would trust @Panope, I like this attitude of eliminating causes of failure!), it is just less effort, less stress and safer to maintain them normally and have an alternative (sail, scull oar or spare engine) when the inevitable failure happens!

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5 hours ago, Amati said:

Just lifting the damn thing will be daunting.  

They aren't too bad at 59 lbs.  Even so a regular shaft Tohatsu would be better, especially around mud banks.  

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1 hour ago, Panoramix said:

Congrats for the new boat @dylan winter, although I definitely more a sailor than a "motorsailor" I could see myself spending weeks exploring some tidal coast where the ater is green or a grey onboard a Fischer 25 with good books, a camera and my folding bike to explore inshore!

I am always amazed how much energy people put into their diesel engines on sailing forum... The things are unreliable unless you are a top mechanic (I think I would trust @Panope, I like this attitude of eliminating causes of failure!), it is just less effort, less stress and safer to maintain them normally and have an alternative (sail, scull oar or spare engine) when the inevitable failure happens!

That would be maybe 1 failure in 8000 hours use - *if* you have half a brain and do basic maintenance...

FKT

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5 minutes ago, Fah Kiew Tu said:

That would be maybe 1 failure in 8000 hours use - *if* you have half a brain and do basic maintenance...

FKT

You're forgetting the 'Fear Factor'

Diesel engines smell fear, and tend to crap out when they encounter it. That's why people like Dylan and Panoramix, who have both admitted to fearing diesel engines, regularily encounter failures that others don't. :D

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11 hours ago, savoir said:

There is no way that a diesel tank can sit for years and not attract moisture.  The muck in the tank is dead bugs and those bugs live in the water not in the diesel.  The muck sits on the bottom of the tank and stays there until the boat starts bouncing around on the ocean.  Running the motor while the boat is on land doesn't prove anything.

I am not going to argue that diesel can't degrade or be compromised by biofouling but the idea that it will "attract moisture" seems to be a myth. Maine Sail (the myth buster of the sailing world) did an interesting test: https://www.pbase.com/mainecruising/fuel_tankt_condensation

I think most fuel contamination from biofouling results from water in the fuel that got there: through leaky deck fills; through water infiltrating the vent line due to poor design or installation; or from the supply chain - storage tanks, tanker trucks, etc. In cooler climates diesel will last a very long time, although periodic tank inspection and cleaning must be done to ensure a reliable fuel system. As always, YMMV.

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43 minutes ago, Jim in Halifax said:

I am not going to argue that diesel can't degrade or be compromised by biofouling but the idea that it will "attract moisture" seems to be a myth. Maine Sail (the myth buster of the sailing world) did an interesting test: https://www.pbase.com/mainecruising/fuel_tankt_condensation

http://forums.sailinganarchy.com/index.php?/topic/153377-keeping-diesel-tanks-full-stops-condensation-t-or-f/#:~:text=It makes NO difference if,will 'enter' the oil.

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1 hour ago, Fah Kiew Tu said:

That would be maybe 1 failure in 8000 hours use - *if* you have half a brain and do basic maintenance...

FKT

If you use your diesel on average 2 hours a day, 60 days a year, that's 120 hours per year, just add a long windless crossing and call it 150 hours per year and that's 50 years between breakdowns....

You need a bit more than basic maintenance to reach this kind of reliability!

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Don't forget to clean the fuel lines from the tank to the filters.  Three times I've had trouble here,  Twice on boats and once in my Landrover Defender.  If you can't get a wire down, compressed air from a dive tank does the job nicely.

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2 hours ago, Fah Kiew Tu said:

That would be maybe 1 failure in 8000 hours use - *if* you have half a brain and do basic maintenance...

FKT

I have a mate who replaced his VP 2003 at 8,500 hrs, it was still going OK but he was heading home to Queensland from Tassie, and it was burning a bit of oil.

If good maintenance can keep a 2003 going reliably for this long,  it will work for any diesel.

The local VP guy traded the diesel and onsold it after a rebuild.

My friend gave me his old spares, I am still using them...

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On 9/22/2020 at 4:10 AM, dylan winter said:

I meant volvo 

Its really a Perkins Parama M30 resprayed in the green death livery and sold-on as the 2030.  They sell the marine diesel complete and tested to Volvo but Volvo have nothing to do with it's design or production . Don't buy your parts from Volvo dealerships either.

The Perkins 100 series diesel is an excellent little engine.  Here's a good intro to the engines their history and their multiple uses : 

https://www.noordeman.com.au/100-series-perkin-boat-engines-can-be-a-volvo-penta-perama/

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13 hours ago, Fah Kiew Tu said:

Because it is a LOT safer to assume the fuel is dirty and take precautions to stop any crap getting to the engine than it is to assume all will be fine, and then have the engine shit itself due to dirty fuel.

This is my filter setup. The pair on the right filter fuel from the keel tanks to the day tank. The left pair filter fuel from the day tank to the engine where there's the final manufacturer-provided filter. Gravity feed from day tank to engine.

Yes this is ridiculous paranoid overkill. But I don't worry about dirty fuel or a failure of my fuel lift pump.

FKT

 

IMG_1470.jpeg

^ this X 1,000  ^

Because it's really not a problem if your fuel is too clean & bright.

Diesel fuel is wonderful stuff. It's a lubricant, not a solvent. It packs more BTUs but is less volatile. Gasoline will lose octane over time unless it's sealed air tight. Diesel fuel will not go bad due to age. I have that on the authority of the US Navy who at one point entrusted me with millions of gallons of the stuff. If you recirc it occasionally thru a filter/seperator, it will last forever.

Water will pool at the bottom and the interface of the fuel & water will grow bugs. These are what form that nasty sludge. You want a hefty pick-up, at least 8mm or 3/8" in diameter, as your pick-up into the primary filter. It won't block that, a good pump will ram pure sludge right thru. Yeah your engine would probably run fine on a 1.5mm or 1/16" fuel feed tube and that big-ass pipe wastes space, but it won't run on sludge or NO fuel when that cute little pick-up gets blocked. You can deliver clean fuel to the engine in as tiny a tube as you like, but if you want it to not clog, use a big pick-up from the tank. And don't put a screen on it, that's what the easily-changed filter cartridge is for.

Leaks- air can get sucked into a fuel line leak that diesel fuel will not drip out of. This is one of the main causes of balky engines. Copper tubing work-hardens from vibration over the years and tends to leak at the fittings.

OTOH if you do get diesel fuel in your bilge, those same bugs will grow happily on the residue forever. Clean it out with dish soap or whatever, then souse it with vinegar to kill the bugs. Your boat will smell like a vegan restaurant, but hey maybe it will attract hippie chicks now.

Sorry for writing out a book. I just get wrapped up in trying to counter all the old wives tales and misconceptions.

FB- Doug

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5 hours ago, Panoramix said:

........... (I think I would trust @Panope, I like this attitude of eliminating causes of failure!).............!

You would hate how high (as in high center of gravity) my fuel tanks are.   

Bad for sailing performance.

Steve

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"Green death livery"  I'm going to borrow that.

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4 hours ago, Jim in Halifax said:

I am not going to argue that diesel can't degrade or be compromised by biofouling but the idea that it will "attract moisture" seems to be a myth. Maine Sail (the myth buster of the sailing world) did an interesting test: https://www.pbase.com/mainecruising/fuel_tankt_condensation

I think most fuel contamination from biofouling results from water in the fuel that got there: through leaky deck fills; through water infiltrating the vent line due to poor design or installation; or from the supply chain - storage tanks, tanker trucks, etc. In cooler climates diesel will last a very long time, although periodic tank inspection and cleaning must be done to ensure a reliable fuel system. As always, YMMV.

I think MaineSail is a great resource to the community but his experiment was flawed and his conclusions invalid on this one. Diesel absorbs moisture from the air. In fact, its moisture carrying capacity is about equal to air. If the diesel is allowed to cool, that moisture can precipitate out and won't go back into solution readily once it re-warms. Lather, rinse, repeat, and you can accumulate a lot of liquid-phase water in your tank. 

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Seems like that boat was no orphan. 42 promising datapoints.

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26 minutes ago, IStream said:

Seems like that boat was no orphan. 42 promising datapoints.

The dip stick predates the fuel tank

Must have done a lot of miles idling around the North of britain and never being used

A wasted metaphore

D

 

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The RNYC shares a dock with fishing boats and wind farm boats

 

Their  clubhouse is a wooden light ship

 

Interesting range of yachts

 

No mobos

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, OPAL said:

Great to see you got the Fisher, always handy to have a 3rd power option.

Outboard Auxiliary (1).jpg

Outboard Auxiliary (3).jpg

Is it common to mount an OB on the Fisher 25? 

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7 hours ago, Ajax said:

"Green death livery"  I'm going to borrow that.

Maybe if I paint mine silver grey it will last longer...

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53 minutes ago, olaf hart said:

Maybe if I paint mine silver grey it will last longer...

Only if you do it to the belts and hoses too.

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14 hours ago, alphafb552 said:

You're forgetting the 'Fear Factor'

Diesel engines smell fear, and tend to crap out when they encounter it. That's why people like Dylan and Panoramix, who have both admitted to fearing diesel engines, regularily encounter failures that others don't. :D

Probably half the explanation. The other half being a complete unwillingness to learn & practice quite simple basic maintenance and then blaming the engine for the quite predictable result. I'm of the opinion that a lot of people *shouldn't* own or operate machinery as it's abuse of finely engineered equipment.

I have a Massey Ferguson MF65 tractor. Perkins 4 cylinder diesel. I've owned it since 1988 and it was far from new when I bought it.

Recently it needed a new battery then after 2 years of sitting unused, it fired right up and ran fine. Amazing what regular oil and filter changes can do for an 'unreliable engine'.

FKT

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On 9/24/2020 at 9:21 AM, Fah Kiew Tu said:

................

Yes this is ridiculous paranoid overkill. But I don't worry about dirty fuel or a failure of my fuel lift pump.

FKT

 

IMG_1470.jpeg

A clear case of filter fetishism !

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9 hours ago, dylan winter said:

Engines are boring noisy things

 

 

You'd get lynched saying that to a group of skippers on a fishing dock around here ! 

Working the southern ocean swells, along a hostile lee shore, away from prompt rescue services, you look to the engine to keep you alive. And they are pampered. They love the 6LX's

Usually the first thing they want to know as you pull alongside them in a remote part of the world is what make of engine is burbling away so nicely.

I would have thought your cruising range dictated a good reliable inboard. (I'm told you cruise North of John O' Groats !)

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I have a MD2030C in my boat. It was probably a bit neglected and underused over the two or three years prior to my buying it up in the Bay area. So I had the tank inspected, the filters changed, serviced it and ran it for a few hours, then changed filters again before heading south to San Diego. That engine ran like a champ during a series of El Nino driven southerlies on the nose for four days. I've done the oil changes, filters, strainers and impellers myself every year since (3) and it's given me great service. (I'm knocking on wood at the moment) Someone in another thread wrote that, long before Volvo and Perkins put their brands on it, this engine began as an agricultural pump motor in Japan. I guess Japanese rice farmers aren't keen on replacing pump motors any more than sailors want to replace auxiliaries. So, there's reason for Dylan to hope for many years of reliable propulsion from his.

Now, the prices for parts are an effing insult but, since this is the same motor used for a wide variety of purposes in agriculture and construction, you can get the same parts for significantly less cost if you shop the industrial, automotive and agricultural supply sources. There's a chart somewhere that I found once on the web that has all the crossovers and equivalents. Google it and save a bundle.

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2 hours ago, MikeJohns said:

A clear case of filter fetishism !

Nothing wrong with that until it starts to hurt others...

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13 hours ago, OPAL said:

Great to see you got the Fisher, always handy to have a 3rd power option.

Outboard Auxiliary (1).jpg

Outboard Auxiliary (3).jpg

They are old boats

Even the re engined ones at my price point have old units

Parts of the UK are rank with lobster pots.... plus bags for life and polypropylene fishing gear.

Sailing out of trouble as plan b in event of a prop wrap or engine crap out is not likely in all but the most benign sailing conditions

So a single pot long shaft on the stern is cheap and sensible and should save me the humiliation of being towed into harbour

On the centaur

26 foot and 4 tons

The tohatsu  got her going at 4.5 mph in flat wa5er

the Fisher is 25 feet and 4.5 tons so the outboard is a good plan b

D

Ps 50mph from the north

Rocky, squeaky, flappy night in blyth

 

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58 minutes ago, dylan winter said:

They are old boats

Even the re engined ones at my price point have old units

Parts of the UK are rank with lobster pots.... plus bags for life and polypropylene fishing gear.

Sailing out of trouble as plan b in event of a prop wrap or engine crap out is not likely in all but the most benign sailing conditions

So a single pot long shaft on the stern is cheap and sensible and should save me the humiliation of being towed into harbour

On the centaur

26 foot and 4 tons

The tohatsu  got her going at 4.5 mph in flat wa5er

the Fisher is 25 feet and 4.5 tons so the outboard is a good plan b

D

Ps 50mph from the north

Rocky, squeaky, flappy night in blyth

 

50? Nasty

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13 hours ago, Fah Kiew Tu said:

Probably half the explanation. The other half being a complete unwillingness to learn & practice quite simple basic maintenance and then blaming the engine for the quite predictable result. I'm of the opinion that a lot of people *shouldn't* own or operate machinery as it's abuse of finely engineered equipment.

I have a Massey Ferguson MF65 tractor. Perkins 4 cylinder diesel. I've owned it since 1988 and it was far from new when I bought it.

Recently it needed a new battery then after 2 years of sitting unused, it fired right up and ran fine. Amazing what regular oil and filter changes can do for an 'unreliable engine'.

FKT

Redundancy is far better IMHO, by basic maintenance I mean what the manufacturer tells you to do in the manual and that's not enough to keep a 15 years old marine engine 100% reliable.
Sure you can do proper preventive maintenance like you would do in the industry, here many people in charge of this are ex marine mechanics... but for an amateur that's beyond the knowledge of most of us. I do it for my bycicles, but that means stripping the frame bare once a year plus monthly checkup, that is alright for a simple mechanism like a push bike but for a diesel engine, it becomes a new hobby...

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18 hours ago, dylan winter said:

The RNYC shares a dock with fishing boats and wind farm boats

 

Their  clubhouse is a wooden light ship

 

Interesting range of yachts

 

No mobos

 

 

 

Interesting to see that a penduick 600 made it this far North!

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12 minutes ago, Panoramix said:

Redundancy is far better IMHO, by basic maintenance I mean what the manufacturer tells you to do in the manual and that's not enough to keep a 15 years old marine engine 100% reliable.
Sure you can do proper preventive maintenance like you would do in the industry, here many people in charge of this are ex marine mechanics... but for an amateur that's beyond the knowledge of most of us. I do it for my bycicles, but that means stripping the frame bare once a year plus monthly checkup, that is alright for a simple mechanism like a push bike but for a diesel engine, it becomes a new hobby...

Bullshit. You keep saying this as though it's true and I have no doubt that it is in your case. Lack of reliability becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy when you're too scared of a thing to understand how it works and to maintain it properly.

Diesels are easy to maintain and incredibly reliable if you do. Give them clean fuel and fresh oil at least yearly and they'll take care of you forever. Hell, Yanmar doesn't even require an impeller change on mine but once every 1000 hours or 4 years, whichever comes first. 

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I'm hoping this is true for my Perkins.

I rebuilt it 7 years ago by a top-end shop as2.5k hrs.  Replaced all - all - the supporting equipment. The thing gets tip-top service annually and I've maybe put 2-300hrs on it. I had some bad initially with starter motors, but we're past that now. Pre-heater (which is a wild system of dripping fire) needed work. But this year I'm bummed it seems there is an issue with fuel injection pump - that costs like 1/3 a motor to pull and replace. 

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22 minutes ago, Elegua said:

I'm hoping this is true for my Perkins.

I rebuilt it 7 years ago by a top-end shop as2.5k hrs.  Replaced all - all - the supporting equipment. The thing gets tip-top service annually and I've maybe put 2-300hrs on it. I had some bad initially with starter motors, but we're past that now. Pre-heater (which is a wild system of dripping fire) needed work. But this year I'm bummed it seems there is an issue with fuel injection pump - that costs like 1/3 a motor to pull and replace. 

Was the FI pump replaced when the motor was rebuilt?

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2 hours ago, IStream said:

Bullshit. You keep saying this as though it's true and I have no doubt that it is in your case. Lack of reliability becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy when you're too scared of a thing to understand how it works and to maintain it properly.

Diesels are easy to maintain and incredibly reliable if you do. Give them clean fuel and fresh oil at least yearly and they'll take care of you forever. Hell, Yanmar doesn't even require an impeller change on mine but once every 1000 hours or 4 years, whichever comes first. 

You are winning me over .  Im thinking a diesel in my 26 footer (Contessa 26..Folkboat clone) might be a good addition should I do serious cruising as opposed to my outboard....feather or folding prop for minimal drag....however, it is less the engine and more the thru hulls that put the willies up me....I currently have no holes below the waterline and it does give me a sense of calm,....however, I guess if you are an idiot and don't get your thru hulls installed correctly, nor maintain them, then they are a ticket to a sunk boat.

Here is my current petrol storage for my outboard (first pic is during rebuild, 2nd pic finished job).  All vented , and those rectangular cutouts all now filled in. No way for leakage into boat.  
Could I turn those petrol lockers into a fuel tank?  I'd also have to cut out the cockpit floor and install a watertight hatch on the floor so that I have full engine access....a lot of work and money all round...but....I'm thinking about it.

petrolblockers.jpg

Screen_Shot_2020-09-26_at_4_01.55_AM.png

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44 minutes ago, IStream said:

Was the FI pump replaced when the motor was rebuilt?

Just re-built. 

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34 minutes ago, JRC026 said:

You are winning me over .  Im thinking a diesel in my 26 footer (Contessa 26..Folkboat clone) might be a good addition should I do serious cruising as opposed to my outboard....feather or folding prop for minimal drag....however, it is less the engine and more the thru hulls that put the willies up me....I currently have no holes below the waterline and it does give me a sense of calm,....however, I guess if you are an idiot and don't get your thru hulls installed correctly, nor maintain them, then they are a ticket to a sunk boat.

Here is my current petrol storage for my outboard (first pic is during rebuild, 2nd pic finished job).  All vented , and those rectangular cutouts all now filled in. No way for leakage into boat.  
Could I turn those petrol lockers into a fuel tank?  I'd also have to cut out the cockpit floor and install a watertight hatch on the floor so that I have full engine access....a lot of work and money all round...but....I'm thinking about it.

petrolblockers.jpg

Screen_Shot_2020-09-26_at_4_01.55_AM.png

Whoa, check out that companionway hatch.  A normal hatch instead of washboards. I'm really liking your boat.

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37 minutes ago, Kris Cringle said:

What is the problem with the injection pump? Is it a Bosch pump? 

 

CAV or Delphi hydraulically regulated pump.  

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2 hours ago, IStream said:
2 hours ago, Panoramix said:

Redundancy is far better IMHO, by basic maintenance I mean what the manufacturer tells you to do in the manual and that's not enough to keep a 15 years old marine engine 100% reliable.
Sure you can do proper preventive maintenance like you would do in the industry, here many people in charge of this are ex marine mechanics... but for an amateur that's beyond the knowledge of most of us. I do it for my bycicles, but that means stripping the frame bare once a year plus monthly checkup, that is alright for a simple mechanism like a push bike but for a diesel engine, it becomes a new hobby...

Bullshit. You keep saying this as though it's true and I have no doubt that it is in your case. Lack of reliability becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy when you're too scared of a thing to understand how it works and to maintain it properly.

Diesels are easy to maintain and incredibly reliable if you do. Give them clean fuel and fresh oil at least yearly and they'll take care of you forever. Hell, Yanmar doesn't even require an impeller change on mine but once every 1000 hours or 4 years, whichever comes first. 

I like a lot of Pano's thinking but it doesn't take an expert mechanic to maintain a diesel in top, totally reliable, shape.

To run, a diesel only needs

air (that's easy, right),

fuel (should be easy but often is not),

& compression (if lacking somehow, this is the only one that's difficult to fix).

If it's assembled properly at the factory, which they DO have expert mechanics taking great pains to accomplish, there is no reason why a diesel should have a mechanical (compression) problem for several thousand hours. If it's fucked up by hoof-handed dolts, that interval could be less. There are a lot of people around who are miserably incompetent mechanics yet seem to make a living at it. One of my favorite lines from recent literature, "guys who call themselves marine or diesel mechanics but are incapable of screwing the tops on their cheap whiskey bottles without cross-threading it."

All that said, some engines just seem to be plagued with persnickety irregular problems. Drives me crazy, for example I seem to have a run of bad luck with fucking battery chargers.

FB- Doug

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That much petrol turns the boat into a floating bomb.  My old First Class 8 was the same, Gallons of the stuff yet could only motor half way across the English Channel.

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11 hours ago, dylan winter said:

Sailing out of trouble as plan b in event of a prop wrap or engine crap out is not likely in all but the most benign sailing conditions

Are you saying those things don't even sail well enough to beat off a lee shore?

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12 minutes ago, SloopJonB said:

Are you saying those things don't even sail well enough to beat off a lee shore?

Here onthe East  Coast lee shores are rare

Maybe with 6hp whizzing

away on transom I might stand a  chance

However, this is blyth today

 

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On 9/23/2020 at 7:07 AM, Ajax said:

I did it by removing my fuel tank level sender and snapping photos with my phone camera pressed against the opening. I was able to cran the camera around several different angles for a complete view of the tank.

You can probably buy a cheap, endo cam that connects to your phone on Amazon now.

Yes.  Mine was 30 bucks.  Saved me a ton of worrying about rot around windows in the house.  Drill a hole and bob's your uncle...

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Looked through my pictures from last month's trip to the San Juan Islands and found this:

PvbLdWm.jpg

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Fantastic Dylan, enjoy the comfort.  We have decided to love the boat we have as it fits our PNW USA cruising needs perfectly, paid for and almost everything works.  If everything worked it wouldn't be a boat.

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On 9/25/2020 at 12:41 PM, MikeJohns said:

A clear case of filter fetishism !

A clear case of idiocy.

The dreaded bug resides in the bottom of fuel tanks.

Accomodate a drainable sump or low point and forget the filter fetish and cost.

679EA1BE-5090-468D-9D38-A1EC2E2D2E1D.thumb.jpeg.9a15ca1493e5531cebf6e8d2018fc4ce.jpeg

 

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On 9/25/2020 at 9:00 PM, SloopJonB said:

Are you saying those things don't even sail well enough to beat off a lee shore?

With the breeze very light, or up and some sea running that would be correct. So perhaps 2 engines it's a sensible precaution.

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4 hours ago, Panope said:

Looked through my pictures from last month's trip to the San Juan Islands and found this:

PvbLdWm.jpg

aha

there  appears to wind but he is motoring - which is a bad sign

 

however, mine will be much faster than his - I will be towing a small plastic clinker dinghy....so  much less drag

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2 hours ago, dylan winter said:

aha

there  appears to wind but he is motoring - which is a bad sign

 

however, mine will be much faster than his - I will be towing a small plastic clinker dinghy....so  much less drag

That's not wind Dylan - that's ripples in the water caused by the notorious seismic activity so prevalent on the left coast...

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3 hours ago, Priscilla said:

A clear case of idiocy.

The dreaded bug resides in the bottom of fuel tanks.

Accomodate a drainable sump or low point and forget the filter fetish and cost.

Yeah thanks for that.

Of course you overlook the minor detail that my day tank actually *has* a small sump/low point in it.

And guess where the fuel gets sucked from on its way to the filters on the engine delivery line? Yep, that very same sump. So any crap that gets that far - goes through the filters. And the fuel only got as far as the day tank by - wait for it - going through the other pair of filters thereby minimising the chances of crap getting INTO the day tank in the first place.

And the sump can be drained.

Any other suggestions for improvements? I'm always interested in how fuel system reliability can be improved. So far you've just called me an idiot for exceeding what you specify. I can live with that.

FKT

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9 hours ago, Priscilla said:

A clear case of idiocy.

The dreaded bug resides in the bottom of fuel tanks.

Accomodate a drainable sump or low point and forget the filter fetish and cost.

679EA1BE-5090-468D-9D38-A1EC2E2D2E1D.thumb.jpeg.9a15ca1493e5531cebf6e8d2018fc4ce.jpeg

 

Do you have to pull the engine to get at it?

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8 hours ago, Fah Kiew Tu said:

Yeah thanks for that.

Of course you overlook the minor detail that my day tank actually *has* a small sump/low point in it.

And guess where the fuel gets sucked from on its way to the filters on the engine delivery line? Yep, that very same sump. So any crap that gets that far - goes through the filters. And the fuel only got as far as the day tank by - wait for it - going through the other pair of filters thereby minimising the chances of crap getting INTO the day tank in the first place.

And the sump can be drained.

Any other suggestions for improvements? I'm always interested in how fuel system reliability can be improved. So far you've just called me an idiot for exceeding what you specify. I can live with that.

FKT

Crikey don’t leap out of your fur suit Fah , just to confirm you bolted on a whole shop full of filters to see off bug being sucked into the fuel supply line directly from a drainable day tank sump.

Can you supply some clearer pics of your set up.

 

 

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2 hours ago, Priscilla said:

Cockpit sole hatch.

558B9153-4BE7-4F12-98F9-EE1DE0339F34.thumb.jpeg.fb2efd8bdb3d1c125a90a389f7d051f1.jpeg

Very, very nice. There's only one problem...

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1 minute ago, dylan winter said:

too  clean?

Possibly, but I was referring to the transmission.

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Just now, IStream said:

Possibly, but I was referring to the transmission.

I sometimes forget that this is an american forum

should have used a purple font

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14 hours ago, Priscilla said:

A clear case of idiocy.

The dreaded bug resides in the bottom of fuel tanks.

Accomodate a drainable sump or low point and forget the filter fetish and cost.

 

Lots of other shit can contaminate diesel besides bugs that live at the oil-water interface. Shit that gets stirred up in a seaway. And you can pick the micron size you want. And most have a clear bowl with a drain so you can see the water, unlike a tank sump where you actually have to drain some off to check. I'll trust my filters thunkyaverymutch.

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25 minutes ago, dylan winter said:

I sometimes forget that this is an american forum

should have used a purple font

My fault. I forgot that the author of the remark was British, which implies sarcasm by default. 

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My Adams tank has a sump drain, it works well if you use it when the boat has been sitting for a few days.
 

Should be a standard for all boat diesel tanks.

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7 minutes ago, IStream said:

My fault. I forgot that the author of the remark was British, which implies sarcasm by default. 

As opposed to aussies, who just piss on you all from a great height...

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13 minutes ago, IStream said:

My fault. I forgot that the author of the remark was British, which implies sarcasm by default. 

oh really!

sarcastic are we?

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1 hour ago, IStream said:

Very, very nice. There's only one problem...

thats where "blue tooth" steps in, makes the prop just want to spin

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3 minutes ago, dylan winter said:

it is called a morphic resonance drive

no wearing parts

D

so a bit like sculling without the oar ?

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5 minutes ago, 167149 said:

so a bit like sculling without the oar ?

Kinda. It's a virtual drive.

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2 hours ago, dylan winter said:

oh really!

sarcastic are we?

No-one, absolutely no-one can do arch or snotty condescension like a Brit with a good accent. ;)

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1 hour ago, dylan winter said:

it is called a morphic resonance drive

no wearing parts

D

Is that related to the magnetohydrodynamic drive?

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1 hour ago, SloopJonB said:

Is that related to the magnetohydrodynamic drive?

Da, tovarishch.

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3 hours ago, IStream said:

Da, tovarishch.

in other words....."blew toof"

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4 hours ago, SloopJonB said:

Is that related to the magnetohydrodynamic drive?

the infinite probability drive

gonna fit one to my fisher now I understand how they work

they cost 42 though

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3 hours ago, dylan winter said:

the infinite probability drive

gonna fit one to my fisher now I understand how they work

they cost 42 though

That's because getting enough unobtanium is a right bitch, and then you have to machine it inside a chamber flooded with liquid helium else the magic smoke escapes.

FKT

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11 hours ago, dylan winter said:

oh really!

sarcastic are we?

When I was working on your side of the channel, the possibly best compliment I received on my ability to blend was along these lines.

"Beware soon the Frenchman will outdo us on the sarcasm front" :D

I have to admit that I never really managed to outdo them playing silly words bingo during meetings.

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