IStream

Dylan's New Boat Anarchy

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2 hours ago, Jim in Halifax said:

The real deal is only US$240 - why buy a Chinese knock-off? It will last a lifetime.

They are around $A500 down here, dunno what they cost in the UK...

I took out the real one, it was leaking air, got a rebuild kit and refurbed it, it still leaks air.  It’s in a locker on the boat, the copies don’t leak air.

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12 hours ago, Kris Cringle said:

Impressive! 4 days running to clog the filter. Hmmm,... Might be worth a try to buy a few replacement filters and carry on until you're done for the season. Was it a new filter to start your ownership? 

It was

So the first one 

Which was still working had crystalline black crud on it

The second one I removed at sea had the usual black wet sludge

 

D

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15 hours ago, IStream said:

I saw in your video above that you removed the whale decals. Is she still the Whale or has she become the Sea Rover or equivalent?

dunno

i will wait for a bit to see of she names herself

the name Bonsu has to go

it is the name of an african expansionist king, a whale in swahili (not likely) and a bit of urban chat

https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=bonsu

when spoken over the radio is sounds like Bonne Sue

I had to do a lot of radio stuff as I needed to talk to the fish dock control every time I left and also to the Humber traffic control when out on the humber

so it has to be simple enough not to have to spell it out to the poor blokes looking after both ships and small  boats on the same bit of estuary in the dark

D

 

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16 hours ago, IStream said:

I saw in your video above that you removed the whale decals. Is she still the Whale or has she become the Sea Rover or equivalent?

Continuing the theme of a sea-going Landrover, how about

“Dylan’s Disco”?(very)

You then have an excuse to install a dancing pole down below, you could nick one off a nearby Halberg-Rassy.

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3 hours ago, dylan winter said:

I had to do a lot of radio stuff as I needed to talk to the fish dock control every time I left and also to the Humber traffic control when out on the humber

so it has to be simple enough not to have to spell it out to the poor blokes looking after both ships and small  boats on the same bit of estuary in the dark

@dylan winter, there is an obvious choice her.  A two syllable name, each with hard endings to make it nice and clear in any language.  A name which is easily recognised, yet is very unlikely to be used by another boat.

Boris.

Obviously, you can't use this name if the whale lacks the appropriate characteristics, such as forgetting how many children it has.  

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I think she's already named herself. Rover.

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so

I did three day hops from Blyth to Hartlepool 36 miles

 

see film up thread

 

day-1-blyth-to-hartlepool-36-miles.jpg

 

hartlepool to scarborough  46 miles

 

see film up thread

leg-2-46-miles.jpg

 

then scarborough to Grimsby fish dock 69 miles

leg-3-69-miles.jpg

I spent  three days in Grimsby fish dock waiting for the north easterly to pack it in

 

it used to be the worlds largest fish dock

 

fishdock1.jpg

 

now it is home to ten fishing boats, ten wind farm boats , a  couple of survey vessels and the 100 berth marina that is the Humber Cruising association

60093fadad67c90c9beac9a14d7d6f800268e8c7

the rate for a week for the fisher was £80 with lekkie

if I joined the club it would cost be under £1000 a year

however, just outside the dock gates is the Humber

The final leg from Grimsby to the deben is 165 miles

leg-4-166-miles.jpg

intially I had intended to break the journey up by going down to fosdyke in the wash and then into wells - but the north easterly was making both untenable

in the end I decided to knuckle down to it and do my longest solo overnight through a busy place

first thought to get out of the fish dock

the fish dock has gates but for two hours either side of high tide it is free flow

unless it is a  spring tide - in which case it is closed for an hour each side of high tide and open for the second hour after or the first hour before.

 

It was spring tides

needless to say getting out into the Humber is an intimidating faff

it is dark, I do not know my way around, the humber is ebbing at five knots and there are vessels in a hurry all over the shop

 

 

more to come .......

 

 

 

 

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the tide slooshed me out down the humber - it was running at about four knots giving me nine sog

but there was a lot of big traffic around

the humber runs at high speed - the navigation marks are shaped like tug boats

there were flashing lightd everywhere

it was not very nice

 

however, at least with daylight I could see where I was

 

clever people will realise that one of the ships is a  fort

not an auspicious start to a solo overnight

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once out of the humber traffic bottleneck I settled down to a long motorsail across the top of the wash

 

by now  the tide was against and across me

 

 

the boat motorsailed very well - I would guess at 5 knots through the water. The three sails and long keel kept her tracking nicely even under engine power. The noisy wheel pilot was getting to me, so I switched it off and centred the tiller.

 

The mainn engine thrummed beneath my feet

 

but I could still hear radio 4 quite clearly - no signal  on ee though

 

low level east anglian topography all but gone into the greyness

 

squalls made the windfarms come and go

 

motor sailing well against a foulish tide

 

then came the night........

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this was the longest solo night of my sailing life

It got dark at about 6.30 and would not be light before 12 hours had passed.

 

This was madness

 

 

At the time I was riding the tide along the Cromer shore - three knots for sure - maybe more - but through a minefield of really shitly marked crab pot gear

 

no moon at all

cromer is famous for crab sandwhiches

but there is a price to pay for all the aquatic spider people like to eat

the naked fear of nightime sailors

so to err on the side of caution I was riding close to the edge of the shipping channel between felisxtowe and Hull - lots of small container ships at high speed.

I had doused the mainsail before nightfall and had just the genoa and mizzen up

 

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Only the first and the last tide matters, the other cancel each other... ish.

Yes before anybody points it out, I know that when you sail along a South coast or North coast (especially along the English channel) there is a bit of a "doppler effect" which makes going East easier and also in general when you are clever you end up in low current areas when it is against you.

But when it is against me, I try to think that they cancel each others in pairs, it is good for morale, especially on a slow boat as reading 1.5kts SOG when you are doing 4 or 5 is bad for you.

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25 minutes ago, Panoramix said:

Only the first and the last tide matters, the other cancel each other... ish.

Yes before anybody points it out, I know that when you sail along a South coast or North coast (especially along the English channel) there is a bit of a "doppler effect" which makes going East easier and also in general when you are clever you end up in low current areas when it is against you.

But when it is against me, I try to think that they cancel each others in pairs, it is good for morale, especially on a slow boat as reading 1.5kts SOG when you are doing 4 or 5 is bad for you.

Not sure that is true around my slice of East anglia

Tides run at different speeds in different places

Different distances from shores and deeps

There are also overalls to consider

 

A peril in bad weather but a speed boost in light winds

 

So playing the tides is is all part of the game

But there are times when you have to passively suck it up

 

D

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Dylan, you must be in hog heaven with inside steering, cabin heat, etc, etc.  Congrats on stepping up to luxury while staying small.  Great solution.

 

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13 minutes ago, Veeger said:

Dylan, you must be in hog heaven with inside steering, cabin heat, etc, etc.  Congrats on stepping up to luxury while staying small.  Great solution.

 

There is a downside

The cockpit sucks

Like sailing from behind a shed

 

a tiller extension will help a bit

However I intend to tow my little sailing tender for an occasional fix

the boat is good for travelling in damp, tough places

D

 

 

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Ah, well, yes.... there is always a downside.  But,  underway, behind glass, warm and dry ,most often compensates for many things...

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1 minute ago, European Bloke said:

Hadn't realised you ran the engine so much. On a reach in 12-15 knots how fast do you think she goes through the water?

I am going to say 4 knots sans engine and 5.5 with engine on low revs

under normal ktl travelling speed the 4 knots is fine

I would kick back and enjoy the pace

 

but I had tidal gates to hit if I was not going to subject myself to a second night or missing the tide over the deben bar

 

D

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8 minutes ago, dylan winter said:

I am going to say 4 knots sans engine and 5.5 with engine on low revs

under normal ktl travelling speed the 4 knots is fine

I would kick back and enjoy the pace

 

but I had tidal gates to hit if I was not going to subject myself to a second night or missing the tide over the deben bar

 

D

You might get that 1 knot by going to a feathering prop! (super silly idea) Maybe there's a way to index your shaft, like a magic marker to the shaft, that would at least have the propellor aligned with the keel.

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5 minutes ago, Raz'r said:

You might get that 1 knot by going to a feathering prop! (super silly idea) Maybe there's a way to index your shaft, like a magic marker to the shaft, that would at least have the propellor aligned with the keel.

Three bladed prop

I will get rid of the radar dome

But ultimately it is a motorsailor

however, the outboard on tickler got me some more speed

My plan is to stick an electric outboard on the back

Silently raise the speed to that of a centaur

nothing special but better than without

D

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3 hours ago, dylan winter said:

Three bladed prop

I will get rid of the radar dome

But ultimately it is a motorsailor

however, the outboard on tickler got me some more speed

My plan is to stick an electric outboard on the back

Silently raise the speed to that of a centaur

nothing special but better than without

D

Got a 3 bladed Autostream prop on my boat. Works really well but not cheap.

We're still learning how to sail with this rig. Got up to 6.5 knots SOG under the jib & foresail now, I'm happy with that. Upwind sucks but that's why I have the engine and big feathering prop.

That Fisher looks like a really nice boat for around these parts too.

FKT

Edited by Fah Kiew Tu
typo

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You will probably find a sweet spot motor sailing that uses almost no fuel and gets you along at a decent pace, on our old ketch 5 to 5.5 was it. I would be happy averaging 4.5 to 5.5 on a Fisher.  You could do better in big wind or redlining the engine but why.  The shortened sail motor combo once found will usually cover a pretty wide wind range. On the nose or against a tide you are screwed though.. but that's the nature of the beast.  We have sailed backwards watching a house on Vancouver island for a full day in the old boat. 

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3 hours ago, SASSAFRASS said:

You will probably find a sweet spot motor sailing that uses almost no fuel and gets you along at a decent pace, on our old ketch 5 to 5.5 was it. I would be happy averaging 4.5 to 5.5 on a Fisher.  You could do better in big wind or redlining the engine but why.  The shortened sail motor combo once found will usually cover a pretty wide wind range. On the nose or against a tide you are screwed though.. but that's the nature of the beast.  We have sailed backwards watching a house on Vancouver island for a full day in the old boat. 

Hard on the engine. I'd rather go a knot slower with the engine off, or a couple of knots faster with the engine pulling decent RPM's.

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1 hour ago, Ishmael said:

Hard on the engine. I'd rather go a knot slower with the engine off, or a couple of knots faster with the engine pulling decent RPM's.

Is that really hard on an engine?

D

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Diesels like to work - they don't like running at low RPM's.

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10 hours ago, dylan winter said:

 

“I went outside to put the main up.”

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26 minutes ago, European Bloke said:

I can see the appeal of electric in this application. The constant banging of a small diesel would get tiring.

I am going to experiment

 

The snag with sailing against a 4 knot tide at 3 knots is that you only make 1 knot sog

I was really impressed with the way the 6hp tohatsu ticking away on the back at a quarter revs speeded up the rate of progress

Adding an extra 1.5 knots   

That gave me an sog of 2.5 knots as opposed to 1

More than doubling the sog

 

I have a 24 volt trolling motor so I will try that on the back

 

It should be good for my low speed drifts up unfamiliar rivers

 

Having said that I could hardly hear the out board

It was at lowish revs and well down below the top of the transom

 

In the wheel House with the outboard running is was barely audible

 

I have a winter to get to know the boat and how to improve passage times

 

I was a bit nervous  coming over the deben bar with so few hp on the back but the  bar was being a pushy cat

If the bar had been bad I would have had to sail down to the Orwell which is an all weather entrance, picked up a mooring and waited for better weather

 

D

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37 minutes ago, European Bloke said:

I can see the appeal of electric in this application. The constant banging of a small diesel would get tiring.

If you only want to go 10 nautical miles before plugging in, sure.

How many times does it have to be said that battery-electric drive does *NOT* work for boats except in some seriously limited use-cases?

FFS, do the math. Nobody likes listening to a diesel banging away but if you want to push on against a head wind and/or foul tide, guess what - the diesel is your friend. The BEV drive quietly - stops...

FKT

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16 minutes ago, Fah Kiew Tu said:

If you only want to go 10 nautical miles before plugging in, sure.

How many times does it have to be said that battery-electric drive does *NOT* work for boats except in some seriously limited use-cases?

FFS, do the math. Nobody likes listening to a diesel banging away but if you want to push on against a head wind and/or foul tide, guess what - the diesel is your friend. The BEV drive quietly - stops...

FKT

I am not throwing out the diesel

Just exploring ways of not using it all the time

 

d

Ps you are too passionate  and judgemental

   FFS

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5 hours ago, Ishmael said:

Hard on the engine. I'd rather go a knot slower with the engine off, or a couple of knots faster with the engine pulling decent RPM's.

Hence the term sweet spot... Yes idling a diesel around all day isn't great, carbon buildup cylinder glazing etc.  However fuel consumption is a point of load and efficiency not linear to revolutions. Look at the fuel consumption curve on any engine, there is a pretty steep rise at the top 20%.  Somewhere between there and idle isn't going to hurt a engine. We can usually use just under a gallon a hr making 6.5 knots on our current boat, 100hp engine.  On most boats like this you can make enough apparent wind without pushing the shit out of the engine or flogging around trying to sail in light air.  Obviously if there is wind to move you at the same speed you shut it down, but the hull speed average is probably best once that sweet spot is found.  Everyone has their own preferences though.

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11 minutes ago, SASSAFRASS said:

Hence the term sweet spot... Yes idling a diesel around all day isn't great, carbon buildup cylinder glazing etc.  However fuel consumption is a point of load and efficiency not linear to revolutions. Look at the fuel consumption curve on any engine, there is a pretty steep rise at the top 20%.  Somewhere between there and idle isn't going to hurt a engine. We can usually use just under a gallon a hr making 6.5 knots on our current boat, 100hp engine.  On most boats like this you can make enough apparent wind without pushing the shit out of the engine or flogging around trying to sail in light air.  Obviously if there is wind to move you at the same speed you shut it down, but the hull speed average is probably best once that sweet spot is found.  Everyone has their own preferences though.

Is that a 3.75 litre gallon or a 4.55 litre gallon?

Cheers,

              W.

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American gallons my God! Too funny, I still am trying to convert constantly as it would appear no one else uses the poor US gallon or deg F but in my head its all gallons from setting the boat up.  Even though my entire professional career has been mostly metric tons liters bar Celsius etc. Do they still sell fuel in UK gallons over there or is it all litre?

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Cubic frogspawn.

Once they stop using imperial, the empire disappears in a puff of smoke, doncha know, Old Boy?

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13 minutes ago, SASSAFRASS said:

American gallons my God! Too funny, I still am trying to convert constantly as it would appear no one else uses the poor US gallon or deg F but in my head its all gallons from setting the boat up.  Even though my entire professional career has been mostly metric tons liters bar Celsius etc. Do they still sell fuel in UK gallons over there or is it all litre?

Liberia and Myanmar still use imperial units, but I think even they have 20 fl oz (4.55l) gallons.

 Fuel is measured in litres but land distance is miles and most people probably still think in miles per gallon for their car... boats more likely litres per hour, though,  as the numbers work better... expect there are still quite a few old salts thinking in gallons but dying off steadily....

Cheers, 

               W.

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I spent most of my working life around loud machinery, so loud engines are distasteful to m personally. But the rumble of small diesel can be pleasant... even lulling.

Coking and glazing are problems of running at low temp, not low RPM or low load. I would say, for every engine I've heard much about, if you push it up  to 15~20% of it's RPM range (because with boats there is almost a locked correlation between RPM and load) that you'll be in fine shape, as long as the thermostat is working properly.

FB- Doug

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5 hours ago, European Bloke said:

I can see the appeal of electric in this application. The constant banging of a small diesel would get tiring.

Problem is, this boat is made to motor long distances/most of the time.  That kind of battery capacity is expensive and complex.

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7 minutes ago, Steam Flyer said:

I spent most of my working life around loud machinery, so loud engines are distasteful to m personally. But the rumble of small diesel can be pleasant... even lulling.

Coking and glazing are problems of running at low temp, not low RPM or low load. I would say, for every engine I've heard much about, if you push it up  to 15~20% of it's RPM range (because with boats there is almost a locked correlation between RPM and load) that you'll be in fine shape, as long as the thermostat is working properly.

FB- Doug

The low temp usually is a product of low rpm and or load...hence the coking and glazing.  The battery charging on the hook is probably the absolute worse thing, even run up a bit the engine is still not doing a whole lot.  Was  thinking about it after the fact and for a northern climate boat block temp is a consideration, most seawater applications or marinized things use a higher SW temp for sizing heat exchangers etc so there is some point on the bottom end where you will be barely putting enough heat in. But I would guess it doesn't take a whole lot to get above that.  

My original point stands it's worth playing around with if you are efficiency minded or slightly OCD...

Enough thread drift... didn't intend on turning it into a engine thread, go back to sailing.

 

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2 minutes ago, SASSAFRASS said:

....

Enough thread drift... didn't intend on turning it into a engine thread, go back to sailing.

 

 

Apologies. Definitely don't want to turn this into an engine thread.

I went sailing yesterday!

FB- Doug

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31 minutes ago, WGWarburton said:

Liberia and Myanmar still use imperial units, but I think even they have 20 160 fl oz (4.55l) gallons.

 Fuel is measured in litres but land distance is miles and most people probably still think in miles per gallon for their car... boats more likely litres per hour, though,  as the numbers work better... expect there are still quite a few old salts thinking in gallons but dying off steadily....

Cheers, 

               W.

FIFY. 20 ounces is an Imperial pint!

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27 minutes ago, Steam Flyer said:

I spent most of my working life around loud machinery, so loud engines are distasteful to m personally. But the rumble of small diesel can be pleasant... even lulling.

Coking and glazing are problems of running at low temp, not low RPM or low load. I would say, for every engine I've heard much about, if you push it up  to 15~20% of it's RPM range (because with boats there is almost a locked correlation between RPM and load) that you'll be in fine shape, as long as the thermostat is working properly.

FB- Doug

The sailing forum mantra, "never ever run your engine at less than 80% load" proves to be false for me if only for watching large diesel engines sit at idle for hours during the day as excavators etc., endless dump and transport trucks, etc. etc., sit at idle at construction sites or making deliveries, for hours and hours and hours. Surely these mechananics would have discovered this, if they only sailed. 

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3 minutes ago, Steam Flyer said:

 

Apologies. Definitely don't want to turn this into an engine thread.

I went sailing yesterday!

FB- Doug

The only sailing I've done lately is in the dingy trying to hold on to the boat painting the hull so you are way better off than me haha!

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4 minutes ago, Jim in Halifax said:

FIFY. 20 ounces is an Imperial pint!

Umm, yeah: so with eight pints to a gallon (everywhere?), a US gallon that's made up from 16 fl oz pints is ~3.75l and an imperial gallon (20 oz pints)  is ~4.55l...

 Cheers,

               W.

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6 hours ago, dylan winter said:

I am going to experiment

 

The snag with sailing against a 4 knot tide at 3 knots is that you only make 1 knot sog

I was really impressed with the way the 6hp tohatsu ticking away on the back at a quarter revs speeded up the rate of progress

Adding an extra 1.5 knots   

That gave me an sog of 2.5 knots as opposed to 1

More than doubling the sog

 

I have a 24 volt trolling motor so I will try that on the back

 

It should be good for my low speed drifts up unfamiliar rivers

 

Having said that I could hardly hear the out board

It was at lowish revs and well down below the top of the transom

 

In the wheel House with the outboard running is was barely audible

 

I have a winter to get to know the boat and how to improve passage times

 

I was a bit nervous  coming over the deben bar with so few hp on the back but the  bar was being a pushy cat

If the bar had been bad I would have had to sail down to the Orwell which is an all weather entrance, picked up a mooring and waited for better weather

 

D

It sounds like the outboard is a good match.  Low rpm, quiet but adds a nice boost to sail power.  Outboards don’t even have the problems diesels are purported to have at low loads.  To Kris’ point, I think the usual knock on low rpms operations on boats likely has more to do with short run times where the engine never gets up in temperature, combined with poor maintenance, water condensation and other abuses.

As for electric, while solely on electric, your range is indeed pretty limited but doing the motor sailing thing at reduced rpms really extends the time available on the battery.  But for the money, it sounds like the outboard is already achieving most of what you want to do in combo mode.  True motor-while-sailing mode can be very efficient, greatly improve passage times and quite pleasant, especially vs running solely under power with a well loaded, high(er) rpms of diesel only.

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Your Volvo turned into a mooring frees up a lot of space below, for batteries. Then an extension of the roof area over the pilothouse could be panels. Assisted, sustainable, quiet - motor sailing. SA/D theory, out the window. 

I think you're ahead of the times by about 10 years, Dylan. 

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2 minutes ago, Kris Cringle said:

I think you're ahead of the times by about 10 years, Dylan. 

Don't encourage him! Next thing you know he'll be acting like a 54 yr old and he'll be badgering poor Jill to sport her bikini...;)

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I'd be interested in seeing the data on low-assist motorsailing speeds with a folding/feathering prop versus a standard prop. I wonder how much of the assist is just compensating for the drag of a standard prop. The number I always hear about going to a folder is that it adds ~1/2kt to your sailing speed.

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5 hours ago, SASSAFRASS said:

Hence the term sweet spot... Yes idling a diesel around all day isn't great, carbon buildup cylinder glazing etc.  However fuel consumption is a point of load and efficiency not linear to revolutions. Look at the fuel consumption curve on any engine, there is a pretty steep rise at the top 20%.  Somewhere between there and idle isn't going to hurt a engine. We can usually use just under a gallon a hr making 6.5 knots on our current boat, 100hp engine.  On most boats like this you can make enough apparent wind without pushing the shit out of the engine or flogging around trying to sail in light air.  Obviously if there is wind to move you at the same speed you shut it down, but the hull speed average is probably best once that sweet spot is found.  Everyone has their own preferences though.

Look up the torque peak RPM for your engine - that is where it will get its best fuel consumption.

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4 hours ago, Ajax said:
9 hours ago, European Bloke said:

I can see the appeal of electric in this application. The constant banging of a small diesel would get tiring.

Problem is, this boat is made to motor long distances/most of the time.  That kind of battery capacity is expensive and complex.

In this application I think spending some coin on soundproofing the engine would be a much better course of action.

Electric is fine for daysailers, racers etc. who only need it for docking and other short periods.

For a motorsailer like a Fisher it would be absurd.

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49 minutes ago, SloopJonB said:

In this application I think spending some coin on soundproofing the engine would be a much better course of action.

Electric is fine for daysailers, racers etc. who only need it for docking and other short periods.

For a motorsailer like a Fisher it would be absurd.

That's what I was thinking. Another inch of insulation would do wonders.

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2 hours ago, IStream said:

I'd be interested in seeing the data on low-assist motorsailing speeds with a folding/feathering prop versus a standard prop. I wonder how much of the assist is just compensating for the drag of a standard prop. The number I always hear about going to a folder is that it adds ~1/2kt to your sailing speed.

Anything aft of the beam I can attest to easy 1/2 knot on our boat, 4 blade max prop.  More so in light air we really saw a difference there.  The motor sailing thing on full keel boat is sort of macro view thing.  Anything fwd of the beam in most conditions it can be a sizable help.  We had to beat up the sea of Cortez a few years ago.  The scenerio I talked about earlier gave us several more degrees pointing and better speed over ground at minimum fuel consumption. On a hundred plus mile tack that translates into alot of miles gained.

Sloop I have found using the power curve as a baseline is a good start then playing with the practical on the boat.  I specifically went with a larger engine on our boat based on the power curve.  Weight and cost were a wash but our typical Cruising range in the larger engine was in a great spot in the power curve, pre spooling of the turbo etc.  Plus we have plenty of extra when we need to get out of the way of ourselves weather Lee shore etc.  Alot of boats are only going to make hull speed running it up pretty tight as powering budgets for a auxillary are in the easy to trim catagory. For short A to B it will probably never make a big difference but for long hauls on full keel boats it's worth playing around with different sail motor scenarios to see how it effects fuel economy trip time etc.

One of the ships I was on for years had alot of issues as load was added and added but no more power.  We made alot of headway dealing with the turbos to get more out of them, the net result was the crazy captain accusing me of messing with things because they weren't using as much fuel so surely were not getting the same power to the wheels.

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1 hour ago, Raz'r said:

That's what I was thinking. Another inch of insulation would do wonders.

It is quiet enough to listen to radio 4

There is a lot of insulation  already

 

as for electricity

I use it on the one tonne 22 footer

24 volt 100 lb thrust trolling motor

i rather like the idea of using the power of the sun to move the boat silently

And leave the stinking diesel for when I feck up with timing the deben bar

D

 

 

 

 

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The Aussie Metho stove with grill arrived yesterday

It is a wondrous thing and will be cherished

 

meanwhile

this was filmed early in the morning of the second day

I was feeling pretty groggy

 

 

 

 

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This was the tide past Orford Ness

the ever shifting shingle banks abetted by long shore drift and stiff north easters mean that the water runs fast in some places but charts only tell you where the shingle was a decade or more in the past

back to paying attention to old school bouyage

 

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2 minutes ago, olaf hart said:

Just light the stove up a couple of times at home before it goes on the boat, they have a tendency to flare but once you have a handle on it it doesn’t happen.

The trick is to open then close the valve the first time to drip metho into the preheat tray, careful not too much metho in the tray, then wait till it is almost gone before opening up the valve again, and open it slowly.

These things have been the main small boat stove here in Oz for fifty years, very reliable once you learn not to singe the deckhead,

 

 

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3 minutes ago, olaf hart said:

Just light the stove up a couple of times at home before it goes on the boat, they have a tendency to flare but once you have a handle on it it doesn’t happen.

The trick is not too much metho in the preheat tray, then wait till it is almost gone before opening up the valve again, and open it slowly.

These things have been the main small boat stove here in Oz for fifty years, very reliable once you learn not to singe the deckhead,

 

I am really looking forward to having toast and grilled sausages, bacon and steak

I like grilled vegetables as well

it will be a life enhancing part of my sailing

bless you

D

 

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It appears that the vinyl coating is missing from a small section of your lower lifeline on the port side, forward of amidships. Might want to check for corrosion in the wire there...

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Just spotted your anchor winch, we have the same one on our Adams 36, if it’s working you will learn to love it.

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9 minutes ago, olaf hart said:

Just spotted your anchor winch, we have the same one on our Adams 36, if it’s working you will learn to love it.

I have not tested it under load

however, it all seemed to work when recovering the chain in the yard.

I have never had an ancchor winch before

neither of the centaurs had them

D

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1 hour ago, dylan winter said:

I am really looking forward to having toast and grilled sausages, bacon and steak

I like grilled vegetables as well

it will be a life enhancing part of my sailing

bless you

D

 

what stove did you get?

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2 hours ago, chester said:

what stove did you get?

You weren't paying attention. Scroll all the way back to post #12...

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13 minutes ago, Jim in Halifax said:

You weren't paying attention. Scroll all the way back to post #12...

jeez, jim...bust balls much?  :D

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I spent yesterday with the wheel House floor up kneeling on the joists while messing with the bugged up fuel line
Like attempting to fix a heating boiler through a hole in the ceiling

The primary filter had the odd gobbet of black sludge spread across the surface

I changed it and the engine ran for a while and died

Opened it up

More gunge

I rowed home a beaten man

Aching and whiffing of diesel

 

 

 

 

Today I returned, changed the impellor

Just to start with a success

Then Removed the primary filter

Ran some fuel into a container and fitted a third filter

Bled the system, she fired up and ran very well for the rest of the afternoon

 

I have put a triple dose of bug dissolver into the fuel system

So far so good.

I have spare filters on board and the outboard on the back

So I will run it until it stops again

Next job is to fit a fuel pump to transfer diesel to the header for the taylor heater

Then with an engine and and a cabin heater I can get on with the winter sailing

Everything else can be done as I go along

Painting cupboards, varnishing, stripping claggy carpet tiles from the floor, re wiring

 

 

I fekkin hate fettlin

 

 

 

 

 

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40 minutes ago, dylan winter said:

 bug dissolver

 

Marine 16 is the best i have tried, as used by the RNLI.

 

 

 

 

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I wish I could get there and pump out your tank and swab it out. 

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1 hour ago, Ajax said:

I wish I could get there and pump out your tank and swab it out. 

You can take the sailor out of the Navy, but you can't take the Navy out of the saior.

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On 10/20/2020 at 9:05 PM, Jim in Halifax said:

You weren't paying attention. Scroll all the way back to post #12...

Ha ha. Good one. The stove is a Maxie methos, but that would have been too much typing for you.

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36 minutes ago, SemiSalt said:

You can take the sailor out of the Navy, but you can't take the Navy out of the saior.

FUEL tank.  Damn you guys. Lol. 

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11 minutes ago, Ajax said:

FUEL tank.  Damn you guys. Lol. 

where the hell did you go with it?  We all thought your urge to maintain the shit out of something was because of the navy training! :D

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It would still be a good idea to drain and hand clean the diesel tank if you can get your arm in to it.

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On 10/19/2020 at 9:25 AM, SloopJonB said:

Look up the torque peak RPM for your engine - that is where it will get its best fuel consumption.

Made me think of this, for some reason (question on fuel consumption for the USCG 200 tons ocean license exam).  (I never realized fuel consumption is related to the cube of speed...)

Sharpen your pencils :-)

 

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On 10/22/2020 at 12:55 PM, dylan winter said:

Marine 16 is the one ebay pushed at me

D

I always thought diesel bugs were a warm-climate thing.  I run my boat in a similar climate to yours, above 49*N latitude, have motored (mostly - little wind near-shore coastal sailing around here) to Alaska and back, and over the years, too, have never had any issues with filters clogging.  

But maybe because our fuel tank is in the keel, so fuel is typically quite cool - whereas tanks located in warmer ambient temps (I.e., not below water line, or in warmer, lower latitudes) are more prone to diesel bugs?  I’m curious - have read about them, never had an issue.  Anyone know?

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18 minutes ago, Jud - s/v Sputnik said:

I always thought diesel bugs were a warm-climate thing.  I run my boat in a similar climate to yours, above 49*N latitude, have motored (mostly - little wind near-shore coastal sailing around here) to Alaska and back, and over the years, too, have never had any issues with filters clogging.  

But maybe because our fuel tank is in the keel, so fuel is typically quite cool - whereas tanks located in warmer ambient temps (I.e., not below water line, or in warmer, lower latitudes) are more prone to diesel bugs?  I’m curious - have read about them, never had an issue.  Anyone know?

Its a common problem in the UK.
I had the same on my boat the year after I bought her, engine packed up in bouncy seas, it ended up completely clogging the fuel pick up in the tank, I had to siphon good fuel off the top & run the engine from a plastic fuel container as a 'get me home' measure.
I had already hit it with a shitload of Marine 16 and other products, the end solution was to remove the tank & clean it.

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49 minutes ago, Jud - s/v Sputnik said:

Made me think of this, for some reason (question on fuel consumption for the USCG 200 tons ocean license exam).  (I never realized fuel consumption is related to the cube of speed...)

Sharpen your pencils :-)

 

Makes sense, at least for a displacement hull, since the speed displaces a volume of water per unit time and volume is a cubic quantity.

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9 minutes ago, IStream said:

Makes sense, at least for a displacement hull, since the speed displaces a volume of water per unit time and volume is a cubic quantity.

Still, it’s somehow “amazing” though - doubling speed leads to an eightfold increase in fuel consumption!

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4 hours ago, Jud - s/v Sputnik said:

I always thought diesel bugs were a warm-climate thing.  I run my boat in a similar climate to yours, above 49*N latitude, have motored (mostly - little wind near-shore coastal sailing around here) to Alaska and back, and over the years, too, have never had any issues with filters clogging.  

But maybe because our fuel tank is in the keel, so fuel is typically quite cool - whereas tanks located in warmer ambient temps (I.e., not below water line, or in warmer, lower latitudes) are more prone to diesel bugs?  I’m curious - have read about them, never had an issue.  Anyone know?

 

The main cause is a boat that sits for a time unused.

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39 minutes ago, savoir said:

 

The main cause is a boat that sits for a time unused.

the whale sat for five to seven years

I siphoned most of the fuel out - put it back

the engine ran for haalf a tank and then stopped

I changed the filters twice and

it is all running again

 

so far

I will keep the outboard on the back until I am confident that it is clear

D

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7 hours ago, dylan winter said:

the whale sat for five to seven years

I siphoned most of the fuel out - put it back

the engine ran for haalf a tank and then stopped

I changed the filters twice and

it is all running again

 

so far

I will keep the outboard on the back until I am confident that it is clear

D

I know filters aren't free, but being ready & able to change the filter is the best thing. At least you can sail while changing the filter.

 

P1110303op1.JPG

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

My wife and I cruised in a trawler with a twin filter mount that was relatively easy access, also plenty of storage aboard for new filter elements. I bought a case of 28 (IIRC) of them and still had a few left after 6 or 7 years of cruising ~half time. Although i showed him the system and how change filters, the new owner was convinced that if he put the right miracle chemicals in the fuel, he would not need them. I'm not sure why people think that chemicals are better for engines than fuel, changing a filter seems very easy to me.

There probably is a mass of sludge/goop on the bottom and in the corners of the tank. The stuff can be persistant. If your tank has proper access holes, opening them and actually reaching in there to clean it is the best remedy, but even if you get ALL the old glop out then you will still need the filter(s).

Get a couple of new filter elements, take a couple of hefty friends out for a boat ride. Run it up to 80% or a bit more, and get your friends to rock the hell out of the boat as you ride along. Slosh the fuel about in the tank as much as you can. Then let everything calm down, and take a look at the filter.

When we first bought the trawler, it had been let sit for a few years and I changed filter element 3 times, the first days running. Once for the next couple of days, after a week most of the glop was gone. Then we had a fuel leak in the line that sucked in air, but that's a different story/problem.

FB- Doug

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Diesel..... mentioned up page/ back a bit about running the excess fuel through a header tank for the heater, note I said through and not just to the header tank, anytime the engine is on the header tank is topped up with well filtered fuel, did find the header tank needed to be vented to make this work, oh and keep in mind that the biocide will kill the bug in the main diesel tank it just wont dissolve it so it'll come back to haunt you as a sludge if it aint removed

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At work this week, I discovered a black sludge coating on the inside of the keel diesel tank of a 45 year old, fiberglass boat.  Sludge is present everywhere except the top 1/4 of the tank.  Tank is fibreglass (part of hull).

Tank has 5 "sections" divided by internal bulkheads/baffles but had only one inspection hatch.  All sections had the same amount of sludge, indicating that this tank has never been cleaned.

Due to the presence of permanent "sole beams", galley cabinetry, and the baffles, locating the necessary hatches was tricky.   

Steve

d9udBQ3.jpg

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9 minutes ago, Panope said:

At work this week, I discovered a black sludge coating on the inside of the keel diesel tank of a 45 year old, fiberglass boat.  Sludge is present everywhere except the top 1/4 of the tank.  Tank is fibreglass (part of hull).

Tank has 5 "sections" divided by internal bulkheads/baffles but had only one inspection hatch.  All sections had the same amount of sludge, indicating that this tank has never been cleaned.

Due to the presence of permanent "sole beams", galley cabinetry, and the baffles, locating the necessary hatches was tricky.   

Steve

d9udBQ3.jpg

Fek

D

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Well as long as the sludge stays attached to the sides of the tank and doesn't mess up the fuel and filters, who cares?

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51 minutes ago, alphafb552 said:

Well as long as the sludge stays attached to the sides of the tank and doesn't mess up the fuel and filters, who cares?

Fine in theory. In practice, the only way to fid out how well the sludge is attached is to go out or get caught in rough seas and if you need the motor then, you're screwed.

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