IStream

Dylan's New Boat Anarchy

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12 hours ago, Ajax said:

I had to Google jubilee clips. 

I didn’t because I thought it meant something naughty. 

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A 7mm nut spinner is what you need for jubilee clips.  Saves much bad language and skinned knuckles.  Bendy ones good for confined spaces.

shopping?q=tbn:ANd9GcQtEtquu5ikKwD5nclDx

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11 hours ago, Fah Kiew Tu said:

I had a 600mm wood thickness planer, really old but solid square cutter head model. Got rid of it before it killed me.

Good decision, there were so many accidents with those that in France selling them second hand can get you to court, from a judge perspective, it is nearly as bad as selling guns illegally. I think that it is the only instance here of such an extreme prohibition (at least for woodworking machinery), otherwise it is perfectly legal to sell a machine that doesn't comply with safety regulations, you just can't ask an employee to use it.

11 hours ago, Fah Kiew Tu said:

The small Chinese lathes are rubbish unless your expectations are really, really low. Don't waste your money. There are a lot of European manufacturers of really fine machinery to buy from. More money sure but way better quality.

The metal lathes I learnt on were so worn out that on one of them there was 1mm backlash on the "mother screw" (I don't know the technical word in English, it is the one that makes the tool go parallel to the lathe rotation axis) and despite this we were keeping tolerances within 0.1mm and even 0.05mm for the more talented. So I think that I would not mind the Chinese lathe as long as it is to make small parts obviously.

Yes there are good European manufacturers around, but they've mostly exited the small machines end of the market as they can't compete with the Chinese. Nowadays for many industry mostly means bolting together pieces imported from China so to get beyond re-badged machinery you need to buy serious stuff, I've heard that with the pandemic this is changing a bit, so may be we will get something positive out of this mess. In the French navy, they had onboard ships small lathe/mill combined machines which are perfect for hobbyist, sadly it is now really hard to find one. I've even found a page in English about them : http://www.lathes.co.uk/siome/page2.html   Probably as French as a 2CV...

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5 minutes ago, Panoramix said:

Yes there are good European manufacturers around, but they've mostly exited the small machines end of the market as they can't compete with the Chinese. Nowadays for many industry mostly means bolting together pieces imported from China so to get beyond re-badged machinery you need to buy serious stuff, I've heard that with the pandemic this is changing a bit, so may be we will get something positive out of this mess. In the French navy, they had onboard ships small lathe/mill combined machines which are perfect for hobbyist, sadly it is now really hard to find one. I've even found a page in English about them : http://www.lathes.co.uk/siome/page2.html   Probably as French as a 2CV...

Interesting looking machine, thanks for posting that reference. I've never seen one of those.

Weiler are a well regarded manufacturer, as is Schaublin and Emco for the hobbyist/light toolroom segment.

There are a couple of oddball French manufacture milling machines that are *very* highly regarded.

FKT

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12 hours ago, SloopJonB said:
17 hours ago, IStream said:

It's like those French Brits have a different word for everything.

They have the English words - as in The English Language.

Colonials have a patois.

I don't any more, I traded it for a travois

- DSK

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12 hours ago, Whinging Pom said:

A 7mm nut spinner is what you need for jubilee clips.  Saves much bad language and skinned knuckles.  Bendy ones good for confined spaces.

shopping?q=tbn:ANd9GcQtEtquu5ikKwD5nclDx

Can't get enough torque for a proper clamp on something like Green Stripe sanitation hose with one of those. I have to use racheting box wrenches and resort to swearing.

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The whale has been on the Deben mooring for three weeks

Between fettling I do get to sail around a bit

 

So this is a modest slice of Suffolk sailing in october

I spent a winter as a roofer in Albert

Suffolk is nicer

 

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40 minutes ago, dylan winter said:

The whale has been on the Deben mooring for three weeks

Between fettling I do get to sail around a bit

 

So this is a modest slice of Suffolk sailing in october

I spent a winter as a roofer in Albert

Suffolk is nicer

 

:D

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2 minutes ago, dylan winter said:

I meant alberta

It as fekkin parkie

D

 

 

Roofing on the Canadian prairies in winter is not for the faint of heart or the easily frostbitten.

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On 11/6/2020 at 7:36 AM, Steam Flyer said:

I don't any more, I traded it for a travois

- DSK

A good fettler should have a pair of dikes (dykes) in his pocket when his jubilee clamp strips. 

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17 hours ago, dylan winter said:

The whale has been on the Deben mooring for three weeks

Between fettling I do get to sail around a bit

 

So this is a modest slice of Suffolk sailing in october

I spent a winter as a roofer in Albert

Suffolk is nicer

 

 

Dylan your videos are better than blood pressure medication. I highly recommend them to people struggling with anger or depression issues.

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On 11/9/2020 at 12:25 PM, Ishmael said:
On 11/9/2020 at 12:21 PM, dylan winter said:

I meant alberta

It as fekkin parkie

Roofing on the Canadian prairies in winter is not for the faint of heart or the easily frostbitten.

I didn't know it was even legal.

HTF do you even stay on a roof during a prairie winter?

Crampons?

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2 minutes ago, SloopJonB said:

I didn't know it was even legal.

HTF do you even stay on a roof during a prairie winter?

Crampons?

we had lots of days off the roof when the weather was shit

mostly gyprocking dry lining/plasterboarding  the interiors

 

we did one job in saskatchewan

it was several hours from Oktokoks which was our base

 

so we weekly commuted and were dossing down in the ten houses we were working on

I spent three weeks sleeping on several rolls of insulation in a garage

shittest living conditions I have experienced

 

bloody good money though

 

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On 11/10/2020 at 8:39 AM, dylan winter said:

The whale has been on the Deben mooring for three weeks

Between fettling I do get to sail around a bit

 

So this is a modest slice of Suffolk sailing in october

I spent a winter as a roofer in Albert

Suffolk is nicer

 

there is nothing.... absolutely nothing half so much worth as simply messing about in boats

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8 hours ago, dylan winter said:

I spent three weeks sleeping on several rolls of insulation in a garage

:o

That couple fixing the big Bennie should do that as practice for their future living conditions.

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I am after some advice from you diesel boys

I bought a boat that had diesel bug -

I changed the primary filter on purchase .

The top of the filter had some black crystals on it . Locals said it was normal for Grimsby.

I then overdosed the tank with Marine 16

https://www.marine16.co.uk/fuel-treatments/dbt

 

After four days at sea being well shaken around by the north sea chop  the engine stopped working - I am going to guess it had been running for a total of 20 hours.

It died slowly with a steady drop in revs over the course of an hour. - it was between 6 and seven at nigght so it was just falling dark.

I finished the journey with the outboard and replaced the filter

it had a few gobbets of black sludge on the top - like black mustard.

The third filter has been on for about eight hours of motoring time - it started to clog - I can hear the symptoms

 

this is what it looked like

20201113-180446.jpg

 

The filter has now been replaced - and engine is running fine for six hours or more.

I can now change a filter without filling the bilges with oil. I buy a pack of kitchen roll and a a disposable lasagna tray. This is all done working two feet below knee level. It is a fekker to work on

 

However the union between the primary filter and the feed pipe for the engine lift pump started weeping.

I dismantled it today and clearly my attempts at fekkin with the filter has resulted in a first class thread crossing

20201113-100833.jpg

 

20201113-100341.jpg

 

20201113-100331.jpg

 

this is the other end by the pump

20201113-100553.jpg

 

I, and my poor bastard knees, would welcome advice for simply expediting the re-asssembly.

I have some black tube of the correct dimensions..... however, can I buy see through hose

 

D

 

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1 hour ago, dylan winter said:

I am after some advice from you diesel boys

I bought a boat that had diesel bug -

I changed the primary filter on purchase .

The top of the filter had some black crystals on it . Locals said it was normal for Grimsby.

I then overdosed the tank with Marine 16

https://www.marine16.co.uk/fuel-treatments/dbt

 

After four days at sea being well shaken around by the north sea chop  the engine stopped working - I am going to guess it had been running for a total of 20 hours.

It died slowly with a steady drop in revs over the course of an hour. - it was between 6 and seven at nigght so it was just falling dark.

I finished the journey with the outboard and replaced the filter

it had a few gobbets of black sludge on the top - like black mustard.

The third filter has been on for about eight hours of motoring time - it started to clog - I can hear the symptoms

 

this is what it looked like

20201113-180446.jpg

 

The filter has now been replaced - and engine is running fine for six hours or more.

I can now change a filter without filling the bilges with oil. I buy a pack of kitchen roll and a a disposable lasagna tray. This is all done working two feet below knee level. It is a fekker to work on

 

However the union between the primary filter and the feed pipe for the engine lift pump started weeping.

I dismantled it today and clearly my attempts at fekkin with the filter has resulted in a first class thread crossing

20201113-100833.jpg

 

20201113-100341.jpg

 

20201113-100331.jpg

 

this is the other end by the pump

20201113-100553.jpg

 

I, and my poor bastard knees, would welcome advice for simply expediting the re-asssembly.

I have some black tube of the correct dimensions..... however, can I buy see through hose

 

D

 

You need diesel-rated hose. See through hose isn't rated for anything except potable water. It might void your insurance and/or it might kill you.

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Dylan, FFS quit fucking around with this.

Clean your fucking tanks.

Get rid of that shitty filter and install a Racor.

Change the hose like Ish said.

Do it right, do it once.

If you don't simply face the facts and do this then you are going to be fucking around like you have been for the foreseeable  future.

 

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1 minute ago, SloopJonB said:

Dylan, FFS quit fucking around with this.

Clean your fucking tanks.

Get rid of that shitty filter and install a Racor.

Change the hose like Ish said.

Do it right, do it once.

If you don't simply face the facts and do this then you are going to be fucking around like you have been for the foreseeable  future.

 

why do you need to get so heated?

 

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5 minutes ago, dylan winter said:

why do you need to get so heated?

 

It's winter here.

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27 minutes ago, dylan winter said:

why do you need to get so heated?

Because you're too far away for me to smack you upside the head. ;)

You've been suffering from and complaining about fuel problems since you started this thread.

The problem and the solution been explained to you several times.

You seem to be unwilling to face reality and listen to the good advice you've been given and keep coming back like your hoping someone will have a magic solution for you.

Time to face reality.

I went through the exact same process with my current boat - everything between the filler neck to the little engine filter has been cleaned, renewed or replaced and everything works perfectly. It didn't even cost much.

You need to do the same or you are going to have continual problems and maybe even get yourself in a real jam when it happens at a bad time.

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I don't see a need for transparent fuel hose - you've got a see-through bowl on your filter.

I am try to figure out what you are showing in your pictures...I assume the fitting on the right with the bits of thread hanging off it is from the CAV primary filter? Was it cross-threaded such that it stripped the threads on the aluminium casting of the CAV filter? If so, you have a couple of options to repair the CAV casting: the threads can be repaired with a helicoil (at a machine shop) or it can possibly be drilled out and re-tapped to the next thread size up (by you, if you are so inclined, or at the machine shop).

Personally, I am not a fan of that type of filter, especially when installed in a low, inaccessible location. I far prefer the Parker Racor 500 series filters, which are top-loading - an added benefit given the location in your boat. You can even buy cheap Chinese knock-offs on ebay, although I can't vouch for the quality of those...

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On 11/10/2020 at 5:18 PM, SloopJonB said:

I didn't know it was even legal.

HTF do you even stay on a roof during a prairie winter?

Crampons?

Clarence can explain how you stay on a roof during a prairie winter...even after shoveling it

 

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5 minutes ago, Jim in Halifax said:

I don't see a need for transparent fuel hose - you've got a see-through bowl on your filter.

I am try to figure out what you are showing in your pictures...I assume the fitting on the right with the bits of thread hanging off it is from the CAV primary filter? Was it cross-threaded such that it stripped the threads on the aluminium casting of the CAV filter? If so, you have a couple of options to repair the CAV casting: the threads can be repaired with a helicoil (at a machine shop) or it can possibly be drilled out and re-tapped to the next thread size up (by you, if you are so inclined, or at the machine shop).

Personally, I am not a fan of that type of filter, especially when installed in a low, inaccessible location. I far prefer the Parker Racor 500 series filters, which are top-loading - an added benefit given the location in your boat. You can even buy cheap Chinese knock-offs on ebay, although I can't vouch for the quality of those...

the cav  is fine

 

it is the thread on the next one out - so that is the one that needs replacing

under normal circumstances I would get on my bike and take it to a partss place

- but we are in lockdown so I will have to try ebay

 

D

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8 minutes ago, dylan winter said:

the cav  is fine

 

it is the thread on the next one out - so that is the one that needs replacing

under normal circumstances I would get on my bike and take it to a partss place

- but we are in lockdown so I will have to try ebay

 

D

So its the fitting from the secondary filter on the Volvo Penta? If so, that's part of the engine's fuel system and you'll want to get that repaired properly by a mechanic or a machinist...I don't need to tell you that Volvo Penta parts aren't cheap - you probably don't want to buy a new one if that one can be fixed. It sucks about the lock down, but at least you have the outboard until the diesel is fixed.

 

PS: Terminology. The primary filter is the one closest to the fuel tank and usually has the 'coarsest' filtration (10 - 30 micron typically). The secondary filter is a finer filter (maybe 2 - 5 micron) that the fuel goes through just prior to the engine's fuel pump(s).

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1 minute ago, Jim in Halifax said:

So its the fitting from the secondary filter on the Volvo Penta? If so, that's part of the engine's fuel system and you'll want to get that repaired properly by a mechanic or a machinist...I don't need to tell you that Volvo Penta parts aren't cheap - you probably don't want to buy a new one if that one can be fixed. It sucks about the lock down, but at least you have the outboard until the diesel is fixed.

the buggered thread is one of three threads between the hose at the cav end and the cav filter istelf

so the one on the hose with the jubillee clips and thread on the cav are both fine

D

 

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2 minutes ago, dylan winter said:

the buggered thread is one of three threads between the hose at the cav end and the cav filter istelf

so the one on the hose with the jubillee clips and thread on the cav are both fine

D

 

Got it I think. so its a series of threaded adaptors from the CAV to the engine? That sould be a cheap fix. Try to get one adaptor to get you straight fro the CAV to the hose, if you can - less potential for leaks. Those fittings use copper crush washers - keep a supply of them on hand as they really should not be reused. A supplier of parts for diesel trucks or farm equipment should have what you need, if you can sneak out on the ebike...but don't let Boris catch you at it ;-)

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11 minutes ago, Jim in Halifax said:

Got it I think. so its a series of threaded adaptors from the CAV to the engine? That sould be a cheap fix. Try to get one adaptor to get you straight fro the CAV to the hose, if you can - less potential for leaks. Those fittings use copper crush washers - keep a supply of them on hand as they really should not be reused. A supplier of parts for diesel trucks or farm equipment should have what you need, if you can sneak out on the ebike...but don't let Boris catch you at it ;-)

thanks

you can see the copper washers in the image

I am gonna have to hawk my handful of brassy bits around

how do I describe them when looking on ebay?

D

 

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The ones on the fuel pump on the engine are called banjo fittings (sort of make you hungry doesn't it Dylan?). Not sure what you call a threaded fitting using a copper washer, but they will be specified by their thread sizes - so 9/16 UNF x 1/4" NPT for example. Yours may well be metric. Its hard to guess at the sizes when ordering online; best to take them to a place that sells hydraulic and fuel fittings. I understand the frustration of working on your boat under Covid...

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4 hours ago, dylan winter said:

- but we are in lockdown so I will have to try ebay

D

eBay can be a miracle.  I was looking for a circulation pump (I.e., fresh water pump) for my older Volvo Penta 2003.  Local Volvo shop wanted an extraordinary amount of money, close to $2000, if memory serves.  Ok, it’s an older engine, parts are certainly less common - but seriously?  Five minutes searching on eBay yielded a seller of a used one in excellent condition on the Isle of Wight.  $250 Canadian dollars all in, including shipping from the UK to west coast of Canada!  Maybe I was just lucky?!  :-)

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1 hour ago, Jud - s/v Sputnik said:

eBay can be a miracle.  I was looking for a circulation pump (I.e., fresh water pump) for my older Volvo Penta 2003.  Local Volvo shop wanted an extraordinary amount of money, close to $2000, if memory serves.  Ok, it’s an older engine, parts are certainly less common - but seriously?  Five minutes searching on eBay yielded a seller of a used one in excellent condition on the Isle of Wight.  $250 Canadian dollars all in, including shipping from the UK to west coast of Canada!  Maybe I was just lucky?!  :-)

When I built my own freshwater coolant system for my saltwater cooled engine I just went & bought a Davies-Craig electric water pump as used on a ton of cars out there. $120 AUD brand new IIRC. Works just fine - got 140 hours on it now.

FKT

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43 minutes ago, Fah Kiew Tu said:

When I built my own freshwater coolant system for my saltwater cooled engine I just went & bought a Davies-Craig electric water pump as used on a ton of cars out there. $120 AUD brand new IIRC. Works just fine - got 140 hours on it now.

FKT

Interesting.  How does it link with the engine?  Relative engine novice here.  So, my freshwater pump is belt driven off the alternator.  Clearly the pulleys have to line up properly for it to turn properly.  If I used a different pump, it clearly wouldn’t be able to be easily (at all?) mounted on the engine.  How did you do it?  Fabricate a custom bracket? 

EDIT: just saw that you wrote “electric” water pump.  Anyway, interesting bypass to a regular engine-driven pump - never knew that could be done!  Do you have to figure out the proper flow rate to match the right pump to your engine?

EDIT again: just googled it - simple how-to-install/how-it-works video here!  This is brilliant.  https://daviescraig.com.au/product/ewp80-kit-12v-80lpm21gpm-remote-electric-water-pump-8005/ewp80-electric-water-pump

So, essentially, any basic engine water pump can be replaced by one of these?  I never knew this.  Good to know, as the owner of an older engine with increasingly obsolete or very expensive parts. 

 

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I just recently replaced two of those filters - they are a stupid design for a boat (sorry FYT). way to fiddly to get the o-rings to stay in place when trying to re-assemble the whole stack of parts. Installed two Racor's instead - you can change filter & re-prime in a fraction of the time. 

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1 hour ago, Jud - s/v Sputnik said:

Interesting.  How does it link with the engine?  Relative engine novice here.  So, my freshwater pump is belt driven off the alternator.  Clearly the pulleys have to line up properly for it to turn properly.  If I used a different pump, it clearly wouldn’t be able to be easily (at all?) mounted on the engine.  How did you do it?  Fabricate a custom bracket? 

EDIT: just saw that you wrote “electric” water pump.  Anyway, interesting bypass to a regular engine-driven pump - never knew that could be done!  Do you have to figure out the proper flow rate to match the right pump to your engine?

EDIT again: just googled it - simple how-to-install/how-it-works video here!  This is brilliant.  https://daviescraig.com.au/product/ewp80-kit-12v-80lpm21gpm-remote-electric-water-pump-8005/ewp80-electric-water-pump

So, essentially, any basic engine water pump can be replaced by one of these?  I never knew this.  Good to know, as the owner of an older engine with increasingly obsolete or very expensive parts. 

 

They're essentially a constant flow pump so you can use them to replace the fresh water side of the coolant system without any dramas as long as the flow is equal to or greater than the original.

The salt water side, no, because you really don't want the flow until the engine is actually running and then not to a level that's greater than the exhaust gases can clear. I thought hard about that, just couldn't come up with anything I was going to trust. Could be done with some electronic trickery but too many possible failure modes for my comfort.

I just guesstimated the size basically. Engine thermostat is factory set to 70C as that's what the salt water cooled engine required. I never get over that even with a fair load on. One day I'll swap to an 85C thermostat for a bit better efficiency but until I get really bored - shrug. This works fine. Pretty sure I used the 40 litres/minute version.

FKT

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1 hour ago, longy said:

I just recently replaced two of those filters - they are a stupid design for a boat (sorry FYT). way to fiddly to get the o-rings to stay in place when trying to re-assemble the whole stack of parts. Installed two Racor's instead - you can change filter & re-prime in a fraction of the time. 

No need to apologise, I got mine for free and that's why I used them. The first time they cause me grief I'll recycle them for something better. The object was to get the boat out of the shed and in the water.

One has a very, very, very minor leak. Have to replace all the O rings I guess. That may be the death knell if that doesn't fix the problem.

Now I've endless time to upgrade stuff if I get bored.

FKT

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Adding something like Marine 16 to already dirty fuel can increase the amount off gunk in the tank, the killed microbes settle and form a reddish gel that a,so likes to block things up.

if you have access to the top of your fuel tank, and I suspect Fisher are a good enough builder to give you an inspection port, it’s easy enough to look inside. When I bought the current Valiant, she had a newish plastic tank but old fuel, I was able to suck most of the sediment out of the tank with a 1/2” aluminium pipe on a vacuumn engine oil extractor.

Dont get caught by “ fuel polishing”, it’s either dump the old fuel and clean the tank, or buy a lifetime supply of fuel filters..

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1 hour ago, Applescruffs said:

I have to agree with SloopJonB, (though not quite as forcefully ).... that to get this permanently sorted you will have to thoroughly clean all the crud from the bottom of your tank . sorry.

It’s probably going to be a royal pain in the arse but if you don’t then you will just carry on replacing filters ad Infinitum and get stressed every time you go out listening to the sound of the engine and just waiting for it to die on you and bite you on the bum ... I know...I’ve been there.....

(that’s getting diesel bug and not me biting Dylan on the bum, let’s put that to bed right here !)

Once your system is clean THEN use the Marine 16... it will break down any residual crud that’s still in the system into micro partials that will pass through the filters and get burnt up in the combustion process. There’s probably too much crubbage en-masse in the tank for it to deal with at the moment... so unless you want to keep spending money on filters and buggering up your knees get the tank out and give it a thorough clean.

Keep the diesel that you get out of the tank let it settle and use it for the heater ?

That’s not quite so mission critcal.

cheers 
 

R

 

BTW, love the new cooker.... have you still got eyebrows ?? 

 

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Fishers were originally fitted with 4mm thick steel (cast iron) diesel tanks. They often rust from the inside after their 40 odd years, giving off black crud can eventually cause leaks in the bottom of the tank - don't ask me how I know this, I try hard to repress the memory.

Many Fisher owners have replaced their tanks at some point. Unfortunately on a F25 that is a very tricky job necessitating either removing the engine, or creating a hatch in the cockpit sole. Just saying, Dylan, and this hopefully may not be your problem, but I would also drain the tank and check it out internally with an endoscope for example. 

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If you follow the KTL series, you know that the production is on a budget. Sailing on a budget (I know it well) means that expenditures outside the general maintenance have to be presented to the family 'board'. This can be tricky and often means trying to make do with what's inside the KTL budget before going to the board. 

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Engine now running

Weeping pipe fitting now fragrant

Man in pipe shop perturbed by fine blend of imperial and decimal in my sample

However he handed me six quids worth of  threads and nuts

So imperial pipe speaks to metric filter

I will replace everything between the tank tap and the lift pump and install a top loading filter

However that will mean disturbing the cutlass pump and the taylor header pump

In the meantime the engine is running again.  The engine starts telling me a good hour before it stops so I think the  marine 16 is doing its stuff

 

I can confirm that it is a replacement stainless steel tank

The top is 3 inches below the cockpit sole so swooshing or scrubbing  can  only be done by removing it

And that would mean removing the engine

So I will put that plan on the back  burner in the hope that north sea agitation, marine 16 and easier filter changes will make it go away

Meanwhile the trusty tohatsu sits on the transom

Ready for action inside of 1 minute

Better to travel in  hope than not to travel at all

 

D

 

 

 

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Might I suggest you put a small watertight inspection port in the cockpit sole immediately above the tank's inspection port?

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1 minute ago, IStream said:

Might I suggest you put a small watertight inspection port in the cockpit sole immediately above the tank's inspection port?

Beat me to it. But that may well be 'excessive fettling' for Dylan; it sounds like like he plans to agitate, filter, and burn the dross out...

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14 minutes ago, Jim in Halifax said:
19 minutes ago, IStream said:

Might I suggest you put a small watertight inspection port in the cockpit sole immediately above the tank's inspection port?

Beat me to it. But that may well be 'excessive fettling' for Dylan; it sounds like like he plans to agitate, filter, and burn the dross out...

I don't know how big the tank is, but I'd suggest finding the lowest connection point and draining it, there may in fact be a tank drain connection or a sight glass tap. Obviously needs to be done with the best drip-catching arrangement you can rig up. I've used tinfoil for this, in hard-to-reach places.

Rebuilding the fuel system need not be expensive. But it's the only way to get reliable fuel delivery. The filter itself is relatively pricey but Ebay can help. And spare filter elements in stock.

IMHO a boat like this relying on an outboard because of an easily fixable dodgy diesel fuel system is crazy. A decent diesel is far far more reliable, and will provide better power in rough conditions, than an outboard.

- DSK

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1 hour ago, IStream said:

Might I suggest you put a small watertight inspection port in the cockpit sole immediately above the tank's inspection port?

I had one on my mirror offshore

It is a tough place for a hatch to live

it was fine until a fat bastard landed on it

Then I was in for another 50 quid

The marine 15 might yet work in combination with the north Sea chop and a half full tank

I will let you know

D

 

 

 

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Amazing layout on a 25' boat. With heat, dry shelter, standing headroom and a winter to burn, do you plan to do any rough editing, dubbing or other work wile onboard the Whale?

Seems you have some good small workspaces to spread out a little for video work.

Sometimes it's inspirational to work in the setting you film, photograph, write in. Plus it would be interesting to see this addition in your finished products. 

4ea0fcc01289bf6bbb729bcf548224f9.jpg

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3 hours ago, Kris Cringle said:

Amazing layout on a 25' boat. With heat, dry shelter, standing headroom and a winter to burn, do you plan to do any rough editing, dubbing or other work wile onboard the Whale?

Seems you have some good small workspaces to spread out a little for video work.

Sometimes it's inspirational to work in the setting you film, photograph, write in. Plus it would be interesting to see this addition in your finished products. 

4ea0fcc01289bf6bbb729bcf548224f9.jpg

Maurice Griffiths was an east coast sailing journalist - he did most of his work up creeks and in anchorages.  A typre-writer and tippex then of course.

I have been experimenting with gear. During the early days of lockdown I shot 12 daily films and edited them on the phone.  I have been experimenting with formats in this thread. Youtube stats  tells me when people quit watching a film. 

Posting films shot three years ago is an old art.

My plan is to do a lot of work on the boat - the digits for uploading are as cheap as chips now. 

 

I did try filming on a phone which was terrible and then an 8 inch tablet which was also horrible. I have ended up filming on the proper camera, and then wifi ing the images to the tablet and editing them on there - now that a tablet is the most common way of watching youtube films.

so I plan on putting the clock back a bit and writing a regular blog while I am away from home on the boat and use some of that days film to show what sailing conditions are like.

I made this on the £100 tablet at the kitchen table and uploaded it straight from the device

it is the fisher 25 on the deben with a good stiff breeze and a strong tide

 

D

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, dylan winter said:

it is the fisher 25 on the deben with a good stiff breeze and a strong tide

Dylan, I enjoy all your videos. What did you do after that video going down hill. Park up for the night along the bank, or power back up wind to your berth?

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I have not slept on board since I brought her home - the berth cushions are being worked on by herself

so it would have been back to the mooring under engine.

 

the estuary is often a lot quieter

between bouts of attempted self immolation I have had some wonderful sails this November.  I have always sailed in these turbid east coast waters where you can seldom see more than foot below surface. They can look a bit grey at times - however, the super sifted silt that settles on the surface during highs carries lots of nutrients for the crustacia that live in the mud

which is why there are so many birds here. 

the birds.....

that attract the shooters

 

 

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On 11/14/2020 at 11:45 PM, dylan winter said:

Engine now running

Weeping pipe fitting now fragrant

Man in pipe shop perturbed by fine blend of imperial and decimal in my sample

However he handed me six quids worth of  threads and nuts

So imperial pipe speaks to metric filter

I will replace everything between the tank tap and the lift pump and install a top loading filter

However that will mean disturbing the cutlass pump and the taylor header pump

In the meantime the engine is running again.  The engine starts telling me a good hour before it stops so I think the  marine 16 is doing its stuff

 

I can confirm that it is a replacement stainless steel tank

The top is 3 inches below the cockpit sole so swooshing or scrubbing  can  only be done by removing it

And that would mean removing the engine

So I will put that plan on the back  burner in the hope that north sea agitation, marine 16 and easier filter changes will make it go away

Meanwhile the trusty tohatsu sits on the transom

Ready for action inside of 1 minute

Better to travel in  hope than not to travel at all

 

D

 

 

 

An interesting aside, your engine pumps a lot more fuel through the filters than it burns, the rest goes back to the tank through the fuel return line, so you are cleaning the fuel as you go along.

With our Yanmar 4 cylinder motor, around 90% of the fuel pumped from the tank is returned, the engine uses it to cool the injectors.

Not sure about your Perkins, but the volume will be significant.

Good news about the replacement tank, there is a good chance the walls are not too gummed up with gunk. If it was in my boat I would wait till the tank was lowish, then find some access hole so I could get a pipe near the bottom and and pump the tank dry, then flush it out with a bit of clean fuel and refill it.

You may get most of the gunk and residual water out this way.

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1 hour ago, olaf hart said:

An interesting aside, your engine pumps a lot more fuel through the filters than it burns, the rest goes back to the tank through the fuel return line, so you are cleaning the fuel as you go along.

With our Yanmar 4 cylinder motor, around 90% of the fuel pumped from the tank is returned, the engine uses it to cool the injectors.

Not sure about your Perkins, but the volume will be significant.

Good news about the replacement tank, there is a good chance the walls are not too gummed up with gunk. If it was in my boat I would wait till the tank was lowish, then find some access hole so I could get a pipe near the bottom and and pump the tank dry, then flush it out with a bit of clean fuel and refill it.

You may get most of the gunk and residual water out this way.

I did look up fuel polishing and realised that it is a pump and a filter

And, as you say, that is what is happening in my engine with the return.

I have ordered a replacement for the on engine filter

Another chance to spill diesel

D

 

 

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8 minutes ago, dylan winter said:

I did look up fuel polishing and realised that it is a pump and a filter

And, as you say, that is what is happening in my engine with the return.

I have ordered a replacement for the on engine filter

Another chance opportunity to spill diesel

D

 

 

FIFY

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20 hours ago, dylan winter said:

I did look up fuel polishing and realised that it is a pump and a filter

And, as you say, that is what is happening in my engine with the return.

I have ordered a replacement for the on engine filter

Another chance to spill diesel

D

 

 

In theory, fuel "polishing" is a high volume system that will set up a scouring current within the tank. Recirc from the injectors will not do this, but it will run the fuel thru your system and return cleaner/brighter, fuel to your tank.

If you put on a good primary filter and a fine element (I used 2 micron) then you will never have to change the on-engine/secondary filter but once.

FB- Doug

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On 11/16/2020 at 8:18 AM, dylan winter said:

I did look up fuel polishing and realised that it is a pump and a filter

And, as you say, that is what is happening in my engine with the return.

I have ordered a replacement for the on engine filter

Another chance to spill diesel

D

 

 

 

Time to stop being a cheapskate and fork out a few quid for a fuel polish.  I have done it and it works.  The process is nothing like your fuel pump so don't be fooled there.  All you need is a dock with electricity and 30 minutes spare time.  This is a one off job that you will never have to do again.

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   I was inspired by this thread to finally clean the residue from the keel tank while on the hard for a week. The fuel was always a little cloudy from this tank and needed better filtering than the other two.   A good friend is in the tank as I didn't fit.  He volunteered ! 

 

019.thumb.jpg.6f4398406643f16b88c6df1d5aea68c0.jpg
 

Took a lot more crud than this out with a wet vac after pumping the fuel out into drums.  It didn't look too bad with an inspection camera when the fuel was in there.

1462381774_crudfromtank.thumb.jpg.b2a8660b6a44410d8cee4c76752c9b4d.jpg

 

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2 hours ago, MikeJohns said:

   I was inspired by this thread to finally clean the residue from the keel tank while on the hard for a week. The fuel was always a little cloudy from this tank and needed better filtering than the other two.   A good friend is in the tank as I didn't fit.  He volunteered ! 

 

019.thumb.jpg.6f4398406643f16b88c6df1d5aea68c0.jpg
 

Took a lot more crud than this out with a wet vac after pumping the fuel out into drums.  It didn't look too bad with an inspection camera when the fuel was in there.

1462381774_crudfromtank.thumb.jpg.b2a8660b6a44410d8cee4c76752c9b4d.jpg

 

Ah, sweet memories... not... of bucketing that cow-shit-like substance out of fuel bottoms...

That looks like a bad spot to get into/out of. That guy is a very good friend indeed. And that brown stuff does not look like it would be good for your engine. Injector pumps are such fussy things!

FB- Doug

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4 hours ago, MikeJohns said:

   I was inspired by this thread to finally clean the residue from the keel tank while on the hard for a week. The fuel was always a little cloudy from this tank and needed better filtering than the other two.   A good friend is in the tank as I didn't fit.  He volunteered ! 

 

019.thumb.jpg.6f4398406643f16b88c6df1d5aea68c0.jpg
 

Took a lot more crud than this out with a wet vac after pumping the fuel out into drums.  It didn't look too bad with an inspection camera when the fuel was in there.

1462381774_crudfromtank.thumb.jpg.b2a8660b6a44410d8cee4c76752c9b4d.jpg

 

Well sir!  You have a slightly 'above standard' size craft!  I salute both the designer and builder for providing such adequate access to the tank!  

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17 minutes ago, Veeger said:

Well sir!  You have a slightly 'above standard' size craft!  I salute both the designer and builder for providing such adequate access to the tank!  

+1

The size is impressive.

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As I'm sure you're aware, you owe that man beer for life.

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On 11/14/2020 at 9:37 AM, dylan winter said:

the cav  is fine

 

it is the thread on the next one out - so that is the one that needs replacing

under normal circumstances I would get on my bike and take it to a partss place

- but we are in lockdown so I will have to try ebay

having butted my head against the wall for 20yrs as a marine refrigeration engineer and fitting out my own boat...2QM20 yanmar.... i popped a refrigeration sight glass into the line up by the engine filter to have a looksee at things, tells me the color of the fuel, tells me about flow with regards to any air in system and really helps a lot when bleeding system (I have a switchable as in turn on and turn off electric 12V pump down by the tank)and just leave it going till the sight glass is clear of bubbles, they come in 1/4", 3/8" and 1/2" flare fitting  just ignore the litmus indicator........ means you can see inside the fuel line, not a lot but enough to help and check at times

D

 

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5 hours ago, Panoramix said:
5 hours ago, Veeger said:

Well sir!  You have a slightly 'above standard' size craft!  I salute both the designer and builder for providing such adequate access to the tank!  

+1

The size is impressive.

Most people are satisfied with enough access to get an arm in.

I've never seen a tank with a door. :D

Just curious but how big is that tank?

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11 hours ago, MikeJohns said:

   I was inspired by this thread to finally clean the residue from the keel tank while on the hard for a week. The fuel was always a little cloudy from this tank and needed better filtering than the other two.   A good friend is in the tank as I didn't fit.  He volunteered !

The fumes had already gone to his head. There was no way I was volunteering.

FKT

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5 hours ago, SloopJonB said:

Most people are satisfied with enough access to get an arm in.

I've never seen a tank with a door. :D

Just curious but how big is that tank?

300 Gallons in US  speak. There's two more similar sized tanks P&S , they are in perfect shape and have a proper low point draw off.

 Range under power average of 7 Knots is 1400NM in a seaway. The fuel gives a lot of options if shit happens.

At 64' on deck and 40 tons It's just a much bigger version of DW's Fisher really !

 

354s.JPG

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4 hours ago, Fah Kiew Tu said:

The fumes had already gone to his head. There was no way I was volunteering.

FKT

He's smaller than you !  And apparently an experienced caver. ...........

 

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6 minutes ago, MikeJohns said:

He's smaller than you !  And apparently an experienced caver. ...........

 

That's going to help a lot in a diesel tank. Did he have crampons? Some belays halfway up?

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59 minutes ago, Ishmael said:

That's going to help a lot in a diesel tank. Did he have crampons? Some belays halfway up?

Helps a lot:  No panic if stuck, use brain free self.......

 

 

 

 

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3 hours ago, Ishmael said:

That's going to help a lot in a diesel tank. Did he have crampons? Some belays halfway up?

It is good - depending. One of my staff was 5'6" and a caver. Guess who got all the jobs crawling through the bilges of the icebreaker while we passed in tools...

FKT

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Dylan I had fuel issues with JoJo from the time I bought her. Went through pumping it out, trying to clean the tank, ditching the old stuff and putting in new. It worked, for a while, till it quit  in the tide race off Skomer the winter I was moving her to Essex from Cumbria.  I decided to get the tank properly cleaned where she was stuck in Milford Haven, they removed the fuel, steam cleaned the tank, put the fuel back in and it promptly pissed out everywhere. The tank was the original mild steel put in by westerly in 1974 and was rusted to buggery, it was only the crud at the bottom of the tank that had been keeping the fuel in it! Same issue as you, no inspection hatch and no direct access into it. In the end, I had to have the engine removed, the cockpit floor cut open, the tank was cut in two for removal, a new (much larger, 120l)plastic one installed,with inspection hatch, and then they put the engine back in & reinstated and reinforced the cockpit sole. It cost me £1500, which hurt a lot, but I had no issues at all with it for the rest of the trip, round lands end etc, and in much rougher water.  I'm really pleased I did it, and even if you dont fancy it now, add it to your list, cos you might need to one day :)

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9 hours ago, steveyates said:

Dylan I had fuel issues with JoJo from the time I bought her. Went through pumping it out, trying to clean the tank, ditching the old stuff and putting in new. It worked, for a while, till it quit  in the tide race off Skomer the winter I was moving her to Essex from Cumbria.  I decided to get the tank properly cleaned where she was stuck in Milford Haven, they removed the fuel, steam cleaned the tank, put the fuel back in and it promptly pissed out everywhere. The tank was the original mild steel put in by westerly in 1974 and was rusted to buggery, it was only the crud at the bottom of the tank that had been keeping the fuel in it! Same issue as you, no inspection hatch and no direct access into it. In the end, I had to have the engine removed, the cockpit floor cut open, the tank was cut in two for removal, a new (much larger, 120l)plastic one installed,with inspection hatch, and then they put the engine back in & reinstated and reinforced the cockpit sole. It cost me £1500, which hurt a lot, but I had no issues at all with it for the rest of the trip, round lands end etc, and in much rougher water.  I'm really pleased I did it, and even if you dont fancy it now, add it to your list, cos you might need to one day :)

that is a sad post

however, I will maintain my optimism.

The fisher has a replacement stainless steel tank - and no signs of leaks so that is in my favour.

No accessible inspection hatch  of course.

I have the coming  winter to give the marine 16 a chance to work.

I have not had to change a fuel  filter for about two weeks now - call it 20 hours of motoring  -  the first one blocked at ten hours of running.

Two points is not a trend but I am going to call it that.

.  I took snaps of the previous filters and while the first had a dollops of black sludge like wet  cat shit across the top of the filter the latter ones were blocked by a much finer greyness spread through the filter - so the marine 16 appears to be doing something. It is supposed to break up the sludge so that it can be burned in the engine

As another positive signs

I also got some bug in the taylor stove  which blocked the burner. - that is easy to clear removing just one nut under the burner  and shoving a tiny screwdriver up through the burner.

the taylor has a small one gallon header tank - I am now on my thord tankful of fuel - which is fed from the main tank.

the taylor heater has a small water trap but no filter  - that was half full of black crud but now that it is getting a feed mixed with marine 16 the diesel came in a bit cloudy and then settled out into a small layer in the bottom of the water trap.  I have cleaned that out twice and it gets less each time.   It now appears to be running clear.

D

 

There is now no sign of fresh crud  it in the bottom of the moisture trap on the main filter.

I have a winter to try to work through this - so the 6hp stays on the back of the boat until I am confident that it has cleared. or I  am in for an engine removal/hatch cutting ceremony. The 6hp shoves her through the water at 4.5 knots  so I have a plan B that is good enough to get me out of  trouble and back home.

 

I am quite a competent mechanic and trained as an ag engineer.  Did all the maintenance on the cars, movers, chainsaws and outboards.

 

When fixing ag stuff every job started with a power washer, most of the work was so easy to get at and at a convenient height. Also had a pit to work in if needed.  

the centaur engine was out under the cockpit and not in the cabin - accessing the shallow bilge was easy so cleaning uo afterwards was a piece of cake.

 

Now that I share cabin space with an engine and every drop of oil or diesel dropped gets into the bilges and then it takes ages to get rid of the oily  wiff. 

I am filming some of this so if I win through with the diesel 16  then I will make short film about it and send them a hand written thank you letter.

 

D

 

 

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this is the third filter - good progress I would say

 

the first one had black cat shit all over the top and was blocking the holes.

 

this one is just murky all the way through

20201113-180452.jpg

 

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Ahhh, a  replacement stainless steel tank makes a world of difference I'd say, so thats pretty positive. You should be able to sort it over time then. Shame you can't access the tank and scoop gloop out though.

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Dylan,

If you haven't already, I'd suggest investing is a pile of white oil absorbing sheets. Get the big ones. Every time you work on the engine and any oil or fuel spills, it'll absorb it. Don't wait until it's heavily stained or saturated, if the smell is the issue just throw it in the bin and replace with fresh. 

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50 minutes ago, IStream said:

Dylan,

If you haven't already, I'd suggest investing is a pile of white oil absorbing sheets. Get the big ones. Every time you work on the engine and any oil or fuel spills, it'll absorb it. Don't wait until it's heavily stained or saturated, if the smell is the issue just throw it in the bin and replace with fresh. 

Mr newly anal of the deben is learning to use disposable lasagne dishes which can be molded to the curve  of the hull along with good quality paper towels

It is like looking after an incontinent granny

D

 

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Maybe granny can pass you a box of fresh pull-ups next time you visit the home. They also mold to the hull curve. 

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That access is relatively good in my world.

I would try to make that middle beam removable, maybe some metal mounts both ends and cross pins.

Warming the engine does not heat the oil much, I always change oil just after a good run, and use exactly the same vacuum pump, it drains quickly.

That VP 2030 sounds sweet, you have done well...

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I know everyone's a critic, but...You might want to wipe the crud off the siphon tube next time before you stick it in the engine.

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I agre

36 minutes ago, IStream said:

I know everyone's a critic, but...You might want to wipe the crud off the siphon tube next time before you stick it in the engine.

I agree

 

Did not see it until i edited the film

 

I am a fearless old hack and decided to publish and be damned

 

d

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